₦airaland Forum

achorladey:

You are only reading and the sense of what is typed you fail to grasp.

Since you know their pastors nor worshippers do not accept me. How has that go to do with you? Do you want to advocate on my behalf? So that I gain their acceptance. Seeker of the GLORY of men. Your palaver!

The last part of the post is filled with the IRONIES stated earlier a confirmation that you are only reading but not listening carefully.

You ? Do u grasp the sense ?


It's funny u talk about testing but had been struggling to grasp difference between a covenant for those called and Jesus mediating for all men.

U are equating it to the same thing, that's where your problem started. If an expression reads those called, it's logical that some are not called.

But another expression says " all men " . logically everyone either called or not.

With those differences , no sound Bible student will equate the two context of mediatorship.

Jozzy4:
@bold, Why did you avoid that psalm 37:29 ? yeye

Revelation 21:3,4 God tent is with MANKIND. Not spirits , showing it refer to life on earth . these ones are not partakers of heavenly calling for members of new covenant. Thus excluded



Hebrews 3:1 " partakers of the HEAVENLY CALLING "

John 3:8 God called who is member of the new covenant. Their destination is Heaven .

Numbering 144,000 Rev 14:1,3 " [b] these were brought from AMONG MANKIND as first fruits to God and to the Lamb "

You see the number called from AMONG MANKIND ?



If done, would you admit they are not part of royal priesthood ?

My point remains those on earth are not in the covenant for those called to serve as King and Priest in heaven .

.

Jozzy4:
@bold, Why did you avoid that psalm 37:29 ? yeye

Revelation 21:3,4 God tent is with MANKIND. Not spirits , showing it refer to life on earth . these ones are not partakers of heavenly calling for members of new covenant. Thus excluded



Hebrews 3:1 " partakers of the HEAVENLY CALLING "

John 3:8 God called who is member of the new covenant. Their destination is Heaven .

Numbering 144,000 Rev 14:1,3 " [b] these were brought from AMONG MANKIND as first fruits to God and to the Lamb "

You see the number called from AMONG MANKIND ?



If done, would you admit they are not part of royal priesthood ?

My point remains those on earth are not in the covenant for those called to serve as King and Priest in heaven .

Jozzy4: @bold, Why did you avoid that psalm 37:29 ? yeye

Achorladey: This is Psalms 37:29 The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it.

So what is in there? Or simply because the RIGHTEOUS are on earth means they are not ROYALS?

Jozzy4: Revelation 21:3,4 God tent is with MANKIND. Not spirits,

showing it refer to life on earth. these ones are not partakers of heavenly calling for members of new covenant. Thus excluded

Achorladey: This is 2 Corinthians 6:16 again And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

Where is the SPIRIT you are talking about? and equally show were it is stated that these ones mentioned in Revelation are not partakers of the ONE and ONLY COVENANTS?

Or perhaps because you mean because the 144,000 are spirits KINGS and PRIEST in heaven God don't dwell in them too. Hahahahahaha.

Jozzy4: Hebrews 3:1 " partakers of the HEAVENLY CALLING "

Achorladey: Hebrew 3:1 Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we acknowledge—Jesus.

Where did you see here that HOLY BROTHERS equate to 144,000 and are the ONLY partakers of HEAVENLY CALLING. Where?

Phillipians 3: 20, 21 But our CITIZENSHIP EXISTS in the HEAVENS, and we are eagerly waiting for a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our humble body to be like his glorious body by his great power that enables him to subject all things to himself

Is the OUR here for 144,000 alone?

Jozzy4: John 3:8 God called who is member of the new covenant. Their destination is Heaven.

Achorladey: This is John 3:8.......The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who has been born from the spirit.

Show me where it states So EVERYONE WHO has BEEN BORN from the SPIRIT are NOT MORE THAN 144,000. simple!

Jozzy4: Numbering 144,000 Rev 14:1,3 " [b] these were brought from AMONG MANKIND as first fruits to God and to the Lamb "

Achorladey: I dont want to believe you want to use wuruwuru to the answer.

You have not even shown how God called those in the NEW COVENANT from the statement recorded in John 3:8 you are already giving me numbers of those called. Hahahahahaha.

Jozzy4: You see the number called from AMONG MANKIND?

Achorladey: I can see 144,000 Rev 14:1,3 but I see no correllation between it and John 3:8 and how it relates with the one and only NEW COVENANT.

Jozzy4: If done, would you admit they are not part of royal priesthood?

Achorladey: Bring it on let me see.

Jozzy4: My point remains those on earth are not in the covenant for those called to serve as King and Priest in heaven.

Achorladey: You agreed earlier that those in the one and only new covenant are christians. Since you agree, my point remains for all those in this one and only new covenant they remain as King and Priest irrespective of their DESTINATION( Heaven or Earth).

Simply because christ made them HEIRS of the PROMISE and as many as christ can this was stated clearly

John 1:12......However, to ALL WHO did RECEIVE him( and not "to 144,000 that received", he gave authority to become GOD'S CHILDREN (ROYALS), because they were exercising faith in his name.

CAPTIVATOR:
You ? Do u grasp the sense ?


It's funny u talk about testing but had been struggling to grasp difference between a covenant for those called and Jesus mediating for all men.

U are equating it to the same thing, that's where your problem started. If an expression reads those called, it's logical that some are not called.

But another expression says " all men " . logically everyone either called or not.

