Geoffreymgk:
Nigerian JWs are the worst!
Some man was disfellowshipped publicly at the assembly some years Ago. So much for Holy Spirit and Protocol or repentance checking Rubbish!

they are all bad, they all have the same satanic beliefs


false jw's haven't got the Holy Spirit, they don't know Him, they think the Holy Spirit is a non personable power

God is omnipotent - all powerful, but false jw's think God's power is something seperate from God
God speaks and worlds come into being, that's power



john 1:1, God and the word is God,

God and the Word is the Holy Spirit:

Joh_14:23  Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

^^^ Father and Son is Holy Spirit,

vvv Jesus is Holy Spirit

Joh 14:17  Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

^^^ Jesus clearly showing His apostles and disciples that He is God the Holy Spirit

Jesus dwelleth with His apostles and disciples and shall be in them




1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

^^^ describing false jw exactly

OneJ:
@Zodiakzax,
"Who ,although he was in the form of God" simply means Christ Jesus was a spirit being, a spiritual entity.
No dull yourself with long jargon.
Human form simply means fleshly body.
God's form (the form of God) is spirit body.

Hahahaha don't enlighten him o

Jesus taking human form means he possess the full character and kind of humanity , Born by sex and inherits sin.

zodiakzax:


who, although He existed in the form and unchanging essence of God [as One with Him, possessing the fullness of all the divine attributes--the entire nature of deity], did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped or asserted [as if He did not already possess it, or was afraid of losing it];
PHILIPPIANS 2:6 AMP


Amplified puts it well and that should rightly be so. I leave that to my readers to know the truth

Nice of you to finally understand and bring up the human vs dog example, now it's getting through

Humans and dogs are both physical beings, yes, I never said they weren't, but are they the same kind just because they are both physical beings? No, SO BY SUM AND SUBSTANCE DOGS ARE NOT HUMANS.

Morphe means form,nature,character,kind

Kind: a group of people or things having similar characteristics.
synonyms: sort, type, variety, style, class, category, genre;

Chatacter: the distinctive nature of something.

So if morphe means form,nature,character,kind and we see the meaning of kind as a group or genre having similar characteristics, we also see the meaning of character as a distinctive nature of something, then we can say Humans by nature are not Dogs. Dogs are in their own kind as God created every animal after it's own kind, Humans are also another kind and what differenciates us is our nature....So the nature of God cannot be the same as Angels just because they are both Spirit Beings, God's Sum and Substance is beyond the Angelic beings. God's kind, sort, type, variety, style, class, category, genre is not the same as Angels.


if you still don't get that and still insist on your fallacy then I again leave that for others to judge.

I am so happy for one thing, Philippians 2:6 uses morphed in two ways , first for Form of God and secondly for form of human.

If amplified is correct, Mr Zodiakzax , are you saying Jesus coming in the form of human INCLUDED SUM as well . both must tally if you are saying the truth

Character: Sinful human

Kind: Inherits sin and pro created by sexual intercourse .

DID JESUS HUMAN " FORM " CONTAIN THIS the above as Well ?



Question tagged #A4 for clarification and reference.

Getting interesting.

cc: Gruni1234, you can attempt the above as well since it's all about Sum and Substance.

2. I explained why Jesus did not know the end because He was a servant and a man and did not make Himself equal with the Father. Jesus humbled Himself to take upon himself the nature of man even though He was God.

Stupid excuse , does the trinitarian third person, holy spirit know? That's the Million dollar question that will expose the above nonsense you typed.


Are you aware that after his resurrection. , he Still admit Only the Father knows ?



Sum " wan put you for hot trouble

Jesus again never said He was the Son of God when He walked the Earth, let's look the scripture

Liar.

First lie is still on record and will always be. Jesus never call himself son of God.

Later it was changed to when he was on earth. Its surprising that someone can be this bold to tell sucha bizzare lie. Despite many bible writers even Peter calls him Son of God and he commend that His Father revealed it.


Lie 2 has been exposed too

That calls into question your position on this thread.

22.And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

23. And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

24.Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29.My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30. I and My Father are one

31.Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32. Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33.The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36.Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because. I said, I am the Son of God?
John 10:22‭-‬29‭, ‬31‭-‬36 KJV

JESUS spoke about Himself and the Father, a relationship of Son and Father, Jesus makes a bold statement that He was One with the Father making Him equal to God in essence and nature. The jews heard this and got furious because Jesus from His statement claims He's Gods Son, they wanted to stone him because he makes himself equal to God. JESUS quotes a verse to support his claim, and then uses that verse to ask the jews why they said He blasphemed? Was it because he said he was God's Son?

So where did He say He was God's Son? Jesus was referring to His statement from vs 25 to 30 where from his statement claims He was the Son of God and claims equality with God in nature and essence, I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE. This was what Jesus referred to when He said " because I said I am the Son of God?" He asked them a question, that was not a claim. If you assume it was a claim then kindly show me the verse wChrist was referring to that He said He was the Son of God?

Where did Christ say He was the Son of God? What verse was he referring to that He said so?



Where was Jesus addressed Son alongside Angels? show me..

Liaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrr !!!

That you can say the underlined despite the highlighted shows who you are.

Because I SAID, I SAID

Again , I SAID

Again, I SAID

I SAID , its clear for all to see . This is what Trinity does to people,make them bold liars.

You are even lying on Jesus ? Your case is pathetic

Okay, was he lying that he said that ?

cc: Gruni1234 , I know you won't see all this lies and perversion of truth by your darling zodiakzax

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 1:5‭-‬8 KJV

Well the writer of Hebrews didn't see it that way, no Angel was begotten of God as a Son. If there is kindly show me. Hebrews is clear that THE SON IS NOT AN ANGEL AND THAT THE SON IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN ONE. PERIOD UNLESS YOU DISAGREE WITH THE WRITER

I showed

New American Standard Bible John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; [b]the only begotten God [/b]who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him

The Son was already begotten from the beginning. The Son wasn't begotten when He came as Man.


Monogenes : begotten

Beget is to procreate or generate


Isaac was Abrahams begotten Son, Abraham brought forth Isaac, Abraham generated Isaac.Yes through sexual intercourse of course, BUT ABRAHAM DID NOT CREATE ISAAC.

LIKEWISE GOD BROUGHT FORTH THE SON, GENERATED THE SON, BEGET THE SON BEFORE CREATION. GOD DID NOT CREATE THE SON, JUST LIKE ABRAHAM DID NOT CREATE ISAAC EVEN THOUGH ISAAC WAS HIS BEGOTTEN SON.

Job 38:7 Angels are called sons of God.

In relation to God , is Isaac a Created being or not ?
Answer that and let's relate it to God in the case of Christ.

OneJ:


Your ignorance is pardonable.
Pharisees did not fall from outer space.
The Pharisees were Jews, no dull yourself.

Liar, the bible verse in John 5:18 that it was the JEWS NOT THE PHARISEES...

Were ALL JEWS PHARISEES? No

Who is a Jew?

a member of the people and cultural community whose traditional religion is Judaism and who trace their origins to the ancient Hebrew people of Israel.


Who is a Pharisee?

a member of an ancient Jewish sect, distinguished by strict observance of the traditional and written law, and commonly held to have pretensions to superior sanctity.


Bible is clear when talking about Pharisees and Jews . JOHN 5:18 SAID JEWS. You were clearly mistaken, accept it and stop you stupidity. Stop arguing bruv, you will only show more stupidity...

zodiakzax:


At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Matthew 11:25‭-‬26 KJV


Question is did Jesus call God Lord? Or Master?

You cited this verse, Jesus called The Father and said the Father is the Lord of heaven and earth.... Jesus did not call The Father there Lord.... Did Jesus said My Lord, or My master? That was the question so please come up with a better verse.


I will address the rest shortly...

Lord is the same thing as My Lord.

Jesus didn't say " why did David call him my Lord ?

He said why did David call him LORD.

Because they are the same thing .


You have comprehension issues , Calling anyone Lord means you regard them as Master. If you don't get the verse, ask for explanation .

