englishmart:
1.Jesus is the only way to God, John 14:6
This invariably means those who don't believe in Jesus have no business in heaven.
Christians worldwide have an estimated population of 2.4billion people
Islam records an estimate of 1.9 billion adherents, Hindu has an estimated 1.1bn adherents. The remaining world's population have their own beliefs which includes atheism.
If Jesus is the only way to God, what happens to those who don't believe in him? Hell? Well, the Bible suggests so.

2. There are a lot of complications and contradictory remarks in the Bible- a verse says don't drink, another says "Drink for your stomach sake", or "Do not drink wherein excess."
Malachi 3:10 a famous Bible verse on tithing speaks about bringing your tithe to the storehouse (church, maybe)
Deuteronomy 14:22-26 says otherwise, it says "you should drink and be merry with your tithe". I'm seriously beginning to doubt the credibility of the Bible. Maybe the translators' fault or God told writers different stories on the same issue. Read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John's account of Jesus and see real contradictions.

3. Does God answer prayers? Well, I'm not really sure about that. Someone might be suffering from malaria, the person takes drugs and still prays, the drugs work, but the person thanks God. Or a successful surgical operation, instead of thanking the doctor, they thank God. Some illnesses that would have been treated led to deaths because a certain congregation who were supposed to take the ill persons to the hospital, circled around praying. Faith without work isn't it still dead?
I remember when I had stomach ulcer, it was really terrible, I prayed and made several promises to God that if He took away the ulcer, I'd drink no more alcohol and will be more devout in worshipping Him. That didn't solve anything though, I stopped drinking and took to taking my drugs more seriously. Weeks later, I was well. I returned to drinking and after a few months, the ulcer resurfaced. That was when I realized I really needed to quit drinking. Prayers wouldn't have solved that issue.
I spent 80% of 2019 at home because of my misgivings about God's existence.
I really wish I could be convinced about God's existence because I'm not even happy to be away from Church because of the views of friends and family.

4. Children of God, or so called children of God tend to suffer more tribulations, hard times and desperate moments, a lot of them scream "Vanity upon Vanity" when secular people live in luxury or spend extravagantly. God tends to turn his back on those who worship Him especially when they need Him most.
The 1933 Holocaust and mass murder of Jews to the tone of 6m was a clear indication that God turns His eyes against His people
Repulsive comments are highly welcome

englishmart:
It's not made up.

englishmart:
1.Jesus is the only way to God, John 14:6
This invariably means those who don't believe in Jesus have no business in heaven.
Christians worldwide have an estimated population of 2.4billion people
Islam records an estimate of 1.9 billion adherents, Hindu has an estimated 1.1bn adherents. The remaining world's population have their own beliefs which includes atheism.
If Jesus is the only way to God, what happens to those who don't believe in him? Hell? Well, the Bible suggests so.

2. There are a lot of complications and contradictory remarks in the Bible- a verse says don't drink, another says "Drink for your stomach sake", or "Do not drink wherein excess."
Malachi 3:10 a famous Bible verse on tithing speaks about bringing your tithe to the storehouse (church, maybe)
Deuteronomy 14:22-26 says otherwise, it says "you should drink and be merry with your tithe". I'm seriously beginning to doubt the credibility of the Bible. Maybe the translators' fault or God told writers different stories on the same issue. Read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John's account of Jesus and see real contradictions.

3. Does God answer prayers? Well, I'm not really sure about that. Someone might be suffering from malaria, the person takes drugs and still prays, the drugs work, but the person thanks God. Or a successful surgical operation, instead of thanking the doctor, they thank God. Some illnesses that would have been treated led to deaths because a certain congregation who were supposed to take the ill persons to the hospital, circled around praying. Faith without work isn't it still dead?
I remember when I had stomach ulcer, it was really terrible, I prayed and made several promises to God that if He took away the ulcer, I'd drink no more alcohol and will be more devout in worshipping Him. That didn't solve anything though, I stopped drinking and took to taking my drugs more seriously. Weeks later, I was well. I returned to drinking and after a few months, the ulcer resurfaced. That was when I realized I really needed to quit drinking. Prayers wouldn't have solved that issue.
I spent 80% of 2019 at home because of my misgivings about God's existence.
I really wish I could be convinced about God's existence because I'm not even happy to be away from Church because of the views of friends and family.