With those differences , no sound Bible student will equate the two context of mediatorship.

CAPTIVATOR: You? Do u grasp the sense ?

Achorladey: Oga CAPTIVATOR it's been a while. Welcome back! Concerning the question you will know the answer very soon.

CAPTIVATOR: It's funny u talk about testing.

Achorladey: What are we testing here? Oga CAPTIVATOR.

CAPTIVATOR: but had been struggling to grasp difference between a covenant for those called and Jesus mediating for all men.

Achorladey: You sure about that. Well your contributions will be well received and it seems you have some included here already.

CAPTIVATOR: U are equating it to the same thing, that's where your problem started.

Achorladey: It's good you know where my problem started. I believe you can find solutions to it. To start with,

what is CHRIST MEDIATING for ALL MEN based UPON?

CAPTIVATOR: If an expression reads those called, it's logical that some are not called.

Achorladey: Fine, then who are THOSE CALLED and those not CALLED?

CAPTIVATOR: But another expression says " all men ". logically everyone either called or not.

Achorladey: We are still dealing with EVERYONE EITHER CALLED or NOT amongst the ALL MEN. So who are they? as it relates with the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT.

CAPTIVATOR: With those differences , no sound Bible student will equate the two context of mediatorship.

achorladey: What's the TWO CONTEXT of MEDIATORSHIP we are dealing with here?

achorladey:
Jozzy4: @bold, Why did you avoid that psalm 37:29 ? yeye

Achorladey: This is Psalms 37:29 The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it.

So what is in there? Or simply because the RIGHTEOUS are on earth means they are not ROYALS?

Jozzy4: Revelation 21:3,4 God tent is with MANKIND. Not spirits,

showing it refer to life on earth. these ones are not partakers of heavenly calling for members of new covenant. Thus excluded

Achorladey: This is 2 Corinthians 6:16 again And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

Where is the SPIRIT you are talking about? and equally show were it is stated that these ones mentioned in Revelation are not partakers of the ONE and ONLY COVENANTS?

Or perhaps because you mean because the 144,000 are spirits KINGS and PRIEST in heaven God don't dwell in them too. Hahahahahaha.

Jozzy4: Hebrews 3:1 " partakers of the HEAVENLY CALLING "

Achorladey: Hebrew 3:1 Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we acknowledge—Jesus.

Where did you see here that HOLY BROTHERS equate to 144,000 and are the ONLY partakers of HEAVENLY CALLING. Where?

Phillipians 3: 20, 21 But our CITIZENSHIP EXISTS in the HEAVENS, and we are eagerly waiting for a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our humble body to be like his glorious body by his great power that enables him to subject all things to himself

Is the OUR here for 144,000 alone?

Jozzy4: John 3:8 God called who is member of the new covenant. Their destination is Heaven.

Achorladey: This is John 3:8.......The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who has been born from the spirit.

Show me where it states So EVERYONE WHO has BEEN BORN from the SPIRIT are NOT MORE THAN 144,000. simple!

Jozzy4: Numbering 144,000 Rev 14:1,3 " [b] these were brought from AMONG MANKIND as first fruits to God and to the Lamb "

Achorladey: I dont want to believe you want to use wuruwuru to the answer.

You have not even shown how God called those in the NEW COVENANT from the statement recorded in John 3:8 you are already giving me numbers of those called. Hahahahahaha.

Jozzy4: You see the number called from AMONG MANKIND?

Achorladey: I can see 144,000 Rev 14:1,3 but I see no correllation between it and John 3:8 and how it relates with the one and only NEW COVENANT.

Jozzy4: If done, would you admit they are not part of royal priesthood?

Achorladey: Bring it on let me see.

Jozzy4: My point remains those on earth are not in the covenant for those called to serve as King and Priest in heaven.

Achorladey: You agreed earlier that those in the one and only new covenant are christians. Since you agree, my point remains for all those in this one and only new covenant they remain as King and Priest irrespective of their DESTINATION( Heaven or Earth).

Simply because christ made them HEIRS of the PROMISE and as many as christ can this was stated clearly

John 1:12......However, to ALL WHO did RECEIVE him( and not "to 144,000 that received", he gave authority to become GOD'S CHILDREN (ROYALS), because they were exercising faith in his name.

Let the scripture answer you boldly

Rev 5:10

" and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God , and they are to RULE AS KINGS [b] over the earth "

Those over whom the King rule are subject, not Kings !!!

Notice those called to rule , are not said to be ruling over each other. They are Kings, those whom they rule are on earth, they are subjects not kings . exposing your fraudulent claim that all are kings .

achorladey:
CAPTIVATOR: You? Do u grasp the sense ?

Achorladey: Oga CAPTIVATOR it's been a while. Welcome back! Concerning the question you will know the answer very soon.

CAPTIVATOR: It's funny u talk about testing.

Achorladey: What are we testing here? Oga CAPTIVATOR.

CAPTIVATOR: but had been struggling to grasp difference between a covenant for those called and Jesus mediating for all men.

Achorladey: You sure about that. Well your contributions will be well received and it seems you have some included here already.

CAPTIVATOR: U are equating it to the same thing, that's where your problem started.

Achorladey: It's good you know where my problem started. I believe you can find solutions to it. To start with,

what is CHRIST MEDIATING for ALL MEN based UPON?

CAPTIVATOR: If an expression reads those called, it's logical that some are not called.

