THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE;

A Christian Bible is a set of books that a Christian denomination regards as divinely inspired and thus constituting scripture. Although the Early Church primarily used the Septuagint or the Targums among Aramaic speakers, the apostles did not leave a defined set of new scriptures; instead the canon of the New Testament developed over time. Groups within Christianity include differing books as part of their sacred writings, most prominent among which are the biblical apocrypha or deuterocanonical books.

Significant versions of the Christian Bible in English include the Douay-Rheims Bible, the Authorized King James Version, the English Revised Version, the American Standard Version, the Revised Standard Version, the New American Standard Version, the New King James Version, the New International Version, and the English Standard Version.

THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE CONT'D

OLD TESTAMENT


The books which make up the Christian Old Testament differ between the Catholic (see Catholic Bible), Orthodox, and Protestant (see Protestant Bible) churches, with the Protestant movement accepting only those books contained in the Hebrew Bible, while Catholic and Orthodox traditions have wider canons. A few groups consider particular translations to be divinely inspired, notably the Greek Septuagint and the Aramaic Peshitta. The Old Testament consists of many distinct books produced over a period of centuries: The first five books – Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, book of Numbers and Deuteronomy – reached their present form in the Persian period (538–332 BC), and their authors were the elite of exilic returnees who controlled the Temple at that time. The books of Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings follow, forming a history of Israel from the Conquest of Canaan to the Siege of Jerusalem c. 587 BC.

These history books make up around half the total content of the Old Testament. Of the remainder, the books of the various prophets – Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and the twelve "minor prophets" – were written between the 8th and 6th centuries BC, with the exceptions of Jonah and Daniel, which were written much later. The "wisdom" books – Job, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Psalms, Song of Solomon – have various dates: Proverbs possibly was completed by the Hellenistic time (332–198 BC), though containing much older material as well; Job completed by the 6th century BC; Ecclesiastes by the 3rd century BC.


Sources;

1) The Cambridge companion to biblical interpretation. Barton, John, 1948– (1st ed.). Cambridge.
2) Eerdmans commentary on the Bible. Dunn, James D. G., 1939–, Rogerson, J. W. (John William), 1935–. Grand Rapids, MI: W.B. Eerdmans. 2003.
3) Crenshaw, James L. (2010). Old Testament wisdom : an introduction (3rd ed.). Louisville, Ky.: Westminster John Knox Press.

THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE CONT'D

Apocryphal or deuterocanonical books

In Eastern Christianity, translations based on the Septuagint still prevail. The Septuagint was generally abandoned in favour of the 10th-century Masoretic Text as the basis for translations of the Old Testament into Western languages. Some modern Western translations since the 14th century make use of the Septuagint to clarify passages in the Masoretic Text, where the Septuagint may preserve a variant reading of the Hebrew text. They also sometimes adopt variants that appear in other texts, e.g., those discovered among the Dead Sea Scrolls.

A number of books which are part of the Peshitta or the Greek Septuagint but are not found in the Hebrew (Rabbinic) Bible (i.e., among the protocanonical books) are often referred to as deuterocanonical books by Roman Catholics referring to a later secondary (i.e., deutero) canon, that canon as fixed definitively by the Council of Trent 1545–1563. It includes 46 books for the Old Testament (45 if Jeremiah and Lamentations are counted as one) and 27 for the New.

Most Protestants term these books as apocrypha. Modern Protestant traditions do not accept the deuterocanonical books as canonical, although Protestant Bibles included them in Apocrypha sections until the 1820s. However, Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches include these books as part of their Old Testament.

Sources:

1) The Masoretic Text and the Dead Sea Scrolls – biblicalarchaeology.org. Retrieved 26 December 2012.

2) "Dead Sea Scrolls" (PDF). Retrieved 6 June 2013.

3) Council of Trent: Decretum de Canonicis Scripturis "Decree Concerning the Canonical Scriptures", from the Council's fourth session, of 4 April 1546: Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent, The Fourth Session, Celebrated on the eighth day of the month of April, in the year 1546, English translation by James Waterworth (London 1848).

4) The Council of Trent confirmed the identical list/canon of sacred scriptures already anciently approved by the Synod of Hippo (Synod of 393), Council of Carthage, 28 August 397, and Council of Florence (originally Council of Basel), Session 11, 4 February 1442 – [Bull of union with the Copts] seventh paragraph down.

5) "Paragraph 120". Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition. Libreria Editrice Vaticana. 2012. Retrieved 6 August 2014.

The Roman Catholic Church recognizes:

Tobit
Judith
1 Maccabees
2 Maccabees
Wisdom
Sirach (or Ecclesiasticus)
Baruch
The Letter of Jeremiah (Baruch Chapter 6)
Greek Additions to Esther (Book of Esther, chapters 10:4–12:6)
The Prayer of Azariah and Song of the Three Holy Children verses 1–68 (Book of Daniel, chapter 3, verses 24–90)
Susanna (Book of Daniel, chapter 13)
Bel and the Dragon (Book of Daniel, chapter 14)

In addition to the above,

The Greek and Russian Orthodox Churches recognize the following:

3 Maccabees
1 Esdras
Prayer of Manasseh
Psalm 151

Russian and Georgian Orthodox Churches include:
2 Esdras i.e., Latin Esdras in the Russian and Georgian Bibles
There is also 4 Maccabees which is only accepted as canonical in the Georgian Church, but was included by St. Jerome in an appendix to the Vulgate, and is an appendix to the Greek Orthodox Bible, and it is therefore sometimes included in collections of the Apocrypha.

