Perfectbeing:

Truer words have never been spoken..

I'm sure that there are even truer words in the Bible, friend. But thank you kindly for your kind words.

Ihedinobi3:


I agree that denominations and sects of all kinds base their beliefs on interpretations of religious texts that they favor. In what way however have I carved out a special category for Christianity and how does this category not hold true?

Good@bolded, so why did you exclude jehovahs witnesses based on their view of eternity that I pointed out was against what you posted? Cherry picking?

I'm afraid you have not made your argument any clearer to me. I do not see what relationship faith has to subjective interpretation of texts. Also, please explain how exactly the Bible promotes blind faith.

That's easy, as a faith based text it is read subjectively and without any objective guide to follow, these subjective views evolve into denominations that hold conflicting views. Like yours.

davien:
Good@bolded, so why did you exclude jehovahs witnesses based on their view of eternity that I pointed out was against what you posted? Cherry picking?

That's easy, as a faith based text it is read subjectively and without any objective guide to follow, these subjective views evolve into denominations that hold conflicting views. Like you.

Which is why must exist arbiters and gatekeepers of the knowledge of god, who are the authorities on the true Christian teaching because the so called all wise god doesn't know how to properly communicate a single correct interpretation of its own words to all.

I don't know how people fail to see this basic contradiction.

LordReed:


Which is why must exist arbiters and gatekeepers of the knowledge of god, who are the authorities on the true Christian teaching because the so called all wise god doesn't know how to properly communicate a single correct interpretation of its own words to all.

I don't know how people fail to see this basic contradiction.

Lol, how would they? Most people who believe and ignore the contradiction are greedily expecting something in return for believing something outrageous..

If you can believe a man walked on water 2000 years ago and some other outrageous feats, you can greedily await riches, an afterlife to live again and any other thing you believe you'll get.. An investment built on hope and fuel by your time, effort and money.

davien:
Good@bolded, so why did you exclude jehovahs witnesses based on their view of eternity that I pointed out was against what you posted? Cherry picking?

Not cherry picking, just keeping in mind that all interpretations are not necessarily legitimate or truly representative of any given faith or belief or text or philosophy. Why do you think they are?

davien:
That's easy, as a faith based text it is read subjectively and without any objective guide to follow, these subjective views evolve into denominations that hold conflicting views. Like yours.

That makes less sense than you seem to me to believe that it does. You have only repeated what you said before. I asked why the above is to be believed. Why does the requirement for faith translate to subjective interpretations? Let me explain: is it a matter of subjective interpretation whether a given chair will hold your weight when you see it for the first time?

davien:
Lol, how would they? Most people who believe and ignore the contradiction are greedily expecting something in return for believing something outrageous..

If you can believe a man walked on water 2000 years ago and some other outrageous feats, you can greedily await riches, an afterlife to live again and any other thing you believe you'll get.. An investment built on hope and fuel by your timte, effort and money.

But why does this bother you so much? If I greedily believe something foolish to my own ruin in this life, what does that have to do with you?

Ihedinobi3:

Not cherry picking, just keeping in mind that all interpretations are not necessarily legitimate or truly representative of any given faith or belief or text or philosophy. Why do you think they are?

You haven't answered why you believed your interpretation of eternity to be correct.. Don't sweep it under the rug.

That makes less sense than you seem to me to believe that it does. You have only repeated what you said before. I asked why the above is to be believed. Why does the requirement for faith translate to subjective interpretations? Let me explain: is it a matter of subjective interpretation whether a given chair will hold your weight when you see it for the first time?

Nice analogy..

I couldn't say if I saw a chair for the first time(ever) if it would hold my weight, but by having known what chairs are, their properties and a history of me having sat on chairs, I can make a fair assessment if it would and what to do if it couldn't hold my full weight.

See one needs to have had an objective overview or facts to make educated assessments that are rational, else you'd be making an unsupported opinion that's no better than anyone else's.

If you apply that to something believed without evidence or any merit like faith, to what it's saying to be true, you would merely be pushing ideas you believe or have interpreted without any standing if it were the right one along with everyone else who'd be left doing the same as they would also have nothing to substantiate their claims.

Ihedinobi3:

But why does this bother you so much? If I greedily believe something foolish to my own ruin in this life, what does that have to do with you?

