EVIL (Curled from the book: An Introduction to Islamic philosophy, based on the works of Ayatullah Murtadha Mutahari)


INTRODUCTION

The problem of evil is an important one for philosophy. Evil that we see and experience, such as death, disease, calamities, pain, ugliness, injustice ...., satan, and evil-promoting self, are taken as evidence to show that the order of the world is not of the best design and Divine wisdom is not perfect. Were the world designed in the best possible manner and governed by the absolute wisdom of God, as religions claim, there should be nothing redundant, let alone harmful.

The concept of evil has pushed some to duality. They believe there are good things and bad things in the world. Bad and good are contraries. They cannot stem from a single source. So there are two origins: one originates evil and the other originates good. Obviously, duality can only be regarded as a solution, provided that we think of the origin of the world as an intelligent being enjoying will. If one does not believe in an origin for the world or believes that the origin of the world is not intelligent or does not possess will, one cannot opt for duality to solve the problem of evil. Hence, proponents of dual origin believe that a benevolent God, who can do what He wishes, must not create evil. Since evil exists, a malevolent origin always opting for evil has created it. So, the world has two origins.

The concept of evil has also given rise to criticisms of divine justice. Unfairness and discrimination in nature and in society are seen as counter evidence for Divine justice. Philosophies based on pessimism are fed by the observation of evil.

In dealing with the problem of evil, theist philosophers have focused on three questions inter alia:

1. What is the nature and source of evil?

2. Are good and evil separable in reality or equal in weight?

3. Are there any conceivable benefits in evil?


THE NATURE OF EVIL

Conceptual analysis reveals that evil stems from nonbeing. Whatever we consider evil is either nonbeing such as blindness, poverty, impotence, inequality...., death or else is the source of some nonbeing. Examples of the latter are obscene acts, robbery, violence of people's rights, tyranny, calamities, disasters, harmful insects, and immoral characteristics like arrogance ....

Death is lack of life, poverty is lack of wealth, decrepitude is lack of vitality of youth, impotence is lack of power, ugliness is lack of beauty. Harmful insects, pestilence, and disaster are bad, because they destroy life or other valuable worthy things. So, existence as such is not bad. Nonexistence as such is bad.

It is worth noting that nonbeing in general is not evil. If we imagine an entity that can potentially have perfection, but actually lacks it; then we consider the lack of that perfection as evil.

This analysis shows that dualism is no solution. Things are not really divided into good and bad. What we consider evil should not be classified amongst things that exist. They are either nonbeing or cause nonbeing; so, as beings they are good. Thus, we need not assume two origins. Objects we consider bad, are bad only in relation to the nonbeing they cause, not in themselves. So, their being evil is a relational property, rather than a genuine one. We can assume that one agent has created everything; what we call evil s either not created or if created, it is good in itself and involves specific nonbeing as a side effect.

Reacting to the criticisms levelled against perfect wisdom and the best design of the world ....

One reading says that, had there been a perfect wisdom who created and designed the universe, He should not have created evil. But evil is created. So, there is no perfect wisdom such as creator. Replying to this criticism is easy. Evil is not created.

Continuation...

Another reading is this: evil is not created. But, why did the perfect wisdom, assumed to have created the world, not create it in a manner that nonbeings and side effects of beings that we consider evil, disappear? Why did God not fill in all the gaps we count as evil? Why is life not permanent, wealth widespread and stable, power replaced for impotency, ugliness exchanged with beauty, pleasure instead of pain, happiness instead of calamities, and equality in place of discrimination?
As omnipotent and benevolent, why God not do this? Apparently we cannot answer these questions simply by invoking the idea that evil is not an existential entity. We need to rely on another analysis.


GOOD AND EVIL: INSEPARABLE

In another analysis of evil, we focus on why it is inevitable. The source of gaps in existence that we call evil, is one of two things. One, the limited capacity of matter for developing perfection that an object might have, but actually does not, is responsible for the emergence of evil. Two, the capacity of matter to receive either of the opposing forms, constitutes the other source of evil. Both these states are essential features of this world. The forms making up this world are contraries. This is essential for this level of being. Therefore, at every moment, every creature actually lacks some perfection. It is an illusion that matter stops receiving contrary forms through time. Also it is an illusion that matter can receive all forms at once. Forms are contraries, hence they cannot be received simultaneously by one matter. When one of the contraries is realized, the other is pending. This originates the gap. So, gaps in the natural world are essential features inseparable from this world. This is how this level of being is. Therefore, we have to choose one horn or the other, of a dilemma: either evil must exist, or the world must not exist.

