Shelumiel:
So we have two Fathers' right ? Please answer .

food for thought

Maamin:


Remember this king David's literal throne is meant to be forever inheritance of Christ.

Here are bible verses for reference
1 Chronicles 17:10-14
Luke 1:32-33
Isaiah 2:1-4
Isaiah 9:6-7
Isaiah 11:1-10
Isaiah 16:5
Isaiah 40:1-11
Isaiah 52:7-15
Jeremiah 23:5-6
Jeremiah 33:17-26
Daniel 2:44
Daniel 7:27
Micah 4:1-5
Micah 5:2-5
Zechariah 9:9

My question now is in revelations

Two thrones were mentioned
That of God and that of the lamb..none for the holy spirit. How do we add this up as well to arrive at this very trinity doctrine

Revelation 7:10
And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

Revelation 21:22
I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Revelation 11:15
…“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord [God] and of his Christ [Jesus], and he will reign for ever and ever.”

Revelation 22:1
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Revelation 5:13
…“To him who sits on the throne [God] and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”

I feel something is missing out in this triniterian teaching that makes it unacceptable.

Where do you have your problem in bro?

Peacefullove:


If your mind has processed the bolded and realize the only true God is not Jesus . We won't have talk this much

oh duh once again

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

God sending the Word doesn't change the fact that God and the Word is God

Mat_9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

For unto us a Child is born,
unto us a Son is given:
and the government shall be upon His shoulder:
and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God,
The everlasting Father,
The Prince of Peace.
- Isaiah 9:6

I'll ask this question again that's often stylishly ignored:
Is it impossible for God to simultaneously and concurrently be, in Heaven and earth, at any moment of time?

That Isaiah 9:6 above aside, one really ought to, at least and for a start,
be asking oneself the following questions:
#1 Why did the God, need to become, God, the Father?
#2 Why did God, need to become, God, the Son?
#3 Why did God, stick to this human being means and following these protocols?

Well the phrase "Holy Trinity" is a misnomer
as it is suggesting an idea that is obviously wrong

God, the Living, Intelligent, Omnipresent, Self-Existing, All-Powerful, Authority, Influence being, cant be boxed up.

Part of the absurdity of the theological shenanigans so far presented on this thread, is the aspect of pigeonholing God into trinity
People wishing and trying their hardest best to pigeonhole God
It actually is imposing restrictions on God's activities or freedom, to be what He wishes to be

For crying out loud, God is not limited to 3 persons
because, God is ''I AM THAT I AM'', ''I SHALL BE THAT I SHALL'', ''I WILL BE THAT I BE''
so, since God is, not-known-number-of persons
God, then, is, x-persons
God, in effect is, ∞-persons

Adam, Noah, the patriarchs, the Israelites etcetera didnt know God, as a Father, as a Son
The realisation or knowledge of God being a Father and being a Son, came with the advent of Jesus

Who knows what other person(s), during the passage of time, God will also reveal Himself to be

cc pressplay411 OneJ johnw47 Maamin Shelumiel Perfectbeing

MuttleyLaff:
For unto us a Child is born,
unto us a Son is given:
and the government shall be upon His shoulder:
and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God,
The everlasting Father,
The Prince of Peace.
- Isaiah 9:6

I'll ask this question again that's often stylishly ignored:
Is it impossible for God to simultaneously and concurrently be, in Heaven and earth, at any moment of time?

That Isaiah 9:6 above aside, one really ought to, at least and for a start,
be asking oneself the following questions:
#1 Why did the God, need to become, God, the Father?
#2 Why did God, need to become, God, the Son?
#3 Why did God, stick to this human being means and following these protocols?

Well the phrase "Holy Trinity" is a misnomer
as it is suggesting an idea that is obviously wrong

God, the Living, Intelligent, Omnipresent, Self-Existing, All-Powerful, Authority, Influence being, cant be boxed up.

