There is no way you are going to convince anyone that the Catholic church is a continuation of the apostolic church. Not with all the absurd and strange practices of the Catholic church of today. Nope.
There is no correlation between the Catholic church practice and the early church as evidenced by Acts of the Apostles (Spirit)


The Catholic church has tried to change the narrative to look good. Inquisition was against original Christian who insisted on the pure gospel and the ownership of the Bible .Luther was a priest who wanted the entire Bible out for all as envisaged by the original apostles.. The Catholic church wanted to remove the holy spirit from the church hence they wrote prayers which the early church never did as people were expected to pray as led by the spirit . Til date the Catholic church still discouraged the ownership of the entire Bible through the sale of bulletin.


The Catholic church even went as far stating when to kneel and when to stand in prayer thereby making it a religious affairs directed by man not the spirit .. kneeling, standing , crying , laying are all supposed to come from within one ... No no no. The Catholic church has no semblance to the original Apostles and their teachings for they never told the people to pray to Mary or any angels or so called saints ...they never did

Why is the Peter work in Rome as bishop not in the scripture?

9inches:


It's either your recollection, again, is faulty or your history itself is made up. The highlighted is not true. The Catholic Church is a continuation of the early Christian community established by the apostles. Emperor Constantine I legalized status of the Christians churches thereby lessened their persecution. Decades later under Emperor Theodosius I, the Catholic Church became a state religion and the church devised several means to fight heresies which (I think) included banning of ownership of the bible amongst ordinary people. It's quite obvious the 33,000+ christian denominations we have today is as a result of ordinary people interpreting the bible the way they want. Hence, heresies everywhere like sola scriptura, etc.

Linus was the second Bishop of Rome after Peter. Anancletus succeeded Linus, Clement I succeeded Clement, Evaristus succeeded Clement I, and so forth.

Very dumb contribution. The churches in the scripture that Paul mentored were not Roman Catholic church and they were everywhere in Asia .. they operated in the holy ghost and power like the apostles .. they had no image of Mary to bow to or pray to. You guys can only confuse those who have never opened the scripture. One lunatic claims the Bible was written by the Catholic church. I am waiting for him to reply me since I already poured light from the same scripture on him

9inches:
The catholic church created pentecostals. All protestants are byproducts of the Catholic Church. Do you know that?

All generation shall call her blessed. If you know the English meaning of the clause you won't be hyperventilating your ignorance on nairaland. ... Let me help you subsidized your ignorance as much as I can ....... If I look at you and then say , you are really blessed , I am only highlighting God's glory upon your life

It would amount to madness if because the Bible's says we should or shall call her blessed or favoured , that I am now to raise an altar and pray to her. Kneel before her, ask her to do what is exactly the duty of Jesus Christ particularly when she is not even omnipresent. Mary joined other to receive the holy ghost on Pentecost day. She is not everywhere to answer your prayers. It is demons that attends to your prayers because of the worship that they crave and you ignoramuses do give away.

Crave for Worship got Satan in trouble in heaven ... It is the only act he demanded from Jesus Christ on the mount and any demons that sees free worship will claim it.

Most contributors here are not pastor say this and that Christians , they have personal walk with the Holy Spirit. They read their Bible and the spirit expound things to them

okwusdidi:
Ex 25 18-20This is a quote from the same Bible these critics of Mary mother of Jesus keep referring to as their proof for their criticsn against Mary mother of Jesus. As if Jesus just jumped down from heaven to come and save us. The same Bible in Lk 1 48 says all generations shalll call her blessed. I wonder weather they read their bibles upside down. The truth of the matter is that as far she is the mother of Jesus,,she is also my mother. I wonder weather they hate their own mothers. Read their bibles they won't. All you hear from them is my pastor said this my pastor said that.

Nodogragra4me:
Very dumb contribution. The churches in the scripture that Paul mentored were not Roman Catholic church and they were everywhere in Asia .. they operated in the holy ghost and power like the apostles .. they had no image of Mary to bow to or pray to. You guys can only confuse those who have never opened the scripture. One lunatic claims the Bible was written by the Catholic church. I am waiting for him to reply me since I already poured light from the same scripture on him

So what are the names of the churches Paul mentored? What is the name of the church of Christ's apostles?

Nodogragra4me:
All generation shall call her blessed. If you know the English meaning of the clause you won't be hyperventilating your ignorance on nairaland. ... Let me help you subsidized your ignorance as much as I can ....... If I look at you and then say , you are really blessed , I am only highlighting God's glory upon your life

It would amount to madness if because the Bible's says we should or shall call her blessed or favoured , that I am now to raise an altar and pray to her. Kneel before her, ask her to do what is exactly the duty of Jesus Christ particularly when she is not even omnipresent. Mary joined other to receive the holy ghost on Pentecost day. She is not everywhere to answer your prayers. It is demons that attends to your prayers because of the worship that they crave and you ignoramuses do give away.

Crave for Worship got Satan in trouble in heaven ... It is the only act he demanded from Jesus Christ on the mount and any demons that sees free worship will claim it.

