₦airaland Forum

Ubenedictus:
U think those without faith cannot do any good thing?

HashtagMoniker:
OP I think disagree with you on this, the title is misleading. In my understanding, what you posted as his actual speech does not seem to be as an extension of the title, it's more like that Bible passage that says "forsake not the fellowship of the brethren".

OLAADEGBU:
Stop twisting what your pope said.

HashtagMoniker:
OP I think disagree with you on this, the title is misleading. In my understanding, what you posted as his actual speech does not seem to be as an extension of the title, it's more like that Bible passage that says "forsake not the fellowship of the brethren".

OLAADEGBU:
Whatever good they do will not be good enough to make heaven.

Ubenedictus:
you are correct but ola doesn't Care about the truth, sofar he can bash the pope.


personally I agree with the pope, the temptation to a do-it-alone Christianity is both dangerous and harmful

Ubenedictus:
no body good work merits heaven, heaven is all about God's Grace and mercy, but even so I will encourage those who don't yet believe to do good act 10:4 come to mind

OLAADEGBU:
So you agree that there must be a middle man like your priests and pope for you to get in touch with God.

9inches:
I understand where you are coming from, but the Holy Spirit does not sow confusion. And no, Christ did not give permission to forge one's own subjective interpretation. That's the reason he made his apostles (the early Church) the custodian of his Word and additionally promised them his Holy Spirit to guide them in the light of truth. The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth. Truth is not guaranteed outside the Church (1 Tim 3:15). That's all I'm saying.

9inches:
It was the sin of disobedience and PRIDE that separated Martin Luther from the Body of Christ, the Church.

Exactly! And Martin Luther is the reason there are now over 33,000 different denominations interpreting the bible differently whilst claiming the Holy Spirit (which we all agree does not sow confusion). The Body of Christ (the Church) is undivided. The Body of Christ is one, not 2, not 5, not 20 and definitely not 33,000.

Exactly! That's why Catholics don't leave the "average Joe Public" to interpret what "average Joe Public" thinks or feels the interpretation should mean.... The Church is authoritative custodian of the Word of God (including the bible), so you can be rest assured it remains uncorrupted until the end of time. You can't get such guarantee outside the Church.

9inches:
Actually, you are not allowed to forge your own subjective interpretation of Christianity (or the bible) in the Catholic church. The bible is not confusing to the Church; the Church compiled the bible and was the ONLY body instituted by Christ through which unadulterated Christianity can be taught and learned.

So, yes! We already have our milk bottled for hundreds of centuries; and it comes with original seal of authenticity. Why selfishly replicate and risk corruption?

9inches:
I agree with you. I think the fundamentalists are to blame for this perception of Christianity and the bible as bigoted.

9inches:
We both agree on the bible is a fail-safe guarantee, except you haven't realized the bible came from "the Church". By virtue of me being part of "the Church", I have the privilege of a more holistic knowledge of the Word of God than the bible itself alone can offer you. This implies you are more at risk of misinterpreting the Word of God because you don't have any backup information.

I'm assuming you know that Timothy (ordained bishop of Ephesus by Paul) and Titus (ordained bishop of Crete by Paul) were two of Apostle Paul's companions and disciples (assistants). But have you heard about Irenaeus (bishop of Lyons) who was a student of Polycarp? And Polycarp (ordained bishop of Smyrna by Apostle John)? Have you heard anything they taught or wrote? Do you know any of the early Christians apart from the apostles, and what they believed, taught or wrote? Have you studied the church (Christian) history from the time of Christ as recorded in the bible to present day? Or did you just pick the bible without giving a good thought where it came from and how it came to you? These are the questions you should answer to yourself IF YOU ARE A TRUTH SEEKER. You are an adult, don't be afraid to challenge your beliefs with these vital questions. You have nothing to lose by researching them, but everything to gain in terms of knowledge. If you seek the Truth, you'll find it, right?

I live in the Church because I'm a part of it. The bible lives with me.

