0temSapien:
To you now, you are grieved in the spirit for a lost soul. Funny stuff. Well, in the long run, the light of GOD ALMIGHTY will reveal the truth to you. Then you will know the truth.

The truth you once received from the Lord will keep stirring in your heart. Don't kill it bro. Don't destroy your precious soul. You need to come back to the Lord and have life. This thing you're doing is not life.

Primesky:


The truth you once received from the Lord will keep stirring in your heart. Don't kill it bro. Don't destroy your precious soul. You need to come back to the Lord and have life. This thing you're doing is not life.

I've told you guys the truth of the matter but your intense hatred and anymosity for JWs won't let you grasp it. "You can't preach to an atheist by talking about HELLFIRE or punishment after death" the true God has a way of drawing honesthearted people to HIMSELF and it's by beating them hands down with unbeatable wisdom in THEIR OWN REASONING! Not quoting the Bible to instill fear in the minds of people who have no regards for the Bible, you can't expect a German who has no business in Nigeria to feel threatened when you're talking of the Nigerian constitution The Bible and it's words is ONLY to settle matters amongst those who believe in it but matters involving unbelievers are not to be handled directly from scriptural views,you can only tap ideas from the wisest human counselor ever (Jesus Christ) He ONLY dealt with Israelites back then yet He made use of unbeatable reasoning so that even those who have lost the interest in the scriptures were revived not because He quoted the scriptures but because He spoke with high intellect! John 7:45,46 This is my wives account,you guys are just amusing her with the way you're responding!

johnw47:

you otem and rio-wum whoever have a lot in common
for one, you both post a lot of smilies to hide your confusion, lack of knowledge, falsities and rage behind

You can say whatever you feel like saying,the reaction of these atheists themselves is enough proof to judge between us. I promised to silence them,as if you are so dumb you failed to notice how i draw Otem outside the podium to expose his lack of wisdom and started hitting him with powerful words. Atheists are here to debunk religion but their subtle approach blur peoples reasoning because they're blaming religion for been furious,provoked and judgmental towards unbelievers. So i pretended not to be offended with all that Otem was saying against Jehovah,Jesus and the Bible but as if we're to be tolerant towards everyone no matter what they think. And GBAM!!! Otem ran into the trap! and started displaying his provocation as if i must conform to whatever he said Whereas the motto of atheism is "freedom from mind control" so they are totally against "trying,compelling or forcing others to conform to ideologies" That's why i started lashing him with words because his own action is totally against the ideology of atheism!

This is what exposed atheism as equally guilty of the same allegation they're accusing religion for, if each person should be let alone to decide whatever he feels as his own religion then nobody should get provoked at anything his neighbor chose to believe in! That's why i followed Otem in their own reasoning until he couldn't take it anymore showing that their ideology is frail!

TATIME:
You can say whatever you feel like saying,the reaction of these atheists themselves is enough proof to judge between us. I promised to silence them,as if you are so dumb you failed to notice how i draw Otem outside the podium to expose his lack of wisdom and started hitting him with powerful words. Atheists are here to debunk religion but their subtle approach blur peoples reasoning because they're blaming religion for been furious,provoked and judgmental towards unbelievers. So i pretended not to be offended with all that Otem was saying against Jehovah,Jesus and the Bible but as if we're to be tolerant towards everyone no matter what they think. And GBAM!!! Otem ran into the trap! and started displaying his provocation as if i must conform to whatever he said Whereas the motto of atheism is "freedom from mind control" so they are totally against "trying,compelling or forcing others to conform to ideologies" That's why i started lashing him with words because his own action is totally against the ideology of atheism!

Lol. You really hit me with powerful words so much that you had to deactivate your account two times shamefully.

0temSapien:

Lol. You really hit me with powerful words so much that you had to deactivate your account two times shamefully.

There are two roads as in just TWO my friend.( Matthew 7:13,14) Those on the broad means majority of mankind who are still following the traits of Adam and Eve(our first parent) who wanted absolute freedom even from their creator. Genesis 2:17,3:5 And Those on the narrow connotes few individuals who love orderliness so all they have to do is FIND Jehovah's organization. Atheists have stand out clear that they belong to the broad road(NO SUBMITION) That makes your case easy before us,billions are still been deceived by religion thinking they are subjecting themselves to God but unfortunately they're also under Satan's domains, these are the ones we're searching for. Whenever they hear the sound of true wisdom they'll join us. John 10:27 So never think i came to your thread to convince atheists NO! I came purposely because of those professing to be Christians arguing with you,if any of them truly belongs to our group they'll notice divine wisdom and start looking for where and how i got it. As for you Otem,you yourself knew truthfully speaking that i've made a difference since you've been ARGUING with those claiming Christians,you knew quite well that i never argued with you but show you what WISDOM truly means Farewell my friend

TATIME:
There are two roads as in just TWO my friend.( Matthew 7:13,14) Those on the broad means majority of mankind who are still following the traits of Adam and Eve(our first parent) who wanted absolute freedom even from their creator. Genesis 2:17,3:5 And Those on the narrow connotes few individuals who love orderliness so all they have to do is FIND Jehovah's organization. Atheists have stand out clear that they belong to the broad road(NO SUBMITION) That makes your case easy before us,billions are still been deceived by religion thinking they are subjecting themselves to God but unfortunately they're also under Satan's domains, these are the ones we're searching for. Whenever they hear the sound of true wisdom they'll join us. John 10:27 So never think i came to your thread to convince atheists NO! I came purposely because of those professing to be Christians arguing with you,if any of them truly belongs to our group they'll notice divine wisdom and start looking for where and how i got it. As for you Otem,you yourself knew truthfully speaking that i've made a difference since you've been ARGUING with those claiming Christians,you knew quite well that i never argued with you but show you what WISDOM truly means Farewell my friend

well look whose back, whose back, whose back, whose back
i don't think even the so called jehovahs witnesses here would want to side with you after reading all of your delusional posts