The Syriac Orthodox tradition includes:
Psalms 151–155
The Apocalypse of Baruch
The Letter of Baruch


The Ethiopian Biblical canon includes:
Jubilees
Enoch
1–3 Meqabyan
and some other books.


The Anglican Church uses some of the Apocryphal books liturgically, though rarely and with alternative reading available. Therefore, editions of the Bible intended for use in the Anglican Church may include the Deuterocanonical books accepted by the Catholic Church, plus 1 Esdras, 2 Esdras and the Prayer of Manasseh, which were in the Vulgate appendix.

I am patiently waiting for the "66 books is the inspired and complete word of God" crew to tell us the following churches are apostate churches for believing in more than 66 books;

1) Syriac Orthodox Church
2) Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
3) Eastern Orthodox churches
4) Russian Orthodox churches
5) Georgian Orthodox churches
6) The Anglican church
7) The Roman Catholic church
8 ) The Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church

jamesid29:


I would like to suggest probably applying what was written down in scripture by Paul the apostle in 1cor 8: 1-13 about exercising our right to do certain things but not becoming a stumbling block to those whose conscience might be affected. In essence, if so many people feel so strongly about how evil the book is here, I think its just better to let it be and not even defend the book .But when you're amongst other believers who find the book valuable or in someway are open to have just a regular conversation about it, then you can share what you know and learnt with a free mind.

Hmmmmm. This is my conclusion!

I am beginning to regret bringing this thread up. It has stirred quite a lot of dissent, and insults traded around like strings of spaghetti....

In the end, the quote above is what we should really adhere to.

We're all still Christians...

nijabazaar:


Hmmmmm. This is my conclusion!

I am beginning to regret bringing this thread up. It has stirred quite a lot of dissent, and insults traded around like strings of spaghetti....

In the end, the quote above is what we should really adhere to.

We're all still Christians...

Hello there.

It is true that the Bible calls all believers to be at peace with each other:

[1]Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, [2]with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, [3]being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [4]There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; [5]one Lord, one faith, one baptism, [6]one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
Ephesians 4:1-6 NASB

However, this is a command to believers. Among those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, that is, God Who put on Humanity and died for our sins, there are many different kinds of people. There are those who are living rebelliously, loving sin and refusing to take the Truth seriously and grow spiritually. There are those who are growing spiritually but who are at varying stages of development. There are those who have attained spiritual maturity but who are at varying degrees of maturity. There are those who are extremely advanced in their walk with the Lord. This is all true. It is also true that even among the very mature, agreement between believers is not perfect. There is plenty enough that we tend to disagree on, because, after all, we are still in this mortal body. For this reason, the Bible commands us to learn to tolerate each other, to be humble and not prefer our own selves to other believers, to be gentle in the way we treat each other, to be diligent to preserve our unity in the bond of peace, with careful attention given to the desire of the Lord Jesus expressed in His Prayer in John 17:11, 21-23. The Lord wants us to be one. He died for this too. But, as I said, this is a command to believers (compare John 17:9).

There are plenty enough people in this world who masquerade as Christians, not least to lead immature and impressionable believers away from their saving faith in Jesus Christ. That is why the Lord Jesus gave shepherds to the church, that is, pastor-teachers. These shepherds are responsible to protect young believers (that is, believers who have not yet reached spiritual maturity) from such wicked people (John 17:12; 21:15-17; 1 Peter 5:1-3; Acts 20:17-18a, 28; compare Acts 20:29). When these shepherds do their job of protection, it is never a pretty sight. Compare the example of the Lord with the Pharisees, scribes, and priests. Consider Paul's letters to his various charges, not least Galatians 5:12, for example. There is no peace to be had with people who make it a point of duty to mislead the Flock of the Lord Jesus Christ. The wickedness of such people is greater than you may be able to imagine (Luke 17:1-2).

Now, why am I bringing this up here? It is because you suppose that everyone who claims some kind of association with the Bible and with Jesus Christ is a believer. That is a tremendous tragedy. Only those who believe in Jesus Christ, that is, the Man Who was and is God and Who died for us so that we can be saved from the righteous consequences of our sins, are believers. Nobody else is. It does not matter how they sound, how much of the Bible they quote, how they behave. All such people are unbelievers, if they do not believe in the Lord. But if they were only unbelievers, we could pity them and pray that they will receive the Gospel and be saved. Some of them are not content to reject the Lord, however. They also make a sport of preventing weak Christians from following the Lord faithfully and learning who He is, without any trouble, just like the Amalekites did to Israel on their way from Egypt: they kept harassing the weak, the stragglers in the rear, killing weak ones who were trailing behind (Deuteronomy 25:17). This kind of people is abominable to the Lord and to His shepherds. There can never be peace with them (compare Exodus 17:14-16; 1 Samuel 15:2-3 - note God's punishment of Saul in taking from him his position as shepherd over Israel for his failure to carry out God's vengeance against Amalek), unless they repent their wickedness and turn to the Lord.