Sir, don't you think that you're feeding the trolls?

I believe there's nothing you'll say that will make them change their minds.. Perhaps due to their unbelief they've given themselves a reprobate heart.

I think you should let them be (at least for now) and let the seed you planted in their hearts be left to grow..

davien:
Lol, how would they? Most people who believe and ignore the contradiction are greedily expecting something in return for believing something outrageous..

If you can believe a man walked on water 2000 years ago and some other outrageous feats, you can greedily await riches, an afterlife to live again and any other thing you believe you'll get.. An investment built on hope and fuel by your time, effort and money.

I promise even when I was a Christian the thing bothered me and even "the devil did it" explanations didn't resolve it for me.

But you are correct the hope of mansions, streets paved with gold and riches untold can be blinding, not to talk of the threat of eternal punishment. Its the afterlife version of the American dream. LoL

Perfectbeing:


Sir, don't you think that you're feeding the trolls?

I believe there's nothing you'll say that will make them change their minds.. Perhaps due to their unbelief they've given themselves a reprobate heart.

I think you should let them be (at least for now) and let the seed you planted in their hearts be left to grow..

LoL. Seed of what? Confused Christian rhetoric and apologetics? LMFAO!

Ihedinobi3:

But why does this bother you so much? If I greedily believe something foolish to my own ruin in this life, what does that have to do with you?

Good question, ideas are not a self contained bubble, they influence your actions, your behavior and how you react to the society as a whole..

Believers of this ideas like to hold themselves to a standard, that theirs is the correct if not most accurate way of life and that the society as a whole should tailor itself to the teachings, taboos and customs of the belief..

You start seeing things like megaphones that spew opinions in public places, sharing ideas that nobody requested for or vouch for, like life threatening faith healing promotions like prayers or tonics to cure HIV/AIDS, blindness, infertility, etc..

Crusades that make their way into schools, businesses and organizations that aim to influence their behavior in ways that are regressive like against safe sex, varying views, abortions, etc..

And many more, it presents itself as harmless but overtly invades on everyone around it. People continually get exploited in the process.. Politician's use the favored views to win votes and pastors use them to build branch after branch and private schools the congregation can't afford to school in even though had pitched in for its establishment.

Perfectbeing:


Sir, don't you think that you're feeding the trolls?

I believe there's nothing you'll say that will make them change their minds.. Perhaps due to their unbelief they've given themselves a reprobate heart.

I think you should let them be (at least for now) and let the seed you planted in their hearts be left to grow..

Your words are good, my friend, very good indeed. It is good to recognize that these debates are not able to change any heart. That recognition is critical to dealing with unbelievers (and even believers) of all kinds.

I don't debate with them for their sake. While I genuinely hope that they will repent and turn to the Lord and be saved, my engagement with them is not primarily to bring that about. Rather, I am seeking to protect vulnerable believers from them. Through them, the devil is constantly attacking many immature believers seeking to further weaken their faith and cause them to apostatize as a number of these atheists here in their own turn did or at least to force them to become lukewarm rather than zealous for Christ (I know a few people this may have happened to as well).

Christian apologetics is a spiritual gift as well and it is not one that I embraced easily. I am by nature very impatient person with whatever I consider unreasonableness. So, I didn't want to be an apologist. Thankfully too, it is only a secondary gift in my case. I am primarily a Bible teacher by gifting. The purpose of the gift is to defend fellow believers from the lies of the enemy especially the deliberate and sophisticated ones that you find in the arguments of godless men intent on derailing the Faith of believers.

So, let your heart have cheer. This work I am doing here is for yours and the benefit of all our brothers and sisters who are attacked with lies like the many in this thread.

Ihedinobi3:

Clearly not in this particular. Both Christians and unbelievers are part of a war, only on different sides, at least in a general sense.

U have described the war u are in as a Christian, I am an unbeliever, I no war with anyone. Except if u call surviving a war.

I can't help you with seeing if you don't want to see. But it is related to it as my post itself explains. Or else you can show me how it is not.

Just to let u know there was not need for the long sermon. It wasn't even related with my post. This is what happens when one talks to much, he tends to lose focus.

I wonder where you got that.

From ur post.

