₦airaland Forum

DappaD:
Okay.


This is just one of the rudimentary teachings.
Even when JWs time and time again, explain carefully you refused to get it. It is because y'all don't get this basic teaching—that most of you don't grasp that humans and spirit creatures are totally different.

A man, is an earthly creature made from the dust of the ground. (Genesis 2:7)
It is only when the impersonal breath of life(spirit) is in that fleshly body made from dust—that the man is said to be a living soul or living being.
When the human being dies, this spirit/breath goes out(Psalm 146:4) and the body(man) returns to the dust of the ground(Genesis 3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7)
Therefore the person can no longer have thoughts and feelings—Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 since the breath of life that's activating the body has been removed.

What makes your Television, a television
Isn't it only when electricity plays its role and then displays videos on your screen?
That's exactly the same with human beings. A man(created from dust) cannot be a living being/soul without the breath of life(spirit/lifeforce)



We've gone through this countless times, shade\yinka.
Paul was inspired to write that there are heavenly BODIES and that there are earthly BODIES—1Corinthians 15:40
Jehovah God is a Spirit. (John 4:24, 2Corinthians 3:17). Jesus Christ(Michael the archangel) and the rest of the angels(seraphs, cherubs etc) are all spirit creatures like their heavenly Father.(Psalm 104:4)
The BODY they possess is different from the earthly bodies.
The 144,000 anointed Christians are bought from amongst mankind and sealed(Revelation 14:1,4)
When their physical/natural/weak/fleshly body dies, their lifeforce is entrusted into God's hands(Ecclesiates 12:7) just as Jesus entrusted his into God's hands(Luke 23:46)
The BODIES they possess after the first resurrection is an indestructible, incorruptible, immortal spiritual BODY(1Corinthians 15:42-44,53-54), then their life-force is restored so that they can have their former memories because that's the essence of them going to heaven in the first place. They have been tested in all respects so they know what humans go through and they can sympathize with their weaknesses. (Hebrews 4:15)
Jehovah is such a loving God that he made that wonderful provision because if He entrusted the ruling and judging matters into the hands of the angels who have existed for aeons, they wouldn't show the needed sympathy for humans since they don't know what's it like being one.
That's the real reason why a select few will be going to heaven to rule over the earth as kings, priests and judges alongside Jesus Christ who also knows what it's like being human! (Matthew 19:28, Romans 8:16-17, 1Corinthians 6:2, 2Timothy 2:12, Revelation 1:6, 5:9-10, 7:4-8, 14:1,4, 20:4,6)


Okay.

Thanks for your comprehensive answers even though you seem to lump the answers to the three questions together.

You seem to be treating the Life Force as if it is LIVING and is not just a Life Force BUT Life itself. Why?
If a totally New body is fashioned for the dead person, he can only remain the same person if the Life Force is the REAL person and the bodies just like clothing. That is, a person Life Force can put on a Physical body or a Spiritual Body such that the person's life force represent his real identity.
What do you think?

Secondly, you insinuate that the Life Force of a person has been tested in all ramifications and thus will remember and sympathize with humans. Doesn't this make the Life force conscious and living (alive) as different from being just a Life giving FORCE?

Using the analogy of the electric power in a TV: the electricity is impasional. All it does is to energize the TV to work according to its design (memory, logic, display, sound, buttons etc) are all functions of the TV not the electricity. The electricity carries no information nor logic nor function except to supply energy required for the box to function. Electricity doesn't care whether it is powering a TV or a Laptop or a Radio. It is impasional!
Shouldn't that be the proper and true state of the Life Force?

Although, I still wish that you answer each question individually.
1. Since they are BODILESS, what part of their former existence resurrected?
2. Since they are BODILESS, how do they remember their former existence and identity (their brains have rot away at death)?
3. If indeed the 144,000 could exist without their bodies, does that not invalidate your arguments that a human being cannot be conscious without his body? (Please, don't say that it's a special case of Resurrection)

Thank you

AkinwaleJJ:
Humans are living souls, there is nothing like body, soul and spirit, we have the same life form like all other earthly creatures, the only difference is we have freewill unlike other creatures living on instinct, at death humans are equal to dead flies {Eccl 3:19} it's the memories that makes God plan for a come back for humans and it's either back as humans in case of those who will live forever on earth or spirits (angels) in case of those to rule with Jesus in heaven!

