PrecisionFx:


Are u blind?

I said anything outside the 10 commandments in the bible isnt a sin.

If rape is a sin, show me where bible said so or keep mute

I was just agreeing with you, that rape wasn't mentioned in the ten commandments therefore not a sin. I also said Necrophilia is not found in the ten commandments, therefore not a sin. Don't forget that recieving the mark of the beast is not part of the ten commandments.

Kai!
Satan has entered our churches.

Is that why you couldn't tell me the church you attend?

Youngsage:

Typical Nigerian answer.
Answer a question, with another question, usually to defend sheer ignorance.

Don't fo yourself. You questioned my assertion. Come up with facts to debunk it.

PrecisionFx:



U are insisting on being confused.

Sex outside marriage isn't a sin God was just being brutal in the Old Testament!

You know what Jesus said:
Mat 13:30:
"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather you together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."

This wise will understand this!

mrkings84:


No bro, just as you quoted 1Cor5:1, a man sleeping with his father's wife is just the height of it. Fornication is the sex between two unmarried adults. Incest is when two adults who are related by blood have sex.

atleast you have known that a man having sex with his father's wife is fornication, whether you call it the height of it or not, it is clearly stated in that scripture, so it is best following scriptures to understand.
But this one that you are saying fornication involve unmarried adults, there is no scripture in the bible that indicate that, trust me.
That idea came from the ancient orthodox catholic beliefs and we are still believing it today.

And one thing the church has failed to establish is, whenever two adult have agreed to have a relationship, from that moment marriage has started.
This also adjourn us that every union involving two adult so long they are 18years and above, should be taken seriously as marriage.
No double dating,
No cheating.

And any child that comes from such union should be given the serious attention from both the man and the woman as though they have wedded.

But what is happening in our society today?
You will see a guy broken up from his girlfriend just like that, saying afterall i did not wed you or pay your bride price.
That to God is divorce

shadeyinka:

Fornication have various shades of meaning including sexual immorality.

Now in the case of

Matthew 19: 9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication , and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery

The word fornication specifically as used by Jesus is NOT
1. incest,
2. bestiality,
3. sodomy,
4. rape, and
5. sex with another man's wife/husband or
6. sex with a woman engaged to another man
BUT
7. sexual immorality
All you need to do is slot each in as a synonym for fornication and see if the scripture remain valid.

Note that Jesus was referring to a MARRIED woman. Whoever she sleeps with outside her husband is SEXUAL immorality which constitute adultery against the husband.

this is wrong. Jesus said except on the ground of fornication (or sexual immorality) - the wife commits fornication. It has nothing to do with the other person the wife sleeps with, unless you are saying that it is only wrong if she sleeps with a single person.

According to your definition, if she cheats with a married person, has either of them committed fornication? If not, it means the husband cannot divorce her for cheating?

Note that everything you listed up there constitutes sexual immorality. Sexual immorality is the same as fornication (fornication is coined from Greek and wasn't used in the old testament manuscripts). It includes every sexual activity that is considered immoral or wrong.

On some occasion, sexual immorality (fornication in some translations) is used separately from adultery to capture everything else that isn't adultery, and in some other cases it is used as a synonym for adultery. That's why Jesus used it in reference to marriage persons. The Mosaic law is already clear on what sexual activities were wrong. There was no new law given to christians that defines sexual immorality differently.

Secondly,
So that you will not think it absolves dating couple.

Can you please answer what happens if I married a wife but on consummation I discover that she isn't a Virgin?
(Her excuse was that her former boyfriend deflowered her).
Does this argument hold?

Deu 22:20-21:
"But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she has worked folly in Israel, to play the LovePeddler in her father's house: so shall you put evil away from among you."

Can you see that one who lost her virginity is TREATED as a _whore? Does it matter if it was just once with a former boyfriend?

In your view, what is the expectation from a maiden on her wedding day?
And
Do you think that sexually expressive dating relationship MUST eventually lead to marriage?

that example has nothing to do with marrying the person who deflowered her. It's for when she sleeps around, so her eventual husband never had any sexual contact with her but he discovers for the first time that she wasn't a virgin on their wedding night AND he raises alarm.

The thing many of you don't understand is that many of those laws were male-centric and treated women as piece of property, so the laws protected him from unknowingly buying 'used property' disguised as new. From the mosaic law, the only thing that made sex between two consenting adults wrong is if they don't end up marrying, so that another man would then end up marrying a lady that someone else has slept with already.

