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Christian Prince Explains Islam - Religion (15) - Nairaland

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Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by Empiree: 9:08am On May 31, 2019
true2god:
The word 'MUCH CONTRADICTIONS' have become so complex that you have to start a linguistic class to make it clear to us. This is desperation at it peak. We have to enrol on a Yoruba language class to understand Arabic language translated into English by over 6 specialist in Arabic language. You are very confused.

As a matter of fact you have ignored the contradictions in Hafs and warsh Quran,, :maka why omo iyami'? I equally did a screenshot of these contradictions for you to do your independent verification but you pretended you never saw it, 'maka why nau'? I taught your 'gloooriozzzz' al-quran was sent down from heaven and personally handed over to rasool, and was also perfectly preserved, without ANY contradiction. This is what my Muslim friends told me when I was in secondary school and I believed you, at one point in your life, had also shared this falsehood.

'Abeg make una park well make I see road pass'. Thank God for Mr Bukhari and Mr Majjah for exposing guys.
smh bro. Yes, you have linguistic comprehension problem
Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by sagenaija: 11:13am On May 31, 2019
Empiree:
you don't understand Arabic, do you?. Your will be waste of time for me should we go further from here.

You don't understand Arabic needless to say Quran, do you?

You sound like someone trying hard to keep afloat in water!
Readers of this discussion will be laughing hard at you right now! grin grin grin

I tried to make it as simple as possible for you but your INDOCTRINATION
has so dealt with your brain that you SWITCHED OFF your rational thinking
and turned to your emotion.

"You don't understand Arabic!" is a well beaten Moslem argument when they
are unable to answer a question or simply refuse to accept the reality.
Some refer to it as the "LANGUAGE ARGUMENT".

But what i asked you (who apparently understand Arabic) was simply this:
Did Hafs and Warsh use the SAME ARABIC WORD in that same verse of the Koran?

Why are you EVADING answering this simple question?

2 Likes

Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by true2god: 4:32pm On May 31, 2019
Empiree:
smh bro. Yes, you have linguistic comprehension problem
So in order words you are helping Allah to clear up the inconsistencies in the Quran. That's a nice job and Allah will be proud of you. You just decided to ignore the contradictions between the warsh and the Hafs Quran. Are you afraid of touching it? Or are you also confused like Allah?

I begged you to explained the hadith below;

Narrated Aisha: I used to look down upon those ladies who had given themselves to Allah's Apostle and I used to say, "Can a lady give herself (to a man)?" But when Allah revealed: "You (O Muhammad) can postpone (the turn of) whom you will of them (your wives), and you may receive any of them whom you will; and there is no blame on you if you invite one whose turn you have set aside (temporarily).' (33.51) I said (to the Prophet),
"I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires."
(Sahih Bukhari 6:60:311).

You can chose between the first and second request: anyone convenient for you.

Asalama lekum!

1 Like

Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by Empiree: 5:02pm On May 31, 2019
true2god:
So in order words you are helping Allah to clear up the inconsistencies in the Quran. That's a nice job and Allah will be proud of you. You just decided to ignore the contradictions between the warsh and the Hafs Quran. Are you afraid of touching it? Or are you also confused like Allah?

I begged you to explained the hadith below;

Narrated Aisha: I used to look down upon those ladies who had given themselves to Allah's Apostle and I used to say, "Can a lady give herself (to a man)?" But when Allah revealed: "You (O Muhammad) can postpone (the turn of) whom you will of them (your wives), and you may receive any of them whom you will; and there is no blame on you if you invite one whose turn you have set aside (temporarily).' (33.51) I said (to the Prophet),
"I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires."
(Sahih Bukhari 6:60:311).

You can chose between the first and second request: anyone convenient for you.

Asalama lekum!
reas on your claim is so daft is that you are quoting source from outside Quran to show "inconsistencies" in the Quran but you didnt actually point out alleged inconsistencies from Quran itself. When when we claim there are inconsistencies in your bible we quoted directly from the bible not your cardinals. Honestly i just don't have time for you guys right now. Maybe after ramadan especially on Hafs etc. You and the proCP dude understand nothing
Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by true2god: 8:26am On Jun 01, 2019
Empiree:
reas on your claim is so daft is that you are quoting source from outside Quran to show "inconsistencies" in the Quran but you didnt actually point out alleged inconsistencies from Quran itself. When when we claim there are inconsistencies in your bible we quoted directly from the bible not your cardinals. Honestly i just don't have time for you guys right now. Maybe after ramadan especially on Hafs etc. You and the proCP dude understand nothing
What difference does it make if you respond to the 'Hafs and warsh' questions now or after ramadan? Do you need enough time to do your research and equally ask your sheik? That's OK by me as long as you come up with something reasonable, which I doubt you can.

The contradictions we are dealing with now is the 'phase 1', that is, among different readings (like Hafs, warsh, duri, etc). After that we come to the 'phase 2', that is, inside the Quran itself. Allah was so 'honest' that he confessed that we will not see MUCH CONTRADICTIONS (Quran 4:82) but Muslims, like you, want to correct Allah that he actually tried to say NO CONTRADICTION. This is a very great 'shirk', you need to ask Allah to forgive you.

I will wait till after ramadan in case you don't respond on time.

1 Like

Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by Empiree: 8:48am On Jun 01, 2019
true2god:
What difference does it make it you respond to the 'Hafs and warsh' questions now or after ramadan? Do you need enough time to do your research and equally ask your sheik? That's OK by me as long as you come up with something reasonable, which I doubt you can.

The contradictions we are dealing with now is the 'phase 1', that is, among different readings (like Hafs, warsh, duri, etc). After that we come to the 'phase 2', that is, inside the Quran itself. Allah was so 'honest' that he confessed that we will not see MUCH CONTRADICTIONS but Muslims, like you, want to correct Allah that he actually tried to say NO CONTRADICTION. This is a very great 'shirk', you need to ask Allah to forgive you.

I will wait till after ramadan in case you don't respond on time.

Sometimes i just feel bad for you bcuz this is the least you should argue about. It is very sad but i know you are arguing this bcuz your Bible is messed up. Yes, messed up. How could you consider ahrûf (Hafs, warsh,) in which the Qur'an was revealed contradictions?. It seems to me you guys have new meaning of the word "contradiction". It is a well-known fact that there are seven different ahrûf in which the Qur'an was revealed. In the Islamic tradition, this basis can be traced back to a number of hadîths concerning the revelation of the Qur'an in seven ahrûf (singular harf). Some of the examples of these hadîths are as follows:


Abû Hurairah said:

The Messenger of God(SAW) said: "The Qur'an was sent down in seven ahruf. Disputation concerning the Qur'an is unbelief" - he said this three times - "and you should put into practice what you know of it, and leave what you do not know of it to someone who does."


Abû Hurairah said:

The Messenger of God(P) said: "An All-knowing, Wise, Forgiving, Merciful sent down the Qur'an in seven ahruf."