I'm sorry that you seem not to understand where I am coming from.

If we have a resurrection, something of the past life MUST come back to life. Since the Life Force is just a FORCE that gives life to the body, the Life Force itself should not have its own identity else it will be LIVING!

I hope I am not misunderstanding you: is the Life Force memory?

Can you please help me answer each of these three questions distinctively?

1. Since they are BODILESS, what part of their former existence resurrected?
2. Since they are BODILESS, how do they remember their former existence and identity (their brains have rot away at death)?
3. If indeed the 144,000 could exist without their bodies, does that not invalidate your arguments that a human being cannot be conscious without his body? (Please, don't say that it's a special case of Resurrection)

Thanks in anticipation!

Janosky:
I responded to your post to Shadeyinka.
How will I have known you shared this fact in your other post?

It's very clear that there are still Scriptural truth we mutually agree on.
It's well MuttleyLaff.
Shalom

You misunderstood, why I tabled the post alongside with shadeyinka's, lmso.

shadeyinka:
Thanks for your comprehensive answers even though you seem to lump the answers to the three questions together.

You seem to be treating the Life Force as if it is LIVING and is not just a Life Force BUT Life itself. Why?
If a totally New body is fashioned for the dead person, he can only remain the same person if the Life Force is the REAL person and the bodies just like clothing. That is, a person Life Force can put on a Physical body or a Spiritual Body such that the person's life force represent his real identity.
What do you think?

Secondly, you insinuate that the Life Force of a person has been tested in all ramifications and thus will remember and sympathize with humans. Doesn't this make the Life force conscious and living (alive) as different from being just a Life giving FORCE?

Using the analogy of the electric power in a TV: the electricity is impasional. All it does is to energize the TV to work according to its design (memory, logic, display, sound, buttons etc) are all functions of the TV not the electricity. The electricity carries no information nor logic nor function except to supply energy required for the box to function. Electricity doesn't care whether it is powering a TV or a Laptop or a Radio. It is impasional!
Shouldn't that be the proper and true state of the Life Force?

Although, I still wish that you answer each question individually.
1. Since they are BODILESS, what part of their former existence resurrected?
2. Since they are BODILESS, how do they remember their former existence and identity (their brains have rot away at death)?
3. If indeed the 144,000 could exist without their bodies, does that not invalidate your arguments that a human being cannot be conscious without his body? (Please, don't say that it's a special case of Resurrection)

Thank you

Lol. When you first explain how electricity became a person then we can see where to go somewhere from there.
If you don't know, humble yourself and learn.
Calm down and go through my post carefully, not in a rushed manner as you just did.
I'm not going to repeat myself.

MaxInDHouse:
Remember JWs have our own way of responding to questions. To me your three questions are but one "If you JWs say there is no way people can reason or remember anything without their brains, how will resurrected humans going to heaven know or remember what they stand for without their human brains?"
So your three questions stem from the same thought!

Since I wasn't planning on disputing your views or arguing with your points, I wish you answered the questions separately.

1. Since they are BODILESS, what part of their former existence resurrected?
2. Since they are BODILESS, how do they remember their former existence and identity (their brains have rot away at death)?
3. If indeed the 144,000 could exist without their bodies, does that not invalidate your arguments that a human being cannot be conscious without his body? (Please, don't say that it's a special case of Resurrection)

Please, oblige me!

shadeyinka:
I'm sorry that you seem not to understand where I am coming from.

If we have a resurrection, something of the past life MUST come back to life. Since the Life Force is just a FORCE that gives life to the body, the Life Force itself should not have its own identity else it will be LIVING!

I hope I am not misunderstanding you: is the Life Force memory?

Can you please help me answer each of these three questions distinctively?

1. Since they are BODILESS, what part of their former existence resurrected?
2. Since they are BODILESS, how do they remember their former existence and identity (their brains have rot away at death)?
3. If indeed the 144,000 could exist without their bodies, does that not invalidate your arguments that a human being cannot be conscious without his body? (Please, don't say that it's a special case of Resurrection)

Thanks in anticipation!

Your question is just one..


