₦airaland Forum

MissRaine69:
My grandmother ( a retired obstetrician) speaks 7 languages fluently but her commmand of conversational English is not that brilliant
She is by far one of the most intelligent woman I know.
Albert Einstein was not proficient in English he struggled with learning lanaguages so not sure how you equate learning and speaking English to being intelligent.

Was Albert Einstein thought English from his elementary school? Or did he learn it during adulthood? And we all know Albert had Dyslexia and so his struggle with learning languages

Your granny may not have learnt English as a toddler. Understand my point.

MissRaine69:
No I am not but I make allowances for those who struggle with the lanaguage. Having a good command does not give you respect that is a quintessential Nigerian/African trait to believe that bs !No native English speaker will laugh or make an issue because someone struggles with the intrinsic aspects of English grammar. That is what we do to each other.

So do I. Once you can be understood, you're good to go with me.

Even among native speakers, your ability to use any language well confers respect upon you - doesn't matter if it's English, Yoruba or Mandarin. I have a cousin I defer to for his exceptional mastery of my mother tongue. Being good at anything at all confers respect - there's nothing African or colonial about that. The only point you can make is that we tend to fixate too much on "English" and carry on as if not being fluent in English is a disability. That is true but it can't be helped as long as English is our language of secular education. People feel the need to encourage kids to do well in English - if we're using it we might as well use it well.

Simpubozz:
and what do you suggest we could do as a nation to overwrite this orientation?

I'm not the best person to ask this question cos I'm neither for nor against the argument.

My position is that whilst English fluency may not be a good measure of intelligence, it can still to a large extent be used to qualitatively gauge a person's aptitude.

SANDAT:
Sorry, you failed to take into cognisance the environment she lives and the schools she attended. where i come from children dont speak English amongs themselves even at school not to talk of home. But yet we find some who do very well in all subjects but written or spoken English.

Nope! I didnt overlook that. English fluency may not be a good measure of intelligence, but it can still to a large extent be used to qualitatively gauge a person's aptitude (i.e. their ability to learn).

I really doubt you saw the so called tweet by the corper girl the Op is talking about. Even if the girl was raised in a cave by gorillas, the very fact that she's attended a primary school, secondary and a tertiary institution, there's a basic level of English command (doesnt have to be excellent) that is expected of the individual irrespective of if she lived in a cave.

TonyeBarcanista:
Were you taught tenses, grammar, comprehension, writing etc in your native language? NO

Was your organisation education done in your native language? NO

Is your native language the language of business in Nigeria? NO

So having terrible command of the English language is a pointer that the person isn't intelligent.

You are messing up.

VictorRomanov:
Was Albert Einstein thought English from his elementary school? Or did he learn it during adulthood? And we all know Albert had Dyslexia and so his struggle with learning languages

Your granny may not have learnt English as a toddler. Understand my point.

English is still a foreign language in Nigeria how many Nigerians grow up speaking English as a first language?

agbajor27:
That is it! A person who, after being taught for over twelve years using english language, and cannot communicate well using thesame language can rightly be regarded as unintelligent.

Rubbish....the ability to master a language is not universal nor is it a gage to determine intelligence

MissRaine69:
English is still a foreign language in Nigeria how many Nigerians grow up speaking English as a first language?

That's the point I am making. You probably should read thru my initial quote. I mentioned "being taught adequately from primary school".

You cant fault a person who's never been properly taught a language and use his inability to speak it well as a sign of his being intelligent. But like any other subject matter, if someone has been taught adequately and still dont know how to do it well, what would you call the person.

aaronson:
Most people say English isnt a measurement of intelligence, well that's their opinion. Personally, i equate people style of enunciation to match thier level of intelligence quotient, I never get it wrong when i put you in a category of IQ range using your communication skill.

Here is the logic.

The more you read or get exposed to more vocabulary, you learn more words to easily express yourself. Which is in great contrast to people who weren't exposed to too many vocabulary hence, it gets difficult to express themselves and this often leads to conflict, misjudgement or even trouble because you lack the capability to express yourself due to few words in your brain.

Even from this post I can pinpoint some errors!

1."Thier" in place of "their"

2. "Level of their intelligence quotient" is a tautology, instead you simply use
"intelligence quotient "


So, does it mean you are not intelligent for making the above errors

MissRaine69:
Rubbish....the ability to master a language is not universal nor is it a gage to determine intelligence

Well, repeated exposure of a subject to something shld normally result in mastery of the said thing. If mastery is nt attained by the subject, intelligence can be questioned, and rightly too.

Is Yoruba, Igbo and Hausa a measure of Intelligence? Your answer to this is same to English.

It's not the ability to speak the "English language" fluently that is a marker of intelligence. What is a marker of intelligence is the ability to use any standard language proficiently.

In short, your level of proficiency, both in writing and speaking, is proportional to your intelligence.

So, if you're a Nigerian who can't write and speak English well enough, and you claim you're intelligent, you will only be right if there's another standard language you speak and write impeccably.

