Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? - Religion (4) - Nairaland
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| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by JJOF(m): 5:54pm On Mar 12, 2019 |
ArchAngelos999, when Jesus said dat none would b lost, what he mean't was dat as long as u BELIEVE in him, dere is no possible way he will allow darkness 2 take control over u. As long as u BELIEVE in him, he will guard u 4rm, n guide u away 4rm darkness. But d moment u STOP BELIEVING, u'll b lost, not bcus Jesus doesn't wants u, but bcus wat gave him a chance in ur life (FAITH), is no longer there. That's y Jesus said that; any who puts his hands on the plough, n looks back, is not fit 4 god's kingdom. That was y apst John also said that; there is a sin that leads to death, n there are sins that don't lead to death. Death here means separation 4rm god, losing ur salvation. And d sin dat can do this, is d sin of UNBELIEVE, when u no longer bliv in d saving work of Jesus Christ. 1 Like |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by undisputed106(m): 11:14pm On Mar 12, 2019 |
cbrass: mathew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. How do you answer that? but these people obviously believed in Jesus, didn't they? What now happened? Don't believe false preachers. They lack knowledge and understanding. Their preaching use to contain a lot of inconsistencies. There's no such thing as "once saved, forever saved". God doesn't accept unclean thing in heaven. Any little mistake, it's hell. My bro it's left to you. 1 Like |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by musicwriter(m): 11:57pm On Mar 12, 2019 |
ArchAngelos999: Do you know why I feel glad debating with anybody on this topic? You'll never be able to provide any proof that Jesus was born by a virgin before Isis and Horus or walked on water or resurrected from the dead before Osiris or Mithra or Krishna. You'll never be able to provide a single artifact left behind in any place showing that there was a virgin Mary or Jesus. All the stories happened in your unholy bible. On the contrary, evidence abound in Egypt in sculpture and writing showing that a virgin conceived and begat a messiah called Horus, 5,000 years before anybody heard of Mary or Jesus. If you travel to Egypt today, you'll still see an inscription at the Abydos temple of Seti I, it is written on stone saying about Isis ''I am the great virgin'' who begat Horus. Thousands of years before Mary or Jesus, the concept of a virgin mother giving birth to a messiah was already known in Africa, India, Iran, Mexico. It was nothing new!. Your bible is simple a plagiarism with names changed!. [img]https://2.bp..com/-2U5WTyF2a60/XIgrlTr9JTI/AAAAAAAABYM/L5h1TYtpDr8y2my3n4ga0ax_S7mwEN81gCLcBGAs/s1600/ISIS%2BHORUS%2BMARY%2BJESUS.jpg[/img] The ankh is not evidence taken out of context. In fact, in ancient Egypt, the ankh represented the way, the truth, life. Bart Ehrman has said many times that you all are misquoting him. The comment you credited to him was a snap reply he gave in an interview as a general short answer, not a detailed answer. If you need details, read his books on Christianity and I bet you'll free yourself from this indoctrination. When you all began misquoting him, he wrote a book; misquoting Jesus. Go and read it if you really love the true history of your mythical Jesus. Any place you read in your bible that ''Jesus said'' its simply literature because there was no such person called Jesus who said such a thing. Mr. Ehrman states that ''in the entire first century, Jesus is not mentioned by a single Greek or Roman historian, religion scholar, politician, philosopher or poet. His name never occurs in a single inscription and it is never found in a single piece of private correspondence. Zero!. Zip references!!................ Dr. Bart Ehrman, professor of religious studies, University of North Carolina, USA. [img]https://4.bp..com/-yYtsKdceBsE/XIgvD9HZhBI/AAAAAAAABYc/bvoySum11BE0kgxOchSrPxUrA8j68QkoQCLcBGAs/s1600/Bart%2BEhrman.png[/img] There you have it!. Your preferred scholar said Jesus could not be found in history. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by JJOF(m): 9:04am On Mar 13, 2019 |
JJOF:ArchAngelos999, the scripture is 1 Jn 5 vs 16 - 19. Take note of that when he was talking abt d sin dat leads 2 death, he used a singular noun. |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by JJOF(m): 9:27am On Mar 13, 2019 |
ArchAngelos999:WTF do u mean? Then y don't go write ur own bible n ensure only d words of Jesus is in it? The apst were spirit, n had an alignment with d Spirit, which no man, or very few persons in our time ve dat level of alignment. Why would d holyspirit allow d apst to teach d church erroneous messager, wen his work is to ensure dat we're guided in2 truth? Yeah, it's true dat Peter thought that salvation was only 4 d jews, but leta on, he was correctd by d HS. To b continued... |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by JJOF(m): 9:35am On Mar 13, 2019 |
Moreover, Peter didn't create a doctrine around his bliv dat salvation is just 4 d jews, cus d holyspirit knew it was erroneous, and as a result didn't allow peter to. So it's wrong to opine dat d apsts may b in error just bcus they re not in support of ur erroneous blivs. |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by ArchAngelos999: 10:13am On Mar 13, 2019 |
musicwriter: How is Isis a virgin when she only got pregnant after sleeping with the dead, dismembered body of osirus which had a missing penis which was then replaced by a golden object? Is this your definition of virgin birth? The symbol of a bird(Isis) on the golden artificial penis of Osiris clearly showed there was no virgin birth for Horus. Osiris was not resurrected from the dead in the real sense of resurrection. He was sort of in between death and life state when Isis mounted him, and died fully afterwards, is that your resurrection? Mithras wasn't born, he emerged as a fully grown man from a rock, is that your virgin birth? Mithras also never died. Even if the ankh meant life to Egyptians, it doesn't affect the historical fact that Roman crucified Christ on a cross. There's no plagiarism. The alleged similarities you'll find is in Catholicism which is a mash up of Christ and paganism, not original New Testament Christianity Artifacts of Christ? He wasn't an earthly king, so he doesn't have statues. And unlike paganism we do not use objects to worship, so you won't find idols Jesus is not mentioned by anybody in the first century. It's astonishing that you could say that, here: Lucius of Samosata Tacitus, a Roman historian Pliny the younger Josephus Mara Bar-Serapion The new testament itself is a witness over 24k manuscripts about Christ Also Bart Ehrman is a showbiz scholar. If you want to get fame just start saying things against the gospel, that's why he's so popular. And to say that reply was a snap comment is funny, the guy said no discrepancy affects doctrine, period! I can't say this enough. Get peer-reviewed materials, that stand up to academic scrutiny. Jesus is the Light of the World 1 Like |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by ArchAngelos999: 10:18am On Mar 13, 2019 |