Most contributors here are not pastor say this and that Christians , they have personal walk with the Holy Spirit. They read their Bible and the spirit expound things to them

The utter ignorance you are spewing here while claiming you are a Christian is the reason the Early Church did not allow every tom, dikc and harry to read the bible. I'm guessing you went to school... why didn't you abandon school since you're so smart you could study textbooks and register for O'level exams? And don't even attempt to blame your heresies on the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit does not sow confusion neither does it divide. All 33,000+ denominations claim the Holy Spirit inspired their teachings. Story!

You mentioned Apostle Paul. What did he preach to the churches with? Bible? "Christians" like you think the bible comes before the Church. You think carrying the bible around means you understand what's in it.

And for your information, only One Church was established by Jesus Christ and I will wait for you to give me the name of that church.

9inches:
History according to who?

Ignorance is bliss.

9inches:

And for your information, only One Church was established by Jesus Christ and I will wait for you to give me the name of that church.

Church of CHRIST.

If you think Jesus recognises denomination, you have yourself a puzzle to solve. Superiority complex is deceitful. Of course you won't agree.

The early church never refused the saints having the scripture. At the risk of repeating my myself on the same thread, I will state that the entire old testament was well known to the Jews .Joshua 1:8 called it the book of the law ... The apostles , particularly Paul wrote open letters which makes up the most of the new testament. They weren't coded letters but open letters to resolve issues and give direction. All those letters later became reference materials for all Christian everywhere ... Your church didn't write them, Paul did

So called saints and angels veneration started almost 400 years AD. The apsotles didn't introduced it. Council of Ephesus introduced Mary as the mother of God in 431. Priest ebgan dressing differently from other in 500Ad. The title of pope was given by an emperor not Peter and this was 600 years after Christ reign. Worship of the cross, images and relics was authorized by order of Dowager Empress Irene of Constantinople not Peter . Purgatory alien to the scripture was introduced in 1439
The Catholic creed was actually a personal creed of one of it popes, Pius iv in 1560 it became officially the church creed. ... Assumption of Mary was very recent, 1950.

All these satanic doctrines was what the early church opposed because they could not find any scriptural support for such practices. It was this struggle that led to the inquisition and the total banning of the ownership of the Bible .. the people never misinterpreted the scripture as they had the holy spirit working in them .. it was the Catholic church working with magician of the cities desperate to keep their place in the society of the most developed nations of the time that led to the inquisition And that was the reason The Council of Trent held in the year 1545, that Tradition which you most of you quote Thessaloniki to defend is of equal authority with the Bible




It was actually the Catholic church and the many pope's that introduced heresy and expected the people of God to accept them.

9inches:

The utter ignorance you are spewing here while claiming you are a Christian is the reason the Early Church did not allow every tom, dikc and harry to read the bible. I'm guessing you went to school... why didn't you abandon school since you're so smart you could study textbooks and register for O'level exams? And don't even attempt to blame your heresies on the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit does not sow confusion neither does it divide. All 33,000+ denominations claim the Holy Spirit inspired their teachings. Story!

You mentioned Apostle Paul. What did he preach to the churches with? Bible? "Christians" like you think the bible comes before the Church. You think carrying the bible around means you understand what's in it.

And for your information, only One Church was established by Jesus Christ and I will wait for you to give me the name of that church.

DeOTR:

Ignorance is bliss.

That's right.

tranxo:


Church of CHRIST.

If you think Jesus recognises denomination, you have yourself a puzzle to solve. Superiority complex is deceitful. Of course you won't agree.

Church of Christ! Lolololol

Nnaa, biko tell us where you got that info from, no vex.

Mention just one of the heresies of the original saints that led to the inquisition? Was it the original saints that lies that there is a purgatory somewhere where souls were warehouse temporarily for proper cleansing before moving into heaven; s scheme thatfetched the Catholic church the stupendous wealth she amassed around the world when they told their gullible ones that they could pay to get their loved ones out of purgatory in record time into heaven? Was it not the Catholic church that used purgatory to get men and women to rat on genuine Christians amongst them and even go to wars on behalf on the church against some states that didn't buy into their doctrine

9inches:

The utter ignorance you are spewing here while claiming you are a Christian is the reason the Early Church did not allow every tom, dikc and harry to read the bible. I'm guessing you went to school... why didn't you abandon school since you're so smart you could study textbooks and register for O'level exams? And don't even attempt to blame your heresies on the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit does not sow confusion neither does it divide. All 33,000+ denominations claim the Holy Spirit inspired their teachings. Story!

You mentioned Apostle Paul. What did he preach to the churches with? Bible? "Christians" like you think the bible comes before the Church. You think carrying the bible around means you understand what's in it.

And for your information, only One Church was established by Jesus Christ and I will wait for you to give me the name of that church.

Nodogragra4me:
The early church never refused the saints having the scripture. At the risk of repeating my myself on the same thread, I will state that the entire old testament was well known to the Jews .Joshua 1:8 called it the book of the law ...

How were ordinary christians able to get the bible if you claim they did read it? Are you falsely claiming the Torah was available for every Jew to read in the old testament times?