4. Children of God, or so called children of God tend to suffer more tribulations, hard times and desperate moments, a lot of them scream "Vanity upon Vanity" when secular people live in luxury or spend extravagantly. God tends to turn his back on those who worship Him especially when they need Him most.
The 1933 Holocaust and mass murder of Jews to the tone of 6m was a clear indication that God turns His eyes against His people
Repulsive comments are highly welcome

damilarelr:


Hey, I usually don't make comments here but this is important to me.

From your post, I can see[b] it's time for you to change your church to a more enlightened one [/b]- the one where you can get answers to thousands of "why" about God, the Bible, your life etc. You need to hear deeper truths and revelations that will dispel all these thoughts in your mind before they even occur to you.

God is real. I leave you with this 3 movies for now - The Perfect Stranger, Overcomer, and The Shack.

I hope you find peace with God.

midnighter:


Is and not was. Present tense. Jesus is as Abraham was, before Jesus came.

k4kenny:


Yeah I was expecting that. That message was meant for the people at that period of time, not for all of mankind. Why would god wait for thousands of years before sending what you claim is the sole way to salvation? What was the criteria for salvation for the people before Jesus? What did Jesus (peace be upon him) himself say about eternal life?:

John 17:3
Eternal life is knowing there is ONE GOD and Jesus, whom HE HAS SENT.


The way, truth and life simply means he (Jesus, PBUH) has been sent to show the children of Israel the WAY, with the TRUTH and guide them with his LIGHT to the one true God. This can be said for ALL prophets and messengers God sent to all of humanity from the beginning of time.

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:

“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

56:35 Surely We have created them a (new) creation, 56:36 So We have made them virgins

DeepSight:


Some also insist that we have a pre existence and chose to come here. Whilst this is possible, I am not sure it is something that can be asserted with proof. What we are left with is the scenario where we suddenly find ourselves in this world with no prior memory simply dumped into what is for all purposes a cesspif of misery.

No matter how beautiful you might imagine life to be, aside from the fact that it is pitifully ugly and cruel for other people who form the majority, there is always the spectre of death awaiting us all. Again I know some people insist that there is an after life, but again, who knows this as a fact?

Consequently my question is what right does any creator have to put conscious beings through such misery and for what purpose in which they don't have a say? For me the defense of God's sovereignty is not sufficient because you are speaking of conscious beings here. If the only defense is God's sovereignty, then in the immortal words of Christopher Hitchens, why would we applaud a celestial dictatorship? A celestial North Korea?

The world is a terrible place. Sure, you can see beauty here and there, but the overwhelming experience of it is horrifying. Whilst some tend to insist that all the evil or negative experience in the world is a consequence of human excess, this is neither true nor sustainable. Natural disasters, diesease, and the very spectre of our mortality speak enough to this point.

Acehart:


I don’t know whether to thank you is appropriate. But it’s nice you read my long response.

englishmart:

1.Jesus is the only way to God, John 14:6
This invariably means those who don't believe in Jesus have no business in heaven.
Christians worldwide have an estimated population of 2.4billion people
Islam records an estimate of 1.9 billion adherents, Hindu has an estimated 1.1bn adherents. The remaining world's population have their own beliefs which includes atheism.
If Jesus is the only way to God, what happens to those who don't believe in him? Hell? Well, the Bible suggests so.

englishmart:

2. There are a lot of complications and contradictory remarks in the Bible- a verse says don't drink, another says "Drink for your stomach sake", or "Do not drink wherein excess."
Malachi 3:10 a famous Bible verse on tithing speaks about bringing your tithe to the storehouse (church, maybe)
Deuteronomy 14:22-26 says otherwise, it says "you should drink and be merry with your tithe". I'm seriously beginning to doubt the credibility of the Bible. Maybe the translators' fault or God told writers different stories on the same issue. Read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John's account of Jesus and see real contradictions.

englishmart:

3. Does God answer prayers? Well, I'm really sure about that. Someone might be suffering from malaria, the person takes drugs and still prays, the drugs work, but the person thanks God. Or a successful surgical operation, instead of thanking the doctor, they thank God. Some illnesses that would have been treated led to deaths because a certain congregation who were supposed to take the ill persons to the hospital, circled around praying. Faith without work isn't it still dead?
I remember when I had stomach ulcer, it was really terrible, I prayed and made several promises to God that if He took away the ulcer, I'd drink no more alcohol and will be more devout in worshipping Him. That didn't solve anything though, I stopped drinking and took to taking my drugs more seriously. Weeks later, I was well. I returned to drinking and after a few months, the ulcer resurfaced. That was when I realized I really needed to quit drinking. Prayers wouldn't have solved that issue.