JJOF: Even Paul said let God be true but every man a liar. The Epistles are great but Jesus is the final authority. |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by ArchAngelos999: 10:30am On Mar 13, 2019 |
JJOF: Thank you for answering yourself. Peter had the holy Spirit but he went into error. It is the same holy Spirit we have today, but you must let His word and Spirit guide you |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by ArchAngelos999: 10:34am On Mar 13, 2019 |
undisputed106: Those he told, "I never knew you", were not believers, they were false prophets. You also said any little mistake is hell. If mistake = hell, even you will enter that hell. If you could be saved by works, what then is the usefulness of Christ. 1 Like |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by musicwriter(m): 3:34pm On Mar 13, 2019 |
ArchAngelos999: The new testament is not a witness to anything!. There're no original copies to support that it wasn't manufactured in Rome. In fact, a Greeco-Roman named Origien, who was one of the first scholar who could read both Hebrew and Greek, said the Greek Septuagint bible was telling a different story from the Jewish scripts at that time. Origien was ostracized by the church after telling them the truth. The problem you people have is using emotion to answer questions of logic. I understand how your brain rationalize things at this time and it must be very difficult for you. Otherwise, you'll have understood how contradictory the statement ''The alleged similarities you'll find is in Catholicism which is a mash up of Christ and paganism, not original New Testament Christianity.'' You think your Christianity fell from the sky? The Catholic church wrote your bible!. They created Jesus! The Catholic church laid the foundation for your Christianity!. All the supposed sources were mocking Christians for being dumb or were forgery!. I have checked the history books, and everything you believed in Jesus is based on the below passing quotes made by ''Roman authors'' or someone who just made a passing comment. Here is the bad news. The below quotes are either a forgery, a joke, or just a passing comment that could have been referring to any other messiah out of hundreds of supposed messiahs at that time. 1). An author named Origen (184 AD- 253 AD), an accomplished writer, in one of his writings, quoted another Greeco-Roman author named Celsus, who said that Mary was "convicted of adultery and had a child by a certain soldier named Pantera". Tiberius Pantera may have been serving as a Roman soldier in the region of Palestine at the time of Jesus's supposed conception. Both the ancient Talmud and medieval Jewish writings and sayings reinforced this notion, referring to Jesus as "Yeshu ben Pantera" (Jesus son of Pantera). In the quote, you can see clearly that people knew that Mary got pregnant by sleeping with a Roman soldier. The same way Nigerian soldiers posted in Liberia and all the other conflict zones in the past, got people pregnant over there. The early people living in Palestine knew how Mary got pregnant by infidelity. There was no virgin birth according to your own source!. 2). Roman historian, Cornelius Tacitus (117 AD), mentioned ''Christus'' in one of his writings when he said ''consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus.'' The Greek word ''Christus'' was the label for anybody who came forward as leader of the Jewish/Israeli movement against Rome. There were hundreds of ''ChristusES'' emerging from time to time as leader of the people against Rome. All the people who came forward to free their people were called ''christus'', ''messiah'', ''savior'', ''redeemer''. Hundreds of such ''ChristusES'' were killed by Rome. He could have been talking about any of them. 3). Another person, Lucian of Samasota (120 AD- 192 AD), who was a Greek comedian, and while satirizing the situation at that time, wrote, ''he was second only to that one whom they still worship today, the man in Palestine whom they crucified because he brought this new form of initiation into the world. Having convinced themselves that they are immortal and will live forever, the poor wretches despite death and most willingly give themselves to it. Moreover, that first lawgiver of theirs persuaded them that they are all brothers the moment they transgress and deny the Greek Gods and begin worshiping that crucified sophist and living by his laws.'' The above quote is indeed a mockery showing that Christianity was already known to be such a dumb religion from the beginning. 4). A Roman historian, Suetonius (70 AD- 126 AD), wrote ''as the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome.’’ Like the previous ''Christus'', it wasn't a name of any person but a label to a leader of battle against Rome, just like Muslims today still say ''Mujahideen''. Today in Nigeria, Asari Dokubo goes by the name Mujahideen' Asari Dokubo, of course, in his battle against the Nigerian system. 5). A Jewish playwright, Flavius Josephus (37 AD-100 AD), wrote ''Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works- a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the gentiles. He was Christ and when Pilate at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.'' Another quote credited to Flavius Josephus, reads ''Festius was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others.'' Again, at that time, the word ''Christ'' was not a name of a particular person but a generic name for the leader of any gang of trouble makers that emerged against Roman occupation of Judea and environs at that time. Moreover, historians have long discredited Josephus's quote as a forgery for hundreds of years. Its a pity you people keep pushing it around. With common sense, you can see clearly his quote is an over ambitious quote to make a point about Jesus being God. It might also interest you to note that Josephus was a Jew and a sell-out to Rome, who joined foreigners to enslave his people. His name was formerly simply Josephus but the ruling Roman FLAVIAN dynasty at that time adopted him into the Roman elite and added ''Flavius'' to his name. Flavius is a name of a Roman dynasty. Historians have long discredited him as a forgery and he is suspected to be the writer of the new testament part of the bible. Your whole faith in Jesus as the savior is based on the above quotes. That's all there is outside of the bible, and all men stated above began writing many years after the Jesus myth as the savior of the world has been established by the Roman Catholic church. Free yourself brother!. |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by JJOF(m): 7:29pm On Mar 13, 2019 |
