scholes0:


Stoopid.
So Benin colonized Yoruba and Yorubas adopted Oba, but the neighbouring Esan, Afemai, Isoko, Urrhobo people that speak similar languages and share similar customs from the start coud not adopt it? lol.
Oba is a Yoruba word planted into Benin just like many other Yoruba traditions and Vocabulary now replete in the Bini language.

You are free to swear as you like since it seems that is the sign of sophistication you guys hype yourselves about.

But I will explain about Oba title. Until 1897, no other traditional ruler within Benin Empire sphere of influence would have been able to use the title Oba. Not Eleko of Lagos until 1850s when the British colonised Lagos, not Olu of Warri, not even Ewi of Ado-Ekiti or such.

See Benin sacking of Akure and beheading of Ewi Arakale of Ado in 1818 and why.

In Edoid language areas they would use titles derived from Benin words Ogie (chief), Enogie (duke). In Esanland what are now kings remain Onojie, in Delta it's Ovie, Orodje etc. Of course most have now been elevated to king status.

Oba is just a shortened version in Benin. Just one of the king's titles as in OMO n'OBA n'EDO UKU AKPOLOKPOLO.

In many royal traditions a prince or princes is simply called child. Such as in Spain. A prince is infante. A princess is Infanta.

Omo n'Oba n'Edo means he or a child that shines for Benin. So that child or Omo as part of title is known elsewhere.

Historically Eweka l was pretty much a child when he became de facto Oba. He was called the child that shines for Benin.

In Benin the word Oba denotes shining like the moon, sun, stars and such heavenly bodies. It can also mean a bright red colour. A thing that is bold in such colours. Monarchy is about tradition. So the title stuck.

Although Ogisos simply used, prior to Eweka dynasty, Oba to mean shining as in Obagodo. No Omo was added by then. Until the child Oba Eweka l came.

Edeyoung:



Lord and king what is the difference

Pls you guys shouldnt get me started


My conclusion is the word oba is not yoruba

No true answer have been giving so far

To connect if ife really had contact with benin

Are you claiming that Oba isnt a generic Yoruba terminogy?

If so, provide us with the etymology.

Where does the term 'Oba' originate?

LorrdSky:
The Benin Empire colonized the YorubaLand so the Yorubas adopted the tradition of Benin people.

Yoruba people in Togo went as far as renaming their country from Dahomey to Benin Republic.

Have you ever heard of the bight of benin

scholes0:
...
So Benin colonized Yoruba

Benin did not colonise Yoruba, even the Portugues didnt.

Benin didnt even colonise Lagos, the Portuguese did.

What's the connection between indus valley and africa�,geography isn't a good excuse greece is connected to the near east by the mideterrean,horn of africa was once connected to south arabia due to low water levels same with north africa and iberia,so i don't see how that changes the position of indus valley from asia,indus has the earliest dating by archealogists in asia

The oldest evidence of civilisation is nok culture yes people were already here,but nok is the earliest archealogical evidence of an early civilisation,except you have other archealogical findings that i am not aware

And the oldest form of writing is in mesopotamia,others argue the Indus script of the Bronze Age Indus Valley civilization, the Rongorongo script of
Easter Island ,and the Vinča symbols they have not being translated and so no one is certain if they represent authentic writing,am not aware of any west African writing that predates that of Egypt or mesopotamia

Amujale:


Some of the dates arent accurate

You are correct that the oldest civilisation in Europe is Minoan.

However, the dates are as follows:
Minoans c.2700 toc.1450 BCE

location:aegean sea,crete

The oldest civilisation in Asia is the summer civilisation

(3300BC-1300BC)

The Indus valley is connected to Africa by the hip. Our scholarship suggest that there are two many connections for them to be down to coincidence.

Eventhough there's proof of earlier dates i will go with Profesdor S A Akintoye and Clyde Winters.


The Yoruba, Edo, Igbo, Urhobo, Nupe, Tiv, Igala, Idoma, and so on, from our archeological research and linguistic research, we believe that though all those peoples evolved along the banks of the Middle Niger up to the confluence with the Benue and that at some point in 5000-3000 BCE they began to spread out from there and gradually, the Yoruba, Edo, Nupe, Igbo, Igala, Idoma, Igbere evolved, and so on.