The apostles , particularly Paul wrote open letters which makes up the most of the new testament. They weren't coded letters but open letters to resolve issues and give direction. All those letters later became reference materials for all Christian everywhere ... Your church didn't write them, Paul did

So I guess after writing the letters he made multiple copies of it so that each person was able to read at home... right? When Paul and other apostles were going around from place to place preaching the gospel, WHICH BIBLE WERE THEY USING?

So called saints and angels veneration started almost 400 years AD. The apsotles didn't introduced it. Council of Ephesus introduced Mary as the mother of God in 431. Priest ebgan dressing differently from other in 500Ad. The title of pope was given by an emperor not Peter and this was 600 years after Christ reign. Worship of the cross, images and relics was authorized by order of Dowager Empress Irene of Constantinople not Peter . Purgatory alien to the scripture was introduced in 1439
The Catholic creed was actually a personal creed of one of it popes, Pius iv in 1560 it became officially the church creed. ... Assumption of Mary was very recent, 1950.

What is veneration, can you define it?

Wait! So you don't know Mary is the mother of God? Wow.

By the way, where's trinity in your bible? Sounds like man-made.

All these satanic doctrines was what the early church opposed because they could not find any scriptural support for such practices. It was this struggle that led to the inquisition and the total banning of the ownership of the Bible .. the people never misinterpreted the scripture as they had the holy spirit working in them .. it was the Catholic church working with magician of the cities desperate to keep their place in the society of the most developed nations of the time that led to the inquisition And that was the reason The Council of Trent held in the year 1545, that Tradition which you most of you quote Thessaloniki to defend is of equal authority with the Bible

I'm sure the concept of the trinity was one of those satanic doctrines formulated by the Church?

You simply are following a redacted version of Christianity started by an fallen catholic, Martin Luther.

It was actually the Catholic church and the many pope's that introduced heresy and expected the people of God to accept them.

It was actually the catholic church that helped select, compile and preserve the scriptures you claim to know today.

Nodogragra4me:
Mention just one of the heresies of the original saints that led to the inquisition? Was it the original saints that lies that there is a purgatory somewhere where souls were warehouse temporarily for proper cleansing before moving into heaven; s scheme thatfetched the Catholic church the stupendous wealth she amassed around the world when they told their gullible ones that they could pay to get their loved ones out of purgatory in record time into heaven? Was it not the Catholic church that used purgatory to get men and women to rat on genuine Christians amongst them and even go to wars on behalf on the church against some states that didn't buy into their doctrine

You can Google the inquisition and read a lot about it. My point is that Martin Luther was excommunicated because of his heresies. He is responsible for the 33,000+ denominations of confused christians, all claiming they were inspired by the Holy Spirit.

I will only reply you with relevant passages from the scripture and then you can meet the person who made those statement to educate you whether it was Bible or Torah that he had

1. 42 Jesus saith unto them, [18] Did ye never read in the scriptures,....NOT ONE BUT MANY SCRIPTURE...ASK JESUS WHY HE WOULD ASK SO THE PEOPLE IF THEY DIDNT READ FROM THE SCRIPTURES.......... THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THE SAME IS BECOME THE HEAD OF THE CORNER: THIS IS THE LORD'S DOING, AND IT IS [17] MARVELLOUS IN OUR EYES? (AV, Matthew 21:42)


2. 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, [19] not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. (AV, Matthew 22:29).... Ask Jesus again

3. 54 But how then shall [18] the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be? (AV, Matthew 26:54)...... Ask same Jesus

4. 27 And beginning at [20] Moses and [21] [19] all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (AV, Luke 24:27)

5. 32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures? (AV, Luke 24:32).... The scripture that your pope lied to you that he produced was opened by Jesus Christ

6. 38 [7]He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, [6] out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (AV, John 7:38).... As the scripture hath said .. scripture already available said not the one written by your pope

7. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, [12] ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called [13] the Friend of God. (AV, James 2:23)... Scripture already known was fulfilled

8. 16 [13]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (AV, 2 Timothy 3:16)

9. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, [10] In thee shall all nations be blessed. (AV, Galatians 3:

10. 42 [13]Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, [12] where David was? (AV, John 7:42).... Hath not the scripture said ... If it was available it would not have said

That is ten passages from the Bible on the scripture.

Bonus: 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and [10] searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (AV, Acts 17:11).... These are bearems living in the north of today's Greece checking the scripture to compare the message being preached against the written word something that the Catholic church is strongly against

How does your Mary, tansi and the others answer the request of all your members without them being omnipresent?

9inches:

How were ordinary christians able to get the bible if you claim they did read it? Are you falsely claiming the Torah was available for every Jew to read in the old testament times?

So I guess after writing the letters he made multiple copies of it so that each person was able to read at home... right? When Paul and other apostles were going around from place to place preaching the gospel, WHICH BIBLE WERE THEY USING?

What is veneration, can you define it?

Wait! So you don't know Mary is the mother of God? Wow.

By the way, where's trinity in your bible? Sounds like man-made.