ArchAngelos999:U sim 2 nt get me. Wat I'm tryna say is dat for John to ve admonish d church on dat topic, n evn build a doctrine around it means dat oda apsts agree to, n evn d holyspirit also agrees. In d case of Peter, d holyspirit knew he ws in error, n so correctd him via a trance, n it ws recorded in d scriptures. But there's no whre in d scriptures where u'll find dt d HS correctd John on dat statemnt he made. Moreovr, evn Jesus suports wat John said. I hate it wen persons who call demselves xtians say dat some authors of d bible md flaws in their mesages. Wen non-xtians say so, IDGAF, but wen xtians do, it frigin anoys, cus if u question d authority of d bible, den by wat book do u want to live by? I BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST, AND I BELIEVE THAT EVERYTHING FOUND IN THE BIBLE IS APPROVED BY THE HOLYSPIRIT, AND IF ANY PART OF THE BIBLE SEEMS CONFUSING, THE PROBLEM IS WITH MY MIND, AND NOT THE BIBLE, AND AS SUCH, I PRAY TO THE HOLYSPIRIT TO GRANT ME UNDERSTANDING. |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by ArchAngelos999: 12:02am On Mar 14, 2019 |
JJOF: Jesus is what the Bible testifies about. Anything that doesn't agree with Jesus is the word of men. The Bible is the words of God, of men, of angels and even demons. bible simply means a collection of books. you must filter and decipher the Jesus from the collection of books. 1 Like |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by ArchAngelos999: 1:31am On Mar 14, 2019 |
musicwriter: The Septuagint is about the old testament which was translated to Greek at the time of Ptolemy II, its not new testament. And it isn't different from the Masoretic O. T, of course there are different words used in different places as is expected in translation. The idea that the Roman Catholic Church created Christianity is just being dishonest. "Roman" is the key word. Maybe the word Catholic confuses you. Catholic in the early days was used as a collective name for the church because it means Universal, in that sense Catholics wrote the new testament, namely John, Peter, etc. The Roman Catholic Church started after Constantine legalized Christianity. Before then Nero and others brutalized and persecuted Christians and made Christianity illegal. These were the real Christians practicing New Testament Christianity, devoid of statues and pantheon of gods masqueraded as "saints". These are the obvious distinctions between Roman Catholicism and New Testament Christianity. Clearly it wasn't the R.C that wrote the New Testament. If it were them the New Testament would be full of Mary worship, Saints prayers, how to sell indulgences, purgatory, building statues and the likes. It should now be clear that this argument is dead on arrival You say everything I believe about Christ is from passing statements, that's obviously not well-thought out. Is my belief in the Lordship, death, burial and resurrection based on these passing statements? Obviously not. We are only talking about this because you were the one who said you needed extra biblical references. The idea that Jesus was the illegitimate child of a Roman soldier was gotten from the Talmud. And who wrote the Talmud? The Jews who condemned Jesus to death. What are the chances that they will say anything divine about the birth of the one they are denying? Zero. It's a case of misinformation. It would be an indictment on them to ascribed divinity or any form of specialty on the one they crucified. If there were so many Messiahs how come they know this one so well? To add to that the Talmud was written over a long period of time and there are intentional embellishments in it, even when it talks about Old Testament events. So embellishing the story of one they hate would be welcomed, its propaganda On Tacitus, it's funny how you are walking on truth and still arguing, lol. This historian pinpoints a Christ amongst the so-called hundreds, by staying that it was Pontus Pilate who was the leader at the time of Christ in agreement with the Bible, who is the leader of the Christians in Nero's time who were intensively persecuted. Congratulations! You just found The Christ. Lord God this is funny. Freedom from the truth is a dangerous state. Its the climax of bondage. Lucius, again I can't help but laugh at this scenario. Lucius again pinpoints this Christ as one who was crucified. That most likely means there was only one Christ who was crucified, the one who promised them immortality(eternal life), whom they worship. To him this was dumb, still he proves that this was what the early Christians believed, in a Person Jesus Christ, not in a transformed myth. Yes, those works of Josephus where he's seen to glorify Jesus is agreed to be an interpolation by probably a Christian. However the neutral statement show he's talking about one Christ, not one of many. Bonanza: In the Talmud, Yeshua(Jesus) was accused of sorcery and blasphemy. Miracles would be what his opposition would call sorcery. To accuse Him of sorcery means He had to be doing supernatural things at least. The accusation of blasphemy would be what the gospels record numerously, that the Jews said, calling Himself God. Phlegon "In the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad (i.e., AD 33) there was ‘the greatest eclipse of the sun’ and that ‘it became night in the sixth hour of the day [i.e., noon] so that stars even appeared in the heavens. There was a great earthquake in Bithynia, and many things were overturned in Nicaea.’" He was talking about the darkness and earthquake that followed Christ's Crucifixion What should the truth look like for you to believe, because you have the truth about Jesus, but you don't like it? If you honestly, humbly wanted truth you would understand that the accounts you just gave confirms the Bible. I'm more free in Christ than you'll ever be without Him. Receive Christ Jesus and be truly free. God bless you 1 Like |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by Zither(m): 8:51am On Mar 14, 2019 |
