DavidEsq: OP, u can see how most of ur readers have relied on the bible to prove ur opinion wrong. I met a lady who said the "bible says, we are higher than angels". I was shocked by this. I showed her the scripture where it was clear that Man is a "little lower" than the angels. She still argued that there ws another scripture that said man is "higher" than angels. I gave her a week to search out that scripture. It has been over a month, she never see am o! Her opinions are as a result of being misled by the likes of OP. Why in God's holy name would a person disregard the clear warnings from the scriptures, yet say "once saved, forever saved"? 2 Corinthians 4:4 explains this. U all may do well to read it.
It
It is the wrong doctrine that this OP )Stoppable) has been spreading. I took him on a recent posting on JUDGEMENT DAY where he brought in hos doctrine of "once saved forever saved" The doctrine is meant to lead people to hell.
WTF do u mean? Then y don't go write ur own bible n ensure only d words of Jesus is in it? The apst were spirit, n had an alignment with d Spirit, which no man, or very few persons in our time ve dat level of alignment. Why would d holyspirit allow d apst to teach d church erroneous messager, wen his work is to ensure dat we're guided in2 truth? Yeah, it's true dat Peter thought that salvation was only 4 d jews, but leta on, he was correctd by d HS. To b continued...
God bless you sir. This "Archie" guy is in the same boat as "Unstoppable" so you should expect him to continue to twist the bible to lead many astray
How is Isis a virgin when she only got pregnant after sleeping with the dead, dismembered body of osirus which had a missing penis which was then replaced by a golden object? Is this your definition of virgin birth? The symbol of a bird(Isis) on the golden artificial penis of Osiris clearly showed there was no virgin birth for Horus.
Osiris was not resurrected from the dead in the real sense of resurrection. He was sort of in between death and life state when Isis mounted him, and died fully afterwards, is that your resurrection?
Mithras wasn't born, he emerged as a fully grown man from a rock, is that your virgin birth? Mithras also never died.
Even if the ankh meant life to Egyptians, it doesn't affect the historical fact that Roman crucified Christ on a cross. There's no plagiarism.
The alleged similarities you'll find is in Catholicism which is a mash up of Christ and paganism, not original New Testament Christianity
Artifacts of Christ? He wasn't an earthly king, so he doesn't have statues. And unlike paganism we do not use objects to worship, so you won't find idols
Jesus is not mentioned by anybody in the first century. It's astonishing that you could say that, here:
Lucius of Samosata
Tacitus, a Roman historian
Pliny the younger Josephus Mara Bar-Serapion
The new testament itself is a witness over 24k manuscripts about Christ
Also Bart Ehrman is a showbiz scholar. If you want to get fame just start saying things against the gospel, that's why he's so popular. And to say that reply was a snap comment is funny, the guy said no discrepancy affects doctrine, period!
I can't say this enough. Get peer-reviewed materials, that stand up to academic scrutiny.
The new testament is not a witness to anything!. There're no original copies to support that it wasn't manufactured in Rome. In fact, a Greeco-Roman named Origien, who was one of the first scholar who could read both Hebrew and Greek, said the Greek Septuagint bible was telling a different story from the Jewish scripts at that time. Origien was ostracized by the church after telling them the truth.
The problem you people have is using emotion to answer questions of logic. I understand how your brain rationalize things at this time and it must be very difficult for you.
Otherwise, you'll have understood how contradictory the statement ''The alleged similarities you'll find is in Catholicism which is a mash up of Christ and paganism, not original New Testament Christianity.'' You think your Christianity fell from the sky?
The Catholic church wrote your bible!. They created Jesus! The Catholic church laid the foundation for your Christianity!.
All the supposed sources were mocking Christians for being dumb or were forgery!.
I have checked the history books, and everything you believed in Jesus is based on the below passing quotes made by ''Roman authors'' or someone who just made a passing comment. Here is the bad news. The below quotes are either a forgery, a joke, or just a passing comment that could have been referring to any other messiah out of hundreds of supposed messiahs at that time.