Abdullâh Ibn Masud said:

The Messenger of God(P) said: "The Qur'an was sent down in seven ahruf. Each of these ahruf has an outward aspect (zahr) and an inward aspect (batn); each of the ahruf has a border, and each border has a lookout."



The meaning of this hadîth is explained as:

As for the Prophet's(P) words concerning the Qur'an, each of the ahruf has a border, it means that each of the seven aspects has a border which God has marked off and which no one may overstep. And as for his words Each of the ahruf has an outward aspect (zahr) and an inward aspect (batn), its outward aspect is the ostensive meaning of the recitation, and its inward aspect is its interpretation, which is concealed. And by his words each border ...... has a lookout he means that for each of the borders which God marked off in the Qur'an - of the lawful and unlawful, and its other legal injunctions - there is a measure of God's reward and punishment which surveys it in the Hereafter, and inspects it ...... at the Resurrection ......



And in another hadîth Abdullâh Ibn Masud said:

The Messenger of God(P) said: "The first Book came down from one gate according to one harf, but the Qur'an came down from seven gates according to seven ahruf: prohibiting and commanding, lawful and unlawful, clear and ambiguous, and parables. So, allow what it makes lawful, proscribe what it makes unlawful, do what it commands you to do, forbid what it prohibits, be warned by its parables, act on its clear passages, trust in its ambiguous passages." And they said: "We believe in it; it is all from our Lord."




And Abû Qilaba narrated:

It has reached me that the Prophet(P) said: "The Qur'an was sent down according to seven ahruf: command and prohibition, encouragement of good and discouragement of evil, dialectic, narrative, and parable."

These above hadîths serve as evidence that the Qur'an was revealed in seven ahruf. The definition of the term ahruf has been the subject of much scholarly discussion and is included in the general works of the Qur'an. The forms matched the dialects of following seven tribes: Quraysh, Hudhayl, Thaqîf, Hawâzin, Kinânah, Tamîm and Yemen. The revelation of the Qur'an in seven different ahruf made its recitation and memorization much easier for the various tribes.


For example, the phrase 'alayhim' (on them) was read by some 'alayhumoo' and the word siraat (path, bridge) was read as ziraat and mu'min (believer) as moomin. So ahruf is more about ascent/dialect not contradictions




The Qur'an continued to be read according to the seven ahruf until midway through Caliph 'Uthman's rule when some confusion arose in the outlying provinces concerning the Qur'an's recitation. Some Arab tribes had began to boast about the superiority of their ahruf and a rivalry began to develop. At the same time, some new Muslims also began mixing the various forms of recitation out of ignorance. Caliph 'Uthman decided to make official copies of the Qur'an according to the dialect of the Quraysh and send them along with the Qur'anic reciters to the major centres of Islam. This decision was approved by Sahaabah and all unofficial copies of the Qur'an were destroyed. Following the distribution of the official copies, all the other ahruf were dropped and the Qur'an began to be read in only one harf. Thus, the Qur'an which is available throughout the world today is written and recited only according to the harf of Quraysh.



to be continued......
Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by sagenaija: 9:42am On Jun 01, 2019
Empiree:


These above hadîths serve as evidence that the Qur'an was revealed in seven ahruf.

The revelation of the Qur'an in seven different ahruf made its recitation and memorization much easier for the various tribes.

For example, the phrase 'alayhim' (on them) was read by some 'alayhumoo' and the word siraat (path, bridge) was read as ziraat and mu'min (believer) as moomin. So ahruf is more about ascent/dialect not contradictions

to be continued......
You either close your mind to issues deliberately or maybe it's the self-brainwashing I talked of earlier.

Whether revealed in 7 or 17 ways or a word is read in one or two ways the issue is DO THEY ALL HAVE THE SAME MEANING?

If Americans call an English word in one way and the British call it in another way BUT it is understood to mean the same thing, then what is the fuss about whether it is one or seven?

So, did Hafs and Warsh use words with the same meaning in that Koran 3:146?

Btw, who determined which copies of the Koran pieces became OFFICIAL? Was it on Allah's authority through INSPIRATION or a mere political decision? If on Allah's authority then that means Allah appointed another MESSENGER after Mohamed to collate the Koran. If not then how can we trust a man made project? You at least admitted in your post that issues arose that necessitated the production of the OFFICIAL Koran and the burning of all others.

We can see that you have decided to respond before Ramadan is over. That's good.

1 Like

Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by true2god: 9:49am On Jun 01, 2019
Empiree:
Sometimes i just feel bad for you bcuz this is the least you should argue about. It is very sad but i know you are arguing this bcuz your Bible is messed up. Yes, messed up. How could you consider ahrûf (Hafs, warsh,) in which the Qur'an was revealed contradictions?. It seems to me you guys have new meaning of the word "contradiction". It is a well-known fact that there are seven different ahrûf in which the Qur'an was revealed. In the Islamic tradition, this basis can be traced back to a number of hadîths concerning the revelation of the Qur'an in seven ahrûf (singular harf). Some of the examples of these hadîths are as follows:


Abû Hurairah said:

The Messenger of God(SAW) said: "The Qur'an was sent down in seven ahruf. Disputation concerning the Qur'an is unbelief" - he said this three times - "and you should put into practice what you know of it, and leave what you do not know of it to someone who does."


Abû Hurairah said:

The Messenger of God(P) said: "An All-knowing, Wise, Forgiving, Merciful sent down the Qur'an in seven ahruf."



Abdullâh Ibn Masud said:

The Messenger of God(P) said: "The Qur'an was sent down in seven ahruf. Each of these ahruf has an outward aspect (zahr) and an inward aspect (batn); each of the ahruf has a border, and each border has a lookout."



The meaning of this hadîth is explained as:

As for the Prophet's(P) words concerning the Qur'an, each of the ahruf has a border, it means that each of the seven aspects has a border which God has marked off and which no one may overstep. And as for his words Each of the ahruf has an outward aspect (zahr) and an inward aspect (batn), its outward aspect is the ostensive meaning of the recitation, and its inward aspect is its interpretation, which is concealed. And by his words each border ...... has a lookout he means that for each of the borders which God marked off in the Qur'an - of the lawful and unlawful, and its other legal injunctions - there is a measure of God's reward and punishment which surveys it in the Hereafter, and inspects it ...... at the Resurrection ......



And in another hadîth Abdullâh Ibn Masud said:

The Messenger of God(P) said: "The first Book came down from one gate according to one harf, but the Qur'an came down from seven gates according to seven ahruf: prohibiting and commanding, lawful and unlawful, clear and ambiguous, and parables. So, allow what it makes lawful, proscribe what it makes unlawful, do what it commands you to do, forbid what it prohibits, be warned by its parables, act on its clear passages, trust in its ambiguous passages." And they said: "We believe in it; it is all from our Lord."




And Abû Qilaba narrated:

It has reached me that the Prophet(P) said: "The Qur'an was sent down according to seven ahruf: command and prohibition, encouragement of good and discouragement of evil, dialectic, narrative, and parable."