TATIME:
You can say whatever you feel like saying,the reaction of these atheists themselves is enough proof to judge between us. I promised to silence them,as if you are so dumb you failed to notice how i draw Otem outside the podium to expose his lack of wisdom and started hitting him with powerful words. Atheists are here to debunk religion but their subtle approach blur peoples reasoning because they're blaming religion for been furious,provoked and judgmental towards unbelievers. So i pretended not to be offended with all that Otem was saying against Jehovah,Jesus and the Bible but as if we're to be tolerant towards everyone no matter what they think. And GBAM!!! Otem ran into the trap! and started displaying his provocation as if i must conform to whatever he said Whereas the motto of atheism is "freedom from mind control" so they are totally against "trying,compelling or forcing others to conform to ideologies" That's why i started lashing him with words because his own action is totally against the ideology of atheism!

i will tell you what i am not so dumb as to have noticed,
that you are here on your third account, and you have implied that otem is insane and lacking wisdom
and i agree with that, but he is not the only one rio-wum-tat whoever, and that you are even more so if possible

TATIME:
I've told you guys the truth of the matter but your intense hatred and anymosity for JWs won't let you grasp it. "You can't preach to an atheist by talking about HELLFIRE or punishment after death" the true God has a way of drawing honesthearted people to HIMSELF and it's by beating them hands down with unbeatable wisdom in THEIR OWN REASONING! Not quoting the Bible to instill fear in the minds of people who have no regards for the Bible, you can't expect a German who has no business in Nigeria to feel threatened when you're talking of the Nigerian constitution The Bible and it's words is ONLY to settle matters amongst those who believe in it but matters involving unbelievers are not to be handled directly from scriptural views,you can only tap ideas from the wisest human counselor ever (Jesus Christ) He ONLY dealt with Israelites back then yet He made use of unbeatable reasoning so that even those who have lost the interest in the scriptures were revived not because He quoted the scriptures but because He spoke with high intellect! John 7:45,46 This is my wives account,you guys are just amusing her with the way you're responding!

You and your wife are amused, but I am horrified by how you Jws misinterprete the bible. You actually turn the bible on its head.

Who is scaring the athiest?. Who brought hell fire discussion here first, how did it arise?.

If you must tell the truth to someone, say it, don't twist and hide the truth!. Let the individual decide what he wants to do, it's different from instilling fear in people. If I tell a teenager that he/she stands the risk of STDs if care is not taken, would you just call that fear mongering?. However, if I don't tell him/her the danger involved, then I have done a poor job.

This is the problem with JWs, you try to use human reasoning to win men, and you don't believe in hell fire neither do you talk about it. Yet, the saviour Jesus Christ talked and warned about hell more than he did for heaven. We don't threaten men with hell fire, rather we give to them the good news of salvation, and tell them what it saves them from, and what will happen if rejected. Do you preach salvation to someone who doesn't know what he/she is being saved from?. We don't use lies of human frailty, rather, we must depend on the word of God.

Before you make categorical statement about this guy called Otem, know that he was once a Christian!. He basically preempt statements, even when you haven't said it.

Hell is real and heaven is real, that's not fear mongering. This ice water, make me feel good messages, is the reason we have weak, unserious Christians today. Say no to false religion!

johnw47:


well look whose back, whose back, whose back, whose back
i don't think even the so called jehovahs witnesses here would want to side with you after reading all of your delusional posts

"TAKE SIDE" Well we Jehovah's servants just don't take sides with sentiment my friend. We listen GOOD to all conversations and then take side when we notice DIVINE WISDOM. James 1:19 compared to Matthew 16:16-19,22-23

Primesky:


You and your wife are amused, but I am horrified by how you Jws misinterprete the bible. You actually turn the bible on its head.

Who is scaring the athiest?. Who brought hell fire discussion here first, how did it arise?.

If you must tell the truth to someone, say it, don't twist and hide the truth!. Let the individual decide what he wants to do, it's different from instilling fear in people. If I tell a teenager that he/she stands the risk of STDs if care is not taken, would you just call that fear mongering?. However, if I don't tell him/her the danger involved, then I have done a poor job.

This is the problem with JWs, you try to use human reasoning to win men, and you don't believe in hell fire neither do you talk about it. Yet, the saviour Jesus Christ talked and warned about hell more than he did for heaven. We don't threaten men with hell fire, rather we give to them the good news of salvation, and tell them what it saves them from, and what will happen if rejected. Do you preach salvation to someone who doesn't know what he/she is being saved from?. We don't use lies of human frailty, rather, we must depend on the word of God.

Before you make categorical statement about this guy called Otem, know that he was once a Christian!. He basically preempt statements, even when you haven't said it.

Hell is real and heaven is real, that's not fear mongering. This ice water, make me feel good messages, is the reason we have weak, unserious Christians today. Say no to false religion!

"HELL is real and HEAVEN is real" of course both places are REAL but what we are saying is "forgo the dogmatic attitude of following the ideologies of the Greeks that has taken over religious people's brains worldwide and go for a thorough research as to what God actually said about those who won't live by HIS standards" that's all. Hell simply means Grave(simplified English) Sheol(Hebrew) Hades(Greek) and Heaven has two different meaning in the Bible (1) is the visible solar system we can see when using a telescope (2) the invisible dwelling place of Spirit beings. That's why the Bible could call the place where the throne of Almighty God is situated as the "THIRD HEAVEN" 2Corinthians 12:2 So in conclusion God's word is clear on this issue,it's either man chose to be obedient in order to live peacefully without harming himself and others and be allowed to live forever or become disobedient and in one way or the other continue to cause harm to himself and others,then Jehovah has no other option than to return him to dust! Romans 6:23 It's the wickedness in the heart of men that makes then feel that death is not enough punishment for wrongdoers but before Jehovah evildoers are just not fitting in his perfect arrangement so they're to return to noneexistence period! Psalms 37:7-11 And you said "Otem was a Christian" is it one who thoroughly searched for the truth before agreeing to become one or just another churchgoer born by parents following the long time (traditional) misinformation passed onto churches of Christendom? Well Muhammad lived during the 6th century ce and that's exactly what he learnt from the Catholics and today true Christians have unravel all those secrets

The simple and: At the end of the 'time of the gentiles'. So anytime now!

MusicSots:


When is the son of Man coming/ what are the signs?

TATIME, please don't be economical with the truth, and claiming to be doing away with old Greek dogma.