"the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills" is termed intelligence.
It will be obvious to see that when it comes to Nigeria,with English as her second language,it will be not wrong to use English as a measure of intelligence since it is a guage for aptitude.

StylesX:
You don't understand me dear, i am the one disagreeing with the notion, i told her English is a measure of intelligence but she is disagreeing, maybe she can't speak English too.

You must b foolish and slavish if u believe fluency in English is a measure of intelligence..... What about the Japanese, Chinese , Italians ,Russians etc that produce many things the world use....are they fluent in English?...
I know u must b Igbo... That is the mentality that has made some of them abandon their culture and language just bc they think it makes them appear intelligent.... But I pity them just as I pity u now because ur education so far, has been a waste..trust me

nwele2017:
"the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills" is termed intelligence.
It will be obvious to see that when it comes to Nigeria,with English as her second language,it will be not wrong to use English as a measure of intelligence since it is a guage for aptitude.

So u mean ur forefathers that couldn't speak the English language were not intelligent? U r indeed not educated yet

VictorRomanov:
That's the point I am making. You probably should read thru my initial quote. I mentioned "being taught adequately from primary school".

You cant fault a person who's never been properly taught a language and use his inability to speak it well as a sign of his being intelligent. But like any other subject matter, if someone has been taught adequately and still dont know how to do it well, what would you call the person.

I call that person , a person not being able to speak English does not earn them the “unintelligent” label.
It’s only black people that do this sort of thing to each other that’s how deep the infriority complex is.
We are not going to agree on this simple as.

nwele2017:
"the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills" is termed intelligence.
It will be obvious to see that when it comes to Nigeria,with English as her second language,it will be not wrong to use English as a measure of intelligence since it is a guage for aptitude.

So all the African kingdoms that florished pre-English how do you explain their existence and success? Your mind is a sorry state of affairs.

Lonestar124:
And I put it to you English is not a measure intelligence.

Do you know English is a people language just like Igbo, Yoruba, Hausa?...An imposed English language can't be measure of intellectual to a any non-english person..Go to any English owned countries like Britain and others you'll highly discover an English man that speak fluent english but is completely intact with empty illogical Brain.I'm still waiting for when an average English man will be teach Igbo language and he'll write and speak it impeccably to the affirmation of slavery metalized blacks like one of you....no insult just my opinion.

You are one the few intelligent people in this thread..."I ma ihe "

First of what's Intelligence ?

Intelligence is defined as general cognitive problem-solving skills. A mental ability involved in reasoning, perceiving relationships and analogies, calculating, learning quickly… etc. ... 

Language Diversity as actually caused so many things in this Nation.

From my own perspective, using English language fluency to measure intelligence is a NO from me.

Using Ìbàdàn Market women as a case Study ;
Let me say most of them are not Educated.They don't go to school.
And to speak English language fluently might be very difficult for them.But,despite thier deficiency in speaking English language fluently they can sell thier goods ,they can actually calculate thier money and do the total account of thier income .
can we say because they can not speak English language they are not Intelligent ?

There is lady in my department in school she is very fluent when it comes to speaking English language .But,academically she is very poor when i say very poor to the extent that she was asked to face Panel when she involved in Examination malpractice during our last semester exam.
A guy in my department also is very good academically .But,when it comes to speaking English language fluently he is not too good at all.

just only a few can speak English language the way Native Speakers do speak thier language.
The English language will speak in Nigeria is a bastardized English language. Because most of us use "TONE" to pronounce English words . Since our indegineous Language is a "TONAL language".And English language is not a Tonal Language .
Stress,Intonation,Accent, we are bereft of it when it comes to Speaking English language .
Those who boast of thier English Accent do make a lots of grammatical Errors but because they have the accent people usually overlook it.

Don't even relate Fluency in English language with Intelligence because they are different Concepts entirely .

But,since English language is our official language ;At least to some extent we should be able to use it and construct simple sentences when it comes to communicating with people.

MissRaine69:
I call that person , a person not being able to speak English does not earn them the “unintelligent” label.
It’s only black people that do this sort of thing to each other that’s how deep the infriority complex is.
We are not going to agree on this simple as.

This is not just about English or French or yoruba. I am looking at it from the point of sending someone to school and he doesn't do well. Isn't that how people judge that someone is dull?

If only we know the level of damage this English speaking as our major in all institutions is ruining us in Africa we would all be crying.

How do you only measure intelligence with just the way people speak English. If its based on the standard of the school the person learned in school and same person could not perform or give results from such box it's understandable, because a skill not practiced is a skill not mastered.

This intellectual slavery have been kicked out of countries like Vietnam, China, India and the aborigines of Australia. We Africans are not even seeing the scourge of intellectual slavery in our lives and as people as a whole.

Intelligence is not measured by just speaking poshed English.


Lets get rid of this sick mentality please, you speak posh French, English,Portuguese or Dutch and be forming with another mans language, you are worse than a an slowpoke I you can't do same with your mothers native tongue.

Your language is your true identity let's we forget if we loose that identity we loose who we truly are.