These above hadîths serve as evidence that the Qur'an was revealed in seven ahruf. The definition of the term ahruf has been the subject of much scholarly discussion and is included in the general works of the Qur'an. The forms matched the dialects of following seven tribes: Quraysh, Hudhayl, Thaqîf, Hawâzin, Kinânah, Tamîm and Yemen. The revelation of the Qur'an in seven different ahruf made its recitation and memorization much easier for the various tribes.


For example, the phrase 'alayhim' (on them) was read by some 'alayhumoo' and the word siraat (path, bridge) was read as ziraat and mu'min (believer) as moomin. So ahruf is more about ascent/dialect not contradictions








to be continued......
You are the one going from poles to pillar trying to clear up the mess in the Quran. If the Quran is 100% contradiction-free we won't be here going back and forth but the opposite is true, which the Quran itself acknowledged (Quran 4:82, emphasises on the word MUCH CONTRADICTION). I even did a screenshot on the irregularities between the Hafs and the warsh Quran but you intentionally ignored it (check page 14 of this thread). Your attempt to ignore the screenshots won't make my points go away, I will always refer you back to them for your comments and clarification.

You asked for the meaning of contradictions; in a layman understanding it is the combination of ideas opposed to one another. And the screenshot I did, which you deliberately ignored, contained these 'opposing ideas'.

The scholarly response, obviously a 'copy and paste' response, does not address the issue at hand, rather it makes your argument more complicated because you want to dig and dig to get a possible explanation which rather proved elusive. Instead of you to address the inconsistencies between the warsh and the hafs Quran, what you are doing is trying to deflect as much as you can, and fortunately, I will keep bringing it up for you to clarify the obvious contradictions. In case you have forgotten, I will paste the screenshot again, on this page, for you to address them.

Asalama lekum!

2 Likes

Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by true2god: 9:53am On Jun 01, 2019

1 Like

Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by true2god: 9:59am On Jun 01, 2019

1 Like

Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by true2god: 10:01am On Jun 01, 2019

1 Like

Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by true2god: 10:04am On Jun 01, 2019

1 Like

Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by Empiree: 4:18pm On Jun 01, 2019
true2god:
You are the one going from poles to pillar trying to clear up the mess in the Quran. If the Quran is 100% contradiction-free we won't be here going back and forth but the opposite is true, which the Quran itself acknowledged (Quran 4:82, emphasises on the word MUCH CONTRADICTION). I even did a screenshot on the irregularities between the Hafs and the warsh Quran but you intentionally ignored it (check page 14 of this thread). Your attempt to ignore the screenshots won't make my points go away, I will always refer you back to them for your comments and clarification.
you based your confusion on a verse and you are looking for ways to further confuse yourself. Yet you didn't actually provide alleged contradictions. Whose fault is that?. I wouldn't skip if you didn't post irrelevant long winded posts to try to skillfully overwhelm me with copy paste from all these anti Islam websites. So now I have seen your screenshoted English translation. How many times will I tell you that Quran is only in Arabic?. Translations are never Quran. You have to refute Arabic Quran not English. So this alone refuted your argument






You asked for the meaning of contradictions; in a layman understanding it is the combination of ideas opposed to one another. And the screenshot I did, which you deliberately ignored, contained these 'opposing ideas'.
refer up there. Again Quran is in arabic. If you can't screenshot Quran Arabic text with varying contradictions then you have no claim.


Quran 12:2

Sahih International: Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand.



Pickthall: Lo! We have revealed it, a Lecture in Arabic, that ye may understand.



Yusuf Ali: We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.



Shakir: Surely We have revealed it-- an Arabic Quran-- that you may understand.




The scholarly response, obviously a 'copy and paste' response, does not address the issue at hand, rather it makes your argument more complicated because you want to dig and dig to get a possible explanation which rather proved elusive. Instead of you to address the inconsistencies between the warsh and the hafs Quran, what you are doing is trying to deflect as much as you can, and fortunately, I will keep bringing it up for you to clarify the obvious contradictions. In case you have forgotten, I will paste the screenshot again, on this page, for you to address them.

Asalama lekum!
See, I can't help you. My responses would not be any different from consensus.

If you have already made up your mind why should I waste my time?. My post explained to you why most recitation today are hafs but you still talking about contradictions. Are you here to reason or deliberate attempt to antigonize facts presented?.

Once again, Quran is in Arabic. You need to stop doing yourself disservice by quoting English translation. This is not Bible, sir. If we have problems with translations, we simply refer to original Arabic text where nothing goes wrong.

Translators used different choice of words. Please stop using translated text to proof your point. And if you don't understand Arabic then, you are not in position to determine contradictions.

Quran was revealed in be Arabic not English
Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by sagenaija: 7:53am On Jun 02, 2019
What is the Quran?

What is the Quran? Is it the word of Allah?"Or is the Quran the word of...
The Mishnah?
2 Enoch?
3 Enoch?
Testament of Solomon?
Apocalypse of Abraham?
Book of Jubilees?
Testament of Levi?
Life of Adam and Eve?
The Book of the Cave of Treasures?
The Gospel of Bartholomew?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cuTkCGbVlE
Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by true2god: 8:36am On Jun 02, 2019
Empiree:
you based your confusion on a verse and you are looking for ways to further confuse yourself. Yet you didn't actually provide alleged contradictions. Whose fault is that?. I wouldn't skip if you didn't post irrelevant long winded posts to try to skillfully overwhelm me with copy paste from all these anti Islam websites. So now I have seen your screenshoted English translation. How many times will I tell you that Quran is only in Arabic?. Translations are never Quran. You have to refute Arabic Quran not English. So this alone refuted your argument






refer up there. Again Quran is in arabic. If you can't screenshot Quran Arabic text with varying contradictions then you have no claim.


Quran 12:2

Sahih International: Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand.



Pickthall: Lo! We have revealed it, a Lecture in Arabic, that ye may understand.



Yusuf Ali: We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.



Shakir: Surely We have revealed it-- an Arabic Quran-- that you may understand.




See, I can't help you. My responses would not be any different from consensus.

If you have already made up your mind why should I waste my time?. My post explained to you why most recitation today are hafs but you still talking about contradictions. Are you here to reason or deliberate attempt to antigonize facts presented?.

Once again, Quran is in Arabic. You need to stop doing yourself disservice by quoting English translation. This is not Bible, sir. If we have problems with translations, we simply refer to original Arabic text where nothing goes wrong.

Translators used different choice of words. Please stop using translated text to proof your point. And if you don't understand Arabic then, you are not in position to determine contradictions.

Quran was revealed in be Arabic not English
Standard Islamic escape route: 'you have to provide your proof in Arabic'. This is the major reasons almost all non-muslims view Islam as a comedy, a joke. Thousands of linguist translated the Quran into English language, in Saudi Arabia, and named it 'sahih international' and an unknown Yoruba man, in a remote part of Nigeria, said 'no, you cannot translate Quran from Arabic to English and have the exact literal meaning'. I have heard this excuses over and over again, an I'm sorry to say, it is a very daft and unreasonable argument. In order words, for us to understand Islam in its pure form, we all have to study Arabic and understand it very well. That's a crazy demand, especially when we have thousands of linguists who had painstakingly translated the quran from Arabic to english language.

