₦airaland Forum

TAO12:
His skull thick. So, I plan to drill it till I reach the vacuum.

gregyboy:
#Pained but truth.

Ife is a mythical kingdom. I don read yoruba history finish...... Thanks to my empty skull

gregyboy:
[s]I will stop replying if i dont see new findings from you

Am serious[/s]

gregyboy:
[s]You didnt learn anything in the previous thread still cycling rubiish.......

Oh boy........ If i see something new then we will talk but fornow nothing

Go and read more take time......

If you got anything new post it,post new findings[/s]

gregyboy:
You too like play this pikin get sense

TAO12:
Oghene refers to person.

Ife refers to place.

Your Oba EwekaII says he prays suplicates to the "Oghene of Ife". Yes, he used this precise wording.

Refer to H.L. Ward-Price's Dark Subjects (London, 1939), p.238.

I know I am about to kill you.

BabaRamota1980:
You want slave to know difference between Oghene and Ife. Tao, do you know what i found out?

These rascals were taught what they know by dutch and portuguese freaks. What they know of their own land and kingdom was distorted and rephrased into new dimensions that they had to learn anew. The new lessons is what they are regurgitating up and down.

Oba Eweka II narrated to portuguese that when sun rises in morning he looks out to the sun and gives praise to Oghene in Ife. He never told white man his Oghene is located in East. The whiteman in turn is a sailor. To all sailors who were trained in the use of azimuth to calculate distance and landings, the Northern and Eastern cardinal points were critical. When whiteman heard sunrise to him that is East. He penned in his diary, the king of Benin praises Oghene in East. In actual fact there is no Oghene in East but at sunrise Oghene must be praised. Whiteman mis-interpreted sunrise with East in reference to Oghene.

We know what it is because we are civilized. Gregyboy comes from a slave stock kept to offer sacrifice to Oghene altar, there can be no way he can know this. He has to depend on whiteman rendering of Oghene to know but two people are now lost. Whiteman is lost, Edo is lost. Thats what we are dealing with. But by the power of Babaloke himself and lagbara Oduduwa we shall set white man straight and then send hin to retrain Edo and set Edo straight.

BabaRamota1980:
Tao, God bless you jare.
Edeyoung/gregyboy, see your life now. You could have saved yourself these much embarassment but because your Edo ancestral rebellion has eaten deep into your spirit the only thing you know to do is seek banishment, expulsion, exile, poisoning, doublecrossing, cussing and witchery online. Study and copy the lifestyle of your Bini rulers and follow their ways. The Oduduwa way. Learn to accomodate, love, tolerance, leadership, learn civilization.
Bloody slave. Look, Baba lo ma pa e! Let me see you try another witchery here. I will banish you into Abiriba. Yeye thing.

TAO12:
I am not sure why you're thinking of stopping your replies.

You don't want these thread to get popular as Google search result so that the world won't see how I have uselessed Benin Kingdom.

gregyboy:
[s]I will just reply to this....... Send me new findings when you see it, my mails are open, you can post it here on Nairaland too

I will be wasting my time arguing on the discussion we have before which you failed woefully.......


For now my debate is up... Oduduwa is a myth, ife is a mythical kingdom and they were introduced and written by Samuel Johnson the first yoruba author....... Prove it[/s]

BabaRamota1980:
Thank God my engine is running again. . I will see guys later. Let me go collect my car from mechanic first. Gregyboy, God punish you and davidnazee. You must pay for my car repairs. Wicked people.

BabaRamota1980:
Thank God my engine is running again. . I will see guys later. Let me go collect my car from mechanic first. Gregyboy, God punish you and davidnazee. You must pay for my car repairs. Wicked people.

gregyboy:
Lol..... Your blood is what we need

TAO12:
You really wish him death!? On top weytin??

May the Yoruba deities of Benin Kingdom punish you severely before the end of tommorrow for this statement.

