₦airaland Forum

Hairyrapunzel:
Lol continue assuming. I am sure the same Thomas nelson also told you the Greek word pascha means Easter and passover.
At least the pascha is easter that's OK for me. It's not like some people that put a word where it's never seen. No Greek word for jehovah in the new testament yet they assumed and put it where it is never seen.

Sorry, the publisher's name is M.G Easton not Thomas Nelson

lordtim001:
I must hand it to you. You are very dedicated in researching things. But I put it to you that you cannot bring out one single doctrine that is not supported by scripture. The only thing you can say that I will agree to is that [b[misunderstanding of scriptures occur at times[/b]. The point is that there IS a scripture in the first place that enforces that thought

And we know that Mormons discredit the Bible but rely on Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon as their guide.

And sorry, my laptop is not with me, otherwise I would have pulled out that 1970 Awake from WT Library to read more about it. I'm really interested....Who was speaking there? And can I get the full article if possible

Misunderstanding of the scriptures is what brings about unscriptural doctrines.

lordtim001:
I must hand it to you. You are very dedicated in researching things. But I put it to you that you cannot bring out one single doctrine that is not supported by scripture. The only thing you can say that I will agree to is that [b[misunderstanding of scriptures occur at times[/b]. The point is that there IS a scripture in the first place that enforces that thought

And we know that Mormons discredit the Bible but rely on Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon as their guide.

And sorry, my laptop is not with me, otherwise I would have pulled out that 1970 Awake from WT Library to read more about it. I'm really interested....Who was speaking there? And can I get the full article if possible

Misunderstanding of the scriptures is what brings about unscriptural doctrines.
If none of your doctrines is unscriptural, then why do they get discarded over time and entirely new ones erected in their replacement?
The current doctrine that Christians are not to celebrate certain festivals are no where in the scriptures. I haven't seen where Jesus said we must not celebrate the anniversaries of His birth or death. I don't know of any scripture that forbids celebration of birthdays. All I keep hearing is that one encyclopedia says they are rooted in paganism.
But then a lot of things which God Himself used to showcase Himself were of pagan origins. For example, the name "Zion" was given to the mountain by the original pagan inhabitants of the land in dedication to their pagan god. However God later occupied the mountain as His dwelling place while retaining the pagan name Zion and had His sacred temple erected right on it. This is a proof of the belief of other Christians that the intention and new meaning behind any adopted practice is more important than its origin.

Also, the doctrine that forbids political participation by Christians is very unscriptural and outrightly man made.
In Rom. 16:23-24 Paul addressed Erastus as a fellow believer despite Erastus held a political office of City Treasurership within the government of an earthly kingdom.
In Philippians 4:22 Paul sent greetings to brethren who belonged to the Emperor's palace. To belong to a palace was to hold a political office in an earthly government.
In Acts 1:6 the disciples demanded of Jesus to know when the earthly kingdom of Israel would be restored for self governance. By that they were showing interest in how they were being politically governed. But rather than rebuke them, Jesus even assured them of a time when their political aspirantion would be fulfilled by God himself.
Now, with all the scriptural records above, how can it really be defended that the Bible is against Christian participation in politics?
I can list very many of your unscriptural doctrines and provide evidence from the scriptures. But I wait for you to address these ones first.

Deadlytruth:
Misunderstanding of the scriptures is what brings about unscriptural doctrines.
If none of your doctrines is unscriptural, then why do they get discarded over time and entirely new ones erected in their replacement?
The current doctrine that Christians are not to celebrate certain festivals are no where in the scriptures. I haven't seen where Jesus said we must not celebrate the anniversaries of His birth or death. I don't know of any scripture that forbids celebration of birthdays. All I keep hearing is that one encyclopedia says they are rooted in paganism.
But then a lot of things which God Himself used to showcase Himself were of pagan origins. For example, the name "Zion" was given to the mountain by the original pagan inhabitants of the land in dedication to their pagan god. However God later occupied the mountain as His dwelling place while retaining the pagan name Zion and had His sacred temple erected right on it. This is a proof of the belief of other Christians that the intention and new meaning behind any adopted practice is more important than its origin.

Also, the doctrine that forbids political participation by Christians is very unscriptural and outrightly man made.
In Rom. 16:23-24 Paul addressed Erastus as a fellow believer despite Erastus held a political office of City Treasurership within the government of an earthly kingdom.
In Philippians 4:22 Paul sent greetings to brethren who belonged to the Emperor's palace. To belong to a palace was to hold a political office in an earthly government.
In Acts 1:6 the disciples demanded of Jesus to know when the earthly kingdom of Israel would be restored for self governance. By that they were showing interest in how they were being politically governed. But rather than rebuke them, Jesus even assured them of a time when their political aspirantion would be fulfilled by God himself.
Now, with all the scriptural records above, how can it really be defended that the Bible is against Christian participation in politics?
I can list very many of your unscriptural doctrines and provide evidence from the scriptures. But I wait for you to address these ones first.

1 Corinthians 4 vs 6 and 7 tells us not to go beyond what is written. And we take this into consideration. Even when celebrating things that were not shed in negative light in the Bible, we make sure that they are free of any paganic influence. What you do not know is that some of these celebrations are deeply rooted in paganism. And God would not excuse ignorance. After all, He was still vexed despite the fact that the Israelites called the worship of the calf a festival to Jehovah at Exodus 32 vs 5. We know how that story ended

City treasurership was not an elected position. It is an appointed position. I know many Witnesses who are civil servants above level 12. They work in the government office but they weren't elected.This does not apply in this case. At John 6 vs 5, Jesus ran away when they wanted to make him king. You may argue that he avoided them because he would be straying away from his purpose of coming to the earth. But he later said that his Kingdom is no part of this world. Truth be told, the spirit of politics is one that a true Christian would stay away from. That's why you see people repeatedly lashing Osinbajo. Instead of pleasing God, he has to please people....

Deadlytruth:
Like I already said, your stupidity is legendary. You have been so manipulated by a mere publishing company that you are not capable of synthesis. Are you trying to imply that you haven't seen here that it is their souls we've been saying are already undergoing punishment? Were you not shown a verse in Revelation where souls of the departed righteous were speaking from heaven? It would have been more profitable for whoever sponsored your education to have simply thrown the money into a flowing stream. Idiot of a boy!

From a stupid boy who say Abraham and Lazarus is in heaven, deadlyliar .

undergoing punishment at where ?

u say hell .

now I will show u the real shocker.

Revelation 20:13 King James Version (KJV)
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

since hell is a place of suffering , why are those in the sea not there ? if souls are in hell , are souls trapped in the sea too ?

Deadlytruth:
See this comprehension deficiency minion of a manipulative publishing company still showcasing his looted brain. Go back and study my comments very well. The souls of the wicked are in punishment already while their bodies are still in the grave... Revelations 6:9; 20:4-5.

See something , their bodies are in the grave and you quote Rev 20:4-5, Your sense has forgotten u earlier said death and grave was used for devil ? their bodies are still with the devil ? Can u now see that u dont have any sense no matter how small. let me see you say devil mean grave in those text again .


are you by the bold saying Jesus lied ?

" soul and body in hell.” Matt 10 vs 28

according to Yeshua, Soul and body goes to hell together not Soul alone. Deadlytruth turn liar , Where do u get your own theory from ?

if those people presently suffering in hell, oga they will be there with their body , isnt it ? unless u create a different hell from the one in that text.

its scattering your head that works best now

Of course how would you have known that it was the devil that gave up the dead it held in the sense of living sinners who are held captive by Him when you refused to read the Hebrew verses I referenced? Even your fellow JW here agreed that 'death' there is in metaphorical reference to the devil yet you are disagreeing with that. Isn't that an evidence that JWs don't have identical beliefs and opinions on issues contrary to claims by Watchtower that all her members are united worldwide in opinions about biblical interpretations?
If you think death doesn't mean devil as used in that verse, why not also attack your fellow JW, Tatime, who shares my opinion on that? See how pathetically hypocritic and dishonest you lots are?

Revelations 19:20 says: "The beast was taken prisoner, together with the false prophet who had performed miracles in his presence. (It was by those miracles that he had deceived those who had the mark of the beast and those who had worshiped the image of the beast.) The beast and the false prophet were both thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur."

Now, according to you, the lake of fire simply means grave where those who will have already died the second death will be sent to. But how come the beast and false prophets were thrown alive into the grave (your own meaning of lake of fire) without having died a second death first? Care to explain this contradiction, Zombie?

lake of fire , this IS second death. says your Bible stupid boy.

I still ask , How can an imaginary beast and imaginary false prophet ( Another beast Rev 13: 11-16 ) be thrown into a Real fire ? if both are representation , what does the lake of fire represent ? if your sense isnt freezing u should understand that lake of fire is a representation of end of existence. just as death end a life either man or animal .