I'm sure the concept of the trinity was one of those satanic doctrines formulated by the Church?

You simply are following a redacted version of Christianity started by an fallen catholic, Martin Luther.

It was actually the catholic church that helped select, compile and preserve the scriptures you claim to know today.

Everyone conversant with the scripture knows the birth story of Jesus Christ. What your church did was to elevate Mary to a place she never envisaged, never asked for and never would have accepted . ..the place of alternate Jesus. And since she can't be whatever you people wants her to be , a demons has been roving round your church with an infant Jesus that never addresses you people . He always leaves the instructions to the demon to deliver to you guys


The one time he spoke, he said, listen to her ..... And what was the message, your Mary promised to be with each and every one of you people at the point of death, a classical heresy unknown to the scripture that Mary and not Jesus and not the holy spirit that Jesus promised each saint would be your company through life

9inches:

How were ordinary christians able to get the bible if you claim they did read it? Are you falsely claiming the Torah was available for every Jew to read in the old testament times?

So I guess after writing the letters he made multiple copies of it so that each person was able to read at home... right? When Paul and other apostles were going around from place to place preaching the gospel, WHICH BIBLE WERE THEY USING?

What is veneration, can you define it?

Wait! So you don't know Mary is the mother of God? Wow.

By the way, where's trinity in your bible? Sounds like man-made.

I'm sure the concept of the trinity was one of those satanic doctrines formulated by the Church?

You simply are following a redacted version of Christianity started by an fallen catholic, Martin Luther.

It was actually the catholic church that helped select, compile and preserve the scriptures you claim to know today.

I am yet to send you to google for anything. I am quoting the scripture against your church record, do same . Mention just one of the heresies of the early Christians that your church teamed up with state emperors to persecute ..... just mention one thing they did that wasn’t scriptural
So that your record can be kept here on nairaland for record purposes

9inches:
You can Google the inquisition and read a lot about it. My point is that Martin Luther was excommunicated because of his heresies. He is responsible for the 33,000+ denominations of confused christians, all claiming they were inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Nodogragra4me:
I will only reply you with relevant passages from the scripture and then you can meet the person who made those statement to educate you whether it was Bible or Torah that he had

1. 42 Jesus saith unto them, [18] Did ye never read in the scriptures,....NOT ONE BUT MANY SCRIPTURE...ASK JESUS WHY HE WOULD ASK SO THE PEOPLE IF THEY DIDNT READ FROM THE SCRIPTURES.......... THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THE SAME IS BECOME THE HEAD OF THE CORNER: THIS IS THE LORD'S DOING, AND IT IS [17] MARVELLOUS IN OUR EYES? (AV, Matthew 21:42)


2. 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, [19] not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. (AV, Matthew 22:29).... Ask Jesus again

3. 54 But how then shall [18] the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be? (AV, Matthew 26:54)...... Ask same Jesus

4. 27 And beginning at [20] Moses and [21] [19] all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (AV, Luke 24:27)

5. 32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures? (AV, Luke 24:32).... The scripture that your pope lied to you that he produced was opened by Jesus Christ

6. 38 [7]He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, [6] out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (AV, John 7:38).... As the scripture hath said .. scripture already available said not the one written by your pope

7. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, [12] ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called [13] the Friend of God. (AV, James 2:23)... Scripture already known was fulfilled

8. 16 [13]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (AV, 2 Timothy 3:16)

9. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, [10] In thee shall all nations be blessed. (AV, Galatians 3:

10. 42 [13]Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, [12] where David was? (AV, John 7:42).... Hath not the scripture said ... If it was available it would not have said

That is ten passages from the Bible on the scripture.

Bonus: 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and [10] searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (AV, Acts 17:11).... These are bearems living in the north of today's Greece checking the scripture to compare the message being preached against the written word something that the Catholic church is strongly against

How does your Mary, tansi and the others answer the request of all your members without them being omnipresent?

I wish you could address the points/questions I raised point by point so I could know exactly what you are addressing.

Nodogragra4me:
Everyone conversant with the scripture knows the birth story of Jesus Christ. What your church did was to elevate Mary to a place she never envisaged, never asked for and never would have accepted . ..the place of alternate Jesus. And since she can't be whatever you people wants her to be , a demons has been roving round your church with an infant Jesus that never addresses you people . He always leaves the instructions to the demon to deliver to you guys


The one time he spoke, he said, listen to her ..... And what was the message, your Mary promised to be with each and every one of you people at the point of death, a classical heresy unknown to the scripture that Mary and not Jesus and not the holy spirit that Jesus promised each saint would be your company through life

What is the teaching of the Catholic Church about Mary? Are you referring to a Catholic teaching or just what you think the Church teaches?

Your church prays to a supposed Mary, a woman without capacity to be everywhere at the same to attend to every single one of you. How does she answer your request?
Mary is the go to Jesus of your church ... she has more airtime within your church prayer time than Jesus , the Holy Spirit and the almighty God. She is the alternate and trusted Jesus operating within your church

9inches:
What is the teaching of the Catholic Church about Mary? Are you referring to a Catholic teaching or just what you think the Church teaches?