Here, we face another question: does evil surpass good or vice versa? Fire burns. In certain circumstances, where fire exists, it does a great job. At other times it causes harm... Now, the question is this: is fire, subsequently, more beneficial or more harmful? If it is more beneficial, for instance, because the whole of civilization depends on it, then we should opt either to have fire and civilization or to stay immune from harm and give up civilized life. Which choice is rational, opting for more benefits blended with some evil or sacrificing more benefits in order to avoid the lesser evil?

Philosophers (e.g Aristotle) say we can hypothetically divide objects into five groups: objects that are pure good, objects that are pure evil, objects that are half good and half evil, objects that are more good and less evil and finally, objects that are more evil and less good. Then, they say: in the real world, there is no object belonging to second, third or fifth group. All that exists is either entirely good or more good than bad. This analysis shows that we cannot get rid of evil in this world. So, a better design for the world is not possible.


FUNCTIONS OF EVIL

Not only is evil inseparable and eliminable from this world, but it also has important functions. Some evil helps in the spiritual development of man. Death is the transition to the next life. A walnut is first a combination of shell and nut. Gradually,  the plant grows and the nut separates from the shell more and more. It reaches a point when the shell is no longer needed. It must be broken for the nut to emerge. The body to the soul is like the shell to the nut.

Clashes and contraries allow for progress. If a form received by matter is permanent, the object cannot change. It remains fixed forever. This hinders progress. Development in this world passes through deconstruction and reconstruction. Therefore, philosophers say: if not for contraries, the origin of being would not constantly expand His bounty, in spite of His generosity (lawla al-taddad lama dawam al-fayd 'an al-mabda al-jawad).

Continue...

Evil and deficiencies play a very important a role in driving things to move forward towards perfection. According to traditional philosophers, natural movements are motivated by forceful ones. Unless an opposing force drives an object far from its natural locus, it will not have a tendency to move back naturally to its locus. Calamities, difficulties, pain, and suffering prepare for maturity, strength, genius, and purification. Without hunger and thirst, satiation is meaningless. Where no sins and indulgence are possible, piety makes no sense. No rivalry, no movement and competition. Without wars, progress and civilization would not have flourished. If not for political suppression, liberating movements, as the manifestations of humanity, would not emerge. Where injustice rules, justice and sacrifice for it shine. Want is the mother of movement and endeavor.

Keep in mind that the world of nature gradually moves to perfection and develops constantly as one of its essential features and recalling that development and movement take place only due to what we call evil, we can understand the important functions of evil. In other words, looking at defects microscopically, they are evil and looking at them macroscopically, they are grounds for all we know as good.

First of all the statement "Allah do whatever he wishes" is like saying Allah do meaningless and unreasonable things but then he's expecting humans to understand him for his meaningless doing.

There's paradox when God is said to have created evil or allow evil to exist but he's still a good God. Through out the Quran we can read how Allah hate evil and will punish anyone for it, but let look at it this way, why is he angry when he knows these things will happen? You know evil will exist before creation and will punish anyone for it, you planned everything, you later made evil exist and then get angry for what you already know and responsible of, is God angry for his mistakes or his incapability to stop evil?

If God is capable of stopping evil, he should have done that from onset since he hate evil and doesn't want it but then he's not willing to stop evil, he must be malevolent!

Good and evil makes life more meaningful, that will make paradise meaningless, God initial plan is to put humans in a world where there's no evil, a perfect world but something led to another thing evil exist and God got angry(funny) and sent humans to another world where evil exist. The question is did God before creation knew all this will happen? Is it part of his plan? If yes, why is he cursing Satan here and there and want to punish his creation?

Evil is not created? Is this an apology for God and an excuse for God? So when it comes to evil, it's not created because of some meaningless and illogical reasons. If evil is not created then where did it come from? If evil is not created then God is not the creator of all?

As Epicurus said,

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

tintingz:
First of all the statement "Allah do whatever he wishes" is like saying Allah do meaningless and unreasonable things but then he's expecting humans to understand him for his meaningless doing.

Yes, Quran says, "Allah do whatever He wills" because He has power to do so? No, because, Quran says, "He is Wise". He exercise His works with wisdom. He doesn't partake in futile or oppressive work.

tintingz:

There's paradox when God is said to have created evil or allow evil to exist but he's still a good God. Through out the Quran we can read how Allah hate evil and will punish anyone for it, but let look at it this way, why is he angry when he knows these things will happen? You know evil will exist before creation and will punish anyone for it, you planned everything, you later made evil exist and then get angry for what you already know and responsible of, is God angry for his mistakes or his incapability to stop evil?

God, angry? He does not have human features. Anger is only a feature of created beings. What is used is "God does not love evil doers". Why?

1. Evil doers drag themselves to animal level while He has given them intellect. Yet, they let their base desires over took them instead of using their intellect.