It's also the reason why consentual sex with a woman engaged to ANOTHER man was punishable by DEATH, but something as bad as raping a woman that wasn't engaged only resulted in the man making a sin offering, having to marry her and not be allowed to divorce her all his days. If it wasn't rape, then he doesn't even offer a sin offering. Just has to pay her father money and marry her IF HER FATHER AGREES. Can't you see that this applies only to cases where the man an woman aren't already planning to marry?

I'm still waiting for the law that talks about two unmarried persons engaged to each other who have sex. What happens to them?

shadeyinka:

Sex outside marriage isn't a sin God was just being brutal in the Old Testament!

You know what Jesus said:
Mat 13:30:
"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather you together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."

This wise will understand this!

""Sex outside marriage isn't a sin God was just being brutal in the Old Testament!""

It is only brutal to a woman who does not marry the man who disvirgined her......Digg it.

What about formication and adultery?

PrecisionFx:



Sexual immorality is deviant sex like Necrophilia, Beastility, sleeping with prostitutes, Anal sex, homosexualism, etc.

PrecisionFx:


""Sex outside marriage isn't a sin God was just being brutal in the Old Testament!""

It is only brutal to a woman who does not marry the man who disvirgined her...... Digg it.

exactly.

Bahddo:
this is wrong. Jesus said except on the ground of fornication - the wife commits fornication. It has nothing to do with the other person the wife sleeps with, unless you are saying that it is only wrong if she sleeps with a single person.

According to your definition, if she cheats with a married person, has either of them committed fornication? If not, it means the husband cannot divorce her for cheating?

PS: everything you listed up there constitutes sexual immorality. Sexual immorality is the same as fornication (fornication is coined from Greek and wasn't used in the old testament manuscripts). It includes every sexual activity that is considered immoral or wrong. That's why Jesus used it in reference to marriage persons. The Mosaic law is already clear on what is wrong.

Fornication strictly is NOT sleeping with an unmarried person. Fornication comes from the Greek word porneo from which the word pornography comes from. It means sexual immorality in its broad sense.

A married woman can be divorced on the grounds of fornication (sexual immorality) which translates (whatever the form into Adultery).
I think the scripture is simple to understand.

Mat 19:9:
"And I say to you, Whoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication , and shall marry another, commits adultery: and whoever marries her which is put away does commit adultery."

Bahddo:

that example has nothing to do with marrying the one person she was engaged to and slept with. It's for when she sleeps around, so her eventual husband never had any sexual contact with her but he discovers for the first time that she wasn't a virgin on their wedding night AND he raises alarm.

The thing many of you don't understand is that many of those laws were male-centric. From the mosaic law, the only thing that made sex between two consenting adults wrong is of they don't end up marrying, so that another man would then end up to marry a lady that someone else has slept with.

It's also the reason why consentual sex with a woman engaged to ANOTHER man was punishable by death, but something as bad as raping a woman that wasn't engaged only resulted in the man making a sin offering, having to marry her and not be allowed to divorce her all his days.

I'm still waiting for the law that talks about two unmarried persons engaged to each other who have sex. What happens to them?

How many time does a woman have to sleep around for her to commit adultery?
You still have to explain why the punishment for not being a virgin in the old testament was death.

Instead what does the bible say:

1Cor 7:8-9:
"I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain , let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn ."

What do you think this scripture mean? Wouldn't legalized fornication solve the problem of burning?

PrecisionFx:


""Sex outside marriage isn't a sin God was just being brutal in the Old Testament!""

It is only brutal to a woman who does not marry the man who disvirgined her......Digg it.

Mt13:20

shadeyinka:

Fornication strictly is NOT sleeping with an unmarried person. Fornication comes from the Greek word porneo from which the word pornography comes from. It means sexual immorality in its broad sense.

A married woman can be divorced on the grounds of fornication (sexual immorality) which translates (whatever the form into Adultery).
I think the scripture is simple to understand.

Mat 19:9:
"And I say to you, Whoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication , and shall marry another, commits adultery: and whoever marries her which is put away does commit adultery."

finally you've agreed that fornication isn't a term exclusively different from adultery. You are making progress however small.

How many time does a woman have to sleep around for her to commit adultery?

it's only adultery if she's married.

You still have to explain why the punishment for not being a virgin in the old testament was death.

that wasn't a punishment for not being a virgin. It was a punishment for marrying someone else who didn't deflower her. The reason is simple, the man has been tricked into marrying a lady that another man has deflowered. What if it's the eventual husband that deflowered her before that night? Would he also raise alarm? Would she be put to death?

Instead what does the bible say:

1Cor 7:8-9:
"I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain , let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn ."

