Please OP, what chapter and verse of the book of daniel and genesis did you read that made reference the term "watchers"... I want to know please.

@prinzfavian a few verses from Daniel 4


Daniel 4 KJV
13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;

14 He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches:

17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

23 And whereas the king saw a watcher and an holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him;


Cc: nijabazaar, gobuchinny

csomekene:


This is gobuchinny. all my messages are being blocked. did you report me dear ihedioha

i will now begin to show how demonic and perverted you are. did you just say Heb 8 is speaKING to the millemiun church? lets allow scripture do the talking not you, me or your useless pastor/teachers.

Heb 8 'Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “S ee ,” He says, “ that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain .” But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. For finding fault with them, He says, “B ehold , days are coming , says the L ord , W hen I will effect a new covenant W ith the house of I srael and with the house of J udah ; N ot like the covenant which I made with their fathers O n the day when I took them by the hand T o lead them out of the land of E gypt ; F or they did not continue in M y covenant , A nd I did not care for them , says the L ord . F or this is the covenant that I will make with the house of I srael A fter those days , says the L ord : I will put M y laws into their minds , A nd I will write them on their hearts . A nd I will be their G od , A nd they shall be M y people . A nd they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen , A nd everyone his brother , saying , ‘K now the L ord ,’ F or all will know M e , F rom the least to the greatest of them . When He said, “A new covenant, ” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.'

Hebrews 8:1-11,13
https://my.bible.com/bible/100/HEB.8.1-11,13

Get your pen and notepad as you are about to be taught in the school of the Spirit and Yeshua alone will take the glory. verse 6 Yeshua obtained a more excellent ministry by which He is the mediator of a better COVENANT which has been enacted on BETTER PROMISES. For if that first covenant had been faultless there wont have been a need to seek another. For finding fault Yahweh said, the days are coming when i will make a new and better covenant NOT the one He made with them when He brought the,m out of Egypt but THIS IS THE COVENANT HE WILL MAKE, HE WILL PUT HIS LAWS IN THEIR MINDS AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS, HE WILL BE OUR GOD AND WE HIS PEOPLE, THERE WILL BE NO NEED FOR Any to teach them, as God will be the God of all not some. In the old covenant God spoke to a select few like prophets, priests and Kings who had respect to the old covenant but in this days of the new covenant He speaks to ALL. my friend the bible is a book of prophesy and the days God spoke about are now. How can you say its a covenant for the millemium when clearly it speaks firstly of the old and the new. Can you see how evil and wicked you are. YOU ALWAYS PERVERTING SCRIPTURE and judging the scripture like you were consulted before it was written. Any spirit filled believer can read that chapter and quickl;y understand what its saying. The new testament beleiver is not an old testament beleiver where they needed prophets and seers and teachers to direct them but each is a holy nation, royal priesthood. we still have this offices but its not like how it was in the old when the spirit of God was on a select few. we are all Israels and are all to admonish ourselves. The 12 apostles and Paul were the vectors God used to usher in the NT like He used Mosesd to usher in the Old . That y even the apostles kept telling them that they have the spirit of God and need not that any man teach them as they have already been taught the FULL counsel of God. Paul tho he knew he was writing scripture that will be used because remember they were jews and knew how God has been operating from time past. that He uses men to write His will. Yet Paul never Lorded himself or claimed to be an all in all. Paul planted, Apollos watered and God brought the increase. They saw themselves as tools nothing more nothing less but pointed everyone to Yeshua. You are in a place of darkness and soon your cup will be full. You will fall head first if you dont repent from your wickedness.

As regards the KJV, I said its the authentic transalation as i personally dont read any other because i discovered one translation was pub;lished by the same guys that publiushed hustlers magazine. there is a popular witch phrase, as above, so below, one translation uses that when Yehsua prayed the Lords prayer. but NASB is good and infact the best as i just discovered through our discuss. as you can see i used your bveloved NASB and that was y i looked for another example that wont involve translational issues hence my berechais example which NASB and KJV made the errors of saying Zecherais son of Berechsais.

You are like a drowning man that is just trying to stay afloat. i have said nothing wrong and have backed all with scrpiture. the bile is not for anyone personal interpretation and you must compare spiritual with spiritual ie the bible always explains itself. Its because christains dont study to know who they are so when they encounter evil and wicked men like yourself who are wolves in sheep clothing, they can quickly recognize. for the devil is the Father of Lies and his children cant help themselves but lie and pervert scripture like he did to Adam and Eve in the garden where he twisted the words of God and got them to sin.

Even muttey that is an athesist can quickly read that heb8 and understand that God meant the new covenant not the millenium church but i know you will argue this and not accept because if you do it shows your whole foundation is faulty and you really dont know God nor Yeshua His blessed son. for if you cant understand the simplest things about Yeshua and His word how can you eat the very meat of scripture

I did say that you would never admit to any errors. I also told you that my response to your post was not for your benefit.

