₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkiee:
Inerrancy of Scripture? You do realize that is a doctrine and not even a Truth revealed by God through His prophets and definitely not through the Person of Jesus Christ? Essentially, there is no place in the Bible where you are told that Scripture is inerrant, it is only so by the opinions and doctrines of men, which you remember, Jesus Christ warned vehemently against.

You are already contradicting your self by going against the bible inneracy.

The epistles are the final revelation of God's work, the words that Jesus wanted to reveal but couldn't reveal because his audience were immature has been reveal to us by the epistles.

John 16:12 (KJV) I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Don't forget that Jesus only spent a limited time on earth. You also need to consider the bible as whole, not the notorious cherry picking that you are doing.

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

sammy329:
You are already contradicting your self by going against the bible inneracy.

The epistles are the final revelation of God's work, the words that Jesus wanted to reveal but couldn't reveal because his audience were immature has been reveal to us by the epistles.

John 16:12 (KJV) I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Don't forget that Jesus only spent a limited time on earth. You also need to consider the bible as whole, not the notorious cherry-picking that you are doing.

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I never believed in your Bible inerrancy doctrine, so how can I contradict myself?

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and His replacement is The Spirit of God, not Paul and His epistles which serve no real purpose as far as teaching the core truth of the New Xovenant that is Jesus Christ.

Dancing around the very words of Jesus Christ Himself, suggesting that it instead needs to be corroborated in the epistles, what do you call that? Is that not the core of what cherry-picking is all about -ignoring the Truth of God for a more palatable doctrine of man that only amounts to lies at the end of the day.
Even Paul himself told you.. Let God be true and man a liar.. FYI, Paul is the man here and Jesus Christ, God in this case.

Kobojunkie:
I never believed in your Bible inerrancy doctrine, so how can I contradict myself?

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and His replacement is The Spirit of God, not Paul and His epistles which serve no real purpose as far as teaching the core truth of the New Xovenant that is Jesus Christ.

Dancing around the very words of Jesus Christ Himself, suggesting that it instead needs to be corroborated in the epistles, what do you call that? Is that not the core of what cherry-picking is all about -ignoring the Truth of God for a more palatable doctrine of man that only amounts to lies at the end of the day.
Even Paul himself told you.. Let God be true and man a liar.. FYI, Paul is the man here and Jesus Christ, God in this case.

Always out of context, when the truth is glaring and right in front of you.

have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

sammy329:
Always out of context, when the truth is glaring and right in front of you.

have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

I am beginning to seriously doubt you comprehend the meaning of the term out-of-context.
Paul himself informed you that when it comes to truth, man is a liar whereas God is Truth. Yet here you are suggesting it is "out of context".


Be sure you have no truth to offer me since you suckle from the tit of men...ingesting their many doctrines and opinions/rules..lies which Jesus Christ told you amount to lies. So don't bother telling me of them instead focus on discovering the Truth as given by God.

Kobojunkie:
I am beginning to seriously doubt you comprehend the meaning of the term out-of-context.
Paul himself informed you that when it comes to truth, man is a liar whereas God is Truth. Yet here you are suggesting it is "out of context".


Be sure you have no truth to offer me since you suckle from the tit of men...ingesting their many doctrines and opinions/rules..lies which Jesus Christ told you amount to lies. So don't bother telling me of them instead focus on discovering the Truth as given by God.

You don't even understand the word of Jesus and you are undermining the revelation that God gave in the epistle, as if the revelation of epistles were not given by the same spirit of Christ

You really have no argument, you are just dishonest in your assertion

sammy329:
You don't even understand the word of Jesus and you are undermining the revelation that God gave in the epistle, as if the revelation of epistles were not given by the same spirit of Christ

You really have no argument, you are just dishonest in your assertion

It is clear from the discussion that the lack of understanding as regards the Truth of God is not from my end but yours.
Since the of Jesus Christ carry less weight than your called revelations as given you by Paul, I will like to excuse myself from this discussion at this point since there is nothing more to be explain.