1). An author named Origen (184 AD- 253 AD), an accomplished writer, in one of his writings, quoted another Greeco-Roman author named Celsus, who said that Mary was "convicted of adultery and had a child by a certain soldier named Pantera".
Tiberius Pantera may have been serving as a Roman soldier in the region of Palestine at the time of Jesus's supposed conception. Both the ancient Talmud and medieval Jewish writings and sayings reinforced this notion, referring to Jesus as "Yeshu ben Pantera" (Jesus son of Pantera).
In the quote, you can see clearly that people knew that Mary got pregnant by sleeping with a Roman soldier. The same way Nigerian soldiers posted in Liberia and all the other conflict zones in the past, got people pregnant over there. The early people living in Palestine knew how Mary got pregnant by infidelity. There was no virgin birth according to your own source!.
2). Roman historian, Cornelius Tacitus (117 AD), mentioned ''Christus'' in one of his writings when he said ''consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus.''
The Greek word ''Christus'' was the label for anybody who came forward as leader of the Jewish/Israeli movement against Rome. There were hundreds of ''ChristusES'' emerging from time to time as leader of the people against Rome. All the people who came forward to free their people were called ''christus'', ''messiah'', ''savior'', ''redeemer''. Hundreds of such ''ChristusES'' were killed by Rome. He could have been talking about any of them.
3). Another person, Lucian of Samasota (120 AD- 192 AD), who was a Greek comedian, and while satirizing the situation at that time, wrote, ''he was second only to that one whom they still worship today, the man in Palestine whom they crucified because he brought this new form of initiation into the world. Having convinced themselves that they are immortal and will live forever, the poor wretches despite death and most willingly give themselves to it. Moreover, that first lawgiver of theirs persuaded them that they are all brothers the moment they transgress and deny the Greek Gods and begin worshiping that crucified sophist and living by his laws.''
The above quote is indeed a mockery showing that Christianity was already known to be such a dumb religion from the beginning.
4). A Roman historian, Suetonius (70 AD- 126 AD), wrote ''as the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome.’’
Like the previous ''Christus'', it wasn't a name of any person but a label to a leader of battle against Rome, just like Muslims today still say ''Mujahideen''. Today in Nigeria, Asari Dokubo goes by the name Mujahideen' Asari Dokubo, of course, in his battle against the Nigerian system.
5). A Jewish playwright, Flavius Josephus (37 AD-100 AD), wrote ''Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works- a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the gentiles. He was Christ and when Pilate at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.''
Another quote credited to Flavius Josephus, reads ''Festius was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others.''
Again, at that time, the word ''Christ'' was not a name of a particular person but a generic name for the leader of any gang of trouble makers that emerged against Roman occupation of Judea and environs at that time.
Moreover, historians have long discredited Josephus's quote as a forgery for hundreds of years. Its a pity you people keep pushing it around. With common sense, you can see clearly his quote is an over ambitious quote to make a point about Jesus being God. It might also interest you to note that Josephus was a Jew and a sell-out to Rome, who joined foreigners to enslave his people. His name was formerly simply Josephus but the ruling Roman FLAVIAN dynasty at that time adopted him into the Roman elite and added ''Flavius'' to his name. Flavius is a name of a Roman dynasty. Historians have long discredited him as a forgery and he is suspected to be the writer of the new testament part of the bible.
Your whole faith in Jesus as the savior is based on the above quotes. That's all there is outside of the bible, and all men stated above began writing many years after the Jesus myth as the savior of the world has been established by the Roman Catholic church.
Free yourself brother!.
God had mercy on Apostle Paul and he got converted. May God have mercy on you so that you would come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ the Saviour and the Light of the world
No, you don't understand what Origien was protesting about. Origien was not talking about ''different words used in different places''. Origien was speaking about whole Jewish concepts being bastardized to suit the bible writers.
Example; the concept of salvation.
According to Jewish question and answer site www.jewfaq.org, is states ''The concept of salvation from sin as it is understood in Christianity has no equivalent in Judaism.