Àṣẹ!

gregyboy:
[s]Benin really dis alot influence to the yorubas sha

Ise- is pronounced ase" by the yorubas

While ami is originally that of the yorubas


TAO11 go and research and come argue you have lost your sanity, you sounding reckless and restless

I cant be arguing on what we have trashed amd you lost woefully

I want to be disproven to be sincere with you but with fact that leaves no doubt tho.........[/s]

gregyboy:
Lol..... Your blood is what we need

BabaRamota1980:
Bloody whincnh. Son of slaves.

gregyboy:
When a slave is pained

#Pained weakling

_{Ancient yoruba enslavement}

Lol, see the slave tribe calling a freeborn a slave ha , maybe you intended to pull my legs i wanted to ignore but no, not anymore bro

Most yorubas were in the past sold as slave through the Atlantic by the benins and by other Yorubas, ooh i am going to far on this one, let me narrow it down a little

Yes the benin ancestors enslaved the yorubas not only as mere slaves but as ritual slaves, we come to your home remove the heads of your kings and stake them on sticks, and still go ahead and place our benin kings in your territory _{bunch of weaklings}

The fulani brought down the mythical kingdom called oyo, and that is if it existed, but the myth made it know that the female warriors of dahomey raped the oyo men in war to death , and later removd the heads of the said warriors of oyo jeez


Democracy in the modern times have given you all powers to become great out of your population, _{but guess what a slave would always remain a slave}
Out of the three big tribe in nigeria yoruba are the loudest with empty vessel, the poorest ethnic group after the northern people and the perpetual slave to the north in modern politics
Just see osinbanjo, buhari has reduced him to an house boy

Just with biscuit and sweet you can get a yoruba man integrity


History can never lie the tribe yorubas are eternally cursed to be weaklings and slave to the strong.......


Am happy being a witch that is if males are called witch

bunch of weaklings and cowards mtcheew

Charleys:
I resurrect this thread once again

MelesZenawi:
Bini should kindly accept their Yoruba heritage and stop looking for people to attach history to without relation.

Imagine a Bini man saying onitsha and Bini has history but his name is Tunde/Oranmiyan, Yoruba man name is Tunde/Oranmiyan and Igbo man name is chima/Ebuka..

His king Oba.. Yoruba king Oba , Igbo Obi



Which history is more true than what we see with our eyes..


They should stop writing nonsense and team up with their kith and kin Yoruba.

TAO12:
Yet Oba EwuareII, and all his ancestors (including ObaEwekaII, et al.) continue to pay homage to Ife on their ascension.

It's a must!

Edeyoung:
Afonja.... From oyo........ Aboki afonja.....


Last we go lump una give northerners so dey will completely rule you all,

Ondo and ekiti and lagos would join the edo Republic d others we dash dem to d north

BabaRamota1980:
We dont join pussies that were whipped and occupied by Biafra.

TAO11:
Sha no go commit suicide oo.

Anyways, every sane and stable mind knows that they will rather go with my evidence-based conclusion (which is based simply on the submission of historians with full historical referencing).

Than to even read your gibberish rants which is simply a product of your wild emotional imagination with not even one tiny shred of academic historical referencing.

Indeed, truth is bitter!





Before you go, there is one last one I'm currently typing up oo --- The Ogane.

No go commit suicide oo.

engrsyer:
As long as I am concerned Bini Kingdom begat Yoruba nation

TAO11:
The following shows a listing of all the reigns in Benin kingdom starting from Oranmiyan's all the way down to before Ovoranmwen's whose partial reign and imminent deposing marked the beginning of the British colonial take over of Benin's polity.

Refer to https://www.edoworld.net/Obas.html for a verification of this listing.

1. Oronmiyan
2. Eweka I
3. Uwakhuanhen ☆
4. Ehenmihen
5. Ewedo
6. Oguola ☆
7. Edoni
8. Udagbedo
9. Ohen ☆
10. Ogbeka
11. Orobiru
12. Uwaifiokun ☆
13. Ewuare I
14. Ezoti
15. Olua ☆
16. Ozolua
17. Esegie
18. Orhogbua ☆
19. Ehengbuda
20. Ohuan
21. Ahenzae ☆
22. Akenzua
23. Akengboi
24. Akenkpaye ☆
25. Akengbodo
26. Oroghene
27. Ewuakpe ☆
28. Ozuere
29. Akenzua I
30. Eresoyen ☆
31. Akengbuda
32. Obanosa
33. Ogbebo ☆
34. Osemwende
35. Adolor
36. Ovoranmwen

(A) Starting with Oronmiyan as the reference point, I have indicated the successive "third-reigns" with a "☆" for ease of following through.