According to Dr Clyde Winters West Africa owns the oldest form of developed writting systems anywhere in the world.

Edeyoung:



Lord and king what is the difference

Pls you guys shouldnt get me started


My conclusion is the word oba is not yoruba

No true answer have been giving so far

To connect if ife really had contact with benin

You unceremoniusly fled from the other thread only to escape down here to parrot the very things you ran away from.

Hypocricy should be your middle name. Something like: Ede Hypocrisy Young.

https://www.nairaland.com/5824498/benin-ife-never-connections-more/2#89024183


https://www.nairaland.com/5802327/name-benin-not-gotten-ife/4#88788879

RedboneSmith:
A little question, please.

If Oba is the generic Yoruba word for King, what about Olu? It is just a mere synonym, or are there differences between Olu and Oba?

Or is the difference one of dialect, where Oba is prevalent in one part of Yorubaland and Olu is prevalent in another?

Olu is like a Lord of a province. which can also mean a King or not.

Olu of Ibadan is Olubadan
Oluwa - Lord most high
Olu of Ilaro is the lord of Ilaro.
Olu of Warri (ogiame) is the lord of Warri
Olu of Otta is the Olotta.
Olu of Ikare is the Olukare

It is not a dialectal difference per say as it exists in all Yoruba dialects. it is just semantics.
It is like saying "King Edward who is the Lord of France, Monarch of the Gauls and Sovereign of all lands there in"

Amujale:
Oba (ruler) Oba is the word for King.

Kings in Yorubaland are known as Obas, for example Oba Sijuade of Ile ife, Oba Aromoralan of Ijeshaland, Oba Adeyemi of Oyo, Oba Eriediewa of Benin.

Similarly, i personally represent the essence of the spirit of a famous seat of an Oba.

The Benin people adopted the word from the Yoruba.

The Benin word for King is Ogie or Ogiso changed to Oba when Eweka l son of yoruba prince Oranmiyan came to the throne in Benin.

Aristocratic titles among the Yoruba.

The Yoruba chieftaincy system can be divided into four separate ranks: royal chiefs, noble chiefs, religious chiefs and common chiefs.

The royals are led by the Obas, who sit at the apex of the hierarchy and serve as the fons honorum of the entire system.

Oba Beaded Crown "Ade" of King Onijagbo Obasoro Alowolodu, Ogoga of Ikere.

I pay my homage to the Crown, I digress.


There are two different kinds of Yoruba monarchs: The kings of Yoruba

For example, the king of Iwo - bears the title "Olu'wo" (Olu of Iwo, lit. Lord of Iwo).

The first generation towns of the Yoruba homeland, which encompasses large swathes of the said countries of Benin, Nigeria and Togo, are those with obas who generally wear beaded crowns; the rulers of many of the 'second generation' settlements are also often obas. Those that remain and those of the third generation tend to only be headed by the holders of the title "Baale" (lit. Father of the Land ), who do not wear crowns and who are, at least in theory, the reigning viceroys of those who wear crowns.

I bow to the ways of the Crown.

Olu means. King(lord)
Kabiyesi means(royal highness)
All this are general term for kings in yoruba


There was never a benin-ife connection from this answer given


Ogie means king, royalty

Oba means shinn

According to the yorubas oba of benin should be called

Ogie edo oba of benin Ewuare 11

Can we now adress the oba of benin like this to ascertain that the title oba is benin according to our yoruba peeps


Please why is it only the oba that gets to be buried in ife what about the rest
Why is the oba if Benin special to the yorubas

AreaFada2:

You are free to swear as you like since it seems that is the sign of sophistication you guys hype yourselves about.

When I see something stoopied, I simply call it out without mincing words.

But I will explain about Oba title. Until 1897, body traditional ruler within Benin Empire sphere of influence would have been able to use the title Oba. Not Eleko of Lagos until 1850s when the British colonised Lagos, not Olu of Warri, not even Ewi of Ado-Ekiti or such.