Deadlytruth:
Misunderstanding of the scriptures is what brings about unscriptural doctrines.

just as misunderstanding led you to switching between grave and devil in the same Text . u will say grave, later u will say its devil .

just as misunderstanding lead you to telling us lie here that Abraham and Lazarus are in heaven.

same misunderstanding lead you to sayinh soul are presently suffering whereas what Jesus said is Soul and body . u are in soup

Peacefullove:
just as misunderstanding led you to switching between grave and devil in the same Text . u will say grave, later u will say its devil .

just as misunderstanding lead you to telling us lie here that Abraham and Lazarus are in heaven.

same misunderstanding lead you to sayinh soul are presently suffering whereas what Jesus said is Soul and body . u are in soup

You are only reeling from the pain of the embarrassment you have received from the dismantling of all the falsehood you came to present as truth. Are you tired of referencing Bible verses in isolation?

Peacefullove:
See something , their bodies are in the grave and you quote Rev 20:4-5, Your sense has forgotten u earlier said death and grave was used for devil ? their bodies are still with the devil ? Can u now see that u dont have any sense no matter how small. let me see you say devil mean grave in those text again .


are you by the bold saying Jesus lied ?

" soul and body in hell.” Matt 10 vs 28

according to Yeshua, Soul and body goes to hell together not Soul alone. Deadlytruth turn liar , Where do u get your own theory from ?

if those people presently suffering in hell, oga they will be there with their body , isnt it ? unless u create a different hell from the one in that text.

its scattering your head that works best now





lake of fire , this IS second death. says your Bible stupid boy.

I still ask , How can an imaginary beast and imaginary false prophet ( Another beast Rev 13: 11-16 ) be thrown into a Real fire ? if both are representation , what does the lake of fire represent ? if your sense isnt freezing u should understand that lake of fire is a representation of end of existence. just as death end a life either man or animal .

Cry me a river! You have been mauled, bursted and demolished. You didn't say anything new in the above response but just repeating your earlier rantings like a broken record player, neither did you address any of the posers raised.
So the false prophets have become imaginary again? I thought your publishing company already says all other Christian groups are the false prophets? So all those other Christian groups are imaginary?
Yes I said grave and death are used metaphorically in some verses in reference to the devil and I substantiated it with citations in Hebrews. Is your brain paining you that you can't just look it up?
I repeat, if lake of fire means the destination of those that will have died a physical second death, then how come the false prophet and the beast were thrown into it alive?

Matthew 10:28 says: Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather be afraid of God, who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

If humans can kill the body but can't kill the soul, doesn't that tell you clearly that when a person dies, his body goes to the grave while his soul remains alive and moves to either heaven or hell fire for judgement, and on the last day both his body and soul get punished by God?
Didn't Paul the Apostle say in Hebrews 9:27 that: "For man is destined to die, and judgement follows thereafter"? How does judgement follow thereafter if both his body and soul go to the grave and remain there? Do God and the angels go to meet the person in his grave and judge him there or that a part of the person (the soul) goes to meet God and the angels at His throne to face judgement? Which between these two make more sense?
If lake of fire means grave as you are struggling and sweating to make us believe, then how come grave was cast into the lake of fire, i.e. grave was buried in a grave? Can't you see you are demented and suffering from manipulation as a Zombie?
And you have kept on avoiding my question that "Will you be bold enough to stick to this your current position the day your manipulators suddenly tell you they've seen a brighter light and adjust what you currently believe about hell and grave?" Until you answer this, you remain a big fool.

lordtim001:
1 Corinthians 4 vs 6 and 7 tells us not to go beyond what is written. And we take this into consideration.

But don't you think that you people's use of Encyclopediae and other human sources of knowledge in defending your beliefs actually makes you guilty of going beyond what is written in the Bible?
1 Corinthians 4:6-7 didn't say anything in relation to your claim above. Here it is:
For your sake, my friends, I have applied all this to Apollos and me, using the two of us as an example, so that you may learn what the saying means, *Observe the proper rules.* None of you should be proud of one person and despise another. 7. Who made you superior to others? Didn't God give you everything you have? Well, then, how can you boast, as if what you have were not a gift?

lordtim001:
Even when celebrating things that were not shed in negative light in the Bible, we make sure that they are free of any paganic influence.

Let us take weddings for example of an event which is not shed in negative light in the Bible; the scriptures make it clear that weddings in biblical times were never conducted inside the temple but in the homes of the groom. The one attended by Jesus in Cana of Galilee is a prominent example. Jesus' parable of the man who celebrated his son's wedding in his own house was yet another evidence.
The conduct of wedding inside worship places originated from among pagans. But today JWs too conduct their weddings inside their worship houses? And you tell me you avoid practices with paganistic roots?
And do you think there is really any modern secular practice today not rooted directly or indirectly in paganism?
The exchange of wedding rings is paganistic in origin just like the wearing of white flowing gown by the bride. But you JWs don't forbid these in your weddings despite being 'aversed' to things rooted in pagan traditions.

lordtim001:
What you do not know is that some of these celebrations are deeply rooted in paganism. And God would not excuse ignorance. After all, He was still vexed despite the fact that the Israelites called the worship of the calf a festival to Jehovah at Exodus 32 vs 5. We know how that story ended

Before the Isreaelites did that in Exodus 32:5, God had already told them in Exodus 20:3 not to do such so they weren't ignorant as you would have us believe. Moreover they described the calf as god not God. The mere fact that they even made an image onto themselves at all against one of the Ten Commandments already given them is enough evidence that they contravened a very clear instruction which they weren't ignorant of.
Like I have already explained with the name 'Zion' which origin is paganistic but is now used by God and Jesus to connote their faithful servants, the intention behind the use of anything is more important than its origin.
Do you know that intramural system of education is paganistic in origin as it was the system by which pagan tribes taught their newly recruited soldiers the art of war and the effective use of weapons in preparation for wars? It was later spread to cover non-military professions like Engineering, Medicine, Accountancy, etc. JWs receive education through intramural system (i.e. schools) today and bag from them degrees with which they fend for themselves despite that system has its origin rooted in paganism.

lordtim001:
City treasurership was not an elected position. It is an appointed position. I know many Witnesses who are civil servants above level 12. They work in the government office but they weren't elected.This does not apply in this case.

There is also political appointment which is not civil service appointment but a reward for partisan political participation. It is like being appointed as minister of finance.
Those brethren who were part of the Emperor's palace in Philipians 4:22 could not have been civil servants going by what it means to be part of or to belong to a government.

lordtim001:
At John 6 vs 5, Jesus ran away when they wanted to make him king. You may argue that he avoided them because he would be straying away from his purpose of coming to the earth.

Jesus'rejection of the offer doesn't translate to an instruction against political participation. His acceptance would have jeopardized his mission to die for sins. Are other Christians on earth to die for sins too? Just like how Jesus decision to have got married would have derailed his mission, but that doesn't automatically translate to marriage being wrong for Christians.

lordtim001:
But he later said that his Kingdom is no part of this world.

Jesus would himself later clarify this issue of His (in the sense of Him alone) kingdom being not of this world when in response to his disciples question about the restoration of the earthly Israelite Kingdom to them, he assured them of the time when the Father would answer their prayers.

lordtim001:
Truth be told, the spirit of politics is one that a true Christian would stay away from.

That is an assumption not a truth.
And you think any human affair is worth participating in if we are to use your assumption of their corruptive influences? Even the civil service is more corrupt than partisan politics. In fact the civil service, by its very nature and the laws guiding it, is an institution that statutorily works for politicians and defends their interests. So on what premise would you separate the two?

lordtim001:
That's why you see people repeatedly lashing Osinbajo. Instead of pleasing God, he has to please people....

Even the civil service among whom there are JWs and their congratulation leaders is bashed as the engine room of corruption in Nigeria and is generally perceived worldwide as an establishment in which you can't work and still serve God conscientiously.

Peacefullove:
From a stupid boy who say Abraham and Lazarus is in heaven, deadlyliar .

undergoing punishment at where ?

u say hell .

now I will show u the real shocker.

Revelation 20:13 King James Version (KJV)
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

since hell is a place of suffering , why are those in the sea not there ? if souls are in hell , are souls trapped in the sea too ?

Look at this fool. Did the verse say "And hell fire delivered the souls of the dead which were in it"?
Go and read the Bible with an independent mind and stop dancing to the ever changing tunes of your manipulators? If lake of fire means grave, then how come grave was thrown into it, i.e. grave was thrown into a grave. Can you bury a grave inside another grave? Foolish Zombie!

Deadlytruth:
Look at this fool. Did the verse say "And hell fire delivered the souls of the dead which were in it"?
Go and read the Bible with an independent mind and stop dancing to the ever changing tunes of your manipulators? If lake of fire means grave, then how come grave was thrown into it, i.e. grave was thrown into a grave. Can you bury a grave inside another grave? Foolish Zombie!