And there are obviously eleven "third-reigns" in total.


(B) If, however, one contends that Oronmiyan was not formally Oba at Benin, and that the enumeration should start with Eweka I as the reference point; then the eventual total number of "third-reigns" would still remain eleven.

(C) Even if one argues that the tradition resulted from an after-thought subsequent to when the "first" Oba Eweka I had already left the scene, then the eventual total number of "third-reigns" --- starting thus with Uwakhuahen as the reference point --- would still remain eleven.


As I have since noted before now, this resulting total number of "third-reigns" (i.e. eleven )
matches precisely the total number of circular "burial pits" (i.e. "eleven" ) which Frank Willett noted that he found at Orun Oba Ado, when he conducted an archaeological excavation of the site.

Refer below for reference to Frank Willett's find:
WILLETT 2004: Chapter 1.3. cited in James W. Lankton, O. Akin Ige, & Thilo Rehren, "Early Primary Glass Production in Southern Nigeria", Journal of African Archaeology, Vol. 4 (1), 2006, pp.125-126.
See copy here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274431270_Early_primary_glass_production_in_southern_Nigeria

Orun Oba Ado --- SEALED! Q. E. D.


Moving on the the OGANE or OGHENE topic while you all struggle for life on this one.

MetaPhysical OgboAto gomojam

TAO11:
According to d'Aveiros (c.1480) in the recenssion of de Barros (1552), the Ogane was "the most powerful MONARCH".

From the Portuguese account, it is clear that no amount of paid Benin propaganda can twist anything to mean priest.

It clearly says "monarch" --- that is, king.

Moving on --- The account says the following about this "most powerful monarch":

(1) He is known (at least) in Benin kingdom as the Ogane.

(2) His kingdom is to the east of Benin kingdom.

(3) His kingdom is some 20 'months'' journey away "because of the slow pace" travel.

(4) He sends (to Benin kingdom) a small shiny brass cross, a shiny brass helmet, among other things, as a confirmation of the new incoming Oba of Benin.


(a) Who then is the Ogane of the Portuguese text?

(b) Have historians ever attempted identifying who he actually is?

(c) Or have they simply left the issue untouched for Nairalanders to figure out?

The answers to the questions (b) and (c) appear to be the most obvious.

And the answers are Yes and No respectively.

In fact, historians have long debated each other on the identity of the Ogane.

For example, Ryder (1965) opined that the kingdom of the Ogane is "most probably" in the Niger-Benue confluence --- a location in the eastern side of Benin.

He himself quickly noted the setback in his own probabilistic conclusion by stating that: "Many objections may be raised against such an argument, the most cogent being those which demostrate the well known links between Benin and Ife."
--- Ryder, (1965), p.35.

Fast forward from the 1960s to our present time:

Have historians now settled this debate and come to a conclusion on the identity of this Ogane?

And this answer is yes!

Th historian, Adam Knobler (2016) points out this contemporary scholarly consensus as shown in the attachments below:

Having seen the contemporary scholarly submission (in our present time) on the identity of the Ogane in the Portuguese text, one may be then be curious to know how scholars came to resolve the dilema points (1) to (4) --- especially point (2) which talks about "east".

See next comment.

TAO11:
As has been shown, scholars in our present times have established definitively that the Ogane is none other than the Ooni of Ife.

But for the sake of curiosity, I will be examining how the puzzles from (1) to (4) (especially (2) which says the Ogane lives to the east of Benin kingdom) was resolved.

For (1):
Ogané is the Portuguese rendering of the actual indigenous Benin word to describe this "most powerful monarch."

In other words a certain name in Edo language ("??" ) became rendered in Portuguese as "Ogane".

Another example of European rendering is a Latin rendering of this same indigenous Benin word as Orguene, as seen on a 1525 map of Africa.

So what actually is the indigenous Benin word which is rendered in Portuguese and Latin as Ogane and Orguene??

By paying a special careful attention to the sounds, the Bini word Oghene seems to be the most plausible original Bini word which the Europeans attempted to render in their own tongues.