See Benin sacking of Akure and beheading if Ewi Arakale of Ado in 1818 and why.

Yorubas are the ones who call the Oba of Lagos Eleko, just like they call other Yoruba Obas in other domains different other appellations. That doesn't mean they all weren't one before. Till today, Oba of Lagos is still called Eleko.... influence of British or not, you can't ask people not to speak their native language.

In Edoid language areas they would use titles derived from Benin words Ogie (chief), Enogie (duke). In Esanland what are now kings remain Onojie, in Delta it's Ovie, Orodje etc. Of course most have now been elevated to king status.

Ogie is not Chief.. otherwise you would have to explain why Ogiuwu means King/Lord of Death in Benin language.

Oba has is just a shortened version in Benin. Just one of the king's title as in OMO n'OBA n'EDO UKU AKPOLOKPOLO.

In many royal traditions a prince or princes is simply called child. Such as in Spain. A prince is infante. A princess is Infanta.

Well, Oba is not a short of anything in Yoruba,. Oba is simply Oba. A prince is simply Omoba and if it the eldest boy the Omoba Aremo or Arole Oba.

Omo n'Oba n'Edo means he or a child that shines for Benin. So that child or Omo as part of title is known elsewhere.
Historically Eweka l was pretty much a child when he became de facto Oba. He was called the child that shines for Benin.

I don't understand Benin language very well... but I like this formulation, keep it up. so if "Ba" means shinning in Benin, then they had better let us know that it does not exactly mean king in the real sense.

Although Ogisos were Simply use Oba to mean shining as in Obagodo. No Omo added then.

The first semi-mythical Ogiso of beniin is Ogiso Igodo. And that was what it was always popularly known by. If it at some point later started becoming/became "Ogiso Obagodo" that would be as a result of later influence. And is even a tautology as Ogie-iso already means King.

Edeyoung:



Olu means. King(lord)
Kabiyesi means(royal highness)
All this are general term for kings in yoruba


There was never a benin-ife connection from this answer given


Ogie means king, royalty

Oba means shinn

According to the yorubas oba of benin should be called

Ogie edo oba of benin Ewuare 11

Can we now adress the oba of benin like this to ascertain that the title oba is benin according to our yoruba peeps


Please why is it only the oba that gets to be buried in ife what about the rest
Why is the oba if Benin special to the yorubas

Oba didnt become the general word for King, Oba is the generic term for King

Amujale:


Are you claiming that Oba isnt a generic Yoruba terminogy?

If so, provide us with the etymology.

Where does the term 'Oba' originate?

RamessesIV:
What's the connection between indus valley and africa�,geography isn't a good excuse..

Archeology, anthropology, linguistics, personnel and symbolism.

There are no caucasoid civilisations in the Indus Valley.

The earliest civilisation in those regions migrated from Africa.

As a matter of fact, Africans are indigenous to all the continents; we have the map and we have traced their movement using archaeology, anthropology, symbolism and personnel comparitive studies.

The first caucasoid civilisation was crete.

The Arabs and the Europeans have the same beginnings.

The earliest traceable Arabian civilisation was in mesopotamia.

That are no Arabs in the Indo valley.

The Chinese and Japanese came from the Mongols.

Edeyoung:



Lord and king what is the difference

Pls you guys shouldnt get me started


My conclusion is the word oba is not yoruba

No true answer have been giving so far

To connect if ife really had contact with benin

Perhaps that is because no 'true answer' would suffice to you simply because you are actually not after the truth. By default, only Yorubas can factually give you the true answer to your question (which they already did), considering that you're not yoruba yourself. But due to your preconceived bias in respect of the subject matter, no explanation from the Yorubas would ever be enough.

In the depiction below is the movement of the Twa.

It's important to note that the Twa aren't the only African to migrate, West Africans did so as well, we are working on a thorough breakdown of our Ancestors movements too,

We need all our artefacts returned to us so we can work on them.