Salvation from sin is unnecessary in Judaism, because Judaism does not believe that mankind is inherently evil or sinful or in need of Divine Intervention in order to escape eternal damnation. In fact, Judaism does not even believe in eternal damnation.
Judaism recognizes that people have sinful impulses, but Judaism also recognizes that people have an inclination to do good and to be good, and that people are able to choose whether to follow the evil inclination or the good inclination.
When the Torah speaks of G-d as our Salvation or our Redeemer, it is not speaking of salvation or redemption from sin; rather, it speaks of salvation from the very concrete, day-to-day problems that we face, such as redemption from slavery in Egypt, or salvation from our enemies in war. ''
A Jewish wikipedia source also state ''In contemporary Judaism, redemption (Hebrew ge'ulah), refers to God redeeming the people of Israel from their various exiles. This includes the final redemption from the present exile.
Judaism holds that adherents do not need personal salvation as Christians believe. Jews do not subscribe to the doctrine of original sin. Instead, they place a high value on individual morality as defined in the law of God — embodied in what Jews know as the Torah or The Law, given to Moses by God on biblical Mount Sinai.
In Judaism, salvation is closely related to the idea of redemption, a saving from the states or circumstances that destroy the value of human existence. God, as the universal spirit and Creator of the World, is the source of all salvation for humanity, provided an individual honours God by observing his precepts. So redemption or salvation depends on the individual. Judaism stresses that salvation cannot be obtained through anyone else or by just invoking a deity or believing in any outside power (Jesus) or influence''.....
So, you see that your bibles concept of salvation is a bastardized version of the original Jewish concept in the Jewish old testament.
Your bible's concept of salvation was invented by the Roman catholic church and it is a fraud!. According to the original Jewish source, the savior is simply coming to give salvation the Jews by making peace in their land. It was never a global savior!.
Your bible is a fraud according to the original Jewish concept of salvation. Do you want to know the history of your bible? The man below was a former overzealous Jehovah's Witnesses, but he was lucky as he realized the falsehood of Christianity. He is now helping others understand the historicity of Christianity. In the video below, he spent 6 hours explaining the history of your bible and the fraud that has accompanied Christianity over the centuries.
You're being very mischievous saying the catholic church is not the foundation of Christianity!.
The first time a church ever split from the catholic church was in 1054 AD in what they call the great schism, that was when the catholic church got split into two. That event was later to lead to further splits over the centuries. If you trace the origin of your church, your final landing church will be the catholic church.
Whether you're Anglican, Baptist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Methodist, Presbyterian, or whatever denomination, it all came as a result of further split of splits and more splits from the catholic church over the centuries. No matter what denomination you're, as long as you go to church, you're still a catholic. In fact, if you're not a catholic, you're not a christian!.
Please I never asked for biblical references for proof of Jesus as that would be a stupid thing to do. I asked for artifacts showing your Jesus was a real living person.
Your whole believe in Jesus is predicated on the promise your God made to the Jews. So, if you don't believe your Jesus was an illegitimate child as believed by the Jews, then you have no right to believe Jesus was promised to the Jews..... let alone being your savior. The Jews know their religion and has practiced it for thousands of years before Christianity, so it is arrogant of you to tell the Jews who the messiah should be. Be respectful and allow them tell you who's the messiah since it was promised to them, not you.
And no, the Jews never condemned your Jesus to death. Rome was the one killing ''messiahs'' who challenged their occupation of Judea and environs. Jews never killed their supporters. It is the doctored history served you by Christianity that would have you believe that the Jews killed your Jesus. Jews were being colonized at that time and were not in charge of administering justice. When Nigeria was British colony, Britain administered justice not Nigerians. So did all colonial powers everywhere.
The Jesus the Jews know and talked about in the Talmud was not born by a virgin, he did not walk on water, he did not feed 5,000 people with two loaves of bread, he did not resurrect from the dead.
Your Jesus is different from the Jewish Jesus. Your Jesus is a creation of the Roman catholic church.