This is where you're so good "returning insults for insults and abuse for abuse"
No wonder it's ONLY Jehovah's Witnesses who have the impetus to come preaching and teaching people IN THEIR HOMES politely,tactfully,respectfully and with efficacy!
Hmmmmmmmm now i know why all of you are nonedenominational noise~makers in our streets,since you can't defend what you carry in your head as beliefs!
Before after making so much noise disturbing the decorum in the peaceful neighbourhod,your folks will say "i belong to so and so church" but now that all your Pastors have disappointed you with their greed, all of you are now claiming nonedenominational since shame won't allow you to mention your former defrauding centers where you've been robbed and raped repeatedly!
Sorry o, We're Jehovah's Witnesses and we'll continue to come knocking on your door with confidence!

TATIME:
This is where you're so good "returning insults for insults and abuse for abuse"
No wonder it's ONLY Jehovah's Witnesses who have the impetus to come preaching and teaching people IN THEIR HOMES politely,tactfully,respectfully and with efficacy!
Hmmmmmmmm now i know why all of you are nonedenominational noise~makers in our streets,since you can't defend what you carry in your head as beliefs!
Before after making so much noise disturbing the decorum in the peaceful neighbourhod,your folks will say "i belong to so and so church" but now that all your Pastors have disappointed you with their greed, all of you are now claiming nonedenominational since shame won't allow you to mention your former defrauding centers where you've been robbed and raped repeatedly!
Sorry o, We're Jehovah's Witnesses and we'll continue to come knocking on your door with confidence!

You hypocrite! You scold the person who is only returning the insults thrown at him but you ignore the person who is always first to throw the insults without any provocation just because he is one of your members. This is the smelly and disgusting hypocrisy which you JWs are known for. Of course I am not surprised. After all who expects decorum and civil responses from a people whose ever changing lies have been repeatedly bursted and dismantled with the scriptures?
Preaching in people's homes was forbidden by Jesus and you have been shown the Bible verse. So your continued grandstanding about it only showcases pride, arrogance and imperviousness to correction.
Of course what you enviously call disturbance of decorum in the neighborhood is the preaching and healing in public places as Jesus Himself did and commanded his followers to do. I guess Jesus disturbed public decorum? Keep blaspheming as we plead to God to forgive you for not knowing what you are saying.
If we feel disappointed with greed of some of our pastors and are honest and bold enough to say it out, aren't we therefore better than you who, though are utterly disappointed impoverished by the greed of your own organization and its leaders who out of greed and lust command you to donate to them all your investments, yet you are not able to openly disagree with them for fear that they will excommunicate you and shun you? At least our pastors don't excommunicate those who openly express disappointment in them.
The coming of the internet has helped in exposing the inconsistencies and brainwashing tactics of your dubious business oriented organization so much that the scales have started falling off the eyes of a lot of your members who have left it for the true message of Christ hence your financial fortune has begun to dwindle to the point of selling off your assets in New York and other parts of the world, and also putting in place mechanisms to check the leakage of information which expose your historical inconsistency. Why being afraid of information leak if your past and present is clean as expected of a genuine Christian organization? Do the other denominations care about leakage of information about them? Do they even classify as confidential anything about their history like Watchtower does?
You can keep knocking on doors to talk and talk and talk without any signs and wonders following you for confirmation of your talk against what the scriptures say. You can keep going from house to house for fear of persecution which the scriptures rather asks genuine Christians to gladly welcome and rejoice in. But we will continue being bold to stand in public places where we preach without fear of any authorities, and our words confirmed with signs and wonders of healings to the sick, casting out of demons, etc like the Apostles did. You have the right to remain envious of us and therefore continue preaching from door to door out of such envy. But that rather gives us joy.... Philippians 1:18

Deadlytruth:
You hypocrite! You scold the person who is only returning the insults thrown at him but you ignore the person who is always first to throw the insults without any provocation just because he is one of your members. This is the smelly and disgusting hypocrisy which you JWs are known for. Of course I am not surprised. After all who expects decorum and civil responses from a people whose ever changing lies have been repeatedly bursted and dismantled with the scriptures?
Preaching in people's homes was forbidden by Jesus and you have been shown the Bible verse. So your continued grandstanding about it only showcases pride, arrogance and imperviousness to correction.
Of course what you enviously call disturbance of decorum in the neighborhood is the preaching and healing in public places as Jesus Himself did and commanded his followers to do. I guess Jesus disturbed public decorum? Keep blaspheming as we plead to God to forgive you for not knowing what you are saying.
If we feel disappointed with greed of some of our pastors and are honest and bold enough to say it out, aren't we therefore better than you who, though are utterly disappointed impoverished by the greed of your own organization and its leaders who out of greed and lust command you to donate to them all your investments, yet you are not able to openly disagree with them for fear that they will excommunicate you and shun you? At least our pastors don't excommunicate those who openly express disappointment in them.
The coming of the internet has helped in exposing the inconsistencies and brainwashing tactics of your dubious business oriented organization so much that the scales have started falling off the eyes of a lot of your members who have left it for the true message of Christ hence your financial fortune has begun to dwindle to the point of selling off your assets in New York and other parts of the world, and also putting in place mechanisms to check the leakage of information which expose your historical inconsistency. Why being afraid of information leak if your past and present is clean as expected of a genuine Christian organization? Do the other denominations care about leakage of information about them? Do they even classify as confidential anything about their history like Watchtower does?
You can keep knocking on doors to talk and talk and talk without any signs and wonders following you for confirmation of your talk against what the scriptures say. You can keep going from house to house for fear of persecution which the scriptures rather asks genuine Christians to gladly welcome and rejoice in. But we will continue being bold to stand in public places where we preach without fear of any authorities, and our words confirmed with signs and wonders of healings to the sick, casting out of demons, etc like the Apostles did. You have the right to remain envious of us and therefore continue preaching from door to door out of such envy. But that rather gives us joy.... Philippians 1:18

Hmmmmmmmmmm
Your FAKE miracles aren't making anything good out of it's adherents my friend,that's why all of your are claiming none~denominational
Most of you are hiding behind the lies "we are performing miracles" yet there is nothing worth emulating coming from your followers. Matthew 7:21-23
Jehovah's Witnesses are preaching and teaching what they know,and the number of dedicated adherents is approaching 9,000,000 globally while the whole earth can feel their presence even when no one can hear their voice in the streets! Matthew 12:19
Sorry Sir if it's not Jehovah's Witnesses{true Christians} it can never be that effective like the first century Christians!
When Jesus called those Pharisees "FOOLS". Matthew 23:17 They immediately became insultive without the slightest hesitation because that's what they are good at! John 8:44-48
For your information all the achievements of Jehovah's Witnesses is BOLDLY written everywhere! So keep arguing worthlessly in support of NO visible,reputable group while JWs are making millions to become subjected to our GB{the men Jesus is using today to gather His eathly subjects}!

Those above pics depicts how JWs are globally baptising hundreds of thousands who have studied the Bible with us and ACCEPTED to live their lives in harmony with what they've learnt! So even when some like you are calling it FALSE,millions are agreeing to live by it and are kept on the watch for further assistance to maintain their stand or disfellowshiped if they feels like discontinuing!
I can confidently tell you that none of those you're seeing will ever agree to
*carry weapons. Matthew 26:52
*participate in worldly politics. John 17:16
*polygamy. Matthew 19:5,6
*blood transfusion. Act 15:28,29
Just to mention few. This is what neither you,your former Pastors nor any of your none~denominational folks can do,rather you're claiming belief in Jesus WITHOUT anything sacred binding you together as one in FAITH! John 17:22
So continue arguing facelessly on social media while TRUE Christians are training and preparing the earthly subjects for our heavenly King{Christ Jesus}

Deadlytruth:
But don't you think that you people's use of Encyclopediae and other human sources of knowledge in defending your beliefs actually makes you guilty of going beyond what is written in the Bible?
1 Corinthians 4:6-7 didn't say anything in relation to your claim above. Here it is:
For your sake, my friends, I have applied all this to Apollos and me, using the two of us as an example, so that you may learn what the saying means, *Observe the proper rules.* None of you should be proud of one person and despise another. 7. Who made you superior to others? Didn't God give you everything you have? Well, then, how can you boast, as if what you have were not a gift?


Let us take weddings for example of an event which is not shed in negative light in the Bible; the scriptures make it clear that weddings in biblical times were never conducted inside the temple but in the homes of the groom. The one attended by Jesus in Cana of Galilee is a prominent example. Jesus' parable of the man who celebrated his son's wedding in his own house was yet another evidence.
The conduct of wedding inside worship places originated from among pagans. But today JWs too conduct their weddings inside their worship houses? And you tell me you avoid practices with paganistic roots?
And do you think there is really any modern secular practice today not rooted directly or indirectly in paganism?
The exchange of wedding rings is paganistic in origin just like the wearing of white flowing gown by the bride. But you JWs don't forbid these in your weddings despite being 'aversed' to things rooted in pagan traditions.