This thread (and this forum at large) provides such people with an incredible opportunity to attack weak believers. The reason is that there is only one thing that keeps a believer safe in this world: the Truth of God (John 17:15-17). If you feed the children of God lies, they will be poisoned, their spiritual growth will be stunted, and they will have to endure a weak faith, incapable of ever adequately defending themselves against the enemy or amounting to anything significant for their Lord and Master. At worst, they could end up falling away from the faith entirely. Therefore, an effective way for the enemy to harm believers is to infiltrate their ranks with false teachers and rebellious men who attack the Truth, either claiming that it cannot be known, so that everyone is free to make things up as they please, or else claiming that something is Truth when it is not at all. A public forum where anyone can speak without restraint, especially with respect to the Bible, is an incredibly fertile opportunity for the enemy to attack weak believers with incredible lies that would leave more mature Christians completely stupefied to hear.

The Book of Enoch, along with the rest of the pseudepigraphical materials and the Apocrypha, is NOT Truth. If anyone enjoys reading them for their literary value, that is all to the good: anyone can enjoy Homer, Shakespeare, Margaret Atwood, Chinua Achebe, etc. But to persuade believers that it is Scripture is the worst thing to do to a believer. There is nothing worse than this. Whoever offers poison to the children as food will be held accountable for their wickedness. Anyone may enjoy fiction of any sort that they please, but anyone who dares to sell it as truth to the children of God has no idea what awaits them. That is why this cannot be a peaceful thread. It is also why you are wrong to call those who do such wickedness "Christians." If they are saved at all, they are at the door of apostasy. It is unlikely that they are saved at all.

Just as I expected, one of the members of the 66 books crew is implicitly telling us the following churches are apostate churches for believing more than 66 books makes up the scriptures;

1) Syriac Orthodox Church
2) Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
3) Eastern Orthodox churches
4) Russian Orthodox churches
5) Georgian Orthodox churches
6) The Anglican church
7) The Roman Catholic church
8 ) The Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church


I simply wonder why one of the earliest versions of the English Bible had more than 66 books!

Oh well, modern Protestant views on the scriptures are ironically what some fellows hold as the truth
Modern Protestant traditions do not accept the deuterocanonical books as canonical, although Protestant Bibles included them in Apocrypha sections until the 1820s. However, Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches include these books as part of their Old Testament.

Mr Ihedinobi3, how will you proved that the Songs Of Solomon is God's inspired book supposing it was not part of the 66 books?

Mr Solite3 how will you proved that the book of Philemon is God's inspired book supposing it was not part of the 66 books?

nijabazaar:


It has stirred quite a lot of dissent, and insults traded around like strings of spaghetti....

Yeah, that and the fact the thread is steadily marching towards territories that shouldn't be treaded upon lightly is what is bothersome..

There are matters of faith we should definitely fight tooth and nail for without giving up an inch and there are definitely books that should not even be in christain conversations but historically this book is not one of them so it shouldn't be something we start trading insults about.

It is well boss..

I wonder why you'd make out Jesus who said Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; ... For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? , was only asking you to be at peace with believers, especially when he also blessed the peacemakers, and told you to [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A13-16&version=NIV]let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven[/url]!?

Are you just stating your own misunderstanding perhaps?

Ihedinobi3:

Hello there.

It is true that the Bible calls all believers to be at peace with each other:

[1]Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, [2]with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, [3]being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [4]There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; [5]one Lord, one faith, one baptism, [6]one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
Ephesians 4:1-6 NASB

However, this is a command to believers. Among those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, that is, God Who put on Humanity and died for our sins, there are many different kinds of people. There are those who are living rebelliously, loving sin and refusing to take the Truth seriously and grow spiritually. There are those who are growing spiritually but who are at varying stages of development. There are those who have attained spiritual maturity but who are at varying degrees of maturity. There are those who are extremely advanced in their walk with the Lord. This is all true. It is also true that even among the very mature, agreement between believers is not perfect. There is plenty enough that we tend to disagree on, because, after all, we are still in this mortal body. For this reason, the Bible commands us to learn to tolerate each other, to be humble and not prefer our own selves to other believers, to be gentle in the way we treat each other, to be diligent to preserve our unity in the bond of peace, with careful attention given to the desire of the Lord Jesus expressed in His Prayer in John 17:11, 21-23. The Lord wants us to be one. He died for this too. But, as I said, this is a command to believers (compare John 17:9).

There are plenty enough people in this world who masquerade as Christians, not least to lead immature and impressionable believers away from their saving faith in Jesus Christ. That is why the Lord Jesus gave shepherds to the church, that is, pastor-teachers. These shepherds are responsible to protect young believers (that is, believers who have not yet reached spiritual maturity) from such wicked people (John 17:12; 21:15-17; 1 Peter 5:1-3; Acts 20:17-18a, 28; compare Acts 20:29). When these shepherds do their job of protection, it is never a pretty sight. Compare the example of the Lord with the Pharisees, scribes, and priests. Consider Paul's letters to his various charges, not least Galatians 5:12, for example. There is no peace to be had with people who make it a point of duty to mislead the Flock of the Lord Jesus Christ. The wickedness of such people is greater than you may be able to imagine (Luke 17:1-2).