1. The Church is The Body of Christ - Rom 12:5; Col 1:24
2. Christ is the head of The Body (The Church) - Col 1:18
3. I'm an individual part of The Body (The Church) - 1 Cor 12:27; Rom 12:5
4. The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth!!! - 1 Tim 3:15

Reflection: Are you a part of the Church according to 1 Corinthians 12:27 or are you independent (outside) of the Church like Martin Luther

OLAADEGBU:
Good works in a man's life is a bye-product of God's grace and mercy that brings salvation. You cannot attain salvation with your good works.

Ubenedictus:
the Bible says, how will they believe except by a preacher... the Church is built up by Christ with facilitators to help in communication with God, not obstacles.

OLAADEGBU:
Do you your priests and popes preach the gospel?

Ubenedictus:
yes of course

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel
I preached to you, which you received, in which
you stand, and by which you are being saved, if
you hold fast to the word I preached to you —
unless you believed in vain
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also
received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with
the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on
the third day in accordance with the Scriptures.
-1 Corinthians 15:3-4


this is the gospel and it is taught and believed by every Catholic

below is the Catholic Creed as you will see it contains all those points

I believe in one God,




"I am the Lord thy God,
which have brought thee
out of the land of Egypt, out
of the house of bondage.
Thou shalt have no other
gods before me." -Exodus
20:2,3
"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the
commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one
Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with
all thy strength: this is the first commandment." -Mark
12:29-31




the Father Almighty,
"One God and Father of all, who is above all, and
through all, and in you all." -Ephesians 4:6
"Have we not all one father? Hath not one God
created us?" -Malachi 2:10
"And God said unto him, I am God Almighty:" -
Genesis 35:11



Maker of heaven and earth,
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the
earth." -Genesis 1:1
"Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, and he that
formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD, that
maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens
alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; -
Isaiah 44:24



and of all things seen and unseen.
"For by him were all things created, that are in
heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible,
whether they be thrones, or dominions, or
principalities, or powers: all things were created by
him and for him:" -Colossians 1:16
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the
world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that
are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they
are without excuse:" -Romans 1:20




A nd in one Lord Jesus Christ,
"Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all
comfort;" -2 Corinthians 1:3
"Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the
Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord
Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our
Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ." -I Thessalonians 1:1
"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not
provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." - Romans
13:14
the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father
before all ages;
" For God so loved the world that he gave his only
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him
should not perish but have everlasting life." -John
3:16
"And again, when he bringeth in the first-begotten
into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of
God worship him." -Hebrews 1:6
"Then they that were in the ship came and
worshiped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son
of God." -Matthew 14:33
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith
the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come,
the Almighty." -Revelation 1:8




God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God;
begotten, not made,
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was
with God, and the Word was God. The same was in
the beginning with God." -John 1:1
"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and
declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no
darkness at all." -I John 1:5
"Then spake Jesus again unto them saying, I am the light of
the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness,
but shall have the light of life." -John 8:12
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord
and my God." -John 20:28
" And we know that the Son of God is come, and has
given us understanding, that we may know him that
is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his
Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal
life." -I John 5:20
" I will tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to
me, "You are my son, today I have begotten you." -
Psalms 2:7
"For unto which of the angels said he at any time,
Thou art my Son, this day I have begotten thee?
And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be
to me a Son?" -Hebrews 1:5
"He who has seen me has seen the Father." -John 14:9
being of one substance with the Father;
"I and my Father are one." -John 10:30
"Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his
redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I
am the last; and beside me there is no God." -
Isaiah 44:6
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith
the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come,
the Almighty." -Revelation 1:8
"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not
robbery to be equal with God:" -Philippians 2:6
"But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the
works: that ye may know, and believe, that the
Father is in me, and I in him." -John
10:38
"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead
bodily." -Colossians 2:9



by whom all things were made.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was
with God, and the Word was God. The same was in
the beginning with God. All things were made by
him; and without him was not anything made that
was made. ...He was in the world, and the world
was made by him, and the world knew him not.
...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among
us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the
only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and
truth." -John 1:1-3,10,14
"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of
the mystery, which from the beginning of the world
hath been hid in God, who created all things by
Jesus Christ." -Ephesians 3:9
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all
things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom
are all things, and we by him." -I Corinthians 8:6
"Who is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of
every creature. For by him were all things created, that are
in heaven and that are in earth, visible and invisible,
whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or
powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he
is before all things, and by him all things
consist." -Colossians 1:15-17