2. They cause injuries to others.

# Man is given freedom to choose between right and wrong, good and evil. He is not force to choose a path. This is one of the grace of God. What will he choose might be known to God but that does not meant He forced him. If he is forced, then power and ability to choose given to him becomes useless. Having full knowledge about something doesn't mean you cause or force it to happen.

tintingz:

If God is capable of stopping evil, he should have done that from onset since he hate evil and doesn't want it but then he's not willing to stop evil, he must be malevolent!

Good and evil makes life more meaningful, that will make paradise meaningless, God initial plan is to put humans in a world where there's no evil, a perfect world but something led to another thing evil exist and God got angry(funny) and sent humans to another world where evil exist. The question is did God before creation knew all this will happen? Is it part of his plan? If yes, why is he cursing Satan here and there and want to punish his creation?

Evil is not created? Is this an apology for God and an excuse for God? So when it comes to evil, it's not created because of some meaningless and illogical reasons. If evil is not created then where did it come from? If evil is not created then God is not the creator of all?

I suggest you read the op submission well. Evil is relative. It does not exist on its own. On the other hand, without what you call "evil", there can be no progress.

Stop been pigheaded. Read the op with intellectual understanding.

AlBaqir:


Yes, Quran says, "Allah do whatever He wills" because He has power to do so? No, because, Quran says, "He is Wise". He exercise His works with wisdom. He doesn't partake in futile or oppressive work.

Because the Quran said something does not mean it's logical.

God doing whatever he wills or wishes on his creation is like doing meaningless or unreasonable things and we should just accept it. It's like a tyrant leader doing meaningless things.

God, angry? He does not have human features. Anger is only a feature of created beings.

Allah is actually an anthropomorphic deity, he get angry, happy, sad, disappointed, sit, talk, think, plan, emotional etc.

The Quran mention "Wrath of Allah" what does that mean?

What is used is "God does not love evil doers". Why?

1. Evil doers drag themselves to animal level while He has given them intellect. Yet, they let their base desires over took them instead of using their intellect.

2. They cause injuries to others.

Allah who's able to see the future and outcome of everything, why didn't he stop evil from onset?

You're not answering the main question here.

# Man is given freedom to choose between right and wrong, good and evil. He is not force to choose a path. This is one of the grace of God. What will he choose might be known to God but that does not meant He forced him. If he is forced, then power and ability to choose given to him becomes useless. Having full knowledge about something doesn't mean you cause or force it to happen.

Did Allah also destined man's life?

If Allah can know my end before creation, is that not my destiny, did I choose it?

I suggest you read the op submission well. Evil is relative. It does not exist on its own. On the other hand, without what you call "evil", there can be no progress.

Allah already gave his own applications of what evil is so let's work with that or better still let's work with general definition of evil?

I stated it earlier that good and evil makes life meaningful, is paradise meaningful?

Stop been pigheaded. Read the op with intellectual understanding.

You don't have to insult to prove a point.

tintingz:
Because the Quran said something does not mean it's logical.

God doing whatever he wills or wishes on his creation is like doing meaningless or unreasonable things and we should just accept it. It's like a tyrant leader doing meaningless things.

You are not reading to understand. You simply want to argue. I have stated clearly that Quran itself submits, "God is wise" meaning He does not do thing but with wisdom. He never engage in meaningless work. Such is an attribute of ignorant not wise one.

tintingz:

Allah is actually an anthropomorphic deity, he get angry, happy, sad, disappointed, sit, talk, think, plan, emotional etc.

The Quran mention "Wrath of Allah" what does that mean?

Allah who's able to see the future and outcome of everything, why didn't he stop evil from onset?

You're not answering the main question here.

Did Allah also destined man's life?

If Allah can know my end before creation, is that not my destiny, did I choose it?

Allah already gave his own applications of what evil is so let's work with that or better still let's work with general definition of evil?

I stated it earlier that good and evil makes life meaningful, is paradise meaningful?



You don't have to insult to prove a point.

# Allah is not anthropomorphic. Quran says, "There is nothing like Him".

If certain anthropomorphic attributes are used to depict Him, obviously those attributes are metaphorical not literal. Even in all languages metaphor are used for more understanding but that will never make it real.

# Why didn't Allah stops evil? Again, don't be lazy and stubborn. Concise answer with philosophical arguments have been given at the OP. Either you read or you keep on going in circle for argument sake.

# Destiny are of two kind: changeable and unchangeable. God will never ask or punishment you on unchangeable kind of Destiny. The changeable, you write it yourself. You design it. Whatever comes out of it is your responsibility. Yet, He is merciful providing all things for you to choose wisely.

# Is paradise meaningful? It's like asking is salary meaningful for a wage earner or harvest meaningful for farmers.

Abeg, it's not agidi. If you don't have something reasonable to say, let rational people contribute.