There is much to be said about Hebrews 8, but I will say just a few things:

1. You lied about what I said. I did not say that the New Covenant is only for the Millennium. I said that the direct teaching of the Lord will only happen during the Millennium as a fruit of the New Covenant.

2. The New Covenant is the basis for the Millennium. Without the Cross, the Kingdom will never be established. Because the Lord Jesus has come and died on the Cross, He has been crowned King of the Earth. But His Kingdom will only be inaugurated in the Millennium. When it is, God's Promises to Israel, including their regathering from the nations, the enlarging of the territory to reach the full extent that God promised Abraham but which Israel has never occupied, and the raising of the Israelite nation to rulership over the nations of the world, will be fulfilled. It is at that same time that the Lord will be teaching the inhabitants of the Earth, especially Israel, the Truth directly. That is what Hebrews 8 teaches.

3. If your interpretation of Hebrews 8 is correct, how does it not violate Isaiah 2:3; Micah 4:2; Ephesians 4 and the passages in John that I pointed out?

4. If we do not need teachers, why do we have them, since you claim that we do have people who have the gift of teaching?

Now, regarding Old and New Covenants, the only difference between the two really is that one looked forward to the other. The Old Covenant believer was a believer who had confidence that the Lord would send a Savior to die for his sins. The New Covenant believer is a believer who has confidence that the Savior has come and died for his sins. That's it. This difference is quite profound because the Advent of the Christ and His Victorious Return to Heaven resulted in the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, so that gifts that had never existed among human beings were given to believers for the first time. This is a big deal, yes, but not in the sense that the New Testament believer is completely different from the Old Covenant believer.

The Old Covenant believer relied on prophets and eventually priests to teach him the Truth. The New Covenant believer relies on the work of the Apostles and prophets to have access to the Truth and on pastor-teachers to teach him the Truth that the Apostles and prophets have written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. There are more gifts in the Church today than before and the Holy Spirit is indwelling believers permanently for the first time, but the New Testament believer is still part of the Church and is called by the Lord to rely on other believers in different ways to grow to spiritual maturity.

The thing that you might not be appreciating is that, as Hebrews 8 and Jeremiah 31 both teach, the New Covenant in the Blood of Jesus produces something more than just an enlarged Church comprising Gentiles disproportionately, it also produces the Millennium which is the time that both passages call "after those days." The Millennium follows the Church Age. That is the time of the Kingdom. After the days of the Church, the Millennium will come when the Lord will take things to a new level. At that time, every human being still living on earth will be taught the Truth by Him personally. This is a different dispensation than the Church Age. It is not now. Today is the Church Age when we learn the Truth with the help of one another. That is why we are told that the Bride readies or prepares herself (Revelation 19:7, compare Ephesians 4:11-13). That is, we all work together to build each other up to full spiritual maturity in preparation for the return of our Bridegroom.

Millennial believers are not part of the Church. They are the complement of the Church, that is, an addition to the Church that is the Lord's Bride, so their dispensation is different. They receive the Truth directly from the Lord, but we receive the Truth today through the agency of pastor-teachers who interpret the revelations given to the Apostles and prophets to write down in the Bible.

As for the KJV, I still don't see what you mean. Are you saying that it is only this "authentic translation" that is inspired? Or are you saying that you made a mistake and there is no inspired KJV translation regardless who you believe published it?

I don't see your answers to the accusations I made against you. You did challenge me to produce evidence of the lies that I charge you with, and I provided a sampling of them. What you have done now is to claim that you are innocent, without providing any proof at all of this innocence.

Nonetheless, I don't quite care. I never expected you either to own up to your errors or to provide proof that you did not lie. I only provided the evidence so that it is clear that you and I are not at all alike and that I am not the liar here. As I said, I own up to my own errors and accept correction where necessary, but then you're not like me.

At this point, I am done with our conversation. You may have an answer, but I think that I will leave things at this point. There is little value that I see in continuing this discussion with you.

Empiree:
All this episode just to prove nonesense, brother?

Episode kor, instalment ni. If not because I am proving what a nonsense person you are, you really are not worth wasting my valuable bullets and precious gun powder upon.

Empiree:
Anyways, @bolded you said Jesus didn't correct those who called him God. Here in this Bible passage they called him "good". Not even God and he rebuked them.

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone Mark 10:18

You really seriously are asking for this education, arent you?

Empiree, please kindly show and tell, where and when did Jesus, leaving no room for confusion and/or doubt admit He is not God, hmm?

