Unnerve:

I'm not following you.

Is abortion legal for married women but illegal for unmarried women in Nigeria?

No it’s not. at least to my knowledge.

But Generally, a married woman who has an abortion by whatever route she’s able to get it often feels like less of a bad person than a single woman who did it. The fact that hospitals will do abortions for married ladies but not the single ones speaks volumes.

Yes some hospitals do this.

Yeah, it also means Nigerians are fu- ck-ing their way through life. They use intimacy for relaxation and stress relief The reason why they have too many children than they can care for. So sad they refuse to break the circle.
They still marry more than one or side chick their life away. It is a long tale told by a real person.

Keep it up husband and wife/wives/sidechicks/concubines

lalanice:
It means Nigeria men are not Reliable.

Nobody is happy to be risking their lives necessarily.

Hathor5:


Or will talk about the individual responsibility for the collective good but exempt 50% of the population from this responsibility and think we are righteous when we justify immoral behavior in the name of 'someone else will suffer greater consequences".

This lady

If we are going moral and righteous, it is no sex before marriage which negates this thread.

You simply want to eat your cake and have it.

In the days of old, women were seen as unequal to men and perceived to be liable to deceit. As a result, they were protected by gunshot weddings.

No man got a virgin or decent girl pregnant and could deny it. All it takes is for a crying pregnant girl to finger you as the father of her unborn child and gbam! it is marriage (to save face for the girl and family and hold the guy responsible for enticing a girl). In this system, women did not enjoy the autonomy over their bodies they do today and it was seen as a crime for a woman to abort a baby without the father's consent.

Sexual liberation came and men are the same as women, women are wise enough not to be deceived, women can decide the number of partners they have, there is no shame in baby mamaism, abortion is pro-choice, it is our body to do as we want etc. And yet, you still want to enjoy the protection of old where women were seen as victims because they were not equal footing and consequently treated as such?

It doesn't work that way.

You wear the big girl pants now, take responsibility for pregnancy and STDs, let the guy take responsibility for STDs.

Come to think of it, a guy can not force you to keep a pregnancy you don't want so why do you want to force him to father a child he doesn't want?

Where is the equality in that?

I agree with you 100%. Abstinence is the most effective contraception but if we are being realistic we will also recognize that different people for various reasons will not be interested in abstinence, and neither can we force others (men and women alike) to abide by abstinence... But should others feel the need to have sex, then I think the woman should have the freedom and the exclusive right to decide if she is indeed willing to expose her body to implications of pregnancy. Even in marriage.

Sixfeetbelle:


@ the bold, I would push for abstinence since responsibility for actions is being thrown out of the window here but we can't always get what we want, can we?

Point is, sex would always have complications like pregnancy no matter how safe you are so what to do when such occurs should be the issue here. The responsibility for such actions shouldn't be looked down on like the society is doing or abandoned like the male folks are known to do.

Hathor5:


I am not going to discuss the sex lives of my family members here, not that I know enough about it anyway.
And whether men of other races are quick to sleep with women without protection or not is irrelevant because it is not a common attitude to justify it with 'she is the only one to suffer the consequences'.

Like you said, their laws will have them take responsibility one way or another and their collective mentality is such that their absence in the child's life will be strongly condemned. Rightly so. It's the peak of immorality not to look after your own.

Now to those preachers and moralists on this forum who always repeat how important it is for a child to have a mother and a father, they should be the first to teach everyone to take responsibility.

Well my first quote to you was simply to let you know that when it comes to men having sex indiscriminately without thinking of consequences, it's not a Nigerian thing.

I also never expected you to discuss the sex lives of your family members here, I only stated that to get a better understanding of what I meant, you could ask. The information you get from asking would have been yours alone.
Perhaps you should try not getting so unnerved (pun intended) at anyone who isn't in complete agreement with you.

bukatyne:


[s]This lady

If we are going moral and righteous, it is no sex before marriage which negates this thread.

You simply want to eat your cake and have it.

In the days of old, women were seen as unequal to men and perceived to be liable to deceit. As a result, they were protected by gunshot weddings.

No man got a virgin or decent girl pregnant and could deny it. All it takes is for a crying pregnant girl to finger you as the father of her unborn child and gbam! it is marriage (to save face for the girl and family and hold the guy responsible for enticing a girl). In this system, women did not enjoy the autonomy over their bodies they do today and it was seen as a crime for a woman to abort a baby without the father's consent.

Sexual liberation came and men are the same as women, women are wise enough not to be deceived, women can decide the number of partners they have, there is no shame in baby mamaism, abortion is pro-choice, it is our body to do as we want etc. And yet, you still want to enjoy the protection of old where women were seen as victims because they were not equal footing and consequently treated as such?

