₦airaland Forum

TAO11:
How does his being a former salve who was originally captured from Yorubaland help your argument here?? It obviously fails to help your argument — not even in the least way.

Nowhere does he say anything about correction.

.

They
self-identify as “Yoruba” precisely because returnee slaves of Yoruba descent chose the name, popularised it, and encouraged people in the region to embrace it.

Tao11... I think u should start taking comprehension classes

Ur article says the Hausa pronunciation is Yarriba, Yarba but Yoruba would be more correct

Now provide me with a historical work dating pre 1900 abt Oyo is King ...

is it too much to ask

TAO11:
I have debunked all these Vanguard writings repeatedly with the idea that:

If their final conclusion contradicts earlier original accounts, then they must give way.

And as I have shown again and again (see foregoing comment) from Crowther’s work and life, the word “Yoruba” is indigenous to the Yoruba people.

Still rubbish...

Running away from the burden of proof

Tao11 trying to force lies down my throat

Tao11: ur proof is false
Me: Why?
TAO11: because it doesn't predate 1900 and was written in 1997
Me: So let's see urs
Tao: (posts work that still doesn't predate 1900)
Me:

Tao11: the word Ri can be interpreted using the ijebu dialect
Me:So are u saying that ijebu gave the name Yoruba
Tao: it is a Oyo hegemonic term
Me: Ohh...So indirectly , u are saying that ijebu gave the Oyo's a hegemonic term
Tao: lEaRn tO rEAd b4 replying

Me anytime Tao11 writes a long speech that still doesn't contain a reference to the word Oyo is King in Yoruba

Atigba:
Oguta dont see themselves as Igbo

You know more about the identity of oguta people from far away Bini than the people of Oguta in Imo State.
Shameless

Atigba:
I'm Idu not Bini

There is nothing like Idu in Nigerian list of ethnicity. You, Sir is a Yorubanized Bini man

Bkayyy:
There is nothing like Idu in Nigerian list of ethnicity. You, Sir is a Yorubanized Bini man

No such thing as yorubanised Bini man in Nigeria list of ethnicity, You ,Sir are ignorant

Bkayyy:
There is nothing like Idu in Nigerian list of ethnicity. You, Sir is a Yorubanized Bini man

Our ancient name

Etinosa1234:
They
self-identify as “Yoruba” precisely because returnee slaves of Yoruba descent chose the name, popularised it, and encouraged people in the region to embrace it.

Tao11... I think u should start taking comprehension classes

Ur article says the Hausa pronunciation is Yarriba, Yarba but Yoruba would be more correct

Now provide me with a historical work dating pre 1900 abt Oyo is King ...

is it too much to ask

Hausa people make mistakes in pronouncing Oyo people’s supposed Hausa name, just as English people make mistakes in pronouncing your English name??

Isn’t that what you‘re trying to say Oh Lawd! Who did this boy offend??

Absurdity upon absurdities!
—————————————————————————
Also, you still haven’t explained what happened to the 1900s onwards to have made you insist that information must never come from it — even if such information contradicts nothing from earlier original accounts

Explain ya self!

Bkayyy:
There is nothing like Idu in Nigerian list of ethnicity. You, Sir is a Yorubanized Bini man

Case closed....very correct.


All these Yoruba Bini hunting for igbo history.

Etinosa1234:
No such thing as yorubanised Bini man in Nigeria list of ethnicity, You ,Sir are ignorant

Bini is an integral part of expansive Yoruba kingdom. You all are yorubas and also answer names plus some Bini names..

Yoruba/Bini history are interwoven.

Etinosa1234:
The same regular lies....

POST A REFERENCE TO WHERE CROWTHER STATED THE ORIGIN OF YORUBA TO BE YORUBA

At no point did I say Crowther wrote a book or anything on the origin of the name. I am obliged to defend only claims I made.