englishmart:

I spent 80% of 2019 at home because of my misgivings about God's existence.
I really wish I could be convinced about God's existence because I'm not even happy to be away from Church because of the views of friends and family.

englishmart:

4. Children of God, or so called children of God tend to suffer more tribulations, hard times and desperate moments, a lot of them scream "Vanity upon Vanity" when secular people live in luxury or spend extravagantly. God tends to turn his back on those who worship Him especially when they need Him most.
The 1933 Holocaust and mass murder of Jews to the tone of 6m was a clear indication that God turns His eyes against His people
Repulsive comments are highly welcome

midnighter:


Yes, its appropriate and youre welcome. I enjoyed the scientific/technological angle

midnighter:


Because God was working according to a plan to restore mankind to Him. Its called "Redemptive history" , if youre interested in researching further. The whole thing was part of a greater purpose.

The requirements for people living before Jesus' coming are clearly stated in the Old Testament, so I dont know why youre asking that question.

Lol are you serious? You quoted one verse out of context just to twist Jesus' words to suit your purpose; is it what Islam tells you to do? Look at the context of that passage.





Like I keep telling people on this thread, if you keep picking and plucking Bible verses just to suit your own mentality, you will never get anywhere. Especially when the person can just open up the Bible and check to see that youve manipulated the whole thing and you actually have no point.

Just like if I quote the Qur'an from nowhere

You would simply think you were talking to an illiterate, right?

Smh

midnighter:


1. It makes perfect sense. What doesnt make sense is that somebodys sins are never atoned or paid for, anywhere, when God is supposed to be totally just.

2. Just because the Qur'an (supposedly) doesnt have contradictions, it doesnt make it true. Even most works of fiction need to be free of contradiction before they can be published, so that they will make sense to humans and fulfil human expectation.

The Bible is not trying to fit into human expectation because it is a divine work and human capacity to understand things of the spirit is limited. It only seeks to let the truth be known.

k4kenny:


The bolded part of your response is exactly what you're doing, in case you haven' t realised it. The bible said Jesus said he's the way the...., that doesn't make him a deity, neither does it mean he's the sole way to heaven. He was sent as means to God for the people at the time.

You need to read the earliest history of Christianity. It hasn't always been a trinitarian religion. The earliest Christians didn't believe in what you people believe today. They believe in the Oneness of God and Jesus was inspired by Him. The Trinity was something developed in the 4th century, some 300 years after his passing. In the process, they rewrote and twisted the gospels to fit their trinitarian idea. Why anyone would want to stake their belief on an illogical principle invented by a council of men in the ancient times is seriously beyond me.

Put your education to good use and do some research. Use your mind and don't be blind-sighted by emotions. Peace.

Xbee007:

The Qur'an does contain contradictions. This brought about the concept of abrogation in Islam.

orunto27:
You are grossly INDISCIPLINED.
How old are you? And what is your Discipline?
Adeboye is a Mathematician.
Kumuyi is a Mathematician.
Oyakhilome is an Achitect.
Oyedepo is a Physicist.
T.B Joshua is a Philosopher and a Wizard just like the Pope in Rome.
Go and read more about Electrons and the difference between The First Adam and The Second will be clearer to you. And you will not be mad anymore about God, Jesus and The Holy Spirit. The Bible is just a Supreme Guide to human Life(Actions, Interactions and Movements-AIMs).

From Orisa37:

Blackicegold:










Bro. How would you say there is no God

EvangelistChuks:

Just like your phone saying,"I made myself".'How wise'.

Xbee007:

There simply is no evidence for the existence of God, when you look at it objectively. It's hard to reconcile this with our bias upbringing, but when we wean ourselves of these biases, we see the truth.

khia:
@ the Op, those people who died in the Holocaust were not God's people.

englishmart:
1.Jesus is the only way to God, John 14:6
This invariably means those who don't believe in Jesus have no business in heaven.
Christians worldwide have an estimated population of 2.4billion people
Islam records an estimate of 1.9 billion adherents, Hindu has an estimated 1.1bn adherents. The remaining world's population have their own beliefs which includes atheism.
If Jesus is the only way to God, what happens to those who don't believe in him? Hell? Well, the Bible suggests so.