Hell fire exist as much as heaven exists. By teaching otherwise, you are not telling the truth!. The origin of your position is not from the bible neither is it from the old Greek letters. The originator of the no hell fire doctrine is the founder of your religion. Charles Teze Russell, your founder was born a baptist or say he was a baptist believer, later he became uncomfortable with the teaching about hell fire, and for that decided to quit and establish his own sect. To butress his ideology, he had to twist and amend the scriptures, an act that continued for centuries just to perpetuate a man's self impulse. Since then, several verses of scriptures have been bastardized by your group through out of context explanations, change of meaning, additions to the original text and other doctrinal murder and fraud has continued over the years. The sad thing is some of you the adherent do not know these and many more.

If you say there is no literal fire, then you are indirectly calling both Jesus Christ and the bible liars!. Jesus spoke about hell fire on several occasions. Tell me TATIME, will you believe your dead founder or would you believe Jesus Christ and the bible?. It's good you tell yourself the truth and tell others too the same.


Deuteronomy 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Take a look at the last scripture above. Then see the one below. Was God talking trash in Deuteronomy or was Jesus speaking in tongues in the new testament?. My dear, JW is built on falsehood and fasle teachings, you need to research it carefully and exit. Forget about the tongues that will wag. Look at this one below.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Primesky:
TATIME, please don't be economical with the truth, and claiming to be doing away with old Greek dogma.

Hell fire exist as much as heaven exists. By teaching otherwise, you are not telling the truth!. The origin of your position is not from the bible neither is it from the old Greek letters. The originator of the no hell fire doctrine is the founder of your religion. Charles Teze Russell, your founder was born a baptist or say he was a baptist believer, later he became uncomfortable with the teaching about hell fire, and for that decided to quit and establish his own sect. To butress his ideology, he had to twist and amend the scriptures, an act that continued for centuries just to perpetuate a man's self impulse. Since then, several verses of scriptures have been bastardized by your group through out of context explanations, change of meaning, additions to the original text and other doctrinal murder and fraud has continued over the years. The sad thing is some of you the adherent do not know these and many more.

If you say there is no literal fire, then you are indirectly calling both Jesus Christ and the bible liars!. Jesus spoke about hell fire on several occasions. Tell me TATIME, will you believe your dead founder or would you believe Jesus Christ and the bible?. It's good you tell yourself the truth and tell others too the same.


Deuteronomy 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Take a look at the last scripture above. Then see the one below. Was God talking trash in Deuteronomy or was Jesus speaking in tongues in the new testament?. My dear, JW is built on falsehood and fasle teachings, you need to research it carefully and exit. Forget about the tongues that will wag. Look at this one below.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Where is Adam now? Remember he chose to disobey God directly along with his wife,so according to the hellfire doctrine, what will become of Adam and Eve? Don't come up saying you can not judge because Jesus said something regarding the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah,while Adam and Eve were the first to commit sin! So if Jesus taught His followers about the present status of those people,you as one of His true followers should be able to say something about what will become of Adam and Eve. According to my own discernment from the Bible's messages so far,Adam and Eve have returned to nonexistence their initial state before creation! So based on your knowledge of the Bible please enlighten us in the light of your hellfire doctrine! Quoting the Bible and pointing to anywhere you read about fire is not what we're saying now, comprehensive explanation to drive home your point in harmony with what the Bible said from the beginning to the end like a summary. Jehovah said tormenting people alive in fire �has NOT COME INTO HIS HEART! Jeremiah 7:31 That is why we believe that there is a mix up somewhere,remember Jesus said many people will hear sacred things but the SECRET will be taken away from them. Matthew 13:11 Surely Jesus was referring to the majority and not minority,in this case JWs stands alone so try and think about the matter before concluding that what billions believe regarding tormenting people forever in fire. Remember Jesus is the WORD of God and He is the same person talking in Matthew 13:11. We strongly believe that all those saying God will continue to torment HIS enemies in fire FOREVER are missing something vital "understanding"

BRO, ALL I KNOW IS THAT IT WAS CREATED AT THE ERA OF BYZANTINE. ALL THE FOREIGN RELIGION THAT CAME TO AFRICA CAME THROUGH WAR.

TATIME:
"TAKE SIDE" Well we Jehovah's servants just don't take sides with sentiment my friend. We listen GOOD to all conversations and then take side when we notice DIVINE WISDOM. James 1:19 compared to Matthew 16:16-19,22-23

rio-wum-tat whoever, diffrent names but still the same self righteous pharisee

wisdom of the self rigfhteous is wisdom of the world:
(1Co 1:20) Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?


your wisdom of pleasing a person and then putting him down is seen by everyone but you to be foolishness:
Pro_10:23 It is as sport to a fool to do mischief: but a man of understanding hath wisdom.

rio-wum-tat
1 you false jw rio + came to this atheist otem's thread to show me how to deal with atheist otem,
2 otem runs away from you rio and his thread,
3 otem comes back to his thread and then you rio run away from otem saying you are here to post against christians

ha ha, such are you rio, a weak dishonest false jw, you are all over the place
same as otem

johnw47:
rio-wum-tat
1 you false jw rio + came to this atheist otem's thread to show me how to deal with atheist otem,
2 otem runs away from you rio and his thread,
3 otem comes back to his thread and then you rio run away from otem saying you are here to post against christians

ha ha, such are you rio, a weak dishonest false jw, you are all over the place
same as otem

Instead of quarrelling with atheists who ridiculed your religion,you are now furious against a person who has ridiculed atheism and rendered it speechless Truly speaking Jesus is a perfect creature for He said "by their fruit you shall IDENTIFY them" Matthew 7:17-20 This podium has helped to uncover the secret person in you (Luke 6:45)so you can continue crying for all i care.Thank God there is freedom of expression and worship today otherwise a credulous,heartbroken,frustated and deluded individual like you will kill a true Christian out of uncontrolled envy(Genesis4:7) Sorry o keep crying. After trying to make peace with you,you are still angry since almost a week ago( Ephesians 4:26)yet you are claiming to be a Christian while i'm supposed to be the Pharisee.

Primesky:
TATIME, please don't be economical with the truth, and claiming to be doing away with old Greek dogma.