Achorladey: Fine, then who are THOSE CALLED and those not CALLED?

CAPTIVATOR: But another expression says " all men ". logically everyone either called or not.

Achorladey: We are still dealing with EVERYONE EITHER CALLED or NOT amongst the ALL MEN. So who are they? as it relates with the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT.

CAPTIVATOR: With those differences , no sound Bible student will equate the two context of mediatorship.

achorladey: What's the TWO CONTEXT of MEDIATORSHIP we are dealing with here?

Comprehension.

He is telling you there is difference between what Is identified with those called and another identified with all men.

Some called to be king and priest , others are not.

Jozzy4:
Let the scripture answer you boldly

Rev 5:10

" and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God , and they are to RULE AS KINGS [b] over the earth "

Those over whom the King rule are subject, not Kings !!!

Notice those called to rule , are not said to be ruling over each other. They are Kings, those whom they rule are on earth, they are subjects not kings . exposing your fraudulent claim that all are kings .

Jozzy4: Let the scripture answer you boldly

Achorladey: okay

Jozzy4: Rev 5:10

"and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God , and they are to RULE AS KINGS over the earth"

Achorladey: Yes, Revelation 5:10....You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”

Jozzy4: Those over whom the King rule are subject, not Kings !!!

Achorladey: and who are the SUBJECT in this case?

Obviously you will say those on the EARTH? Simply because they are on EARTH and since they are on earth to you they are not part of the one and only new covenant.

Are they part of the only one and new covenant?

Your answer will be NO because these people are on EARTH.

So according to my position that you bolded what does that tell you about those in the one and only new covenant?

Jozzy4: Notice those called to rule , are not said to be ruling over each other.

Achorladey: And did you see me state that those ruling are ruling over each other?

Jozzy4: They are Kings, those whom they rule are on earth,they are subjects not kings.

Achorladey: Who are the subjects the kings are ruling over?

Jozzy4: exposing your fraudulent claim that all are kings.

Achorladey: what fraudulent claim are you talking about? That Jesus made as many as possible that received him GOD'S CHILDREN(ROYALS) and HEIR to the promise a fraudulent act?

Jozzy4:
Comprehension.

He is telling you there is difference between what Is identified with those called and another identified with all men.

Some called to be king and priest , others are not.

Jozzy4: Comprehension.

Achorladey: Yes

Jozzy4: He is telling you there is difference between what Is identified with those called and another identified with all men.

Achorladey: Bring out the difference as it relates to the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT.

Jozzy4: Some called to be king and priest, others are not.

Achorladey: all in that one and only NEW COVENANT abi? Show the difference.

Maximus69, Jozzy4, TATIME, Jessicha, CAPTIVATOR

It feels to acknowledge that you have accepted a bible teaching, though still far off from accepting all. What do I mean? The scriptural teachings in 1 T 2:5,6. It reads:

1 Timothy 2:5, 6
For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and people. He is the man Christ Jesus. He gave his life to purchase freedom for everyone. This is the message that God gave to the world at the proper time.

I must commend you all. At least for accepting that Jesus mediates for all men. (Though you still have not accepted that this is based in the new covenant. Let's leave that for another day.)

Unfortunately, accepting the scriptural teachings above sets you guys on the path of apostasy. Why? Because the watchtower organization has rejected that Jesus mediates for all men in its entirety. In their theology, Jesus mediatorship cannot or does not reach all men, but only the 144,000.

The publications below lays it out succinctly that, according to watchtower theological, if you are not among the 144k, Jesus is not your mediator.

“He mediates the new covenant between God and those taken into the new covenant, the congregation of spiritual Israel. The total number of those who are finally and permanently sealed is revealed in Revelation 7:4-8 as 144,000.” - Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2 p.362

“So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the “mediator” only for anointed Christians.”- Watchtower 1979 Apr 1 p.31

“Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members.” - Worldwide Security Under the “Prince of Peace” (1986) pp.10-11

https://www.jwfacts.com/images/mediator-watchtower-index-1986-2000.jpg

https://www.jwfacts.com/images/mediator-watchtower-index-1986-2016.jpeg

So dear friends, Jesus is not even your mediator according to watchtower unless you claim to be among the 144000. But of course, if you can claim that Jesus is your mediator, then it seems we are looking forward the welcoming new apostates

achorladey:
oga Maximus69 you want to join us, the way you are using FUGITIVE it seems like you want to associate with us, you said we are FUGITIVES, Thank you. Which one be you are not worshipping Jehovah of Armies. Na you be Jehovah of Armies again?

You want to bring your analogies here that since God is attributed as Jehovah of armies, we have to group together like soldiers before we worship him. Pele oooo

Sorry Oga Maximus69 if thats your mindset, John 14:23 still dey inside bible please do read. No be until teeth plenty before we fit chop ooo even as low as two we go still use am.

Jehovah of ARMIES simply mean he had two types of army[GROUP of soldiers]!
¤ The heavenly army : GROUP of angels[spirit beings] doing his will!
¤ The earthly army :GROUP of humans unitedly doing his will!
If you don't belong to any of these two, then you're not a worshiper of Jehovah of ARMIES!
Perhaps i'm wrong so don't take it personal, that's my own personal understanding of the scriptures and the main reason why i can NEVER agree that you and i are brothers!

rottennaija:
Maximus69, Jozzy4, TATIME, Jessicha, CAPTIVATOR

It feels to acknowledge that you have accepted a bible teaching, though still far off from accepting all. What do I mean? The scriptural teachings in 1 T 2:5,6. It reads:

1 Timothy 2:5, 6
For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and people. He is the man Christ Jesus. He gave his life to purchase freedom for everyone. This is the message that God gave to the world at the proper time.