The second photos are the picture of one of the oldest depictions of the Indigebnous Austalassians before they began intermarriage and all of that stuff.

Can you see how their hair texture, and how it isn't straight as is today?

scholes0:


Olu is like a Lord of a province. which can also mean a King or not.

Olu of Ibadan is Olubadan
Oluwa - Lord most high
Olu of Ilaro is the lord of Ilaro.
Olu of Warri (ogiame) is the lord of Warri
Olu of Otta is the Olotta.
Olu of Ikare is the Oulukare

It is not a dialectal difference per say as it exists in all Yoruba dialects. it is just semantics.
It is like saying "King Edward who is the Lord of France, Monarch of the Gauls and Sovereign of all lands there in"

The ooni should be represented as

Ooni of ife olu adeyeye ojaja11



From the comment alone from this thread it seems they are so many word that can be used to replace oba and serves as king names like
Olu (lord)
Kabiyesi(royal highness)

But you guys choosed oba to be a a general term for king

It is true benin never had connections with ife

Edeyoung:



The ooni should be represented as

Ooni of ife olu adeyeye ojaja11



From the comment alone from this thread it seems they are so many word that can be used to replace oba and serves as king names like
Olu (lord)
Kabiyesi(royal highness)

But you guys choosed oba to be a a general term for king

It is true benin never had connections with ife

You asked a very simple question that the Yoruba currently have no answer for but be rest assured that TAO11 will definitely come back with a manufactured lie as a reply, she is very good and efficient when it comes to manufacturing of fallacies.

The question remains.

1. What was so special about the Oba of Benin for their heads to be buried in Ife. Even though research have not found any evidence of this.

2. Why are other Yoruba Oba not taken to Ife for burial, not even the Alaafin was buried in Ife.

3. As it stands and if we are to believe the Yoruba, the must important monarchs in Yoruba history to be buried in Ife, (the cradle of Yoruba civilisation, the most spiritual and holy land of the Yoruba race) are Oduduwa, Oranmiyan, Ooni and Oba of Benin. Not even the Alaafin is granted that privilege.

Hopefully they can begin to see the implication of their by force fire brigade marriage between Benin and Ife.

This only leads credence to Oba Erediawa's claim that the first Ooni was a Benin prince and Benin founded Ife, that's why no any other Yoruba Oba is allowed to be buried in the Ife holy land of the Yoruba except the holiest of holy, the Oba of Benin.

samuk:


You asked a very simple question that the Yoruba currently have no answer for but be rest assured that TAO11 will definitely come back with a manufactured lie as a reply, she is very good and efficient when it comes to manufacturing of fallacies.

The question remains.

1. What was so special about the Oba of Benin for their heads to be buried in Ife. Even though research have not found any evidence of this.

2. Why are other Yoruba Oba not taken to Ife for burial, not even the Alaafin was buried in Ife.

3. As it stands and if we are to believe the Yoruba, the must important monarchs in Yoruba history to be buried in If are Oduduwa, Oranmiyan, Ooni and Oba of Benin. Not even the Alaafin is granted that privilege.

Hopefully they can begin to see the implication of their by force fire brigade marriage between Benin and Ife.

(1) Exhuming someone's head for burial indicate being special to you, right. I wish you will be special in this way.

(2) Because they are already at home in Yorubaland. The ritual practice of bringing 3rd reign Bini Obas' heads back home is to serve as a constant ritual reminder of the fact that Igodomigodo is abroad.

(3) Any Yoruba king buried anywhere within Yorubaland is buried at home. That's the whole point.

cc: Edeyoung

TAO11:


(1) Exhuming someone's head for burial indicate being special to you, right. I wish you will be special in this way.

(2) Because they are already at home in Yorubaland. The ritual practice of bringing 3rd reign Bini Obas' heads back home is to serve as a constant ritual reminder of the fact that Igodomigodo is abroad.