Jesus address him as Lord of heaven and earth.

Master over heaven and the Earth. Meaning , Lord of every living thing in heaven and earth

Jesus is one of them as such he is under him , 1 Cor 11:3 God is the head of Christ. His Lord.

A man is the head of a woman . her Lord.

Receive sense.

That means someone higher would not call his subordinate Lord. The one send and calling Yahweh Lord at Isaiah 48:16 is not Yahweh because Yahweh his the most high and won't call anyone Lord.

Jesus said " [b] David , therefore call him Lord ; so how is he his son ?

The moment you call anyone Lord. They are above you is what it means.

zodiakzax:




Liar, the bible verse in John 5:18 that it was the JEWS NOT THE PHARISEES...

Were ALL JEWS PHARISEES? No

Who is a Jew?

a member of the people and cultural community whose traditional religion is Judaism and who trace their origins to the ancient Hebrew people of Israel.


Who is a Pharisee?

a member of an ancient Jewish sect, distinguished by strict observance of the traditional and written law, and commonly held to have pretensions to superior sanctity.


Bible is clear when talking about Pharisees and Jews . JOHN 5:18 SAID JEWS. You were clearly mistaken, accept it and stop you stupidity. Stop arguing bruv, you will only show more stupidity...

The matter in John 5 to chapter 10, shows that Christ contended with Jews & some were Pharisees.
Zodiakzax was not there when those events took place. Many Jews who opposed Jesus were Pharisees, they never believed that Jesus is the son of God.
Pls bring proof that no Pharisee was in that crowd.

Every unbelieving Jew (anyone against Jesus) is a Pharisee,know it today.

johnw47:


they are all bad, they all have the same satanic beliefs


false jw's haven't got the Holy Spirit, they don't know Him, they think the Holy Spirit is a non personable power

God is omnipotent - all powerful, but false jw's think God's power is something seperate from God
God speaks and worlds come into being, that's power



john 1:1, God and the word is God,

God and the Word is the Holy Spirit:

Joh_14:23  Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

^^^ Father and Son is Holy Spirit,

vvv Jesus is Holy Spirit

Joh 14:17  Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

^^^ Jesus clearly showing His apostles and disciples that He is God the Holy Spirit

Jesus dwelleth with His apostles and disciples and shall be in them




1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

^^^ describing false jw exactly

Are you a Former JW

Barristter07:


I am so happy for one thing, Philippians 2:6 uses morphed in two ways , first for Form of God and secondly for form of human.

If amplified is correct, Mr Zodiakzax , are you saying Jesus coming in the form of human INCLUDED SUM as well . both must tally if you are saying the truth

Character: Sinful human

Kind: Inherits sin and pro created by sexual intercourse .

DID JESUS HUMAN " FORM " CONTAIN THIS the above as Well ?



Question tagged #A4 for clarification and reference.

Getting interesting.

cc: Gruni1234, you can attempt the above as well since it's all about Sum and Substance.


Stupid excuse , does the trinitarian third person, holy spirit know? That's the Million dollar question that will expose the above nonsense you typed.


Are you aware that after his resurrection. , he Still admit Only the Father knows ?



Sum " wan put you for hot trouble




Liar.

First lie is still on record and will always be. Jesus never call himself son of God.

Later it was changed to when he was on earth. Its surprising that someone can be this bold to tell sucha bizzare lie. Despite many bible writers even Peter calls him Son of God and he commend that His Father revealed it.


Lie 2 has been exposed too

That calls into question your position on this thread.






Liaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrr !!!

That you can say the underlined despite the highlighted shows who you are.

Because I SAID, I SAID

Again , I SAID

Again, I SAID

I SAID , its clear for all to see . This is what Trinity does to people,make them bold liars.

You are even lying on Jesus ? Your case is pathetic

Okay, was he lying that he said that ?

cc: Gruni1234 , I know you won't see all this lies and perversion of truth by your darling zodiakzax







Job 38:7 Angels are called sons of God.

In relation to God , is Isaac a Created being or not ?
Answer that and let's relate it to God in the case of Christ.

Yes by Sum and Substance Jesus was Fully Man without Sin Yes, how was He without Sin, I think your own sources explained it under the topic His Birth. So that should help YOU understand it better. Yes so based in His Miraculous conception Jesus was Without Sin and yet Fully Man. And I'm glad you understand the Amplified.


https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002451




Now let me answer your million in one question, does the Holy Spirit know?

1cor 2:11
For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

From scripture we know the Holy Spirit Knows the thoughts of God. So yes the Holy Spirit Knows the Hour, time,day the world would end.



I am not aware that after the resurrection Jesus was asked about this same matter and He said He doesn't know,.Kindly show me the verse. I am glad you acknowledge that the Son is no more limited after the resurrection.


Now,

I asked you a simple question which I had to frame and reframe for you several times hoping you get the understanding but your intellect is so poor that I have to reframe again for. Here is what I said:


JESUS spoke about Himself and the Father, a relationship of Son and Father, Jesus makes a bold statement that He was One with the Father making Him equal to God in essence and nature. The jews heard this and got furious because Jesus from His statement claims He's Gods Son, they wanted to stone him because he makes himself equal to God. JESUS quotes a verse to support his claim, and then uses that verse to ask the jews why they said He blasphemed? Was it because he said he was God's Son? 

So let me rephrase for you

So which exact statement was he referring to when he said He was God's Son? Jesus was referring to His statement from vs 25 to 30 where from his statement claims He was the Son of God and claims equality with God in nature and essence, I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE. This was what Jesus referred to when He said " because I said I am the Son of God?" He asked them a question, that was not a claim. If you assume it was a claim then kindly show me the verse where Christ was referring to that He said He was the Son of God? 

Where did Christ say He was the Son of God? What verse was he referring to that He said so?

You answered by saying: I SAID I SAID, well he said where did He say? SAID WAS IN THE PAST so Jesus was referring to a statement He made right? Which statement was it? BECAUSE I SAID I AM THE SON OF GOD? Where did He say He was the Son of God? From vs 22-32 before he was going to be stoned I didn't see where He said He was the Son of God. So which statement was he referring to? I guess you should understand it now.


You said Jesus was called a Son alongside the angels

I asked, where was Christ was called a Son along side angels?

His answer: job 38:7 angels are called Sons of God

I explained further


For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? [/b]And again, [b]I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 1:5‭-‬8 KJV


The writer of Hebrews didn't see it that way, no Angel was begotten of God as a Son. If there is kindly show me. Hebrews is clear that THE SON IS NOT AN ANGEL AND THAT THE SON IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN ONE. PERIOD UNLESS YOU DISAGREE WITH THE WRITER 

I showed 

New American Standard Bible John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God [/b]who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him

[b]The Son was already begotten from the beginning. The Son wasn't begotten when He came as Man. 

Angels are sons of God but Jesus is the begotten Son of God.



About Abraham and his begotten son Isaac,

I said

Monogenes : begotten

Beget is to procreate or generate 


Isaac was Abrahams begotten Son, Abraham brought forth Isaac, Abraham generated Isaac. He asks how did Abraham beget Isaac,
My answer

through sexual intercourse of course, and I said BUT ABRAHAM DID NOT CREATE ISAAC. 

LIKEWISE GOD BROUGHT FORTH THE SON, GENERATED THE SON, BEGET THE SON. GOD DID NOT CREATE THE SON, JUST LIKE ABRAHAM DID NOT CREATE ISAAC EVEN THOUGH ISAAC WAS HIS BEGOTTEN SON.

Ignoring that He asked a rather stupid and irrelevant question, is Isaac created?

To answer that:

Isaac was Abraham's begotten Son and not Yahweh's begotten Son, Abraham brought forth Isaac, Abraham generated Isaac. ABRAHAM DID NOT CREATE ISAAC. YAHWEH CREATED ABRAHAM SO YES YAHWEH CREATED ISAAC. Using the same analogy

GOD BROUGHT FORTH THE SON, GENERATED THE SON, BEGET THE SON. GOD DID NOT CREATE THE SON.YAHWEH IS NOT CREATED SO THE SON CANNOT BE CREATED.