Jehovah does not have to reassemble a person’s former body in order to resurrect him. That is shown by God’s resurrecting anointed Christians to heavenly life. Like Jesus, who was “made alive in the spirit,” anointed Christians are resurrected as the same person but with a spiritual body. No part of their former physical body accompanies them to heaven.—1 Pet. 3:18; 1 Cor. 15:42-53; 1 John 3:2.

Check those verses...excerpted..

DappaD:
Lol. When you first explain how electricity became a person then we can see where to go somewhere from there.
If you don't know, humble yourself and learn.
Calm down and go through my post carefully, not in a rushed manner as you just did.
I'm not going to repeat myself.

I'm sorry!
Truthfully, I can't place your definite answer for the three questions. How can I learn when you aren't forthcoming with edifying responses!?

1. Since they are BODILESS, what part of their former existence resurrected?
2. Since they are BODILESS, how do they remember their former existence and identity (their brains have rot away at death)?
3. If indeed the 144,000 could exist without their bodies, does that not invalidate your arguments that a human being cannot be conscious without his body? (Please, don't say that it's a special case of Resurrection)

haddeylium:
Your question is just one..


Jehovah does not have to reassemble a person’s former body in order to resurrect him. That is shown by God’s resurrecting anointed Christians to heavenly life. Like Jesus, who was “made alive in the spirit,” anointed Christians are resurrected as the same person but with a spiritual body. No part of their former physical body accompanies them to heaven.—1 Pet. 3:18; 1 Cor. 15:42-53; 1 John 3:2.

Check those verses...excerpted..

Thank you for answering Question 1. You are saying that NO part of their former existence become resurrected.
Is this correct?

If the above is correct, how about Questions 2 and 3

2. Since they are BODILESS, how do they remember their former existence and identity (their brains have rot away at death)?
3. If indeed the 144,000 could exist without their bodies, does that not invalidate your arguments that a human being cannot be conscious without his body? (Please, don't say that it's a special case of Resurrection)

haddeylium:
Your question is just one..


Jehovah does not have to reassemble a person’s former body in order to resurrect him. That is shown by God’s resurrecting anointed Christians to heavenly life. Like Jesus, who was “made alive in the spirit,” anointed Christians are resurrected as the same person but with a spiritual body. No part of their former physical body accompanies them to heaven.—1 Pet. 3:18; 1 Cor. 15:42-53; 1 John 3:2.

Check those verses...excerpted..

Thank you for answering Question 1. You are saying that NO part of their former existence become resurrected.
Is this correct?

If the above is correct, how about Questions 2 and 3?

2. Since they are BODILESS, how do they remember their former existence and identity (their brains have rot away at death)?
3. If indeed the 144,000 could exist without their bodies, does that not invalidate your arguments that a human being cannot be conscious without his body? (Please, don't say that it's a special case of Resurrection)

MaxInDHouse:
You can't understand our teachings if you're not ready to learn from those sent to teach you one on one. That's why we must study our publications with you before you can understand what the faithful and discreet slave is dishing out!
"They will become like angels" says Jesus the son of God {Luke 20:34-36} so what JWs are saying is this humans going to start a new life in heaven will receive honour more than angels because what Satan and the demons so much desire which made them rebelled against God (ruling lesser beings i.e humans) these 144,000 have earned it from God through their faith in the blood of Jesus Christ! Revelations 12:11

So they earned for themselves higher position than the angels but according to Jesus they will also become angels but their level is higher, just as Michael the archangel has higher position than the rest of the angels yet he himself still remains angel! Jude 9

The only angel having authority higher than this new angels is Michael and that's because he is the one who volunteered himself to serve as the sacrificial lamb slaughtered to redeem the 144,000 to become angels and occupy the places the fallen angels were driven from, for your information that's what Jesus meant when he said "i am going to prepare a place for you" {John 14:1-4} God made heavens and everything there was perfect so it's those driven away from their that gave those going there the opportunity to be there. That's what Paul meant when he said "we will judge angels" 1Corinthians 6:3
So Watchtower taught us that the judges will surely be higher in position than the judged!

You won't accept even when people understand the GB teachings and show you evidence of how well they understand it paapaa. You will have to DEFEND the GB even when they have long turned their backs against what you are DEFENDING. You should understand better.