Before the Isreaelites did that in Exodus 32:5, God had already told them in Exodus 20:3 not to do such so they weren't ignorant as you would have us believe. Moreover they described the calf as god not God. The mere fact that they even made an image onto themselves at all against one of the Ten Commandments already given them is enough evidence that they contravened a very clear instruction which they weren't ignorant of.
Like I have already explained with the name 'Zion' which origin is paganistic but is now used by God and Jesus to connote their faithful servants, the intention behind the use of anything is more important than its origin.
Do you know that intramural system of education is paganistic in origin as it was the system by which pagan tribes taught their newly recruited soldiers the art of war and the effective use of weapons in preparation for wars? It was later spread to cover non-military professions like Engineering, Medicine, Accountancy, etc. JWs receive education through intramural system (i.e. schools) today and bag from them degrees with which they fend for themselves despite that system has its origin rooted in paganism.


There is also political appointment which is not civil service appointment but a reward for partisan political participation. It is like being appointed as minister of finance.
Those brethren who were part of the Emperor's palace in Philipians 4:22 could not have been civil servants going by what it means to be part of or to belong to a government.


Jesus'rejection of the offer doesn't translate to an instruction against political participation. His acceptance would have jeopardized his mission to die for sins. Are other Christians on earth to die for sins too? Just like how Jesus decision to have got married would have derailed his mission, but that doesn't automatically translate to marriage being wrong for Christians.



Jesus would himself later clarify this issue of His (in the sense of Him alone) kingdom being not of this world when in response to his disciples question about the restoration of the earthly Israelite Kingdom to them, he assured them of the time when the Father would answer their prayers.


That is an assumption not a truth.
And you think any human affair is worth participating in if we are to use your assumption of their corruptive influences? Even the civil service is more corrupt than partisan politics. In fact the civil service, by its very nature and the laws guiding it, is an institution that statutorily works for politicians and defends their interests. So on what premise would you separate the two?

Even the civil service among whom there are JWs and their congratulation leaders is bashed as the engine room of corruption in Nigeria and is generally perceived worldwide as an establishment in which you can't work and still serve God conscientiously.

Without the Encyclopedia, most of us would not know the history of some things

I am deliberately not going to give you the NWT rendering.1 Cor 4 vs 6,7 in Douay Rheims version : But these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollo, for your sakes; that in us you may learn, *that one be not puffed up against the other for another, above that which is written.* [7] For who distinguisheth thee? Or what hast thou that thou hast not received? And if thou hast received, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Now concerning paganism....If we say we want to abstain from anything pagan, we would be deceiving ourselves. Our calendar months, days of the week were all created by pagans. Likewise your Zion example. But we would stay away from them only if it has something DIRECTLY to do with PAGAN WORSHIP. Wedding rings do not involve worship directly. Because they were used by pagans first does not mean I cannot use them anymore. But consider things like Easter eggs and bunnies. They are the sign of fertility of the goddess Eostre. So why do Christians use it during Easter? After all, you want me to believe that they are completely different. Or relationship does Santa Claus have to do with celebrating the birth of Christ? Or what does wearing red have to do with Valentine?

Concerning civil service, many of these same Witnesses are changing the norms. One of them I know personally is the head of the WDC Ijaiye, but her juniors have bigger houses and cars. She doesn't have to bend for others. And the position is not political.
Did you ever ask yourself whether Matthew that was a close disciple of Jesus, continued his tax collector duties? I guess it should all be left to conscience. But personally, I cannot involve myself in politics. Whether JW or not. I know many non-Jws who share the same sentiment

TATIME:
Hmmmmmmmmmm
Your FAKE miracles aren't making anything good out of it's adherents my friend,that's why all of your are claiming none~denominational

Even the Pharisees, out of envy and inability to perform miracles, termed Jesus' miracles to be fake..John 9:16, 18, 31. So we are not surprised that the modern day Pharisees are behaving true to type in the footsteps of their spiritual ancestors.
One would have expected you to come and perform the genuine miracles so as to prove that ours are fake. But alas! It is talk talk talk without any atom of the power of the Holy Spirit to show. 1 Corinthians 4:20. Spiritually powerless people hence afraid of the authorities.

TATIME:
Most of you are hiding behind the lies "we are performing miracles" yet there is nothing worth emulating coming from your followers. Matthew 7:21-23

And you have usurped Jesus position as Judge, right? You hypocrite! You see a spec in another person's eye through the log covering yours. What is worth emulation among your own followers who get drunken, fornicate, prostitute, get hooked up in illicit sexual relationships with unbelievers in the course of your unscriptural house to house preaching, tell lies in workplaces to get permission to attend their religious seminars; and your organization which protects culprits of child abuse, pleged allegiance to Adolf Hitler in his pogroms targeted at Jews, etc? Hypocrites will never stop being hypocrites.

TATIME:
Jehovah's Witnesses are preaching and teaching what they know,and the number of dedicated adherents is approaching 9,000,000 globally while the whole earth can feel their presence even when no one can hear their voice in the streets! Matthew 12:19

Thank God you now confess you are teaching what you know (by yourselves) and not what the Holy Spirit teaches. Latest reports show that you adherents base reduces daily, more and more loses of lawsuit loses are on your neck over child abuse cases hence you are selling off your assets to be able to pay the damages. If not, why are you relocating your headquarters from New York to a cheaper Warwick? Mathew 12:19 refers to Jesus's humility. However Jesus actually preached in the streets and was heard loudly by all. We have addressed this verse before but you chose to recycle it because you couldn't find a better one to defend your disobedience to Christ's instruction against going from house to house.

TATIME:
Sorry Sir if it's not Jehovah's Witnesses{true Christians} it can never be that effective like the first century Christians!

Sorry, the Bible is the standard and not first century Christians who were themselves guilty of many sins but saved by God's grace. Wasn't it first century Christians that were accused of dividing themselves among Appolos, Paul, etc? Weren't they the ones sleeping with their In-laws in 1 Cor. 5:1. So if such people who were sinners just like you are your standards rather of the words of Jesus and the Apostles themselves, then you are the most miserable people on earth.

TATIME:
When Jesus called those Pharisees "FOOLS". Matthew 23:17 They immediately became insultive without the slightest hesitation because that's what they are good at! John 8:44-48

And where was it reported that there was a single Pharisee around Jesus there to warrant the thought that he became insultive to Jesus? This is how you insert and smuggle human laws into the Bible. If you read through the entire chapter you can't but discovere that Jesus was speaking to the likes of your dubious and self righteous organization.

TATIME:
For your information all the achievements of Jehovah's Witnesses is BOLDLY written everywhere! So keep arguing worthlessly in support of NO visible,reputable group while JWs are making millions to become subjected to our GB{the men Jesus is using today to gather His eathly subjects}!

Achievements of failed prophesies which are well known to everyone except some of your very members, right? You are correct.

Deadlytruth:
Even the Pharisees, out of envy and inability to perform miracles, termed Jesus' miracles to be fake..John 9:16, 18, 31. So we are not surprised that the modern day Pharisees are behaving true to type in the footsteps of their spiritual ancestors.
One would have expected you to come and perform the genuine miracles so as to prove that ours are fake. But alas! It is talk talk talk without any atom of the power of the Holy Spirit to show. 1 Corinthians 4:20. Spiritually powerless people hence afraid of the authorities.
And you have usurped Jesus position as Judge, right? You hypocrite! You see a spec in another person's eye through the log covering yours. What is worth emulation among your own followers who get drunken, fornicate, prostitute, get hooked up in illicit sexual relationships with unbelievers in the course of your unscriptural house to house preaching, tell lies in workplaces to get permission to attend their religious seminars; and your organization which protects culprits of child abuse, pleged allegiance to Adolf Hitler in his pogroms targeted at Jews, etc? Hypocrites will never stop being hypocrites.
Thank God you now confess you are teaching what you know (by yourselves) and not what the Holy Spirit teaches. Latest reports show that you adherents base reduces daily, more and more loses of lawsuit loses are on your neck over child abuse cases hence you are selling off your assets to be able to pay the damages. If not, why are you relocating your headquarters from New York to a cheaper Warwick? Mathew 12:19 refers to Jesus's humility. However Jesus actually preached in the streets and was heard loudly by all. We have addressed this verse before but you chose to recycle it because you couldn't find a better one to defend your disobedience to Christ's instruction against going from house to house.
Sorry, the Bible is the standard and not first century Christians who were themselves guilty of many sins but saved by God's grace. Wasn't it first century Christians that were accused of dividing themselves among Appolos, Paul, etc? Weren't they the ones sleeping with their In-laws in 1 Cor. 5:1. So if such people who were sinners just like you are your standards rather of the words of Jesus and the Apostles themselves, then you are the most miserable people on earth.
And where was it reported that there was a single Pharisee around Jesus there to warrant the thought that he became insultive to Jesus? This is how you insert and smuggle human laws into the Bible. If you read through the entire chapter you can't but discovere that Jesus was speaking to the likes of your dubious and self righteous organization.
Achievements of failed prophesies which are well known to everyone except some of your very members, right? You are correct.