(3) Any Yoruba king buried anywhere within Yorubaland is buried at home. That's the whole point.

cc: Edeyoung

This only leads credence to Oba Erediawa's claim that the first Ooni was a Benin prince and Benin founded Ife, that's why no any other Yoruba Oba is allowed to be buried in the Ife holy land, except the greatest and the holiest of holy, the Oba of Benin.

samuk:

This only leads credence to Oba Erediawa's claim that the first Ooni was a Benin prince and Benin founded Ife, that's why no any other Yoruba Oba is allowed to be buried in the Ife holy land of the Yoruba except the holiest of holy, the Oba of Benin.

Taking heads back home from abroad means abroad founded home. I actually wasn't expecting an unwarped reasoning from a Bini.

Again, other Yoruba Obas in Yorubaland are home.

TAO11:


Taking heads back home from abroad means abroad founded home. I actually wasn't expecting an unwarped reasoning from a Bini.

Again, other Yoruba Obas in Yorubaland are home.

What was so special about the Benin heads, you guys told us you also colonised Dahomey/republic of Benin, were heads of the rulers there also brought to Ife or there were/are no rulers of Yoruba descent in Dahomey.

There was no such thing as a unified Yoruba land until recently.

The Ijebus were not even seen as Yorubas because they have their own history which was different from other Yoruba tribes history.

After opening your mouth from ear to ear, I expect you to come back with more illogical lies as answer.

samuk:

What was so special about the Benin heads, you guys told us you also colonised Dahomey/republic of Benin, were heads of the rulers there also brought to Ife or there were/are no rulers of Yoruba descent in Dahomey.

There was no such thing as a unified Yoruba land until recently.

The Ijebus were not even seen as Yorubas because they have their own history which was different from other Yoruba tribes history.

After opening your mouth from ear to ear, I expect you to come back with more illogical lies as answer.

An abroad-dynasty is not the same thing as colonization. Go back to class.

Moreover, Yorubaland extends beyond the shores of what later came to be Nigeria.

So, nothing is special about exhuming someone's skull. And if you insist othewise, you may offer your skull so that you can be satisfied that you're special.

Again, Igodomigodo is not Yorubaland. We only gave them a dynastic-monarchy.

No, there was always a Yorubaland, with a well defined territory.

You sneaked in the above boldened comment after I had already replied so I won't notice it.

Anyways, I did notice it.

Ijebu was always part of the Yoruba race. What they protested was the use of the term "Yoruba" as an umbrella term.

And the reason is well known. The term was originated by the Oyos as an Oyo supremacist term --- "Oyo r'Oba", that is Oyo is the King among their peers.

They preferred the prior ancient umbrella term such as "Aku" or "Lukumi".

A liar calling others a liar because the truth they utter hurt his butt so bad.

TAO11:


An abroad-dynasty is not the same thing as colonization. Go back to class.

Moreover, Yorubaland extends beyond the shores of what later came to be Nigeria.

So, nothing is special about exhuming someone's skull. And if you insist othewise, you may offer your skull so that you can be satisfied that you're special.

Again, Igodomigodo is not Yorubaland. We only gave them a dynastic-monarchy.

No, there was always a Yorubaland, with a well defined territory.

You sneaked in the above boldened comment after I had already replied so I won't notice it.

Anyways, I did notice it.

Ijebu was always part of the Yoruba race. What they protested was the use of the term "Yoruba" as an umbrella term.

And the reason is well known. The term was originated by the Oyos as an Oyo supremacist term --- "Oyo r'Oba", that is Oyo is the King among their peers.

They preferred the prior ancient umbrella term such as "Aku" or "Lukumi".

A liar calling others a liar because the truth they utter hurt is butt so bad.

Thanks for letting us know that Ijebu were not cool with the recently politically created Oyo r' Oba. Indeed Oyo is the King among their peers because they are the one that had an empire.

samuk:


Thanks for letting us know that Ijebu were not cool with the recently politically created Oyo r' Oba. Indeed Oyo is the King among their peers because they are the one that had an empire.

Yes, at that point in time in history Oyo considers itself to be the King among their peers. Yes. So?

And the Ijebus or anyone else have a right to any term that would describe all of them.

They preferred already existing umbrella terms which are politically neutral.


Your point here?