So I've pointed out that since Isaac was Abraham's begotten and not Yahweh's he is a created being since Abraham his father is created but Jesus was the begotten Son of Yahweh not Abraham and since Yahweh is not created the Son cannot be created.

Hairyrapunzel:


The name of the group of true Christians is TRUE CHRISTIANS.

That's exactly what i'm saying! Because if there's TRUE Christians, there must certainly be false Christians too. So what are the WORKS or FRUITS to distinguish between the TRUE and FALSE
Jehovah's Witnesses have established a globally recognised system of worship and just like the first century Christians they STRONGLY believe that it's the ONE and ONLY way of worship acceptable before the true God. Remember that Jesus wasn't interested in the false religions but He only directs honesthearted persons to the One and only WAY to worship His Heavenly Father,by emphasizing on what worshippers ought to do. He also prophesied that there will be many false prophets misleading many! So please it will be meaningless worshipping without enlightening sincere ones about IDENTIFYING Jesus' true followers today

TATIME:
That's exactly what i'm saying! Because if there's TRUE Christians, there must certainly be false Christians too. So what are the WORKS or FRUITS to distinguish between the TRUE and FALSE
Jehovah's Witnesses have established a globally recognised system of worship and just like the first century Christians they STRONGLY believe that it's the ONE and ONLY way of worship acceptable before the true God. Remember that Jesus wasn't interested in the false religions but He only directs honesthearted persons to the One and only WAY to worship His Heavenly Father,by emphasizing on what worshippers ought to do. He also prophesied that there will be many false prophets misleading many! So please it will be meaningless worshipping without enlightening sincere ones about IDENTIFYING Jesus' true followers today

If having true Christians means there is also false Christians, Jesus is a false god since you say Jesus is a god, and there is only one True God called jehovah.

Therefore since there is only one true God then all other gods are false. Jesus is a false god too.

OneJ:

The matter in John 5 to chapter 10, shows that Christ contended with Jews & some were Pharisees.
Zodiakzax was not there when those events took place. Many Jews who opposed Jesus were Pharisees, they never believed that Jesus is the son of God.
Pls bring proof that no Pharisee was in that crowd.

Every unbelieving Jew (anyone against Jesus) is a Pharisee,know it today.

, were you also there?


, John was there and John said Jews not Pharisees


You are still making a fool out of yourself.

JOHN KNOWING VERY WELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PAHRISEES AND JEWS SAID THE JEWS AND NOT PHARISESS

this shows the level your intellect. Like a child.

Why should i bring proof that Pharisees were in the crowd, we were both not there remember? But as you rightly said it was a crowd, a crowd of Jews not Pharisees so stop disgracing yourself further. Barristter07 and co are doing a good job putting a fight, don't let them look so stupid.

TATIME:
That's exactly what i'm saying! Because if there's TRUE Christians, there must certainly be false Christians too. So what are the WORKS or FRUITS to distinguish between the TRUE and FALSE
Jehovah's Witnesses have established a globally recognised system of worship and just like the first century Christians they STRONGLY believe that it's the ONE and ONLY way of worship acceptable before the true God. Remember that Jesus wasn't interested in the false religions but He only directs honesthearted persons to the One and only WAY to worship His Heavenly Father,by emphasizing on what worshippers ought to do. He also prophesied that there will be many false prophets misleading many! So please it will be meaningless worshipping without enlightening sincere ones about IDENTIFYING Jesus' true followers today

Since Jesus Christ told you the name of the TRUE ChristianS today and how to identify them state the name and their characteristics.


So now since you can't provide the exact name of the group you now say Jesus Christ wasn't interested in false religions. Lol.

You must give us the name they called the group of true Christians in the Bible. You have been shouting that they must give you the name an alternative group now give us the name of the group they called true Christians in the Bible you are finding it had.

Barristter07:

Lord is the same thing as My Lord.

Jesus didn't say " why did David call him my Lord ?

He said why did David call him LORD.

Because they are the same thing .


You have comprehension issues , Calling anyone Lord means you regard them as Master. If you don't get the verse, ask for explanation .

Jesus address him as Lord of heaven and earth.

Master over heaven and the Earth. Meaning , Lord of every living thing in heaven and earth

Jesus is one of them as such he is under him , 1 Cor 11:3 God is the head of Christ. His Lord.

A man is the head of a woman . her Lord.

Receive sense.

That means someone higher would not call his subordinate Lord. The one send and calling Yahweh Lord at Isaiah 48:16 is not Yahweh because Yahweh his the most high and won't call anyone Lord.

Jesus said " David , therefore call him Lord ; so how is he his son ?

The moment you call anyone Lord. They are above you is what it means.

You havnt answered me bruv,


JESUS was referring to Himself when he quoted David...


I asked you where did Jesus address God as Lord or Master?

You said Lord means my Lord, so where did Jesus address God as My Lord or My master?


But be not ye called Rabbi: [b]for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Matthew 23:8‭-‬9 KJV

One is your Master,teacher,Lord that is Christ but one is your Father that is The Father...


JESUS clearly doesn't say one is your Master The Father, so where did He called the Father Lord or Master.

JESUS called Him Father and said he was the Lord of heaven and earth, I asked you where did Jesus call Him Lord...


Irrelevant scriptures... Where did Jesus call Him Lord or Master.. answer me

Already God has you where He wants you-God knows our hearts, He is the One that calls us to Jesus-already He had open a door for you' and of course you have responded to it, you had been led here my friend-you already have decided-but you haven't yet made your decision!
Stick around, and ask as many questions you need to know-we serve God, we are here to help you.
This may sound a little crazy-do you ever talk to yourself, "If yes. then talk to God-but if you are seeking to know all truth-then go to your secret place-ask God If He exist?

Gruni1234:


I'm a new comer, new to this place actually but my interest on your discussion became peeked high when,after I typed the words trinity, saw your thread with over 100 replies and responds. Spent some few hours catching up on the latest. Well I'm more of a learner and to ascertain truth for myself I have to be neutral and open minded to understand your remarks. I am on a quest to see if God does exist or not.

snnazzy24:
I have a few point against the facts stated about Jehovah witness.

1.. You claim not to participate in wars and for that reason Hitler killed a large number of your member, but even Jehovah himself was involved in wars to help the children of Israel according to the bible so who is deceiving who?

2.. You talked about 300 Jehovah witness members in prison in South Korea and Egypt because they refused to stop preaching or to be enlisted in the military but Jesus commanded to give to Caesar what's of Caesar and God what's of God, disobeying the laws of a nation is disobeying God, besides it was written that when you go to a person or people to preach and they refuse, you should dust off your shoes and leave peacefully, Christ didn't tell you to disobey. about enlisting in the military, even God's own people in the bible were listed in the military so where did you get your doctrine from?

3.. You talked about not saluting the flag or singing the national anthem well that's the highest point of hypocrisy because when you have problems such as Health, Security, or financial etc of any sort you go to people who swore oaths and respect the flag, you acquire educational knowledge from institutions set up by the same country you don't respect their flag, if you pledge your alliance to God then you shouldn't enjoy benefits like other citizens who pledged their alliance to God and their respective country. Your Jehovah should create or form another country for you or else you will continue to be treated as Aliens in any country.

if your leaders can review these facts and most importantly the doctrine of not giving blood to a dying person, I bet your religion would be the best to practice and promote peace in our world but I guess they wouldn't because all religion is nothing but nonsense.