Kobojunkie:
It is clear from the discussion that the lack of understanding as regards the Truth of God is not from my end but yours.
Since the of Jesus Christ carry less weight than your called revelations as given you by Paul, I will like to excuse myself from this discussion at this point since there is nothing more to be explain.

Kobojunkie:
You need to yourself, read the Bible with your own eyes, ears, mind and brain, abandoning the filter that was fed you by your so-called pastors and preachers... Men whom Jesus Christ warned you against..who come with doctrines and traditions that amount to lies and nothing else.

Before Jesus Christ, there was no eternal life or afterlife. Jesus Christ came gifting those who believed in Him(not unbelievers) with Eternal life to all of them, promising Heaven to those who obeyed Him and Hell to those who refuse to obey His commandments.
Here's another obvious clue. Only those with eternal life can withstand damnation for eternity in Hell.

.

Mr Man, read this Bible u claim to have read. U obviously have no iota of idea of what it says...

Even before Jesus came, man is an eternal being. A man is consisted of Body, soul and spirit. U didn't just have a soul when Jesus came, u have always had one and it is eternal. Which can be spent either in Heaven or Hell.

Mailthaddeus:
Mr Man, read this Bible u claim to have read. U obviously have no iota of idea of what it says...

Even before Jesus came, man is an eternal being. A man is consisted of Body, soul and spirit. U didn't just have a soul when Jesus came, u have always had one and it is eternal. Which can be spent either in Heaven or Hell.

Where, in your Bible, do you have God telling you, that even after Adam did not eat from te Tree of Life, that man is an eternal being?
Please, you pretend to know what is written in that book so indulge me...where exactly are you told that man was created an eternal being?

Kobojunkie:
Where, in your Bible, do you have God telling you, that even after Adam did not eat from te Tree of Life, that man is an eternal being?
Please, you pretend to know what is written in that book so indulge me...where exactly are you told that man was created an eternal being?

This ur question was presented to Jesus Christ by the Sadducees in Mark12:26-27. They didn't believe in life after death. See His response.

But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken...

Here Jesus clearer explained to them that there is life after death. That is why even when Moses and Abraham are dead, God is still referred to as God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.

Adam and Eve didn't just exist as go, they have soul which will return back to God. Same goes to u. Your life here determines where ur soul goes to after death. Either it goes to God or it goes to the devil.. U don't suddenly have an eternal soul when u become born again. Take note of this fact.

And if this has blinded ur heart ir guided the way u live ur life, it's time to have a rethink and start living alright.

Mailthaddeus:
This ur question was presented to Jesus Christ by the Sadducees in Mark12:26-27. They didn't believe in life after death. See His response.
But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken...

I am afraid you took a leap there without even realizing what you have done. But do let's continue on here shall we. So, God says " I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob "... Are we to assume that God also meant that even those who did not believe in Him were also alive in Him - including Adam that is?

Mailthaddeus:
Here Jesus clearer explained to them that there is life after death. That is why even when Moses and Abraham are dead, God is still referred to as God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.

We are not concerned about just those who believe in God here are we? We are talking in general of everyone including those who do not care for or believe in God... we are speaking here of all the descendants of Adam... are they all living eternally - do they all also have life after death?

Mailthaddeus:
Adam and Eve didn't just exist as go, they have soul which will return back to God. Same goes to u. Your life here determines where ur soul goes to after death. Either it goes to God or it goes to the devil.. U don't suddenly have an eternal soul when u become born again. Take note of this fact.
And if this has blinded ur heart ir guided the way u live ur life, it's time to have a rethink and start living alright.

OK! So, where are Adam and Eve's souls today? And the Devil you speak of, where, in the Old Testament, is he discussed and his kingdom mentioned?
Or did it all - the devil, his kingdom - just manifest out of thin air when Jesus Christ showed up to the scene?

P.S. Don't worry about my understanding of the Bible but about you and yours!

quote author=Myer post=97114283]

John 17:12
Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Clearly he lost Judas.