What do you think this scripture mean? Wouldn't legalized fornication solve the problem of burning?

to burn means to be inflamed with passion which could make them start sleeping around. The Bible (when you consider the old and new testament together) intended for people (especially women) to have just one sexual partner until one of them dies. So if you do have sex with a lady that wasn't married or engaged, marry her (Exodus 22: 15, 16) if her father agrees. Don't leave her for an unsuspecting man to get tricked into marrying.

3For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
7. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
- I Thess 4: 3-7 (KJV)

note how Paul brought fraud into an issue of sexual immorality? Ties in seamlessly with the Mosaic laws that protected a man from being TRICKED into marrying a woman deflowered by another man. He's saying don't do that, don't take what you aren't going to own, don't shortchange another man (your brother in the Lord).

of all things God is concerned with what u use such a primitive organ such as penis and vagina to do he must be idle.

Bahddo:
finally you've agreed that fornication isn't a term exclusively different from adultery. You are making progress however small.

Check my previous posts, you are the one misunderstanding me.

Bahddo:

it's only adultery if she's married.

Of course I meant for a married woman. It take just one sex outside marriage for it to be adultery.

Think well about this next question:
By you definition of fornication, how many girls/men does a guy/girl has to sleep with for her to be guilty of forication?

Compare your response with your quote below

Bahddo:

that wasn't a punishment for not being a virgin. It was a punishment for marrying someone else who didn't deflower her. The reason is simple, the man has been tricked into marrying a lady that another man has deflowered. What if it's the eventual husband that deflowered her before that night? Would he also raise alarm? Would she be put to death?

In other words when does a young unmarried man or woman become guilty of fornication? (How many people must he/she have slept with?)?

Bahddo:

to burn means to be inflamed with passion which could make them start sleeping around. The Bible (when you consider the old and new testament together) intended for people (especially women) to have just one sexual partner until one of them dies. So if you do have sex with a lady that wasn't married or engaged, marry her (Exodus 22: 15, 16) if her father agrees. Don't leave her for an unsuspecting man to get tricked into marrying.

Then by this fornication is sleeping with anyone you finally didn't get married to. Or in other words, once you sleep with a girl you MUST marry her (with all her shortcomings) because you fear the Lord . And you may never divorce her.
Is this your position?

Bahddo:

note how Paul brought fraud into an issue of sexual immorality? Ties in seamlessly with the Mosaic laws that protected a man from being TRICKED into marrying a woman deflowered by another man. He's saying don't do that, don't take what you aren't going to own, don't shortchange another man (your brother in the Lord).

Talking about Fraud!
Where then will they find the token of her virginity (which is usually presented to the family amidst celebrations). I want to believe you are familiar with the Jewish culture. Or do you think the groom and bride will sprinkle a chicken's blood on the white clothe and present it to the Father in-law as the token of virginity? Which one is really fraud?

Secondly, even if we go by your redefinition of fornication to mean sleeping around or with someone you are NOT 'engaged to be married to", do you think it answers the following scriptures?
1. 1Cor 7:2:
"Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."

The solution to fornication seems to be marriage and NOT to have a person you'll be having an exclusive dating relationship.

2. 1Cor 10:8:
"Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty
thousand."

What was the fornication spoken of here?
Num 25:1:
"And Israel lived in Shittim, and the people began to fornicate with the daughters of Moab."

I wonder what the guy said to the Moabite woman?
Let me break it down; the guy saw a beautiful Moabite lady and went to toast her...not too different from what happens now abi?

3. What is difficult in keeping the marriage bed undefiled (before and after marriage)?

Heb 13:4:
"Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled: but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."

May God help our inner mind to stick to the word, also grant us spirit to do God's will

shadeyinka:

Check my previous posts, you are the one misunderstanding me.


Of course I meant for a married woman. It take just one sex outside marriage for it to be adultery.

Think well about this next question:
By you definition of fornication, how many girls/men does a guy/girl has to sleep with for her to be guilty of forication?

Compare your response with your quote below

In other words when does a young unmarried man or woman become guilty of fornication? (How many people must he/she have slept with?)?

it's not about the number, but the nature. If you sleep with someone without the intention of marriage, it becomes something casual like visiting a prostitute just to satisfy your urges. That is what marriage was setup to achieve - provide a secure environment for raising kids, making it possible for everyone to have a clear line of descent and for men to take responsibility for their children as they can more easily tell which is thiers.

Then by this fornication is sleeping with anyone you finally didn't get married to. Or in other words, once you sleep with a girl you MUST marry her (with all her shortcomings) because you fear the Lord . And you may never divorce her.
Is this your position?

you seem not to understand the simplest stances. Fornication (porneia) according to the bible is all outlawed sexual activity. It is the same as sexual immorality, and even includes adultery in its broadest sense.