The screenshot I did, on warsh and Hafs quran, have both the Arabic and the english translations side by side. Do you mean you can't see/read it? What scholarship do you even have in Arabic language compared to the people that translated the quran? I have seen/heard many Muslims boast that the quran can be studied in english but anytime we point out the inconsistencies in the quran Muslims 'switched' back to 'you cannot trust the translations of the quran'. Bros, you guys should act like adults and stop disgracing yourself, especially when dealing with a highly informed people.

To buttress my point, you quoted the ayah below;

Quran 12:2
Sahih International: Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand

Ask yourself a simple questions, which audience is the ayah above talking to? French audience, english audience or Arabic audience?

What's the language of communication during the time of Mohammed and his sahabas in the Arabian peninsula? French, Arabic, or English?

If that's the case, what language will Mohammed ask his scribes to write down the quran? Arabic, english or French language?

This is a simple logic and you don't need any allah to tell you that the quran will be written in a language spoken by the people and culture where Islam started. If Mohammed was a Chinese, do you think the quran will be written in Arabic or Mandarin? Stop making Muslims look stupid on nairaland, since you are one of their 'heavyweights' and start thinking critically.

No language, in this modern time and era, that cannot be translated, to another language, with a 99.9% accuracy, the quran inclusive. Muslims should stop making it look as if the Arabic quran is a mystical language that can never be accurately translated, that's a lie and you have been deceived to believe that lie.

Back to your discussion, i did three screenshots, in page 14, of Arabic contradictions in both the warsh and the hafs quran, you refused to touch any of it but rather, in your usual characteristics, deflected to 'Arabic quran'. Are both the Hafs and the warsh no longer Arabic Qur'ans? Stop this back and fact and educate us on the contradictions that's are common in different Qur'anic readings.

Asalama lekum!
Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by Empiree: 8:56pm On Jun 02, 2019
true2god:
Standard Islamic escape route: 'you have to provide your proof in Arabic'. This is the major reasons almost all non-muslims view Islam as a comedy, a joke. Thousands of linguist translated the Quran into English language, in Saudi Arabia, and named it 'sahih international' and an unknown Yoruba man, in a remote part of Nigeria, said 'no, you cannot translate Quran from Arabic to English and have the exact literal meaning'. I have heard this excuses over and over again, an I'm sorry to say, it is a very daft and unreasonable argument. In order words, for us to understand Islam in its pure form, we all have to study Arabic and understand it very well. That's a crazy demand, especially when we have thousands of linguists who had painstakingly translated the quran from Arabic to english language.

The screenshot I did, on warsh and Hafs quran, have both the Arabic and the english translations side by side. Do you mean you can't see/read it? What scholarship do you even have in Arabic language compared to the people that translated the quran? I have seen/heard many Muslims boast that the quran can be studied in english but anytime we point out the inconsistencies in the quran Muslims 'switched' back to 'you cannot trust the translations of the quran'. Bros, you guys should act like adults and stop disgracing yourself, especially when dealing with a highly informed people.

To buttress my point, you quoted the ayah below;

Quran 12:2
Sahih International: Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand

Ask yourself a simple questions, which audience is the ayah above talking to? French audience, english audience or Arabic audience?

What's the language of communication during the time of Mohammed and his sahabas in the Arabian peninsula? French, Arabic, or English?

If that's the case, what language will Mohammed ask his scribes to write down the quran? Arabic, english or French language?

This is a simple logic and you don't need any allah to tell you that the quran will be written in a language spoken by the people and culture where Islam started. If Mohammed was a Chinese, do you think the quran will be written in Arabic or Mandarin? Stop making Muslims look stupid on nairaland, since you are one of their 'heavyweights' and start thinking critically.

No language, in this modern time and era, that cannot be translated, to another language, with a 99.9% accuracy, the quran inclusive. Muslims should stop making it look as if the Arabic quran is a mystical language that can never be accurately translated, that's a lie and you have been deceived to believe that lie.

Back to your discussion, i did three screenshots, in page 14, of Arabic contradictions in both the warsh and the hafs quran, you refused to touch any of it but rather, in your usual characteristics, deflected to 'Arabic quran'. Are both the Hafs and the warsh no longer Arabic Qur'ans? Stop this back and fact and educate us on the contradictions that's are common in different Qur'anic readings.

Asalama lekum!

You know the reason christianity is messed up today?. It is bcuz it has lost its original manuscripts in which the message was delivered to Jesus. This is why it is impossible for christians to return to monotheism. But if you have original copy today, all these differences about identity of Jesus would have been put to rest. But bcus it is written in other languages, and original is no longer to be available, several christian factions follow their own books...all under christianity.

But with islam, no matter how misguided a muslim is, he will always refer to original arabic text which Quran was revealed. If he doesnt understand arabic he goes to those who have mastered it. Therefore, when Quran was speaking in Quran 12:2, it is talking to entire universe. "....that you might understand" was not limited to prophet muhammad or Arabs. WHy?. bcuz Quran is still here with us today. It is for the past, present and future.
Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by sagenaija: 11:31pm On Jun 02, 2019
Empiree:

But with islam, no matter how misguided a muslim is, he will always refer to original arabic text which Quran was revealed. If he doesnt understand arabic he goes to those who have mastered it. Therefore, when Quran was speaking in Quran 12:2, it is talking to entire universe. "....that you might understand" was not limited to prophet muhammad or Arabs. WHy?. bcuz Quran is still here with us today. It is for the past, present and future.
We have PROOVED that the Koran has many versions. That is why there are the Hafs, Warsh, Doori, etc Arabic versions today. We are NOT talking about ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS but the ARABIC language versions.

We have shown how they are VARIANTS i.e. they are different from each other in some way.

So, we find that in the same verse from these versions we can have one version use a particular ARABIC WORD which another version does not use but instead uses a DIFFERENT Arabic word with a DIFFERENT MEANING from the Arabic word used by the first version.

We used Koran chapter 4:146 where the Hafs version said “fought” whereas the Warsh version said “were killed”. The Hafs used the Arabic word “qatala” while the Warsh used the Arabic word “qutil”. CLEARLY these are NOT the same words.

Again, we are talking of use of different Arabic words and not merely translations reflecting English words.

Screenshots of many other verses between the Hafs and Warsh versions alone which have different Arabic words used in the same verses of these verions were posted. We have not even talked about the remaining 30 or so other Arabic versions of the Koran just these two.

Btw, there is no “ORIGINAL ARABIC” Koran. What we have are versions written over a hundred years after Mohamed. So, the Hafs, Warsh, Doori, etc versions were NOT written DURING Mohamed’s lifetime or his companions who lived after him.