Fyi, Jesus said why do you call Me good, meaning, if you know who only and really is good, then please think carefully the implication of your words and/or wording, when you call Me good. It only implies that there must be something striking about Me, which is why you call Me good, an attribute only associate and applicable to God Almighty, lol

Empiree:
Here, Jesus was called Lord and he rebuked them
But Jesus turned and rebuked them Luke 9:55

"⁵¹The time was coming closer for Jesus to be taken to heaven. So he was determined to go to Jerusalem.
⁵²He sent messengers ahead of him. They went into a Samaritan village to arrange a place for him to stay.
⁵³But the people didn't welcome him, because he was on his way to Jerusalem.
⁵⁴James and John, his disciples, saw this. They asked, "Lord, do you want us to call down fire from heaven to burn them up?"
⁵⁵But he turned and corrected them.
⁵⁶So they went to another village."
Luke 9:51-56

Nwanne, Mister Empiree, Alfa wey no get bia-bia, liar, liar pants on fire, Alfa ti o mọ Ọlọun, Alfa wey no sabi God, Alfa wey be say, na only that moon god allah, you sabi, lol. Empiree, let me explain to you, how to properly read, interprete and understand the Bible, I'll then afterwards, finally clear you on Luke 9:55, this will in the future stop you from appearing to come across as an ignoranus and/or look like a dunce. No offense or insult intended, just saying, should in case my last comment gets interpreted that way

Now Empiree, first, dont again, give my that insolent "all this episode, just to prove nonesense, brother" sic and bad-mannered comment, OK? Instead of your flippant remarks, what I want from you, is learn some perfect and great examples on how to properly read, interprete and understand the Bible. One of the first important thing to learn, is about the the phrase: "Context is King". Empiree, this has to do with, do not read bible verses in isolation. Never again, do that. When you read a bible verse in isolation, like you did with Luke 9:55, you're reading it under pretext and deceiving yourself with interpreting the import of message in the text wrongly, like you just did with Luke 9:55, in past, lol.

Empiree, you took the biblical text, Luke 9:55, out of context, and when people like you, make the mistake of quoting a bible text out of context, they are nine times out of ten, quoting the verse, understanding and interpreting it under pretext and not in context, lol.

I have taken the liberty to above, reproduce Luke 9:55 in context, meaning, reproduce Luke 9:55 with surrounding bible verses, so has to contextually understand what Luke 9:55 is about, how we got to Luke 9:55 and most importantly what really is Luke 9:55 saying and/or did Luke 9:55 say, lol.

Empiree, here is, where with rapt attention, you get your pen and paper ready, lol. Dont weep, just simply learn, OK? The disciples because the Samaritians did not give Jesus a welcome, were asking Jesus that does He want them to command fire to come down from heaven and consume the Samaritians for rejecting Jesus and not giving Him face, but Jesus in Luke 9:55, turned round and lectured the disciples. He, in the same Luke 9:55, paraphrasingly said, "Haba, kilo de, Dont you know what Spirit you are of, a son/daughter of God wouldnt behave like that to others, calm down, I did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them"

Empiree, do you now see how you took the Luke 9:55 biblical text, out of context? You interpreted Luke 9:55, out of context. You in full swing pretext interpreted the import of the verse wrongly. What kind of foul spirit Empiree, are you made of, to want to be doing something bad, evil and misleading like that, hmm?

Empiree:
You have nothing to stand on, bro. Read 90 Verses That Say: Jesus is Not God Nor the Literal Son of God

[img]https://s3/images/ObamaMuttley.gif[/img]

Empiree, Empiree, Empiree, please dont go barmy on me. Why should I go read "90 Verses That Say: Jesus is Not God Nor the Literal Son of God". Is it because, you are incapable of having your own original thought? Is it because you're unable to do your own careful thinking, unable to, by yourself and with God, process and form original thoughts in your own mind ni? Is that why you need a "90 Verses That Say: Jesus is Not God Nor the Literal Son of God" crutch to lean on, huh? Is that why you're sign posting me, to go read some lousy and tired "90 Verses That Say: Jesus is Not God Nor the Literal Son of God" that is full of boring, dumb, uninteresting, uninspiring, bad and inferior quality stuff, erhn?

I'll be a multi billionaire and over, by now, if I was to be given a pound for everytime, our fellow muslim brothers, advance "90 Verses That Say: Jesus is Not God Nor the Literal Son of God" for a showdown, just like you Empiree have done here, lol.

Let me be fair and just with you. Here, listen up Empiree, I am going to give you, an opportunity to shine, to be a star for the Islam cause and hero for our mutual fellow muslim brothers, lol. Here's the deal Empiree. Why dont you, select your best verse out of "90 Verses That Say: Jesus is Not God Nor the Literal Son of God," then table it here, and lets examine and critique it together. This is not a hard bargain, it is a good offer Empiree, I can't be and/or say fairer than that.

Empiree:
Again, you cancelled out this Bible verse which contradicts your creed.

John 5:37
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape

Read my lips Empiree, I'll forever cancel and/or cross out whatever and whenever you write things the bible never said nor means

What is your problem, huh Empiree? What part of, it is not impossible for God to simultaneously be in more than one place at a time (i.e. meaning it is not something impossible for God to do, as in, be in Heaven and be on earth, at the same time), didnt you understand. What dont you understand in, it is perfectly and easily possible for God, be in Heaven as God the Father and be on earth, at the same time, as Jesus Christ, hmm?. Smh. Face palm.