So you agreed that despite all the effort of the Apostles {just as the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses are working tirelessly to keep the organization clean today}with God's holy spirit.Act 15:28,29
Some first century Christians still commits a lot of blunders{just as some PROFESSED Jehovah's Witnesses today are still falling below the standards} Hmmmmmmmm this is really interesting!
My question to you now is
*Would you have been a member of that Christian congregation or stands out as none denominational believer due to the records of blunders committed by fellow Christians? Hebrews 10:24,25
*Will you be bold and confident enough to tell unbelievers that failure to come and learn the TRUTH from the Apostles{just as those erring Christians have learnt yet still falling to sinful acts} could lead to destruction? John 3:16-18

lordtim001:
Sorry, the publisher's name is M.G Easton not Thomas Nelson

Easter means dawn.

TATIME:
So you agreed that despite all the effort of the Apostles {just as the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses are working tirelessly to keep the organization clean today}with God's holy spirit.Act 15:28,29
Some first century Christians still commits a lot of blunders{just as some PROFESSED Jehovah's Witnesses today are still falling below the standards} Hmmmmmmmm this is really interesting!
My question to you now is
*Would you have been a member of that Christian congregation or stands out as none denominational believer due to the records of blunders committed by fellow Christians? Hebrews 10:24,25
*Will you be bold and confident enough to tell unbelievers that failure to come and learn the TRUTH from the Apostles{just as those erring Christians have learnt yet still falling to sinful acts} could lead to destruction? John 3:16-18

Stories. Isn't it the same way the leadership of every other Christian group is working tirelessly to keep the fold clean yet some of their members too fail to adhere? And come to think of it, which single member of any group can be adjudged as really clean? You think there is any? That is why it is a thing of grace and never a thing of any standards or personal efforts.
The other groups don't however use first century Christians as standards because that would amount to actual compromise of the standards Jesus Himself set even for the Apostles. But your organization sets as her own standards the conduct of the more sinful second generation first century Christians whose conducts are recorded not even in the Bible but in mere encyclopediae authored by equally sinful men who didn't even believe in Jesus hence their testimonies can't be trusted. So which is better? Be honest!

lordtim001:
Without the Encyclopedia, most of us would not know the history of some things

I am deliberately not going to give you the NWT rendering.1 Cor 4 vs 6,7 in Douay Rheims version : But these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollo, for your sakes; that in us you may learn, *that one be not puffed up against the other for another, above that which is written.* [7] For who distinguisheth thee? Or what hast thou that thou hast not received? And if thou hast received, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Now concerning paganism....If we say we want to abstain from anything pagan, we would be deceiving ourselves. Our calendar months, days of the week were all created by pagans. Likewise your Zion example. But we would stay away from them only if it has something DIRECTLY to do with PAGAN WORSHIP. Wedding rings do not involve worship directly. Because they were used by pagans first does not mean I cannot use them anymore. But consider things like Easter eggs and bunnies. They are the sign of fertility of the goddess Eostre. So why do Christians use it during Easter? After all, you want me to believe that they are completely different. Or relationship does Santa Claus have to do with celebrating the birth of Christ? Or what does wearing red have to do with Valentine?

Concerning civil service, many of these same Witnesses are changing the norms. One of them I know personally is the head of the WDC Ijaiye, but her juniors have bigger houses and cars. She doesn't have to bend for others. And the position is not political.
Did you ever ask yourself whether Matthew that was a close disciple of Jesus, continued his tax collector duties? I guess it should all be left to conscience. But personally, I cannot involve myself in politics. Whether JW or not. I know many non-Jws who share the same sentiment

“A main concern is, not what the practice meant hundreds of years ago, but how it is viewed today in your area. Understandably, opinions may vary from one place to another. Hence, it is wise to avoid turning such matters into big issues.” Awake! 2003 Sep 22 pp.23-24

So your jehovah told you that since wedding ring is of pagan origin but not directly involved in pagan worship you should wear abi?

Easter and easter eggs and bunnies are not the same and have never been the same. Don't come and give us toxic stuff. In a bid to discredit easter you mention easter eggs and bunnies haba. Jw and their cunning ways.

Goddess eostre and easter are not the same thing. Christians don't use easter eggs or bunnies. If you don't know don't comment and keep quiet about it.

Christians celebrate Christmas (birth of their savior jesus christ) and don't celebrate Santa Claus get your facts right.

So you want to force Valentine into our worship abi? Lol.



Almost everything is pagan. Pagans have done virtually everything we do, including most of what you Jehovah’s Witnesses do day-to-day such as bathing, eating, drinking, and working.
Your life is filled with pagan practice, such as the wearing of neckties and perfume, celebrations with piñatas, flying of kites, and even use of the calendar, which is named after Roman Gods.

Weddings are laden in paganism, including the ceremony, cake, dress, burning of candles and the wedding ring.


The giving of wedding presents is accompanied by murder in the Bible. David was required to supply the foreskins of 200 slain Philistines as a dowry to King Saul (1 Sam 18:27). Pharaoh killed the inhabitants of Gezer and gave the city as a wedding gift to his daughter, Solomon's wife. (1 Kings 9:16 NIV).

Do you people not accept wedding gifts? Abeg park well. You want to discredit Christianity. Your jehovah loves cherry picking sha or rather your gb cos your invisible jehovah doesn't have mouth or hands to talk or to write.

lordtim001:
I must hand it to you. You are very dedicated in researching things. But I put it to you that you cannot bring out one single doctrine that is not supported by scripture. The only thing you can say that I will agree to is that misunderstanding of scriptures occur at times. The point is that there IS a scripture in the first place that enforces that thought

And we know that Mormons discredit the Bible but rely on Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon as their guide.

And sorry, my laptop is not with me, otherwise I would have pulled out that 1970 Awake from WT Library to read more about it. I'm really interested....Who was speaking there? And can I get the full article if possible

You people use watchtower publication, nwt (bible made for your religion by your leaders) as your guide Nko? Has anyone killed or faulted you?
You want to condemn Mormon yet you are guilty of the same thing.

Did your governing body not tell you that you can't study the Bible alone? That you must study with their interpretation (magazines)?

Deadlytruth:
Stories. Isn't it the same way the leadership of every other Christian group is working tirelessly to keep the fold clean yet some of their members too fail to adhere? And come to think of it, which single member of any group can be adjudged as really clean? You think there is any? That is why it is a thing of grace and never a thing of any standards or personal efforts.
The other groups don't however use first century Christians as standards because that would amount to actual compromise of the standards Jesus Himself set even for the Apostles. But your organization sets as her own standards the conduct of the more sinful second generation first century Christians whose conducts are recorded not even in the Bible but in mere encyclopediae authored by equally sinful men who didn't even believe in Jesus hence their testimonies can't be trusted. So which is better? Be honest!

HONESTY! Hmmmmmmm well your opening words says "Stories" meaning there is nothing that can change your mind from the hatred you have for this group! But i'll tell you what i honestly believe.
The first four books of the Christians Greek Scriptures{New Testament} is about the life and ministry of Jesus,how He gathered disciples and how they went into hiding in fear of the authorities.
The ACT OF APOSTLE is the book that teaches us how the first century Christians overcome the fears of critics,what happened after congregations were established and many mistakes of the first century followers of Jesus.
Jehovah's Witnesses are following the pattern set by those first century followers that is why we've remained as one globally just as the first century Christians in all lands we're submissive to the Apostles's teachings{Act 2:4}JWs globally are submissive to the GB's teachings today!
There was judicial committee in the first century to expel unrepentant sinner from the congregations{1 Corinthians 6:13} and JWs are doing exactly the same today!
There were errors in organizational arrangements{Act 5:1-11} note that Ananias and Sapphira died because of the arrangement that the Apostles organised and after they found out that it failed they stopped it. There were also misconceptions during the first century after Jesus ascended to heaven{John 21:23}
Globally the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses kept spreading on accelerated pace,my friend if you're truly honest yourself you can just accept that this is the group about whom Jesus said "they will become one".John 17:21-23
But if you still feels like arguing,it's OK my friend just know that Jesus has a group though they're not perfect individually speaking but the whole world can SEE{Matthew 5:14} that they are one despite coming from different backgrounds! Isaiah 2:1-4

lordtim001:
Without the Encyclopedia, most of us would not know the history of some things

I am deliberately not going to give you the NWT rendering.1 Cor 4 vs 6,7 in Douay Rheims version : But these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollo, for your sakes; that in us you may learn, *that one be not puffed up against the other for another, above that which is written.* [7] For who distinguisheth thee? Or what hast thou that thou hast not received? And if thou hast received, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Now concerning paganism....If we say we want to abstain from anything pagan, we would be deceiving ourselves. Our calendar months, days of the week were all created by pagans. Likewise your Zion example. But we would stay away from them only if it has something DIRECTLY to do with PAGAN WORSHIP. Wedding rings do not involve worship directly. Because they were used by pagans first does not mean I cannot use them anymore. But consider things like Easter eggs and bunnies. They are the sign of fertility of the goddess Eostre. So why do Christians use it during Easter? After all, you want me to believe that they are completely different. Or relationship does Santa Claus have to do with celebrating the birth of Christ? Or what does wearing red have to do with Valentine?