Unfortunately for you, it is an essential part of my answer. Can't answer you without it.

Go on but so far, u have painted Christianity as a religion of suffering

It's up to you to show how it is not your problem. Being an atheist is already buying Satan's business. But the major problem here is that you are not content to be. You want to derail other Christians' faith too. That makes you not only a nominal member of Satan's armies but actually a particularly active one for him.

Continue with ur Christian delusion. For me, I have no idea who Satan is. He is ur baggage not mine.

I can't help you with your straw men. Certainly, being a Christian makes you a target for Satan so that he comes after you and tries to make life really hard for you. Certainly, the more seriously you take your faith in Jesus Christ, the harder Satan fights against you so that you have a harder life than most people. But nothing good to offer? Yeah, you made that up on your own.

Ya, I don't want to be target for Satan... Another reason why I should not be a Christian. Yet u have not even shown me what good being a christian has to offer... Or is constant war with Satan with nothing to show for it a good thing?

I'm quite sure you made up your own answer and tried to put it in my mouth.

Name just one good thing I stand to gain as a Christian here on earth that I am losing as an atheist... The question is simple enough. U are yet to tell me, instead u are rambling on how Christian is about war, test, suffering and hoping in afterlife.

davien:
You haven't answered why you believed your interpretation of eternity to be correct.. Don't sweep it under the rug.

Where did you ask this question and did it precede any of the several questions I have asked you already?

davien:
Nice analogy..

I couldn't say if I saw a chair for the first time(ever) if it would hold my weight, but by having known what chairs are, their properties and a history of me having sat on chairs, I can make a fair assessment if it would and what to do if it couldn't hold my full weight.

See one needs to have had an objective overview or facts to make educated assessments that are rational, else you'd be making an unsupported opinion that's no better than anyone else's.

If you apply that to something believed without evidence or any merit like faith, to what it's saying to be true, you would merely be pushing ideas you believe or have interpreted without any standing if it were the right one along with everyone else who'd be left doing the same as they would also have nothing to substantiate their claims.

First, in other words, you would believe that a chair that you have never sat on before would hold your weight on the basis of prior experience with chairs and discernible qualities of that chair, correct? Not on any interpretations offered by anybody.

There are plenty videos online that seek to entertain by attacking the ordinary common sense assumption that you just made. An appearance of a chair can be made that would essentially tell you not to bother to look any closer because, of course, it's a sturdy and at least passably comfortable chair, just look at it, right?...until you actually sit in it. Then you realize that every time you sit in a chair - even if it is one you have sat on everyday - you could be completely wrong about it, yet this has nothing to do with what other people think about a chair.

Relatedly, you really don't have much reason to believe the things you do. Because you don't know everything. You don't know if the chair was replaced with a flimsy look-alike. You don't know if perhaps some undetected insect activity had finally compromised the chair's ability. You don't know if it's only a very convincing 3D picture of a chair. But you sit anyway with all confidence that it is a chair that can and will take your weight. Evidence is not really all it is cracked up to be, my friend. Certainly not by atheists anyway.

Second, in the same way, it matters nothing how other people choose to interpret any given thing even if it is a religious text. That you believe something does not mean that it is true. That several people believe several different things about the same thing does not mean that that thing has no definite meaning of its own too irrespective of who is believing whatever. The onus really lies on you to prove that that the reverse is the case for religious texts since that would amount to special pleading even if you appeal to blind faith since we all exercise that to some degree about everything.

Third, there is probably no walk of life where people do not disagree on what things mean. Whether it is science, art, culture, music, politics, even the law, people interpret things in all kinds of ways. But correct interpretations, that is, truth, does not change. There is always a tell when the interpretation is false in some way. This is also true about Christianity. The Bible is the objective standard of Christianity. It has only one right interpretation for anything it says. If anyone offers a false interpretation of something it says, the Bible itself will expose the falsehood or error if and when it is appealed to.

Ihedinobi3:

There are probably hundreds of millions of true Christians. How many do you actually know? A hundred? A thousand?

Yes indeed and those promises will be fulfilled in a truly wonderful way in the Millennium and in Eternity too. In time, however, what we are promised is that God will always be with us in all of our troubles and He will comfort us and get us through life's myriad challenges safely if we continue to trust Him.