I must commend you all. At least for accepting that Jesus mediates for all men. (Though you still have not accepted that this is based in the new covenant. Let's leave that for another day.)

Unfortunately, accepting the scriptural teachings above sets you guys on the path of apostasy. Why? Because the watchtower organization has rejected that Jesus mediates for all men in its entirety. In their theology, Jesus mediatorship cannot or does not reach all men, but only the 144,000.

The publications below lays it out succinctly that, according to watchtower theological, if you are not among the 144k, Jesus is not your mediator.



https://www.jwfacts.com/images/mediator-watchtower-index-1986-2000.jpg

https://www.jwfacts.com/images/mediator-watchtower-index-1986-2016.jpeg

So dear friends, Jesus is not even your mediator according to watchtower unless you claim to be among the 144000. But of course, if you can claim that he is, then it seems we are looking forward the welcoming new apostates

Just explain why Jehovah's name and Jesus' name was written on the FOREHEADS of the 144,000 ONLY. Revelations 14:1
That's the only way you can prove the GB of JWs wrong on that issue, apart from that you're just making NOISE!

Maximus69:
Just explain why Jehovah's name and Jesus' name was written on the FOREHEADS of the 144,000 ONLY. Revelations 14:1
That's the only way you can prove the GB of JWs wrong on that issue, apart from that you're just making NOISE!

Which issue? That Jesus is not your mediator according to the Watchtower or that he is?

achorladey:
Jozzy4: Let the scripture answer you boldly

Achorladey: okay

Jozzy4: Rev 5:10

"and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God , and they are to RULE AS KINGS over the earth"

Achorladey: Yes, Revelation 5:10....You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”

Jozzy4: Those over whom the King rule are subject, not Kings !!!

Achorladey: and who are the SUBJECT in this case?

Obviously you will say those on the EARTH? Simply because they are on EARTH and since they are on earth to you they are not part of the one and only new covenant.

Are they part of the only one and new covenant?


Your answer will be NO because these people are on EARTH.

So according to my position that you bolded what does that tell you about those in the one and only new covenant?

Jozzy4: Notice those called to rule , are not said to be ruling over each other.

Achorladey: And did you see me state that those ruling are ruling over each other?

Jozzy4: They are Kings, those whom they rule are on earth,they are subjects not kings.

Achorladey: Who are the subjects the kings are ruling over?

Jozzy4: exposing your fraudulent claim that all are kings.

Achorladey: what fraudulent claim are you talking about? That Jesus made as many as possible that received him GOD'S CHILDREN(ROYALS) and HEIR to the promise a fraudulent act?

Cambridge dictionary defines reign as " to be the King or Queen of a country "

Everyone who is not a king in that country are subjects. Because the king Reign ON them.

So your position at bold lacks credence, the bible said they reign on EARTH . that makes everyone on earth a subject .

Subject meaning

3. a member of a state other than its ruler

Those on earth are not rulers . get sense

Jozzy4:
Cambridge dictionary defines reign as " to be the King or Queen of a country "

Everyone who is not a king in that country are subjects. Because the king Reign ON them.

So your position at bold lacks credence, the bible said they reign on EARTH . that makes everyone on earth a subject .

Subject meaning

3. a member of a state other than its ruler

Those on earth are not rulers . get sense

How about kingdom? How does Cambridge dictionary defines a kingdom?

rottennaija:
Which issue? That Jesus is not your mediator according to the Watchtower or that he is?

Keep on asking! Matthew 7:7

Maximus69:
Keep on asking! Matthew 7:7

So Las Las, we can agree Jesus isn't your mediator. He mediates only for the GB who in turn mediates for you

rottennaija:
How about kingdom? How does Cambridge dictionary defines a kingdom?

How does this negate the fact that Those on earth are not rulers ?

Kingdom , Cambridge
" an area that is controlled by a particular person or where a particular person is important

The kingdom OF GOD "

Good example it cites

So God owns all in heaven and earth . his kingdom

But only those brought from earth to heaven are said to be RULERS .

Their territory ... Earth .

rottennaija:
So Las Las, we can agree Jesus isn't your mediator. He mediates only for the GB who in turn mediates for you

Keep on trying!

Jozzy4:
How does this negate the fact that Those on earth are not rulers ?

Kingdom , Cambridge
" an area that is controlled by a particular person or where a particular person is important

The kingdom OF GOD "

Good example it cites

So God owns all in heaven and earth . his kingdom

But only those brought from earth to heaven are said to be RULERS .

Their territory ... Earth .

The only problem with your rulers are that they are rulers that is kings and are also the kingdom, that is " an area that is controlled by a particular person or where a particular person is important". So according to Re 5:9,10, they are not just kings but are also a kingdom.

Re 5:10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

Unless of course, those ruled over on the earth are now the domain or area in which the king rules, those ruled over are the Kingdom.

Jozzy4:
Cambridge dictionary defines reign as " to be the King or Queen of a country "

Everyone who is not a king in that country are subjects. Because the king Reign ON them.