Part of the absurdity of the theological shenanigans so far presented on this thread, is the aspect of pigeonholing God into trinity
People wishing and trying their hardest best to pigeonhole God
It actually is imposing restrictions on God's activities or freedom, to be what He wishes to be

For crying out loud, God is not limited to 3 persons
because, God is ''I AM THAT I AM'', ''I SHALL BE THAT I SHALL'', ''I WILL BE THAT I BE''
so, since God is, not-known-number-of persons
God, then, is, x-persons
God, in effect is, ∞-persons

Adam, Noah, the patriarchs, the Israelites etcetera didnt know God, as a Father, as a Son
The realisation or knowledge of God being a Father and being a Son, came with the advent of Jesus

Who knows what other person(s), during the passage of time, God will also reveal Himself to be

cc pressplay411 OneJ johnw47 Maamin Shelumiel Perfectbeing

Well said sir.
God is infinite beyond what We could ever know.
But in our Walk of Faith, it helps to understand the 3 personalities of His manifestation so far, to His chosen people.
This knowledge makes sharing the Prayer of Grace all the more real to us.

The Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ,
The Love of God,
And the Fellowship of the Holyspirit,
Be with us now and for ever. Amen.

God is God and the Word John 1:1
Yahovah
Psa 89:9 Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them.
Jesus
Mar 4:39 And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.

Food for thought.

Who do you worship/serve/pray to?
God?
Jesus?
God and Jesus? OR
God through Jesus?


Please these questions are meant for Christians only.

Perfectbeing:


Where do you have your problem in bro?

My question is there at the bold..

My question now is in revelations

Two thrones were mentioned
That of God and that of the lamb..none for the holy spirit. How do we add this up as well to arrive at this very trinity doctrine

Revelation 7:10
And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

Revelation 21:22
I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Revelation 11:15
…“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord [God] and of his Christ [Jesus], and he will reign for ever and ever.”

Revelation 22:1
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Revelation 5:13
…“To him who sits on the throne [God] and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”

I feel something is missing out in this triniterian teaching that makes it unacceptable.

Perfectbeing:


noted sir.. But you got my message right?

I insist you go back and also give me definite answers, in fact I have made it so easy for you to give a YES or NO answer.

Maamin:
Shelumiel


Jesus did not say he is Yahweh the father, easy with the false accusation of Jesus Oga!
You are not different from the Jews who misunderstood him.

Just before that very John 10:30 you quoted
Jesus said in John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.



May be this verse will make you understand what he meant by 'one' with the father.

John 17:21-23
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one ; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

I believe these verses are not in anyway saying that Jesus disciples and his followers are the same as the person of Yahweh?



It is clear that the Jews misunderstood Jesus which was the reason for them to want to stone Him. He only said he is the Son of God the father, and you should notice him use the word 'father' in replying them. The Jews don't believe in God to beget, it's like a heresy to them. It's new and strange to them. So for someone to be Son of God to them meant the person claimed to be God.



Your misconception is still the same through out.

Is Jesus God? Yes
Is Jesus God the father? No
Does Jesus have a God above him? Yes

Yahweh the father is all in all, Greater than all and God to all. There is none like him.

. God bless u.

solite3:
was there anything made without the word?

Was there anything made without the ONE whom the WORd proceeds from?

Perfectbeing:


When I say king David throne is literal I meant the literal king David (the one that ruled after king Saul and before king Solomon . I should have used king Saul instead of David.

But you get my point now right?

My question was directed to the two thrones mentioned in revelations. When you've answered that, that will bring us back to the literal throne of David. I'm waiting

adelee777:

. God bless u.

Read it and weep:
Jesus says, "I and the Father are one" John 10:30
Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered, Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?"( John 14:8, 9) . Why do I claim that Jesus is God (come in the flesh)? I did not invent this idea, Jesus Himself is the one who makes this claim, over and over(I already gave the verses ). As for me ,I accept His Word And if you disagree, then you disagree with Jesus and what He says. Shalom.

MuttleyLaff:
For unto us a Child is born,
unto us a Son is given:
and the government shall be upon His shoulder:
and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God,
The everlasting Father,
The Prince of Peace.
- Isaiah 9:6

I'll ask this question again that's often stylishly ignored:
Is it impossible for God to simultaneously and concurrently be, in Heaven and earth, at any moment of time?

That Isaiah 9:6 above aside, one really ought to, at least and for a start,
be asking oneself the following questions:
#1 Why did the God, need to become, God, the Father?
#2 Why did God, need to become, God, the Son?
#3 Why did God, stick to this human being means and following these protocols?