The Koran HAS NOT BEEN PERFECTLY PRESERVED.

If the TRUTH matters to you then that is the ONLY conclusion you should come to in the face of all these glaring evidences!
Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by Empiree: 11:54pm On Jun 02, 2019
sagenaija:

We have PROOVED that the Koran has many versions. That is why there are the Hafs, Warsh, Doori, etc Arabic versions today. We are NOT talking about ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS but the ARABIC language versions.

We have shown how they are VARIANTS i.e. they are different from each other in some way.

So, we find that in the same verse from these versions we can have one version use a particular ARABIC WORD which another version does not use but instead uses a DIFFERENT Arabic word with a DIFFERENT MEANING from the Arabic word used by the first version.

We used Koran chapter 4:146 where the Hafs version said “fought” whereas the Warsh version said “were killed”. The Hafs used the Arabic word “qatala” while the Warsh used the Arabic word “qutil”. CLEARLY these are NOT the same words.

Again, we are talking of use of different Arabic words and not merely translations reflecting English words.

Screenshots of many other verses between the Hafs and Warsh versions alone which have different Arabic words used in the same verses of these verions were posted. We have not even talked about the remaining 30 or so other Arabic versions of the Koran just these two.

Btw, there is no “ORIGINAL ARABIC” Koran. What we have are versions written over a hundred years after Mohamed. So, the Hafs, Warsh, Doori, etc versions were NOT written DURING Mohamed’s lifetime or his companions who lived after him.

The Koran HAS NOT BEEN PERFECTLY PRESERVED.

If the TRUTH matters to you then that is the ONLY conclusion you should come to in the face of all these glaring evidences!
there is nothing like "versions of Quran". Quran is only one version in Arabic. If you are not comfortable, that's your problem. Whether translator used "killed" or "fought" are choice of words. But it is the same text in Arabic. I can't help you man. You are using English translation, buddy.

Let me give you example since you and your buddy don't understand anything. In Arabic Quran which is One, if you read something like "Qul" in arabic you may translate it to english as "say". This is common and reasonable translation. But you may also decide to use different english word "speak", "voice", "pronounce" which are your choice of words. So these choices of yours are versions of translators not version of Quran.

But in the Quran it is always "Qul". So what you are doing is, you used different translators' choice of words; "killed" or "fought" and claimed that Quran has different versions. This is false methodology of yours. So in the arabic Quran, whether translators used "killed" or "fought" it doesn't make any difference bcus it is only one word used in arabic Quran which is قَتَّلَ (qattala). This can be used in form in arabic like يُقْتَلُ‎‎ (yuqtalu). Past or present tense doesn't make any difference in arabic. How it is used in sentence determines its usage.

See if you can learn about it in this link https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D9%82%D8%AA%D9%84

You could ONLY establish different versions of Quran (in arabic) if, only if, Quran in arabic that you have used قَتَلَ (qatala) and then you buy another one in arabic and in the SAME chapter and SAME verse there are DIFFERENT words. This would be different versions but you can never find error. Quran in ONE. So i have given you some insight to research for yourself if you are truthful.
Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by sagenaija: 9:44am On Jun 03, 2019
Empiree:
there is nothing like "versions of Quran". Quran is only one version in Arabic. If you are not comfortable, that's your problem. Whether translator used "killed" or "fought" are choice of words. But it is the same text in Arabic. I can't help you man. You are using English translation, buddy.

Let me give you example since you and your buddy don't understand anything. In Arabic Quran which is One, if you read something like "Qul" in arabic you may translate it to english as "say". This is common and reasonable translation. But you may also decide to use different english word "speak", "voice", "pronounce" which are your choice of words. So these choices of yours are versions of translators not version of Quran.

So i have given you some insight to research for yourself if you are truthful.
How can you be so DISHONEST?

You have given NO insight to anything.

You refuse to answer the questions asked, then you turn to other extraneous issues UNRELATED to the matter at hand, and then now want to claim that you have “given some insight”. You might as well have said “Allah knows best!”

What dishonesty!

We are not talking about “say” or “Qul”

We are not talking about English translation.

We are not talking about past tense or present tense here even though these can even be material.

The issue was that of a SPECIFIC verse in the Koran. Why are you beating about the bush and going off into some other different direction?

The question was simple:
Is it the same ARABIC word that was used in the two different versions of the Koran in chapter 4:146?

You DID NOT answer that question.
Knowing your love for screenshots, if you had the answer you would have put up screenshot after screenshot showing that IT IS THE SAME WORD THAT IS USED.

But you did not do that.

Even the use of PAST TENSE or PRESENT TENSE can radically CHANGE the meaning of a statement!
If a statement reads:
“He did it”
And another reads:
“He is doing it”
Can you say the meanings are the same? Has the action not been completed in one and not yet in the other?

Even in the example you gave; is there any material difference between "speak", "voice", or "pronounce"? But the words in question were "speak" and "hear" would you say they would still mean the same thing?

Empiree, are you deliberately trying to be too smart even for yourself?
Are you saying that in the following, the ARABIC words:
“owner” [Hafs] is the same as “king” [Warsh] – 1:4
“they lie” [Hafs] is the same as “they were lied to” [Warsh] – 2:10
“two works of magic” [Hafs] is the same as “two magicians” [Warsh] – 28:48
“you do” [Hafs] is the same as “they do” [Warsh] – 2:85
“he said” [hafs] is the same as “say!” [Warsh] – 21:4
mean the same thing in the two versions?

So in the arabic Quran, whether translators used "killed" or "fought" it doesn't make any difference bcus it is only one word used in arabic Quran
Another sign of DISHONESTY is in the above when you want to claim that:
“whether translators used “killed” or “fought” it doesn’t make any difference”

Really?
Are you saying that if a man said:
“They “fought” each other” it means the same as
“They “killed” each other”?

Can you see the extent of your self-deception and deceitfulness? Even during Ramadan?

1 Like

Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by Empiree: 1:43pm On Jun 03, 2019
sagenaija:

How can you be so DISHONEST?

You have given NO insight to anything.

You refuse to answer the questions asked, then you turn to other extraneous issues UNRELATED to the matter at hand, and then now want to claim that you have “given some insight”. You might as well have said “Allah knows best!”

What dishonesty!

We are not talking about “say” or “Qul”

We are not talking about English translation.

We are not talking about past tense or present tense here even though these can even be material.

The issue was that of a SPECIFIC verse in the Koran. Why are you beating about the bush and going off into some other different direction?

The question was simple:
Is it the same ARABIC word that was used in the two different versions of the Koran in chapter 4:146?

You DID NOT answer that question.
Knowing your love for screenshots, if you had the answer you would have put up screenshot after screenshot showing that IT IS THE SAME WORD THAT IS USED.

But you did not do that.

Even the use of PAST TENSE or PRESENT TENSE can radically CHANGE the meaning of a statement!
If a statement reads:
“He did it”
And another reads:
“He is doing it”
Can you say the meanings are the same? Has the action not been completed in one and not yet in the other?