That's a close one Sir but it's like there are more ATHEISTS in the house than i thought. You said "all religion is nothing but NONSENSE" and it's like some people agreed with you on that.
Well that's just by the way.
First of all "JEHOVAH was involved in WARS supporting the Israelites" YES! But let's find out why the spirit who claim to be the Creator of all things should be one-sided during conflicts? HE wanted to establish a nation that's not under the influence of Satan and his demons because Satan started ruling humans immediately after the incident in the Eden, this nation will serve as an example for all other nations as to what happened that led to worshipping different Gods, they must have DIVINE rules to distinguish them from all other races with human traditional laws, they must prove to be dedicated to their God and King. But Satan is organizing those nations under his control to stop all of that.
JEHOVAH made a name for HIMSELF by making the first and foremost world power to release HIS people without a military force. So even though Satan kept making one person or another as his human representative to rule the world, God wants all of them to leave the Israelites alone for the purpose HE brought them out of Egypt. That is why JEHOVAH kept doing things that will make them know that someone much more powerful than all their false Gods put together is behind Israel. If they're thinking that it's all coincidental then JEHOVAH will use just one Israelite to kill one thousand of HIS opposers. Instead of them to desist from attacking HIS people, they're planning different forms of military settings. Satan is using his agents to deceive them that the Israelites aren't invincible but JEHOVAH kept showing that HE is behind that little nation,until they killed the person that Moses promised saying "a prophet will rise amongst you just like me and you must listen to whatever he says". After killing most of the true prophets sent to them, they killed Jesus (the chief cornerstone) so God abandoned them and their nation.
Today the only reason that Israel still exist is because of the Bible, so that Satan won't be able to discard totally all that's written in the Bible.
When the Christian congregation began in the first century, they will never raise a weapon against anyone because they strongly believe that Christianity will go round and the only way to preserve the love amongst the worshippers of the true God is neutrality during conflicts. So Christians don't go to war until Satan started planting falsehood after the death of the Apostles. What Jesus told Christians is "FLEE" if some people are trying to take your territories as their personal possessions. Matthew 10:23
So true Christians have NO reason to take up arms for battle, that's why Apostle Paul reminded them saying "our warring is not against flesh and blood"(Ephesians 6:12)
Today true Christians are awaiting the coming of the great day of Jehovah, when HE will exterminate all those opposing HIS right to rule as King. NO Christian in the flesh is permitted to participate in this great battle because it's Jesus and the heavenly host that's coming to take vengeance against all those who has a hand in the killing of God's faithful prophets both of ancient times and present! Revelations 19:11-21 compared to Matthew 11:49-51
As for Caesar and what belongs to him. Well that means the respect,honor and fear of those in Superior authorities (Romans 13:7) but when such ones gives orders that conflicts with God's will,then Christians will emphatically say NO! Act 5:29 You can't just give me orders to take up weapons against my fellowman due to your political ambitions, that's why NO other religious group has the love that permeates the congregations of Jehovah's witnesses. We will never take up arms against our fellow man! If our fellow man takes up weapons to kill us, we'll flee because we're sure that Satan is the one controlling them by means of POLITICTS. We must not kill our fellow man for no reason whatsoever! And if eventually we are killed while running away, we're certain of a resurrection that's why we'll rather allow the one under Satan's influence to kill us than kill first, since that one's hope is a change of heart. Acts 7:58-60 Stephen's prayer was heard that is why Saul later became Apostle Paul and he regretted all that he did against the true worshippers of God. Act 26:4-11
How would Paul have had the opportunity of writing all those mind-blowing letters that true Christians are reading today if Stephen have taken up arms to fight back? Today both Paul and Stephen are good examples for true Christians!
Saluting the flag and national anthem started in the days of Nebuchadnezzar. So true Christians know that Satan is using those settings to create hatred amongst the human race! You'll stand to say lofty things about your country, while another man will do the same for his country. And when there is conflicts between politicians, you'll be willing with all your might and soul to kill someone you never knew.
Well you've said it all. Jehovah's Witnesses is the best to PRACTICE and promote PEACE in our world, just that you don't understand why we avoid certain things!

Hairyrapunzel:


Since Jesus Christ told you the name of the TRUE ChristianS today and how to identify them state the name and their characteristics.


So now since you can't provide the exact name of the group you now say Jesus Christ wasn't interested in false religions. Lol.

You must give us the name they called the group of true Christians in the Bible. You have been shouting that they must give you the name an alternative group now give us the name of the group they called true Christians in the Bible you are finding it had.

True Christians never gave themselves a name back then. Of course if Jesus gave a name,all the religions of the earth today that knows about that name will adopt it.
Jesus only gave instructions and those strictly following His orders are the true Christians, no matter what they call themselves.

Are you or are you not a JW? JW''s believe Michael is Jesus--you can not be a JW and disbelieve their doctrine at the same time, you are either a JW and believe all their doctrines, if not-then you are a false JW to the JW's?

TATIME:
That's what Jesus Himself said(Matthew 13:30 compared to Revelations 22:11) And that's exactly what Christians are supposed to do,

JW's expect everybody to be evenly yoke together-firstly you swear black and blue for the JW's now you have denied them in word-you can't preach your own beliefs and preach their beliefs together, both doctrines will fall..
This has got nothing to do with your beliefs but I might as well show you how the bible explains your denial against the JW's..
{ 2 John 1:9} Do you not know that if anyone who runs ahead without remaining in the teaching of Christ does not have God. Whoever remains in His teaching has both the Father and the Son.
You have neither the Father nor the Son-you don't accept JW' teachings of Michael is Jesus-with your own beliefs, and yet you have used the wheat and the tares doctrine as your way out to save you from what? I can see you in the street standing with another JW arguing over Michael and Jesus-because you both can't decide what is Watchtower truth?

TATIME:
It's simple! Some religious groups are saying Jesus is Michael the archangel but some disagreed with that. So let each continue preaching and teaching what they know or " what they thought they know" and time will tell who's FAITH is able to withstand the test of time! That's what Jesus Himself said(Matthew 13:30 compared to Revelations 22:11) And that's exactly what Christians are supposed to do,it's either you preach peacefully in your neighborhood and help your fellowman to realise his errors or you walk away gently when he arrogantly brags upon nothing!
Jehovah's Witnesses highly regards Jesus' comments that's why we don't worry over those who thought they knew much more than us,so we move quickly to the ones who feel like knowing the message we're trying to pass across. Jesus won't disturb other religious groups from practicing what they feel it's right, that's why He sent us to "individuals" in their homes. Matthew 10:11-15

zodiakzax:


You havnt answered me bruv,


JESUS was referring to Himself when he quoted David...


I asked you where did Jesus address God as Lord or Master?

You said Lord means my Lord, so where did Jesus address God as My Lord or My master?


But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Matthew 23:8‭-‬9 KJV

One is your Master,teacher,Lord that is Christ but one is your Father that is The Father...


JESUS clearly doesn't say one is your Master The Father, so where did He called the Father Lord or Master.


JESUS called Him Father and said he was the Lord of heaven and earth, I asked you where did Jesus call Him Lord...


Irrelevant scriptures... Where did Jesus call Him Lord or Master.. answer me

So much for comprehension

Did.he address him as " Lord " , yes or no ?

TATIME:
True Christians never gave themselves a name back then. Of course if Jesus gave a name,all the religions of the earth today that knows about that name will adopt it.
Jesus only gave instructions and those strictly following His orders are the true Christians, no matter what they call themselves.

Give us the name o. Now you realise that no name was given to any group. Lol

When you were shouting upandan telling us to give the name of the group of true Christians today you thought you sounded intelligent. Only for you to see your foolishness later on.

Bible never said we should join any group to gain everlasting life. Hope you get the gist now.


You feel you are smart. You want to cover up your ignorance. Lol

Barristter07:


So much for comprehension

Did.he address him as " Lord " , yes or no ?

You will quote phrase dumping the other phrases in the same verse. Did Jesus say father?

zodiakzax:




Yes by Sum and Substance Jesus was Fully Man without Sin Yes, how was He without Sin, I think your own sources explained it under the topic His Birth. So that should help YOU understand it better. Yes so based in His Miraculous conception Jesus was Without Sin and yet Fully Man. And I'm glad you understand the Amplified.


https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002451

Fully man [ Substance ] but without sin , and Miraculous conception . Lacks Sum

Sum definition:

You yourself said



the whole of something after all the different features or parts that it consists of are taken into account:


Putting this meaning there it says nature of something is the total attribute or characteristics of something including every part of that thing...