2. There are a lot of complications and contradictory remarks in the Bible- a verse says don't drink, another says "Drink for your stomach sake", or "Do not drink wherein excess."
Malachi 3:10 a famous Bible verse on tithing speaks about bringing your tithe to the storehouse (church, maybe)
Deuteronomy 14:22-26 says otherwise, it says "you should drink and be merry with your tithe". I'm seriously beginning to doubt the credibility of the Bible. Maybe the translators' fault or God told writers different stories on the same issue. Read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John's account of Jesus and see real contradictions.

3. Does God answer prayers? Well, I'm not really sure about that. Someone might be suffering from malaria, the person takes drugs and still prays, the drugs work, but the person thanks God. Or a successful surgical operation, instead of thanking the doctor, they thank God. Some illnesses that would have been treated led to deaths because a certain congregation who were supposed to take the ill persons to the hospital, circled around praying. Faith without work isn't it still dead?
I remember when I had stomach ulcer, it was really terrible, I prayed and made several promises to God that if He took away the ulcer, I'd drink no more alcohol and will be more devout in worshipping Him. That didn't solve anything though, I stopped drinking and took to taking my drugs more seriously. Weeks later, I was well. I returned to drinking and after a few months, the ulcer resurfaced. That was when I realized I really needed to quit drinking. Prayers wouldn't have solved that issue.
I spent 80% of 2019 at home because of my misgivings about God's existence.
I really wish I could be convinced about God's existence because I'm not even happy to be away from Church because of the views of friends and family.

4. Children of God, or so called children of God tend to suffer more tribulations, hard times and desperate moments, a lot of them scream "Vanity upon Vanity" when secular people live in luxury or spend extravagantly. God tends to turn his back on those who worship Him especially when they need Him most.
The 1933 Holocaust and mass murder of Jews to the tone of 6m was a clear indication that God turns His eyes against His people
Repulsive comments are highly welcome

englishmart:
Who were they ?

khia:

Europeans.

Acehart:


Good evening,

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Please read my response with an open mind. Please permit me to use a technique I use in my profession to answer your question; it’s called Problem-Solving methodology. Firstly, all the right information about a problem is gathered. Secondly, only six questions are answered. These questions are called the 5W 1H: who, what, where, when, why, how.

1. All the information related to the meaning of “Lost sheep”in the Christian Bible:
a. A select set of people in Israel: These were the spiritually sick (Matthew 9:13). They were the ones who mourned for their sins and needed a Messiah (Luke 5:31-32, 15:6). Psalm 119 refers to the term “lost sheep” as one who recognizes that he is a sinner. Other scriptures show that they are the ones led astray by bad leaders.

2. Who was Jesus talking to?: It was not stated whether He was talking to His disciples or the Syro-Phoenician woman. It’s best to think that He was talking to Himself. However, the woman who was the center of this quagmire was referred to as a “dog”. A dog is someone whom the Bible says has many religious affiliations. She was a Syno-Phoenician. It was typical of the people of that region to faithful to many gods (2 Kings 17:24-33).

3. Why did Jesus say what He said?: It was only in Israel that the concept of sin was understood; and extensive rituals for sin and righteousness was observed. Other religions and cultures of that time did not have such a thing. If He met someone who did not have an understanding of sin, He would be in a dilemma and the soliloquy (in point 2 above) is understandable - He would be wasting His time talking to her.

4. What was Jesus’ mission?: I’d like to ask you this: if you were to open a shop, wouldn’t you open it where you will have the largest amount of customers? This doesn’t mean that you wouldn’t sell your goods to people while you are on the way to your shop. (There is a man that supplies Agege bread to a woman close to my office. He doesn’t spend more than 10 minutes when he comes to supply the bread. Nevertheless, some people walking to their office will walk to his car to buy his bread without going to his preferred customer - the woman).

Only the children of Abraham were Christ’s preferred customers because of an agreement God had with Abraham. It will only make sense that if He had only three years to sell his bread, the best place to sell is where He had an agreement. This doesn’t mean that other people along the way wouldn’t eat His bread. When Israel broke the agreement, He carried His bread to other people. So it will be that if the woman who sells the Agege bread breaks the agreement she has with the bread supplier, then he will find a new agent.