Toks2008: Lies. Anyone who believes this puts his or her soul in jeopardy. Hebrews 10:38 - Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 1 Peter 4:18 - Now, If the righteous one is scarcely saved, Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear? Eternal security is a doctrine of the devil. As long as you think you cannot lose your salvation while you continue in sin, you are on your way to perdition. Even Jesus Himself said He would tell those who said they heal in His name and perform all sorts of miracles in His name to depart from Him. Why? They were workers of iniquity, and the wages of sin will always be spiritual death. 1 Like |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by ArchAngelos999: 10:58am On Mar 14, 2019 |
musicwriter: |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by Toks2008(m): 11:57am On Mar 14, 2019 |
Zither: Then be ready to end up in hell if you ever commit just one sin before you die. |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by musicwriter(m): 7:55pm On Mar 14, 2019 |
ArchAngelos999: Part one (1). No, you don't understand what Origien was protesting about. Origien was not talking about ''different words used in different places''. Origien was speaking about whole Jewish concepts being bastardized to suit the bible writers. Example; the concept of salvation. According to Jewish question and answer site www.jewfaq.org, is states ''The concept of salvation from sin as it is understood in Christianity has no equivalent in Judaism. Salvation from sin is unnecessary in Judaism, because Judaism does not believe that mankind is inherently evil or sinful or in need of Divine Intervention in order to escape eternal damnation. In fact, Judaism does not even believe in eternal damnation. Judaism recognizes that people have sinful impulses, but Judaism also recognizes that people have an inclination to do good and to be good, and that people are able to choose whether to follow the evil inclination or the good inclination. When the Torah speaks of G-d as our Salvation or our Redeemer, it is not speaking of salvation or redemption from sin; rather, it speaks of salvation from the very concrete, day-to-day problems that we face, such as redemption from slavery in Egypt, or salvation from our enemies in war. '' A Jewish wikipedia source also state ''In contemporary Judaism, redemption (Hebrew ge'ulah), refers to God redeeming the people of Israel from their various exiles. This includes the final redemption from the present exile. Judaism holds that adherents do not need personal salvation as Christians believe. Jews do not subscribe to the doctrine of original sin. Instead, they place a high value on individual morality as defined in the law of God — embodied in what Jews know as the Torah or The Law, given to Moses by God on biblical Mount Sinai. In Judaism, salvation is closely related to the idea of redemption, a saving from the states or circumstances that destroy the value of human existence. God, as the universal spirit and Creator of the World, is the source of all salvation for humanity, provided an individual honours God by observing his precepts. So redemption or salvation depends on the individual. Judaism stresses that salvation cannot be obtained through anyone else or by just invoking a deity or believing in any outside power (Jesus) or influence''..... So, you see that your bibles concept of salvation is a bastardized version of the original Jewish concept in the Jewish old testament. Your bible's concept of salvation was invented by the Roman catholic church and it is a fraud!. According to the original Jewish source, the savior is simply coming to give salvation the Jews by making peace in their land. It was never a global savior!. Your bible is a fraud according to the original Jewish concept of salvation. Do you want to know the history of your bible? The man below was a former overzealous Jehovah's Witnesses, but he was lucky as he realized the falsehood of Christianity. He is now helping others understand the historicity of Christianity. In the video below, he spent 6 hours explaining the history of your bible and the fraud that has accompanied Christianity over the centuries. The real history of the bible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox2I4Wh3VRU You're being very mischievous saying the catholic church is not the foundation of Christianity!. The first time a church ever split from the catholic church was in 1054 AD in what they call the great schism, that was when the catholic church got split into two. That event was later to lead to further splits over the centuries. If you trace the origin of your church, your final landing church will be the catholic church. Whether you're Anglican, Baptist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Methodist, Presbyterian, or whatever denomination, it all came as a result of further split of splits and more splits from the catholic church over the centuries. No matter what denomination you're, as long as you go to church, you're still a catholic. In fact, if you're not a catholic, you're not a christian!. Please I never asked for biblical references for proof of Jesus as that would be a stupid thing to do. I asked for artifacts showing your Jesus was a real living person. Your whole believe in Jesus is predicated on the promise your God made to the Jews. So, if you don't believe your Jesus was an illegitimate child as believed by the Jews, then you have no right to believe Jesus was promised to the Jews..... let alone being your savior. The Jews know their religion and has practiced it for thousands of years before Christianity, so it is arrogant of you to tell the Jews who the messiah should be. Be respectful and allow them tell you who's the messiah since it was promised to them, not you. And no, the Jews never condemned your Jesus to death. Rome was the one killing ''messiahs'' who challenged their occupation of Judea and environs. Jews never killed their supporters. It is the doctored history served you by Christianity that would have you believe that the Jews killed your Jesus. Jews were being colonized at that time and were not in charge of administering justice. When Nigeria was British colony, Britain administered justice not Nigerians. So did all colonial powers everywhere. The