Fyi, John 5:37, doesnt contradict anything, rather it reinforces. If you know, you know, but if you no know, like someone like you, you no go know. Sorry, peele, "ku afara da". Gently retreat to a corner, there, go lick and attend to your bruises

Empiree, read John 5:18, then weep and wail, lol. It is going to daze you and confuse your mind the more, lol

Ihedinobi3:

That is, they gave God two options and told Him to pick one. There is nothing in there that even looks like a request for counsel. What if God didn't want any of the two that they chose? What then?

Listen to yourself, ihe. "They gave God two options"!

Even if its true, that is what is written in your own Bible, don't you have enough sense to consider that you might have been reading a bad copy if you can't at least humble yourself and seek understanding?

Ihedinobi3:
That is, they gave God two options and told Him to pick one. There is nothing in there that even looks like a request for counsel. What if God didn't want any of the two that they chose? What then?

Yep, "... gave God two options ..." It is always the case like that and not unusual to then after, expect and/or leave God, to pick up and fix the pieces, lol. They say God is bad, God is wicked, God is cruel, God is inconsiderate, God is careless, when all God ever does is Good. This sentiment is perfectly encapsulated in Jeremiah 29:11, that says: "For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end".

prinzfavian:
Please OP, what chapter and verse of the book of daniel and genesis did you read that made reference the term "watchers"... I want to know please.

prinzfavian, for your information, that accursed book of Enoch, is very skilled and/or proficient. The author(s) of the book(s) before the Chinese, had perfected the art of reverse engineering. You will find body of terms, and/or expressions already in the bible used in that accursed book of Enoch. Biblical phrases, and even Jesus' sayings are slipped inside that deceitful, fraudulent and Machiavellian book of Enoch, whose evil intent is the end that jusifies the author(s)' dark, demonic, diabolical, misleading and ungodly means
cc: nijabazaar

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MuttleyLaff:
Yep, "... gave God two options ..." It is always the case like that and not unusual to then after, expect and/or leave God, to pick up and fix the pieces, lol. They say God is bad, God is wicked, God is cruel, God is inconsiderate, God is careless, when all God ever does is Good. This sentiment is perfectly encapsulated in Jeremiah 29:11, that says: "For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end".

Some yeye apostles are telling God Almighty to choose out of two options?

Words must blind you!

MuttleyLaff:
Episode kor, instalment ni.

I am just reluctant to reply you bcuz you dont seem to read yourself before posting. You are very boring, sir. First, with respect to But Jesus turned and rebuked them Luke 9:55, the context which you cited really makes no sense. Jesus clearly rebuked them for calling him Lord. Draggin this with you over and over seems to be long winded argument.

Second, "epistle" not "episode" was my intended post.

Third, you insist Jesus is God, now, if that's the case, why don't all christians believe the same?. Don't pretend as if there are no christians who don't believe Jesus is not God. There are christians who don't believe He is. Are they reading different bible?. From this 8 mins video, 4 christians were asked if Jesus is God?. Two of them said he is God. Two of them said he is not God. Question is, why is there major differences in your creed?. Are they reading different Bible?. But if you ask muslim if Muhammad is God we will all say NO. If you ask us muslims if Jesus is God, we will say NO. No muslim on earth would have difference of opinion.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grDPJmb3gAs&t=30s


Now, ponder over this verse where Jesus acknowledged there is Superior Being Greater than him and He is the ONLY God.


Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" John 20:17

Now, try to twist this as well

prinzfavian, for your information, that accursed book of Enoch, is very skilled and/or proficient. The author(s) of the book(s) before the Chinese, had perfected the art of reverse engineering. You will find body of terms, and/or expressions already in the bible used in that accursed book of Enoch. Biblical phrases, and even Jesus' sayings are slipped inside that deceitful, fraudulent and Machiavellian book of Enoch, whose evil intent is the end that jusifies the author(s)' dark, demonic, diabolical, misleading and ungodly means. Don’t be fooled by the book looking helpful and harmless. It is a careless, reckless and ill-informed book and so the devil is in the details.

fao prinzfavian and cc'ed nijabazaar, please if need to, quote this post and not the one above because if you do, might get a posting ban for using it.

@prinzfavian, don’t be fooled by Muttley who claims to have read the scriptures and still peddles falsehood of God having nothing against consenting monogamous homosexuals.

Back to the matter of the book of Enoch, I’d really wonder what that book was doing alongside other books of the scriptures discovered within the ancient Dead Sea scrolls at Qumran.

The Ethiopian Bible which is among the oldest bibles in the world also has the book of Enoch in it.

Jude and Peter also made reference to that material which Muttley fraudulently claims they did so to denigrate the book, whereas Peter and Jude were corroborating and enforcing the fact that indeed angels did sleep with women, birthed the Nephilims and were punished for it. These angels are bound and currently awaiting judgement as Peter and Jude affirmed.

budaatum:
Some yeye apostles are telling God Almighty to choose out of two options?
Words must blind you!