Indeed, but Christians who know what the Faith is about know that "our life is hid with Christ in God" and that is where our hope is and we look steadfastly up there trusting that we will be given all we need in this life to make it to the other side where all our deepest desires will be perfectly fulfilled.

Oga read ur bible, there are promises of prosperity, good health, and wealth while in earth.
Its preached in churches. I have attended redeemed, watchman, chosen, Christ embassy, living faith and these things are promised. I have listened to preachings on TV... These things are promised. Every human desires these things... Perhaps u are the only Christian I have ever met
Smh

Perfectbeing:


Sir, don't you think that you're feeding the trolls?

I believe there's nothing you'll say that will make them change their minds.. Perhaps due to their unbelief they've given themselves a reprobate heart.

I think you should let them be (at least for now) and let the seed you planted in their hearts be left to grow..

He is rambling, yet to make any sense or directly answer my question, u are talking about seed that will grow. U think we are foolish?
What meaningful thing has he said other than what we already know about Christianity.

The question is a direct one... Name just one thing u enjoy as a Christian that I don't or will never enjoy as an atheist. Name it and I will evaluate it ... I'f it makes sense , I will change my mind. Instead he is telling me how Christianity is a war... Who wants to fight war?

davien:

Good question, ideas are not a self contained bubble, they influence your actions, your behavior and how you react to the society as a whole..

Believers of this ideas like to hold themselves to a standard, that theirs is the correct if not most accurate way of life and that the society as a whole should tailor itself to the teachings, taboos and customs of the belief..

You start seeing things like megaphones that spew opinions in public places, sharing ideas that nobody requested for or vouch for, like life threatening faith healing promotions like prayers or tonics to cure HIV/AIDS, blindness, infertility, etc..

Crusades that make their way into schools, businesses and organizations that aim to influence their behavior in ways that are regressive like against safe sex, varying views, abortions, etc..

And many more, it presents itself as harmless but overtly invades on everyone around it. People continually get exploited in the process.. Politician's use the favored views to win votes and pastors use them to build branch after branch and private schools the congregation can't afford to school in even though had pitched in for its establishment.

Since I don't hold any of those views personally, I will not answer for them. What I did ask was why my own individual belief in a much better future where I will have such great benefits has anything to do with you. I have two threads on this account on Nairaland and may open more but all of them present non-invasive explanations of the Bible clearly for those who care what the Bible says. I don't present political views or arguments about social morality and behavior to other people. When I answer threads, I usually do because someone is attacking the Christian Faith somehow. So, I don't presume to control other people's behavior. So, why does what I choose to believe bother you, Davien?

About what fellow believers do irrespective of whether I approve or don't, how are you and other atheists any different. Thread after thread is opened on Nairaland ostensibly to find proof or evidence for God but in fact to harass Christians. Also, in many countries now, atheists of different hues and shades are instigating legislation that makes private practice of the Christian Faith increasingly problematic for Christians. In recent history, not only have such laws been made but Christians have been actively hunted down or hounded to death not for being a nuisance in any way but for simply believing something that others disapproved of. I refer to Communist Russia and China. And there is even more recent history in today's China.

So, when you complain of the behaviors and disapproval of Christians, what is that in comparison to the deliberate attacks on their Human Rights and freedoms and even on their lives?

Ihedinobi3:

Your words are good, my friend, very good indeed. It is good to recognize that these debates are not able to change any heart. That recognition is critical to dealing with unbelievers (and even believers) of all kinds.

I don't debate with them for their sake. While I genuinely hope that they will repent and turn to the Lord and be saved, my engagement with them is not primarily to bring that about. Rather, I am seeking to protect vulnerable believers from them. Through them, the devil is constantly attacking many immature believers seeking to further weaken their faith and cause them to apostatize as a number of these atheists here in their own turn did or at least to force them to become lukewarm rather than zealous for Christ (I know a few people this may have happened to as well).

Christian apologetics is a spiritual gift as well and it is not one that I embraced easily. I am by nature very impatient person with whatever I consider unreasonableness. So, I didn't want to be an apologist. Thankfully too, it is only a secondary gift in my case. I am primarily a Bible teacher by gifting. The purpose of the gift is to defend fellow believers from the lies of the enemy especially the deliberate and sophisticated ones that you find in the arguments of godless men intent on derailing the Faith of believers.