Concerning civil service, many of these same Witnesses are changing the norms. One of them I know personally is the head of the WDC Ijaiye, but her juniors have bigger houses and cars. She doesn't have to bend for others. And the position is not political.
Did you ever ask yourself whether Matthew that was a close disciple of Jesus, continued his tax collector duties? I guess it should all be left to conscience. But personally, I cannot involve myself in politics. Whether JW or not. I know many non-Jws who share the same sentiment

Neither does anyone worship Easter eggs and bunnies in their use for celebrating Easter. By the way God created all those things originally but pagans only abused them and directed their use for the worship of idols. Why should we now surrender them to those idols in the name of "They are paganistic in origin"? Their genuine origin is from God who created them and not the pagans who only abused their purposes. So nothing is really wrong in redirecting their use back to the one who really created them.
The name 'Zion' meant a pagan fortress of protection...more or less a pagan god of protection. But it the genuine God of protection adopted it eventually. Likewise, in Acts 17:23-25, Paul found in Athens a temple dedicated to an unknown god i.e. one of their idols which they believed they were yet to identify. However, Paul in his speech redirected them to the real God through the use and adoption of that unknown idol (i.e.as God) to whom that pagan temple was dedicated. In the next verses he explainef to them that the whole world including that temple and the material of which that unknown god might be made were all created by the true God. Do we now say Paul was guilty of using an entity rooted in paganism and idolatry to represent the Almighty God? Never! His intention was to bring them all to the knowledge of the true God, hence it is intention of use of any object that matter and not the origin of it.
I myself am just hearing of bunnies and
Easter eggs in all my over 40 years on earth. I have always celebrated Easter by simply going for church service and visiting orphanages and prisons with gifts and sermons because my intention about it is to propagate Jesus as the Messiah and not to worship any idol connected with its origin.
Nobody worships Santa Claus either. It is now just a human figure who gives gifts to children in reminiscence of the wise men who offered gold, myrrh and franckisense to Jesus on his birth which Christmas itself commemorates.
If God had felt we needed extrabiblical sources, one of which is encyclopediae, to fully understand his words, then He wouldn't have told us not to go beyond what is written in the Bible. Moreover, human records of history are mostly contradictory hence can't really be relied upon to establish the veracity of the words of an infallible and omnipotent God. We are meant to read the Bible and accept its contents by faith which is the most central issue in Christianity.
Well, you can't really separate the civil service from politics as the laws establishing it makes it an institution statutorily loyal to the interest of elected politicians. As a permanent secretary in a ministry you must sign checks by which the politician in power would procure weapons for tuggery during elections, offer bribes to the courts to pervert justice, etc.
It is even easier to make a difference in an elected office than in the civil service. As an elected politician to an office you can refuse to compromise without any consequences since only those who elected you can remove you. But in the civil service you are under an authority which can victimize you for staying true to principles and persecute you into compromise.

TATIME:
HONESTY! Hmmmmmmm well your opening words says "Stories" meaning there is nothing that can change your mind from the hatred you have for this group! But i'll tell you what i honestly believe.
The first four books of the Christians Greek Scriptures{New Testament} is about the life and ministry of Jesus,how He gathered disciples and how they went into hiding in fear of the authorities.
The ACT OF APOSTLE is the book that teaches us how the first century Christians overcome the fears of critics,what happened after congregations were established and many mistakes of the first century followers of Jesus.
Jehovah's Witnesses are following the pattern set by those first century followers that is why we've remained as one globally just as the first century Christians in all lands we're submissive to the Apostles's teachings{Act 2:4}JWs globally are submissive to the GB's teachings today!
There was judicial committee in the first century to expel unrepentant sinner from the congregations{1 Corinthians 6:13} and JWs are doing exactly the same today!
There were errors in organizational arrangements{Act 5:1-11} note that Ananias and Sapphira died because of the arrangement that the Apostles organised and after they found out that it failed they stopped it. There were also misconceptions during the first century after Jesus ascended to heaven{John 21:23}
Globally the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses kept spreading on accelerated pace,my friend if you're truly honest yourself you can just accept that this is the group about whom Jesus said "they will become one".John 17:21-23
But if you still feels like arguing,it's OK my friend just know that Jesus has a group though they're not perfect individually speaking but the whole world can SEE{Matthew 5:14} that they are one despite coming from different backgrounds! Isaiah 2:1-4

I will only address the bolded because all the other things up there are repeatitions of issues which I have already thrashed out with you both on this thread and others. I don't like being taken back to an old topic without bringing up a new thing about it.
Now to the bolded; I guess there is anything that can change your own mind from the hatred you have for other Christians going by how much you still stick to your organization's beliefs despite how much they have been proven wrong from the scriptures.
I don't hate any group at all. What I am against is misinterpretation of the Bible and the assumption that works of the hands are what brings God's approval.
I termed your submissions as stories because they create the wrong and unscriptural impression that one is saved by one's personal efforts and self righteousness as against faith and the grace of God.

Hairyrapunzel:
“A main concern is, not what the practice meant hundreds of years ago, but how it is viewed today in your area. Understandably, opinions may vary from one place to another. Hence, it is wise to avoid turning such matters into big issues.” Awake! 2003 Sep 22 pp.23-24

So your jehovah told you that since wedding ring is of pagan origin but not directly involved in pagan worship you should wear abi?

Easter and easter eggs and bunnies are not the same and have never been the same. Don't come and give us toxic stuff. In a bid to discredit easter you mention easter eggs and bunnies haba. Jw and their cunning ways.

Goddess eostre and easter are not the same thing. Christians don't use easter eggs or bunnies. If you don't know don't comment and keep quiet about it.

Christians celebrate Christmas (birth of their savior jesus christ) and don't celebrate Santa Claus get your facts right.

So you want to force Valentine into our worship abi? Lol.



Almost everything is pagan. Pagans have done virtually everything we do, including most of what you Jehovah’s Witnesses do day-to-day such as bathing, eating, drinking, and working.
Your life is filled with pagan practice, such as the wearing of neckties and perfume, celebrations with piñatas, flying of kites, and even use of the calendar, which is named after Roman Gods.

Weddings are laden in paganism, including the ceremony, cake, dress, burning of candles and the wedding ring.


The giving of wedding presents is accompanied by murder in the Bible. David was required to supply the foreskins of 200 slain Philistines as a dowry to King Saul (1 Sam 18:27). Pharaoh killed the inhabitants of Gezer and gave the city as a wedding gift to his daughter, Solomon's wife. (1 Kings 9:16 NIV).

Do you people not accept wedding gifts? Abeg park well. You want to discredit Christianity. Your jehovah loves cherry picking sha or rather your gb cos your invisible jehovah doesn't have mouth or hands to talk or to write.

At least it is stated that SERVANTS of God celebrated weddings and gave wedding gifts, right? Did they celebrate Christmas, birthdays and Easter? Before you mention Job's children, even the Bible does not mention that it is their birthday that they celebrated. It only mentioned their day. It could be that they had a schedule for flexing.Still after everything, Job still offered sacrifices on their behalf. That shows us that even a normal celebration needs to be done in moderation. And MAYBE Jesus forgot to celebrate his birthday or maybe it would disturb his ministry
You still have not answered the question. What does Santa have to do with Christmas? I didn't say you are celebrating Santa. But the same things that pagans did, you also do them. You say eggs represent Jesus ressurection. Fine!!! Who told them to paint those same eggs? You are doing exactly the same thing the pagans do in their WORSHIP. Well, everyone has their freedom

Hairyrapunzel:
You people use watchtower publication, nwt (bible made for your religion by your leaders) as your guide Nko? Has anyone killed or faulted you?
You want to condemn Mormon yet you are guilty of the same thing.

Did your governing body not tell you that you can't study the Bible alone? That you must study with their interpretation (magazines)?