So lets examine that Philippians again.


taking the form of a servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

That form was in the likeness of MEN

Sum requires that he is IMPERFECT and inherits Sin LIKE MEN.

Substance doesn't..

Emphasis on " Likeness of men "

Now let me answer your million in one question, does the Holy Spirit know?

1cor 2:11
For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

From scripture we know the Holy Spirit Knows the thoughts of God. So yes the Holy Spirit Knows the Hour, time,day the world would end.

Hahahaha this liar has. Come again.

Okay what did Jesus say ?
Except the Father.


" NOBODY knows "

" NOBODY knows '.
So Jesus is lying ??

Continue to contradict , its a trait. Of liars

Abeg address that question again concerning your third person.

I am not aware that after the resurrection Jesus was asked about this same matter and He said He doesn't know,.Kindly show me the verse. I am glad you acknowledge that the Son is no more limited after the resurrection.

Act 1: 5-7
He specifically said knowing the times belong to the Father.

Now,

I asked you a simple question which I had to frame and reframe for you several times hoping you get the understanding but your intellect is so poor that I have to reframe again for. Here is what I said:


JESUS spoke about Himself and the Father, a relationship of Son and Father, Jesus makes a bold statement that He was One with the Father making Him equal to God in essence and nature. The jews heard this and got furious because Jesus from His statement claims He's Gods Son, they wanted to stone him because he makes himself equal to God. JESUS quotes a verse to support his claim, and then uses that verse to ask the jews why they said He blasphemed? Was it because he said he was God's Son? 

So let me rephrase for you

So which exact statement was he referring to when he said He was God's Son? Jesus was referring to His statement from vs 25 to 30 where from his statement claims He was the Son of God and claims equality with God in nature and essence, I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE. This was what Jesus referred to when He said " because I said I am the Son of God?" He asked them a question, that was not a claim. If you assume it was a claim then kindly show me the verse where Christ was referring to that He said He was the Son of God? 

Where did Christ say He was the Son of God? What verse was he referring to that He said so?

You answered by saying: I SAID I SAID, well he said where did He say? SAID WAS IN THE PAST so Jesus was referring to a statement He made right? Which statement was it? BECAUSE I SAID I AM THE SON OF GOD? Where did He say He was the Son of God? From vs 22-32 before he was going to be stoned I didn't see where He said He was the Son of God. So which statement was he referring to? I guess you should understand it now.

He claimed it. Emphasis on Because I SAID

If he doesn't it would have been when did I said ?

So much for comprehension . now you are asking for when he made the Statement . John said there many things he did that were not on record.

But Revelation confirms he said that

Unless you mean he lies that he said so.

Did he ?

You said Jesus was called a Son alongside the angels

I asked, where was Christ was called a Son along side angels?

His answer: job 38:7 angels are called Sons of God

I explained further


For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? [/b]And again, [b]I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 1:5‭-‬8 KJV


The writer of Hebrews didn't see it that way, no Angel was begotten of God as a Son. If there is kindly show me. Hebrews is clear that THE SON IS NOT AN ANGEL AND THAT THE SON IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN ONE. PERIOD UNLESS YOU DISAGREE WITH THE WRITER 

I showed 

Writer of Hebrew didn't disagree with Jon 38;7 , verse 9 said God anoint him among his fellows , who are his fellows ?

You have your answer .

Are angels not. called son of God at Job 38:7??

Funny , so funny

New American Standard Bible John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God [/b]who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him

[b]The Son was already begotten from the beginning. The Son wasn't begotten when He came as Man. 

Angels are sons of God but Jesus is the begotten Son of God.



About Abraham and his begotten son Isaac,

I said

Monogenes : begotten

Beget is to procreate or generate 


Isaac was Abrahams begotten Son, Abraham brought forth Isaac, Abraham generated Isaac. He asks how did Abraham beget Isaac,
My answer

through sexual intercourse of course, and I said BUT ABRAHAM DID NOT CREATE ISAAC. 

LIKEWISE GOD BROUGHT FORTH THE SON, GENERATED THE SON, BEGET THE SON. GOD DID NOT CREATE THE SON, JUST LIKE ABRAHAM DID NOT CREATE ISAAC EVEN THOUGH ISAAC WAS HIS BEGOTTEN SON.

Ignoring that He asked a rather stupid and irrelevant question, is Isaac created?

To answer that:

Isaac was Abraham's begotten Son and not Yahweh's begotten Son, Abraham brought forth Isaac, Abraham generated Isaac. ABRAHAM DID NOT CREATE ISAAC. YAHWEH CREATED ABRAHAM SO YES YAHWEH CREATED ISAAC. Using the same analogy

GOD BROUGHT FORTH THE SON, GENERATED THE SON, BEGET THE SON. GOD DID NOT CREATE THE SON.YAHWEH IS NOT CREATED SO THE SON CANNOT BE CREATED.

So I've pointed out that since Isaac was Abraham's begotten and not Yahweh's he is a created being since Abraham his father is created but Jesus was the begotten Son of Yahweh not Abraham and since Yahweh is not created the Son cannot be created.

Liars cannot stand the truth, they will either somersault or keep telling more lies and catch themselves in their own web.

@ highlighted , Abeg how exactly did Yahweh create Abraham ?

that should settle this

Barristter07:


So much for comprehension

Did.he address him as " Lord " , yes or no ?

See someone that comprehends. Some one that believes that 8 old men in new York are the only means of communication between God and man today. Lol.


Someone that believes that his all loving jehovah will slaughter all non jws because they didn't join watchtower organization and obey their leaders aka gb.

Jesus said his father is lord of heaven and earth.
Jesus didn't address his father as lord. Read your Bible well. I even forgot that your Bible is adulterated.

Barristter07:


Fully man [ Substance ] but without sin , and Miraculous conception . Lacks Sum

Sum definition:

You yourself said



the whole of something after all the different features or parts that it consists of are taken into account:


Putting this meaning there it says nature of something is the total attribute or characteristics of something including every part of that thing...


So lets examine that Philippians again.


taking the form of a servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

That form was in the likeness of MEN

Sum requires that he is IMPERFECT and inherits Sin LIKE MEN.

Substance doesn't..

Emphasis on " Likeness of men "




Now let me answer your million in one question, does the Holy Spirit know?

1cor 2:11
For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the [b]thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

From scripture we know the Holy Spirit Knows the thoughts of God. So yes the Holy Spirit Knows the Hour, time,day the world would end.

[/b]

Hahahaha this liar has. Come again.

Okay what did Jesus say ?
Except the Father.


" NOBODY knows "

" NOBODY knows '.
So Jesus is lying ??

Continue to contradict , its a trait. Of liars

Abeg address that question again concerning your third person.



Act 1: 5-7
He specifically said knowing the times belong to the Father.



He claimed it. Emphasis on Because I SAID

If he doesn't it would have been when did I said ?

So much for comprehension . now you are asking for when he made the Statement . John said there many things he said that were not on record.

But Revelation confirms he said that

Unless you mean he lies that he said so.

Did he ?



Writer of Hebrew didn't disagree with Jon 38;7 , verse 9 said God anoint him among his fellows , who are his fellows ?

You have your answer .

Are angels not. called son of God at Job 38:7??

Funny , so funny




Liars cannot stand the truth, they will either somersault or keep telling more lies and catch themselves in their own web.

@ highlighted , Abeg how exactly did Yahweh create Abraham ?

that should settle this

So after all these long reply you couldn't still give a verse where Jesus addressed his father as Lord or as master?


We no everybody is a liar as far as they don't agree with the teaching of 8 uninspired and fallible men in new York aka gb.


You are still yet to give bible passages. You have been given only assumptions.

Barristter07:


Fully man [ Substance ] but without sin , and Miraculous conception . Lacks Sum

Sum definition:

You yourself said



the whole of something after all the different features or parts that it consists of are taken into account:


Putting this meaning there it says nature of something is the total attribute or characteristics of something including every part of that thing...