So, let your heart have cheer. This work I am doing here is for yours and the benefit of all our brothers and sisters who are attacked with lies like the many in this thread.

Ride on sir.

Me myself I'll continue to chip in truths that I can too to defend my faith and and belief.

May God continually grant us (you in particular) the grace and patience to teach this gospel to truth to all in readiness for his coming.
Amen.

Perfectbeing:


Ride on sir.

Me myself I'll continue to chip in truths that I can too to defend my faith and and belief.

May God continually grant us (you in particular) the grace and patience to teach this gospel to truth to all in readiness for his coming.
Amen.

Amen. Thank you so very much for your prayer, my friend. Keep fighting this good fight of our Faith. Our labors for our dear Lord are not in vain but rather will earn us a super-abundant reward in the end.

frank317:

U have described the war u are in as a Christian, I am an unbeliever, I no war with anyone. Except if u call surviving a war.

You are entitled to your opinions.

frank317:
Just to let u know there was not need for the long sermon. It wasn't even related with my post. This is what happens when one talks to much, he tends to lose focus.

That you say it wasn't related to your post does not mean that it wasn't.

frank317:
From ur post.

Where in my post?

frank317:
Go on but so far, u have painted Christianity as a religion of suffering

Suffering is a huge part of being a Christian. I already said as much. Why do you feel the need to keep repeating it?

frank317:
Continue with ur Christian delusion. For me, I have no idea who Satan is. He is ur baggage not mine.

If a blind man insists that the sun does not exist because he cannot see it, we do not then agree with him, do we?

frank317:
Ya, I don't want to be target for Satan... Another reason why I should not be a Christian. Yet u have not even shown me what good being a christian has to offer... Or is constant war with Satan with nothing to show for it a good thing?

First, from my first post until now, I have shown you. That you don't care for it is not my fault.

Second, you are the one who is claiming that there will be nothing to show for fighting this war, not me. Not sure where you got that either.

frank317:
Name just one good thing I stand to gain as a Christian here on earth that I am losing as an atheist... The question is simple enough. U are yet to tell me, instead u are rambling on how Christian is about war, test, suffering and hoping in afterlife.

Told you several times already. Not my fault that you keep ignoring it. We get God's Personal Comfort and Support, not to mention the help of the elect angels, not to mention the support of real family and friends who share our hope, not to mention all the things of this life that we need to fight well, whether it is food or water or clothes or whatever.

frank317:


Oga read ur bible, there are promises of prosperity, good health, and wealth while in earth.
Its preached in churches. I have attended redeemed, watchman, chosen, Christ embassy, living faith and these things are promised. I have listened to preachings on TV... These things are promised. Every human desires these things... Perhaps u are the only Christian I have ever met
Smh

I do but evidently I don't know which promises you refer to which apply to our life on earth before the Millennium so maybe you should just quote the parts of the Bible you are talking about.

As I have said, the fact that many believers are living contrary to what they are called to do does not mean that what they believe is what the Faith is about.

Of course we desire freedom from want and trouble and pain and loneliness etc. And God promises all that. But for now we must endure these things and stay faithful until the Lord Jesus returns and fixes everything so that we can have all that.

Ihedinobi3, if all these hide and seek techniques are necessary to defend your faith then you really need to have a rethink over it.

Ihedinobi3:

You are entitled to your opinions.

Of course... But this is something ur God fails to understand.

That you say it wasn't related to your post does not mean that it wasn't.

Lol

Where in my post?

U are telling suffering and war and test is a huge part of Christianity, what do u expect me to imply? Did u tell me one single going I stand to enjoy as a Christian that I am missing out as a Christian? Did u?

Suffering is a huge part of being a Christian. I already said as much. Why do you feel the need to keep repeating it?

I have heard now... I actually don't like suffering... In oder words Christianity is actually not favourable for me, don't u think?

If a blind man insists that the sun does not exist because he cannot see it, we do not then agree with him, do we?

If a man with vision insists that the sun is green, does that mean the sun is green? Do we all agree simply because he can see? Must we all be insane because one person is insane?

First, from my first post until now, I have shown you. That you don't care for it is not my fault.

Oga u haven't.