Hell fire exist as much as heaven exists. By teaching otherwise, you are not telling the truth!. The origin of your position is not from the bible neither is it from the old Greek letters. The originator of the no hell fire doctrine is the founder of your religion. Charles Teze Russell, your founder was born a baptist or say he was a baptist believer, later he became uncomfortable with the teaching about hell fire, and for that decided to quit and establish his own sect. To butress his ideology, he had to twist and amend the scriptures, an act that continued for centuries just to perpetuate a man's self impulse. Since then, several verses of scriptures have been bastardized by your group through out of context explanations, change of meaning, additions to the original text and other doctrinal murder and fraud has continued over the years. The sad thing is some of you the adherent do not know these and many more.

If you say there is no literal fire, then you are indirectly calling both Jesus Christ and the bible liars!. Jesus spoke about hell fire on several occasions. Tell me TATIME, will you believe your dead founder or would you believe Jesus Christ and the bible?. It's good you tell yourself the truth and tell others too the same.


Deuteronomy 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Take a look at the last scripture above. Then see the one below. Was God talking trash in Deuteronomy or was Jesus speaking in tongues in the new testament?. My dear, JW is built on falsehood and fasle teachings, you need to research it carefully and exit. Forget about the tongues that will wag. Look at this one below.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

If you truly want to know the reason for our disagreement with the hellfire doctrine,then you need to answer few questions with REFERENCES from the Bible (1) When a person is truly nice,kind and good as in virtuous deeds but refuses to accept Jesus as his Lord, where will he spend eternity? (2) What happens to Adam and Eve? (3) How can God justify that HE is LOVE and forgives if HE(God) decides to retain an offender who spent 80 years to do evil(which is not possible because he will have his/her loved ones to whom he does good) in torment FOREVER I want us to take it one after the other with wisdom from God's word. Please don't bother about whatever your friend John is saying because i'm through with him as i've proved what i said so if he's still annoyed because i said there is greater wisdom in true Christianity then i can't help him. So answer those questions with references from the scriptures, thank you!

Primesky:
TATIME, please don't be economical with the truth, and claiming to be doing away with old Greek dogma.
Hell fire exist as much as heaven exists. By teaching otherwise, you are not telling the truth!. The origin of your position is not from the bible neither is it from the old Greek letters. The originator of the no hell fire doctrine is the founder of your religion. Charles Teze Russell, your founder was born a baptist or say he was a baptist believer, later he became uncomfortable with the teaching about hell fire, and for that decided to quit and establish his own sect. To butress his ideology, he had to twist and amend the scriptures, an act that continued for centuries just to perpetuate a man's self impulse. Since then, several verses of scriptures have been bastardized by your group through out of context explanations, change of meaning, additions to the original text and other doctrinal murder and fraud has continued over the years. The sad thing is some of you the adherent do not know these and many more.
If you say there is no literal fire, then you are indirectly calling both Jesus Christ and the bible liars!.
Jesus spoke about hell fire on several occasions.
Tell me TATIME, will you believe your dead founder or would you believe Jesus Christ and the bible?.
It's good you tell yourself the truth and tell others too the same.
Deuteronomy 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Take a look at the last scripture above. Then see the one below. Was God talking trash in Deuteronomy or was Jesus speaking in tongues in the new testament?. My dear, JW is built on falsehood and fasle teachings, you need to research it carefully and exit. Forget about the tongues that will wag. Look at this one below.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

TATIME:
"HELL is real and HEAVEN is real" of course both places are REAL
but what we are saying is
"forgo the dogmatic attitude of following the ideologies of the Greeks that has taken over religious people's brains worldwide
and go for a thorough research as to what God actually said about those who won't live by HIS standards" that's all.

Hell simply means Grave(simplified English) Sheol(Hebrew) Hades(Greek) and Heaven has two different meaning in the Bible (1) is the visible solar system we can see when using a telescope (2) the invisible dwelling place of Spirit beings.
That's why the Bible could call the place where the throne of Almighty God is situated as the "THIRD HEAVEN" 2Corinthians 12:2
So in conclusion God's word is clear on this issue,it's either man chose to be obedient in order to live peacefully without harming himself and others and be allowed to live forever or become disobedient and in one way or the other continue to cause harm to himself and others,then Jehovah has no other option than to return him to dust! Romans 6:23 It's the wickedness in the heart of men that makes then feel that death is not enough punishment for wrongdoers but before Jehovah evildoers are just not fitting in his perfect arrangement so they're to return to noneexistence period! Psalms 37:7-11 And you said "Otem was a Christian" is it one who thoroughly searched for the truth before agreeing to become one or just another churchgoer born by parents following the long time (traditional) misinformation passed onto churches of Christendom? Well Muhammad lived during the 6th century ce and that's exactly what he learnt from the Catholics and today true Christians have unravel all those secrets

Hell or better put, Hades, actually is a Greek concept, the Jews have no concept of Hell or Hades
they have sheol, alright but the concept of Hell or Hades, is a Greek one.

Sheol is more of a proper and real biblical Israelite concept of where the dead are ''interned''

Sheol in an oversimplified or elementary manner can be grave or has been referred as grave

Grave/tomb/sepulchre sites are merely places of deposit for a corpse. Sheol is the realm of the dead or departed souls
- Souls do not linger in the air. Souls do not stay in limbo. Souls do not hang about. Souls do not make revisits

Until Jesus in the NT, Sheol in general, without necessarily distinguishing between righteous or unrighteous souls, has been the realm of the dead or abode of the dead

We have verses in OT (e.g. Psalm 9:17 etcetera) suggesting that the wicked go to Sheol
but it was Jesus in the NT that brought things into perspective when he shared the hyperbolic illustration of Sheol with the story of the Rich Man being elsewhere and Abraham with the Poor Man being on a different side
Remember just like because you're telling a joke, it doesnt necessarily mean, the joke is devoid of some element of truth and reality
so is the case with the parable of the rich man and poor man.