AlBaqir:


You are not reading to understand. You simply want to argue. I have stated clearly that Quran itself submits, "God is wise" meaning He does not do thing but with wisdom. He never engage in meaningless work. Such is an attribute of ignorant not wise one.

Again, you don't only prove from same book that promote your God, that's circular reasoning fallacy, you have to give logical reason why your God is wise.

# Allah is not anthropomorphic. Quran says, "There is nothing like Him".

If certain anthropomorphic attributes are used to depict Him, obviously those attributes are metaphorical not literal. Even in all languages metaphor are used for more understanding but that will never make it real.

Wether metaphorical or not he's still displaying anthropomorphic characters making him anthropomorphic deity, there's no other way to express his emotions than to be anthropomorphic, even before creation he's anthropomorphic.

# Why didn't Allah stops evil? Again, don't be lazy and stubborn. Concise answer with philosophical arguments have been given at the OP. Either you read or you keep on going in circle for argument sake.

Why not quote out where you answered that?

# Destiny are of two kind: changeable and unchangeable. God will never ask or punishment you on unchangeable kind of Destiny. The changeable, you write it yourself. You design it. Whatever comes out of it is your responsibility. Yet, He is merciful providing all things for you to choose wisely.

Ok, the changeable one, did God before creation knew about the changing of destiny?

Because using the word "changeable destiny" to an all-knowing God and a perfect planner is a paradox!

# Is paradise meaningful? It's like asking is salary meaningful for a wage earner or harvest meaningful for farmers.

Salary does not last long, you struggle to get another one, in paradise one will be there for eternity, no struggle, no bad moment, just good time and enjoyment for eternity, again is this a meaningful world?

Abeg, it's not agidi. If you don't have something reasonable to say, let rational people contribute.

What other rational response do you expect apart from this?

So you're basically saying;

No such thing as absolute evil, there is good in all.

Evil is the absence of good.

Evil is relative term.

Evil and good have to exist together for the world to exist.

I think you will have a problem defending some of these under theism. I have seen your critique of my view on theism and Rh factor and I find it very one sided and unidimensional. You will have a hard time convincing atheists and even some theists, that despite all the hindrances and harms this antigen have posed in pregnancy and blood transfusion, it is definitely the product of an all Wise.

Your analogy on the good and bad of fire is agreeable. It won't fit for Rh factor though because whatever good this antigen serve, a case can be made that an all wise creator should have modified it to nullify any potential for harm. Pharmacists, Engineer etc do it all the time, they manufacture and continue to modify their products till the highest benefit to risk ratio in utility is attained.

God is omnipotent, omniscient, omni-benevolent and merciful, before creation he could see the future till the end, he knows what the world would be if evil exist and he knows he's going to punish people for eternity for it, infact he knows those that will be punished, he has the power to correct things but he's willing not to but hey he's still merciful. All praises to the all wise, he's wise indeed.

I still don't understand how this make sense to the theists, are they having problem with reasoning?

usermane:
So you're basically saying;

No such thing as absolute evil, there is good in all.

Evil is the absence of good.

Evil is relative term.

Evil and good have to exist together for the world to exist.

I think you will have a problem defending some of these under theism. I have seen your critique of my view on theism and Rh factor and I find it very one sided and unidimensional. You will have a hard time convincing atheists and even some theists, that despite all the hindrances and harms this antigen have posed in pregnancy and blood transfusion, it is definitely the product of an all Wise.

Your analogy on the good and bad of fire is agreeable. It won't fit for Rh factor though because whatever good this antigen serve, a case can be made that an all wise creator should have modified it to nullify any potential for harm. Pharmacists, Engineer etc do it all the time, they manufacture and continue to modify their products till the highest benefit to risk ratio in utility is attained.

Try and read the origin of rhesus disease itself I.e how it was first discovered via blood transfusion.

Man is a complex being. We are yet to know our reality till date. We still study. Today man has learnt we are not compatible blood-wise (as in other things too).

Before this disease can occur, certain factors have to come up. Meaning it does not exist on its own. Something brought it up. And at the end via its occurrence, we have learnt more and progress. That is life.

I throw maggi enter allah yansh

tintingz:
Because the Quran said something does not mean it's logical.

God doing whatever he wills or wishes on his creation is like doing meaningless or unreasonable things and we should just accept it. It's like a tyrant leader doing meaningless things.

Allah is actually an anthropomorphic deity, he get angry, happy, sad, disappointed, sit, talk, think, plan, emotional etc.

The Quran mention "Wrath of Allah" what does that mean?

Allah who's able to see the future and outcome of everything, why didn't he stop evil from onset?

You're not answering the main question here.

Did Allah also destined man's life?