Instead, my point about Crowther is that, his many years of insistence (and eventual success) on the adoption of the name by all the sub-groups (as well as his statement that “Yarri.ba” and “Yaru.ba” are simply Hausa pronunciations) is a logical evidence that he is aware of the indigenous nature of the word “Yoruba”.


Your continued insistence that the word is indigenous to Hausa/Fulani (even when Crowther clarified that they only have a regional pronunciation) is tantamount to arguing as follows:

English speaking people gave you an English name, but the same English people are unable to pronounce the name correctly — hence an Edo man had to step in to help the English people figure out how to pronounce the English name they had given you.

This right here is basically what you’ve been defending. How absurd??

cc: Legend Hero, BabaRamota1980, MinorityOpinion.

oneeast3:
Useless old man shut up your dirty mouth , there's is NRI in the present day Anambra State. The only reason you don't want to accept there's Nri is because automatically it will further prove the point that igbos came from Nri.


[s][/s]

Where in Anambra State? I hope not Agukwu

Abaramanasseho:
I am igala by tribe but all you wrote about my tribe are all lies and mind you it was igala people that migrate to igbo land in place like nsuka, part of abakiliki part of Delta part of bayelsa part of Edo state part of anambra and even iyala people in Cross river state are igala. because we Bear igbo name especially in my local government (ibaji) who share boundaries with anambra, enugu, Delta and Edo does not mean that igbo were part of us. it is because we tolerate people and try create friendship in the past and that is why you see some igbo men and women bearing igala name like idoko and abara and even onu.

Igbos and Igalas share a common culture which was adulterated in some parts of Igala by the arrival of Fulani jihadists who brought Islam followed by the British who carved Igala land into Northern Protectorate, this brought some confusion. The good side is that Igbos see Igalas as close relatives and show them respect, in Anambra they hold government positions but some Igalas think they are part of Arewa especially the Igala Muslims

[s]

Abagworo:
Where in Anambra State? I hope not Agukwu

[/s]

Useless old man mechionu nsi.
Agukwunri is Nri, in case you don't know or you wanna feign ignorance as usual.

NRI as a nomenclature is traced to the present day Anambra particularly Agukwunri. Read more about it below.




List of rulers of Nri

The following is a list of rulers of Nri. The title of the ruler of Nri is eze Nri. He held religious and political authority over the Kingdom of Nri.

The Nri culture is believed to stretch back to at least the 13th century, with a traditional foundation by Eri dated 948. The 15th recorded eze Nri, Òbalíke, was deposed by the British administration in favour of the "warrant chief" system, but the title continued to be held; the current eze Nri, Ènweleána II Obidiegwu Onyeso, was instated in 1988.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_Nri

oneeast3:
[s][/s]

Useless old man mechionu nsi.
Agukwunri is Nri, in case you don't know or you wanna feign ignorance as usual.

NRI as a nomenclature is traced to the present day Anambra particularly Agukwunri. Read more about it below.




List of rulers of Nri

The following is a list of rulers of Nri. The title of the ruler of Nri is eze Nri. He held religious and political authority over the Kingdom of Nri.

The Nri culture is believed to stretch back to at least the 13th century, with a traditional foundation by Eri dated 948. The 15th recorded eze Nri, Òbalíke, was deposed by the British administration in favour of the "warrant chief" system, but the title continued to be held; the current eze Nri, Ènweleána II Obidiegwu Onyeso, was instated in 1988.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_Nri

There is nothing like tradition in Imo state just autonomous communities and streets.

MelesZenawi:
There is nothing like tradition in Imo state just autonomous communities and streets.

Lol. Probably he thought Anambra is his Imo state that has no proper origin, tradition nor culture.

Etinosa1234:
I'm basically tired of this back and forth...I know this is ur strategy to waste time..... But lemme ask u a few things.

Strategy to educate you?? I could swear you’re leaving my posts more informed than you came in even though your will-full self-inflicted ignorance is apparent.

Firstly.. U claimed Ahmed Baba diminished every claim that Hausa was not the ones who gave the name Yoruba.