Even in the example you gave; is there any material difference between "speak", "voice", or "pronounce"? But the words in question were "speak" and "hear" would you say they would still mean the same thing?

Empiree, are you deliberately trying to be too smart even for yourself?
Are you saying that in the following, the ARABIC words:
“owner” [Hafs] is the same as “king” [Warsh] – 1:4
“they lie” [Hafs] is the same as “they were lied to” [Warsh] – 2:10
“two works of magic” [Hafs] is the same as “two magicians” [Warsh] – 28:48
“you do” [Hafs] is the same as “they do” [Warsh] – 2:85
“he said” [hafs] is the same as “say!” [Warsh] – 21:4
mean the same thing in the two versions?


Another sign of DISHONESTY is in the above when you want to claim that:
“whether translators used “killed” or “fought” it doesn’t make any difference”

Really?
Are you saying that if a man said:
“They “fought” each other” it means the same as
“They “killed” each other”?

Can you see the extent of your self-deception and deceitfulness? Even during Ramadan?

let's keep it simple. If you think I follow everything you copied and posted here OYO lo wa oo. My understanding was you were still on "killed, fought" etc. I don't bother reading your epistles because I know you don't know what you copied just like you did again.

So in order for you to help yourself, kindly quote chapter and verse in question in ARABIC text only and UNDERLINE SPECIFIC WORDS n question. Or screenshot and underline words of concern. This is the ONLY way forward. This will test your level of understanding ARABIC. This is the way to figure out if you actually know what you are talking about.

Otherwise, if you keep copying and pasting things you don't understand yourself, then, this is a fruitless thread.
Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by true2god: 3:42pm On Jun 03, 2019
Empiree:
You know the reason christianity is messed up today?. It is bcuz it has lost its original manuscripts in which the message was delivered to Jesus. This is why it is impossible for christians to return to monotheism. But if you have original copy today, all these differences about identity of Jesus would have been put to rest. But bcus it is written in other languages, and original is no longer to be available, several christian factions follow their own books...all under christianity.

But with islam, no matter how misguided a muslim is, he will always refer to original arabic text which Quran was revealed. If he doesnt understand arabic he goes to those who have mastered it. Therefore, when Quran was speaking in Quran 12:2, it is talking to entire universe. "....that you might understand" was not limited to prophet muhammad or Arabs. WHy?. bcuz Quran is still here with us today. It is for the past, present and future.
This is the reason I said you lack critical thinking skills when you cannot even provide a logical thought for your ayah (Qur'an 12:2). The audience Mohammed was dealing with are not Chinese or Americans but his fellow Arab men hence he asked his scribes to write down his so-called revelation in Arabic. He can't ask them to write it in Mandarin or English. We are not even talking about what Mohammed asked his sahabas to write down (because it never existed after the time of Othman ibn affan) but the current Qur'an which Muslims, by themselves, have categorised into about 30 different readings and among the major ones are Hafs, Warsh and doori readings of the Qur'an.

All these three readings have variants which I have done a screenshot on. However as a dishonest person you are, you pretended as if you didn't see the variant Arab screenshot I did, since you insisted it must be Arabic or else. What else do you want, we should start typing out the Arabic, since the screenshot is not acceptable to you? It's good to defend ones beliefs but when one becomes dishonest in his quest to defend his belief, that's a big issue.

The unfortunate part of these is that most Muslims seem to be very dishonest, especially when a point is raised against their standard beliefs. Islam is the only religion that make it rule that 'it must be Arabic or never', this is a stone age mindset and equally used in deceiving non-muslims. More than 80% of Muslims worldwide do not understand Arabic and so what must be their fate?

You also make a claim, a typical Islamic claim, that a message was 'delivered' to Jesus. This is an ignorant claim. Unlike Mohammed, Jesus didn't lie that an angel was giving him a revelation rather he came to teach people the word of God and the gospel of the kingdom. There is no any fake angel jibril that gave Jesus any injil (this is a claim by ignorant Muslims). The 4 gospels, which Mohammed called the injil are 'eyewitness account' of the life and time of Jesus Christ; his biography, and allah recognised these accounts as his words as the injil.
Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by true2god: 3:47pm On Jun 03, 2019

Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by true2god: 3:48pm On Jun 03, 2019

Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by true2god: 3:51pm On Jun 03, 2019
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Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by true2god: 4:01pm On Jun 03, 2019
What I see you do now is clowning and feigning ignorance of what we are talking about. However, I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are confused and you didn't get what we are passing across (though I seriously doubt this). The screenshots I provided above are in ARABIC (emphatic stress) for both the Hats and the Warsh Qur'an. Forget about the English translation, concentrate ONLY on the Arabic text, and tell me if there are no variant in the two readings.

Open your mind and be honest a bit, no one wants to convert you; just want to clear the old myth that 'all qurans are 100% the same', word for word and dot for dot. We are dealing with only two readings, we never even touched about 7 other readings which also have slight variants in readings and meanings.

It is possible that this information are new to you, please do your independent findings.
Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by Empiree: 4:48pm On Jun 03, 2019
true2god:
This is the reason I said you lack critical thinking skills when you cannot even provide a logical thought for your ayah (Qur'an 12:2). The audience Mohammed was dealing with are not Chinese or Americans but his fellow Arab men hence he asked his scribes to write down his so-called revelation in Arabic. He can't ask them to write it in Mandarin or English.


you see why you dont even make sense?. Because you knew the truth but chose to go left. You keep saying MUhammad is saying things in the Quran as if he wrote it. I understand christian evangelists line of thought and I am not even going back n forth with you on this.

Second, let's assume muhammad was the one speaking in Quran 12:2 to his arab audience, then you gonna have lots of trouble bcus there are many places where Quran addresses nabi MUhammad(saw) like Quran 112 v 1 "say" or Suran Imran 85 "say". Snnce nabi muhammad is no longer here and Quran is still present affirming it was sent to the whole world [al-Anbiya’ 21:107] means that Quran 12:2 is addressing you and I and the rest of mankind. This is why i like some white people. They research than you lazy Nigerians. This is why they speak Arabic bcuz they strive to understand what the message is saying. You can take your irrational thinking back to garbage bin. For the fact that you said muhammad is the one speaking in the Quran truly says a lot about you.
Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by Empiree: 5:27pm On Jun 03, 2019
true2god:
What I see you do now is clowning and feigning ignorance of what we are talking about. However, I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are confused and you didn't get what we are passing across (though I seriously doubt this). The screenshots I provided above are in ARABIC (emphatic stress) for both the Hats and the Warsh Qur'an. Forget about the English translation, concentrate ONLY on the Arabic text, and tell me if there are no variant in the two readings.

Open your mind and be honest a bit, no one wants to convert you; just want to clear the old myth that 'all qurans are 100% the same', word for word and dot for dot. We are dealing with only two readings, we never even touched about 7 other readings which also have slight variants in readings and meanings.