Now, why am I bringing this up here? It is because you suppose that everyone who claims some kind of association with the Bible and with Jesus Christ is a believer. That is a tremendous tragedy. Only those who believe in Jesus Christ, that is, the Man Who was and is God and Who died for us so that we can be saved from the righteous consequences of our sins, are believers. Nobody else is. It does not matter how they sound, how much of the Bible they quote, how they behave. All such people are unbelievers, if they do not believe in the Lord. But if they were only unbelievers, we could pity them and pray that they will receive the Gospel and be saved. Some of them are not content to reject the Lord, however. They also make a sport of preventing weak Christians from following the Lord faithfully and learning who He is, without any trouble, just like the Amalekites did to Israel on their way from Egypt: they kept harassing the weak, the stragglers in the rear, killing weak ones who were trailing behind (Deuteronomy 25:17). This kind of people is abominable to the Lord and to His shepherds. There can never be peace with them (compare Exodus 17:14-16; 1 Samuel 15:2-3 - note God's punishment of Saul in taking from him his position as shepherd over Israel for his failure to carry out God's vengeance against Amalek), unless they repent their wickedness and turn to the Lord.

This thread (and this forum at large) provides such people with an incredible opportunity to attack weak believers. The reason is that there is only one thing that keeps a believer safe in this world: the Truth of God (John 17:15-17). If you feed the children of God lies, they will be poisoned, their spiritual growth will be stunted, and they will have to endure a weak faith, incapable of ever adequately defending themselves against the enemy or amounting to anything significant for their Lord and Master. At worst, they could end up falling away from the faith entirely. Therefore, an effective way for the enemy to harm believers is to infiltrate their ranks with false teachers and rebellious men who attack the Truth, either claiming that it cannot be known, so that everyone is free to make things up as they please, or else claiming that something is Truth when it is not at all. A public forum where anyone can speak without restraint, especially with respect to the Bible, is an incredibly fertile opportunity for the enemy to attack weak believers with incredible lies that would leave more mature Christians completely stupefied to hear.

The Book of Enoch, along with the rest of the pseudepigraphical materials and the Apocrypha, is NOT Truth. If anyone enjoys reading them for their literary value, that is all to the good: anyone can enjoy Homer, Shakespeare, Margaret Atwood, Chinua Achebe, etc. But to persuade believers that it is Scripture is the worst thing to do to a believer. There is nothing worse than this. Whoever offers poison to the children as food will be held accountable for their wickedness. Anyone may enjoy fiction of any sort that they please, but anyone who dares to sell it as truth to the children of God has no idea what awaits them. That is why this cannot be a peaceful thread. It is also why you are wrong to call those who do such wickedness "Christians." If they are saved at all, they are at the door of apostasy. It is unlikely that they are saved at all.

CaveAdullam:
Mr Ihedinobi3, how will you proved that the Songs Of Solomon is God's inspired book supposing it was not part of the 66 books?

Hello.

Although I have not been addressing you on this thread, you've been here, and, given your question, you've seen my responses to other people here. In quite a few of those responses, I repeated several times that one can only know what is Scripture by the presence of life in the Message of the writing. That's it. Any believer can tell if something is Scripture just by reading it. That is how believers have known for millennia which books are inspired and which are not.

In other words, as I told your cohort here, it is not because any book is in the collection accepted by this church or that church or this or that group that we consider it inspired. It is not because the Song of Songs is among the 66 books accepted by Evangelical Protestants that I or any other believer considers it inspired. We consider it inspired because we can sense life in the words of the book. When we read it, itself declares that it is God's very Word. It is on the basis of this testimony that the book makes for itself that God-fearing believers down the ages have accepted them as Scripture. Evangelical Protestants merely accept the witness of the book itself. They did not and do not create canons. The books themselves are the canon.

Lol... I guess the believers in these churches below didn't "sense life" in the other books outside of the 66 books which they also consider scriptures

1) Syriac Orthodox Church
2) Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
3) Eastern Orthodox churches
4) Russian Orthodox churches
5) Georgian Orthodox churches
6) The Anglican church
7) The Roman Catholic church
8 ) The Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church




Oh well..

budaatum:
I wonder why you'd make out Jesus who said Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; ... For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? , was only asking you to be at peace with believers, especially when he also blessed the peacemakers, and told you to [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A13-16&version=NIV]let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven[/url]!?

Are you just stating your own misunderstanding perhaps?

13“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

15“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

16“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, that is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple is obligated.’ 17“You fools and blind men! Which is more important, the gold or the temple that sanctified the gold? 18“And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, that is nothing, but whoever swears by the offering on it, he is obligated.’ 19“You blind men, which is more important, the offering, or the altar that sanctifies the offering? 20“Therefore, whoever swears by the altar, swears both by the altar and by everything on it. 21“And whoever swears by the temple, swears both by the temple and by Him who dwells within it. 22“And whoever swears by heaven, swears both by the throne of God and by Him who sits upon it.

23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. 24“You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

25“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. 26“You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also.

