Nnamz:
I think I get what this guy has been trying to say and I'm sure I'm not the only one he has made to seriously consider the benefits of tbills. At first I was very skeptical about him like "what is this ode coming here to say na" but now I'm even thankful to him.

A user here ^ ^ just shared his experience of "investing" 15mN, which later grew to 31mN. Funny thing is that even with the over 16mN interest, he still lost about 12,500 Dollars. Now keep in mind that he would have been better off if he had kept his 15mN in a dorm account. But he didn't cause the 15-18% interest rate at that time was sweating his body.

This guy has brought up a very thought provoking valid solid point and if you're wise, you would see reason with him. Treasury Bill's [/b]WILL MAKE YOU POOR[b].

As for me, I won't cancel any of my current tbills. But moving on, no more tbills of 675,000 Naira every two weeks. I will save my money in a dorm account. And in 5 years time when the US-Naira exchange rate is at say 600 to the dollar, those of you doing tbills, let me know if you are richer than me. A WORD IS ENOUGH FOR THE WISE.

And thanks to that guy who opened some eyes on this forum. You sir are the real MVP

ahiboilandgas:
in 2012 I had around 15m in tb that was around 100 k dollars In 2017 it grew to 31.5m naira suprisely it now 87500 dollars I lost 12500 dollar .3.6m by investing in treasury bills if I had know I would have kept my 100 k dollars In dorm accounts and sell when naira reach 500 I could have made 50m ...the naira has refuse to go back 152 for my money to be equal to 200k dollar and their is no hope ....cos of this I open a dorm account to always keep some interest from tb in dollar.....my people this is the reason osinbajo has 900 thousand pounds in his asset declaration and why MRS Jonathan has a huge dollar account....u think they don't know treasury bill.....best step is open a dorm account keep some interest from tb their to reduce devaluation risk....if u know u know

hias2012:


Good analogy. Good to diversify,and well done folks. But what none has hinted is at what "time" one converts his/her dollars to Naira in order to make profit. In 2016 when the exchange rate skyrocketed was partly because of scarcity of dollars. Banks put a cap on how much dollars you could spend off your dorm account whilst abroad. For the most part, withdrawing in Nigeria wasn't even as easy as the banks cried they didn't have dollars to issue out. I guess this was the case whether you wanted to buy off the counter or withdraw from your dorm account. Hence the black market rate headed far North. And this is the reason people matained warehouses and Ikoyi flats as their dorm account for easy access.When we analyse it's good we highlight the pros and cons. The reason majority invest in TB is because they are sure of their rates, interest and capital and the "time". If you stack your dorm account, which is good, but who says or knows when exchange rate would go again far up and juicy enough at which point you decide to sell? This is not known by anyone. We've probably had like the 2016 experience twice since 1999 or thereabout. Many people died while waiting.

That said the second issue is that everybody is not the same. Some are more risk adverse than others. Some would dare the risk with the hopes of higher returns, and we know that only a percentage of this actually make their money - make it big while others lose evrything or die due to hypertension. But those who like it small, and are careful investing in zero-risk ventures are free from the above hassles, they ALL make their money albeith surely and steadily.

The third is that it is not TB rate that determines inflation rate but the reverse. Hence the fluctuation. So those praying for higher TB rate should know. Higher inflation, higher TB rate and we actually don't pray for this. We pray intlation rates keep going down. So if you have money and you don't know the sure profitable business or venture to invest in, keep investing in TB. However, make sure you don't eat all the interest, make sure part of it is reinvested otherwise with rising inflation the actual worth of your money is reducing over time if you EAT all the interest.

So far all the analysis make a good read for me, and this forum has to be lively to educate and as well to thrill.

Agbaletu:

Please can you name one or two financial firms that offer fixed deposit service in foreign currencies?

jidobaba:
You people have effectively discouraged people from investing in this week's TBills auction!
Some people already wrote and scanned instructions waiting to send to their banks but are now instead looking for land to buy in developing areas...

jidobaba:
You people have effectively discouraged people from investing in this week's TBills auction!
Some people already wrote and scanned instructions waiting to send to their banks but are now instead looking for land to buy in developing areas...

zamirikpo:


Nooo...... that means they don't get the gist. I will invest in December sef.... no one is saying don't invest in tb ,we are only saying TB is a means to an end not the end in itself.

Mfunkynation:
just drop my 364 days tenor bid @ FBN.... God bless my legal hussle...

GonFreecss1:


Hope you know the higher the interest rates returns on Tbills, that implies more risk? This is basic finance. Doesn't matter what country or continent, the laws of demand and supply will always apply to anything.