Second, you are the one who is claiming that there will be nothing to show for fighting this war, not me. Not sure where you got that either.

U spend ur whole life fighting war... What's there to gain?

Told you several times already. Not my fault that you keep ignoring it. We get God's Personal Comfort and Support, not to mention the help of the elect angels, not to mention the support of real family and friends who share our hope, not to mention all the things of this life that we need to fight well, whether it is food or water or clothes or whatever.

What's Gods personal comfort? Pls translate it and an show me how it helps u cope we the normal life struggle that we all face everyday... And show how I am losing out now having this comfort.
What kind of help do u get from angels... Me that don't have the help what can u do that I can't do?
Support in what from friends and family... I am a support myself to friends and family.. How does this relate with God?
This is actually the closest u have come to answering my question

Ihedinobi3:

I do but evidently I don't know which promises you refer to which apply to our life on earth before the Millennium so maybe you should just quote the parts of the Bible you are talking about.

As I have said, the fact that many believers are living contrary to what they are called to do does not mean that what they believe is what the Faith is about.

Of course we desire freedom from want and trouble and pain and loneliness etc. And God promises all that. But for now we must endure these things and stay faithful until the Lord Jesus returns and fixes everything so that we can have all that.

So u don't desire wealth, prosperity and health?

davien:
Ihedinobi3, if all these hide and seek techniques are necessary to defend your faith then you really need to have a rethink over it.

What hide-and-seek techniques? And why do you talk about defending my faith? There is a difference between defending my faith and defending my brothers and sisters. My faith is my defence.

frank317:

Of course... But this is something ur God fails to understand.

He understands it just fine. That's why He gave you a free will. You have the right to believe whatever you want. But you also have to bear what consequences come with such choices.

frank317:
U are telling suffering and war and test is a huge part of Christianity, what do u expect me to imply? Did u tell me one single going I stand to enjoy as a Christian that I am missing out as a Christian? Did u?

Like I said, I can't force you to see whatever you are determined to ignore. But I did tell you several times what Christians enjoy in this life. So, it wasn't at all in my post that you found that "if [you are] going to be a Christian, [you] shouldn't bother about a better life." We Christians suffer but that is just what happens to us because we are Christians. It is not Christianity to seek out suffering and just wallow in it. We work too so that we can provide food and clothing and shelter and spouses and families and vacations etc like everyone else. But things don't always work out for us like they do for unbelievers. And we understand that it is because we are at war. So, we don't get mad. We keep fighting forward until our Lord returns or we go home to Him where we can rest and wait for the Day when we can have perfect happiness here on Earth.

frank317:
I have heard now... I actually don't like suffering... In oder words Christianity is actually not favourable for me, don't u think?

No Christian I know likes suffering either. But we bear it. Yeah, Christianity is not for the faint-hearted.

frank317:
If a man with vision insists that the sun is green, does that mean the sun is green? Do we all agree simply because he can see? Must we all be insane because one person is insane?

The sun is obviously not green. Satan obviously exists. Or else why is life so hard?

frank317:
Oga u haven't.

Okay.

frank317:
U spend ur whole life fighting war... What's there to gain?

You mean, in addition to the obvious blessings of awesome Christian friends who stick closer than family, food, water, shelter, clothing and God's intimate attention? We get to live forever in awesome perfect bodies that shine like stars and in a perfect universe that we can explore at will with God living on Earth with us and angels hanging out with us too. It's enough to blow one's mind.

frank317:
What's Gods personal comfort? Pls translate it and an show me how it helps u cope we the normal life struggle that we all face everyday... And show how I am losing out now having this comfort.
What kind of help do u get from angels... Me that don't have the help what can u do that I can't do?
Support in what from friends and family... I am a support myself to friends and family.. How does this relate with God?
This is actually the closest u have come to answering my question

I'm sure you cannot have this Comfort and appreciate it. After all, God can hardly be comforting an active enemy of His, right? But you'll feel His absence whenever you decide to try to live right and be good. Life won't be so nice then without Him. You'll find life much more pleasant when you act like a law unto yourself than when you actually try to live right.

frank317:


So u don't desire wealth, prosperity and health?

**sighs**

Ihedinobi3:

He understands it just fine. That's why He gave you a free will. You have the right to believe whatever you want. But you also have to bear what consequences come with such choices.