Watchtower taught us and my pastor say or my pastorpreneur say or Governing Body taught us.....,........na same same ............

Blabbermouth:
My heart is inditing a good matter; yea, I speak of excellent things, my tongue is as the pen of a ready writer.
Before proceeding to reasoning from the scripture by the spirit of truth, i think there is need for a good laugh first.
Not adding a single word and not taking a single word away, here is something from a certified jw article from their org:

"A few humans have the hope of being ressurected to life in heaven (the heavenly ressurection haddeylium talked about). Their number is small - 144,000 in all. However, these 144,000 are quite distinct from those creatures commonly called angels."
Here is another one from another certified JW article ftrom their org:
"Misconception: People become angels when they die
Fact: Angels are a separate creation of God, not ressurected humans. (Colossians 1:16) People who are raised to life in heaven receive the gift of immortal life from God. (1 Corinthians 15:53, 54) They will have a status higher than the angels. - 1 Corinthians 6:3"

haddeylium and Maxindhouse, your organization has a different view from yours - they believe the heavenly ressurected ones are going to be higher beings than angels, they believe the heavenly resurrected will not resurrect as an angel but as an higher being. What is the dog going to do now? Will you stay loyal to your masters and admit that believing the heavenly ressurected will become angels is false? Are you going to be egoistic, disown your governing bodies?
If you are taking your answers back, declare! if you have the wisdom of God in you - What kind of being will the heavenly ressurected become?
Declare if you have the wisdom of God in you - What kind of being has the Lord of the heavenly ressurected become?
haddeylium, i did warn you - in the quest for truth you will be needing a lot of wisdom, let's see the one you have - that of mere men or of God
Either you are wrong or your organization is wrong, it's a win-win situation for the servant to truth.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
1. The being that is going to sit on the throne of David forever cannot be an angel!
For God himself has sworn
Acts 2:30 - "Therefore (David) being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne
Jeremiah 33:17 -"For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel'

Hey beloved, Jesus the Christ never sat on the throne of David in his first coming, so there is no room for peddling the falsehood that the verse was talking about Jesus first coming.
O ye that proclaim Jesus an angelic creature, do show whose wisdom is in you - that of the Antichrist or of God. Does an angel have flesh? How then can an angelic creature sit on the throne of David? Declare if you have wisdom in you - Which creature will sit on the throne of the house of Israel forever.
If Christ Jesus resurrected remained an angelic creature forever, he will never be the one to sit on that throne.

2. The world to come is not subjected to any angelic creature or creatures
Hebrews 2:5 - "For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak"
The Lord of the earth cannot be an angelic creature neither can the heavenly resurrected be angels. If the supposed lord of the earth is an angelic creature, the scripture said the world is not given to angels, if he remains an angel, the world to come will never be subjected to him.
The scripture said we are heirs of God, and Joint heirs with Christ, if we (who the world to come is subjected to) become angels, then the scripture is not fulfilled and God is a liar. God forbid!
If Christ resurrected as an angelic creature, he will never inherit the promise and God will be a liar.

3. The heavenly resurrected (at least) will become greater than every angelic creature. If Christ remain an angelic creature, then the least of the heavenly resurrected ones will be greater than Christ
For the psalmist testified of this, saying
Psalms 8:4-7
What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5. For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6. Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet
For the promise and the good news above was not for any angel but for man (generally) and the last Adam (specifically), if the ones to receive this promise then become angels - is salvation not a joke?

There are more bullets to shoot but ye are dull of hearing, for if thou art not convicted in the plain words of God, how shall thou then understand the hard meat?

Declare if you have the wisdom of God in you - What kind of being did Christ Jesus ressurect as?
Gird up thy loins and answer me, ye that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge - did God subject the new world to angels or to man?
Declare if you have the wisdom of God in you - Does our high priest abide as an angelic creature forever?

Truth has caught up with falsehood, no tongue that speaketh in error shall be able to gainsay.

Grace and truth.
cc: Maxindhouse, Janosky, AkinwaleJJ, shadeyinka, DappaD, MuttleyLaff, Ken4Christ, Emusan, KNOWMORE56, Dtruthspeaker

They love using source materials of others to prove their points whenever they are in discussion even going out of their way to use other Bibles apart from NWT but when same tactics is applied by using their own very materials to prove a point, it becomes.........