It is to her patronage that you people flies to. It is her that is hailed ..hail holy queen ... It is her alone that has a litany that takes a minimum 10 minutes to recite ..where her image is in your church compound , you never have that of a mature and standing Jesus .. it is either that of a small boy or a dying man on her lap ...never a strong man

Check your church calandar , it has more activities for Mary than Jesus Christ. Go and check it


Your church is the church of Mary ..the only group or society within your church that has pray a it core when they meet everyday is block rosary and the pray is to Mary not Jesus .. Jesus is an attachment sprinkled here and there but the core is Mary. Every other group is about meeting and what to do except the charismatic group that is not even acceptable in some parishes

I am not wearied because I want you to think in your private time all I have written and tell yourself the truth against what is actually the position of the scripture on all you have been trying to defend

Your first question was how ordinary Christians were able to get the bible to read and I replied by stating eleven scriptures supporting the fact that the scriptures were available to the ordinary people from the Breans in Greece down to the Jews of Jerusalem. I based my evidence on what was written right inside the same bible ... Here is your question:


How were ordinary christians able to get the bible if you claim they did read it? Are you falsely claiming the Torah was available for every Jew to read in the old testament times?

So I guess after writing the letters he made multiple copies of it so that each person was able to read at home... right? When Paul and other apostles were going around from place to place preaching the gospel, WHICH BIBLE WERE THEY USING?


I am never going to be wearied by your antics ... I know for sure that you are one and the same Ubenedictus.

Here: All of the Scriptures were even available to the faraway Bereans north of Greece, who, as we have seen, "searched the Scriptures daily" (Acts 17:11). The same evidence is found in the fact that Timothy knew the Old Testament from early childhood (2 Timothy 3:15) and that it was taught to him not by the rabbis in the synagogue but at home by his mother and grandmother, who themselves were women of faith (2 Timothy 1:5).

To teach it at home they would have to have a copy of what they were teaching

9inches:
I wish you could address the points/questions I raised point by point so I could know exactly what you are addressing.

Nodogragra4me:
Your church prays to a supposed Mary, a woman without capacity to be everywhere at the same to attend to every single one of you. How does she answer your request?
Mary is the go to Jesus of your church ... she has more airtime within your church prayer time than Jesus , the Holy Spirit and the almighty God. She is the alternate and trusted Jesus operating within your church

It is to her patronage that you people flies to. It is her that is hailed ..hail holy queen ... It is her alone that has a litany that takes a minimum 10 minutes to recite ..where her image is in your church compound , you never have that of a mature and standing Jesus .. it is either that of a small boy or a dying man on her lap ...never a strong man

Check your church calandar , it has more activities for Mary than Jesus Christ. Go and check it

Your church is the church of Mary ..the only group or society within your church that has pray a it core when they meet everyday is block rosary and the pray is to Mary not Jesus .. Jesus is an attachment sprinkled here and there but the core is Mary. Every other group is about meeting and what to do except the charismatic group that is not even acceptable in some parishes

I am not wearied because I want you to think in your private time all I have written and tell yourself the truth against what is actually the position of the scripture on all you have been trying to defend

I'm not sure I should be arguing Scripture with someone who doesn't understand it.

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, John sees that “the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints” (Rev. 5:8 ). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

Angels do the same thing: “[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God” (Rev. 8:3–4).

Jesus himself warned us not to offend small children, because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: “See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 18:10).

Because he is the only God-man and the Mediator of the New Covenant, Jesus is the only mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1–4). In particular, we should ask the intercession of those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for “[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects” (Jas. 5:16).

What's the name of the church you said Jesus established and in which country? Please remind me.

Nodogragra4me:
Your first question was how ordinary Christians were able to get the bible to read and I replied by stating eleven scriptures supporting the fact that the scriptures were available to the ordinary people from the Breans in Greece down to the Jews of Jerusalem. I based my evidence on what was written right inside the same bible ... Here is your question:


How were ordinary christians able to get the bible if you claim they did read it? Are you falsely claiming the Torah was available for every Jew to read in the old testament times?

So I guess after writing the letters he made multiple copies of it so that each person was able to read at home... right? When Paul and other apostles were going around from place to place preaching the gospel, WHICH BIBLE WERE THEY USING?


I am never going to be wearied by your antics ... I know for sure that you are one and the same Ubenedictus.

Here: All of the Scriptures were even available to the faraway Bereans north of Greece, who, as we have seen, "searched the Scriptures daily" (Acts 17:11). The same evidence is found in the fact that Timothy knew the Old Testament from early childhood (2 Timothy 3:15) and that it was taught to him not by the rabbis in the synagogue but at home by his mother and grandmother, who themselves were women of faith (2 Timothy 1:5).

To teach it at home they would have to have a copy of what they were teaching

Bible means both Old and New Testament, Mr. Man. Which bible, especially the again.

Did the Galatians read letter sent to the Corinthians? Did the Philippians read letter sent to the Romans, and so on..? What gospel did Stephen read while he was preaching?