What I will do here is show you Jewish thoughts about their Jesus Vs your Jesus.
In the book; the greatest deception ever sold; written by Edward L. Nydle & Levi bar Ido. They state as follows:-
''There is a great deception that has permeated the whole world by the man-made world religion called “Christianity”. This deception claims to be based upon history, Scripture, and the recorded teachings of our Master Yahshua, His disciples, and Rav Shaul. It is the myth of the anti-Torah and anti-Jewish life and teachings of a “Christ” whom they call by a Greek/Latin name- “Jesus”. They believe His purported contention with the Jewish people became a divine judgment upon a “faithless people” that rejected Him and His teachings and killed him because of his religion and opposition to the Torah of Moshe. The believing Christian is convinced that the Jewish Yahshua of history and the “Christ” of the church are one and the same. They could not be more deceived.''
''Between the time that Yahshua walked the earth and the time his teachings were written down (around the end of the first century C.E) and the third century Yahshua was made into the image of a “Christian”. This meant they molded him into an anti-Torah teacher who was far removed from the teachings of Judaism. He no longer was the Torah observant Jewish rabbi who lived and died as a Jew but a combination of all the pagan mystery religious figures combined into one god-man. The new “church” of Constantine created a false “Christ” called “Jesus” who came to do away with the Law of Moshe and replace the people of Yisrael with a new and better religion that offered salvation to anyone who would only believe in the person called “Jesus”. The audience for the message had changed: it was no longer intended for the Jews but focused upon the pagans- believers on the gods and goddesses like Mithras, Dionysius, Isis, and Demeter- and thus needed a new package flavored with anti-Jewish statements and replacement theology. The Torah of Moshe had been left behind along with the true history of the Jewish Messiah, Yahshua. The distance between reality and fiction created a gap that was now forever unbridgeable. The church has effectively buried the Yahshua of history and substituted their theological myths of the “Christ”, a fictional figure with a streak of anti-Semitism, wholly incompatible with the Messiah of the Jewish apostolic tradition. There would be no compromise between fact and fiction in what would become “Christian Orthodoxy”. This required a reinterpretation of historical facts and a triumphant victory of the artificial “Jesus” of the Roman church over the true Yahshua of history.''
'' The Christian historians and theologians have robbed Yahshua from Nazareth of his Jewishness and made him into a Christian after their own image. Not only Yahshua, but his family and disciples have been treated as Christians rather than Jews. There is not one verse in the Brit Chadasha that even hints that they were anything other than Orthodox, observant Jews in the most traditional sense of the word. They never called themselves Christians, nor were they ever called Christians. It was the Roman church that invented this deception and is truly the mother of all those who adhere to it. In order that their Replacement theology could be put into place and written into their commentaries, the Jewishness of Yahshua and the disciples had to be stripped from them. Every effort has been made to deny the Jewishness of the Brit Chadasha and its authors. It is very difficult for the average reader of the Brit Chadasha to separate the gold from the dross in the Gospels and the letters of Shaul.''
''Constantine's intention at Nicaea was to create an entirely new god for his empire who would unite all religious factions under one deity. Presbyters were asked to debate and decide who their new god would be. Delegates argued among themselves, expressing personal motives for inclusion of particular writings that promoted the finer traits of their own special deity. Throughout the meeting, howling factions were immersed in heated debates, and the names of 53 gods were tabled for discussion. Constantine was the ruling spirit at Nicaea and he ultimately decided upon a new god for them. To involve British factions, he ruled that the name of the great Druid god, Hesus, be joined with the Eastern Savior-god, Krishna (Krishna is Sanskrit for Christ), and thus Hesus Krishna would be the official name of the new Roman god. A vote was taken and it was with a majority show of hands (161 votes to 157) that both divinities became one God. Following longstanding heathen custom, Constantine used the official gathering and the Roman apotheosis decree to legally deify two deities as one, and did so by democratic consent. A new god was proclaimed and "officially" ratified by Constantine (Acta Concilii Nicaeni, 1618). That purely political act of deification effectively and legally placed Hesus and Krishna among the Roman gods as one individual composite. That abstraction lent Earthly existence to amalgamated doctrines for the Empire's new religion; and because there was no letter "J" in alphabets until around the ninth century, the name subsequently evolved into "Jesus Christ.''