So lets examine that Philippians again.


taking the form of a servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

That form was in the likeness of MEN

Sum requires that he is IMPERFECT and inherits Sin LIKE MEN.

Substance doesn't..

Emphasis on " Likeness of men "



Hahahaha this liar has. Come again.

Okay what did Jesus say ?
Except the Father.


" NOBODY knows "

" NOBODY knows '.
So Jesus is lying ??

Continue to contradict , its a trait. Of liars

Abeg address that question again concerning your third person.



Act 1: 5-7
He specifically said knowing the times belong to the Father.



He claimed it. Emphasis on Because I SAID

If he doesn't it would have been when did I said ?

So much for comprehension . now you are asking for when he made the Statement . John said there many things he did that were not on record.

But Revelation confirms he said that

Unless you mean he lies that he said so.

Did he ?



Writer of Hebrew didn't disagree with Jon 38;7 , verse 9 said God anoint him among his fellows , who are his fellows ?

You have your answer .

Are angels not. called son of God at Job 38:7??

Funny , so funny




Liars cannot stand the truth, they will either somersault or keep telling more lies and catch themselves in their own web.

@ highlighted , Abeg how exactly did Yahweh create Abraham ?

that should settle this

Let me answer you:

JESUS became Fully Man and without Sin, Man originally was Without Sin, Adam before the Fall was Without Sin, after the Fall sin came to play. JESUS CAME WITHOUT SIN AS WAS THE FIRST MAN FROM THE GARDEN, GOD DIDNT CREATE ADAM TO BE IMPERFECT.

So Jesus was in sum and Substance is Fully Man, original Man,perfect man.


You asked a "million in one Question" that did the Spirit Know, I pointed out to you that Yes He did because He knows the thoughts of God....

To further continue your stupidity after rejecting the Word of God, the verse that says the Spirit Knows the thoughts of God, you continued by saying Christ said no one knows except the Father.

Now get this The Holy Spirit Hasn't been fully sent to the world yet, He was with the Father and as such one with the Father. The Spirit of God is the same as Him and that was why Paul said who knoweth the thoughts of a man except the Spirit of man within him.. Likewise The Spirit of God that was within God, who wasn't yet made Manifest to the Church was and is one with God...

The Holy Spirit was sent to us and was made Manifest to the Church , He is the allos parakletos (John 14:16) meaning
‘another of the same kind’ as Christ, in contrast to ‘heteros’ meaning ‘another of a different kind’. So Jesus after leaving sent us the Holy Spirit. So the Spirit who wasnt fully made manifest could not have been mentioned.


You made a claim that Jesus said He doesn't know the time even when He resurrected

I asked where he was asked and He said He doesn't know after the resurrection?

You quoted Acts 1:5 -7, let's look at the scriptures,

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Acts 1:6‭-‬7 KJV

JESUS NEVER said it is not for you and I to know the times or the seasons which the Father has put in His own Power but rather He said it is not for YOU to know....

JESUS NEVER CLAIMED HE DIDNT KNOW.



JESUS NEVER said he was the Son of God when He walked this earth.

Good, now you understand my question after so long,

You run back to revelation because You clearly can't answer John 10 which you were so sure of since we started this argument, Now evident you are doubting yourself, let me tell this, we know what we talk of and what claims we make. You obviously don't know what you talk of.

I pointed out to you that Jesus Never said He was the Son of God when He walked the Earth. After resurrection Jesus says He's the Son of God and not only that, He said He's the first and the last, Alpha and Omega, beginning and the End, the source of God's creation, Jesus now assumes His position as God. On Earth he did not equal Himself to God but He humbled himself.

I asked you where He made that statement

Your answer: John said there many things he did that were not on record.

So now you assumed He said it, you are arguing based on Assumption now , well since it's not in OUR SCRIPTURE THAT HE SAID THAT then it cannot be proven hence your answer makes no sense.


Begotten Son of God..

.... interesting... arguing with fools are quite interesting....

The writer of Hebrews was not the writer of Job, the writer of Hebrews said Jesus was the Begotten Son of God, the writer of Hebrews made it so clear that NO ANGEL was the Begotten of God. Job said Angels were the sons of God not begotten sons

I never said Angels were not called Sons of God but rather they are not begotten Sons or begotten Son.

Now to prove my case and not to dwell on ASSUMPTIONS WHICH BARRISTTER07 IS DOING NOW, I cited


For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 1:5‭-‬8 KJV


The writer of Hebrews didn't see it that way, no Angel was begotten of God as a Son. No angel was the Begotten Son of God. If there is kindly show me. Hebrews is clear that THE SON IS NOT AN ANGEL AND THAT THE SON IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN ONE. PERIOD UNLESS YOU DISAGREE WITH THE WRITER 

I said No angel is the begotten Son of God. You keep on saying Angels are sons of God, that is not the point, the point is NO ANGEL IS THE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.

So stop making a fool out of yourself when clearly you cannot show where angels are the begotten sons of God.

I pointed out to you that Jesus was not begotten when He became a man but was begotten before he walked the Earth


New American Standard Bible John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him


There were no fellows when Father Brought forth the Son, when the Son was begotten nothing was present, no creation was present, infact it was through the Son that All things were created. So where were the fellows then?

You see how stupidity leads You to ask foolish questions..

So yes angels are the sons of God BUT NO ANGEL IS THE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. PERIOD.



About Abraham and his begotten son Isaac,

I said 

Monogenes : begotten

Beget is to procreate or generate 


Isaac was Abrahams begotten Son, Abraham brought forth Isaac, Abraham generated Isaac. He asks how did Abraham beget Isaac, 
My answer 

through sexual intercourse of course, and I said BUT ABRAHAM DID NOT CREATE ISAAC. 

LIKEWISE GOD BROUGHT FORTH THE SON, GENERATED THE SON, BEGET THE SON. GOD DID NOT CREATE THE SON, JUST LIKE ABRAHAM DID NOT CREATE ISAAC EVEN THOUGH ISAAC WAS HIS BEGOTTEN SON.

Ignoring that He asked a rather stupid and irrelevant question, is Isaac created? 

To answer that:

Isaac was Abraham's begotten Son and not Yahweh's begotten Son, Abraham brought forth Isaac, Abraham generated Isaac. ABRAHAM DID NOT CREATE ISAAC. YAHWEH CREATED ABRAHAM SO YES YAHWEH CREATED ISAAC. Using the same analogy 

GOD BROUGHT FORTH THE SON, GENERATED THE SON, BEGET THE SON. GOD DID NOT CREATE THE SON.YAHWEH IS NOT CREATED SO THE SON CANNOT BE CREATED. 

So I've pointed out that since Isaac was Abraham's begotten and not Yahweh's he is a created being since Abraham his father is created but Jesus was the begotten Son of Yahweh not Abraham and since Yahweh is not created the Son cannot be created. 



In all the above i posted, you again stupidly ignored and went ahead to ask the most useless and foolish questions I have ever been asked. How did Yahweh create Abraham.

Yahweh formed him out of the ground and breathed the spirit of life into him and he became man a created being not a begotten Son. In answering a fool one must become one. I admit I am a fool to even answer this question..