Sheol (i.e. the original Hebrew concept of afterlife) now has gray lines shared with Gehenna (i.e. the refuse dump in Jerusalem hyperbolically referred to by Jesus in Matthew 5:29 Matthew 18:9 and Mark 9:47) and Hell (i.e. a Greek mythology and Greek concept of afterlife) which arent really understood
The etymology of afterlife from a Jewish concept (i.e. Sheol, with 2 sections) has changed over time and Sheol, since, has being interchangeably replaced with Gehenna and Hell/Hades

Reiterating, hell which has become synonymous with Hades, is neither Hebrew or Greek in origin

Sheol is, what you'll find in the original Hebrew text for any word for Hell
In other places, Hades or Hell was the Greek substitution for the part of Sheol where the Rich man is from the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus

As a matter of fact, Hell, actually finds it roots in the classic Greek mythology, Hades

where Hades interestingly and actually, was the ancient Greek god of the underworld.
This god's name (i.e. Hades) later turned to mean the place or abode of the dead, which actually is exactly what Sheol is, what is signifies or represents.

Talking about Gehenna,
well it is a valley, a valley in Jerusalem, used as a dumping refuse site and so was used by Jesus to depict the Lake of fire
(i.e. it is a place of destruction, as in, via incineration, a place for destroying things)

As earlier mentioned, Gehenna was the incinerating refuse dump in Jerusalem
Hades however, historically and originally is the name of a Greek god until it got turned to meaning the place or abode of the dead
It later got interchanged with hell, which is from a German word root
It was bible translators who were substituing the original Hebrew word Sheol (i.e. the part where the dead of the Rich man sort are), with Greek counterparts Hades/Hell that made hell stick with us today

Death is not a physical person but it will cease to exist because it will be destroyed when figuratively thrown into a physical lake of fire

OnyeOGA:
BRO, ALL I KNOW IS THAT IT WAS CREATED AT THE ERA OF BYZANTINE. ALL THE FOREIGN RELIGION THAT CAME TO AFRICA CAME THROUGH WAR.

You're right my friend,foreign religions came to Africa through WAR. But let us be sincere with ourselves,if someone comes to a place newly and introduce himself as a "tailor" while those living there don't know the meaning of the word tailor and after seeing all his activities he couldn't sew anything worthwhile,but you all continue calling him "tailor" out of ignorance. Then another man came with a catalog full of different designs,measurement tape,sewing machine and scissors,start sewing different types of outfits and making his customers looking radiant what will you say? Will you just rubbish the former along with the earlier just because they both claim to be "tailors" or you'll make a comparison to ascertain the real meaning of the word "TAILOR"? Well many false religions have blurred the sense of billions for centuries given Christianity a bad image but that doesn't mean that if you have the opportunity to know what Christianity really means you won't seize it.If you care to know Jehovah's Witnesses are the true Christians,we don't take up weapons for any reason. Matthew 26:52,Isaiah 2:2-4,Micah 4:2-4 We don't participate in politics because it is the main factor behind racism. We don't have title leaders(Pastors) who makes rules without obeying it themselves. We're always law abiding no matter what those in authority does. We believe in God's judgement so we're eagerly preaching,teaching,waiting and encouraging ourselves to hope in God's coming government. Daniel 2:44,Matthew 6:10 So it will be evil if anyone to take you for an offense committed by someone else simply because you bear the same name with the criminal!

MuttleyLaff:




Hell or better put, Hades, actually is a Greek concept, the Jews have no concept of Hell or Hades
they have sheol, alright but the concept of Hell or Hades, is a Greek one.

Sheol is more of a proper and real biblical Israelite concept of where the dead are ''interned''

Sheol in an oversimplified or elementary manner can be grave or has been referred as grave

Grave/tomb/sepulchre sites are merely places of deposit for a corpse. Sheol is the realm of the dead or departed souls
- Souls do not linger in the air. Souls do not stay in limbo. Souls do not hang about. Souls do not make revisits

Until Jesus in the NT, Sheol in general, without necessarily distinguishing between righteous or unrighteous souls, has been the realm of the dead or abode of the dead

We have verses in OT (e.g. Psalm 9:17 etcetera) suggesting that the wicked go to Sheol
but it was Jesus in the NT that brought things into perspective when he shared the hyperbolic illustration of Sheol with the story of the Rich Man being elsewhere and Abraham with the Poor Man being on a different side
Remember just like because you're telling a joke, it doesnt necessarily mean, the joke is devoid of some element of truth and reality
so is the case with the parable of the rich man and poor man.

Sheol (i.e. the original Hebrew concept of afterlife) now has gray lines shared with Gehenna (i.e. the refuse dump in Jerusalem hyperbolically referred to by Jesus in Matthew 5:29 Matthew 18:9 and Mark 9:47) and Hell (i.e. a Greek mythology and Greek concept of afterlife) which arent really understood
The etymology of afterlife from a Jewish concept (i.e. Sheol, with 2 sections) has changed over time and Sheol, since, has being interchangeably replaced with Gehenna and Hell/Hades

Reiterating, hell which has become synonymous with Hades, is neither Hebrew or Greek in origin

Sheol is, what you'll find in the original Hebrew text for any word for Hell
In other places, Hades or Hell was the Greek substitution for the part of Sheol where the Rich man is from the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus

As a matter of fact, Hell, actually finds it roots in the classic Greek mythology, Hades

where Hades interestingly and actually, was the ancient Greek god of the underworld.
This god's name (i.e. Hades) later turned to mean the place or abode of the dead, which actually is exactly what Sheol is, what is signifies or represents.

Talking about Gehenna,
well it is a valley, a valley in Jerusalem, used as a dumping refuse site and so was used by Jesus to depict the Lake of fire
(i.e. it is a place of destruction, as in, via incineration, a place for destroying things)

As earlier mentioned, Gehenna was the incinerating refuse dump in Jerusalem
Hades however, historically and originally is the name of a Greek god until it got turned to meaning the place or abode of the dead
It later got interchanged with hell, which is from a German word root
It was bible translators who were substituing the original Hebrew word Sheol (i.e. the part where the dead of the Rich man sort are), with Greek counterparts Hades/Hell that made hell stick with us today

Death is not a physical person but it will cease to exist because it will be destroyed when figuratively thrown into a physical lake of fire

Well Jesus said it is granted for TRUE Christians to understand God's word but not granted to others,why? Because true Christians are looking for ways to assist others unlike hypocrites who just want to seize every oppotunity to extort money from everyone! FIRE connotes total destruction because whatever we mortals trow into the fire is what we have no need of it,so Jehovah uses FIRE as a word to help us grasp what HE had in mind against DEATH,GRAVE and EVIL. Revelations 20:14