Lol. If any Mormon comes to your door, does he/she open the Bible? If JWs come to your door, what do they use? And in case you do not know, we don't give out magazines like before. We preach with ONLY the Bible. If someone then wants a Bible Study after two/three return visits, we could choose a book to study. Nevertheless, some people also ask for Bible discussions without any publication. That's the difference. Just like Muslims that tell you that they believe in Jesus, but they discredit the Bible and say that it is incomplete or a book of confusion

Deadlytruth:
Neither does anyone worship Easter eggs and bunnies in their use for celebrating Easter. By the way God created all those things originally but pagans only abused them and directed their use for the worship of idols. Why should we now surrender them to those idols in the name of "They are paganistic in origin"? Their genuine origin is from God who created them and not the pagans who only abused their purposes. So nothing is really wrong in redirecting their use back to the one who really created them.
The name 'Zion' meant a pagan fortress of protection...more or less a pagan god of protection. But it the genuine God of protection adopted it eventually. Likewise, in Acts 17:23-25, Paul found in Athens a temple dedicated to an unknown god i.e. one of their idols which they believed they were yet to identify. However, Paul in his speech redirected them to the real God through the use and adoption of that unknown idol (i.e.as God) to whom that pagan temple was dedicated. In the next verses he explainef to them that the whole world including that temple and the material of which that unknown god might be made were all created by the true God. Do we now say Paul was guilty of using an entity rooted in paganism and idolatry to represent the Almighty God? Never! His intention was to bring them all to the knowledge of the true God, hence it is intention of use of any object that matter and not the origin of it.
I myself am just hearing of bunnies and
Easter eggs in all my over 40 years on earth. I have always celebrated Easter by simply going for church service and visiting orphanages and prisons with gifts and sermons because my intention about it is to propagate Jesus as the Messiah and not to worship any idol connected with its origin.
Nobody worships Santa Claus either. It is now just a human figure who gives gifts to children in reminiscence of the wise men who offered gold, myrrh and franckisense to Jesus on his birth which Christmas itself commemorates.
If God had felt we needed extrabiblical sources, one of which is encyclopediae, to fully understand his words, then He wouldn't have told us not to go beyond what is written in the Bible. Moreover, human records of history are mostly contradictory hence can't really be relied upon to establish the veracity of the words of an infallible and omnipotent God. We are meant to read the Bible and accept its contents by faith which is the most central issue in Christianity.
Well, you can't really separate the civil service from politics as the laws establishing it makes it an institution statutorily loyal to the interest of elected politicians. As a permanent secretary in a ministry you must sign checks by which the politician in power would procure weapons for tuggery during elections, offer bribes to the courts to pervert justice, etc.
It is even easier to make a difference in an elected office than in the civil service. As an elected politician to an office you can refuse to compromise without any consequences since only those who elected you can remove you. But in the civil service you are under an authority which can victimize you for staying true to principles and persecute you into compromise.

Over 40 years Wow!
Daddy, I have one question. Can you choose any day to celebrate that Easter? Can you choose to celebrate Christmas on another day asides December 25th? After all, the Bible repeatedly says that we should keep from becoming causes for stumbling

Encyclopedias generally contain a wealth of information. Why should I not consult them? How did hairyrapunzel know that the Tetragrammaton is not in the New Testament? And did Paul tell them to worship God through that same altar? He only used it express a point that they should broaden their minds to the possibility that there is another God that they do not know, which is the one true God.

Last last, everywhere we have good Christians. Because they do not make the news does not mean there are no good people being persecuted to the point of even having to lose their jobs. We repeatedly hear that politics is a dirty game. How many of them are pagans? It's the same people that profess to be true Christians or good Muslims that are still making things worse... They also say Power corrupts and Absolute power corrupts absolutely

TATIME:
HONESTY! Hmmmmmmm well your opening words says "Stories" meaning there is nothing that can change your mind from the hatred you have for this group! But i'll tell you what i honestly believe.
The first four books of the Christians Greek Scriptures{New Testament} is about the life and ministry of Jesus,how He gathered disciples and how they went into hiding in fear of the authorities.
The ACT OF APOSTLE is the book that teaches us how the first century Christians overcome the fears of critics,what happened after congregations were established and many mistakes of the first century followers of Jesus.
Jehovah's Witnesses are following the pattern set by those first century followers that is why we've remained as one globally just as the first century Christians in all lands we're submissive to the Apostles's teachings{Act 2:4}JWs globally are submissive to the GB's teachings today!
There was judicial committee in the first century to expel unrepentant sinner from the congregations{1 Corinthians 6:13} and JWs are doing exactly the same today!
There were errors in organizational arrangements{Act 5:1-11} note that Ananias and Sapphira died because of the arrangement that the Apostles organised and after they found out that it failed they stopped it. There were also misconceptions during the first century after Jesus ascended to heaven{John 21:23}
, Globally the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses kept spreading on accelerated pace,my friend if you're truly honest yourself you can just accept that this is the group about whom Jesus said "they will become one".John 17:21-23
But if you still feels like arguing,it's OK my friend just know that Jesus has a group though they're not perfect individually speaking but the whole world can SEE{Matthew 5:14} that they are one despite coming from different backgrounds! Isaiah 2:1-4

I have decided to respond to these issues once more not because I feel like indulging you in your dishonesty of repeating them despite having been thrashed thoroughly in another thread from which you ran away for lack of superior counter argument based on the scriptures, but for the sake of those who might stumble on this very thread without having seen those other ones.
I have already cited many biblical evidences that the Apostles never really had structural organization challenges and that they neither operated as one single group to which all believers must compulsorily belong to. Just as there were believers in Jerusalem operating as a body to which membership was not compulsory, there was another group of believers in Damascus which did not work together with that in Jerusalem...Acts 9:10,13,14,19.
Contrary to your claim, Acts 5:1 - 11 doesn't speak of any structural organization let alone a change of it. What happened there was communal living which grew spontaneously out of necessity occasioned by the atmosphere of persecution of believers by the authorities. This is much like the experience I had as a youth corper in Kumo Village in Gombe State during one occasion of Sharia riots in 2001 which saw all of us Southern Christians in that village relocate temporarily to one neighbourhood for synergy of pooling our resources to feed and self defense should the rioters come our way. Once the State Government completely quelled the riots after a week, we all spontaneously parted ways again to our various abodes. That wasn't an organizational structure but an ad hoc arrangement under an unfavorable circumstance to our faith cum lives.
The only time a quasi-structure was set up was in Acts 6:1-2, and it was set up to handle only finances and never as a hierarchical structure of a church that could pass for a governing body. Those chosen also did not have their influence spread to cover the believers in Damascus or elsewhere. Had there been no complaints about the distribution of finances between the Greek speaking Jews and the native ones, that structure wouldn't have been set up. So the idea that hierarchical structure and governing bodies began with the Apostles is pure bunkum.
The issue in John 21:23 happened while Jesus was still with his disciples and even because of what he said which he even clarified there and then. So how could it have caused a misconception after he had ascended to heaven? You probably learnt that from an encyclopedia, not so? Isn't this why we have been telling you that it is wrong and demonic to rely on human records for validation of scrptural truths?
The very standards by which you adjude yourselves as one are rather meaningless. As long as you broke away from another already existing group and other splinter groups have broken away from you and keep breaking away from you, then you are not one hence have failed your own idea of oneness. Jesus prayed that his disciples would never split into groups and none of them ever split from the group. But you from whom countless groups have split are claiming you were the one Jesus was referring to in that passage. Story!
Here are just few of the over 1000 groups that have splintered from you:
1. Bible Studies Fellowship, headquarters in San Diego, Ca.
Bible Way Publications, Ft. Lauderdale, Fl.
2. Christian Millennial Fellowship, Hartford, Conn. Publishes the New Creation magazine.
3. Christian Renewal Ministry, Saratoga, Ca.
4. Church of God of Abraham, Wenatchee, Wa. Publishes Notes for Bible Students newsletter
5. Dawn Bible Students, East Rutherford, N.J. One of the original splinter groups formed after Joseph Rutherford became president of
the Watchtower Society
6. Fort Worth Bible Students, Ft. Worth, Tx. Republishes older W.T. Society literature
7 Laodicean Home Missionary, John Krewson, Ft. Myers, Fl.
8. Laymen's Home Missionary Movement, Raymond Jolly, Chester Springs, Pa. Publishes the Bible Standard and Herald of Christ's 
Kingdom newsletter. {In turn, a splinter group came out of this group: Epiphany Bible Students Association, Mount Dora, Fl.
Publishes a newsletter under the group's name}
Pastoral Bible Institute, Milwaukee, Wisconsin

9. There is a group under Hayiland Davis, Albany, N.Y. I'm not sure of the name.

10. In Africa there is a group that originated in the 1920s called Kitawala Movement.
11. God's Kingdom Society formed by an Urhobo man who broke away from you.

and many more.
So cut that crap of unity.

Deadlytruth:
I will only address the bolded because all the other things up there are repeatitions of issues which I have already thrashed out with you both on this thread and others. I don't like being taken back to an old topic without bringing up a new thing about it.
Now to the bolded; I guess there is anything that can change your own mind from the hatred you have for other Christians going by how much you still stick to your organization's beliefs despite how much they have been proven wrong from the scriptures.
I don't hate any group at all. What I am against is misinterpretation of the Bible and the assumption that works of the hands are what brings God's approval.
I termed your submissions as stories because they create the wrong and unscriptural impression that one is saved by one's personal efforts and self righteousness as against faith and the grace of God.