"¹In my first book, O Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach,
²until the day He was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles He had chosen.
³After His suffering, He presented Himself to them with many convincing proofs that He was alive. He appeared to them over a span of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.
⁴And while they were gathered together, He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss.
⁵For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit

¹²Then they returned to Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives, which is near the city, a Sabbath day’s journey away.
¹³When they arrived, they went to the upper room where they were staying: Peter and John, James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James.
¹⁴With one accord they all continued in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers
¹⁵And in these days, Peter having stood up in the midst of the brothers, and the number of names was about a hundred twenty together, the same said,
¹⁶“Men, brothers, it was necessary for the Scripture to have been fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, the one having become guide to those having arrested Jesus.
¹⁷For he was numbered with us, and was allotted a share of this ministry.”
¹⁸(Then indeed this man acquired a field out of the reward of unrighteousness, and having fallen headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his intestines gushed out.
¹⁹And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem, so that that field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
²⁰“For it has been written in the book of Psalms:
‘Let his homestead become desolate, and let there be not one dwelling in it, and, ‘Let another take his position.
²¹Therefore it behooves the men having accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us,
²²having begun from the baptism of John until the day in which He was taken up from us, one of these, to become a witness with us of His resurrection.”
²³And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was called Justus, and Matthias.
²⁴And having prayed, they said, “You Lord, knower of the hearts of all, show which one of these two You have chosen
²⁵to take the place of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas turned aside to go to the own place.”
²⁶And they gave lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles"
- Acts 1:1-5, 12-26

¹⁴Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, lifted up his voice, and addressed the crowd: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and listen carefully to my words.
¹⁵These men are not drunk as you suppose. It is only the third hour of the day!
¹⁶No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: "
- Acts 2:14-16

budaatum, tbh, bearing Acts 1:1-5, 12-26 above in mind, I believe the process of selecting Matthias happened somewhere lost in the story, meaning somewhere lost in Acts chapter 2, after when the Holy Spirit had descended on the disciples like as if a dove. This I so believe because of Acts 2:14-16 above and particularly the "Then Peter stood up with the Eleven" comment.

I stand by my earlier comment, that, it is always the case like that and not unusual to drop the ball, then after, expect and/or leave God, to pick it up and kick the ball in goal for us. Though the disciples were within their old school rights to play lottery with chosing lots, I dont read them being moved by the Holy Spirit to do this nor see the Holy Spirit instigating it

As far as I know, a prologue, often is used to give readers extra information that advances a plot, and so is included in the front matter and for a good reason. I dont know why Paul inserted the disciple replacement in front

@budaatum, remember Jesus handed over the keys of the kingdom to Peter. Whatever was bound or loosed on earth, same happened in heaven.

The 11 apostles also committed this to God before Matthias was selected.

Where and how people get this twisted interpretation that Jesus called Paul as a replacement for Judas amazes me.


I wonder why we can’t get one scriptural evidence of the Holy Spirit rejecting Matthias’ apostleship.

Empiree, Jesus Christ didn't rebuke those people for calling him Lord, He did rebuke them for having the mind of calling down fire on those He came to save. To clear your doubt as to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, John 13 will help you out

Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
John:13:13
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
John:13:14.

So, Jesus Christ is both Lord and Master over all!!

Empiree:
I am just reluctant to reply you bcuz you dont seem to read yourself before posting. You are very boring, sir. First, with respect to But Jesus turned and rebuked them Luke 9:55, the context which you cited really makes no sense. [b]Jesus clearly rebuked them for calling him Lord. [/b]Draggin this with you over and over seems to be long winded argument.

Second, "epistle" not "episode" was my intended post.

Third, you insist Jesus is God, now, if that's the case, why don't all christians believe the same?. Don't pretend as if there are no christians who don't believe Jesus is not God. There are christians who don't believe He is. Are they reading different bible?. From this 8 mins video, 4 christians were asked if Jesus is God?. Two of them said he is God. Two of them said he is not God. Question is, why is there major differences in your creed?. Are they reading different Bible?. But if you ask muslim if Muhammad is God we will all say NO. If you ask us muslims if Jesus is God, we will say NO. No muslim on earth would have difference of opinion.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grDPJmb3gAs&t=30s


Now, ponder over this verse where Jesus acknowledged there is Superior Being Greater than him and He is the ONLY God.


Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" John 20:17

Now, try to twist this as well

Empiree:
I am just reluctant to reply you bcuz you dont seem to read yourself before posting. You are very boring, sir. First, with respect to But Jesus turned and rebuked them Luke 9:55, the context which you cited really makes no sense. Jesus clearly rebuked them for calling him Lord. Draggin this with you over and over seems to be long winded argument.

You're such a shameless barefaced liar,

How do you sleep with yourself and your missus at night, the way you blatantly lied here, that Jesus clearly rebuked the disciples for calling him Lord. I detest liars, dishonest, untruthful and insincere people. I am sure that Bodydialect57 read how you knowingly told this your stinkingly bad lie and shook her head at you for your dishonesty.