W ho, for us all for our salvation, came down from
heaven,
"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain
salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ," -I Thessalonians 5:9
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none
other name under heaven given among men, whereby we
must be saved." -Acts 4:12
"And that from a child, thou hast known the holy scriptures,
which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through
faith, which is in Christ Jesus." -II Timothy 3:15
"I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any
man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread
that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of
the world." -John 6:51
"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own
will, but the will of him that sent me." -John 6:38




and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary,
and was made man;
"Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise:
When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph,
before they came together, she was found with child
of the Holy Ghost." -Matthew 1:18
"To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was
Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's
name was Mary. ...And the angel answered and
said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee,
and the power of the Highest shall overshadow
thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be
born of thee shall be called the Son of God." -Luke
1:27,35
"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not
robbery to be equal
with God: But made himself of no reputation,
and took upon him the form of a servant, and was
made in the likeness of men:" -Philippians
2:6,7
"Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which
was made of the
seed of David according to the flesh;" -
Romans 1:3


and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate;
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know
assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus,
whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." -
Acts 2:36
"And when they had bound him, they led him away, and
delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor. ...Then
released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged
Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified." -Matthew 27:2,26
"And so Pilate, willing to content the people,
released Barabbas unto them, and delivered Jesus,
when he had scourged him, to be crucified." -Mark
15:15



He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose
again, in accordance with the Scriptures;
" From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his
disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and
suffer many things of the elders and chief priests
and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the
third day." -Matthew 16:21
"And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and
wrapped him in the linen shroud, and laid him in a
sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock; and rolled
a stone unto the door of the sepulchre." -Mark 15:46
"And as they were afraid, and bowed down their
faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye
the living among the dead? He is not here, but is
risen: remember how he spake unto you when he
was yet in Galilee, Saying The Son of man must be
delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be
crucified, and the third day rise
again." -Luke 24:5-7
"For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also
received: how that Christ died for our sins according to the
Scriptures: And that he was buried, and that he rose again
the third day according to the Scriptures;" -I Corinthians
15:3-4


and ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of
the Father;
"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not
yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren,
and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and
your Father; and to my God, and your God." -John
20:17
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of
angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world,
received up into glory." -I Timothy 3:16
" ...by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into
heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and
authorities and powers being made subject unto him.” -I
Peter 3:21,22
"And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he
was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight."
-Acts 1:9
"So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he
was received up into heaven, and sat on the right
hand of God." -Mark 16:19
and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the living
and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.
"And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went
up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which
also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into
heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into
heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him
go into heaven." -Acts 1:10,11
"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him,
and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the
earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." -
Revelation 1:7
"For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed
all judgment unto the Son:" -John 5:22
"And he commanded us to preach unto the people,
and to testify that it is he which was ordained of
God to be judge of quick and dead." -Acts
10:42
"And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of
his kingdom there shall be no end." -Luke 1:33


And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of
Life;
"Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot
receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth
him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and
shall be in you." -John 14:17
"Now the Lord is that Spirit, and where the Spirit of
the Lord is, there is liberty." -II Corinthians 3:17
"Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has
so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy
Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money
you received for the land? Didn't it belong to you
before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't
the money at your disposal? What made you think
of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but
to God." -Acts 5:3,4
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a
man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into
the kingdom of God." -John 3:5
"Not by works of righteousness which we have
done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by
the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the
Holy Ghost;" -Titus 3:5


who proceeds from the Father; who with the Father and
the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke
by the prophets.
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send
unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth,
which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify
of me:" -John 15:26
"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts
unto your children: how much more shall your
heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that
ask him?" -Luke 11:13
"Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing
them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and
of the Holy Ghost:" -Matthew 28:19
"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy
Ghost." -II Peter 1:21