It doesn't work that way.[/s]

You wear the big girl pants now, take responsibility for pregnancy and STDs, let the guy take responsibility for STDs.

Come to think of it, a guy can not force you to keep a pregnancy you don't want so why do you want to force him to father a child he doesn't want?

Where is the equality in that?

The pregnancy is hers, the child is theirs.

If he doesn't want a child, he should wear a condom. Thanks for helping me make my point.



Don't be smart by half.

cococandy:

No it’s not at least to my knowledge.

But Generally, a married woman who has an abortion by whatever route she’s able to get it often feels like less of a bad person than a single woman who did it. The fact that hospitals will do abortions for married ladies but not the single ones speaks volumes.

Yes some hospitals do this.

This is good to know, I honestly didn't.

bukatyne:


My dear, those that will learn will learn.

Shebi we are still begging the 29yr old OP with N40k salary to marry the 22 year old abortion specialist on the other thread.

You know what I like about this life, we will postulate theories online and still logoff to the reality offline.

Seriously
I didn't see that.
It's well.

Unnerve:

Well my first quote to you was simply to let you know that when it comes to men having sex indiscriminately without thinking of consequences, it's not a Nigerian thing.

I also didn't expect you to discuss the sex lives of your family members here, I only stated that to get a better understanding of what I meant, you could ask. The information you got from asking would have been yours alone. Perhaps you should try not getting so unnerved (pun intended) at anyone who isn't in complete agreement with you.

But it's a Nigerian thing to justify it with 'she will suffer greater consequences' and get scot free.
Explains to some extent why this part of the world has highest rate of infections.

Hathor5:


The pregnancy is hers, the child is theirs.

If he doesn't want a child, he should wear a condom. Thanks for helping me make my point.



Don't be smart by half.

Keep cancelling my posts.

Your friend is giving her boyfriend ultimatum in the other thread to marry her after several abortions.

The pregnancy is hers; the baby is theirs.

No specie is as confused as you 21st century people who want to eat their cake and have it or not take responsibility for your actions.

None.

Hathor5:


The pregnancy is hers, the child is theirs.

If he doesn't want a child, he should wear a condom. Thanks for helping me make my point.



Don't be smart by half.

Babe, seriously or is this for pun
If he don't want a child, he should wear a condom.

Common.

Haba

Insist !!! they should be doing just that and stand her ground! Today na todayish no condom no s.e. x.

pmoye:
I agree 100% with your points. 100%.
This is the more reason why we should do something about the cultural restriction in Nigeria. Our women should have complete ownership of their bodies, whether to be pregnant or not. Both abortion and pregnancy take direct toll on a woman's body and that decision should never be up to a man who might have zero participation in the ensuing consequences.

Yes our women may be culturally restricted from openly procuring contraception, but a woman can insist that the man who wants to have sex with her uses protection. If he is not willing, then he should zip up. The message is clear, she is interested in having sex with him but she is insisting on him doing it responsibly.

bukatyne:


Keep cancelling my posts.

Your friend is giving her boyfriend ultimatum in the other thread to marry her after several abortions.

Stop derailing to distract from the poor arguments you are putting forth here.

A few lines were enough to addressed your lack of logical reasoning.

No long epistle needed.

sassysure:

Seriously
I didn't see that.
It's well.

That is what birthed all these abortion threads upandan.
https://www.nairaland.com/5932549/girlfriend-threatened-break-up-dont

sassysure:

Babe, seriously or is this for pun
If he don't want a child, he should wear a condom.

Common.

Haba

Sassy, will you tell your sons to be irresponsible? Will you? Even if you guard your daughters more you don't want your sons to have bastards all over the place and you don't want them to get sick either. Do you?

sassysure:

Babe, seriously or is this for pun
If he don't want a child, he should wear a condom.

Common.

Haba

Pregnancy is different from baby na.

bukatyne:


Keep cancelling my posts.

Your friend is giving her boyfriend ultimatum in the other thread to marry her after several abortions.

The pregnancy is hers; the baby is theirs.

No specie is as confused as you 21st century people who want to eat their cake and have it or not take responsibility for your actions.

None.

Is it me who is saying that 50% of the population don't have to take responsibility or you? Your confusion is serious.

Hathor5:


Stop derailing to distract from the poor arguments you are putting forth here.

A few lines were enough to addressed your lack of logical reasoning.

No long epistle needed.

@bold:

So says the lady who claims the pregnancy is for the woman while the baby is for the man & woman.

bukatyne:


@bold:

So says the lady who claims the pregnancy is for the woman while the baby is for the man & woman.

So your children don't have a father?