27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28“So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

29“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30and say, ‘If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31“So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32“Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. 33“You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?
Matthew 23:13-32 NASB

1He said to His disciples, “It is inevitable that stumbling blocks come, but woe to him through whom they come! 2“It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than that he would cause one of these little ones to stumble. 3“Be on your guard!
Luke 17:1-3 NASB

9When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
Revelation 6:9-11 NASB

4Then the third angel poured out his bowl into the rivers and the springs of waters; and they became blood. 5And I heard the angel of the waters saying, “Righteous are You, who are and who were, O Holy One, because You judged these things; 6for they poured out the blood of saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink. They deserve it.” 7And I heard the altar saying, “Yes, O Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments.”
Revelation 16:4-7 NASB

But He will be indignant toward His enemies.

15For behold, the LORD will come in fire
And His chariots like the whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.

16For the LORD will execute judgment by fire
And by His sword on all flesh,
And those slain by the LORD will be many.

17“Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens,
Following one in the center,
Who eat swine’s flesh, detestable things and mice,
Will come to an end altogether,” declares the LORD.
Isaiah 66:14c-17 NASB

2“It will come about in that day,” declares the LORD of hosts, “that I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, and they will no longer be remembered; and I will also remove the prophets and the unclean spirit from the land. 3“And if anyone still prophesies, then his father and mother who gave birth to him will say to him, ‘You shall not live, for you have spoken falsely in the name of the LORD’; and his father and mother who gave birth to him will pierce him through when he prophesies. 4“Also it will come about in that day that the prophets will each be ashamed of his vision when he prophesies, and they will not put on a hairy robe in order to deceive; 5but he will say, ‘I am not a prophet; I am a tiller of the ground, for a man sold me as a slave in my youth.’ 6“And one will say to him, ‘What are these wounds between your arms?’ Then he will say, ‘Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.’
Zechariah 13:2-6 NASB

12Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth. 13It will come about in that day that a great panic from the LORD will fall on them; and they will seize one another’s hand, and the hand of one will be lifted against the hand of another. 14Judah also will fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the surrounding nations will be gathered, gold and silver and garments in great abundance. 15So also like this plague will be the plague on the horse, the mule, the camel, the donkey and all the cattle that will be in those camps.
Zechariah 14:12-15 NASB

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. 15From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”

19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

20And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. 21And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Revelation 19:11-21 NASB

The above is only a sampling of Scriptural passages about God's attitude to those who rebel against Him, those who corrupt His Truth and cause others to stumble, and those who persecute and murder His Children. Among them too is one about the prayer of believers who were martyred that the Lord would avenge them upon their murderers. The psalms are full of that kind of thing too.

You are not one of us, budaatum. You're the worst kind of human being there is. You do not want Salvation, and you will not let those who want it have it in peace. You are forever looking for obstacles to throw in the way of those who are on the high road to Jerusalem, if perhaps you can cause some to go lame or be discouraged and turn back. Maybe you will repent one day and submit to the Lord Jesus and be saved. Until then, you are simply building up God's Anger against you, and when He pours it out on you, you will wish that you were never born.

Do I wish for your peace? Why would I give you all the warnings that I constantly give you if I did not? But I am not naive. I am not a fool. So I do not believe that you are a friend of the Lord's or of His People. Therefore, I do not treat you like you are either. That is what is meant by there can be no peace with the likes of you. I certainly cannot do you any harm. What can I do? Even if I knew you in person, the worst thing that I could do to you is to stay as far away from you as I can. I cannot harm you. You are not mine to harm. But if you speak about the Bible and misrepresent the Lord to anyone who will listen to me, then I will oppose you. That is how there is no peace between us. The harm that will come to you will come from the Lord, not from me.

Ihedinobi3:

You are not one of us, budaatum. You're the worst kind of human being there is.You do not want Salvation, and you will not let those who want it have it in peace. You are forever looking for obstacles to throw in the way of those who are on the high road to Jerusalem, if perhaps you can cause some to go lame or be discouraged and turn back. Maybe you will repent one day and submit to the Lord Jesus and be saved. Until then, you are simply building up God's Anger against you, and when He pours it out on you, you will wish that you were never born.

More venom spilling out... from the "best kind of human being there is"

AlexFlemming:


More venom spilling out... from the "best kind of human being there is"

I guess it has to be pointed out to the "best kind of human being there is" sometimes that woe to you Ihedinobi3, the scribe and Pharisee, hypocrites, for you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in!

Ihedinobi3:

Hello.

Although I have not been addressing you on this thread, you've been here, and, given your question, you've seen my responses to other people here. In quite a few of those responses, I repeated several times that one can only know what is Scripture by the presence of life in the Message of the writing.

1. How do we know that the songs of Solomon has life in it?

2. What are the characteristics of this life in the songs of Solomon?

Ihedinobi3:
That's it. Any believer can tell if something is Scripture just by reading it. That is how believers have known for millennia which books are inspired and which are not.

@bolded if broken down into simpler units will indicate that;
1. "If something is scripture".........this is an indication that any book can be scripture if life is in the message of the writing. It also indicates that the life of God's inspired book is not limited to 66 books except you are trying to tell us that the "Life" you are talking about is limited.

2. "Any believer"..........this is an indication that you are wrong or just being sentimental towards believers that hold the book of Enoch with high esteem because they "might have seen the life" you are talking about.