What was your point



YOU HAVE TOTALLY FAILED TO PROVE AND SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS. ONLY THING I HEAR YOU SAY IS "FUNNY FUNNY"

TATIME:
That's a close one Sir but it's like there are more ATHEISTS in the house than i thought. You said "all religion is nothing but NONSENSE" and it's like some people agreed with you on that.
Well that's just by the way.
First of all "JEHOVAH was involved in WARS supporting the Israelites" YES! But let's find out why the spirit who claim to be the Creator of all things should be one-sided during conflicts? HE wanted to establish a nation that's not under the influence of Satan and his demons because Satan started ruling humans immediately after the incident in the Eden, this nation will serve as an example for all other nations as to what happened that led to worshipping different Gods, they must have DIVINE rules to distinguish them from all other races with human traditional laws, they must prove to be dedicated to their God and King. But Satan is organizing those nations under his control to stop all of that.
JEHOVAH made a name for HIMSELF by making the first and foremost world power to release HIS people without a military force. So even though Satan kept making one person or another as his human representative to rule the world, God wants all of them to leave the Israelites alone for the purpose HE brought them out of Egypt. That is why JEHOVAH kept doing things that will make them know that someone much more powerful than all their false Gods put together is behind Israel. If they're thinking that it's all coincidental then JEHOVAH will use just one Israelite to kill one thousand of HIS opposers. Instead of them to desist from attacking HIS people, they're planning different forms of military settings. Satan is using his agents to deceive them that the Israelites aren't invincible but JEHOVAH kept showing that HE is behind that little nation,until they killed the person that Moses promised saying "a prophet will rise amongst you just like me and you must listen to whatever he says". After killing most of the true prophets sent to them, they killed Jesus (the chief cornerstone) so God abandoned them and their nation.
Today the only reason that Israel still exist is because of the Bible, so that Satan won't be able to discard totally all that's written in the Bible.
When the Christian congregation began in the first century, they will never raise a weapon against anyone because they strongly believe that Christianity will go round and the only way to preserve the love amongst the worshippers of the true God is neutrality during conflicts. So Christians don't go to war until Satan started planting falsehood after the death of the Apostles. What Jesus told Christians is "FLEE" if some people are trying to take your territories as their personal possessions. Matthew 10:23
So true Christians have NO reason to take up arms for battle, that's why Apostle Paul reminded them saying "our warring is not against flesh and blood"(Ephesians 6:12)
Today true Christians are awaiting the coming of the great day of Jehovah, when HE will exterminate all those opposing HIS right to rule as King. NO Christian in the flesh is permitted to participate in this great battle because it's Jesus and the heavenly host that's coming to take vengeance against all those who has a hand in the killing of God's faithful prophets both of ancient times and present! Revelations 19:11-21 compared to Matthew 11:49-51
As for Caesar and what belongs to him. Well that means the respect,honor and fear of those in Superior authorities (Romans 13:7) but when such ones gives orders that conflicts with God's will,then Christians will emphatically say NO! Act 5:29 You can't just give me orders to take up weapons against my fellowman due to your political ambitions, that's why NO other religious group has the love that permeates the congregations of Jehovah's witnesses. We will never take up arms against our fellow man! If our fellow man takes up weapons to kill us, we'll flee because we're sure that Satan is the one controlling them by means of POLITICTS. We must not kill our fellow man for no reason whatsoever! And if eventually we are killed while running away, we're certain of a resurrection that's why we'll rather allow the one under Satan's influence to kill us than kill first, since that one's hope is a change of heart. Acts 7:58-60 Stephen's prayer was heard that is why Saul later became Apostle Paul and he regretted all that he did against the true worshippers of God. Act 26:4-11
How would Paul have had the opportunity of writing all those mind-blowing letters that true Christians are reading today if Stephen have taken up arms to fight back? Today both Paul and Stephen are good examples for true Christians!
Saluting the flag and national anthem started in the days of Nebuchadnezzar. So true Christians know that Satan is using those settings to create hatred amongst the human race! You'll stand to say lofty things about your country, while another man will do the same for his country. And when there is conflicts between politicians, you'll be willing with all your might and soul to kill someone you never knew.
Well you've said it all. Jehovah's Witnesses is the best to PRACTICE and promote PEACE in our world, just that you don't understand why we avoid certain things!

Irrelevant...

Barristter07:


We know you are a liar . so whoever takes your post serious without checking the facts is doing themselves.

Again , The Most high cannot call anyone Lord.

Lack of Bible knowledge is affecting you, Lord means Master! The Most High cannot have a master. have you read where Jesus used the Fact that someone higher cannot call another subordinate to him Lord to prove a point at Psalm 110:1 ? Have you ?


Jesus was telling his. Opposers that its impossible for David to call the Messiah " Lord " if he is just a son. He must BE HIGHER than David. They grab the logic and couldn't respond.
( Luke 20:41-44)

Unless u mean Jesus logic is useless. , I stand with Jesus and 1 Cor 15:27 . Its impossible for Yahweh to call anyone Lord . he is the most high!

Argue with Jesus u are free, I guess Jesus is assuming Face the Facts

You not proven that Jesus called Yahweh Master or Lord.. Where did Jesus call Yahweh His Lord or Master?

Gruni1234:


Hi, so I can deduce that you've accepted my remarks on the Pharoah verse you quoted as invalid right? It seems there was no rebuttal there. Good to know, we are heading somewhere.

I believe you are all running around in circles, when you confront each other, a topic must be picked, supported or debated by those for or against it. Then we will have a head way. Now I asked you what linguistical prove do you have to reject the other versions of the Bible, some versions which you yourself used like the KJV.


Point 2. Have been made clear from the other side that Christ was both God and Man. So as Man he's subjected to God and as God he's equal in nature. That fact has been made well proven.

Point 3-4. Guess appropriate answer is Jesus was man on Earth so saying the Father is greater than Him makes sense to ME because humanly speaking my Father is greater than me because He is my head and have more authority than me.

Thomas was an apostle right? Of Christ right? So this affirms that the apostles saw Christ as God. Thomas needn't call him Almighty God, most of the Apostles infact did not call God almighty. So you affirm that Christ is God since Thomas called Him God. Good that was easy. So we again making a head way.

Now Can you answer my question:

what linguistical prove do you have to reject the other versions of the Bible, some versions which you yourself used like the KJV.

Thank you.

Thomas was an apostle and a jew who recognised and saw Yahweh as the only God. If He called Christ my God then it can only be that he recognised Christ as Yahweh.

As you rightly said, Thomas was an apostle of Christ, yes

Thomas called Christ God? Yes

This affirms the Apostles saw Christ as God? Yes Sir/madam

Most of the Apostles didn't call God almighty, yes a trustworthy claim.

Yes they affirm that Christ is God because Thomas the Apostle called him God.

Gruni1234:
The bible clearly says Jesus is God in John 1:1, "..And the Word was God". that should settle everything. But it amuses me why you people still debate on this issue.

Rightly so but they reject it, and say Jesus was "a god" and worse they came up with their own translation that says that and the Word was a god. NWT.

That is why they reject and as educated,loving and patient as we are, we allow them the benefit of that doubt to still prove to them that Jesus is God according to other verses.

Like when Thomas call him God, they couldn't remove that from their bible so we can use that against them..maybe some generations to come they might remove it

zodiakzax:



You not proven that Jesus called Yahweh Master or Lord.. Where did Jesus call Yahweh His Lord or Master?

Comprehension issues, Explain the term " Lord of heaven and earth "

And lets see if Jesus didn't call him Lord



Meanwhile, don't digress from the original issue which is the one sent at Isaiah 48:16 is not Yahweh, Yahweh has No Lord but the one sent calls him Lord..

zodiakzax:




Let me answer you:

JESUS became Fully Man and without Sin, Man originally was Without Sin, Adam before the Fall was Without Sin, after the Fall sin came to play. JESUS CAME WITHOUT SIN AS WAS THE FIRST MAN FROM THE GARDEN, GOD DIDNT CREATE ADAM TO BE IMPERFECT.

So Jesus was in sum and Substance is Fully Man, original Man,perfect man.

" Likeness of MEN " Plural

Are men sinners or perfect ?

You asked a "million in one Question" that did the Spirit Know, I pointed out to you that Yes He did because He knows the thoughts of God....

To further continue your stupidity after rejecting the Word of God, the verse that says the Spirit Knows the thoughts of God, you continued by saying Christ said no one knows except the Father.

Now get this The Holy Spirit Hasn't been fully sent to the world yet, He was with the Father and as such one with the Father. The Spirit of God is the same as Him and that was why Paul said who knoweth the thoughts of a man except the Spirit of man within him.. Likewise The Spirit of God that was within God, who wasn't yet made Manifest to the Church was and is one with God...