You can't understand our teachings if you're not ready to learn from those sent to teach you one on one.

shadeyinka:
Thank you for answering Question 1. You are saying that NO part of their former existence become resurrected.
Is this correct?

If the above is correct, how about Questions 2 and 3?

2. Since they are BODILESS, how do they remember their former existence and identity (their brains have rot away at death)?
3. If indeed the 144,000 could exist without their bodies, does that not invalidate your arguments that a human being cannot be conscious without his body? (Please, don't say that it's a special case of Resurrection)

if I get what you mean..


Whether someone has earthly or heavenly resurrection hope. The same thing will happen to their physical body now. The body, bones , brains will rot.

But God with his power will remember each one and bring them back to life with their memories .
Those that will inherit the paradise with physical body and those with heavenly hope with spiritual body.
Jehovah created everything, so he has the power to bring all faithful ones back to life.

shalom

777isaac:
Thank you for this scriptural proof. Jesus rose with physical body, the same way we shall all rise from death. 1 Corinthians 15:20-55. However this physical body is a glorified one, better than what was dead. Just like a seed planted brings forth a more better and beautiful harvest.

What are the differences between physical body, glorious body, and spirital bodies

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s8/images/ObamaMuttley.gif[/img]
What about it?
Transfiguration is about the glory, glory of God, that is, lmso and its the same way that happened to Moshe aka Moses that required him to put on a veil or mask to cover his face (i.e. Exodus 34:29, 33-35)

Meaning all spirits have ability to transfigure to a 'glory'?

haddeylium:
if I get what you mean..


Whether someone has earthly or heavenly resurrection hope. The same thing will happen to their physical body now. The body, bones , brains will rot.

But God with his power will remember each one and bring them back to life with their memories .
Those that will inherit the paradise with physical body and those with heavenly hope with spiritual body.
Jehovah created everything, so he has the power to bring all faithful ones back to life.

shalom

Is it correct for me to l assume that this answer above is for question 2?

If I get you correctly, what you are saying is that God will Create a NEW being and fill it up with the memories of the dead person. Is this your correct opinion?
Please check your quote for the @yellow highlight: What is the "them" that will be brought back to life?

If this is correct, would this truely be a resurrection or an imposition? The way I understand what you've said is that like a computer, God backs up the memory of an old computer and then transfer the cloned memory on a new computer. Wouldn't a resurrection of my old computer be more or less a restoration of my old computer probably with a higher RAM memory, newer casings, updated software's etc?

But then, that was why I asked if the LIFE FORCE is simply the memory of the dead person. Is the Life Force the same as the Memory of the dead?


Thank you for doing justice to Questions 1 and 2. However, even though I'll like you to complete question 2 by clarifying the questions above, I also don't want you to answer question 3 in the light of your answer in 1 and 2


3. If indeed the 144,000 could exist without their bodies, does that not invalidate your arguments that a human being cannot be conscious without his body? (Please, don't say that it's a special case of Resurrection)

achorladey:
You won't accept even when people understand the GB teachings and show you evidence of how well they understand it paapaa. You will have to DEFEND the GB even when they have long turned their backs against what you are DEFENDING. You should understand better.

Watchtower taught us and my pastor say or my pastorpreneur say or Governing Body taught us.....,........na same same ............

That's the difference nah!

We are the students taught by the GB and we are proud to say it even when you and your folks are shy of mentioning your own teachers.
That's why we keep saying "present a better performing group than Jehovah's Witnesses"
Failure to do that means we will stick to the teachings of the one and only organization that's producing the FRUIT we can boast of anytime anywhere and before anybody!

MightySparrow:
Meaning all spirits have ability to transfigure to a 'glory'?

Affirmative with a capital, YES, every spirits, whether terrestrial or extra-terrestrial aka celestial have the ability to transfigure to show varying extent or degrees of glory, lmso.

With all due respect, please explain to the best of your knowledge and understanding all you've learned that glory is. I am talking of the glory of God here, of course. What is glory, what is the glory of God?

MuttleyLaff:
Affirmative with a capital, YES, every spirits, whether terrestrial or extra-terrestrial aka celestial have the ability to transfigure to show varying extent or degrees of glory, lmso.