So your position at bold lacks credence, the bible said they reign on EARTH . that makes everyone on earth a subject .

Subject meaning

3. a member of a state other than its ruler

Those on earth are not rulers . get sense

Jozzy4: EVERYONE who is NOT a KING in that country are subjects. BECAUSE the KING Reign ON THEM.

Achorladey: So who among those in the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT that is not a KING?

Jozzy4: So your position at bold lacks credence,

Achorladey: The bold we are talking about here is

"YOUR ANSWER WILL BE NO BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE ARE ON EARTH"

Did you see that I raised this question below on your behalf which I answered with what you bolded.

This is the question......ARE THEY PART OF THE ONLY ONE AND NEW COVENANT?

So if you state the position there lacks credence, it's never my position, it's yours.

Jozzy4: the bible said they reign on EARTH . that makes EVERYONE on EARTH a SUBJECT .

Achorladey: Revelation 5:10 You have APPOINTED THEM as a KINGDOM and PRIESTS to SERVE our God, and THEY will REIGN on the EARTH.”

So how are they still SUBJECTS?

Maximus69:
Jehovah of ARMIES simply mean he had two types of army[GROUP of soldiers]!
¤ The heavenly army : GROUP of angels[spirit beings] doing his will!
¤ The earthly army :GROUP of humans unitedly doing his will!
If you don't belong to any of these two, then you're not a worshiper of Jehovah of ARMIES!
Perhaps i'm wrong so don't take it personal, that's my own personal understanding of the scriptures and the main reason why i can NEVER agree that you and i are brothers!

One of your friend accused me of lacking sense, but from your explanation here, I indeed get the sense of what you meant by including JEHOVAH of ARMIES in that post I responded to previously.

Please do inform him about the outcome of his test he set for me.

Maximus69: The earthly army :GROUP of humans unitedly doing his will!

Achorladey: From your definition above, let's reason together. Who did Jesus Christ identify as doing God's will?

John 6: 40 For this is the WILL of MY FATHER—for everyone who looks on the SON and BELIEVES in HIM to have ETERNAL LIFE, and I will raise HIM up at the last day.

So you LOOK ON and BELIEVE the SON, I do, many of those we have been discussing with do, including all those we have as friends, families relatives acquaintance do. Is that not already a LARGE ARMY?

Must we be in an ORGANIZATION set up by men before we do what Christ made know in that John 6:40?


Maximus69: Perhaps i'm wrong so don't take it personal, that's my own personal understanding of the scriptures

Achorladey: whether you are right or wrong is yours to sort out. Na you bring the scenario or analogy, You have equally seen my explanation. Whatever you make of it is still yours to decide.

Maximus69: and the main reason why i can NEVER agree that you and i are brothers!

Achorladey: You know my position on this long before this time.

achorladey:
One of your friend accused me of lacking sense, but from your explanation here, I indeed get the sense of what you meant by including JEHOVAH of ARMIES in that post I responded to previously.

Please do inform him about the outcome of his test he set for me.

Maximus69: The earthly army :GROUP of humans unitedly doing his will!

Achorladey: From your definition above, let's reason together. Who did Jesus Christ identify as doing God's will?

John 6: 40 For this is the WILL of MY FATHER—for everyone who looks on the SON and BELIEVES in HIM to have ETERNAL LIFE, and I will raise HIM up at the last day.

So you LOOK ON and BELIEVE the SON, I do, many of those we have been discussing with do, including all those we have as friends, families relatives acquaintance do. Is that not already a LARGE ARMY?

Must we be in an ORGANIZATION set up by men before we do what Christ made know in that John 6:40?


Maximus69: Perhaps i'm wrong so don't take it personal, that's my own personal understanding of the scriptures

Achorladey: whether you are right or wrong is yours to sort out. Na you bring the scenario or analogy, You have equally seen my explanation. Whatever you make of it is still yours to decide.

Maximus69: and the main reason why i can NEVER agree that you and i are brothers!

Achorladey: You know my position on this long before this time.

The one and only reason we can't agree is your admittance that all those calling Jesus lord are truly his followers! Matthew 7:21-23
While there will be a difficulty distinguishing amongst those PRACTICING what he laid down as tenets, it is the simplest task to identify those who aren't ready to comply with his RULE5! So if you don't belong to a particular GROUP whose doctrines could be checked and ascertain from his written words[Act 17:11] i can NEVER agree that you have anything to do with Jesus!

rottennaija:
Maximus69, Jozzy4, TATIME, Jessicha, CAPTIVATOR

It feels to acknowledge that you have accepted a bible teaching, though still far off from accepting all. What do I mean? The scriptural teachings in 1 T 2:5,6. It reads:

1 Timothy 2:5, 6
For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and people. He is the man Christ Jesus. He gave his life to purchase freedom for everyone. This is the message that God gave to the world at the proper time.

I must commend you all. At least for accepting that Jesus mediates for all men. (Though you still have not accepted that this is based in the new covenant. Let's leave that for another day.)

Unfortunately, accepting the scriptural teachings above sets you guys on the path of apostasy. Why? Because the watchtower organization has rejected that Jesus mediates for all men in its entirety. In their theology, Jesus mediatorship cannot or does not reach all men, but only the 144,000.