Well the phrase "Holy Trinity" is a misnomer
as it is suggesting an idea that is obviously wrong

God, the Living, Intelligent, Omnipresent, Self-Existing, All-Powerful, Authority, Influence being, cant be boxed up.

Part of the absurdity of the theological shenanigans so far presented on this thread, is the aspect of pigeonholing God into trinity
People wishing and trying their hardest best to pigeonhole God
It actually is imposing restrictions on God's activities or freedom, to be what He wishes to be

For crying out loud, God is not limited to 3 persons
because, God is ''I AM THAT I AM'', ''I SHALL BE THAT I SHALL'', ''I WILL BE THAT I BE''
so, since God is, not-known-number-of persons
God, then, is, x-persons
God, in effect is, ∞-persons

Adam, Noah, the patriarchs, the Israelites etcetera didnt know God, as a Father, as a Son
The realisation or knowledge of God being a Father and being a Son, came with the advent of Jesus

Who knows what other person(s), during the passage of time, God will also reveal Himself to be

cc pressplay411 OneJ johnw47 Maamin Shelumiel Perfectbeing

To answer your question God can be anywhere at anytime through the power of his holy spirit that fills up or inhabit the worlds even as deep as eternity.

The funny thing is how the third party in the trinity is less talked about or completely and stylishly left out in the heat of conversation.

Trinity remains a false and pagan concept.

We shall know the truth and the truth shall set us free indeed.

Shalom aleikhem

adelee777:

. God bless u.

Amen and bless you too sir

Continuation from my previous questions to Christians only.

For those that say Jesus is a Mighty God but not the Almighty God, what you mean exactly is that there are more than one God in heaven (since Jesus is from heaven). The first one is the Almighty God, in other words, the greater God. And the second is the Mighty God, in other words the lesser god. (some said Jesus is not God but a god. they translate John 1:1 as... and the word was a god) Same goes for you guys too..

Lets look at the first three commandments.

Exodus 20:1-5
And God spake all these words, saying,
I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
1st comm: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2nd comm: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
3rd comm: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

In the first commandment, the Almighty God (Yahweh) said we should have no other god (or mighty God) except Him. So if Isa 9:6 was talking about another mighty God and not the Almighty God Himself, it is either God is introducing us to another god that would save mankind making him a confused God or the Bible contradicts itself.

In the 2nd commandent, God warns against creating for ourselves, a graven image or likeness of anything in the heavens. And in the 3rd commandments we are told not to bow to them or serve them or worship them or pray to/ through them. (Don't tell me you don't see worship or pray written there. You can't serve what you don't worship and you don't pray to/through what you don't serve)
One thing we (or most Christians) agree on (whether trinitarians or not) is that Jesus (who some call a god or a mighty God) comes from heaven same as God almighty. If these two Gods (almighty God and mighty God) are not the same, then the second commandment must be flawed since Alright God warns us not to bow down or worship or serve another God or the likeness of another God. Or God is confused here too.

Also in Isa 9:6, Jesus is called an everlasting Father and in Isaiah 40:28 God is called the everlasting God... Unless you mean the everlasting Father and the everlasting God are two different Beings, then I don't know what you mean.

Maamin:


My question is there at the bold..

My question now is in revelations

Two thrones were mentioned
That of God and that of the lamb..none for the holy spirit. How do we add this up as well to arrive at this very trinity doctrine

Revelation 7:10
And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

Revelation 21:22
I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Revelation 11:15
…“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord [God] and of his Christ [Jesus], and he will reign for ever and ever.”

Revelation 22:1
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Revelation 5:13
…“To him who sits on the throne [God] and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”

I feel something is missing out in this triniterian teaching that makes it unacceptable.

in other words God and Father and God the son as been established but God the Holy Spirit have not. Is this what you mean to say

Maamin:


I insist you go back and also give me definite answers, in fact I have made it so easy for you to give a YES or NO answer.

I've given you my answer sir. I told you I can't give you a definite answer.

But then, you got my message right?

Perfectbeing:


in other words God the Father and God the son Son of God as been established but God the Holy Spirit have not. Is this what you mean to say

Yes or is the Holy spirit not coequal enough to have HIS own throne?