Good luck.

Nodogragra4me:
Your first question was how ordinary Christians were able to get the bible to read and I replied by stating eleven scriptures supporting the fact that the scriptures were available to the ordinary people from the Breans in Greece down to the Jews of Jerusalem. I based my evidence on what was written right inside the same bible ... Here is your question:


How were ordinary christians able to get the bible if you claim they did read it? Are you falsely claiming the Torah was available for every Jew to read in the old testament times?

So I guess after writing the letters he made multiple copies of it so that each person was able to read at home... right? When Paul and other apostles were going around from place to place preaching the gospel, WHICH BIBLE WERE THEY USING?


I am never going to be wearied by your antics ... I know for sure that you are one and the same Ubenedictus.

Here: All of the Scriptures were even available to the faraway Bereans north of Greece, who, as we have seen, "searched the Scriptures daily" (Acts 17:11). The same evidence is found in the fact that Timothy knew the Old Testament from early childhood (2 Timothy 3:15) and that it was taught to him not by the rabbis in the synagogue but at home by his mother and grandmother, who themselves were women of faith (2 Timothy 1:5).

To teach it at home they would have to have a copy of what they were teaching

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxDumU0TSrY

Re read all the scriptures you cited but very slowly.

The first book you cited says it was full of the prayers of the SAINTS... living people ... THEIR prayers... NOT THE ONE DONE BY A DEMON MARY on a world TOUR of your CHURHC BUT THE ACTUAL PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS ... LIVING CHRISTISNS ... HERE ON EARTH ... It IS THE PRAYERS of THE PEOPLE On THE EARTH


The second verse you cited says the angel was GIVEN... IT IS THE PROTOCOL THAT HE WAS OBSERVING.... IT IS NOT HIS CHOICE ... HE WAS GIVEN .... THEY ARE telling you now prayers are mixed for result ... He was GIVEN to mix with THE PRAYERS OF LIVING PEOPLE CALLED THE SAINTS ...NOT DEAD VAGABONDS acting on a pope instructions hoping to avoid purgatory. The PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS ...MOT THE PRAYES OF THE ANGELS BUT THE SAINTS PRAYED already to Jesus ... Compiled prayer being prepared for answers .... The prayer of a righteous man availeth much... Righteousness is actually believing or having faith... Abraham believed God and it was counted for him for righteousness..... Righteousness is accepting that nothing in you but just believing Jesus Christ and accepting the righteousness he freely offers you that makes you righteous .. you can't earn your righteousness otherwise Jesus would have not died for you


Your third verse: you can never know the mind of God with the intellect. It is the work of the holy spirit . Angels are ministering spirits not intercessory spirits. They minster results..,answers ... Remeber the angels and Daniel and the Persian prince .... The spiritual need of every child is met, supernaturally, by God because they know nothing. Until they come of age their nesds are met by their creator ..they are nothing but spiritual soldiers without any form of training ... Their lives depends on their angels until they come of age and are able soldiers through, first, baptsim ....john said he didn't know who the saviour was but he went back to Jerusalem baptising in the name of the father so he can announce him to the world ... baptsim announces you to the world that you have made your choice.
Jesus was more than capable at the age of 12 but waited until 30 because baptism is your intiation into the Christian journey. He wanted to demonstrate it that it was not for babies

If you use babies for rituals or offend them, it is their angels that prays before God on their behalf until they are of age ....1 Peter 2:2 says desire the sincere milk of the word so you can grow therefore .... The same scripture says if a child remains a child he is no more than the slave in the house


A child is born but a son is given .. government...that is responsibility is on the shoulders of sons not child or children of God but sons of God.. You grow into sonship by understanding. It is not automatic in this kingdom of God ... It is through the desire of the word of God


The holy spirit has never told me that he established a church anywhere ...what I have been able to see is that Jesus gave the great commission to every born again Christian to go and make disciples of very nation and Paul did his utmost best using the means availabe to him. What he says to one he says to all ....

9inches:
I'm not sure I should be arguing Scripture with someone who doesn't understand it.

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, John sees that “the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints” (Rev. 5:8 ). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

Angels do the same thing: “[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with [b]the prayers of all the saints u[/b]pon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God” (Rev. 8:3–4).

Jesus himself warned us not to offend small children, because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: “See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 18:10).

Because he is the only God-man and the Mediator of the New Covenant, Jesus is the only mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1–4). In particular, we should ask the intercession of those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for “[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects” (Jas. 5:16).

What's the name of the church you said Jesus established and in which country? Please remind me.

If you have any sense in you head you would have used it to interpreted what your YouTube video is about here on nairaland. I am not the only person interested in this our back and forth .. you can see that somebody is liking the contribution.. he or she is learning something or agreeing with contributions

9inches:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxDumU0TSrY

Jesus expounding from ALL scripture all that was written concerning Jim by ALL THE PROPHETS means the entire old statement availability is no longer in doubt.
Lfor the new testament, it is obvious or ought to be clear to you that the actual actors were still very much around .., they didn't need scripture to tell the Corinth about Jesus ... They were the first hand witness of everything in the gospels ...when Christianity spread behind Jerusalem, Paul , Peter and John and the rest had to start sorting to correct errors and fiber directions ...this makes up very large part of the new testament.