TAO11:


Yes, at that point in time in history Oyo considers itself to be the King among their peers. Yes. So?

And the Ijebus or anyone else have a right to any term that would describe all of them.

They preferred already existing umbrella terms which are politically neutral.


Your point here?

There was no such thing as a unified Yoruba land until the recent creation of Oyo r' Oba, Oyo is king of Yoruba.

Why was Benin so important to Ife so much so, that the heads of the Obas were buried in Ife.

Today everyone is suddenly from Ife.

When did the history of Ijebu changed from being the people that were sacrificed to gods to becoming Ife princes.

Silversniper:

Regarding "food", the historian Samuel Johnson made the following claim in his book:

"The origin of the Ijebus has been variously given ; one account makes them spring from the victims offered in sacrifice by the King of Benin to the god of the ocean, hence the term Ijebu from Ije-ibu, i.e., the food of the deep. The Ijebus themselves claim to have descended from Oba-nita, as they say of themselves, "Ogietiele, eru Obanita," i.e., Ogetiele, servants of Obanita. But who was this Oba-nita? Tradition says he also was a victim of sacrifice by the Olowu or King of Owu." - Samuel Johnson, The History of the Yorubas, pp. 18-19

A historian, Tunde Oduwobi, gives an interesting analysis of this ascription of servile origins to the Ijebu in his publication "Early Ìjèbú history: An analysis on demographic evolution and state formation" (2006). Oduwobi also notes in that article and in another article that, of course, the Ijebu had their own completely different traditions about their origins.

The creator of this thread sounds, seems and behaves like Gregboy. No matter how add you try to make him see and understand the obvious he will be contented with ignorance.
Oba in Benin as the Benins here have made us realised means red or shining. Omon'oba nedo, according to them thus means, the child that shines/or is shining for Edo. How, how and how do these meaning relate to the king and royalty? This explains that the word "oba" was just imported as the meaning given to is not replaceable with "king" and means different thing entirely.

Some of them even say "oba" in Benin language is quite different from that of Yoruba language. isn't that absurd? If Ogun, ayelala, saponna, in Yoruba and Benin are used in reference to the same entity, why should "Oba" be a different case.

What is more annoying; the mother of the king in Benin is called Iyooba (can you translate this as the mother of the "red" or the mother of "that which shines?). Who knows if they have ayaaba?.

Now, "Oba" is Yoruba and will always be. Oba as explained before is a nominal form of O ba (He that rules, dominates, has sovereign, presides over etc).
Other Yoruba words that have "oba" in them are:
Balogun (Obalojuogun), meaning the king at the battle field or the one that gives command, that presides over war affairs
Obatala.

Olu does not have the same meaning as Oba (even though it is close to it in meaning)
Olu does not mean king. it is used mainly to connotes third person possession (the one that owns something), the one that is most valued, the one that controls the affair of a given entity kr the one that does or performs a given action (as the case may be)
Take for instance
Oluwa and Oba wa may be referring to God but they both mean different things entirely. The formal, Oluwa means He that owns us while the latter, Oba wa, means our king.
Other word with olu are
olurombi: (Olu ri oun bi ) that person/thing that gives birth to something
Olubadan: the owner/most highly place person of Ibadan

samuk:

There was no such thing as a unified Yoruba land until the recent creation of Oyo r' Oba, Oyo is king of Yoruba.

Why was Benin so important to Ife so much so, that the heads of the Obas were buried in Ife.

Today everyone is suddenly from Ife.

When did the history of Ijebu changed from being the people that were sacrificed to gods to becoming Ife princes.

Silversniper:

Regarding "food", the historian Samuel Johnson made the following claim in his book:

"The origin of the Ijebus has been variously given ; one account makes them spring from the victims offered in sacrifice by the King of Benin to the god of the ocean, hence the term Ijebu from Ije-ibu, i.e., the food of the deep. The Ijebus themselves claim to have descended from Oba-nita, as they say of themselves, "Ogietiele, eru Obanita," i.e., Ogetiele, servants of Obanita. But who was this Oba-nita? Tradition says he also was a victim of sacrifice by the Olowu or King of Owu." - Samuel Johnson, The History of the Yorubas, pp. 18-19

A historian, Tunde Oduwobi, gives an interesting analysis of this ascription of servile origins to the Ijebu in his publication "Early Ìjèbú history: An analysis on demographic evolution and state formation" (2006). Oduwobi also notes in that article and in another article that, of course, the Ijebu had their own completely different traditions about their origins.