He demolishes it because he had reference to Yoruba in his writing at about two centuries before the word appeared in Hausa writings.

And your authorities all seem to agree that it isn’t an Hausa/Fulani word.

For God sake it has absolutely no meaning in Hausa language or Fulfude.

So using ur theory, Did Ahmed Baba learn how to speak Yoruba so that he could give Oyo a name
Nb: the book Ahmed Baba wrote was to talk abt whether it was the will of Allah to enslave non Muslims... He also talked abt Katsina,Gobir and the likes

I am not sure where or who you got the idea from that he was responsible for giving the name. Certainly not from me. You seem to be imagining too much.

Writing about Yoruba people is not one and the same thing as coining their name.

Secondly, u hold Crowther as an authority on the name Yoruba. Kindly point to where Crowther talked abt the origin of the name Yoruba as being indigenous

You’re being willfully repetitive and ignorant. At no point did I mention that Crowther wrote a book or something else about the etymological origin of the name.

What I have repeatedly and clearly cited from Crowther is:

(a) His years of struggle ensuring that the name extends from the Oyo subgroup to all the other sub-groups.

My valid logical deduction from this is that a Yoruba man, Bishop, and Linguist could not possibly logically have rooted for an Hausa/Fulani name’s adoption by his people as their generic name. Such contrary thinking leads to absurdity.

(b) His clear statement that “Yarri.ba” and “Yaru.ba” are simply Hausa pronunciations.

To continue to insist that “Yoruba” is from indigenous Hausa/Fulani language (even in the light of this clear statement of S. Crowther) is tantamount to arguing that: English people gave you an indigenous English name, but they themselves always struggle with how to pronounce it, and that it took an Edo man to correct them back to what the indigenous English name should really be. Another absurd conclusion here.

Thirdly , inasmuch as my claim that Hausa were the originator was false, it still boils down to the root that the name was foreign, thereby supporting to an extent

I am glad you finally admitted that your two claims of Fulani and Hausa origins are eventually false. Let’s hope you won’t revert to any of this falsehood forever. You see why it is good to attend my classes??

Now, you have made a claim that the name is of some foreign origin any way. Okay!! Can we now see the proof for this very fresh claim??

Point me to any work from a historian that said the name Yoruba was indigenous from the word Oyo is King

I have repeatedly pointed you to “Oyo r’Oba” as stated by Farouk Martins in one of his publications on Race and History.

Are you still interested in seeing this to ensure I didn’t make it up?? And do you still maintain that seeing one such example will shut you up?? I hope to hear from you on this!

Fourthly, Since u are translating the word Ri to suit ur narrative of is ... and also using ijebu dialect as a support

Not to suit my narrative but because we are dealing with a word that must have emerged sometimes before the 1600s — recall that Ahmed Baba’s reference was in 1613.

Having this in mind, attempt must me made to account for the evolution of words especially as it is observable that the word for is has not remained constant even in the space of just 170 years — since the 1850s.

In that case, an attempt to unravel the pre-1600s equivalent would require collateral linguistic evidence from any Yoruba dialect that has remained relatively most stable in comparison to others. This idea rests on the linguistic principle that dialects are more homogenous the farther back in time since they all emerged originally from one proto-Yoruba.

The Ijebu/Itsekiri axis clearly stands out as being relatively more stable and removed from the center-stage dialect, hence my recourse to the Ijebu word for “is” (i.e. “ri” ) as a pointer to the proto-Yoruba word for “is”.

Yes, I know you may struggle a bit to grasp the technicalities here, but you can’t allow your ignorance imply to you that I’m being arbitrary.

... Kindly show me where it was said that a Yoruba person gave the name Oyo r'oba ...(that happened to be lost in time )

Again, you’re clearly assuming too much. Names of a sub-group, etc. do not have to come from one person.

Nobody agreed with you that the case with the Bini people is the exemplar that must be found everywhere else.

Even the word “Benin” doesn’t go back to one person — we just say the Portuguese.