But then again, this can only be proved when you tell us about the "Life in the message of Writing" you are talking about.

Ihedinobi3:
In other words, as I told your cohort here, it is not because any book is in the collection accepted by this church or that church or this or that group that we consider it inspired.

My brother it is good I judge things from the characteristics of the Life you are talking about. But my question;

Since inspired books are not by collections why do you think the life of God in writings is limited to 66 books collections?

Ihedinobi3:
It is not because the Song of Songs is among the 66 books accepted by Evangelical Protestants that I or any other believer considers it inspired. We consider it inspired because we can sense life in the words of the book. When we read it, itself declares that it is God's very Word. It is on the basis of this testimony that the book makes for itself that God-fearing believers down the ages have accepted them as Scripture. Evangelical Protestants merely accept the witness of the book itself. They did not and do not create canons. The books themselves are the canon.

Then back to my original question what is this life exactly?

A new command Christ gives you Ihedinobi3, Love one another, for by this everyone will know that you are Christ's disciples, for these three things remain of the Lord God Almighty, faith, hope and love, but the greatest of these is love one another as Christ the Messiah loves you. Because even though you may speak in the tongues of men or of angels and have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge and even if you have a faith that can move mountains and give all you possess to the poor and give over your body to hardship and boast in your righteousness but do not have love, you are only a resounding gong and a clanging cymbal that reasons as a child and knows only in part but gains nothing and by your fruits will you surely be known.

May the Lord God Almighty give insight and understanding to you Ihedinobi3, in the Mighty Name of Jesus Christ the Lord and Messiah I, buda, pray.

Please I need some help, can someone help me "SENSE LIFE" in these verses?

Songs of Solomon 4 v 1-5;

1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.
2 Thy teeth are like a flock of sheep that are even shorn, which came up from the washing; whereof every one bear twins, and none is barren among them.
3 Thy lips are like a thread of scarlet, and thy speech is comely: thy temples are like a piece of a pomegranate within thy locks.
4 Thy neck is like the tower of David builded for an armoury, whereon there hang a thousand bucklers, all shields of mighty men.
5 Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins, which feed among the lilies.


I'm very curious why this erotic and romantic book is hardly preached from in a typical church today.

CaveAdullam:

1. How do we know that the songs of Solomon has life in it?

2. What are the characteristics of this life in the songs of Solomon?

@bolded if broken down into simpler units will indicate that;
1. "If something is scripture".........this is an indication that any book can be scripture if life is in the message of the writing. It also indicates that the life of God's inspired book is not limited to 66 books except you are trying to tell us that the "Life" you are talking about is limited.

2. "Any believer"..........this is an indication that you are wrong or just being sentimental towards believers that hold the book of Enoch with high esteem because they "might have seen the life" you are talking about.

But then again, this can only be proved when you tell us about the "Life in the message of Writing" you are talking about.

My brother it is good I judge things from the characteristics of the Life you are talking about. But my question;

Since inspired books are not by collections why do you think the life of God in writings is limited to 66 books collections?

Then back to my original question what is this life exactly?

Re: Your questions about Song of Songs.
1. We can know that there is life in any literature or any message if we have life in ourselves too. It is a response of kinship (1 Corinthians 2:9-16; John 10:26-27, compare Romans 8:9). The life which is in Scripture is the same life that believers have as a result of their Faith in Jesus Christ.

2. What are the characteristics of anything which lives?

Re: Your challenges about my statement.
1. I actually said that as long as any literature possesses the Breath of God, that is, life, it is Scripture. That is what makes anything Scripture. I've said that so many times on this thread that I have become a broken record. So, yes, if you can find life in any literature, that makes it Scripture. It certainly doesn't have to be the 66 books that Evangelical Protestants accept, although incidentally it is only those books that believers have found to have this quality. So, it is entirely your own words, not mine, that there are Scriptures besides the 66 books. I know of no other Scriptures outside of those books. No other book possesses the Breath of God in it. But then, you don't have to take mine or anybody else's word for it. You can believe whatever you please.

2. I have no idea how I am wrong or being sentimental here. It is only reasonable to expect that only those who have the same Life as that which is in inspired literature will be able to recognize it in them, so any believer who reads Scripture will recognize it as such. It's that simple. If someone claims to recognize life in any other literature, then I'm not stopping them from treating it as Scripture. They just aren't believers in Jesus Christ, so they don't need to expect believers in Jesus Christ to agree with them. I, like all other believers, cannot detect life in anything outside of those 66 books. It's just not possible for us. So, we are not the same as those who see life everywhere. There's a fundamental difference between us. Mormons have the right idea: they separate themselves from believers (and everyone else, I'll grant) because of their unique ability to detect the Book of Mormons as Scripture. I'm dead certain that no Mormon would be offended if I refuse to identify as a Mormon or to treat them as fellow believers. It should be the same with those who see life everywhere. They don't have to force their ability to see Scripture in every literature on those of us who only see it in the 66 books.

Re: Why I think the life of God is limited only to the 66 books
You mistake me. There is no thinking happening in this matter, any more than there is in your calling a wall a wall and a door a door. I am not thinking that the life of God is limited to 66 books, I simply can't see it anywhere else, and there is a completeness to the 66 books that make it completely unnecessary for me to look for it anywhere else.