If Allah can know my end before creation, is that not my destiny, did I choose it?

Allah already gave his own applications of what evil is so let's work with that or better still let's work with general definition of evil?

I stated it earlier that good and evil makes life meaningful, is paradise meaningful?



You don't have to insult to prove a point.

If there are no evil,will you know what is good?No.You won't coz you won't know it exists.

AlBaqir:


You are not reading to understand. You simply want to argue. I have stated clearly that Quran itself submits, "God is wise" meaning He does not do thing but with wisdom. He never engage in meaningless work. Such is an attribute of ignorant not wise one.




# Allah is not anthropomorphic. Quran says, "There is nothing like Him".

If certain anthropomorphic attributes are used to depict Him, obviously those attributes are metaphorical not literal. Even in all languages metaphor are used for more understanding but that will never make it real.

# Why didn't Allah stops evil? Again, don't be lazy and stubborn. Concise answer with philosophical arguments have been given at the OP. Either you read or you keep on going in circle for argument sake.

# Destiny are of two kind: changeable and unchangeable. God will never ask or punishment you on unchangeable kind of Destiny. The changeable, you write it yourself. You design it. Whatever comes out of it is your responsibility. Yet, He is merciful providing all things for you to choose wisely.

# Is paradise meaningful? It's like asking is salary meaningful for a wage earner or harvest meaningful for farmers.

Abeg, it's not agidi. If you don't have something reasonable to say, let rational people contribute.

Evil exists as -ve while Goodness exists as +ve,they go hand in hand,and actually rely on one another. That's how this life is,one cannot do without the other and that's why there are rules n regulations. You might say what about neutral-please note,we aren't dealing with Electricity

sulasa07:

Evil exists as -ve while Goodness exists as +ve,they go hand in hand,and actually rely on one another. That's how this life is,one cannot do without the other and that's why there are rules n regulations. You might say what about neutral-please note,we aren't dealing with Electricity

What you tag evil is called and label so from one smaller perspective. It is intact good in an elaborate perspective. Example of fire is cited. It can burn things to ashes, destroy, kill etc. But fire on its own is a perfect creation. It is only when you defy it that effect resulted from it becomes "evil". Without fire, man can never be progressive today.

Another good example is knife. It's "creation" is perfect. When it is sharpened, it becomes more perfect. It will continue to be in this state of goodness. It cannot cause any effect on its own. Man decide what to use it for.

Poison of a snake is not a poison or evil to it. In fact it is part of what make the snake alive. It is good to its creation. However, it is unfavorable to something else.

AlBaqir:


What you tag evil is called and label so from one smaller perspective. It is intact good in an elaborate perspective. Example of fire is cited. It can burn things to ashes, destroy, kill etc. But fire on its own is a perfect creation. It is only when you defy it that effect resulted from it becomes "evil". Without fire, man can never be progressive today.

Whos talking about fire,you and I know fire,water,air,sand etc have good sides and bad sides,but evil is when you kill innocent people,fraud people,rape,kidnap for ritual or ransom,sell weapon to thieves and terrorists and killer.The likes of fire,water,air,sand do a lot of good for us,but when they turn against us,it's natural disaster or mistake, so they are not evil.

sulasa07:

Whos talking about fire,you and I know fire,water,air,sand etc have good sides and bad sides,but evil is when you kill innocent people,fraud people,rape,kidnap for ritual or ransom,sell weapon to thieves and terrorists and killer.The likes of fire,water,air,sand do a lot of good for us,but when they turn against us,it's natural disaster or mistake, so they are not evil.

Those things are the bad sides(evil) of we humans too

@ OP, it is evidently clear that your submission is tailored to suit your argument on evil. From a broader perspective, the questions that are actually begging for answers are:

Some of the attributes of God is all powerful, omniscient, all merciful.

If God is all powerful, why can't he take away evil completely. Some people argue that Good and evil must work hand in hand, however this negates the attributes of God as omniscient and Holy.

If God is all merciful, why do people still die from various natural disasters like earthquake, tornado, tsunami, avalanche etc. Some people argue that man's actions causes all these disasters. Even if man causes all these natural disasters, is God not regarded as all merciful? Infact some atheist sees God as a sadist father who takes delight in the suffering of his children.

sulasa07:

Whos talking about fire,you and I know fire,water,air,sand etc have good sides and bad sides,but evil is when you kill innocent people,fraud people,rape,kidnap for ritual or ransom,sell weapon to thieves and terrorists and killer.The likes of fire,water,air,sand do a lot of good for us,but when they turn against us,it's natural disaster or mistake, so they are not evil.

so much

sulasa07:

If there are no evil,will you know what is good?No.You won't coz you won't know it exists.

I don't have problem with evil as it's part of the chaos in the universe, but there's problem when Muslims said Allah is all-good, all-merciful but then he created evil.