The publications below lays it out succinctly that, according to watchtower theological, if you are not among the 144k, Jesus is not your mediator.



https://www.jwfacts.com/images/mediator-watchtower-index-1986-2000.jpg

https://www.jwfacts.com/images/mediator-watchtower-index-1986-2016.jpeg

So dear friends, Jesus is not even your mediator according to watchtower unless you claim to be among the 144000. But of course, if you can claim that Jesus is your mediator, then it seems we are looking forward the welcoming new apostates

rottennaija: So dear friends, Jesus is not even your mediator according to watchtower unless you claim to be among the 144000. But of course, if you can claim that Jesus is your mediator, then it seems we are looking forward the welcoming new apostates

Achorladey: It looks and sound interesting, and considering this was printed in Watchtower of June 2014 with article titled

THREE 16th-Century TTruth SEEKERS​—WHAT Did THEY FIND?


What enabled Capito, Cellarius, Campanus, and others to reject certain church teachings? They did what the first-century Beroeans did, who examined the Scriptures carefully “to see whether these things were so.” ( Acts 17:11 )


Here are some of the three Reformers’ findings:

CHURCH TEACHING : Saints may be venerated as intercessors with God.


WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY

“There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.”​— 1 Timothy 2:5

Why will one not be expected to ask the question again

Is Christ the mediator of 144,000 alone? The expected ANSWER according to JWS THEOLOGY as highlighted in the INDEX pasted is YES.

But YES become NO when it comes to to CHURCH TEACHINGS which can be replaced with JWS THEOLOGY and you still see that YES becomes NO.

Where is the DIFFERENCE?

Maximus69:
The one and only reason we can't agree is your admittance that all those calling Jesus lord are truly his followers! Matthew 7:21-23
While there will be a difficulty distinguishing amongst those PRACTICING what he laid down as tenets, it is the simplest task to identify those who aren't ready to comply with his RULE5! So if you don't belong to a particular GROUP whose doctrines could be checked and ascertain from his written words[Act 17:11] i can NEVER agree that you have anything to do with Jesus!

Maximus69: The one and only reason we can't agree is your admittance that all those calling Jesus lord are truly his followers! Matthew 7:21-23

Achorladey: Do you have the parameters to judge who is indeed a A TRUE CHRISTIAN? Or who is the WHEAT and who is the WEED. Do the organization accept that it's WITHIN your(Maximus69) GRASP to decide that?

If you want to start THE marking OF people just like the GB were doing and stopped and later stated in their publication that they don't want to act PRESUMPTUOUSLY, GO AHEAD!


Matthew 7: 21 Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the ONE DOING the WILL of MY FATHER WHO is in THE HEAVENS WILL.

Since JWS dont heal or chase demons like the others do but they prophesy in CHRIST NAME and even take on ROLES as GOD'S SPOKESMAN over Mankind. Their record as GOD'S SPOKESMAN is open to everyone to see.

Matthew 7:22-23Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not PROPHESY in your NAME, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness


Maximus69: While there will be a difficulty distinguishing amongst those PRACTICING what he laid down as tenets,

Achorladey: So you know, why are then bent on MARKING those doing GOD'S WILL and those not DOING it. I though you have the STANDARD Ni.

Maximus69: it is the simplest task to identify those who aren't ready to comply with his RULES

Achorladey: What rules again? Did God or Christ force people to COMPLY with RULES?

Maximus69: So if you don't belong to a particular GROUP

Achorladey: Is being a Christian not a GROUP? or not the name of a GROUP?

Maximus69: whose doctrines could be checked and ascertain from his written words[Act 17:11] i can NEVER agree that you have anything to do with Jesus!

Achorladey: The beliefs of CHRISTIAN today is OPEN to SCRUTINY from time IMMEMORIAL, be it denominated CHRISTIAN or non denominated CHRISTIAN. That I am not expected to remind you all the time about.


Maximus69: I(Maximus69 and not JESUS CHRIST) can NEVER agree that you have anything to do with Jesus!

Achorladey: It's your position and palaver to ponder over not mine.

John 14:23......
In answer Jesus said to him: “If anyone loves me, he will observe my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him.

achorladey:
Maximus69: The one and only reason we can't agree is your admittance that all those calling Jesus lord are truly his followers! Matthew 7:21-23

Achorladey: Do you have the parameters to judge who is indeed a A TRUE CHRISTIAN? Or who is the WHEAT and who is the WEED. Do the organization accept that it's WITHIN your(Maximus69) GRASP to decide that?

If you want to start THE marking OF people just like the GB were doing and stopped and later stated in their publication that they don't want to act PRESUMPTUOUSLY, GO AHEAD!


Matthew 7: 21 Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the ONE DOING the WILL of MY FATHER WHO is in THE HEAVENS WILL.

Since JWS dont heal or chase demons like the others do but they prophesy in CHRIST NAME and even take on ROLES as GOD'S SPOKESMAN over Mankind. Their record as GOD'S SPOKESMAN is open to everyone to see.

Matthew 7:22-23Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not PROPHESY in your NAME, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness


Maximus69: While there will be a difficulty distinguishing amongst those PRACTICING what he laid down as tenets,

Achorladey: So you know, why are then bent on MARKING those doing GOD'S WILL and those not DOING it. I though you have the STANDARD Ni.

Maximus69: it is the simplest task to identify those who aren't ready to comply with his RULES

Achorladey: What rules again? Did God or Christ force people to COMPLY with RULES?

Maximus69: So if you don't belong to a particular GROUP

Achorladey: Is being a Christian not a GROUP? or not the name of a GROUP?