Wake up Africa

VictorRomanov:
This is not just about English or French or yoruba. I am looking at it from the point of sending someone to school and he doesn't do well. Isn't that how people judge that someone is dull?

..

VictorRomanov:
This is not just about English or French or yoruba. I am looking at it from the point of sending someone to school and he doesn't do well. Isn't that how people judge that someone is dull?

And that is what’s wrong with this country. Basing acumen and intelligence on academia performances rather than focus on abilities as well.

MissRaine69:
And that is what’s wrong with this country. Basing acumen and intelligence on academia performances rather than focus on abilities as well.

Or maybe we should use brilliant instead of intelligent.

MissRaine69:
And that is what’s wrong with this country. Basing acumen and intelligence on academia performances rather than focus on abilities as well.

Or maybe we should use brilliant instead of intelligent.

In your opinion, no body is dull or unintelligent. They are just being tested with the wrong test, right?

TonyeBarcanista:
Were you taught tenses, grammar, comprehension, writing etc in your native language? NO

Was your organisation education done in your native language? NO

Is your native language the language of business in Nigeria? NO

So having terrible command of the English language is a pointer that the person isn't intelligent.

At First I Don't Want To Reply You But When I Noticed You Are Hell bent On This I Decided To Draw A Line With You.
See, Fluency In English Can't Be A Yardstick To Measure One Intelligence, Some People Are So Intelligent To The Extent That They Are Second To None ! But May Be As A Result Of Their Childhood Exprience, Fear Has Been Instilled In Them ! Do You By Any Means Decode My Point Here? They Usually Find It Difficult To Express Their Feelings Through The Spoken Words, But Give Them An Opportunity To Construct Their Feelings On A Writting Material, You Will Be Shock To Hell.
If You Don't Mind? I'm A Psychologist In The Making.

StylesX:
You don't understand me dear, i am the one disagreeing with the notion, i told her English is a measure of intelligence but she is disagreeing, maybe she can't speak English too.

english is not a measure of intelligence. Some are good in spoken english but poor in written one and 'vise versa'(sic). I have seen first-class students being poor in spoken english, and the fluent ones on 'pass degree' .

Dedetwo:
You simply cannot have the bolded sentences in this debate. You have one sentence with a qualifier and the other without a qualifier. You cannot eat your cake and have it. The fluency in English is not a measure of Intelligence period. I have come across people whose mother tongue is English language yet they score poorly in IQ test.

@ first bolded. The saying is "You cannot have your cake and eat it

@ second bolded, the fact that your mother tongue is English, does not make you fluent in it and neither does it mean you have any understanding of it.

My mother tongue is Igbo, but I know Hausa people who would level me in any Igbo competition.

An IQ test puts into consideration a myriad of knowledge and doesn't stick to one thing. And just like everything that has ever been created by humans, it doesn't tell the whole story.

hibiscus76:
Try fail English in Waec first

that's because it's our official language and, not because it's a measure of intelligence.

TonyeBarcanista:
Were you taught tenses, grammar, comprehension, writing etc in your native language? NO

Was your organisation education done in your native language? NO

Is your native language the language of business in Nigeria? NO

So having terrible command of the English language is a pointer that the person isn't intelligent.

I Mean No Harm, I Will Be Glad If You Can Give A Prescise Defination Of Intelligence First ! Those Village Elders That Give Accurate Verdict Even Without Any Or Little Evidence Are Not Intelligent Right? I Will Like To Use Your Opinion On This As A Case Study In My Forthcoming Tutorial.
Did You Mind Knowing The Topic Of My Tutorial?
Perceptual Illusion
Thanks In Advance.

VictorRomanov:
Or maybe we should use brilliant instead of intelligent.

In your opinion, no body is dull or unintelligent. They are just being tested with the wrong test, right?

Brilliance still leans towards academia
Ability and functionability for example if someone can learns how to play a guitar or the piano by simply listening that person is intelligent. If someone can read music as far as I am concerned they are a cut above someone who speaks English well.

obailala:
English fluency may not be an established measure of intelligence in the large scheme of things. However, in a country like Nigeria where English isn't our first language and where most people are first exposed to English language in schools, when other yardsticks of measurement are absent, an individuals command of English language can be used as a first pointer to measure the person's intelligence/aptitude.

With regards to the corper girl with the appalling English grammar, I'm sorry to say but she must be dumb. After attending different levels of school for at least 18 years of her life, if she can't still string together a simple decent sentence, or spell simple words correctly, then her aptitude for learning must be very low.

But you can not disregard other yardstick of measurement as you would most likely get it wrong. I'll use your logic as an example , we all know mathematical proficiency is low and more people ( at least 8 out of 10 ) are not really maths oriented but would it be wise to judge based on mathematical proficiency alone ?. While English may say something about the environment you grew up ( I'll come to that in a bit ) it shouldn't be used solely as a measure of intelligence.
Yes to a large extent speaking "good" English has a lot to do with where you were brought up , you won't expect a child who grew up in a rural environment to speak better English than one who grew up in Banana Island or even in England but we can not say the child who grew up in Ikoyi is more intelligent than the one who grew up in Aramoko.