That's paradox.

Jazakumullah khair

sulasa07:

Whos talking about fire,you and I know fire,water,air,sand etc have good sides and bad sides,but evil is when you kill innocent people,fraud people,rape,kidnap for ritual or ransom,sell weapon to thieves and terrorists and killer.The likes of fire,water,air,sand do a lot of good for us,but when they turn against us,it's natural disaster or mistake, so they are not evil.

First, there is nothing like "evil" on its own. It doesn't exist independently. It is usually effect from certain causes or reactions that are not meant to be together.

Second, man is created and given freewill which is to be guided by intellect and other externals. He can on his own freewill effect evil. That should not be blame on God.

BumbleDevil:
@ OP, it is evidently clear that your submission is tailored to suit your argument on evil. From a broader perspective, the questions that are actually begging for answers are:

Some of the attributes of God is all powerful, omniscient, all merciful.

If God is all powerful, why can't he take away evil completely. Some people argue that Good and evil must work hand in hand, however this negates the attributes of God as omniscient and Holy.

Kindly refer to OP and endeavor to read to understand. All those ambiguities have been answered already. You can agree or disagree (with philosophical arguments) on the submissions.

BumbleDevil:

If God is all merciful, why do people still die from various natural disasters like earthquake, tornado, tsunami, avalanche etc. Some people argue that man's actions causes all these disasters. Even if man causes all these natural disasters, is God not regarded as all merciful? Infact some atheist sees God as a sadist father who takes delight in the suffering of his children.

If God prevent man from his "evil doings", then what is the essence of intellect and freewill given to him?

According to religious philosophy, part of the essence of man's creation is perfection. Man is first created perfect in his quiditty; then he falls as he try to make use of his freewill and intellect. He will continue to work to rebuild his perfection or destroy it.

On the other hand, religion believe life is not ended with death. With death, another life opens.

BumbleDevil:
@ OP, it is evidently clear that your submission is tailored to suit your argument on evil. From a broader perspective, the questions that are actually begging for answers are:

Some of the attributes of God is all powerful, omniscient, all merciful.

If God is all powerful, why can't he take away evil completely. Some people argue that Good and evil must work hand in hand, [b]however this negates the attributes of God as omniscient and Holy. [/b]1

If God is all merciful, why do people still die from various natural disasters like earthquake, tornado, tsunami, avalanche etc. Some people argue that man's actions causes all these disasters. Even if man causes all these natural disasters, is God not regarded as all merciful? Infact some atheist sees God as a sadist father who takes delight in the suffering of his children.

Indeed no doubt God is all powerful Creator. He created everything and nothing is beyond His grasp. He created both what you term good and evil. But the actual definition of good and evil should only rightfully come from Him because He is the Creator. He created the devil and all the powerful evil forces.
1. No this does not negate His attributes as omniscient rather it confirm it.

You see for all His creations He decreed death and this reconfirm His firm grip over all His creations because no one can escape it. It also confirm Him as all Powerful. No one has ever escape His grip. He define what is good and what is evil. He give all His creations respite both the good and the evil doers out of His mercy so that the good doers can continue to do good while the evil doers have the chance of repenting.

Since He decreed everything to die then it is immaterial whether the death is by earthquake, tsunami, tornado, avalanche, plane crash, or during sleep etc.
If man causes the disaster God has every right to punish or to forgive. You see He has already made it clear what is good and what is evil and also warn man not to do evil. Not only that, He told man that if he does evil he will be recompense with evil aboard in the hereafter. Despite all these if man do evil and repent God is always willing to forgive him. Indeed He is all merciful.

Even death is not the end but beginning of another life - the hereafter. In the hereafter God will address the issues of all the evil doers and will also make clear whatever that is not clear now.

God's message is very clear believe in Him and act righteous deeds as per His revelation. And He give man freewill, those who chose to believe and obey Him will be rewarded while those who chose to disbelieve and disobey Him will be punish.

Or do you expect God to treat those who disbelieve and disobey Him same as those who believe and obey Him? He already warned us that He will not do that.

AlBaqir:


Yes, Quran says, "Allah do whatever He wills" because He has power to do so? No, because, Quran says, "He is Wise". He exercise His works with wisdom. He doesn't partake in futile or oppressive work.




God, angry? He does not have human features. Anger is only a feature of created beings. What is used is "God does not love evil doers". Why?

1. Evil doers drag themselves to animal level while He has given them intellect. Yet, they let their base desires over took them instead of using their intellect.

2. They cause injuries to others.

# Man is given freedom to choose between right and wrong, good and evil. He is not force to choose a path. This is one of the grace of God. What will he choose might be known to God but that does not meant He forced him. If he is forced, then power and ability to choose given to him becomes useless. Having full knowledge about something doesn't mean you cause or force it to happen.