TATIME:
Instead of quarrelling with atheists who ridiculed your religion,you are now furious against a person who has ridiculed atheism and rendered it speechless

false jw riofidelio, not furious at all, i have disliked false jw for a long time, you have it wrong yet again

TATIME: Truly speaking Jesus is a perfect creature for He said "by their fruit you shall IDENTIFY them" Matthew 7:17-20 This podium has helped to uncover the secret person in you (Luke 6:45)so you can continue crying for all i care.Thank God there is freedom of expression and worship today otherwise a credulous,heartbroken,frustated and deluded individual like you will kill a true Christian out of uncontrolled envy(Genesis4:7) Sorry o keep crying. After trying to make peace with you,you are still angry since almost a week ago( Ephesians 4:26)yet you are claiming to be a Christian while i'm supposed to be the Pharisee.

and just a little while ago you spoke so nicely of me riofidelio

was it you who said otem is insane, lunatic, take a look at yourself, laugh

Jas_1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

johnw47:

false jw riofidelio, not furious at all, i have disliked false jw for a long time, you have it wrong yet again



and just a little while ago you spoke so nicely of me riofidelio

was it you who said otem is insane, lunatic, take a look at yourself, laugh

Jas_1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

"You dislike JWs a long time ago" for disagreement in teaching,so did you dislike every other religion claiming Christians for the same reason? I never spoke nicely of you,i wanted to make peace in other for you to have a rethink.The ONLY reason all these churches aren't bearing the same name is as a result of difference in the mindset of the leaders. Therefore if you dislike ONLY Jehovah's Witnesses now i want you to realise that it's due to one single fact "Jesus claims to be the ONLY channel to reach God" every other religious leader of His time hated Jesus because they thought He was bragging so Jesus warned us that every other religious group will develop the same intense hatred for us as we claim the same thing! Matthew 10:22 John 17:16 You will notice that you have NO other reason than saying "JWs are self righteous braggats" and you amuse me as you keep equating us to Pharisees because they were not certain that their group alone was the ONLY channel! There were Saddusees,Scribes and other teachers of the law and none of them could claim to be the one and only until John the baptist came condemning all of them and directing everyone to Jesus who also did the same thing! So if you hate JWs my friend ask yourself,why? If it's that same reason "they're claiming to be the ONLY one" then you need to have a rethink! Yes you have faith but if your faith has no WORK then something is wrong somewhere, notice that i confidently told you "i will silence atheism in their own reasoning" and i kept telling you it's not just me but the holy spirit that's operating in me. So both you and i have FAITH but one is put to use "WORK" while the other is useless or DEAD(James 2:26) This is not mockery my friend it's called the TRUTH, most people will hear it and turn to rage while humble ones will hear it and rejoice for having the opportunity to know it and seize that OPPORTUNITY to make it their own! That is what i did before having this wisdom,it wasn't easy for me too when i first discovered that my religion was built on falsehood. If you can't stand hearing what is wrong with your beliefs then you can't preach effectively to convince another person to change his/her beliefs!

TATIME:
If you truly want to know the reason for our disagreement with the hellfire doctrine,then you need to answer few questions with REFERENCES from the Bible (1) When a person is truly nice,kind and good as in virtuous deeds but refuses to accept Jesus as his Lord, where will he spend eternity? (2) What happens to Adam and Eve? (3) How can God justify that HE is LOVE and forgives if HE(God) decides to retain an offender who spent 80 years to do evil(which is not possible because he will have his/her loved ones to whom he does good) in torment FOREVER I want us to take it one after the other with wisdom from God's word. Please don't bother about whatever your friend John is saying because i'm through with him as i've proved what i said so if he's still annoyed because i said there is greater wisdom in true Christianity then i can't help him. So answer those questions with references from the scriptures, thank you!

Human wisdom is what you're basing your doctrinal beliefs on. Sorry bro, you're bound to falter!. The bible is clear about the whole matter.

For the first question see this 1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

It doesn't matter how good and nice you are.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

No mater how nice and good you are, you don't still measure up without Jesus Christ. The bible said all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Without Jesus Christ, there's no salvation!, and if you don't have life and salvation which is in Jesus, your name can't be in the lambs book of life, so what follows, what do you expect?. Eternal death in the fires of hell!.

Your second question. I do not know what happened to Adam and Eve. And indeed what happened to the spirit and souls of all that died before the advent of Jesus Christ. However, the bible gave us a clue as to the possibility of them also hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ before the final judgment, even though they were dead. God is just. Look at the scripture below.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


Pay attention to the last verse above, you will see the set of spirits Jesus went to preach to after death. have you ever wondered why Jesus had to stay in the grave for three days?, maybe now you know. So nobody ever created by God will give excuse whether dead or alive, each one of us must make that important decision whether to believe in and accept Christ Jesus or not Because eternal life is in Jesus Christ.No man can have it dead or alive without Him. Don't forget that Jesus though appeared in the world seen at a later date, the bible says He has already been slain from the foundation of the world. So that includes Adam and Eve. Now whether they believed or not I can't tell. This is the same thing playing out in earth now!. If there was no hell and destruction so terrible and fearsome, God won't go all the way to save mankind. Think.

You can now see that your position about hell is born out of wrong feeling, interpretation and understanding of the scriptures by your founder. This position was not told him by God, neither did the Bible support it.

For your third question. God made you, me and all mankind freewill personalities. He advises us on what to do, hence the bible. He also provided a means of correction in case wrong is committed. The blood of Jesus Christ. He is enduringly patient with the offender. Should such a one reject correction, will you blame God?. Don't forget that God is also a just God. If He condones evil, then He's not being just. The main point however is, you are a product of the breath of God, very unique and distinct with emotions and reasoning faculties. That is a living spirit. So if the raw material of your spirit is made by God's breath. The question is, can you destroy the breath of God?. Now, God owns everything in the universe, it's His house so to speak. Now just like us, anything dirty and unworthy, we toss into the dustbin. Liken hell fire as the dustbin of everything not in tune or unacceptable to God. When you go to a major dumping site, do you see fire there?. This is just my own human explanation.

MuttleyLaff:




Hell or better put, Hades, actually is a Greek concept, the Jews have no concept of Hell or Hades
they have sheol, alright but the concept of Hell or Hades, is a Greek one.