Free will to choose between evil and good? Lol... Free will indeed. Why not free will to chose between good and good.
Well if he understands then he should respect my opinion. And accept the fact that I don't believe in him.

Like I said, I can't force you to see whatever you are determined to ignore. But I did tell you several times what Christians enjoy in this life. So, it wasn't at all in my post that you found that "if [you are] going to be a Christian, [you] shouldn't bother about a better life." We Christians suffer but that is just what happens to us because we are Christians. It is not Christianity to seek out suffering and just wallow in it. We work too so that we can provide food and clothing and shelter and spouses and families and vacations etc like everyone else. But things don't always work out for us like they do for unbelievers. And we understand that it is because we are at war. So, we don't get mad. We keep fighting forward until our Lord returns or we go home to Him where we can rest and wait for the Day when we can have perfect happiness here on Earth.

Lol..is this what u enjoy as a Christian that I don't enjoy as an atheist? Seriously?
Are u sure u are okay?

No Christian I know likes suffering either. But we bear it. Yeah, Christianity is not for the faint-hearted.

U don't like suffering but u bear it... Lol. Enjoy bearing ur sufferings that u have to face as a Christian. As for me as an atheist, I will rather put all my effort to live a good enjoyable life.

The sun is obviously not green. Satan obviously exists. Or else why is life so hard?

Satan obviously does not exist, where did u pull him out from. How does he look like, does he have blood in his system. Just give me a little description of this ur existence devil.
Life is hard because means survive is scarce in a growing population. U don't see animals who go through hard times shout Satan all over the place.

You mean, in addition to the obvious blessings of awesome Christian friends who stick closer than family, food, water, shelter, clothing and God's intimate attention? We get to live forever in awesome perfect bodies that shine like stars and in a perfect universe that we can explore at will with God living on Earth with us and angels hanging out with us too. It's enough to blow one's mind.

Friends, family, water, clothing, shelter, clothing...I have them all. Seriously? U think atheists don't have all these? U must be a joker.
What's Gods intimate attention... Pls explain.
As for life after death... Like I told u.. I am not interested and u hoping for it does not differentiate u from me.

I'm sure you cannot have this Comfort and appreciate it. After all, God can hardly be comforting an active enemy of His, right? But you'll feel His absence whenever you decide to try to live right and be good. Life won't be so nice then without Him. You'll find life much more pleasant when you act like a law unto yourself than when you actually try to live right.

Later u will say u have answered my question...
I will repeat.. What's Gods personal comfort, translate. U that gets Gods personal comfort please tell me how u feel that I don't feel as an atheist.

Ihedinobi3:

**sighs**

U are ur own problem

frank317:

Free will to choose between evil and good? Lol... Free will indeed. Why not free will to chose between good and good.
Well if he understands then he should respect my opinion. And accept the fact that I don't believe in him.

Would you be truly free to choose if you only had good to choose?

He does respect it. You have not been prevented from attacking the Christian Faith, have you? And in the same way that He understands and accepts that you don't believe in Him, you too must understand and accept that He won't tolerate your insolence indefinitely. He will judge and condemn you because He is God and you are not if you insist on continuing to challenge His Authority.

frank317:
Lol..is this what u enjoy as a Christian that I don't enjoy as an atheist? Seriously?
Are u sure u are okay?

What? Did I promise that you would like it?

frank317:
U don't like suffering but u bear it... Lol. Enjoy bearing ur sufferings that u have to face as a Christian. As for me as an atheist, I will rather put all my effort to live a good enjoyable life.

You have every right to your choice...and all responsibility for its consequences.

frank317:
Satan obviously does not exist, where did u pull him out from. How does he look like, does he have blood in his system. Just give me a little description of this ur existence devil.
Life is hard because means survive is scarce in a growing population. U don't see animals who go through hard times shout Satan all over the place.

You have the proof you need in my question which you addressed next so I will address myself to that.

Animals happen to not possess the same intelligence and consciousness that man does. So, their not talking about Satan is really a disappointing counter. Also, it is rather interesting that you would think that man should be like the animals.