I suggest you read the op submission well. Evil is relative. It does not exist on its own. On the other hand, without what you call "evil", there can be no progress.

Stop been pigheaded. Read the op with intellectual understanding.

My brother, just simply ignore the dunce.
He has proved to be too self assured about is illogics and haphazard premises that makes him sees his conclusions as the final say regarding matters of our deen.
I. have confronted him in a thread sometime ago and he showed how shallow he is to understand salient issue after exhausting all logical examples which any logical person would submit yet he became more haughty.

I just left in that thread knowing he believes in his own made up illogics.

AlBaqir:


Yes, Quran says, "Allah do whatever He wills" because He has power to do so? No, because, Quran says, "He is Wise". He exercise His works with wisdom. He doesn't partake in futile or oppressive work.




God, angry? He does not have human features. Anger is only a feature of created beings. What is used is "God does not love evil doers". Why?

1. Evil doers drag themselves to animal level while He has given them intellect. Yet, they let their base desires over took them instead of using their intellect.

2. They cause injuries to others.

# Man is given freedom to choose between right and wrong, good and evil. He is not force to choose a path. This is one of the grace of God. What will he choose might be known to God but that does not meant He forced him. If he is forced, then power and ability to choose given to him becomes useless. Having full knowledge about something doesn't mean you cause or force it to happen.




I suggest you read the op submission well. Evil is relative. It does not exist on its own. On the other hand, without what you call "evil", there can be no progress.

Stop been pigheaded. Read the op with intellectual understanding.

My brother, just simply ignore the dunce.
He has proved to be too self assured about is illogics and haphazard premises that makes him sees his conclusions as the final say regarding matters of our deen.
I. have confronted him in a thread sometime ago and he showed how shallow he is to understand salient issue after exhausting all logical examples which any logical person would submit yet he became more haughty.

I just left him in that thread knowing he only believes in his own made up illogics.

BumbleDevil:
@ OP, it is evidently clear that your submission is tailored to suit your argument on evil. From a broader perspective, the questions that are actually begging for answers are:

Some of the attributes of God is all powerful, omniscient, all merciful.

If God is all powerful, why can't he take away evil completely. Some people argue that Good and evil must work hand in hand, however this negates the attributes of God as omniscient and Holy.

If God is all merciful, why do people still die from various natural disasters like earthquake, tornado, tsunami, avalanche etc. Some people argue that man's actions causes all these disasters. Even if man causes all these natural disasters, is God not regarded as all merciful? Infact some atheist sees God as a sadist father who takes delight in the suffering of his children.

Everything boils down to understanding life itself in its different shades.
What you people do is project yourself into God's "thinking" (if we can call it that for lack of a better word) by trying to dictate to him what he should and shouldn't do.

God is all powerful because nothing happens outside His ever present and ever encompassing Will both on the inner and outer dimension of things.

Saying God is evil because he allows what is evil to happen is like saying a teacher is evil for setting certain questions in an examination which he already knows and has taught his students,but it is now left for the students to answer it when they have sufficiently prepared for the exam or fail due to lack of their seriousness of their part.

God does what He wills according to what suits Him from his knowledge not how we think of him and want Him to act out His will the way we see or want it.
Is like your toddler crying over a razor blade you took from him or her because he sees your action as evil but not knowing you have a better understanding of the razor blade that it could cut him.

There are several examples to pick from to establish that what we see as evil are not necessarily evil in and of themselves in some cases.
Note:I said in some cases, not all cases;but even at that, because of our inability to understand how life works we see everything unpleasant that happens to us as "evil."

There is story about Moses and a man called al-khidri in our Qur'aan.

The story goes thus that this man and prophet Moses set about on a journey to teach Moses about an aspect of life that was not clearly known to him

When they got to a town were it required that one boards a boat for him to cross over to the other side they fortunately got a free sail from some young men who owned a boat.
As they were sailing across the river al-khidr stood up picked up a axe and removed a plank from the boat thereby disfiguring the boat and almost immediately Moses started scolding the man for destroying the boat of this young men who only sought to help them only to be rewarded in "kind" by al-khidri "evil actions"

Many other things happened apart from this;but al-khidr eventually explained to Moses that the reason for his action were borne out of the fact that there was a certain tyrant in the other part of the town they were going to ,who has the habit of seizing boats that catches his fancy hence the reason for disfiguring the boat so it will look unpleasant to the king so he does not seize it from these poor boys who only use their boat as a source of lively hood.
To you, al-khidri's action was pure evil, but a looking at the wider picture we see that this "evil action" actually served a greater purpose which was far better than the "good condition" of the boat.