The first four books of the gospels are more like personal diaries or records of each of those apostles.... Matthew, mark, John ,Luke

9inches:
Bible means both Old and New Testament, Mr. Man. Which bible, especially the again.

Did the Galatians read letter sent to the Corinthians? Did the Philippians read letter sent to the Romans, and so on..? What gospel did Stephen read while he was preaching?

Good luck.

Nodogragra4me:
Jesus expounding from ALL scripture all that was written concerning Jim by ALL THE PROPHETS means the entire old statement availability is no longer in doubt.
Lfor the new testament, it is obvious or ought to be clear to you that the actual actors were still very much around .., they didn't need scripture to tell the Corinth about Jesus ... They were the first hand witness of everything in the gospels ...when Christianity spread behind Jerusalem, Paul , Peter and John and the rest had to start sorting to correct errors and fiber directions ...this makes up very large part of the new testament.


The first four books of the gospels are more like personal diaries or records of each of those apostles.... Matthew, mark, John ,Luke

Good answer! Now, keep musing in that direction... did Timothy who never met Christ but learned from Paul and the apostles read the bible (New Testament) in order to know and preach the Gospel as the first Christian bishop of Ephesus?

You see, the church would still be propagating the gospel even if there was no written text of the gospel, but you would not have had the bible without the church. Here: 1 Timothy 3:15 ► "if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God [not the bible], the pillar and foundation of the truth.". The bible is one of the tools with which the Church teaches. It does not contain all the truth, but the Church does.

And here's the guarantee to the Church:
1. Matthew 28:20 "...And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
2. "...And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
You see, the Church has not only the authority from the Head of the Church Himself (Ephesians 5:23) but also the guarantee that it will never fail.

See here: Ephesians 1:22 "And God put everything under His feet and made Him head over everything for the church.

Do you know who these persons are? Justin Martyr, Tatian, Polycarp, Clement I, Irenaeus, Eusebius, etc. Why not go study the early Christians (Church fathers) and know how they preached the Word of God.

Nodogragra4me:
If you have any sense in you head you would have used it to interpreted what your YouTube video is about here on nairaland. I am not the only person interested in this our back and forth .. you can see that somebody is liking the contribution.. he or she is learning something or agreeing with contributions

The video is self explanatory. In case you haven't watched, it's about Deacon Alex Jones Jr., a former Pentecostal preacher whose dramatic conversion in the late 1990s led dozens of his Detroit-based congregation into the Catholic Church. While reading the Church fathers in preparation for a Bible study in March 1998, he made a startling discovery: that the Church of the ancient Christians was less like the one he was leading and more like something resembling a Church he’d never expected — namely, one that was “charismatic/liturgical, hierarchical, and Eucharistic-centered.” In other words, more Catholic.

A short trailer for the whole documentary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHz45YjBpI0

Nodogragra4me:
Re read all the scriptures you cited but very slowly.

The first book you cited says it was full of the prayers of the SAINTS... living people ... THEIR prayers... NOT THE ONE DONE BY A DEMON MARY on a world TOUR of your CHURHC BUT THE ACTUAL PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS ... LIVING CHRISTISNS ... HERE ON EARTH ... It IS THE PRAYERS of THE PEOPLE On THE EARTH


The second verse you cited says the angel was GIVEN... IT IS THE PROTOCOL THAT HE WAS OBSERVING.... IT IS NOT HIS CHOICE ... HE WAS GIVEN .... THEY ARE telling you now prayers are mixed for result ... He was GIVEN to mix with THE PRAYERS OF LIVING PEOPLE CALLED THE SAINTS ...NOT DEAD VAGABONDS acting on a pope instructions hoping to avoid purgatory. The PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS ...MOT THE PRAYES OF THE ANGELS BUT THE SAINTS PRAYED already to Jesus ... Compiled prayer being prepared for answers .... The prayer of a righteous man availeth much... Righteousness is actually believing or having faith... Abraham believed God and it was counted for him for righteousness..... Righteousness is accepting that nothing in you but just believing Jesus Christ and accepting the righteousness he freely offers you that makes you righteous .. you can't earn your righteousness otherwise Jesus would have not died for you

Your third verse: you can never know the mind of God with the intellect. It is the work of the holy spirit . Angels are ministering spirits not intercessory spirits. They minster results..,answers ... Remeber the angels and Daniel and the Persian prince .... The spiritual need of every child is met, supernaturally, by God because they know nothing. Until they come of age their nesds are met by their creator ..they are nothing but spiritual soldiers without any form of training ... Their lives depends on their angels until they come of age and are able soldiers through, first, baptsim ....john said he didn't know who the saviour was but he went back to Jerusalem baptising in the name of the father so he can announce him to the world ... baptsim announces you to the world that you have made your choice.
Jesus was more than capable at the age of 12 but waited until 30 because baptism is your intiation into the Christian journey. He wanted to demonstrate it that it was not for babies

If you use babies for rituals or offend them, it is their angels that prays before God on their behalf until they are of age ....1 Peter 2:2 says desire the sincere milk of the word so you can grow therefore .... The same scripture says if a child remains a child he is no more than the slave in the house

A child is born but a son is given .. government...that is responsibility is on the shoulders of sons not child or children of God but sons of God.. You grow into sonship by understanding. It is not automatic in this kingdom of God ... It is through the desire of the word of God

The holy spirit has never told me that he established a church anywhere ...what I have been able to see is that Jesus gave the great commission to every born again Christian to go and make disciples of very nation and Paul did his utmost best using the means availabe to him. What he says to one he says to all ....