Empiree:
Second, "epistle" not "episode" was my intended post.

You're nothing but a time waster, time stealer and time killer. You're a complete and kofam total distraction. Mtcheew. What a big mistake to be engaging you

Empiree:
Third, you insist Jesus is God, now, if that's the case, why don't all christians believe the same?. Don't pretend as if there are no christians who don't believe Jesus is not God. There are christians who don't believe He is. Are they reading different bible?. From this 8 mins video, 4 christians were asked if Jesus is God?. Two of them said he is God. Two of them said he is not God. Question is, why is there major differences in your creed?. Are they reading different Bible?. But if you ask muslim if Muhammad is God we will all say NO. If you ask us muslims if Jesus is God, we will say NO. No muslim on earth would have difference of opinion.

What a lame and dumb question to ask.

Empiree, look at your fingers, are they, all, equal in length? Before it gets to, seems to be long winded for you, need I go on? Need I say more? So I rest my case. Smh.

Empiree:
h t tps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grDPJmb3gAs&t=30s

Stop this bad habit of sign posting me to other people's arguments and other people's original work. This is between you, I, and the contents in the Bible, so stop bringing in your third party assistants to help you get a leg up and gain unmerited mileage. Are you incapable of having your own original thought ni? Is it because you're unable to do your own careful thinking? You are unable to, and with God, process and form original thoughts in your own mind by yoursel? Cant you fight your corner without introducing in third parties ni? Articulate your opinions by yourself, stop parroting or regurgitating other people's arguments and/or website literary works to me

Empiree:
Now, ponder over this verse where Jesus acknowledged there is Superior Being Greater than him and He is the ONLY God.

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" John 20:17

Now, try to twist this as well

You still dont get it Empiree. There is nothing and no need for twisting anything here.

If it is possible for God to simultaneously be in more than one place at a time (i.e. meaning it is something possible for God to do, as in, be in Heaven and be on earth, at the same time), and it is perfectly and easily possible for God, be in Heaven as God the Father and be on earth, at the same time, as Jesus Christ, then simple common sense Empiree, will let you know that sons are always answerable to fathers. There is no exception to this rule, when it came to the Father and the Son. Ah, you wouldnt understand this Empiree, because it's hard, tough meat for you. Please go away Empiree, because you're dishonest, insincere, you knowingly tell lies and you cramp my style.

To Whom It May Concern.

From the passages in Matthew and Revelation that I posted earlier, it is clear that the Apostles of the Lamb can only always be Twelve, since they are actually the Millennial Rulers of the Twelve Tribes of Israel and they are the Twelve Foundations of the New Jerusalem in the Eternal State.

Clearly, Judas is not one of them, since he betrayed the Lord Jesus, and was never really a believer to begin with (John 6:70). He was chosen only to fulfill the Scriptures and make the Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus happen.

In other words, whenever the Scriptures refer to the Apostles as a single unit, it does so by calling them "the Apostles" or "the Twelve." This is seen too in Luke and Acts. When Judas fell, this only changed to "the eleven" in Luke and Acts to draw attention to the legitimate members of the unit.

So, when, for example, the lots were cast in Acts 1, we see that Matthias was "voted down with the eleven" (as the translation more correctly) reads, Luke makes the point of saying that they were still eleven in spite of the vote. That is to say that Luke was pointing out that the vote did not make them twelve. He was also pointing out with the "voted down" or "fell upon" (not the best translation there) phrase that this was a condemned vote for the Apostles. That is, the vote was one that joined Matthias with them in condemnation.

In Acts 2, Luke goes on to make the point again that they were still eleven by saying that Peter stood up among "the eleven," rather than "the Twelve" because they were still eleven. He only calls them "the Twelve" again as a college or a unit in the matter of the appointment of the deacons, not because they were complete, but because they were acting just like the Apostles that they were, the Foundations of the Church.

It is true that we will not see it explicitly stated that Matthias was not a legitimate replacement for Judas or that Paul was. But the principles are quite clear:

1. It is the Lord Jesus Who appointed Apostles (John 6:70; Mark 3:14).

2. The Lord Jesus did not appoint Matthias.

3. The Lord Jesus called Paul in the same way that He called the other Apostles.

4. The Principle of the double portion is profoundly accomplished in Paul who worked harder than the other eleven (1 Corinthians 15:10).

The fact that something is not stated explicitly in the Bible does not mean that it is not in the Bible. It does put plenty in the realm of interpretation, and it is true that an interpretation, such as the one I have just made, can be wrong, but the fact that it is an interpretation does not make it false. In fact, apart from some basic truths in the Bible, the vast majority of biblical teachings are only accessible through interpretation. This is why the Lord gave pastor-teachers to the Church. They are the only ones who possess the spiritual ability to see the meaning of the text and make them apparent to anyone who is willing to listen to them. And they can only do so after having attained spiritual maturity themselves and done some work of preparation to teach.