You exclude men from sexual responsibility yet you complain of Rapists and deadbeat fathers, issokay I dey look all of you.

bukatyne:


Sexual liberation came and men are the same as women, women are wise enough not to be deceived, women can decide the number of partners they have, there is no shame in baby mamaism, abortion is pro-choice, it is our body to do as we want etc. And yet, you still want to enjoy the protection of old where women were seen as victims because they were not equal footing and consequently treated as such?

It doesn't work that way.

You wear the big girl pants now, take responsibility for pregnancy and STDs, let the guy take responsibility for STDs.

Come to think of it, a guy can not force you to keep a pregnancy you don't want so why do you want to force him to father a child he doesn't want?

Where is the equality in that ?

1) Asking a man to participate in birth control is not female victimhood. I can’t see how you got to that conclusion

2) The man is not protecting the woman alone by participating. He’s protecting himself also. They are protecting each other. Because sensibly, two step protection is better than one

3) you almost sound like you have something against sexual liberation.

@bold, I have the answer to my question which you tried to respond cheekily to earlier which is “should men also practice responsibility to prevent unwanted pregnancies?”. I’m guessing your response is no.

pmoye:
I agree with you 100%. Abstinence is the most effective contraception but if we are being realistic we will also recognize that different people for various reasons will not be interested in abstinence, and neither can we force others (men and women alike) to abide by abstinence... But should others feel the need to have sex, then I think the woman should have the freedom and the exclusive right to decide if she is indeed willing to expose her body to implications of pregnancy. Even in marriage.

And if she is, it should be nobody's damned business. Whether being a single mother (cause the man denied his responsibility) or committing abortion (cause the man was irresponsible).

The be and end of this discuss is that whatever a woman decides to do with complications of sex should be her decision. Safe sex isn't guaranteed and neither is contraceptives 100% effective.

pmoye:
You would be surprised how many married men and women procure abortions every year in the country. That some men and women are married doesn't automatically mean they have special access to good sense with respect to unplanned pregnancies. And it is always the same story of the man not wanting to use condom while at the same time not discussing contraceptive options with the wife.

For those that are interested in blaming men, yes such men though married are irresponsible and I offer no apologies for saying that.

What amazes me every single time is meeting individuals engaging in unprotected sex and claiming the ensuing pregnancy to be an accident, a mistake. For those interested in interpreting the initial post beyond the intention to draw out a debate that emphasizes the fact that the woman is 100% the owner of her body and should determine whether and when she gets pregnant, I have no need to sate your desire to turn this into a men-vs-women thing. You can continue, which is the beauty of this forum.

Yes, married men and women are highly involved in unwanted pregnancies and both the pregnancies and/or the abortion directly affects the woman more than the man. It is simple biology.

Notice that it says maternal morbidity and mortality. Not paternal. Neither does it talk about who is to blame. The morbidity burden and the mortality burden of unplanned pregnancies are qualified with a gender-specific adjective maternal. I am not sure that the right approach to discuss this matter is by inviting men to share the blame (yes, they have a large portion of that already), but by recognizing that the woman suffers those two burdens exclusively and to recognize that they should own their bodies 100%. Even in marriage.

Thanks for this. Bold text especially.

cococandy:


I’m QUITE SURE you understand I meant pregnancy prevention. Not pregnancy itself and abortions.

But I’ll accept your response as non-facetious.

Now that it’s been established that both sides would benefit from being careful about preventing unwanted pregnancies (ergo reducing abortions), why are the posts encouraging the OP to broaden his Teachings judgement, not acceptable here?

Again, before the argument of “women suffer more” arises, let me state that I recognize that.

However, how would it hurt anyone if both men and women take actions to prevent such pregnancies?

Again, not saying women should leave it to men. Y’all know I dislike being deliberately misinterpreted hence the repetitions. Why does the statement that men need to be included in this conversation create controversy?

My response was facetious.

I have not read on this thread that men should not be taught or encouraged to prevent themselves from unwanted father.

However, common sense dictates that the person with the higher risk would be more concerned mitigating it.

For instance, if we were neighbors and you live downstairs while I am upstairs in a water logged area, who do you think would be more concerned when rain falls?

Who would insist on a resolution if the compound is water logged and sipping into your flat? Who would declare an emergency, get a day off and look for people to fix the issue?

Me in my dry flat upstairs?

If you invested 10% of your life savings in a restaurant and I invested 90% in January before pandemic hit, who would be having high BP now people can no longer eat out?

You that still have 90% to yourself?

The cost of an unwanted pregnancy or popping pills is higher on the woman than the man.

It is therefore the responsibility of the woman to ensure nothing goes wrong.

If the guy says he is a skydiver, enter the lagoon and dive there.

Some posters have suggested 'no condom, no sex' etc.

bukatyne:


This lady

If we are going moral and righteous, it is no sex before marriage which negates this thread.

I just want to quickly correct a misconception about ‘morals’.