Why do you all think Tbills was very high 2016 and last year? Why is it lower now?

zamirikpo:


Remember how this arguement started, let's wish naija well , I mentioned Greece and Venezuela just to remind us that countries do go bankrupt.

jpphilips:


I have no interest in discussing the rudiments but dynamics, high interest rate means higher risk of default, that is a valid economic theory, however, when you domesticate it, you will realize it is not as straight forward as you think.
High interest rate means future expenditure for the state, if the state's earnings increase within the period (always does except for few years ago), that risk becomes inconsequential, the only down side is that it robs the government the liquidity for capital projects and creates other budgetary pressures, default doesn't come in.
The state has a way of creating equilibrium in those things, increase taxation, dispose assets, shrink budget like we just saw in the 2019 budget etc. its all about earning, once you earn enough, you can always repay your debts.
Lastly, some debts are left in a cycle that never ends, that's the reality of running a nation, a state doesn't run like a company where economic indices are cast in stone, just follow the dynamics.

jpphilips:


I understand your view, is Nigeria going Bankrupt? if No, then Greece has no bearing in the discourse.

GonFreecss1:


I am wondering, did you ever see me say "do not buy Tbills?"

This is why I dislike advising Nigerians. They become hostile towards the truth. The same reason why the country is in shambles today.

I just stated some facts about what we are all putting our money in, me included. Also the importance about hedging and the risk of higher rates, inflation and not considering buying power.

Tell me, are we only to come here to discuss how good 16/18% rates are good? How we are becoming richer? Without understanding anything about Tbills? Or factors that affect rates? Or why higher rates should make you scared? It's almost like investing in something and expecting more returns without understanding the implications or why there should be more returns.

I am sorry for saying the truth about our safe investment, Tbills. I am sorry for trying to make people understand money more. I am sorry for saying anything at all in the first place. I can see I might be the enemy to so many people's dreams of becoming rich through Tbills, I apologize.

hias2012:


Good analogy. Good to diversify,and well done folks. But what none has hinted is at what "time" one converts his/her dollars to Naira in order to make profit. In 2016 when the exchange rate skyrocketed was partly because of scarcity of dollars. Banks put a cap on how much dollars you could spend off your dorm account whilst abroad. For the most part, withdrawing in Nigeria wasn't even as easy as the banks cried they didn't have dollars to issue out. I guess this was the case whether you wanted to buy off the counter or withdraw from your dorm account. Hence the black market rate headed far North. And this is the reason people matained warehouses and Ikoyi flats as their dorm account for easy access.When we analyse it's good we highlight the pros and cons. The reason majority invest in TB is because they are sure of their rates, interest and capital and the "time". If you stack your dorm account, which is good, but who says or knows when exchange rate would go again far up and juicy enough at which point you decide to sell? This is not known by anyone. We've probably had like the 2016 experience twice since 1999 or thereabout. Many people died while waiting.

That said the second issue is that everybody is not the same. Some are more risk adverse than others. Some would dare the risk with the hopes of higher returns, and we know that only a percentage of this actually make their money - make it big while others lose evrything or die due to hypertension. But those who like it small, and are careful investing in zero-risk ventures are free from the above hassles, they ALL make their money albeith surely and steadily.

The third is that it is not TB rate that determines inflation rate but the reverse. Hence the fluctuation. So those praying for higher TB rate should know. Higher inflation, higher TB rate and we actually don't pray for this. We pray intlation rates keep going down. So if you have money and you don't know the sure profitable business or venture to invest in, keep investing in TB. However, make sure you don't eat all the interest, make sure part of it is reinvested otherwise with rising inflation the actual worth of your money is reducing over time if you EAT all the interest.

So far all the analysis make a good read for me, and this forum has to be lively to educate and as well to thrill.

Anatech:


So what so you advice us to do?

hias2012:


Good analogy. Good to diversify,and well done folks. But what none has hinted is at what "time" one converts his/her dollars to Naira in order to make profit. In 2016 when the exchange rate skyrocketed was partly because of scarcity of dollars. Banks put a cap on how much dollars you could spend off your dorm account whilst abroad. For the most part, withdrawing in Nigeria wasn't even as easy as the banks cried they didn't have dollars to issue out. I guess this was the case whether you wanted to buy off the counter or withdraw from your dorm account. Hence the black market rate headed far North. And this is the reason people matained warehouses and Ikoyi flats as their dorm account for easy access.When we analyse it's good we highlight the pros and cons. The reason majority invest in TB is because they are sure of their rates, interest and capital and the "time". If you stack your dorm account, which is good, but who says or knows when exchange rate would go again far up and juicy enough at which point you decide to sell? This is not known by anyone. We've probably had like the 2016 experience twice since 1999 or thereabout. Many people died while waiting.

That said the second issue is that everybody is not the same. Some are more risk adverse than others. Some would dare the risk with the hopes of higher returns, and we know that only a percentage of this actually make their money - make it big while others lose evrything or die due to hypertension. But those who like it small, and are careful investing in zero-risk ventures are free from the above hassles, they ALL make their money albeith surely and steadily.