Jesus the Jews know and talked about in the Talmud was not born by a virgin, he did not walk on water, he did not feed 5,000 people with two loaves of bread, he did not resurrect from the dead. Your Jesus is different from the Jewish Jesus. Your Jesus is a creation of the Roman catholic church. What I will do here is show you Jewish thoughts about their Jesus Vs your Jesus. In the book; the greatest deception ever sold; written by Edward L. Nydle & Levi bar Ido. They state as follows:- ''There is a great deception that has permeated the whole world by the man-made world religion called “Christianity”. This deception claims to be based upon history, Scripture, and the recorded teachings of our Master Yahshua, His disciples, and Rav Shaul. It is the myth of the anti-Torah and anti-Jewish life and teachings of a “Christ” whom they call by a Greek/Latin name- “Jesus”. They believe His purported contention with the Jewish people became a divine judgment upon a “faithless people” that rejected Him and His teachings and killed him because of his religion and opposition to the Torah of Moshe. The believing Christian is convinced that the Jewish Yahshua of history and the “Christ” of the church are one and the same. They could not be more deceived.'' ''Between the time that Yahshua walked the earth and the time his teachings were written down (around the end of the first century C.E) and the third century Yahshua was made into the image of a “Christian”. This meant they molded him into an anti-Torah teacher who was far removed from the teachings of Judaism. He no longer was the Torah observant Jewish rabbi who lived and died as a Jew but a combination of all the pagan mystery religious figures combined into one god-man. The new “church” of Constantine created a false “Christ” called “Jesus” who came to do away with the Law of Moshe and replace the people of Yisrael with a new and better religion that offered salvation to anyone who would only believe in the person called “Jesus”. The audience for the message had changed: it was no longer intended for the Jews but focused upon the pagans- believers on the gods and goddesses like Mithras, Dionysius, Isis, and Demeter- and thus needed a new package flavored with anti-Jewish statements and replacement theology. The Torah of Moshe had been left behind along with the true history of the Jewish Messiah, Yahshua. The distance between reality and fiction created a gap that was now forever unbridgeable. The church has effectively buried the Yahshua of history and substituted their theological myths of the “Christ”, a fictional figure with a streak of anti-Semitism, wholly incompatible with the Messiah of the Jewish apostolic tradition. There would be no compromise between fact and fiction in what would become “Christian Orthodoxy”. This required a reinterpretation of historical facts and a triumphant victory of the artificial “Jesus” of the Roman church over the true Yahshua of history.'' '' The Christian historians and theologians have robbed Yahshua from Nazareth of his Jewishness and made him into a Christian after their own image. Not only Yahshua, but his family and disciples have been treated as Christians rather than Jews. There is not one verse in the Brit Chadasha that even hints that they were anything other than Orthodox, observant Jews in the most traditional sense of the word. They never called themselves Christians, nor were they ever called Christians. It was the Roman church that invented this deception and is truly the mother of all those who adhere to it. In order that their Replacement theology could be put into place and written into their commentaries, the Jewishness of Yahshua and the disciples had to be stripped from them. Every effort has been made to deny the Jewishness of the Brit Chadasha and its authors. It is very difficult for the average reader of the Brit Chadasha to separate the gold from the dross in the Gospels and the letters of Shaul.'' ''Constantine's intention at Nicaea was to create an entirely new god for his empire who would unite all religious factions under one deity. Presbyters were asked to debate and decide who their new god would be. Delegates argued among themselves, expressing personal motives for inclusion of particular writings that promoted the finer traits of their own special deity. Throughout the meeting, howling factions were immersed in heated debates, and the names of 53 gods were tabled for discussion. Constantine was the ruling spirit at Nicaea and he ultimately decided upon a new god for them. To involve British factions, he ruled that the name of the great Druid god, Hesus, be joined with the Eastern Savior-god, Krishna (Krishna is Sanskrit for Christ), and thus Hesus Krishna would be the official name of the new Roman god. A vote was taken and it was with a majority show of hands (161 votes to 157) that both divinities became one God. Following longstanding heathen custom, Constantine used the official gathering and the Roman apotheosis decree to legally deify two deities as one, and did so by democratic consent. A new god was proclaimed and "officially" ratified by Constantine (Acta Concilii Nicaeni, 1618). That purely political act of deification effectively and legally placed Hesus and Krishna among the Roman gods as one individual composite. That abstraction lent Earthly existence to amalgamated doctrines for the Empire's new religion; and because there was no letter "J" in alphabets until around the ninth century, the name subsequently evolved into "Jesus Christ.'' As you can see, your Jesus is different from the Jewish Jesus. Again, your Jesus is a creation of the Roman catholic church. |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by musicwriter(m): 7:57pm On Mar 14, 2019 |