Sheol is more of a proper and real biblical Israelite concept of where the dead are ''interned''

Sheol in an oversimplified or elementary manner can be grave or has been referred as grave

Grave/tomb/sepulchre sites are merely places of deposit for a corpse. Sheol is the realm of the dead or departed souls
- Souls do not linger in the air. Souls do not stay in limbo. Souls do not hang about. Souls do not make revisits

Until Jesus in the NT, Sheol in general, without necessarily distinguishing between righteous or unrighteous souls, has been the realm of the dead or abode of the dead

We have verses in OT (e.g. Psalm 9:17 etcetera) suggesting that the wicked go to Sheol
but it was Jesus in the NT that brought things into perspective when he shared the hyperbolic illustration of Sheol with the story of the Rich Man being elsewhere and Abraham with the Poor Man being on a different side
Remember just like because you're telling a joke, it doesnt necessarily mean, the joke is devoid of some element of truth and reality
so is the case with the parable of the rich man and poor man.

Sheol (i.e. the original Hebrew concept of afterlife) now has gray lines shared with Gehenna (i.e. the refuse dump in Jerusalem hyperbolically referred to by Jesus in Matthew 5:29 Matthew 18:9 and Mark 9:47) and Hell (i.e. a Greek mythology and Greek concept of afterlife) which arent really understood
The etymology of afterlife from a Jewish concept (i.e. Sheol, with 2 sections) has changed over time and Sheol, since, has being interchangeably replaced with Gehenna and Hell/Hades

Reiterating, hell which has become synonymous with Hades, is neither Hebrew or Greek in origin

Sheol is, what you'll find in the original Hebrew text for any word for Hell
In other places, Hades or Hell was the Greek substitution for the part of Sheol where the Rich man is from the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus

As a matter of fact, Hell, actually finds it roots in the classic Greek mythology, Hades

where Hades interestingly and actually, was the ancient Greek god of the underworld.
This god's name (i.e. Hades) later turned to mean the place or abode of the dead, which actually is exactly what Sheol is, what is signifies or represents.

Talking about Gehenna,
well it is a valley, a valley in Jerusalem, used as a dumping refuse site and so was used by Jesus to depict the Lake of fire
(i.e. it is a place of destruction, as in, via incineration, a place for destroying things)

As earlier mentioned, Gehenna was the incinerating refuse dump in Jerusalem
Hades however, historically and originally is the name of a Greek god until it got turned to meaning the place or abode of the dead
It later got interchanged with hell, which is from a German word root
It was bible translators who were substituing the original Hebrew word Sheol (i.e. the part where the dead of the Rich man sort are), with Greek counterparts Hades/Hell that made hell stick with us today

Death is not a physical person but it will cease to exist because it will be destroyed when figuratively thrown into a physical lake of fire

Hmm... Excuse me sir, the story of the Richman and Lazarus, was it real or a parable?.

In the story of the Richman and Lazarus, the both of them were in Sheol as you said, was there any demarcation between them both?. Why did the richman request for water and Lazarus didn't?. Since the both of them where in the same Sheol, why did the richman complain about being in torment and Lazarus was being comforted in Abraham's bossom in the same Sheol!. I will appreciate a clarification here. Thanks.

TATIME:
"You dislike JWs a long time ago" for disagreement in teaching,so did you dislike every other religion claiming Christians for the same reason? I never spoke nicely of you,i wanted to make peace in other for you to have a rethink.The ONLY reason all these churches aren't bearing the same name is as a result of difference in the mindset of the leaders. Therefore if you dislike ONLY Jehovah's Witnesses now i want you to realise that it's due to one single fact "Jesus claims to be the ONLY channel to reach God" every other religious leader of His time hated Jesus because they thought He was bragging so Jesus warned us that every other religious group will develop the same intense hatred for us as we claim the same thing! Matthew 10:22 John 17:16 You will notice that you have NO other reason than saying "JWs are self righteous braggats" and you amuse me as you keep equating us to Pharisees because they were not certain that their group alone was the ONLY channel! There were Saddusees,Scribes and other teachers of the law and none of them could claim to be the one and only until John the baptist came condemning all of them and directing everyone to Jesus who also did the same thing! So if you hate JWs my friend ask yourself,why? If it's that same reason "they're claiming to be the ONLY one" then you need to have a rethink! Yes you have faith but if your faith has no WORK then something is wrong somewhere, notice that i confidently told you "i will silence atheism in their own reasoning" and i kept telling you it's not just me but the holy spirit that's operating in me. So both you and i have FAITH but one is put to use "WORK" while the other is useless or DEAD(James 2:26) This is not mockery my friend it's called the TRUTH, most people will hear it and turn to rage while humble ones will hear it and rejoice for having the opportunity to know it and seize that OPPORTUNITY to make it their own! That is what i did before having this wisdom,it wasn't easy for me too when i first discovered that my religion was built on falsehood. If you can't stand hearing what is wrong with your beliefs then you can't preach effectively to convince another person to change his/her beliefs!

riofidelio-wum-tat, just more of your continued self rigfhteous puffed up prideful lies

you have said i am furious and i told you i'm not, now you say i have intense hate, which i don't
i don't like false jw as God doesn't like you,
but you keep on lying-accusing, that's what false jw's do, taking after their true father god:

Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

TATIME:
If you truly want to know the reason for our disagreement with the hellfire doctrine,then you need to answer few questions with REFERENCES from the Bible (1) When a person is truly nice,kind and good as in virtuous deeds but refuses to accept Jesus as his Lord, where will he spend eternity? (2) What happens to Adam and Eve? (3) How can God justify that HE is LOVE and forgives if HE(God) decides to retain an offender who spent 80 years to do evil(which is not possible because he will have his/her loved ones to whom he does good) in torment FOREVER I want us to take it one after the other with wisdom from God's word. Please don't bother about whatever your friend John is saying because i'm through with him as i've proved what i said so if he's still annoyed because i said there is greater wisdom in true Christianity then i can't help him. So answer those questions with references from the scriptures, thank you!

riofidelio-wum-tat, you say you are through with me but you cannot even avoid mentioning me in a post to another

ummm i don't believe i was even in the hellfire debate, ha ha such a phony jw

TATIME:
I never spoke nicely of you,

riofidelio-wum-tat to johnw47:

"well thanks and God bless you"

"God bless you! smiley "

"You are blessed in Jesus name amen!"