Re: What is this Life exactly?
It is just as you said, "the life of God" (John 6:63; Hebrews 4:12).

If the books in my Bible don't follow a chronological arrangement, what was the order in which they were written?
The following list arranges the books of the Bible according to their most probable dates.

Old Testament

Job--Unknown
Genesis--1445-1405 B.C.
Exodus --1445-1405 B.C.
Leviticus --1445-1405 B.C.
Numbers--1445-1405 B.C.
Deuteronomy--1445-1405 B.C.
Psalms--1410-450 B.C.
Joshua--1405-1385 B.C.
Judges--ca. 1043 B.C.
Ruth--ca. 1030-1010 B.C.
Song of Solomon--971-965 B.C.
Proverbs--ca. 971-686 B.C.
Ecclesiastes--940-931 B.C.
1 Samuel--931-722 B.C.
2 Samuel--931-722 B.C.
Obadiah--850-840 B.C.
Joel--835-796 B.C.
Jonah--ca. 775 B.C.
Amos--ca. 750 B.C.
Hosea--750-710 B.C.
Micah--735-710 B.C.
Isaiah--700-681 B.C.
Nahum--ca. 650 B.C.
Zephaniah--635-625 B.C.
Habakkuk--615-605 B.C.
Ezekiel--590-570 B.C.
Lamentations--586 B.C.
Jeremiah--586-570 B.C.
1 Kings--561-538 B.C.
2 Kings--561-538 B.C.
Daniel 536-530 B.C.
Haggai--ca. 520 B.C.
Zechariah--480-470 B.C.
Ezra--457-444 B.C.
1 Chronicles--450-430 B.C.
2 Chronicles--450-430 B.C.
Esther--450-331 B.C.
Malachi--433-424 B.C.
Nehemiah--424-400 B.C.
New Testament

James--A.D. 44-49
Galatians--A.D. 49-50
Matthew--A.D. 50-60
Mark--A.D. 50-60
1 Thessalonians--A.D. 51
2 Thessalonians--A.D. 51-52
1 Corinthians--A.D. 55
2 Corinthians--A.D. 55-56
Romans-- A.D. 56
Luke--A.D. 60-61
Ephesians--A.D. 60-62
Philippians--A.D. 60-62
Philemon--A.D. 60-62
Colossians--A.D. 60-62
Acts--A.D. 62
1 Timothy--A.D. 62-64
Titus--A.D. 62-64
1 Peter--A.D. 64-65
2 Timothy--A.D. 66-67
2 Peter--A.D. 67-68
Hebrews--A.D. 67-69
Jude--A.D. 68-70
John--A.D. 80-90
1 John--A.D. 90-95
2 John--A.D. 90-95
3 John--A.D. 90-95
Revelation--A.D. 94-96

The date in which the books of the bible were written matches the time frame when the authors were alive or atleast close to it.
The book of enoch (a man that was the saventh after Adam) was recorded to be written about 300 BC. This is a clear case of fraud nothing less

CaveAdullam:
Mr Solite3 how will you proved that the book of Philemon is God's inspired book supposing it was not part of the 66 books?

simple The Holy Spirit. The spirit of God determines the true scripture although other evidence may later agree with it

solite3:


If the books in my Bible don't follow a chronological arrangement, what was the order in which they were written?
The following list arranges the books of the Bible according to their most probable dates.

Old Testament

Job--Unknown
Genesis--1445-1405 B.C.
Exodus --1445-1405 B.C.
Leviticus --1445-1405 B.C.
Numbers--1445-1405 B.C.
Deuteronomy--1445-1405 B.C.
Psalms--1410-450 B.C.
Joshua--1405-1385 B.C.

solite.3:


The date in which the books of the bible were written matches the time frame when the authors were alive or atleast close to it.
The book of enoch (a man that was the saventh after Adam) was recorded to be written about 300 BC. This is a clear case of fraud nothing less

The timeline for Psalms seems odd. Was it written at a time close to when Moses & Joshua were alive?

AlexFlemming:



The timeline for Psalms seems odd.

The author must have lived for 960 years and be born just 5 years after the author of Deuteronomy, though I think that's what you should expect from a copy and paster with no brain or Holy Spirit engagement whatsoever.

AlexFlemming:




The timeline for Psalms seems odd. Was it written at a time close to when Moses & Joshua were alive?

Although I think some of the dates are wrong, the Psalms were written by multiple authors over a very long period. Moses wrote psalms that were included in the collection. So did David, so did Solomon, so did Asaph who may have lived around David's time. There were many others at various times. So, the unusual length of the period of writing is not wrong or surprising.

Ihedinobi3:

Re: Your questions about Song of Songs.
1. We can know that there is life in any literature or any message if we have life in ourselves too. It is a response of kinship (1 Corinthians 2:9-16; John 10:26-27, compare Romans 8:9). The life which is in Scripture is the same life that believers have as a result of their Faith in Jesus Christ.

Ok. I have the life of God in me because I have in Jesus Christ my Lord.