There was always a unified Yorubaland with a well defined territory. They all call themselves Aku or Lukumi.

The fact that the Oyos say of themselves that "Oyo is King among other peers" (i.e. "Oyo r'Oba" ) is sufficient evidence against you that there is a well-defined unified collection.

If beheading people is the evidence of the high status of the beheaded, then offer your head.

The Ijebus never had such traditions of themselves, and even your copy and paste agrees that they never had such traditions of themselves.

The fact that a different sub-group makes a degrading claim about another sub-group doesn't make the claim true.

I think you are descended from the the sexual relationship of a particular Edo woman and an ape.

Is this true? Do you agree to this just because this is what I hold about you?

Another annoying thing that is daily paraded here is there was nothing like "Yoruba" until year 2020. Who actually cares to know that? That was was never a term of name that bring all Yoruba together until recently doesn't mean the different people inhabiting the present day Yoruba land were oblivious of one another.

Many things that transcend name bond the Oyos, egbas, ondos, Ekiti, Ijeshas, Owus etc. They related as brothers with common history, ancestor, culture, social, religious and political values.

babtoundey:
Another annoying thing that is daily paraded here is there was nothing like "Yoruba" until year 2020. Who actually cares to know that? That was was never a term of name that bring all Yoruba together until recently doesn't mean the different people inhabiting the present day Yoruba land were oblivious of one another.

Many things that transcend name bond the Oyos, egbas, ondos, Ekiti, Ijeshas, Owus etc. They related as brothers with common history, ancestor, culture, social, religious and political values.

Yorubas always had a unified term though.

They all called themselves "Aku" or "Lukumi"

TAO11:


There was always a unified Yorubaland with a well defined territory.

They all call themselves Aku or Lukumi.

If beheading people is the evidence of the high status of the beheaded, then offer your head.

The Ijebus never had such traditions of themselves, and even your copy and paste agrees that they never had such traditions.

The fact that a different sub-group makes a degrading claim about another sub-group doesn't make the claim true.

I think you are descended from the the sexual relationship of a particular Edo woman and an ape.

Is this true? Do you agree to this just because this is what I hold about you?

Your insults is coming from you as someone from a rival group not a subgroup.

Johnson and other Yoruba historian that wrote Ijebu history are part of the same subgroup, why will they write such or make up such history if it wasn't true.

You all are trying to whitewash your previous past by attaching yourselves to the Ife myth. People who history catalogued as sacrifices to the gods are now suddenly princes from Ife.

When did Ijebu history change from being sacrificial people to the gods to becoming Ife princes.

Ijebu history was written by fellow Yoruba historians, so you can't claim ulterior motives or bad blood amongst the so called Yoruba.

Today everyone is suddenly from Ife.

Silversniper:

Regarding "food", the historian Samuel Johnson made the following claim in his book:

"The origin of the Ijebus has been variously given ; one account makes them spring from the victims offered in sacrifice by the King of Benin to the god of the ocean, hence the term Ijebu from Ije-ibu, i.e., the food of the deep. The Ijebus themselves claim to have descended from Oba-nita, as they say of themselves, "Ogietiele, eru Obanita," i.e., Ogetiele, servants of Obanita. But who was this Oba-nita? Tradition says he also was a victim of sacrifice by the Olowu or King of Owu." - Samuel Johnson, The History of the Yorubas, pp. 18-19

A historian, Tunde Oduwobi, gives an interesting analysis of this ascription of servile origins to the Ijebu in his publication "Early Ìjèbú history: An analysis on demographic evolution and state formation" (2006). Oduwobi also notes in that article and in another article that, of course, the Ijebu had their own completely different traditions about their origins.