ArchAngelos999: Part (2) You're taking Lucian's joke literally. Lucian was not saying there was a Jesus, rather he was mocking people for being so stupid to believe such a savior character. He was a comedian and he was making fun that only fools would believe that someone has died to save them. Imagine Basketmouth making a joke and you're taking it literally!. Where is your brain? Your Jesus has no identity in history. It is said that Roman colonialists killed upwards of 5,000 ''JesusES'' per day!. There would have been tens of thousands of JesusES killed under the tenure of Pontus Pilate. Josephus could have been talking about any Jesus. In fact, Josephus in his book; the Jewish wars, the rebellion, mentioned more than 90 Jesus!. Just how many JesusES could Josephus be talking about? Below is how historian, Kenneth Humphreys, answered the question, in his book; Jesus never existed: Was there a Jesus? Of course there was a Jesus – many! The archetypal Jewish hero was Joshua (the successor of Moses) otherwise known as Yehoshua (Yeshua) bin Nun (‘Jesus of the fish’). Since the name Jesus (Yeshua or Yeshu in Hebrew, Iesous in Greek, source of the English spelling) originally was a title (meaning ‘saviour’, derived from ‘Yahweh Saves’) probably every band in the Jewish resistance had its own hero figure sporting this moniker, among others. Josephus, the first century Jewish historian mentions no fewer than nineteen different Yeshuas/Jesii, about half of them contemporaries of the supposed Christ! In his Antiquities, of the twenty-eight high priests who held office from the reign of Herod the Great to the fall of the Temple, no fewer than four bore the name Jesus: Jesus ben Phiabi, Jesus ben Sec, Jesus ben Damneus and Jesus ben Gamaliel. Even Saint Paul makes reference to a rival magician, preaching ‘another Jesus’ (2 Corinthians 11,4). The surfeit of early Jesuses includes: Jesus ben Sirach. This Jesus was reputedly the author of the Book of Sirach (aka 'Ecclesiasticus, or the Wisdom of Jesus the Son of Sirach'), part of Old Testament Apocrypha. Ben Sirach, writing in Greek about 180 BC, brought together Jewish 'wisdom' and Homeric-style heroes. Jesus ben Pandira. A wonder-worker during the reign of Alexander Jannaeus (106-79 BC), one of the most ruthless of the Maccabean kings. Imprudently, this Jesus launched into a career of end-time prophecy and agitation which upset the king. He met his own premature end-time by being hung on a tree – and on the eve of a Passover. Scholars have speculated this Jesus founded the Essene sect. Jesus ben Ananias. Beginning in 62AD, this Jesus had caused disquiet in Jerusalem with a non-stop doom-laden mantra of ‘Woe to the city’. He prophesied rather vaguely: "A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides, and a voice against the whole people." – Josephus, Wars 6.3. Arrested and flogged by the Romans, Jesus ben Ananias was released as nothing more dangerous than a mad man. He died during the siege of Jerusalem from a rock hurled by a Roman catapult. Jesus ben Saphat. In the insurrection of 68AD that wrought havoc in Galilee, this Jesus had led the rebels in Tiberias ("the leader of a seditious tumult of mariners and poor people" – Josephus, Life 12.66). When the city was about to fall to Vespasian’s legionaries he fled north to Tarichea on the Sea of Galilee. Jesus ben Gamala. During 68/69 AD this Jesus was a leader of the ‘peace party’ in the civil war wrecking Judaea. From the walls of Jerusalem he had remonstrated with the besieging Idumeans (led by ‘James and John, sons of Susa’). It did him no good. When the Idumeans breached the walls he was put to death and his body thrown to the dogs and carrion birds. Jesus ben Thebuth. A priest who, in the final capitulation of the upper city in 69AD, saved his own skin by surrendering the treasures of the Temple, which included two holy candlesticks, goblets of pure gold, sacred curtains and robes of the high priests. The booty figured prominently in the Triumph held for Vespasian and his son Titus. But was there a crucified Jesus? Certainly. Jesus ben Stada was a Judean agitator who gave the Romans a headache in the early years of the second century. He met his end in the town of Lydda (twenty five miles from Jerusalem) at the hands of a Roman crucifixion crew. And given the scale that Roman retribution could reach – at the height of the siege of Jerusalem the Romans were crucifying upwards of five hundred captives a day before the city walls – dead heroes called Jesus would (quite literally) have been thick on the ground. Not one merits a full-stop in the great universal history. But then with so many Jesuses could there not have been a Jesus of Nazareth? The problem for this notion is that absolutely nothing at all corroborates the sacred biography and yet this 'greatest story' is peppered with numerous anachronisms, contradictions and absurdities. For example, at the time that Joseph and the pregnant Mary are said to have gone off to Bethlehem for a supposed Roman census, Galilee (unlike Judaea) was not a Roman province and therefore ma and pa would have had no reason to make the journey. Even if Galilee had been imperial territory, history knows of no ‘universal census’ ordered by Augustus (nor any other emperor) – and Roman taxes were based on property ownership not on a head count. Then again, we now know that Nazareth did not exist before the second century. It is mentioned not at all in the Old Testament nor by Josephus, who waged war across the length and breadth of Galilee (a territory about the size of Greater London) and yet Josephus records the names of dozens of other towns. In fact most of the ‘Jesus-action’ takes place in towns of equally doubtful provenance, in hamlets so small only partisan Christians know of their existence (yet well attested pagan cities, with extant ruins, failed to make the Jesus itinerary). What should alert us to wholesale fakery here is that practically all the events of Jesus’s supposed life appear in the lives of mythical figures of far more ancient origin. Whether we speak of miraculous birth, prodigious youth, miracles or wondrous healings – all such 'signs' had been ascribed to other gods, centuries before any Jewish holy man strolled about. Jesus’s supposed utterances and wisdom statements are equally common place, being variously drawn from Jewish scripture, neo-Platonic philosophy or commentaries made by Stoic and Cynic sages.'' No, Phlegon or whoever that quote credited to wasn't talking about any eclipse following a Christ death. Again, there were thousands of such deaths, there were thousands of such ''messiahs'' put to death by Rome. You and the catholic church are he ones linking a mundane natural eclipse to your myth. Nobody knows the date of your Jesus death. Nobody knows the date of the so called eclipse. Eclipse is a natural phenomenon and there's nothing messianic or spiritual about it. Eclipse occur at least twice every year and its not a miracle. Please stop insulting your brain!. Do you know there has already been three eclipses this year 2019? In fact, the total number of eclipse that would occur in the 21th century has already been calculated and it runs into a thousand. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_solar_eclipses_in_the_21st_century Finally, as I said earlier, I used to believe the Jesus myth when I was a fool. Remove your emotional attachment to the myth, do your research on Christianity and you'll understand what a stupid thing it is to be a Christian. If there was such a great miraculous man who came to save the world, he would have written hundreds of books by himself or at least have others write it for him as an autobiography during his lifetime. He won't need you defend his existence. There were hundreds of authors alive at the time your Jesus supposedly lived but none of them said a word about him or his great miracles. If there was any Jesus who was born by a virgin and resurrected from the dead, the following authors would have told the world:- Livy Born: 59 BC Died: 17 AD Profession: Historian Full name: Titus Livius Nationality: Roman Philo Born: 25 BC (Egypt) Died: 50 AD Full name: Philo Judaeus Profession: Philosopher & author Nephews: Tiberius Julius Alexander, Marcus Julius Alexander Siblings: Alexander the Alabarch Nationality: Egypt Seneca Born 4 BC Died AD 65 (aged 68–69) Profession: philosopher & poet Nationality: Roman Elder Pliny Born: 23 AD Died: August 25th, 79 AD Full name: Gaius Plinius Secundus Nationality: Roman Children: Pliny the Younger There were many of such great philosophers, poets, historians, leaders; being cited in history as living during the same time Jesus was supposed to have lived. Yet, none of them mentioned Jesus or a Messiah throughout their writings. These authors were like the newspapers of their day and they recorded every important event, but none of them said anything about Jesus. Just think about it. You're not free!. Christianity was given us by our conquerors when they held our ancestors as slaves. Christianity was given us to maintain the slave system and to stop people from thinking, just as you believe an eclipse was a miracle by God instead of a natural phenomenon. No nation can prosper with that kind of thinking. Goodbye. |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by musicwriter(m): 8:02pm On Mar 14, 2019 |
ArchAngelos999: Part (3) Bonanza How to free yourself from religious indoctrination. This man was born into a church family, his father is a pastor, his mother is a pastor also. Watch how he freed himself from religious indoctrination by making use of his brain. There're 8 episodes, the one below is episode 1. Youtube will show you the rest. He now teaches others how to free themselves from religious indoctrination. Why I Am No Longer a Christian- episode 1.0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOmSYHzeoNA&list=PLA0C3C1D163BE880A This testimony is from a former pastor who freed himself from religious indoctrination, though, unfortunately he's now an atheist. He's now an atheist because he made the mistake of thinking religion is the way to God. In the below video, he narrates his story. Why I No Longer Believe In God- Full documentary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5ZLuRYp8gk 1 Like |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by ArchAngelos999: 10:28pm On Mar 14, 2019 |
musicwriter: this is becoming very unproductive. Of course Jews will speak against Christians and Christ. Who would want to admit that his fathers missed and crucified God in the flesh? you can read the full contexts on your own Original sin Psalms 51:5 [5]Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. Old covenant was by Moses, New covenant is in Christ Jeremiah 31:31-32 [31]Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [32]NOT ACCORDING to the COVENANT that I made with their FATHERS in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of EGYPT; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: Christ suffering for sins of others Isaiah 53:10 [10]Yet it pleased the LORD to BRUISE HIM; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his SOUL an OFFERING for SIN, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. When Christ returns the Jews will see that they pierced him Zechariah 12:10 [10]And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and THEY SHALL LOOK UPON ME WHOM THEY HAVE PIERCED, and they shall mourn for HIM, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his FIRSTBORN. The whole Bible points to one person, Jesus. He's not an afterthought. I can't go into deeper things since you don't understand the basics. I also notice once I debunk an argument, you'll repackage it. A lie is still a lie when repeated over and over. God has given us freewill, we can be saved by the finished works of Christ or we can refuse it. I have made my point and I have seen yours. It's been interactive, let's call it a wrap. Cheers |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by 5solas(m): 6:56pm On Mar 17, 2019 |
ArchAngelos999: You might have misunderstood my post. I agree completely with yours. Mine wasn't saying Judas was an example of a person who had then lost salvation. I was saying his life was an example of the kind of persons (who were not in faith) and of whom Christ would say, " I NEVER knew you"! |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by ArchAngelos999: 8:25pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
5solas: sorry bro. i actually realized after quoting. I left it for the other person to read it too. Just thought about sharing this, in John 15, the Greek words translated as "taketh away" and "purged" have the same root word, airo and Kathairo, therefore the kjv rendered it wrongly. The "taketh away" actually means cleansed and restored based on how grape production was done in that era. So the verse isn't actually saying God will cut believers off. Rather it's saying believers are helped to produce fruits of righteousness 1 Like |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by unstoppable51(m): 6:02pm On Mar 27, 2019 |
*Important Update: answers to some questions left here has been posted on [url=https/www.feedmejesus.com]FEEDMEJESUS[/url] Do check it out |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by madegreatbygrace(m): 11:17pm On Mar 27, 2019 |
[The believer is not the man that doesn't sin. He's just that man that doesn't enjoy sin anymore. So,if a "believer" returns to his evil way, then it means he wasn't really saved in the first place.quote author=Olusholasimon post=76513763]My question please. if a believer return to his evil way despite confessing & accepting Jesus & died will he be saved. Sin our sins are not written against us again then we don't need to ask for the forgiveness of sins again. What's your own definition for salvation or being saved ?? Thanks so much bro[/quote] |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by unstoppable51(m): 1:52am On Mar 28, 2019 |