So, although not everyone does agree that this is the case, I am convinced that Paul was the twelfth Apostle selected and appointed by the Lord to replace Judas, not Matthias who was voted into office in the wrong way by the disciples before the Holy Spirit was given to the Church.

As I always say, no one is required to believe or agree with me. This is only to attempt to clarify that this is something that I have studied and explored from all the angles that it has been so far addressed and challenged in this thread, and even beyond the questions and speculations so far advanced. It should be obvious from some things that I have said that this is true.

Going by the post above, there was no point in Jesus handing over the keys of the kingdom to Peter then.

I guess the decision of the apostle to select Matthias as one of the 12 to replace Judas was rejected by Heaven...thus invalidating Jesus’ delegation of authority to Peter that whatever was bound or loosed on earth, same happened in Heaven.


Until we see where precisely in the scriptures Jesus appointed Paul FOR THE PURPOSE OF REPLACING JUDAS, and where the HOLY SPIRIT REJECTED MATTHIAS’ apostleship, anything apart from that is based on conjectures.


Heck! Even Barnabas was set apart and commissioned by the Holy Spirit too, why isn’t he considered as the 12th apostle of the lamb? Nonsense.

Acts 1 v 26;


26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

An interesting piece to consider.


The New Testament nowhere condones or condemns the way the apostles made the decision in Acts 1. Casting lots was a biblically allowed method of making a decision (Proverbs 16:33). And, while Matthias is never again mentioned in the New Testament, the same can be said for most of the other 11 apostles. Church history records that Matthias died as a martyr for Christ, as did all of the other apostles, except John. Yes, Paul was definitely more prominent than Matthias, but Paul was more prominent than any of the 12 apostles, except for perhaps Peter and John. Also, Paul would not have been qualified based on the apostles’ criteria (Acts 1:21-22). So, a conclusive biblical case cannot be made for the 11 apostles’ choice of Matthias being invalid.

Further, God is sovereign. If it was not His sovereign will for Matthias to be chosen, Matthias would not have been chosen. It could be argued that, while it was God’s sovereign will (what He ordained) for Matthias to be chosen, it was God’s perfect will (what He desired) for the apostles to wait for Paul. But, this would be pure speculation, as, again, the Bible nowhere condemns Matthias being chosen for the 12th apostle.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Matthias-Judas-Paul.html

Bodydialect57:
Empiree, Jesus Christ didn't rebuke those people for calling him Lord, He did rebuke them for having the mind of calling down fire on those He came to save. To clear your doubt as to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, John 13 will help you out

Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
John:13:13
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
John:13:14.

So, Jesus Christ is both Lord and Master over all!!

Okay, but you have a problem them. This is John you quoted. which means John wrote this or brought it not Jesus. This is hearsays. Question is, where in the entire bible Jesus said unequivocally said that "I am God worship me". I said in my earlier post that not all christians believe Jesus is God. Why is a part of christians believe but others don't believe Jesus is God while in fact, you read the same Bible?. This means for you to believe Jesus is God is based on your interpretation not universal belief of the christians. Why is that?

Dont think for a second I am confused. Why dont you address two verses I quoted and you only used isolated passage to back your point. Here is the verse again.

And the Father who sent me has Himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, John 5:37

In case you get confused because Bible writer confused you guys. Look at the verse above indicates TWO SEPARATE ENTITIES. The second part of the verse says nobody ever saw God but they saw Jesus. Now explain yourself without consuming this page.


I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me." John 8:18

MuttleyLaff:
You're such a shameless barefaced liar,

How do you sleep with yourself and your missus at night, the way you blatantly lied here, that Jesus clearly rebuked the disciples for calling him Lord. I detest liars, dishonest, untruthful and insincere people. I am sure that Bodydialect57 read how you knowingly told this your stinkingly bad lie and shook her head at you for your dishonesty.

You're nothing but a time waster, time stealer and time killer. You're a complete and kofam total distraction. Mtcheew. What a big mistake to be engaging you

You have turned this to insult bcus you can't defend your position. I will call it a day with you. The dude you cited only used one isolated verse to prove his point. My question still remain, if all christians read the same bible why do christians differ on who Jesus really is?. Why is the confusion amongst yourselves?. It is clear from the video i posted. Is Jesus God or man or God and man at the same time?

If you are here to argue who Jesus Christ is, then, you won't understand even if the whole scriptures attesting His Lordship are cited here cos you are on the other side of the divide. It's not a revelation brought about by flesh and blood, its spiritually discerned.

Empiree:
Okay, but you have a problem them. This is John you quoted. which means John wrote this or brought it not Jesus. This is hearsays. Question is, where in the entire bible Jesus said unequivocally said that "I am God worship me". I said in my earlier post that not all christians believe Jesus is God. Why is a part of christians believe but others don't believe Jesus is God while in fact, you read the same Bible?. This means for you to believe Jesus is God is based on your interpretation not universal belief of the christians. Why is that?