With all due respect, please explain to the best of your knowledge and understanding all you've learned that glory is. I am talking of the glory of God here, of course. What is glory, what is the glory of God?

are you a spirtist? do you do astra travel?

shadeyinka:
Is it correct for me to l assume that this answer above is for question 2?

If I get you correctly, what you are saying is that God will Create a NEW being and fill it up with the memories of the dead person. Is this your correct opinion?

If this is correct, would this truely be a resurrection or an imposition? The way I understand what you've said is that like a computer, God backs up the memory of an old computer and then transfer the cloned memory on a new computer. Wouldn't a resurrection of my old computer be more or less a restoration of my old computer probably with a higher RAM memory, newer casings, updated software's etc?

But then, that was why I asked if the LIFE FORCE is simply the memory of the dead person. Is the Life Force the same as the Memory of the dead?


Thank you for doing justice to Questions 1 and 2. However, even though I'll like you to complete question 2 by clarifying the questions above, I also don't want you to answer question 3 in the light of your answer in 1 and 2


3. If indeed the 144,000 could exist without their bodies, does that not invalidate your arguments that a human being cannot be conscious without his body? (Please, don't say that it's a special case of Resurrection)

You've gotten our stand on the issue!

YES!

God will create new forms of life and infuse the memories of his friends who are sleeping in death.
The idea that humans are unconscious without their bodies apply to the situation Adam brought upon us "DEATH" but Jehovah can conquer death {Isaiah 25:8} that's why he store the memories of his own friends somewhere safe so that when all what Adamic sin brought upon us has been cancelled, Jehovah will create a new form of life just as he did when he created an embryo in the womb of Mary which was the person who has been mighty spirit being all his life in heaven before then!

MightySparrow:
are you a spirtist?
do you do astra travel?

[img]https://s1/images/BlackFace.jpg[/img]

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MuttleyLaff:
... The thing is, each person, should know what their limits are, everyone should know what for them, is off limit and/or no go areas. I usually say, if you pry and stare into darkness, be mindful that the darkness too, might just, turn round and stare back at you. God help the one, who hasnt a light to stand up to and defy the darkness with, or if there's no one around to hand over a torchlight or candle, to help with and pronto get out of the frigging black abyss.

No, I am not a spiritist, and that's solely because my faith doesnt permit me to be such or be one. I dont do astral travel either but I do recall that I almost got drawn into self induced astra travel after messing around with literature on the subject I found in my Dad's library, but my good sense prevailed and so I didnt venture in the little known water, lmso

The above attached comment of mine from another thread is reproduced as a fyi consumption

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s1/images/BlackFace.jpg[/img]

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No, I am not a spiritist, and that's solely because my faith doesnt permit me to be such or be one. I dont do astral travel either but I do recall that I almost got drawn into self induced astra travel after messing around with literature on the subject I found in my Dad's library, but my good sense prevailed and so I didnt venture in the little known water, lmso

The above attached comment of mine from another thread is reproduced as a fyi consumption

OK, if spirits don't recognize themselves, how come, the demons in the mad man of Gadara recognized Jesus cum angel Gabriel, Michael and Prince of Persia?

MightySparrow:
OK, if spirits don't recognize themselves, how come, the demons in the mad man of Gadara recognized Jesus cum angel Gabriel, Michael and Prince of Persia?

I never anywhere typed that spirits don't recognize themselves

shadeyinka:
I'm sorry that you seem not to understand where I am coming from.

If we have a resurrection, something of the past life MUST come back to life. Since the Life Force is just a FORCE that gives life to the body, the Life Force itself should not have its own identity else it will be LIVING!

I hope I am not misunderstanding you: is the Life Force memory?

Can you please help me answer each of these three questions distinctively?

1. Since they are BODILESS, what part of their former existence resurrected?
2. Since they are BODILESS, how do they remember their former existence and identity (their brains have rot away at death)?
3. If indeed the 144,000 could exist without their bodies, does that not invalidate your arguments that a human being cannot be conscious without his body? (Please, don't say that it's a special case of Resurrection)

Thanks in anticipation!