Maamin:


Was there anything made without the ONE whom the WORd proceeds from?

God is eternal, everlasting, has no beginning, and has no end. Everything that comes from God is eternal, everlasting, has no beginning, and has no end. The Word (Jesus) comes from God. The Word (Jesus) is eternal, everlasting, has no beginning and has no end.

A lion begets a lion. The parent lion is not eternal, everlasting. It has beginning, it has an end. So is the baby lion.

We humans, we are begotten from our papa and mama. Our parents are not eternal or everlasting, they have beginnings and they have ends. We are not eternal or everlasting, we have beginnings and we have ends.

Jesus is begotten from God. He is God's begotten son (John 3:16). That is, He is from God Himself. And anything that is from God (begotten from God) (in this case, Jesus) is eternal, everlasting, has no beginning and has no end.
Jesus shares God's DNA (permit me to use scientific terms).
God DNA is eternal, everlasting, no beginning, no end.


The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. God is eternal, everlasting, has no beginning, and has no end. His Spirit is eternal, everlasting, has no beginning, and has no end.


In summary, Jesus is God.

I call you blessed.

Maamin:


My question was directed to the two thrones mentioned in revelations. When you've answered that, that will bring us back to the literal throne of David. I'm waiting

sorry for that. I though you misinterpreted me

Maamin:


To answer your question God can be anywhere at anytime through the power of his holy spirit that fills up or inhabit the worlds even as deep as eternity.

The funny thing is how the third party in the trinity is less talked about or completely and stylishly left out in the heat of conversation.

Trinity remains a false and pagan concept.

We shall know the truth and the truth shall set us free indeed.

Shalom aleikhem

And who is this truth that we shall know and set us free if not Jesus the Truth.

I'm coming to the Holy Spirit. I cannot start talking about the Holy Spirit when we still haven't agree about the son and the father. it will only bring in more confusion.

I call you blessed..

Perfectbeing:


I've given you my answer sir. I told you I can't give you a definite answer.

But then, you got my message right?

Why did you ask of something of someone when you cant give that, when the same is ask of you?

Be a good Christian brother.

I must answer your questions how you want but you will answer mine how you want hun? Only those with ulterior motive do that.

Fine.

I will try as much as possible to give your questions more comprehensive answers by the Grace of God.

Maamin:

Yes or is the Holy spirit not coequal enough to have HIS own throne?

I'm coming to that sir.

Maamin:


Why did you ask of something of someone when you cant give that, when the same is ask of you?

Be a good Christian brother.

I must answer your questions how you want but you will answer mine how you want hun? Only those with ulterior motive do that.

Fine.

I will try as much as possible to give your questions more comprehensive answers by the Grace of God.

Fine. I apologize for that. It was immature of me.

Perfectbeing:


And who is this truth that we shall know and set us free if not Jesus the Truth.

I'm coming to the Holy Spirit. I cannot start talking about the Holy Spirit when we still haven't agree about the son and the father. it will only bring in more confusion.

I call you blessed..

No sir, the Trinity Coequality of father, Son and Holy spirit goes together, none should be left out at any point please.

Verily Verily as you have said Jesus is the truth, knowing him is knowing God the father. But sadly triniterians know 3 in 1.

Maamin:


No sir, the Trinity Coequality of father, Son and Holy spirit goes together, none should be left out at any point please.

Verily Verily as you have said Jesus is the truth, knowing him is knowing God the father. But sadly triniterians know 3 in 1.

The Holy Spirit is not a vague or an impersonal force. He is a person equal in every way with God the Father and God the Son. He is considered to be the third member of the Godhead. Jesus said to His apostles...
"All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And all the divine attributes ascribed to the Father and the Son are equally ascribed to the Holy Spirit. When a person becomes born again by believing and receiving Jesus Christ, God resides in that person through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit has intellect, emotion, and will.