As you can see, your Jesus is different from the Jewish Jesus. Again, your Jesus is a creation of the Roman catholic church.
Well done. The authors would have made their money from you and others that don't want to know the truth. May God have mercy on you so that you get converted knowing Jesus before you die
I initially posted this on a thread but i had to repost it again.
On this matter of once saved always saved I’ve known for a couple of years that eternal security is irrevocable. Why am i so sure? Because the Bible tells me so . All i needed to do to be saved was to believe and confess the Lordship of Christ and His resurrection.
“that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” ~Romans 10:9 NKJV
This salvation is a gift and not a reward. You work for a reward but a gift is not worked for , but received.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” ~Ephesians 2:8-9 NKJV
See? It is a gift and not of works so that people like you won’t boast in their works.
It also says the gift of salvation is a guarantee. This means it can not be lost or reversed.
“In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.” ~Ephesians 1:13-14 NKJV
So you’re sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise which is a guarantee of your inheritance in heaven. And yet in another place it is written:
“who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.” ~II Corinthians 1:22 NKJV
Jesus says this Spirit can’t be lost. It shall abide with you forever:
“And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—” ~John 14:16 NKJV
It says forever. Glory!
This thing is too good to be true, right? Yeah, that’s why we call it the gospel- good news.
I used to brand those preaching eternal security heretic until the Lord dealt with my heart. It can only be received by a heart that is established in grace. Naturally, people want to work so that they can glory in their works but Christ is calling us into His rest. The jews also wanted to work.
“Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”” ~John 6:28-29 NKJV
Many quote this verse:
“Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;” ~Philippians 2:12 NKJV
But they always ignore the next verse:
“for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.” ~Philippians 2:13 NKJV
So you’re not the one working it out but God through you.
The only way we can enter into His rest is to cease from our own works and believe.
I’ll encourage you to pray this:
“that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.” ~Ephesians 1:17-21 NKJV
[quote author=phenor post=76520413]Lies from the pit of hell. So you can have salvation and continue to steal, fornicate, tell lies, cheat and do yahoo yahoo, kill people and still make heaven?
I don’t know if the person that post this actually read the Bible at all.... ask God to open your eyes to the real truth in the word.
Work out your salvation with fear and trembling
Mr. Works, maybe you need to consider what Jesus says here:
“Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said to Him, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you.” ~Matthew 21:31 NKJV
Notice Jesus didn’t say ex-harlots and ex-publicans here. This is for the religious folks out there and those that erroneously believe their works will take them to heaven. Works in Christ Jesus will only earn you reward in heaven, it is not what saves you. You’re saved by faith in the finished work of Christ.
The idea of a Christian losing his salvation is one of the most debated topics in the body of Christ today.
This argument has left so many Christians ill-informed about salvation, fearful and worried over where they will end up after their departure from this earth.
Some not having a proper understanding of the subject have been caught up in the endless circle of answering altar calls over and over in order to retain or renew their salvation so they won’t end up losing it totally due to their wrong actions, words and thoughts.
To find out the possibility of a Christian losing his salvation, we need to first understand what salvation is and how it came about, else we will be drawing up conclusions that have no strong footing in the scriptures.
What is Salvation according to the Bible and how is one saved?
Salvation in the scriptures is gotten from the Greek word SOTERIA. In this context it has to do with man’s complete deliverance or rescue from sin and it’s penalty which is spiritual death and eternal separation from God’s presence.
It involves God coming through for man in order to bring him closer to himself in a loving relationship by imparting into him eternal life, which is the God-kind of life.
Having being rendered powerless and helpless by sin, man’s only way of avoiding the utter destruction that was coming ahead of him was going to be via a Saviour. Someone whom sin and death has no power over, someone whom God has raised by Himself for the whole world to be saved through Him.