You're asking the same question but in three different phrases.
Perhaps this explanation will meet your quest.
Jesus said we should fear the one who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna [Matt 10:28] the body will surely decay after death but the soul here means the personality.
Humans can only destroy the body and end the existence of their fellow man but the sweet memories of personality will be kept in God's memory [Genesis 4:10] God will form new body as he did with Adam and now restore the sweet memory of the one he loves.
But there is no memories of God's enemies, they're gone forever!

achorladey:
They love using source materials of others to prove their points whenever they are in discussion even going out of their way to use other Bibles apart from NWT but when same tactics is applied by using their own very materials to prove a point, it becomes.........

You can't understand our teachings if you're not ready to learn from those sent to teach you one on one.

That's why we keep asking to know the religious group each person belongs so as to ascribe such comment to all members of that group but it's baffling when each of you have his/her own opinion contradicting one another even when you come from (taught by) the same religion.
Well Jehovah's Witnesses are just searching for individuals who wants to have the same mindset with his/her fellow believers {Matthew 10:6} when we notice you detest oneness in thought, we'll excuse ourselves and switch to the next door! Matthew 10:11-13

Blabbermouth is on another forced sabbatical.
#He-will-be-back

By the way, according to JW, we are just files in a memory card.
#Comedians

AkinwaleJJ:
You're asking the same question but in three different phrases.
Perhaps this explanation will meet your quest.
Jesus said we should fear the one who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna [Matt 10:28] the body will surely decay after death but the soul here means the personality.
Humans can only destroy the body and end the existence of their fellow man but the sweet memories of personality will be kept in God's memory [Genesis 4:10] God will form new body as he did with Adam and now restore the sweet memory of the one he loves.
But there is no memories of God's enemies, they're gone forever!

Since you know that we don't share the same ideology, it would have been proper to answer each question separately and then we can come to a good understanding. Let me summarise what I've gleaned

1. Since they are BODILESS, what part of their former existence resurrected?
Your Response:
No part of their former existence comes back to life.
God creates a new being and fills it with the memories of the dead personality
I hope I am correct?

Am I also correct that you believe that a man's spirit is just his memories?

2. Since they are BODILESS, how do they remember their former existence and identity (their brains have rot away at death)?
Your Response:
They do not need a brain to have their memories as God will keep their memories for transplant into a new created being.
I hope I am correct?


You have not answered question 3 below.

3. If indeed the 144,000 could exist without their bodies, does that not invalidate your arguments that a human being cannot be conscious without his body? (Please, don't say that it's a special case of Resurrection)

MaxInDHouse:
You've gotten our stand on the issue!

YES!

God will create new forms of life and infuse the memories of his friends who are sleeping in death.
The idea that humans are unconscious without their bodies apply to the situation Adam brought upon us "DEATH" but Jehovah can conquer death {Isaiah 25:8} that's why he store the memories of his own friends somewhere safe so that when all what Adamic sin brought upon us has been cancelled, Jehovah will create a new form of life just as he did when he created an embryo in the womb of Mary which was the person who has been mighty spirit being all his life in heaven before then!

Thank you for your response so far. I am just trying to understand your views. However,
1. Wouldn't a resurrection of my old computer be more or less a restoration of my old computer probably with a higher RAM memory, newer casings, updated software's etc?

2. Is the Life Force the same as the Memory of the dead?
Or is a man's spirit his memory?

Please does this summarise your position for question 1 and 2?

1. Since they are BODILESS, what part of their former existence resurrected?
Your Response:
No part of their former existence comes back to life.
God creates a new being and fills it with the memories of the dead personality
I hope I am correct?

Am I also correct that you believe that a man's spirit is just his memories?

2. Since they are BODILESS, how do they remember their former existence and identity (their brains have rot away at death)?
Your Response:
They do not need a brain to have their memories as God will keep their memories for transplant into a new created being.
I hope I am correct?

Finally, you haven't answered question 3
3. If indeed the 144,000 could exist without their bodies, does that not invalidate your arguments that a human being cannot be conscious without his body? (Please, don't say that it's a special case of Resurrection)

MaxInDHouse:
That's why we keep asking to know the religious group each person belongs so as to ascribe such comment to all members of that group but it's baffling when each of you have his/her own opinion contradicting one another even when you come from (taught by) the same religion.
Well Jehovah's Witnesses are just searching for individuals who wants to have the same mindset with his/her fellow believers {Matthew 10:6} when we notice you detest oneness in thought, we'll excuse ourselves and switch to the next door! Matthew 10:11-13

If you like ask for their group, if you like don't ask na your palaver to sort. What is clear is the below


You can't understand our teachings if you're not ready to learn from those sent to teach you one on one.