TAO11:

Yorubas always had a unified term though.
They all called themselves "Aku" or "Lukumi"

Sure. Thanks for the update.

babtoundey:
Another annoying thing that is daily paraded here is there was nothing like "Yoruba" until year 2020. Who actually cares to know that? That was was never a term of name that bring all Yoruba together until recently doesn't mean the different people inhabiting the present day Yoruba land were oblivious of one another.

Many things that transcend name bond the Oyos, egbas, ondos, Ekiti, Ijeshas, Owus etc. They related as brothers with common history, ancestor, culture, social, religious and political values.

You mean this sort of common heritage as described below by fellow Yoruba historians.

You guys come here daily trying to use Benin to whitewash your past shameful history to unify yourselves. People that Yoruba history record and remember as former slaves and sacrificial goats to the gods are now all forming princes and Omoluabi from Ife.

The same people that their own Yoruba history record as former slaves that were sacrificed to the gods come here to argue the history of Lagos and Lagos monarchy with the Oba of Lagos himself.

Regarding "food", the historian Samuel Johnson made the following claim in his book:

"The origin of the Ijebus has been variously given ; one account makes them spring from the victims offered in sacrifice by the King of Benin to the god of the ocean, hence the term Ijebu from Ije-ibu, i.e., the food of the deep. The Ijebus themselves claim to have descended from Oba-nita, as they say of themselves, "Ogietiele, eru Obanita," i.e., Ogetiele, servants of Obanita. But who was this Oba-nita? Tradition says he also was a victim of sacrifice by the Olowu or King of Owu." - Samuel Johnson, The History of the Yorubas, pp. 18-19

A historian, Tunde Oduwobi, gives an interesting analysis of this ascription of servile origins to the Ijebu in his publication "Early Ìjèbú history: An analysis on demographic evolution and state formation" (2006). Oduwobi also notes in that article and in another article that, of course, the Ijebu had their own completely different traditions about their origins.

samuk:


(1) Your insults is coming from you as someone from a rival group not a subgroup.

(2) Johnson and other Yoruba historian that wrote Ijebu history are part of the same subgroup, why will they write such or make up such history if it wasn't true.

(3) You all are trying to whitewash your previous past by attaching yourselves to the Ife myth. People who history catalogued as sacrifices to the gods are now suddenly princes from Ife.

(1) That's the whole point, "sub-groups" --- In other words there is still some distinct identity despite belonging to the same broader group.

So, the "insults" are coming from outside that sub-group as your copy & paste have debunked you by mentioning that the Ijebus never had such to say about themselves.

(2) I am not sure where you manufactured it from that Johnson was a historian and that he belonged to the Ijebu subgroup.

On the contrary, the historian (Tunde Oduwobi) also mentioned in your copy & paste also agrees with me that the "insult" is from outside of the sub-group.

Moreover, Johnson was simply collecting different traditions floating around regardless of which subgroup is narrating it, and about which subgroup it is being narrated.

(3) Ife origin = White washing.??

Although this claim of yours is without any evidence or basis as usual, yet it shows that you somehow admit the primacy and ascendancy of Ife somwhere within you.

FlyoruB:


Perhaps that is because no 'true answer' would suffice to you simply because you are actually not after the truth. By default, only Yorubas can factually give you the true answer to your question (which they already did), considering that you're not yoruba yourself. But due to your preconceived bias in respect of the subject matter, no explanation from the Yorubas would ever be enough.

See am trying to be neutral here am not here to find who just own the word oba

But am here to try to ascertain if benin and ife ever existed

Its not because yoruba are saying the word oba means king in Yoruba land that makes it correct

So many yoruba title can serve as king especially olu,

Why did oromiyan name benin king oba the exact title for kingship in yoruba land

The word oba should have been the king of ife title and not necessarily ooni if we are to believe ife is the originator of Yoruba people and thier language
The royalty of ife should be called oba from the start and not ooni because they are the owner and the originator of the word. then why would oromiyan name a strange tribe that came to ask for a king the original title for king in to a strange tribe...