A primary role of the Holy Spirit is that He bears "witness" of Jesus Christ. He tells people's hearts about the truth of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit also acts as a Christian's teacher. He reveals God's will and God's truth to a Christian. Jesus told His disciples...
"The Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."
"When He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak (just Jesus does the will of the father) ; and He will disclose to you what is to come."
The Holy Spirit was given to live inside those who believe in Jesus, in order to produce God's character in the life of a believer. In a way that we cannot do on our own, the Holy Spirit will build into our lives love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Rather than trying to be loving, patient, kind, God asks us to rely on Him to produce these qualities in our lives. Thus Christians are told to walk in the Spirit and be filled with the Spirit. And the Holy Spirit empowers Christians to perform ministerial duties that promote spiritual growth among Christians.
The Holy Spirit also performs a function for non-Christians as well. He convicts people's hearts of God's truth concerning how sinful we are needing God's forgiveness; how righteous Jesus is -- He died in our place, for our sins; and God's eventual judgment of the world and those who do not know Him. The Holy Spirit tugs on our hearts and minds, asking us to repent and turn to God for forgiveness and a new life.

Perfectbeing:


Sir,
in verse 33, for you a mere man, claim to be God. Letter G was in capital letter. the translator uses capital G to signify Yahweh

34. is it not written in your law, i have said are you not gods. Here letter G is in lower case. It doesn't signify Yahweh.
thank you.

And to the person that said God should be replaced with Yahweh, I want to replace God with Yahweh in verse, 33. You a mere man claim to be Yahweh..

What is this one saying ?

Is there capital and small letter distinction in the Greek language the bible was written ?

Mr , answer me : Do you believe humans are GODS since God say so ?

Perfectbeing:


The Holy Spirit is not a vague or an impersonal force. He is a person equal in every way with God the Father and God the Son. He is considered to be the third member of the Godhead. Jesus said to His apostles...
"All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And all the divine attributes ascribed to the Father and the Son are equally ascribed to the Holy Spirit. When a person becomes born again by believing and receiving Jesus Christ, God resides in that person through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit has intellect, emotion, and will.

A primary role of the Holy Spirit is that He bears "witness" of Jesus Christ. He tells people's hearts about the truth of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit also acts as a Christian's teacher. He reveals God's will and God's truth to a Christian. Jesus told His disciples...
"The Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."
"When He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak (just Jesus does the will of the father) ; and He will disclose to you what is to come."
The Holy Spirit was given to live inside those who believe in Jesus, in order to produce God's character in the life of a believer. In a way that we cannot do on our own, the Holy Spirit will build into our lives love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Rather than trying to be loving, patient, kind, God asks us to rely on Him to produce these qualities in our lives. Thus Christians are told to walk in the Spirit and be filled with the Spirit. And the Holy Spirit empowers Christians to perform ministerial duties that promote spiritual growth among Christians.
The Holy Spirit also performs a function for non-Christians as well. He convicts people's hearts of God's truth concerning how sinful we are needing God's forgiveness; how righteous Jesus is -- He died in our place, for our sins; and God's eventual judgment of the world and those who do not know Him. The Holy Spirit tugs on our hearts and minds, asking us to repent and turn to God for forgiveness and a new life.

The same holy spirit that was shared among Moses and other 70 men ? Person indeed


Answer this: if the hplyspirit is a person, Why didn't Jesus include it when he mentioned every personality that exist at Matthew 24:36, he isn't one ? Why don't the holyspirit know the time and day ?

Maamin:


To answer your question God can be anywhere at anytime through the power of his holy spirit that fills up or inhabit the worlds even as deep as eternity.

The funny thing is how the third party in the trinity is less talked about or completely and stylishly left out in the heat of conversation.

Trinity remains a false and pagan concept.

We shall know the truth and the truth shall set us free indeed.

Shalom aleikhem

Just saw this..

You said God can be anywhere at anytime through the power of His Holy Spirit. Is 'His ' Holy Spirit 'The' Holy Spirit?

Shelumiel:
Read it and weep:
Jesus says, "I and the Father are one" John 10:30
Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered, Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?"( John 14:8, 9) . Why do I claim that Jesus is God (come in the flesh)? I did not invent this idea, Jesus Himself is the one who makes this claim, over and over(I already gave the verses ). As for me ,I accept His Word And if you disagree, then you disagree with Jesus and what He says. Shalom.

Do you accept his word here too ?

Father is greater than I .. You mean myself is greater than myself since Jesus is the Father ?

John 5:37 Jesus was speaking, Yet he said none of the people have ever heard his Father voice . hahaha , Then explain this Bruh ?