The third is that it is not TB rate that determines inflation rate but the reverse. Hence the fluctuation. So those praying for higher TB rate should know. Higher inflation, higher TB rate and we actually don't pray for this. We pray intlation rates keep going down. So if you have money and you don't know the sure profitable business or venture to invest in, keep investing in TB. However, make sure you don't eat all the interest, make sure part of it is reinvested otherwise with rising inflation the actual worth of your money is reducing over time if you EAT all the interest.

So far all the analysis make a good read for me, and this forum has to be lively to educate and as well to thrill.

dotcomnamename:


Yepahhhhh see knowledge... No issue based conversations with single narrative replaced with emotions and personal opinion. Honestly we need people like you here and on MF's thread.

Mama Nkechi, please give this man two cold bottles of Big Stout and a plate of Nkwobi. God bless you jare.. That's it but watch the indomie generations masturbating on this again. Just watch.

freeman67:
Most times people's comparison comes only from where they see gain forgetting that irrespective of the fact that everybody interest is to make gain, sometime you loose too... Also gain and loss is dependent on when you are no longer holding the investment again ie when disposed off..

Why some people may see TB as the only form of investment there know, I believe majority here does it just to keep money above inflation. Also some do it to in place of something better than savings or fixed deposit. That said, we have heard from the man who exchanged Dollar and invested in NTB when the exchange rate was low and now could not get back the same sum if exchanged back to Dollar even when he had made a significant gain in Naira. Has anybody heard from those who bought Dollar in 2015 at the rate of N480- N500 believing it was going to N900-N1,000? What will be their fate if they need money now and want to convert?

Yes some bought land and it appreciated, have you thought about those that bought in some place based on particular news anticipating it was going to get high and people are still pricing below the cost price..?

In stock market back then some people bought GTB share and some bought intercontinental bank shares.. There was a time when intercontinental bank shareholders think they had something valuable but now the thinking is not same whereas the GTB shareholders are still enjoying their investment.
So there is always two ways to it. Its not always a one smooth way.

Even for the Bitcoin Advocates I believe there were some people who bought when it skyrocketed back then thinking it was always going higher before it came down.. Lots of those are sitting on losses now... If there are to convert it now.


For those wanting to invest in Diamond Bank should watch it ooo even though the CBN guarantees depositors funds.. I personally do not fancy doing business with mismanaged company.

freeman67:
Most times people's comparison comes only from where they see gain forgetting that irrespective of the fact that everybody interest is to make gain, sometime you loose too... Also gain and loss is dependent on when you are no longer holding the investment again ie when disposed off..

Why some people may see TB as the only form of investment there know, I believe majority here does it just to keep money above inflation. Also some do it to in place of something better than savings or fixed deposit. That said, we have heard from the man who exchanged Dollar and invested in NTB when the exchange rate was low and now could not get back the same sum if exchanged back to Dollar even when he had made a significant gain in Naira. Has anybody heard from those who bought Dollar in 2015 at the rate of N480- N500 believing it was going to N900-N1,000? What will be their fate if they need money now and want to convert?

Yes some bought land and it appreciated, have you thought about those that bought in some place based on particular news anticipating it was going to get high and people are still pricing below the cost price..?

In stock market back then some people bought GTB share and some bought intercontinental bank shares.. There was a time when intercontinental bank shareholders think they had something valuable but now the thinking is not same whereas the GTB shareholders are still enjoying their investment.
So there is always two ways to it. Its not always a one smooth way.

Even for the Bitcoin Advocates I believe there were some people who bought when it skyrocketed back then thinking it was always going higher before it came down.. Lots of those are sitting on losses now... If there are to convert it now.


For those wanting to invest in Diamond Bank should watch it ooo even though the CBN guarantees depositors funds.. I personally do not fancy doing business with mismanaged company.

ahiboilandgas:
imf already warning Nigeria 50 percent income used to pay up debt

jpphilips:


Does a 50:50 debt to income ratio mean default? what do you think will happen when income increases?

ahiboilandgas:
what will happen if income decrease...crude becoming irrelevant like coal...

zinaunreal:
Every investment has a margin of risk, nobody should come here and act like a sooth sayer. Even some of the best brains who have risen to greats heights have lost it all due to miscalculation or over sabi. Just dont invest what you cant afford to loose. Thats my candid advice

jpphilips:


Though you didn't answer my question, I will answer yours, if income decreases, the state will dispose off its assets to raise money, next will be to cut budgets and subsidies eventually increasing taxes, all cards are on the table.
About crude becoming irrelevant like coal, that must be a joke in this particular scenario, have you wondered how Nigeria made the paradigm shift from coal to crude?
now answer my question, what happens when income increases?