As for your argument for why life is hard, you have only restated the problem in another way, that is, there are too many mouths to feed and not enough food to go round. That is another way of saying, "life is hard". The question is why if not that Satan exists and is the reason for such things.

frank317:
Friends, family, water, clothing, shelter, clothing...I have them all. Seriously? U think atheists don't have all these? U must be a joker.
What's Gods intimate attention... Pls explain.
As for life after death... Like I told u.. I am not interested and u hoping for it does not differentiate u from me.

#Facepalm#

You are tiresome. Where did I say that atheists lack any of these things?

As for God's intimate attention, are you having trouble with English words again? But if you are asking me to quantify it, perhaps you should give me some model to use like how do you quantify your wife's intimate attention? Perhaps I can answer you in terms of that.

Also, I did not say that we hope for God's intimate attention. I said that we have it here and now.

As for life after death, as I said, it is irretrievably woven into my answer to your question. There is no reason to be a Christian if one does not have a confidence that extends past this life.

frank317:
Later u will say u have answered my question...
I will repeat.. What's Gods personal comfort, translate. U that gets Gods personal comfort please tell me how u feel that I don't feel as an atheist.

I am less troubled and disturbed by the difficulties of this life. I don't need alcohol, drugs or entertainment to help me handle the pain of living. God comforts me in all my troubles.

frank317:


U are ur own problem

Okay. But I think it's clear now that this was another bait thread to harass Christians. Had nothing to do with finding out anything.

Ihedinobi3:

Would you be truly free to choose if you only had good to choose?

Yes

He does respect it. You have not been prevented from attacking the Christian Faith, have you? And in the same way that He understands and accepts that you don't believe in Him, you too must understand and accept that He won't tolerate your insolence indefinitely. He will judge and condemn you because He is God and you are not if you insist on continuing to challenge His Authority.

OK good for him.

What? Did I promise that you would like it?

No... Just wondering why u have no joy to offer yet u preach.

You have every right to your choice...and all responsibility for its consequences.

Stop telling me what I already know... Just wondering, what's ur selling point as a Christian. This thread has revealed how useless ur religion is.

You have the proof you need in my question which you addressed next so I will address myself to that.

Animals happen to not possess the same intelligence and consciousness that man does. So, their not talking about Satan is really a disappointing counter. Also, it is rather interesting that you would think that man should be like the animals.

Animals don't have the same intelligence like u yet the suffer too and this does not get u thinking that suffering comes with survival? Yet when u suffer u being to call Satan? So since Satan makes u an intelligent being suffer, who make less intelligent animals suffer?

As for your argument for why life is hard, you have only restated the problem in another way, that is, there are too many mouths to feed and not enough food to go round. That is another way of saying, "life is hard". The question is why if not that Satan exists and is the reason for such things.

Pls stop blaming invisible Satan for life problem... Regions where means of survival are not scarce do not experience the same suffering like others. It has nothing tondo with Satan, but planning and strategizing.

#Facepalm#

You are tiresome. Where did I say that atheists lack any of these things?

See ur life. U are actually making me doubt ur intelligence. I asked u what Christians enjoy that atheists don't and u present these things... What does it imply. That's why i said u don't know how to answer questions. U end up talking in circles and lose focus. That's why u fail to see the implication of ur replies.

As for God's intimate attention, are you having trouble with English words again? But if you are asking me to quantify it, perhaps you should give me some model to use like how do you quantify your wife's intimate attention? Perhaps I can answer you in terms of that.

What's God's attention? How can I see u and know that u have Gods attention. U don't know what a wife's intimate attention is? Oga operationally define what God's intimate attention is. It has been always preached that Christians will get Gods intimate attention, hence I opened the thread... Let me rephrase...what special about Gods intimate attention.

Also, I did not say that we hope for God's intimate attention. I said that we have it here and now.

Then tell me why I should desire it. Cos it seems it makes no difference

As for life after death, as I said, it is irretrievably woven into my answer to your question. There is no reason to be a Christian if one does not have a confidence that extends past this life.

Of course

I am less troubled and disturbed by the difficulties of this life. I don't need alcohol, drugs or entertainment to help me handle the pain of living. God comforts me in all my troubles.

At least u have troubles... I don't disturb myself by life difficulties too... I am doing fine. Or do u think atheists are troubled? Christianity actually has nothing to offer.