Talking about Fraud!
Where then will they find the token of her virginity (which is usually presented to the family amidst celebrations). I want to believe you are familiar with the Jewish culture. Or do you think the groom and bride will sprinkle a chicken's blood on the white clothe and present it to the Father in-law as the token of virginity? Which one is really fraud?

Jewish custom is borne from the Mosaic law that states how issues of accusation of not being a virgin (when he had relations with her) should be handled (Deut 22: 13 - 19). The Mosaic law does not make it compulsory, but provides it as a basis for settling such disputes - if you are sleeping with your wife for the first time, better put cloth so if she isn't a virgin AS YOU THOUGHT, you have proof. Do you think people who performed brother-in-law marriages to bear child for a diseased relative did this 'proof of virginity' too? It's simply a case of ensuring you got what you paid for, and even if it became a Jewish custom, the law did not mandate every newly wedded to 'gift' the woman's parents that cloth. Those verses didn't even say when the parents gain possession of it (before the accusation or after? Was it given to them by their son in-law or their daughter?)

Custom is custom and law, law. It's the laws God gave that show us how he viewed matters, not what others do as a result.

Secondly, even if we go by your redefinition of fornication to mean sleeping around or with someone you are NOT 'engaged to be married to", do you think it answers the following scriptures?
1. 1Cor 7:2:
"Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."

The solution to fornication seems to be marriage and NOT to have a person you'll be having an exclusive dating relationship.

Funny you should quote this. This can be easily rephrased as "to avoid sleeping around, have your own legal partner."

2. 1Cor 10:8:
"Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty
thousand."

What was the fornication spoken of here?
Num 25:1:
"And Israel lived in Shittim, and the people began to fornicate with the daughters of Moab."

I wonder what the guy said to the Moabite woman?
Let me break it down; the guy saw a beautiful Moabite lady and went to toast her...not too different from what happens now abi?

you think the Israelite men got engaged to the Moabite women with plans to marry them? Also can you say for sure that all the men were single men? They simply had casual sex with no strings attached.

Note that it is not even sex that made God's anger blaze against them. Numbers 25: 1 - 9 clearly shows that God was angry because they bowed down to other gods (eg Ba'al) and the instruction was to kill everyone who committed idolatory (not every one who had sex) - Numbers 25: 5.

3. What is difficult in keeping the marriage bed undefiled (before and after marriage)?

Heb 13:4:
"Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled: but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."

you don't have a marriage bed before marriage. That part only talks about married persons. It is both fornication (unlawful sex) and adultery (sex with someone else while married).

Quick questions for you.
1) What was the punishment under the Mosaic law for a man having relations with the woman engaged to him?
2) Why is it that consensual sex with a woman married or engaged to another man was punishable by death, but forcing an unmarried and unengaged woman into sex (rape) wasn't?

Ghenisean:
A guy in a relationship with a girl,is kissing and romance between these two a sin

Yes o, abstinence is the real deal approved by God....

Anuoluwa1234:
lol, laughing in Spanish... Read what u typed, English is using you to play leg over..

My brother me and myself tire for some of the comments o

shadeyinka:

I've been married for several years now. I courted my wife for 2years 6months before marriage. I was a virgin and so was she. We were both committed to not having sex before marriage. And I tell you that till tomorrow it helps us to trust each other even when I travel for months overseas, she knows with no iota of doubt that I wouldn't sleep with those "willing white girls"!

From your writeup, I know you don't mean harm BUT you have unconsciously mislead many young people by insinuating that they could test out their sexual compatibility before marriage.

As a married man, I am sure that you know that there is a difference between a once-a-week/occasional sex with a girlfriend AND an almost daily sex with a wife? A girl you sleep with once or twice a month will act differently when she sees that sex is and average of 4-5 a week endlessly, year after year.

In other words, a girlfriend's sexual disposition does not guarantee any continuity during marriage.

Thanks my brother for sharing your wealth of experience. This will go a long way in helping those who truly want to learn.

My own is that when a Panis enters a virginal, en don't enter if you like call am adultery of furnication. Folks Panis has enter a virginal period.

My own is that when a Panis enters a virginal, en don't enter if you like call am adultery of fornication. Folks Panis has enter a virginal period.

mrkings84:


Thanks my brother for sharing your wealth of experience. This will go a long way in helping those who truly want to learn.

Thanks my brother for the encouraging words

shadeyinka:

I've been married for several years now. I courted my wife for 2years 6months before marriage. I was a virgin and so was she. We were both committed to not having sex before marriage. And I tell you that till tomorrow it helps us to trust each other even when I travel for months overseas, she knows with no iota of doubt that I wouldn't sleep with those "willing white girls"!