Dont think for a second I am confused. Why dont you address two verses I quoted and you only used isolated passage to back your point. Here is the verse again.

And the Father who sent me has Himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, John 5:37

In case you get confused because Bible writer confused you guys. Look at the verse above indicates TWO SEPARATE ENTITIES. The second part of the verse says nobody ever saw God but they saw Jesus. Now explain yourself without consuming this page.


I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me." John 8:18

The Lord Jesus gave not just to Peter but to the whole Church the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. Those keys are the Gospel. With the Gospel, captives of Satan are set free to become part of the Kingdom of God's Dear Son. And when the Gospel is rejected, those who rejected are bound over to condemnation.

Barnabas was like many other believers whom the Lord gave as secondary apostles to accompany the Apostles and aid them in their work of establishing churches across the world. Silas was another. Apollos was another. John Mark too was another. There were very many. But the Twelve were special. They were those with ranking authority over all the Church.

My argument is not that Paul was more visible than Matthias. It is that Matthias was selected by men who did not know better at the time. If he was an apostle, then he was certainly the only believer in history who received a spiritual ministry through human election. Every other believer received their spiritual gift and ministry directly from the Lord.

In fact, considering that the Apostles only became Apostles in actuality after the Pentecost, because that was when spiritual gifts were given to the Church, it is incredible that Matthias should have been elected as an Apostle without the spiritual gift to boot.

God is not limited to whatever men do. He has every right to do as He pleases, and when we act foolishly, He is not then bound to honor our foolishness. As the Lord Jesus went on to prove, He could find another perfectly suited to the task, even if that one was not even a believer when the other Apostles were chosen. The Lord does as He pleases. And He did in this case. He chose His Own man at the time that He intended, and a prior election was not binding upon His Own Sovereign Choice.

Facepalm, another joke.

The keys to the kingdom means the gospel?

I’ll be back to hear more jokes later today.
Perhaps Jesus never called Barnabas or Apollos...other men did.

Let me also turn a blind eye to the other 70 Jesus called and commissioned in Luke.

If we can’t show one scripture where the Holy Spirit rejected Matthias’ apostleship, or where Jesus called Paul for the purpose of replacing Judas, all these claims are nothing but a joke.

MuttleyLaff:

I stand by my earlier comment, that, it is always the case like that and not unusual to drop the ball, then after, expect and/or leave God, to pick it up and kick the ball in goal for us.

Honestly? I think you just post plenty word thinking it would beffudle the mind and one wouldn't note you are saying nonsense when the truth is you are saying nonsense to hide the truth from yourself!

How, mutt, does the above mean, "giving the Lord Almighty a choice"?

Note Ihe sliding away from his claim that God chooses between options given to God by apostles!

Ihedinobi3:
The Lord does as He pleases. And He did in this case. He chose His Own man at the time that He intended, and a prior election was not binding upon His Own Sovereign Choice.

budaatum:

Honestly? I think you just post plenty word thinking it would beffudle the mind and one wouldn't note you are saying nonsense when the truth is you are saying nonsense to hide the truth from yourself!

How, mutt, does the above mean, "giving the Lord Almighty a choice"?

At the bolded, you’re spot on.

budaatum:

...
Note Ihe sliding away from his claim that God chooses between options given to God by apostles!

It doesn't surprise me that you do things like the above. If you can read something clear in the Bible and insist that it means something completely different, it's not surprising that you'll read my post and say the above. Still, your dishonesty still reaches depths that manage to surprise me a little.

What could I mean other than that God is not bound by an election that He didn't sanction, just because the eleven were involved and because they prayed before concluding it? How on Earth can anyone read what I wrote and interpret it in the manner that you just did?

For clarity, for those who can be as confused as you manage somehow to be with extremely simple things, I said that an election by the 120 disciples in Acts 1 is not binding on the Sovereign God Who is free to do as He pleases. And this God did do as He pleased and selected and appointed Paul to be the 12th Apostle in replacement of Judas.

I've acknowledged you, as you seem to have been angling for. I wonder what next you're going to throw up to continue to get responses from me.

Ihedinobi3:


What could I mean other than that God is not bound by an election that He didn't sanction, just because the eleven were involved and because they prayed before concluding it? How on Earth can anyone read what I wrote and interpret it in the manner that you just did?

What you wrote is very clear for everyone to read Ihe, please. How do apostles give God options to pick from?

God was given options to choose from... Me think me've heard it all, but me was terribly amiss.

budaatum:

What you wrote is very clear for everyone to read Ihe, please. How do apostles give God options to pick from?

I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying that the 120 disciples did not give God two options to choose from?

[23]So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias. [24]And they prayed and said, "You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen [25]to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place."
Acts 1:23-25 NASB

Did the 120 not put forward two men and ask the Lord to show which of them He had chosen to replace Judas? What is that called exactly, if I am wrong in saying that they gave the Lord two options to choose from?

How confused can you get?