When your publications are scrutinized and laid bare before you, what follows is the above in order to save face.

I gave you the below image the other day rather than answer you will rather revert to the bolded above

What religion are you? You go dodge again.......

A. Muslim

B. Christian (the name that is cursed and bastardized no longer has divine inspiration ) ........... they contradict one another

shadeyinka:
Thank you for your response so far. I am just trying to understand your views. However,
1. Wouldn't a resurrection of my old computer be more or less a restoration of my old computer probably with a higher RAM memory, newer casings, updated software's etc?

2. Is the Life Force the same as the Memory of the dead?
Or is a man's spirit his memory?

Please does this summarise your position for question 1 and 2?

1. Since they are BODILESS, what part of their former existence resurrected?
Your Response:
No part of their former existence comes back to life.
God creates a new being and fills it with the memories of the dead personality
I hope I am correct?

Am I also correct that you believe that a man's spirit is just his memories?

2. Since they are BODILESS, how do they remember their former existence and identity (their brains have rot away at death)?
Your Response:
They do not need a brain to have their memories as God will keep their memories for transplant into a new created being.
I hope I am correct?

Finally, you haven't answered question 3
3. If indeed the 144,000 could exist without their bodies, does that not invalidate your arguments that a human being cannot be conscious without his body? (Please, don't say that it's a special case of Resurrection)

The spirit is just the force or energy actuating the body, in layman's terms we can say breath it's the same type of force that works in all forms of life whether humans, animals, insects or microorganism. The one having the power to stop and also restore this force is God!
But if you want to define what God forms new body for, it's better to say "character" you'll have watched soap operas where an individual playing a certain character decides to opt out of the production, so if this character is very important or a major character in the movie then another individual will take up the character.
So God store the character of Abel in his memory during resurrection Abel comes to life with a new body just as the one that was killed by Cain and those who knew Abel will recognize him but all the wounds will not be again. The same applies to all other humans, those born blind, lame, deaf, dumb, hunchback and so on will be recognized by their face and attitude but the corruptible bodies will not come u with them.

As for those going to rule with Jesus in heaven (144,000) they're never going to return to flesh again, their own form of life will be spirit forms "like angels" {Luke 20:36} God will restore all their memories back to them but they'll become angels not humans!

shadeyinka:
Thank you for your response so far. I am just trying to understand your views. However,
1. Wouldn't a resurrection of my old computer be more or less a restoration of my old computer probably with a higher RAM memory, newer casings, updated software's etc?

2. Is the Life Force the same as the Memory of the dead?
Or is a man's spirit his memory?

Please does this summarise your position for question 1 and 2?

1. Since they are BODILESS, what part of their former existence resurrected?
Your Response:
No part of their former existence comes back to life.
God creates a new being and fills it with the memories of the dead personality
I hope I am correct?

Am I also correct that you believe that a man's spirit is just his memories?

2. Since they are BODILESS, how do they remember their former existence and identity (their brains have rot away at death)?
Your Response:
They do not need a brain to have their memories as God will keep their memories for transplant into a new created being.
I hope I am correct?

Finally, you haven't answered question 3
3. If indeed the 144,000 could exist without their bodies, does that not invalidate your arguments that a human being cannot be conscious without his body? (Please, don't say that it's a special case of Resurrection)

As I am looking at this ONE way or the OTHER something must be RESURRECTED

achorladey:

If you like ask for their group, if you like don't ask na your palaver to sort. What is clear is the below
You can't understand our teachings if you're not ready to learn from those sent to teach you one on one.
When your publications are scrutinized and laid bare before you, what follows is the above in order to save face.
I gave you the below image the other day rather than answer you will rather revert to the bolded above
What religion are you? You go dodge again.......
A. Muslim
B. Christian (the name that is cursed and bastardized no longer has divine inspiration ) ........... they contradict one another

The highlighted is why i just they gbadun you my guy!

Of course i'll ignore whatever will derail the present topic of discussion!