It wouldn’t be necessary talking about ’how’ and ‘when’ because of my explanations above. Thank God the woman pressed on and was saved. You too have to eat Jesus’ bread to enjoy the agreement God had with Abraham.

Thanks for your time.

midnighter:


So by extension, you believe that the majority of people would be better off having never come into existence in the first place?

God should only have brought people to life after guaranteeing that their lives would be "good", otherwise what was the point?

"The world is a terrible place" by what index? In what way is it terrible?

If you acknowledge that human endeavour is at least partially responsible for the "horrifying experience" then is this not more of an anthropological consideration?

Death is a part of life. Plants and animals are beautiful in their own right, yet are at the same time just tasty food for some other animals. Lack of cell death means you have cancer.

Natural "disasters" are actually part of natural cycles and form an important part of process. For example bush fires release vital minerals back into the soil and make the land more fertile, which encourages flora and fauna to flourish.

Life can be chaotic and meaningless, sure. But positioning death, which can actually be argued to be a neutral phenomenon to some extent, as a reason to reject God is a bit simplistic.

DeepSight:
This is a weird question because if one never came into existence the question of being better or worse off simply never arises.

At the minimum, their lives should be sensible and meaningful, and needless random misery and tragedy should not be a recurring decimal.

This forces me to assume you are around sixteen years old and belong to a privileged, wealthy and insulated family.

Partially. Only partially.

Humans didn't invent death - they only invented stories to explain death.

An omnipotent and omniscient God could do better.

I haven't rejected God. I only reject the concept of God advanced by society.

mrollyB:

Happy new year bro

I was busy for some time, am just getting your response now.

I will have to say something before I start anything, what I want to say is until we open our mind to question, ask and learn we will not achieve any greatness. Not only In religious matters but in all aspects of life.

That Been said, we have assumed alot of things about Jesus and the Bible and we have learnt to tell ourselves what we feel is the right thing to suit our situation at the moment.

Jesus said something like I am the truth the way and the light, that who so ever will go to my father will come through me. Right? That was a straight statement from Jesus and we believe it and we don't twist it. Why? Because it's suits us, it's suits what we believe and we don't need any holy spirit to tell us what that means.

But statements like this

My father is greater than I, I can't not do anything except from my father, all this ones are not direct.
In the cases above, we need to find a better explanation to give it such that Jesus will not be junior to God but the same with him.right

Cases like cursing the Tree when it was not the season of it to bear fruit, but he caused it and the tree died instantly, all of this and more requires a whole lot of spiritual guidance to understand his action.

You see firstly you need to know why you are doing what you are doing and not just because you met it like that or they told you to do it this way or that way.


If Jesus said he is not sent to anybody than lost sheep of Israel, it's simple and straight forward no need to look around to justify why you think he is sent to Africans or Americans.

Jesus speaks in parables and when he realised that his disciples can't understand him he explains what he meant to them right there and then. If he said something and he knows that we won't understand he will explain like he did in all his parables in the Bible. Let us stop looking for justifications for ourselves. Jesus is of HIgher power he knows what we can understand and can't understand. We need no other things to understand him nor need to fabricate explanation for him.

midnighter:


I started responding to this post but I realised that any further engagement would be pointless.

Just like a few other elements on this thread, you are not concerned with any kind of genuine debate, only fustian exchange and pseudo-intellectual posturing which helps no-one and becomes boring after a while.

You dont really seek an answer to your question. You only wish to bandy words and fixate on isolated details whilst ducking and diving the main issue in order to appear to have made a point.

So respectfully, I withdraw from the interaction and wish you an auspicious and prosperous New Year.

Acehart:
Imagine a detective who only makes a decision based only on evidence without considering eyewitness testimonies and many other factors that inform wise judgment. That’s how a scientific atheist is - he has never proved beyond reasonable doubt (either to himself or the community) that there isn’t a God. When you ask a science-induced atheist how something came out of nothing? He dwells on the ‘something’ and ignores the ‘nothing’ until the argument is no longer objective. Once one is an atheist by choice, there is little one can do to change him - that battle is the Lord’s. For the OP, he is a contradiction and his reasoning - a-dime-a-dozen type found amongst who enjoy pleasure, is his drive towards atheism.

Happy New Year

englishmart:
European Jews

DeepSight:


Talking about ducking and diving.
This is just escapist.