2. What are the characteristics of anything which lives?

Ihedinobi3:
Re: Your challenges about my statement.
1. I actually said that as long as any literature possesses the Breath of God, that is, life, it is Scripture. That is what makes anything Scripture. I've said that so many times on this thread that I have become a broken record. So, yes, if you can find life in any literature, that makes it Scripture. It certainly doesn't have to be the 66 books that Evangelical Protestants accept, although incidentally it is only those books that believers have found to have this quality. So, it is entirely your own words, not mine, that there are Scriptures besides the 66 books. I know of no other Scriptures outside of those books. No other book possesses the Breath of God in it. But then, you don't have to take mine or anybody else's word for it. You can believe whatever you please.

one time you said you don't know and another time you came to a conclusion that there is no other book that possess the life of God except the 66 books. Is that not self confusion?

Anyway I have the life of God in me, I have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and I touch life in any literature that has the life of God outside the 66 books of the Bible.

Mr Ihedinobi3 it is not the fault of believers who see life in literatures outside the 66 books of bible. It might be that you are not mature enough spiritually to see the breath of God in them.

You can believe whatever you please and me too. Lol.

Ihedinobi3:
2. I have no idea how I am wrong or being sentimental here. It is only reasonable to expect that only those who have the same Life as that which is in inspired literature will be able to recognize it in them, so any believer who reads Scripture will recognize it as such. It's that simple. If someone claims to recognize life in any other literature, then I'm not stopping them from treating it as Scripture. They just aren't believers in Jesus Christ, so they don't need to expect believers in Jesus Christ to agree with them. I, like all other believers, cannot detect life in anything outside of those 66 books. It's just not possible for us. So, we are not the same as those who see life everywhere. There's a fundamental difference between us. Mormons have the right idea: they separate themselves from believers (and everyone else, I'll grant) because of their unique ability to detect the Book of Mormons as Scripture. I'm dead certain that no Mormon would be offended if I refuse to identify as a Mormon or to treat them as fellow believers. It should be the same with those who see life everywhere. They don't have to force their ability to see Scripture in every literature on those of us who only see it in the 66 books.

people come and see o.

I have life because I have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and if I see life in any other literature outside the 66 books I'm no longer a believer or not a believer. With this statements, are you sure you are not wrong or sentimental Mr Ihedinobi3? Do you even understand what you are saying?

Ihedinobi3:
Re: Why I think the life of God is limited only to the 66 books
You mistake me. There is no thinking happening in this matter, any more than there is in your calling a wall a wall and a door a door. I am not thinking that the life of God is limited to 66 books, I simply can't see it anywhere else,[/b]and there is a completeness to the 66 books that make it completely unnecessary for me to look for it anywhere else.

You don't see it because of your spiritual level and thank God the life of God is not limited to 66 books.

But if you want to see it clearly you can act like Zacchaeus that climb a tree or press forward like the woman with the issues of blood.

Ihedinobi3:
[b]Re: What is this Life exactly?
It is just as you said, "the life of God" (John 6:63; Hebrews 4:12).

Lord God Almighty let thy Holy Spirit in me continually lead me to see your life anywhere and everywhere through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Ihedinobi3:

Although I think some of the dates are wrong, the Psalms were written by multiple authors over a very long period. Moses wrote psalms that were included in the collection. So did David, so did Solomon, so did Asaph who may have lived around David's time. There were many others at various times. So, the unusual length of the period of writing is not wrong or surprising.

Hi, that was an alternate moniker I had to open no thanks to the ban by the anti-spam bot.


Back to the crux of the matter, I’ve learnt something new today. I never knew Moses authored one of the Psalms. I just read Psalms 90 was most likely authored by Moses.

I guess that estimated timeframe by solite3 for Psalms might be right after all.

Thanks for this.

Another observation though, the timeline for Genesis to Deuteronomy is wrong. The books of Moses reached their final state after some editing here and there in the Persian period.

THERE'S NO WAY MOSES COULD HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT HIS OWN DEATH IN DEUTERONOMY 34

CaveAdullam:
Ok. I have the life of God in me because I have in Jesus Christ my Lord.

2. What are the characteristics of anything which lives?

one time you said you don't know and another time you came to a conclusion that there is no other book that possess the life of God except the 66 books. Is that not self confusion?

Anyway I have the life of God in me, I have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and I touch life in any literature that has the life of God outside the 66 books of the Bible.

Mr Ihedinobi3 it is not the fault of believers who see life in literatures outside the 66 books of bible. It might be that you are not mature enough spiritually to see the breath of God in them.

You can believe whatever you please and me too. Lol.

people come and see o.

I have life because I have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and if I see life in any other literature outside the 66 books I'm no longer a believer or not a believer. With this statements, are you sure you are not wrong or sentimental Mr Ihedinobi3? Do you even understand what you are saying?

You don't see it because of your spiritual level and thank God the life of God is not limited to 66 books.

But if you want to see it clearly you can act like Zacchaeus that climb a tree or press forward like the woman with the issues of blood.



Lord God Almighty let thy Holy Spirit in me continually lead me to see your life anywhere and everywhere through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Thank you very much for this.

I will repeat this, God’s word can never be limited to a set of books.

That’s a classic case of mistaking written truth for complete truth.

I wonder where one would classify revelations/prophecies granted by the gift of the Holy Spirit active in prophets living in our time.
Prophecies uttered in our time that came to pass, I wonder if that’s God’s word or man’s word.