“And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
“Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.” Acts 13:32-33 & 38-39.
ALL who BELIEVE in Him are JUSTIFIED from all things. Not by the works of the Law but by Faith. They are seen by God as if they had never sinned before when they believe in God’s grace to save them.
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9
So a man receives salvation by faith, not works else salvation is no longer a gift but a reward or wage. The scriptures we have seen clearly explains this.
When a man believes in the Saviour Jesus, he (the man) by faith receives the Life of God in his spirit and is said to be born again, that is, saved from sin and its eternal consequences.
He has received God’s biggest gift to man which is Salvation in His Son through faith. So can a Christian lose this God’s gift of Salvation for any reason after he has received it by faith and perish with those who never accepted the Gospel in the first place?
The bible answers this for us. Let’s see together the book of John Chapter 3, from verse 14.
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:14-16
Twice it is stated clearly in the above verses that whosoever believes in him SHALL NOT PERISH.
The “perish” there has to do with “complete destruction from the presence of God”, the fate of all those who did not believe and receive the gift of Salvation that God has given the world through His Son.
Jesus further explains this in chapter 10 of the same book of John, verse 27 to 29.
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: AND I GIVE UNTO THEM ETERNAL LIFE: and THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH, NEITHER SHALL ANY MAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and NO MAN IS ABLE TO PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY FATHER’S HAND” John 10:27-29 (Emphasis mine)
No man (including the believer himself) is able to pluck the one God has already saved out of his hand.
So in God’s hand, the man who has believed in Jesus for Salvation is safe, fully kept by God Himself unto the last day. Now will there be times when he act, say and think wrong thoughts? Yes, many times. But will these wrongs or sins cost him his salvation or separate him from God? The scriptures never said that.
In fact, Paul the apostle was so sure of the inseparable eternal union the believer has with God through Christ that he wrote.
“For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, NOR THINGS PRESENT, NOR THINGS TO COME, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 8:38-39 (Emphasis mine)
The reason he was this sure that not even things present and that which is to come (sins) would be able to separate the believer from the love of God is simply because God is not counting the sins of the believer against him. Salvation took care of that.
“To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.” 2 Corinthians 5:19
God does not impute or count ours sins against us anymore. As a matter of fact, He keeps the believer secured in His love and will present him before the world “faultless” on the last day, as though he had never sinned in his entire life.
“Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy. To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.” Jude 1:24-25
God is able to keep you from falling as a believer, you don’t have to be restless with the thought of keeping your salvation or losing it. As a matter of fact, you are not the one “keeping” your salvation, Salvation is what is keeping. And He will keep you till the end.
So can a Christian lose his Salvation? It is as impossible as it is for God to lie!
He saves and keeps us saved, forever! Glory to His name!
Encourage someone today by sharing this beautiful truth with him or her.
FeedMeJesus is a christocentric website that is committed to feeding this spiritually malnourished world with the Word of God's Grace and Love which is able to build anyone up spiritually. For more spiritually edifying articles that will help your Christian walk, feel free to check out the site.
Unfortunately, the answer given here is True By Half! I mean it's not Complete. This is a common method of Leading people astray.
I'll quote Paul, one of the greatest apostles of Jesus: 27 I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be Disqualified. 1 Corinthians 9:27
Remember what Jesus said:
Luke 9:62 KJV And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough (converted), and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
Luke 13:24 KJV Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall NOT be able.
John 15:6 KJV If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the FIRE, and they are Burned.
The Bible warns not to be many teachers, because they will be judged with stricter judgement. We must take heed.
“For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, NOR THINGS PRESENT, NOR THINGS TO COME, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 8:38-39 (Emphasis mine)
The reason he was this sure that not even things present and that which is to come (sins) would be able to separate the believer from the love of God is simply because God is not counting the sins of the believer against him. Salvation took care of that.