It is possible that this information are new to you, please do your independent findings.
smh..you actually think Hafs and Warsh are new to us?. Common bro... you even tried to make sense with you last screenshot. I have not actually taken my time to see at your screenshots except the last one but i sensed all along what you are saying and it is old thats why you bored me. The style of writings you brought up arent new. They are methods recitations. Different readings are consisting of diacritical differences. You can't have different readings without different diacritical marks. And the meanings of these words are very similar to each other. For example there is the reading style of Hafs and Warsh. In Sura al Fatiha we say in the narration of Hafs: Maaliki yawmiddin. The "a" is recited longer because of the diacritical sign. In warsh it is pronounced: Maliki yawmiddin. The "a" won't be recited longer any more. This doesn't change the meaning of the verse. Because Allah is both, He is Maalik and Malik. The variant readings are so minimal they make no difference to the message of the Qur'an unlike your bible which has significant variations to the point that it affects and distorts the message.

So whether it is Maalik or Malik, Qattala or Qatala it means same thing. I grew up with this as a child man. You remembered when we learn Alif Ba Ta Tha and then write them in a sentence etc So Hafs Warsh you are bringing up is not gonna be solved here on NL bcus you will not agree and neither will I. The only way you can help yourself and learn is to enrol in standard islamic university and learn. We will not solve this alleged problems of your here...njo today man.


Let me give you another example, in 1998 when my elder brother returned from Saudi, one day we were joking and he said who can write michael jackson in arabic?. Everyone wrote it down differently i arabic letters. Mine was slightly different from this مايكل جاكسون in the sense that the first word (detached) was the same but "jackson", with 'ja' in arabic, instead of writing 'Ja' in standalone format as you seen above, I joined 'ja' with 'kaf'. Trust me, i can't help you if you dont understand what i just said here which will prove that you dont understand anything to begin with and I will never stress myself trying to piece together everything for you. Since you claimed to have knowledge of Hafs and Warsh, you should figure out this example I gave you. This example is similar to differences btw Hafs and Warsh writings but the bottom line is it makes no changes to the meaning. Thats one beauty of arabic language.

I know that everything i said will not make sense to you since you "know better". Thats why i said this is not gonna be solved here.
Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by sagenaija: 7:30pm On Jun 03, 2019
Empiree:
let's keep it simple. If you think I follow everything you copied and posted here OYO lo wa oo. My understanding was you were still on "killed, fought" etc. I don't bother reading your epistles because I know you don't know what you copied just like you did again.

So in order for you to help yourself, kindly quote chapter and verse in question in ARABIC text only and UNDERLINE SPECIFIC WORDS n question. Or screenshot and underline words of concern. This is the ONLY way forward. This will test your level of understanding ARABIC. This is the way to figure out if you actually know what you are talking about.

Otherwise, if you keep copying and pasting things you don't understand yourself, then, this is a fruitless thread.
Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by sagenaija: 7:37pm On Jun 03, 2019
Empiree:
let's keep it simple. If you think I follow everything you copied and posted here OYO lo wa oo. My understanding was you were still on "killed, fought" etc. I don't bother reading your epistles because I know you don't know what you copied just like you did again.

So in order for you to help yourself, kindly quote chapter and verse in question in ARABIC text only and UNDERLINE SPECIFIC WORDS n question. Or screenshot and underline words of concern. This is the ONLY way forward. This will test your level of understanding ARABIC. This is the way to figure out if you actually know what you are talking about.

Otherwise, if you keep copying and pasting things you don't understand yourself, then, this is a fruitless thread.
If you don’t follow what your opponent in a debate is saying, it means you either lack the capacity to engage in it in a MEANINGFUL WAY or you do not even know why you are involved in it in the first place.

You call what others write “epistles” which you “don’t bother reading”. Then why engage in the first place? So, when you respond, what are you responding to?
And are you so sure that you don’t write “epistles” yourself?

The answer to the above is simple: You are afraid that it will SHAKE a foundational issue in your Islam. In Islam you are not allowed critical reasoning or to reason in any logical way. In Q. 5: 101 you are to ask no question. Questions lead to TRUTH. But apparently you don’t want the truth.

So, you refuse to read because it may expose you to the truth.

I have focussed on ONLY one thing for a while here YET you are still asking me to “quote chapter and verse in question in ARABIC text only … … bla, bla, bla”

Does that make sense even to you?

Maybe it makes sense if all you want is actually for us to be going around in a circle and moving nowhere.

This may be part of your tactics – “Let me wear them out so that when they quit I can shout ‘You have been refuted’, ‘You ran away!’.

Have you told us your understanding of “killed” and “fought” – Q.3:146?
Do the two words mean the same thing? Are the two the same word in the Arabic?


true2god posted screenshots including the very same verse I am referring to and you are still asking for screenshots. Didn’t you see those ones he posted also? Do you now see why I said you are SELF-DECEIVED and DECEPTIVE?

Even without screenshots, if I gave you a Koran reference don’t you have a Koran to read from? In these days of ACCESS to information wouldn’t you even have it in your phone? Is GOOGLE not even there to make things simpler?

You want to be a smart aleck who knows NOTHING of the field you think you can pride yourself so much in.

The ARABIC of the verse I am referring to has been posted in this thread. The issue with it has been highlighted. It is either that Ramadan is making your brain not to work correctly or it’s your usual DECEPTION TACTIC.

If you simply answered a simple one sentence question would there be need for an “epistle”? Maybe we should resort to a “hadith” to explain the question!

Is ARABIC a human language? Yes! Can a word in the ARABIC language be communicated to someone who understands ONLY a different language? Yes! Do Moslems today communicate Islam to people of other languages in their languages? Yes!
Is Islam preached in say, Yoruba language? Yes! So, what is the fuss over ARABIC?

The question again:
Is it the same ARABIC word that is used in both Hafs and Warsh versions of the Koran in chapter 3:146 for “fought” [Hafs] and “killed” [Warsh]?
Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by Empiree: 7:53pm On Jun 03, 2019
sagenaija:

If you don’t follow what your opponent in a debate is saying, it means you either lack the capacity to engage in it in a MEANINGFUL WAY or you do not even know why you are involved in it in the first place.

You call what others write “epistles” which you “don’t bother reading”. Then why engage in the first place? So, when you respond, what are you responding to?
And are you so sure that you don’t write “epistles” yourself?

The answer to the above is simple: You are afraid that it will SHAKE a foundational issue in your Islam. In Islam you are not allowed critical reasoning or to reason in any logical way. In Q. 5: 101 you are to ask no question. Questions lead to TRUTH. But apparently you don’t want the truth.

So, you refuse to read because it may expose you to the truth.

I have focussed on ONLY one thing for a while here YET you are still asking me to “quote chapter and verse in question in ARABIC text only … … bla, bla, bla”

Does that make sense even to you?

Maybe it makes sense if all you want is actually for us to be going around in a circle and moving nowhere.

This may be part of your tactics – “Let me wear them out so that when they quit I can shout ‘You have been refuted’, ‘You ran away!’.