Morals are subjective and personal.

“No sex before marriage” is a personal moral of some that isn’t true for ALL. A subjective moral shouldn’t be imposed on all.

liberalchick:

I just want to quickly correct a misconception about ‘morals’.

Morals are subjective and personal.

“No sex before marriage” is a personal moral of some that isn’t true for ALL. A subjective moral shouldn’t be imposed on all.

Can you share any moral code that encourages sex before marriage?

donbachi:
The both are to blame.if she wants it raw,tell her off.dont try to impress her with withdrawal method.dis method is the major cause of abortions..in my uni days.my girl took in.and the moment any girl takes in,the guy must have financial challenge.so,since we ran out of cash and luck.the innocent girl spoke with her friends,and she was asked to mix small stout,negro pepper,lipton,dry pepper and boil all together.we did as instructed.just 5mins after consumption,bleeding started..person pikin don dey die dey go..i rushed her to student abortion place..yes,we all had one and u do..injections and oral treatments were administered..and she survived it.today,i'm married to another woman.imagine if her womb was damaged from dat mixture..another man for dey suffer am today..say to abortion..use protections.

I hope you didn't marry a virgin though?

Some people just like skin to skin too much on this thread. what's wrong with a man using a condom? Isn't he protecting himself from STDs, fake pregnancy accusations, unwanted pregnancy, unprepared for fatherhood amidst others?


This thread ehn , it's sweeting my belly.

You’re trying to use analogies to drive a point home that I already stated to you that I got. Not necessary.

The only thing I wanted to verify is why it’s so controversial to include men in the topic of prevention.

bukatyne:


My response was facetious.

I have not read on this thread that men should not be taught or encouraged to prevent themselves from unwanted father.

However, common sense dictates that the person with the higher risk would be more concerned mitigating it.

For instance, if we were neighbors and you live downstairs while I am upstairs in a water logged area, who do you think would be more concerned when rain falls?

Who would insist on a resolution if the compound is water logged and sipping into your flat? Who would declare an emergency, get a day off and look for people to fix the issue?

Me in my dry flat upstairs?

If you invested 10% of your life savings in a restaurant and I invested 90% in January before pandemic hit, who would be having high BP now people can no longer eat out?

You that still have 90% to yourself?

The cost of an unwanted pregnancy or popping pills is higher on the woman than the man.

It is therefore the responsibility of the woman to ensure nothing goes wrong.

If the guy says he is a skydiver, enter the lagoon and dive there.

Some posters have suggested 'no condom, no sex' etc.

cococandy:


1) Asking a man to participate in birth control is not female victimhood. I can’t see how you got to that conclusion

2) The man is not protecting the woman alone by participating. He’s protecting himself also. They are protecting each other. Because sensibly, two step protection is better than one

3) you almost sound like you have something against sexual liberation.

@bold, I have the answer to my question which you tried to respond cheekily to earlier which is “should men also practice responsibility to prevent unwanted pregnancies?”. I’m guessing your response is no.

If a woman has autonomy over her body and decide to keep/abort a pregnancy, why are we dragging men into it? That negates the autonomy.

1. Read the full post you quoted.

2. You are still dancing around. Whether we like it or not, the woman naturally bears the brunt of sexual encounters gone awry pregnancy wise. If you are going to hold the guy for not preventing pregnancy, what happens if the guy says he wants a baby and the lady says no?

3. As a Christian, sex outside of marriage is a sin. So I don't understand what sexual liberation means except you are saying 'a husband/wife have the liberty to hang themselves from the chandeliers in their sitting room.'

Actually it was that other thread that you alluded to that made me start this. After reading that the lady had aborted severally for that irresponsible man (irresponsible even at 29) I kept wondering what she would have gained if any of the abortion had gone the wrong way. And to think that a woman would so submit her body to be toiled with at will to a man never ceases to surprise. I think we have established the fact that men having unprotected sex when we are not ready to be father is irresponsible and we have courts and social instruments to make the man own his responsibility in such a situation... Even then there are men who are unable to stand up to their bukata in such situation.

Take that other post for instance, getting pregnant for a man who cannot even fend for himself, the shame of a man who still lives on his father's hand-outs, must be a nasty experience for a mother-to-be.

But then all that will not remove the fact that the morbidity and mortality associated with getting pregnant (planned or not) belongs exclusively to a woman, and because of that alone the woman should have the final say when it comes to getting pregnant (planned or not).

bukatyne:


Keep cancelling my posts.

Your friend is giving her boyfriend ultimatum in the other thread to marry her after several abortions.

The pregnancy is hers; the baby is theirs.

No specie is as confused as you 21st century people who want to eat their cake and have it or not take responsibility for your actions.

None.

Acidosis:


I hope you didn't marry a virgin though?