I AM PARTICULARLY FRIGHTENED BY THE INTERPRETATION (IN RED) THE OP AVE TO THE ROM 8:38-39. IT IS SAYING THAT A BELIEVER SHOULD CONTINUE TO SIN BECAUSE HE HAS GAINED SALVATION (BY ACCEPTING CHRIST) AND GOD IS NOT COUNTING THEIR SINS AGAINST THEM. SO IF ARE A FORNICATOR. JUST GO AND ACCEPT CHRIST (GAIN SALVATION) AND ERANED THE TAG "BELIEVER" THEN GO BACK TO YOUR FORNICATION. GOD WILL ONLY SMILE AT YOU REMBERING THAT YOU HAVE EARNED SALVATION. WHAT A WAY TO LEAD EOPLE TO HELL.
I'll quote Paul, one of the greatest apostles of Jesus: 27 I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be Disqualified. 1 Corinthians 9:27
The greatest problem in Bible interpretation and understanding of the Bible is contextual reading. To fully understand a particular verse or scripture, one must read the pre-text and post-text before bringing the scripture into context. Many are so lazy to do this that lift a verse from the Bible without considering the surrounding text.
Consider the following verse as an illustration:
“Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John” ~John 4:1 NKJV
When you read this verse alone, you’ll come to the conclusion that Jesus baptized some disciples. The narrative changes when you read the post-text which is the next verse:
“(though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),” ~John 4:2 NKJV
See? Reading verse 1 in isolation suggests Jesus baptized some disciples. But when we read the two verses together, we arrive at a better understanding of the situation. This is the reason why the body of Christ has not come to the unity of faith which Apostle Paul wrote about.
In like manner, we misunderstand Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:27 because we read this verse out of context. For one to have a better understanding of what he’s trying to relate, one must start reading from verse 24. Also, what does castaway mean in this context?
The Greek word is “adokomos”.
It means to be disqualified. Disqualified from what you may ask? It is to be disqualified or rendered ineffective for ministry. It is not disqualification from salvation. You can not be disqualified from something you received by grace. Nobody deserves to be saved. It is the gift of God.
“Don’t you realize that in a race everyone runs, but only one person gets the prize? So run to win! All athletes are disciplined in their training. They do it to win a prize that will fade away, but we do it for an eternal prize. So I run with purpose in every step. I am not just shadowboxing. I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be disqualified.” ~1 Corinthians 9:24-27 NLT
How do we know he’s talking about ministry? The answer is in verse 24. He’s not talking about making heaven, Paul is talking about being rewarded for the work we’ve done on earth. He compares the work of the ministry to a race. He’s saying a christian that fails to put his body under will not be effective in his ministry. How does he put his body under? By praying, studying and meditation, fellowship with the brethren, and walking in love. This is the discipline of the body which enables the Christian to do exploits for God, and go on to earn a prize which is his reward in heaven. This is not about losing salvation at all.
solreb: This is a doctrine of "once saved, you are forever saved" And this is a fallacy that will lead many to hell. Yes, we gain salvation by faith through believing in Christ. This implies that we have been justified righteous irrespective of our previous sin. If we die immediately after accepting Christ and commits no sin we will make heaven and not perish. However, a believer that has just been saved still lives in the world and all previous sinful habits will not just disappear. Hence you need to avoid exposure to those things that will cause you to since plus meditate on the word of God (which according to John 17:17 will sanctify you. Next stage after salvation is sanctification where the word of God through the Holy Spirit will help you to start getting rid of all the buts in your life.
If you cannot lose salvation, Paul will not warn in Phil 2:12 "work out your salvation with fear and trembling". He will also not warn in Rom 6:1 that shall we continue in sin so that grace will continue? Jesus stated it clearly in Matt 7:21-23. Only those who do the will of the Father will enter kingdom of heaven. It is not those that got the tag "believer" and have earned salvation but the fruits of the Spirit are not evident in them.
We all know the story of Ananias and Sapphira in Act 5. They were believers. They lied and died prematurely. Where will they end. HEAVEN or HELL? 2 Pet 2:18-21 warmed about Deceptions of False Teachers like in this case, In fact Peter warned in verse 20 that their end will be worse off since they had knowledge of the LORD and Saviour Christ Christ (i.e having gained salvation) but now backslide, their end will be worse than their beginning.