Likewise, the phrase “Oyo is the King” (you seem to be strategically leaving out the “the” here) is one example of how the Oyo-subgroup prides itself amongst the other Yoruba subgroups.

This agrees perfectly with historical evidence for the following reason:

(i) The name “Yoruba” began in exclusive reference to the “Oyo” people.

(ii) Following the decline of Ife as a military and commercial power in circa 1450 (leaving it only with spiritual primacy), the Oyo-subgroup gradually rose to prominence among all the Yoruba-subgroups.

if Farouk Martin work is post 1900 then it is useless if the same Farouk doesn't have his references

I am not sure what the basis for this statement is. Talking of shifting the goal post.

Listen up lad and pay particular attention to the bolded:

If there is no early original account — prior to his writing — which refutes his narrative ([b]especially since his agrees with Yoruba practice, agrees with historical evidence as I have just shown, and also agrees with the syllabic structure of the word “Yoruba” itself) then his narrative remains valid as is.

MelesZenawi:
Bini is an integral part of expansive Yoruba kingdom. You all are yorubas and also answer names plus some Bini names..

Yoruba/Bini history are interwoven.

Repeating the same lie everyday never makes it true

TAO11:
[s] At no point did I say Crowther wrote a book or anything on the origin of the name. I am obliged to defend only claims I made.

Instead, my point about Crowther is that, his many years insistence on the adoption of the name by all the sun-groups (as well as his statement that “Yarri.ba” and “Yaru.ba” are simply Hausa pronunciations) is a logical evidence that he is aware of the indigenous nature of the word “Yoruba”.


Your continued insistence that the word is indigenous to Hausa/Fulani (even when Crowther clarified that they only have a regional pronunciation) is tantamount to arguing as follows:

English speaking people gave you an English name, but the same English people are unable to pronounce the name correctly — hence an Edo man had to step in to help the English people figure out how to pronounce the English they had given you.

This right here is basically what you’ve been defending. How absurd??

cc: Legend Hero, BabaRamota1980, MinorityOpinion.[/s]

Trash as usual...

Which historical account talks abt Oyo is King as the progenitor of Yoruba

MelesZenawi:
Bini is an integral part of expansive Yoruba kingdom. •••

Louder for those at the back.

Your claim is rooted in history!!

Etinosa1234:
Trash as usual...

Which historical account talks abt Oyo is King as the progenitor of Yoruba

Lol.

(1) The historical fact that Oyo rose to become the King among all the subgroups does.

(2) The historical fact that the name ”Yoruba” applied originally and exclusively to the Oyo subgroup does.

(3) The historical fact that nothing in earlier written original works contradicts this narrative does.

(4) And the linguistic fact that the phrase itself (among all the foregoing facts) agrees with the syllabic structure of “Yoruba” also does.
.
.
.
Are you afraid of something?? If not then engage all the above.

I have taken “àgbo” to energize.

cc: emperorshaokahn

TAO11:
[s] Strategy to educate you?? I could swear you’re leaving my posts more informed than you came in even though your will-full self-inflicted ignorance is apparent.

He demolishes it because he had reference to Yoruba in his writing at about two centuries before the word appeared in Hausa writings.

And your authorities all seem to agree that it isn’t an Hausa/Fulani word.

For God sake it has absolutely no meaning in Hausa language or Fulfude.

I am not sure where or who you got the idea from that he was responsible for giving the name. Certainly not from me. You seem to be imagining too much.

Writing about Yoruba people is not one and the same thing as coining their name.

You’re being willfully repetitive and ignorant. At no point did I mention that Crowther wrote a book or something else about the etymological origin of the name.

What I have repeatedly and clearly cited from Crowther is:

(a) His years of struggle ensuring that the name extends from the Oyo subgroup to all the other sub-groups.

My valid logical deduction from this is that a Yoruba man, Bishop, and Linguist could not possibly logically have rooted for an Hausa/Fulani name’s adoption by his people as their generic name. Such contrary thinking leads to absurdity.