"Thanks John,i love you!"

"God bless you!"

"God bless you"




see how you cannot stop lying oh double minded riofidelio

Jas_1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

and rio you show that to be so true in your most every post

Primesky:


Human wisdom is what you're basing your doctrinal beliefs on. Sorry bro, you're bound to falter!. The bible is clear about the whole matter.

For the first question see this 1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

It doesn't matter how good and nice you are.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

No mater how nice and good you are, you don't still measure up without Jesus Christ. The bible said all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Without Jesus Christ, there's no salvation!, and if you don't have life and salvation which is in Jesus, your name can't be in the lambs book of life, so what follows, what do you expect?. Eternal death in the fires of hell!.

Your second question. I do not know what happened to Adam and Eve. And indeed what happened to the spirit and souls of all that died before the advent of Jesus Christ. However, the bible gave us a clue as to the possibility of them also hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ before the final judgment, even though they were dead. God is just. Look at the scripture below.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


Pay attention to the last verse above, you will see the set of spirits Jesus went to preach to after death. have you ever wondered why Jesus had to stay in the grave for three days?, maybe now you know. So nobody ever created by God will give excuse whether dead or alive, each one of us must make that important decision whether to believe in and accept Christ Jesus or not Because eternal life is in Jesus Christ.No man can have it dead or alive without Him. Don't forget that Jesus though appeared in the world seen at a later date, the bible says He has already been slain from the foundation of the world. So that includes Adam and Eve. Now whether they believed or not I can't tell. This is the same thing playing out in earth now!. If there was no hell and destruction so terrible and fearsome, God won't go all the way to save mankind. Think.

You can now see that your position about hell is born out of wrong feeling, interpretation and understanding of the scriptures by your founder. This position was not told him by God, neither did the Bible support it.

For your third question. God made you, me and all mankind freewill personalities. He advises us on what to do, hence the bible. He also provided a means of correction in case wrong is committed. The blood of Jesus Christ. He is enduringly patient with the offender. Should such a one reject correction, will you blame God?. Don't forget that God is also a just God. If He condones evil, then He's not being just. The main point however is, you are a product of the breath of God, very unique and distinct with emotions and reasoning faculties. That is a living spirit. So if the raw material of your spirit is made by God's breath. The question is, can you destroy the breath of God?. Now, God owns everything in the universe, it's His house so to speak. Now just like us, anything dirty and unworthy, we toss into the dustbin. Liken hell fire as the dustbin of everything not in tune or unacceptable to God. When you go to a major dumping site, do you see fire there?. This is just my own human explanation.

There is just one single difference between JWs and every other religion "straight point". So according to the hellfire doctrine,even if someone is nice,kind and easygoing but refused to accept Jesus then he must be tormented forever for rejecting Jesus! Is that so? Again God will torment a part of himself forever if the breath is what will be tormented! Well remember that you were not born with whatever you are saying right now,you grow up to learn about all these from someone,somewhere and sometime so it's not a matter of either founder or church leader. In this case anyone could be correct and anyone could be wrong so back to our point. What we believe is that God created us to live forever in Paradise without pain or fear of any kind but Adam and Eve chose to be absolutely independent from God when HE already warned that anyone who chose such will seize to exist,why? because there is no way intelligent creatures could live together without rules as in standards,if not they will cause harm to themselves and others. Jesus came to replace Adam(1Corinthians.15:45)we now have another father who can teach us how to be obedient to God always. John 8:28, Deuteronomy 6:6,7 So Jesus does become our new governor,wonderfully counseling us in order to direct and reconcile us back to God,chief law instructor and healer(God) so to speak,new father through whom we can inherit everlasting life and teacher on how to make peace reign amongst mankind. Isaiah 9:6 That is why anyone who rejects Jesus will not be permitted to keep living when God's Kingdom start operating(Proverbs 8:34) because such a person is still relating to his/her source of life "Jehovah" through Adam(Luke 3:38) and that means DEATH is awaiting such a person since Adam his/her link is dead(noneexixtence or inactive)forever! Genesis 3:17-19 Jesus' sacrificial death quantify Him for this when He paid the price that each sinner must pay(death). He is perfect like Adam so whatever Adam's disobedience brought upon his children,Jesus' price cleanse every body from that curse but on one condition! Whoever want to benefit from such a provision must accept that he is destined to die because of his genealogy, he need a redeemer,identify the one who has come to redeem mankind,listen to counsels on how to gain life and obediently do things in amony with what the redeemer says. That is what accepting Jesus as your personal Lord and saviour means!

johnw47:


riofidelio-wum-tat to johnw47:

"well thanks and God bless you"

"God bless you! smiley "

"You are blessed in Jesus name amen!"

"Thanks John,i love you!"

"God bless you!"

"God bless you"




see how you cannot stop lying oh double minded riofidelio

Jas_1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

and rio you show that to be so true in your most every post

You're just an accuser with no reasoning my friend but Primesky is talking with points and ready to reason from the scriptures so please don't be offended if i totally ignore you henceforth!

Primesky, les i forget Jesus preaching to the spirit has a deeper meaning my friend. The Bible is clear that in the grave their is NO repentance for the dead are conscious of nothing at all,they can't see,smell,hear or touch because THEY ARE DEAD! Ecclesiastes 9:4-11 So what is the meaning of that scripture? Well the spirits in question aren't those who are dead but demons in tartarus(Ephasians 6:12,2Peter 2:4,Jude 6,9) to know that Jesus is dead and so the opportunity for humans to live forever is now granted. These evil spirits thought they're still proving something since humans are under curse but at Jesus' death all their effort to prove that NO intelligent creature will remain on God's side in the face of severe test becomes futile! Job 1:7-12 compared to Hebrews 12:3 So Jesus' death is like telling those demons "all your efforts are in vain" that is why Satan their leader led them to start attacking TRUE Christians ever since the day Jesus died till today! Revelations 12:17 Now after Jesus' resurrection,He could say "all powers both in heaven and on earth has been given to Him" because He can now decide on what to do with Satan and the demons as Jehovah has made Him Judge after completing the greatest assignment ever! Matthew 28:18 compared to John 19:30