SO, NO ONE SHOULD DECEIVE YOU THAT IT IS ELDORADO ONCE YOU HAVE GAINED SALVATION. YOU CAN LOSE IT. if you leave carelessly and ignore the nudging of the Holy Spirit. So, be warned
According to the bible a Christian does continue to live in sin, so how can he lose his salvation by sinning?
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
So a man that is born again cannot lose his salvation by sinning why because he is born of God.
Work out your salvation is not work for your salvation. Work out your salvation is not about making heaven but rather bringing out the fruit of your salvation so as to glorify God.
Okay friend, let's close all up there. I take that has your opinion as much as I strongly disagree with you, cos it's very very clear in scripture, and of which I gave very few verses about it.
Thanks... Good bye.
**********************************"""""
Nevertheless, for anyone that still cares, please check my previous post and see few verses below as well (please take not of this signs " " and words in capital letters):
Luke 8:13 KJV They on the rock are they , which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, "which for a while believe", and in time of temptation "fall away".
Romans 8:13 KJV For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
1 Peter 4:18 KJV And if the righteous "scarcely" be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Matthew 24:13 KJV But he that shall "endure unto the end", the same shall be saved.
Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV For IF we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [27] But a certain fearful looking for of JUDGEMENT t and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hebrews 6:6 KJV If they shall FALL AWAY, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
1 Corinthians 9:27 KJV But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
If we continue in obedience to Jesus' words we remain, otherwise we would get CUT OFF and burned!
John 15:6 KJV If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the FIRE, and they are BURNED.
Please, read your bibles and ask the Holy spirit, you don't necessarily need men. Jesus Sets Free Not Men.
When you give your life to God you have gained salvation. When you backslide and refuse to repent you have Lost your salvation unless you ask for forgiveness.
Dont forget what Jesus said, on the last day someone people will say i have cast out demon in your name i have performed miracle and Jesus will say to them i know thee not.
Yeah, lover of money! If he were to be alive he would be one of the foremost Prosperity preachers in the world with all form of cunningness to entangled ignorant folks into his doctrines of mammon! Whom we have plenty of his examples presently in the world and a higher number of them in Nigeria! So pathetic
Faithful4real: When you give your life to God you have gained salvation. When you backslide and refuse to repent you have Lost your salvation unless you ask for forgiveness.
Dont forget what Jesus said, on the last day someone people will say i have cast out demon in your name i have performed miracle and Jesus will say to them i know thee not.
JJOF: So what happens when a believer stops believing?
Once you enter into the Kingdom of God - John 3 vs 1 - 21- either through the Broad gate which leads to destruction or through the narrow door that leads to true life, there is no exit! - Matthew 7 vs 13- 14
And since there is no also way for you to return the gift of eternity life(grace) which you received in place of the condemnation of sin(Death) when you got saved- Jesus Christ came to save but not to condemn- I am afraid you are eternally stuck.
malvisguy212: yes. Mark 4:16 (Luke 8:13), "And in a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately RECEIVED IT WITH JOY ; ( THEY BELIEVE FOR A WHILE ) and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they FALL AWAY"
Hebrews 6:4-6, "For in the case of THOSE WHO HAVE ONCE BEEN ENLIGHTENED AND HAVE TESTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT AND HAVE BEEN MADE PARTAKES OF THE HOLY SPIRIT,and have tasted the good Word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have FALLEN AWAY, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame."
There are, I am afraid, no exit doors as far as the Kingdom of God is concerned.
Once you make it in, either through the Broad gate that leads to eternal destruction or the narrow gate that leads to true life, there is no exit - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14. So, anyone who is saved and has made it in is eternal bound by the Law of the Kingdom - Jesus Christ came to save and not condemn(no reversing of the process of Salvation).
Those who refuse to obey have Hell to deal with at the end and the few who obey have Heaven to look forward to.