Good of you but i'm a Christian{Christlike or little Christ} and as a follower of Christ we're never tired of REPETITION whenever the need arises, because Jesus{our Master,Lord and King} never got tired of repeating topics to impress in the minds of listeners what He has taught them! It is Satan and his demons that won't like repeating topics because they don't care for you!
Of course there is HATRED between light and darkness so it's only when someone is a lost sheep{obedient individual but brought up in falsehood} that such a person will like to find out why he/she worships in the midst of confused religionists whereas there is a group where everything is ORDERLY.
So Jesus made it clear that light and darkness can never become one,but you can borrow a leaf{if truthfully you want light} from the illustration. Because a world that is filled with darkness light attracts all faces even though many won't like to come near the light for a reason best known to them. John 3:19-21
The organization of Jehovah's Witnesses stands out and all eyes can see this wonderful group,that's why persons like me from a Muslim background who formerly believes in
*causing and killing my enemies
*eternal punishment of SOULS
*going to live in heaven (though i can't explain why)
*dead are suffering in hell
*can't speak convincingly about my beliefs
*often enraged when insulted
And many more just like you're presently,the only difference is you claim Jesus is God and that He is a part of some TRINITY. Yet i've become one of happy Jehovah's Witnesses globally today all because i HATE confusion! So if you're a friend of confusion or darkness as Jesus puts it (since those in darkness can't see each others works to be reproved) you and i will ever remain ENEMIES!

Deadlytruth:
I have decided to respond to these issues once more not because I feel like indulging you in your dishonesty of repeating them despite having been thrashed thoroughly in another thread from which you ran away for lack of superior counter argument based on the scriptures, but for the sake of those who might stumble on this very thread without having seen those other ones.
I have already cited many biblical evidences that the Apostles never really had structural organization challenges and that they neither operated as one single group to which all believers must compulsorily belong to. Just as there were believers in Jerusalem operating as a body to which membership was not compulsory, there was another group of believers in Damascus which did not work together with that in Jerusalem...Acts 9:10,13,14,19.
Contrary to your claim, Acts 5:1 - 11 doesn't speak of any structural organization let alone a change of it. What happened there was communal living which grew spontaneously out of necessity occasioned by the atmosphere of persecution of believers by the authorities. This is much like the experience I had as a youth corper in Kumo Village in Gombe State during one occasion of Sharia riots in 2001 which saw all of us Southern Christians in that village relocate temporarily to one neighbourhood for synergy of pooling our resources to feed and self defense should the rioters come our way. Once the State Government completely quelled the riots after a week, we all spontaneously parted ways again to our various abodes. That wasn't an organizational structure but an ad hoc arrangement under an unfavorable circumstance to our faith cum lives.
The only time a quasi-structure was set up was in Acts 6:1-2, and it was set up to handle only finances and never as a hierarchical structure of a church that could pass for a governing body. Those chosen also did not have their influence spread to cover the believers in Damascus or elsewhere. Had there been no complaints about the distribution of finances between the Greek speaking Jews and the native ones, that structure wouldn't have been set up. So the idea that hierarchical structure and governing bodies began with the Apostles is pure bunkum.
The issue in John 21:23 happened while Jesus was still with his disciples and even because of what he said which he even clarified there and then. So how could it have caused a misconception after he had ascended to heaven? You probably learnt that from an encyclopedia, not so? Isn't this why we have been telling you that it is wrong and demonic to rely on human records for validation of scrptural truths?
The very standards by which you adjude yourselves as one are rather meaningless. As long as you broke away from another already existing group and other splinter groups have broken away from you and keep breaking away from you, then you are not one hence have failed your own idea of oneness. Jesus prayed that his disciples would never split into groups and none of them ever split from the group. But you from whom countless groups have split are claiming you were the one Jesus was referring to in that passage. Story!
Here are just few of the over 1000 groups that have splintered from you:
1. Bible Studies Fellowship, headquarters in San Diego, Ca.
Bible Way Publications, Ft. Lauderdale, Fl.
2. Christian Millennial Fellowship, Hartford, Conn. Publishes the New Creation magazine.
3. Christian Renewal Ministry, Saratoga, Ca.
4. Church of God of Abraham, Wenatchee, Wa. Publishes Notes for Bible Students newsletter
5. Dawn Bible Students, East Rutherford, N.J. One of the original splinter groups formed after Joseph Rutherford became president of
the Watchtower Society
6. Fort Worth Bible Students, Ft. Worth, Tx. Republishes older W.T. Society literature
7 Laodicean Home Missionary, John Krewson, Ft. Myers, Fl.
8. Laymen's Home Missionary Movement, Raymond Jolly, Chester Springs, Pa. Publishes the Bible Standard and Herald of Christ's 
Kingdom newsletter. {In turn, a splinter group came out of this group: Epiphany Bible Students Association, Mount Dora, Fl.
Publishes a newsletter under the group's name}
Pastoral Bible Institute, Milwaukee, Wisconsin

9. There is a group under Hayiland Davis, Albany, N.Y. I'm not sure of the name.

10. In Africa there is a group that originated in the 1920s called Kitawala Movement.
11. God's Kingdom Society formed by an Urhobo man who broke away from you.

and many more.
So cut that crap of unity.

Hmmmmmmmm so in a bid to back confusion{DARKNESS} you have put up all these stories.
Well Jesus and the Apostles said something that you need to meditate upon thoroughly! John 15:4-9 & 1John 2:19
So we can't perform any sacred service with any of those you mention above and they themselves will never think of been called JWs,therefore their God and our God differs!
But concerning why all Christians were in SUBJECTION to the Apostles during the first century,perhaps you need to check the Bible book of Revelations 21:12-14 for your information Sir whoever wants to enter into that holy city must bow to the teachings of Jesus' twelve Apostles because the keys is with them. Matthew 16:18,19
This means Jesus will never count you among His sheep if you fail to submit yourself under the feet of those TWELVE Apostles! Please note the significance of this twelve. Act 2:42,6:6,9:27,16:4,Ephesians 2:20,

TATIME:
Good of you but i'm a Christian{Christlike or little Christ} and as a follower of Christ we're never tired of REPETITION whenever the need arises, because Jesus{our Master,Lord and King} never got tired of repeating topics to impress in the minds of listeners what He has taught them! It is Satan and his demons that won't like repeating topics because they don't care for you!

Jesus never repeat answers to those who deliberately refused to accept the truth despite Him having shown them from the scriptures and demonstrated them with the power of God in hhim. For such stubborn hearts he would either just use parables or ignore them. You are one of such stubborn hearts who keep repeating question you have been given clear answers to with citations from the scriptures.

quote author=TATIME post=75859825]
Of course there is HATRED between light and darkness so it's only when someone is a lost sheep{obedient individual but brought up in falsehood} that such a person will like to find out why he/she worships in the midst of confused religionists whereas there is a group where everything is ORDERLY.[/quote]The fact that you and your brothers here are always first to resort to abusive language when defeated with superior argument is an evidence that you are the ones reeling in hatred due to having being brought up in falsehood evidenced by an unstable doctrine in which darkness today might become light tomorrow and light today could become darkness tomorrow.

quote author=TATIME post=75859825]
So Jesus made it clear that light and darkness can never become one,but you can borrow a leaf{if truthfully you want light} from the illustration. Because a world that is filled with darkness light attracts all faces even though many won't like to come near the light for a reason best known to them. John 3:19-21[/quote]How can I borrow a leaf from a light that can become darkness tomorrow in the hands of a people who are led by men? Why must I abandon the Holy Spirit led inspiration for a group that obviously lacks the power of the Holy Spirit hence preaches out of fear of the authorities? Does it make sense to even you yourself?

quote author=TATIME post=75859825]

The organization of Jehovah's Witnesses stands out and all eyes can see this wonderful group,that's why persons like me from a Muslim background who formerly believes in
*causing and killing my enemies
*eternal punishment of SOULS
*going to live in heaven (though i can't explain why)
*dead are suffering in hell
*can't speak convincingly about my beliefs
*often enraged when insulted
And many more just like you're presently,the only difference is you claim Jesus is God and that He is a part of some TRINITY. Yet i've become one of happy Jehovah's Witnesses globally today all because i HATE confusion! So if you're a friend of confusion or darkness as Jesus puts it (since those in darkness can't see each others works to be reproved) you and i will ever remain ENEMIES! [/quote]How can a group best known for failed predictions, ever changing doctrines which sometimes revert back to the ones they originally rejected, lack of the power of God hence can only talk and talk and make empty boasts, believe that salvation is by their personal efforts as against the Bible's clear instruction that it is by grace obtained through faith, etc, be claiming self righteousness? All these befitt you very well in harmony with 2 Timothy 2:4.