Maximus69: whose doctrines could be checked and ascertain from his written words[Act 17:11] i can NEVER agree that you have anything to do with Jesus!

Achorladey: The beliefs of CHRISTIAN today is OPEN to SCRUTINY from time IMMEMORIAL, be it denominated CHRISTIAN or non denominated CHRISTIAN. That I am not expected to remind you all the time about.


Maximus69: I(Maximus69 and not JESUS CHRIST) can NEVER agree that you have anything to do with Jesus!

Achorladey: It's your position and palaver to ponder over not mine.

John 14:23......
In answer Jesus said to him: “If anyone loves me, he will observe my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him.

I know you still remember as a military man all i want to know is the central control of command for any army. This is what stands as the bases of evaluation of their capability and limitations!
But when soldiers aren't unitedly pressing forward for a mission, the intelligence takes them for thieves and waste them anytime and anywhere we get them, because they're UNKNOWN or UNIDENTIFIED soldiers!
We will never kill those whom we're sure of their source since we can figure out the mission through the information gathered as regards their base! They will serve as source of further info and any [if needed] negotiation with their base!
That is how the army works Sir! So if your base is not known, you're just like a waste as in blood civilian carrying weapons to any military intelligence officer! John 17:21

Maximus69:
I know you still remember as a military man all i want to know is the central control of command for any army. This is what stands as the bases of evaluation of their capability and limitations!
But when soldiers aren't unitedly pressing forward for a mission, the intelligence takes them for thieves and waste them anytime and anywhere we get them, because they're UNKNOWN or UNIDENTIFIED soldiers!
We will never kill those whom we're sure of their source since we can figure out the mission through the information gathered as regards their base! They will serve as source of further info and any [if needed] negotiation with their base!
That is how the army works Sir! So if your base is not known, you're just like a waste as in blood civilian carrying weapons to any military intelligence officer! John 17:21

Save yourself the energy used in typing, you are a soldier of who?

A. Soldier of Christ

B. Soldier of GB.

Who is the ONE leader of christian soldiers?

A. Jesus Christ

B. Governing body.


The armor and weapons needed by Christ soldiers is obtained from where?

A. The Bible

B. The publications of Jehovah's witnesses.

Did the bible equally expose the machinations and designs of those we war against?

A. Yes

B. No

Was detailed account given on how to use the weapons to combat those we war against.

A. Yes

B No.

After all Jesus is said to be the WORD OF GOD and his soldiers kept CONQUERING with the WORD OF HIS (Jesus) MOUTH.

By now you should know where the CENTRAL COMMAND IS after all Matthew 28:18-20 states



Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

From WHOM did the DIRECTIVE CAME from? and what does that say about COMMAND CENTER YOU SEEK?

Revelation 12:11.....And they conquered him because of the BLOOD of the LAMB and because of the WORD of THEIR WITNESSING, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death.

achorladey:
rottennaija: So dear friends, Jesus is not even your mediator according to watchtower unless you claim to be among the 144000. But of course, if you can claim that Jesus is your mediator, then it seems we are looking forward the welcoming new apostates

Achorladey: It looks and sound interesting, and considering this was printed in Watchtower of June 2014 with article titled

THREE 16th-Century TTruth SEEKERS​—WHAT Did THEY FIND?


What enabled Capito, Cellarius, Campanus, and others to reject certain church teachings? They did what the first-century Beroeans did, who examined the Scriptures carefully “to see whether these things were so.” ( Acts 17:11 )


Here are some of the three Reformers’ findings:

CHURCH TEACHING : Saints may be venerated as intercessors with God.


WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY

“There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.”​— 1 Timothy 2:5

Why will one not be expected to ask the question again

Is Christ the mediator of 144,000 alone? The expected ANSWER according to JWS THEOLOGY as highlighted in the INDEX pasted is YES.

But YES become NO when it comes to to CHURCH TEACHINGS which can be replaced with JWS THEOLOGY and you still see that YES becomes NO.

Where is the DIFFERENCE?

The difference is your lack of comprehension , 1Tim 2:5 can be explained as relating to the New Covenant , have seen some commentaries even do this. Relating it with heb 9:15 Gods elect ones . so its when Watchtower does it that it becomes an issue

The difference between Bible students and majority others is while they believe everyone's destination is heaven, Bible teach the prospect of a new earth which many swept under the carpet . as relating to new covenant the ruled on earth are not King's . so in that sense Jesus mediatorship of new covenant is for some not everyone. But if someone teach everyone's destination is heaven, such ones would say it's for everyone. One key feature " those in the new covenant go to heaven as King and priest " .

But If Everyone either in new earth or heaven PRAYED through Jesus name as intercessor, in this context Jesus is a mediator of all , so they are not wrong to use the verse as you indicated above.

Context matters , its your inability to differentiate when an author discuss Jesus role as it relate to new covenant from Jesus role as intercessor in prayer . giving you issues !

achorladey:
Jozzy4: EVERYONE who is NOT a KING in that country are subjects. BECAUSE the KING Reign ON THEM.

Achorladey: So who among those in the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT that is not a KING?

Jozzy4: So your position at bold lacks credence,

Achorladey: The bold we are talking about here is

"YOUR ANSWER WILL BE NO BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE ARE ON EARTH"

Did you see that I raised this question below on your behalf which I answered with what you bolded.