From your writeup, I know you don't mean harm BUT you have unconsciously mislead many young people by insinuating that they could test out their sexual compatibility before marriage.

As a married man, I am sure that you know that there is a difference between a once-a-week/occasional sex with a girlfriend AND an almost daily sex with a wife? A girl you sleep with once or twice a month will act differently when she sees that sex is and average of 4-5 a week endlessly, year after year.

In other words, a girlfriend's sexual disposition does not guarantee any continuity during marriage.

I appreciate you been very positive,,,,But i want to tell you that you were just Lucky and dont use your situation as a yardstick to measure others..you are a virgin and your mate too was a virgin....that is like 10% if not less, like i said you are Not qualified to handle complex marrital issues or matters because you had yours very easy ...Some women will deny your questions and their family too will help them cover up, i nearly have a heartbreak, the Next lady i dated again was from Imo state and she pretend to be too Nice and she actually told me that No sex bebore marriage and also assured me that she was intanct, After i had already spent monies for her and her younger sisters in 2006 a Guy just called me and introduced himself as Uche, he just advised me to keep away from that girl, i was asking him how he got my number he said that i should ask her that uche said she had done abortion for him, and i should ask her youger sister Schooling in benin which i have the Number, i just shove it aside that night and thought it was one of these jealous guys because she told me that she is not in any relationship again, i called her sister in Benin and ask who is Uche to her sister my Girlfriend, Her sister just switched off the phone and i called her severaly that day she didnt pick, i called my Girlfriend severally she didnt pick, well i cant imagine how disorganised i was throughout that day finally she called me around 11 pm i was already sleeping because food wasnt even sweet in my mouth that day, She now told me that Uche was one of her ex but they dont see each other again i now ask how he Got my Nunber she denied that, ok is it truth you had abortion for him, she kept quiet because she never told me...i now put it to her that she still sees uche, infact from information uche copied my number from her phone..anyway the relationship ended like that i was soo confused that time and my parents were also searching for me but i vehemently told them to stop, i was 34 that time and my youger ones are married ..i told my parent that i will be the one to chose what suites me because i will be the one to live with the wife not them....so in all the road to my own marriage wasnt smooth, some are lucky and some are Not ...i have 3 kids now...my older cousine that married a virgin 12 years Ago had no issues till date..My final point is just show people what is right, But let them chose how to make or determine their choice, i dont suggest that people should follow my example relating it too does not mean that i am advising anybody, anyway we want to please God first and he will guide us and also forgive us where we erred thanks

Just typing False all over the place, without advancing superior points to defend your
position? For example it's false claims that fornicators and adulterers are sexual thieves and there's guilty after sexual sin. What is your point there? What in your own thought is the purpose for sex if not procreation and satisfaction?

Kobojunkie:
I simply pointed out some of the untruths in your write-up.

PrecisionFx:



Oga there is nothing like Christian's snd genuine Christian.....U are either a Christian or ur not

Says who?
My dear let no one d deceive you.
It's either you are a born again Christian or just a religious fanatic which is what many are.... Don't you Know it's not all that say Lord Lord that will make their way to God's kingdom?

Thanks and God bless you @mod who took the article to fp.
To everyone whose contribution, question, argument helped make the discussion interesting may God bless you richly.

Like you know sex education is very broad, will try to drop the part 2 of it anytime soon.

We know that this is one aspect of life that people shy from talking about. Many Christian parents think it odd to educate their children on sex related matters, some churches too do not think it necessary to educate their teaming youth on it thereby leaving the kids/youth to learn this things in the wrong hands.

May God deliver the Christian child from sexual immorality.

mrkings84:

Yes o, abstinence is the real deal approved by God....

But it isn't sexual intercourse naa , I date with sexual intercourse far from the two of us,but,kissing maybe once once or occasionally,that is quite hard to let go ooo,it'll be like a normal friendship between a boy and a girl when there's no kissing. There'll be nothing special about the relationship,no ties at all,is like an everyday friend who you call or text sweet words every time,only you check am naa

mrkings84:


That u don't agree with a particular point don't make it false

Leave that guy. He knows not what he's talking about

mrkings84:


Says who?
My dear let no one d deceive you.
It's either you are a born again Christian or just a religious fanatic which is what many are.... Don't you Know it's not all that say Lord Lord that will make their way to God's kingdom?

U are the deceived one.

U are either a christian or u are not.

There are no middle grounds

PrecisionFx:


U are the deceived one.

U are either a christian or u are not.

There are no middle grounds

First it was, there is no sexual immorality but sex. Now it's there is no genuine Christian, but Christian.

Your choice of complicating simple concepts na wa o.