What an avid heretics you are! Where in your bible did you see 'living and dead saints'? You are failing your own rule of bible-alone. Why attribute to the bible what it did not say if not for ignorance?

Just to clear your ignorance, in the Christian sense, saints don't die, they go to LIVE with God.

Question for you: Is Jesus Christ dead?

tranxo:


Church of CHRIST.

If you think Jesus recognises denomination, you have yourself a puzzle to solve. Superiority complex is deceitful. Of course you won't agree.

If you think Jesus did not establish a Church by himself, then I don't know why I should argue the bible with you.

It's clearly documented in the bible that He established a Church, gave it authority to teach all truth. We know from the bible that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth. We know from the bible that He and left the church with an absolute guarantee that he will be with it until the end of time....

The debate is which Church is that today? Unless Jesus himself lied, the Church would still be very much around. Now, tell me which church is that so we both could trace back and see if it's true.

Thanks.

Firstly, you are amongst the negligible percentage of Catholics who circumstances have forced to reluctantly agreed that Christians here on earth are actually the saints not those in heaven.


Your official CHURHC position is that it is those who have died and have received special recognition that is calibrated by your CHURHC .....or ranked.... Tansi is still at the level of Bleesed ...the has not attain full star general of a saint in your church ... Are those qualified to be called saints who are like your Mary , alternate power source to Jesus. Even those who help carry out public execution of so called heretics ended up as saints .. even this scallywag called Shekaru that runs the Boko gangs is a leaner in the acts of committing heinous crime against humanity.

Scripturally, saints is the name used to refer to God's people here on the earth when they still have flesh coverings for their spirit and soul. Anyone that is numbered by God while here on earth , as his own is a saint of God not of the Catholic church and they can pray intercessory prayer while here on the earth for humanity but ceases as soon as they die because When they die they return as spirits into heaven for God is only a Spirit but God of all flesh. Here are some examples from the scripture:


9 He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness, because no man shall prevail by his own strength. (DRC, 1 Samuel 2:9).... Feet belongs to the flesh and wicked people are not in heaven to fight with saints

15 Saying: O Lord God of heaven and earth, behold their pride, and look on our low condition, and have regard to the face of thy saints, and shew that thou forsakest not them that trust on thee, and that thou humblest them that presume of themselves, and glory in their own


strength. (DRC, Judith 6:15)


5 For we are the children of saints, and we must not be joined together like heathens that know not God. (DRC, Tobit 8:5)..their fathers were God disciples

1 Unto the end; for the octave, a psalm for David: Save me, O Lord, for there is now no saint: truths are decayed from among the children of men. (DRC, Psalms 12:1)


24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. (DRC, Revelation 18:24)


12 Here is the patience of the saints, who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (DRC, Revelation 14:12)


4 And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel. (DRC, Revelation 8:4)



Is Jesus Christ dead? This Mumu question ought to be directed at your pope. To have your Mary answer your prayers whether at the same or respectively, she needs to be omnipresent. It is possible that your early pope's believe Jesus died kpatata on the cross hence Mary ascendency to the office of intercessory with a retinue of aides called saints to help her with the task ... Saint ubenedictus , pray for the pope to receive sense

9inches:
What an avid heretics you are! Where in your bible did you see 'living and dead saints'? You are failing your own rule of bible-alone. Why attribute to the bible what it did not say if not for ignorance?

Just to clear your ignorance, in the Christian sense, saints don't die, they go to LIVE with God.

Question for you: Is Jesus Christ dead?

I don't read the ancient , I study the Bible and read a lot of anointed books on same. All the examples of the Christian life is properly captured in the scripture so no other example is required. Peter, Paul and John never prayed through any of the fathers of the faith even though the scripture was available and they knew those fathers like Abraham , Moses , Isaiah, Elijah and their exploits very well

9inches:
The video is self explanatory. In case you haven't watched, it's about Deacon Alex Jones Jr., a former Pentecostal preacher whose dramatic conversion in the late 1990s led dozens of his Detroit-based congregation into the Catholic Church. While reading the Church fathers in preparation for a Bible study in March 1998, he made a startling discovery: that the Church of the ancient Christians was less like the one he was leading and more like something resembling a Church he’d never expected — namely, one that was “charismatic/liturgical, hierarchical, and Eucharistic-centered.” In other words, more Catholic.

A short trailer for the whole documentary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHz45YjBpI0