This is the question......ARE THEY PART OF THE ONLY ONE AND NEW COVENANT?

So if you state the position there lacks credence, it's never my position, it's yours.

Jozzy4: the bible said they reign on EARTH . that makes EVERYONE on EARTH a SUBJECT .

Achorladey: Revelation 5:10 You have APPOINTED THEM as a KINGDOM and PRIESTS to SERVE our God, and THEY will REIGN on the EARTH.”

So how are they still SUBJECTS?

Use your sense, it didn't say they will reign " IN " earth. It says " ON " . when something is ON , it doesn't mean its inside of it. . Hebrews 3:1 says partakers of heavenly calling. Showing the destination from where they rule ON earth.

That same Greek word rendered " on " was translated " OVER " Matthew 18:13 . so NWT says " OVER " the earth . Jesus promise his disciple's that he will take them to be in his Fathers house, these are the same people he promised the hope of sitting on thrones as Kings. They ruled from Heaven , over earth

That makes those on earth - Subjects! Not kings

rottennaija:
The only problem with your rulers are that they are rulers that is kings and are also the kingdom, that is " an area that is controlled by a particular person or where a particular person is important". So according to Re 5:9,10, they are not just kings but are also a kingdom.

Re 5:10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

Unless of course, those ruled over on the earth are now the domain or area in which the king rules, those ruled over are the Kingdom.

To think you typed the above is a pity, real pity .

I underlined something above, Kingdom to WHO ? God .

God is their own ruler. But God is using them to rule OVER the earth.

That makes those earth Subjects to these God appointed kings and himself.

So those on earth are ruled over NOT Kings.

CAPTIVATOR:
You ? Do u grasp the sense ?


It's funny u talk about testing but had been struggling to grasp difference between a covenant for those called and Jesus mediating for all men.

U are equating it to the same thing, that's where your problem started. If an expression reads those called, it's logical that some are not called.

But another expression says " all men " . logically everyone either called or not.

With those differences , no sound Bible student will equate the two context of mediatorship.

Thank you Brother . Tomorrow they will say some people can't think independently yet they rely on apostate website to function , ask them anything they run to do copy and paste from there . But it's clear those teaching them didn't give them proper orientation .so refusal to eat from Jehovah's people, they still can't think independently , am still disappointed they rely on others.

Jozzy4:
Use your sense, it didn't say they will reign " IN " earth. It says " ON " . when something is ON , it doesn't mean its inside of it. . Hebrews 3:1 says partakers of heavenly calling. Showing the destination from where they rule ON earth.

That same Greek word rendered " on " was translated " OVER " Matthew 18:13 . so NWT says " OVER " the earth . Jesus promise his disciple's that he will take them to be in his Fathers house, these are the same people he promised the hope of sitting on thrones as Kings. They ruled from Heaven , over earth

That makes those on earth - Subjects! Not kings

Jozzy4: Use your sense,

Achorladey: If I had not been using it, you should by now not see me as an individual to discuss with.

Jozzy4: it didn't say they will reign " IN " earth. It says " ON ".

Achorladey: Did you see me say IN there in the scripture cited? Usual distraction.

Jozzy4: when something is ON, it doesn't mean its inside of it.

Achorladey: Hahahahaha. When something is ON another thing can it be said to be part of it or attached to it?

Jozzy4: Hebrews 3:1 says partakers of heavenly calling. Showing the destination from where they rule ON earth.

Achorladey: but it doesn't tell you it means from where the CALL to being made ROYALS came but DESTINATION. Na only DESTINATION you see?

Jozzy4: That same Greek word rendered " on " was translated " OVER " Matthew 18:13. so NWT says " OVER " the earth. Jesus promise HIS DISCIPLE'S that he will take them to be in his FATHERS HOUSE, these are the same people he PROMISED the HOPE of sitting on thrones as Kings. They ruled from Heaven , over earth
That makes those on earth - Subjects! Not kings

Achorladey: How many are the JESUS' DISCIPLES we are talking about here? Are they the ONES in the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT?

Those that are of the SUBJECTS are THEY part of the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT? How many are they?

achorladey:
Jozzy4: Use your sense,

Achorladey: If I had not been using it, you should by now not see me as an individual to discuss with.

Jozzy4: it didn't say they will reign " IN " earth. It says " ON ".

Achorladey: Did you see me say IN there in the scripture cited? Usual distraction.

Jozzy4: when something is ON, it doesn't mean its inside of it.

Achorladey: Hahahahaha. When something is ON another thing can it be said to be part of it or attached to it?

Jozzy4: Hebrews 3:1 says partakers of heavenly calling. Showing the destination from where they rule ON earth.

Achorladey: but it doesn't tell you it means from where the CALL to being made ROYALS came but DESTINATION. Na only DESTINATION you see?

Jozzy4: That same Greek word rendered " on " was translated " OVER " Matthew 18:13. so NWT says " OVER " the earth. Jesus promise HIS DISCIPLE'S that he will take them to be in his FATHERS HOUSE, these are the same people he PROMISED the HOPE of sitting on thrones as Kings. They ruled from Heaven , over earth


That makes those on earth - Subjects! Not kings

Achorladey: How many are the JESUS' DISCIPLES we are talking about here? Are they the ONES in the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT?

Those that are of the SUBJECTS are THEY part of the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT? How many are they?

Respond properly to the bold