(b) His clear statement that “Yarri.ba” and “Yaru.ba” are simply Hausa pronunciations.

To continue to insist that “Yoruba” is from indigenous Hausa/Fulani language (even in the light of this clear statement of S. Crowther) is tantamount to arguing that: English people gave you an indigenous English name, but they themselves always struggle with how to pronounce it, and that it took an Edo man to correct them back to what the indigenous English name should really be. Another absurd conclusion here.

I am glad you finally admitted that your two claims of Fulani and Hausa origins are eventually false. Let’s hope you won’t revert to any of this falsehood forever. You see why it is good to attend my classes??

Now, you have made a claim that the name is of some foreign origin any way. Okay?? Can we see the proof for this very fresh claim??

I have repeatedly pointed you to “Oyo r’Oba” as stated by Farouk Martins in one of his publications on Race and History.

Are you still interested in seeing ensuring that I didn’t make this up?? And do you still maintain that seeing one such example will shut you up?? I hope to hear from you on this!

Not to suit my narrative but because we are dealing with a word that must have emerged sometimes before the 1600s — recall that Ahmed Baba’s reference was in 1613.

Having this in mind, attempt must me made to account for the evolution of words especially as it is observable that the word for is has not remained constant even in the space of just 170 years — since the 1850s.

In that case, an attempt to unravel the pre-1600s equivalent would require collateral linguistic evidence from any Yoruba dialect that has remained relatively most stable in comparison to others. This idea rests on the linguistic principle that dialects are more homogenous the farther back in time since they all emerged originally from one proto-Yoruba.

The Ijebu/Itsekiri axis clearly stands out as being relatively more stable and removed from the center-stage dialect, hence my recourse to the Ijebu word for “is” (i.e. “ri” ) as a pointer to the proto-Yoruba word for “is”.

Yes, I know you may struggle a bit to grasp the technicalities here, but you can’t allow your ignorance imply to you that I’m being arbitrary.

Again, you’re clearly assuming too much. Names of a sub-group, etc. do not have to come from one person.

Nobody agreed with you that the case with the Bini people is the exemplar that must be found everywhere else.

Even the word “Benin” doesn’t go back to one person — we just say the Portuguese.

Likewise, the phrase “Oyo is the King” (you seem to be strategically leaving out the “the” here) is one example of how the Oyo-subgroup prides itself amongst the other Yoruba subgroups.

This agrees perfectly with historical evidence for the following reason:

(i) The name “Yoruba” began in exclusive reference to the “Oyo” people.

(ii) Following the decline of Ife as a military and commercial power in circa 1450 (leaving it only with spiritual primacy), the Oyo-subgroup gradually rose to prominence among all the Yoruba-subgroups.

I am not sure what the basis for this statement is. Talking of shifting the goal post.

Listen up lad and pay particular attention to the bolded:

If there is no early original account — prior to his writing — which refutes his narrative ([]especially since his agrees with Yoruba practice, agrees with historical evidence as I have just shown, and also agrees with the syllabic structure of the word “Yoruba” itself) then his narrative remains valid as is[/s].

Another trash as usual...

If Farouk Martin was not even present up till 1900s then how is his presumptuous "analysis" even correct when there were not even records of it...

Post any historical work that predates 1900 where it was mentioned that Oyo r'oba was converted to Yoruba

Abt the Crowther book ...read this excerpt again from Farooq Kperogi
They
self-identify as “Yoruba” precisely because returnee slaves of Yoruba descent chose the name, popularised it, and encouraged people in the region to embrace it.....
Remind me again
.. wasn't Crowther a returnee slave

If Crowther knew the origin, obviously he'll have written abt it...Abi u think say he nor wan waste space

TAO11:
Lol.

(1) The historical fact that Oyo rose to become the King among all the subgroups does.

(2) The historical fact that the name ”Yoruba” applied originally and exclusively to the Oyo subgroup does.

(3) The historical fact that nothing in earlier written original works contradicts this narrative does.