And I believe in one holy Catholic and apostolic
Church.
"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall
believe on me through their word; That they all may be one;
as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may
be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent
me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them;
that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and
thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that
the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved
them, as thou hast loved me. " -John 17:20-23
"I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye
walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With
all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing
one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the
Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one
Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One
Lord, one faith, one baptism; One God and Father of all,
who is above all, and through all, and in you all." -
Ephesians 4:1-6
"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is
the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in
all things he might have the preeminence." -
Colossians 1:18
"To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which
are written in heaven," -Hebrews 12:23
"...they which are written in the Lamb's book of
life." -Revelation 21:27
"...and with other my fellowlabourers, whose
names are in the book of life." -Philippians 4:3
"For where two or three are gathered together in my name,
there am I in the midst of them." -Matthew 18:20
"And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our
fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house:" -Philemon
1:2
"Likewise greet the church that is in their house." -Romans
16:5
"But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou
oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the
church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."
-I Timothy 3:15
"And are built upon the foundation of the apostles
and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief
corner stone;" -Ephesians 2:20
"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and
fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers." -Acts
2:42


I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins;
"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All
power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go
ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them
in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of
the Holy Ghost:" -Matthew 28:18,19
"One Lord, one faith, one baptism," -Ephesians 4:5
"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have
put on Christ." -Galatians 3:27
"For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed
for many for the remission of sins." -Matthew 26:28
"And that repentance and remission of sins should be
preached in his name among all nations, beginning at
Jerusalem." -Luke 24;47
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the
remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of
the Holy Ghost." -Acts 2:38
“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save
us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the
answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the
resurrection of Jesus Christ:” -I Peter 3:21
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into
Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are
buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ
was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even
so we also should walk in newness of life." -Romans 6:3,4


and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life
of the world to come. Amen.
"Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the
dead, how say some among you that there is no
resurrection of the dead?" -1
Corinthians 15:12
"For since by man came death, by man came also
the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all
die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." -1
Corinthians 15:21,22
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him
should not perish, but have everlasting life." -John
3:16
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard,
neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which
God hath prepared for them that love him." -1
Corinthians 2:9
"For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to
whom be the glory for ever. Amen." -Romans 11:36
™

OLAADEGBU:
I would rather you be more organised even if you are to copy and paste what you saw on the web site, at least you should be do it decently and in order for easy reading. Having said that, what you posted up there was the Apostles' Creed and it was not written by any of the Apostles, it was written about 150 years after the death of all the Apostles. When it says the "Catholic Church," that does not mean the Roman Catholic church it means the "Universal church." They are a gathering of all those who have been saved by faith in shed blood of Jesus Christ alone.

The Apostles' Creed in no way shape or form espouses what the Roman Catholic church teaches. For instance, the Decalogue says that we should not bow down to worship any image, either of things in heaven or earth. Does the Roman Catholic have this in their Bibles, have you deleted that part from your Bibles? If not please prove me wrong.

Ubenedictus:
that is not the apostles creed, what I posted is the Nicene creed, both the apostles creed and the Nicene creed are Catholic creed, written and believed by Christians who share the Catholic faith..

the Catholic Church is the Catholic Church not the heretics like the Protestant, and every article of the creed is believed by the Catholic Church.

italo:
and Jesus also gave the keys to the kingdom to "Peters confession" abi...keep fooling yourself alone.


It's in black and white, it doesn't need explanation:

John20:22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”


Matt16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

HashtagMoniker:
OP I think disagree with you on this, the title is misleading. In my understanding, what you posted as his actual speech does not seem to be as an extension of the title, it's more like that Bible passage that says "forsake not the fellowship of the brethren".

michaelwestern:
Your statement can be right only if when the pope said "church", he meant the entire body of Christ. But I seriously doubt that, I believe he meant that you can't have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ outside the roman Catholic Church, which is false.