Have you told us your understanding of “killed” and “fought” – Q.3:146?
Do the two words mean the same thing? Are the two the same word in the Arabic?


true2god posted screenshots including the very same verse I am referring to and you are still asking for screenshots. Didn’t you see those ones he posted also? Do you now see why I said you are SELF-DECEIVED and DECEPTIVE?

Even without screenshots, if I gave you a Koran reference don’t you have a Koran to read from? In these days of ACCESS to information wouldn’t you even have it in your phone? Is GOOGLE not even there to make things simpler?

You want to be a smart aleck who knows NOTHING of the field you think you can pride yourself so much in.

The ARABIC of the verse I am referring to has been posted in this thread. The issue with it has been highlighted. It is either that Ramadan is making your brain not to work correctly or it’s your usual DECEPTION TACTIC.

If you simply answered a simple one sentence question would there be need for an “epistle”? Maybe we should resort to a “hadith” to explain the question!

Is ARABIC a human language? Yes! Can a word in the ARABIC language be communicated to someone who understands ONLY a different language? Yes! Do Moslems today communicate Islam to people of other languages in their languages? Yes!
Is Islam preached in say, Yoruba language? Yes! So, what is the fuss over ARABIC?

The question again:
Is it the same ARABIC word that is used in both Hafs and Warsh versions of the Koran in chapter 3:146 for “fought” [Hafs] and “killed” [Warsh]?


see why we are not on the same page?. See why you keep going in cycle?. I told you that you quoted English and then concluded we have two versions of Quran. Scroll up to the Qur'an you cited. For ref, let me quote you



Have you told us your understanding of “killed” and “fought” – Q.3:146?
Do the two words mean the same thing? Are the two the same word in the Arabic?


I told you that translators used choice of words but you still repeated it. I'm so bored right now. I told you to screenshot Arabic text but you brought English up again. This is why I'm reluctant to read your post. You are repeating yourself everytime
Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by true2god: 9:03pm On Jun 03, 2019
Empiree:
smh..you actually think Hafs and Warsh are new to us?. Common bro... you even tried to make sense with you last screenshot. I have not actually taken my time to see at your screenshots except the last one but i sensed all along what you are saying and it is old thats why you bored me. The style of writings you brought up arent new. They are methods recitations. Different readings are consisting of diacritical differences. You can't have different readings without different diacritical marks. And the meanings of these words are very similar to each other. For example there is the reading style of Hafs and Warsh. In Sura al Fatiha we say in the narration of Hafs: Maaliki yawmiddin. The "a" is recited longer because of the diacritical sign. In warsh it is pronounced: Maliki yawmiddin. The "a" won't be recited longer any more. This doesn't change the meaning of the verse. Because Allah is both, He is Maalik and Malik. The variant readings are so minimal they make no difference to the message of the Qur'an unlike your bible which has significant variations to the point that it affects and distorts the message.

So whether it is Maalik or Malik, Qattala or Qatala it means same thing. I grew up with this as a child man. You remembered when we learn Alif Ba Ta Tha and then write them in a sentence etc So Hafs Warsh you are bringing up is not gonna be solved here on NL bcus you will not agree and neither will I. The only way you can help yourself and learn is to enrol in standard islamic university and learn. We will not solve this alleged problems of your here...njo today man.


Let me give you another example, in 1998 when my elder brother returned from Saudi, one day we were joking and he said who can write michael jackson in arabic?. Everyone wrote it down differently i arabic letters. Mine was slightly different from this مايكل جاكسون in the sense that the first word (detached) was the same but "jackson", with 'ja' in arabic, instead of writing 'Ja' in standalone format as you seen above, I joined 'ja' with 'kaf'. Trust me, i can't help you if you dont understand what i just said here which will prove that you dont understand anything to begin with and I will never stress myself trying to piece together everything for you. Since you claimed to have knowledge of Hafs and Warsh, you should figure out this example I gave you. This example is similar to differences btw Hafs and Warsh writings but the bottom line is it makes no changes to the meaning. Thats one beauty of arabic language.

I know that everything i said will not make sense to you since you "know better". Thats why i said this is not gonna be solved here.
It is very ridiculous for you to say you never looked at the screenshots. This is to say that your response so far had been based on blind argument, without looking at the evidences presented to you whether they are true of false. I think you need to apologize if you are not an arrogant man.

The different diacritical marks you talked about, does it have effect on the meanings of the ayah where there are different marks in the Hafs and Warsh Quran? Look at surah alfathiha (1:4), Hafs used 'owner' while Warsh used 'king', do they mean the same?

Look at surah albaqra ayah 10 (ayah 9 in Warsh), do they have the same meaning?
Re: Christian Prince Explains Islam by true2god: 9:05pm On Jun 03, 2019
Empiree:
you see why you dont even make sense?. Because you knew the truth but chose to go left. You keep saying MUhammad is saying things in the Quran as if he wrote it. I understand christian evangelists line of thought and I am not even going back n forth with you on this.

Second, let's assume muhammad was the one speaking in Quran 12:2 to his arab audience, then you gonna have lots of trouble bcus there are many places where Quran addresses nabi MUhammad(saw) like Quran 112 v 1 "say" or Suran Imran 85 "say". Snnce nabi muhammad is no longer here and Quran is still present affirming it was sent to the whole world [al-Anbiya’ 21:107] means that Quran 12:2 is addressing you and I and the rest of mankind. This is why i like some white people. They research than you lazy Nigerians. This is why they speak Arabic bcuz they strive to understand what the message is saying. You can take your irrational thinking back to garbage bin. For the fact that you said muhammad is the one speaking in the Quran truly says a lot about you.
I still maintain my points, based on what Aisha (not you because Mohammed did not know you):

Narrated Aisha: I used to look down upon those ladies who had given themselves to Allah's Apostle and I used to say, "Can a lady give herself (to a man)?" But when Allah revealed: "You (O Muhammad) can postpone (the turn of) whom you will of them (your wives), and you may receive any of them whom you will; and there is no blame on you if you invite one whose turn you have set aside (temporarily).' (33.51) I said (to the Prophet),
"I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires."
(Sahih Bukhari 6:60:311).

The key words I want you to pick are: YOUR WISHES AND DESIRES.

Now back to the argument and based on Aisha's testimony, most ayah of the Quran are wishes and desires of Mohammed. If that's the case, it was Muhammad's wishes and desires for his scribes to write down the Quran in Arabic, unless you can prove to me that there was another major languages people spoke in the Arabian peninsula, at the time of Mohammed, aside Arabic. You don't need any God to tell you that Mohammed's Quran will be written in Arabic; it is just a commonsense for any rational mind to grasp.

And when you bought up ayah where Mohammed was asked to 'say' and 'say", it does still change the fact that virtually all what we have in the Quran are Mohammed's wishes and desires. I didn't say so, Madam Aisha bint Abu Bakr did after much observation on the pattern of Mohammed's alleged revelations.

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