(4) And the linguistic fact that the phrase itself (among all the foregoing facts) agrees with the syllabic structure of “Yoruba” also does.
.
.
.
Are you afraid of something?? If not then engage all the above.

Historical fact that can't be found in the records...

Quite historic

Etinosa1234:
Historical fact that can't be found in the records...

Quite historic

All the historical facts that I have stated here is well established and known to almost everyone that knows a single thing about Yoruba history. Yo

You seem to have just exposed your full-blown ignorance ignorance in Yoruba history. Anyways, I will repeat them again so you can be sure you aren’t dreaming:

(1) The historical fact that Oyo rose to become the King among all the subgroups does.

(2) The historical fact that the name ”Yoruba” applied originally and exclusively to the Oyo subgroup does.

(3) The historical fact that nothing in earlier written original works contradicts this narrative does.

(4) And the linguistic fact that the phrase itself (among all the foregoing facts) agrees with the syllabic structure of “Yoruba” also does.
.
.
.
Are you afraid of something?? If not then engage all the above.

TAO11:
All the historical facts that I have stated here is well established and known to almost everyone that knows a single thing about Yoruba history. Yo

You seem to have just exposed your full-blown ignorance ignorance in Yoruba history. Anyways, I will repeat them again so you can be sure you aren’t dreaming:

No references .... No records of the change of words ..

No references to any Oyi r'oba being indigenous

Stop crying...I still won't take u serious

Etinosa1234:
Another trash as usual...

If Farouk Martin was not even present up till 1900s then how is his presumptuous "analysis" even correct when there were not even records of it...

Post any historical work that predates 1900 where it was mentioned that Oyo r'oba was converted to Yoruba

Abt the Crowther book ...read this excerpt again from Farooq Kperogi
They
self-identify as “Yoruba” precisely because returnee slaves of Yoruba descent chose the name, popularised it, and encouraged people in the region to embrace it.....
Remind me again
.. wasn't Crowther a returnee slave

If Crowther knew the origin, obviously he'll have written abt it...Abi u think say he nor wan waste space

How is Farouk Martins’ post-1900s statement about a pre-1600 event different from a pre-1900s statement about the pre-1600 event??

No difference except in the fact that nothing in earlier original writings contradicts his deduction and the fact that:

(1) The historical fact that Oyo rose to become the King among all the subgroups does.

(2) The historical fact that the name ”Yoruba” applied originally and exclusively to the Oyo subgroup does.

(3) The historical fact that nothing in earlier written original works contradicts this narrative does.

(4) And the linguistic fact that the phrase itself (among all the foregoing facts) agrees with the syllabic structure of “Yoruba” also does.
.
.
.
Are you afraid of something?? If not then engage all the above.

TAO11:
How is Farouk Martins 1900s statement about a pre-1600 event different from an 1800s statement about the pre-1600 event??

No difference except in the fact that nothing in earlier original writings contradicts his deduction and the fact that:

(1) The historical fact that Oyo rose to become the King among all the subgroups does.

(2) The historical fact that the name ”Yoruba” applied originally and exclusively to the Oyo subgroup does.

(3) The historical fact that nothing in earlier written original works contradicts this narrative does.

(4) And the linguistic fact that the phrase itself (among all the foregoing facts) agrees with the syllabic structure of “Yoruba” also does.
.
.
.
Are you afraid of something?? If not then engage all the above.

Another trash as usual...

If Farouk Martin was not even present up till 1900s then how is his presumptuous "analysis" even correct when there were not even records of the change and update of the language

Post any historical work that predates 1900 where it was mentioned that Oyo r'oba was converted to Yoruba

Abt the Crowther book ...read this excerpt again from Farooq Kperogi
They
self-identify as “Yoruba” precisely because returnee slaves of Yoruba descent chose the name, popularised it, and encouraged people in the region to embrace it.....
Remind me again
.. wasn't Crowther a returnee slave

If Crowther knew the origin, obviously he'll have written abt it...Abi u think say he nor wan waste space