madegreatbygrace:Hi bro. Good morning. Pls read WHAT IF A CHRISTIAN SAYS HE NO LONGER BELIEVES THE GOSPEL and check the homepage for other recent posts. Most of these questions have been properly dealt with there. Thank you. |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by solreb: 7:25am On Mar 28, 2019 |
I nouthor=musicwriter post=76605067] Do you know why I feel glad debating with anybody on this topic? You'll never be able to provide any proof that Jesus was born by a virgin before Isis and Horus or walked on water or resurrected from the dead before Osiris or Mithra or Krishna. You'll never be able to provide a single artifact left behind in any place showing that there was a virgin Mary or Jesus. All the stories happened in your unholy bible. On the contrary, evidence abound in Egypt in sculpture and writing showing that a virgin conceived and begat a messiah called Horus, 5,000 years before anybody heard of Mary or Jesus. If you travel to Egypt today, you'll still see an inscription at the Abydos temple of Seti I, it is written on stone saying about Isis ''I am the great virgin'' who begat Horus. Thousands of years before Mary or Jesus, the concept of a virgin mother giving birth to a messiah was already known in Africa, India, Iran, Mexico. It was nothing new!. Your bible is simple a plagiarism with names changed!. [img]https://2.bp..com/-2U5WTyF2a60/XIgrlTr9JTI/AAAAAAAABYM/L5h1TYtpDr8y2my3n4ga0ax_S7mwEN81gCLcBGAs/s1600/ISIS%2BHORUS%2BMARY%2BJESUS.jpg[/img] The ankh is not evidence taken out of context. In fact, in ancient Egypt, the ankh represented the way, the truth, life. Bart Ehrman has said many times that you all are misquoting him. The comment you credited to him was a snap reply he gave in an interview as a general short answer, not a detailed answer. If you need details, read his books on Christianity and I bet you'll free yourself from this indoctrination. When you all began misquoting him, he wrote a book; misquoting Jesus. Go and read it if you really love the true history of your mythical Jesus. Any place you read in your bible that ''Jesus said'' its simply literature because there was no such person called Jesus who said such a thing. Mr. Ehrman states that ''in the entire first century, Jesus is not mentioned by a single Greek or Roman historian, religion scholar, politician, philosopher or poet. His name never occurs in a single inscription and it is never found in a single piece of private correspondence. Zero!. Zip references!!................ Dr. Bart Ehrman, professor of religious studies, University of North Carolina, USA. [img]https://4.bp..com/-yYtsKdceBsE/XIgvD9HZhBI/AAAAAAAABYc/bvoySum11BE0kgxOchSrPxUrA8j68QkoQCLcBGAs/s1600/Bart%2BEhrman.png[/img] There you have it!. Your preferred scholar said Jesus could not be found in history. Where are you from? [/quote] |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by solreb: 1:27am On Apr 28, 2020 |
This is a doctrine of "once saved, you are forever saved" And this is a fallacy that will lead many to hell. Yes, we gain salvation by faith through believing in Christ. This implies that we have been justified righteous irrespective of our previous sin. If we die immediately after accepting Christ and commits no sin we will make heaven and not perish. However, a believer that has just been saved still lives in the world and all previous sinful habits will not just disappear. Hence you need to avoid exposure to those things that will cause you to since plus meditate on the word of God (which according to John 17:17 will sanctify you. Next stage after salvation is sanctification where the word of God through the Holy Spirit will help you to start getting rid of all the buts in your life. If you cannot lose salvation, Paul will not warn in Phil 2:12 "work out your salvation with fear and trembling". He will also not warn in Rom 6:1 that shall we continue in sin so that grace will continue? Jesus stated it clearly in Matt 7:21-23. Only those who do the will of the Father will enter kingdom of heaven. It is not those that got the tag "believer" and have earned salvation but the fruits of the Spirit are not evident in them. We all know the story of Ananias and Sapphira in Act 5. They were believers. They lied and died prematurely. Where will they end. HEAVEN or HELL? 2 Pet 2:18-21 warmed about Deceptions of False Teachers like in this case, In fact Peter warned in verse 20 that their end will be worse off since they had knowledge of the LORD and Saviour Christ Christ (i.e having gained salvation) but now backslide, their end will be worse than their beginning. SO, NO ONE SHOULD DECEIVE YOU THAT IT IS ELDORADO ONCE YOU HAVE GAINED SALVATION. YOU CAN LOSE IT. if you leave carelessly and ignore the nudging of the Holy Spirit. So, be warned |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by solreb: 1:30am On Apr 28, 2020 |
chilex9: These scriptures show you that you can lose your salvation contrary to what the OP opined. So, be warned |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by solreb: 1:32am On Apr 28, 2020 |
God bless you malvisguy212: 1 Like |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by solreb: 1:41am On Apr 28, 2020 |
greatdave:Excellent response. A believer must remain in good standing to protect his salvation. A true will have the holy spirit in him who will quickly convict him of his sin and the believer will never be comfortable until he asks for forgiveness and repents. That is the believer at sanctification stage. David in ps 119 (your words I hide in me that I may not seen). Ps 51 (create in me a new heart.... cast me not away …. restore unto me the joy of my salvation" Any opportunity I have to counter this kind of post, I find time to do it so that people will not be led astray. This is the kind of post the OP "unstoppable51" is noted for. I have countered him recently on another topic - Judgement Day" where he again opined that God would treat a sinful believer different than unbeliever (i.e the sinful will enter kingdom of God but would lose rewards) |
| Re: Answered: Can A Christian Lose His Salvation? by solreb: 1:49am On Apr 28, 2020 |
SEYIKP: God bless you and as many as have countered this erroneous opinion of the OP so that people would not be led astray. Ananias and Sapphira lied in Act 5. They lost their lives untimely and would go to hell. (Rev 20. No liar will go to heaven) |
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