Would it be better if al-khidri left the boat untouched and making but easy for the king to seize the boat and thereby denying the source of lively hood of those young men?

or is it not preferable to cause a "harm" that will result in good of those using it.

Remember, if the Americans space craft didn't go up in flames when they tried launching theirs in the 60s or there about do you think they could have been able to reach the height they reached launching a rocket into the moon(though many people are arguing this)with Neil Armstrong being the first man to walk on the moon.

Things happen, but they are things that do happen that are beyond our mental faculties.

tintingz:
I don't have problem with evil, there's problem when Muslims said Allah is all-good, all-merciful but then he created evil.

That's paradox.

I think this should put things in its proper perspective.

There is story about Moses and a man called al-khidri in our Qur'aan.
The story goes thus that this man and prophet Moses set about on a journey to teach Moses about an aspect of life that was not clearly known to him

When they got to a town were it required that one boards a boat for him to cross over to the other side they fortunately , got a free sail from some young men who owned a boat.
As they were sailing across the river al-khidr stood up picked up a axe and removed a plank from the boat thereby disfiguring the boat and almost immediately Moses started scolding the man for destroying the boat of this young men who only sought to help them only to be rewarded in "kind" by al-khidri "evil actions"

Many other things happened apart from this;but al-khidr eventually explained to Moses that the reason for his action were borne out of the fact that there was a certain tyrant in the other part of the town they were going to ,who has the habit of seizing boats that catches his fancy hence the reason for disfiguring the boat so it will look unpleasant to the king so he does not seize it from these poor boys who only use their boat as a source of lively hood.

To you, I believe you will see al-khidri's action as pure evil, but looking at the wider picture we see that this "evil action" actually served a greater purpose which was far better than the "good condition" of the boat.

Would it be better if al-khidri left the boat untouched and making it but easy for the king to seize the boat and thereby denying the source of lively hood of those young men?

or is it not preferable to cause a "harm" or an "evil" so that it will result in good of those using it.


God is All merciful ,All powerful is in no doubt, but doubters whom are yet to sit down and ask themselves how did I come to such level of awareness:of knowing this and that.
Of questioning this and what?

The funny aspect in all this is, atheist who don't believe in the existence of God still blame God for evil.
Is this not stupidity?

You blame what you deny it's existence.

AlBaqir:


First, there is nothing like "evil" on its own. It doesn't exist independently. It is usually effect from certain causes or reactions that are not meant to be together.

Second, man is created and given freewill which is to be guided by intellect and other externals. He can on his own freewill effect evil. That should not be blame on God.

If you trace the chain back, evil came from who? You said evil doesn't exist independently, now trace it back to it single source.

And secondly, when there's an omniscient God that planned everything, freewill is an illusion, infact its a paradox I've proven countless time.

Khaleell001:


I think this should put things in its proper perspective.

There is story about Moses and a man called al-khidri in our Qur'aan.
The story goes thus that this man and prophet Moses set about on a journey to teach Moses about an aspect of life that was not clearly known to him

When they got to a town were it required that one boards a boat for him to cross over to the other side they fortunately , got a free sail from some young men who owned a boat.
As they were sailing across the river al-khidr stood up picked up a axe and removed a plank from the boat thereby disfiguring the boat and almost immediately Moses started scolding the man for destroying the boat of this young men who only sought to help them only to be rewarded in "kind" by al-khidri "evil actions"

Many other things happened apart from this;but al-khidr eventually explained to Moses that the reason for his action were borne out of the fact that there was a certain tyrant in the other part of the town they were going to ,who has the habit of seizing boats that catches his fancy hence the reason for disfiguring the boat so it will look unpleasant to the king so he does not seize it from these poor boys who only use their boat as a source of lively hood.

To you, I believe you will see al-khidri's action as pure evil, but looking at the wider picture we see that this "evil action" actually served a greater purpose which was far better than the "good condition" of the boat.

Would it be better if al-khidri left the boat untouched and making it but easy for the king to seize the boat and thereby denying the source of lively hood of those young men?

or is it not preferable to cause a "harm" or an "evil" so that it will result in good of those using it.


God is All merciful ,All powerful is in no doubt, but doubters whom are yet to sit down and ask themselves how did I come to such level of awareness:of knowing this and that.
Of questioning this and what?

The funny aspect in all this is, atheist who don't believe in the existence of God still blame God for evil.
Is this not stupidity?

You blame what you deny it's existence.

Point of correction, atheists don't blame God for evil, it's silly to blame an imaginary entity.

The argument which is "the problem of evil" is pointing out the absurdity and paradox of God being all-good, all-knowing and all-powerful.

The evil I'm talking about is the evil Allah hate in the Qur'an, if he hates it how come he allow it to exist when he has all the power to stop it?