But did the ancient Binis ever use the word "Oghene" in relation to the "Ooni of Ife"??

The answer is a loud YES.

Starting with the most recent of the two evidences I will cite to prove this foregoing claim:

(a) In his "May 2004 The Benin-Ife Comnection", Omo N'Oba Erediauwa I noted emphatically that Oduduwa (who was the Ooni of Ife during his days) was known by the Benin people as Oghene n'Uhe.

Refer to the link below for "Oghene n'Uhe" in Oba Erediauwa II's May 2004 work: https://www.edo-nation.net/erediauwa1.htm

(b) Citing different instances of Ife's political influence as exercised through the Ifa cult, Robin Horton alludes to a Benin tradition in his 1979 "Ancient Ife: A Reassessment" as follows:

"Yet another tradition, this time from Benin, tells how the oracle of the Oghene of Uhe ("Oni of Ife" ) forewarned the Oba of Benin of impending calamity a few years before the disastrous encounter with the British."

Reference:
Robin Horton, "Ancient Ife: A Reassessment", Journal of the Historical Society of Nigeria, Vol 9. No. 4 (June 1979), p.124.


It therefore becomes clear at this point that the "Ooni of Ife" was known in ancient Benin as "Oghene" --- a 'name' which in European rendering became Ogane, Orguene, etc.


What about other three dilemas?? See next comments.

TAO11:
For (3):
The Portuguese account says that the Ogane's kingdom is "some 20 moons" walking distance away from Benin kingdom because of "slow pace" travel.

Is Ife actually some 20 moons' walking distance away from Benin kingdom at some olden days "slow pace" ??

Here, there is a natural temptation to attempt determining the walking duration between Benin and Ife using Google maps.

The consequent error from this temptation would result from the fact that walking durations on Google maps are based on assumptions that become less realistic the longer distances get.

For example, Google maps will not factor-in the "slow-pace" which the Portuguese account clearly acknowledges.

It will not consider how many stops were made, and how many days were spent camping or resting for each stop.

It simply assumes a quite rapid constant pace of continous, no pause, non-stop movement, come rain-come shine, come day-come night, without sleep, without rest, through out the entire lenght of the trip.

This is obviously very impracticable. In fact, Google maps always warn, even for very short distances saying: "Use caution --- walking directions may not always reflect real-world conditions."

The blatant error inherent in an attempt to use Google maps to answer the earlier raised question thus becomes very obvious.

To then answer the earlier raised question quite correctly, it is important that one first determines what may have been the pace of long walking trip traditionally in this part of the world.

A piece of data which I find very useful to find this traditional pace is seen in C. Okojie cited in Ryder (1965), p.27.

He noted that it traditionally took from 4months to 6months to complete a walking trip from Uromi (Ishan) to Benin-City --- a distance of some 50miles.

Based on the foregoing highly invaluable piece of data given by Okojie, alongside the well-known distance betwen Benin and Ife (i.e.about 171miles); we can therefore estimate the duration it must have traditionally taken (in months) to journey from Benin to Ife.

Calculation:
--------------------
(a) IF Ishan and Benin which are
about 50miles apart took about 5months long traditionally.

(b) THEN Benin and Ife which are about 171miles apart would have taken about (171÷50)×5months long traditionally.

When evaluated, this walking duration from Benin to Ife, based on the available traditional data came to more than 17months.

In fact, to be very strict with the numbers it can be demostrated that 17months is precisely equivalent to 19moons.

Calculation:
--------------------
(a) Typically, 1month contains 30.417days.

Therefore, 17months have 517.089days in it typically.

How many moons, therefore, are there in 517.089days??

To answer this correctly, the number of days in one moon must first be established.

(b) Typically, 1moon contains 27.322days.

Based on this, the number of moons in 517.089days is equal to (517.089÷27.322)moons --- that is, 19moons.

In other words, 17months is equivalent to 19moons.


In sum, the "traditional" duration of just over 19 moons which it takes to journey from Benin Kingdom to Ife therefore comes to precisely match the some 20 moons' journey of the Portuguese document.


For dilema (2) about "east", see next comment.

OgboAto MetaPhysical gomojam macof