The Holy Spirit was sent to us and was made Manifest to the Church , He is the allos parakletos (John 14:16) meaning
‘another of the same kind’ as Christ, in contrast to ‘heteros’ meaning ‘another of a different kind’. So Jesus after leaving sent us the Holy Spirit. So the Spirit who wasnt fully made manifest could not have been mentioned.

Somersault ,

Jesus said NOBODY knows , Does this not prove holy spirit is not a person ?

If holyspirit is a person, abeg why didn't it know .? Why would Jesus said NOBODY except the father ?

Hahahahaha

You made a claim that Jesus said He doesn't know the time even when He resurrected

I asked where he was asked and He said He doesn't know after the resurrection?

You quoted Acts 1:5 -7, let's look at the scriptures,

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Acts 1:6‭-‬7 KJV

JESUS NEVER said it is not for you and I to know the times or the seasons which the Father has put in His own Power but rather He said it is not for YOU to know....

JESUS NEVER CLAIMED HE DIDNT KNOW.

The Red says it all . so much for comprehension.

JESUS NEVER said he was the Son of God when He walked this earth.

Good, now you understand my question after so long,

You run back to revelation because You clearly can't answer John 10 which you were so sure of since we started this argument, Now evident you are doubting yourself, let me tell this, we know what we talk of and what claims we make. You obviously don't know what you talk of.

I pointed out to you that Jesus Never said He was the Son of God when He walked the Earth. After resurrection Jesus says He's the Son of God and not only that, He said He's the first and the last, Alpha and Omega, beginning and the End, the source of God's creation, Jesus now assumes His position as God. On Earth he did not equal Himself to God but He humbled himself.

I asked you where He made that statement

Your answer: John said there many things he did that were not on record.

So now you assumed He said it, you are arguing based on Assumption now , well since it's not in OUR SCRIPTURE THAT HE SAID THAT then it cannot be proven hence your answer makes no sense.


Begotten Son of God..

.... interesting... arguing with fools are quite interesting....

The writer of Hebrews was not the writer of Job, the writer of Hebrews said Jesus was the Begotten Son of God, the writer of Hebrews made it so clear that NO ANGEL was the Begotten of God. Job said Angels were the sons of God not begotten sons

I never said Angels were not called Sons of God but rather they are not begotten Sons or begotten Son.

Now to prove my case and not to dwell on ASSUMPTIONS WHICH BARRISTTER07 IS DOING NOW, I cited


For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 1:5‭-‬8 KJV


The writer of Hebrews didn't see it that way, no Angel was begotten of God as a Son. No angel was the Begotten Son of God. If there is kindly show me. Hebrews is clear that THE SON IS NOT AN ANGEL AND THAT THE SON IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN ONE. PERIOD UNLESS YOU DISAGREE WITH THE WRITER 

I said No angel is the begotten Son of God. You keep on saying Angels are sons of God, that is not the point, the point is NO ANGEL IS THE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.

So stop making a fool out of yourself when clearly you cannot show where angels are the begotten sons of God.

I pointed out to you that Jesus was not begotten when He became a man but was begotten before he walked the Earth


New American Standard Bible John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him


There were no fellows when Father Brought forth the Son, when the Son was begotten nothing was present, no creation was present, infact it was through the Son that All things were created. So where were the fellows then?

You see how stupidity leads You to ask foolish questions..

So yes angels are the sons of God BUT NO ANGEL IS THE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. PERIOD.



About Abraham and his begotten son Isaac,

I said 

Monogenes : begotten

Beget is to procreate or generate 


Isaac was Abrahams begotten Son, Abraham brought forth Isaac, Abraham generated Isaac. He asks how did Abraham beget Isaac, 
My answer 

through sexual intercourse of course, and I said BUT ABRAHAM DID NOT CREATE ISAAC. 

LIKEWISE GOD BROUGHT FORTH THE SON, GENERATED THE SON, BEGET THE SON. GOD DID NOT CREATE THE SON, JUST LIKE ABRAHAM DID NOT CREATE ISAAC EVEN THOUGH ISAAC WAS HIS BEGOTTEN SON.

Ignoring that He asked a rather stupid and irrelevant question, is Isaac created? 

To answer that:

Isaac was Abraham's begotten Son and not Yahweh's begotten Son, Abraham brought forth Isaac, Abraham generated Isaac. ABRAHAM DID NOT CREATE ISAAC. YAHWEH CREATED ABRAHAM SO YES YAHWEH CREATED ISAAC. Using the same analogy 

GOD BROUGHT FORTH THE SON, GENERATED THE SON, BEGET THE SON. GOD DID NOT CREATE THE SON.YAHWEH IS NOT CREATED SO THE SON CANNOT BE CREATED. 

So I've pointed out that since Isaac was Abraham's begotten and not Yahweh's he is a created being since Abraham his father is created but Jesus was the begotten Son of Yahweh not Abraham and since Yahweh is not created the Son cannot be created. 



In all the above i posted, you again stupidly ignored and went ahead to ask the most useless and foolish questions I have ever been asked. How did Yahweh create Abraham.

Yahweh formed him out of the ground and breathed the spirit of life into him and he became man a created being not a begotten Son. In answering a fool one must become one. I admit I am a fool to even answer this question..

What was your point



YOU HAVE TOTALLY FAILED TO PROVE AND SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS. ONLY THING I HEAR YOU SAY IS "FUNNY FUNNY"

You are feeling the heat , sorry.

Truth is bitter I guess.

Both Jesus and the angels are termed " Sons of God "

Why? They are all created. Unless you mean angels are not created.

" Begotten ". Doesnt change this fact . Abraham has many other Sons as well , but only Isaac was regarded as begotten , it never means Isaac was NOT procreated by sexual intercourse like all other sons

The question I asked about How Yahweh created Abraham wasn't foolish, its because you saw it would wound you .

Same person claiming Isaac isn't created by could Claim Abraham is a created being. , Did Terah Create Abraham or Beget him ? If he was begotten too, why do you Still say Abraham was Created? !!!

Face the fact

Barristter07:


Comprehension issues, Explain the term " Lord of heaven and earth "

And lets see if Jesus didn't call him Lord



Meanwhile, don't digress from the original issue which is the one sent at Isaiah 48:16 is not Yahweh, Yahweh has No Lord but the one sent calls him Lord..

So you have stylishly avoided quoting the bible verse where Jesus addressed jehovah as lord or as master. OK.

Now you have brought us to Isaiah again when they start firing you from this verse you quoted you will then run to new testament. I just dey look and laugh.

Well, when you feel you know bible only to see you don't know jack you begin to run from pillar to post.

I am not surprised to see this come from someone who believes some 8 old men in new York are the only channel of communication between God and man today and also only joining the organization these old men head guarantees his salvation because the 8 old men told him so.

Barristter07:


" Likeness of MEN " Plural

Are men sinners or perfect ?



Somersault ,

Jesus said NOBODY knows , Does this not prove holy spirit is not a person ?

If holyspirit is a person, abeg why didn't it know .? Why would Jesus said NOBODY except the father ?

Hahahahaha



The Red says it all . so much for comprehension.



You are feeling the heat , sorry.

Truth is bitter I guess.

Both Jesus and the angels are termed " Sons of God "

Why? They are all created. Unless you mean angels are not created.

" Begotten ". Doesnt change this fact . Abraham has many other Sons as well , but only Isaac was regarded as begotten , it never means Isaac was NOT procreated by sexual intercourse like all other sons

The question I asked about How Yahweh created Abraham wasn't foolish, its because you saw it would wound you .

Same person claiming Isaac isn't created by could Claim Abraham is a created being. , Did Terah Create Abraham or Beget him ? If he was begotten, why do you Still say Abraham was Created?

Men are sinners and
Jesus Christ was man here on earth.
Barrister07 says since Jesus was man so he was a sinner and he was imperfect.

Abeg is this one new light? Or did your gb say Jesus Christ is a sinner and imperfect so that their (gb) being uninspired, imperfect and fallible is accepted?

Is it that gb wants their errors in doctrinal matters and organizational direction accepted?

Barrister07 has now written his own bible in his head stating Jesus Christ is a sinner and imperfect.