Was Judas saved?

madegreatbygrace:
Was Judas saved?

How do you know if someone is saved?

Well, Jesus himself acknowledge that he lost him. Meaning he was saved but he lost him for the scripture to be fulfilled. John 17:12

quote author=Myer post=97253048]

How do you know if someone is saved?

Well, Jesus himself acknowledge that he lost him. Meaning he was saved but he lost him for the scripture to be fulfilled. John 17:12

Don’t give your own interpretation to Jesus’ statement.

He lost him because he didn’t gain him.

How’s a man saved ?

He hears the gospel. He believes the gospel with his heart the gospel. Then he’s saved.( Romans 10:9)

Simple as a.b.c.

Jesus often used another terminology for saved.

Clean.

“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

What made them clean(saved)was the word which they heard and believed.

Was Judas saved?

Jesus gave the answer.

“Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, “You are not all clean.””
‭‭John‬ ‭13:10-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

That’s it!

All are saved with the exception of Judas.

madegreatbygrace:
Was Judas saved?

Judas was saved.. No doubt about that.

Myer:
How do you know if someone is saved?
Well, Jesus himself acknowledge that he lost him. Meaning he was saved but he lost him for the scripture to be fulfilled. John 17:12

Only those who first belong to His flock can be lost to Him.

The Pharisees, for example, never belonged to Jesus Christ to begin with, as they were not given to Him by His Father, so they were not lost to Him. Judas, in the other hand was given to Him meaning he, Judas, belongs in Christ's flock(i.e. was saved and bestowed with Eternal life as a result - He even partook in the last supper and I believe baptized as well), only that does not mean he, Judas, will enter Heaven along with the other 11.

madegreatbygrace:
Don’t give your own interpretation to Jesus’ statement.
He lost him because he didn’t gain him.
How’s a man saved ?

He hears the gospel. He believes the gospel with his heart the gospel. Then he’s saved.( Romans 10:9)
Simple as a.b.c.
Jesus often used another terminology for saved.
Clean.

“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

What made them clean(saved)was the word which they heard and believed.
Was Judas saved?
Jesus gave the answer.

“Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, “You are not all clean.””
‭‭John‬ ‭13:10-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

That’s it!
All are saved with the exception of Judas.

I am sorry, what?

Salvation according to Jesus Christ is redemption from the condemnation of sin which is death... That is what you are saved form, and the result of being saved is simple...eternal life. To be saved, Jesus Christ said all one has to do is believe, be baptized, eat of his blood snd body.

Judas believed..He was after all given Jesus Christ by God and Jesus Christ was clear about this.

madegreatbygrace:
Don’t give your own interpretation to Jesus’ statement.

He lost him because he didn’t gain him.

How’s a man saved ?

He hears the gospel. He believes the gospel with his heart the gospel. Then he’s saved.( Romans 10:9)

Simple as a.b.c.

Jesus often used another terminology for saved.

Clean.

“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

What made them clean(saved)was the word which they heard and believed.

Was Judas saved?

Jesus gave the answer.

“Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, “You are not all clean.””
‭‭John‬ ‭13:10-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

That’s it!

All are saved with the exception of Judas.

Judas did believe in Jesus but was tempted by his love of money exploited by the Pharisees to betray Jesus.

Judas like each of the other disciples was saved but still had his flaws. None of them was perfect. Peter betrayed Jesus by lying and denying him thrice. Thomas doubted the resurrected Christ. Jesus occasionally got angry at their unbelief and lack of understanding, etc.

Judas was saved just like the other disciples. I mean how can Jesus choose and call someone by himself and you say he was not saved

sammy329:
You are already contradicting your self by going against the bible inneracy.

The epistles are the final revelation of God's work, the words that Jesus wanted to reveal but couldn't reveal because his audience were immature has been reveal to us by the epistles.

John 16:12 (KJV) I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Don't forget that Jesus only spent a limited time on earth. You also need to consider the bible as whole, not the notorious cherry picking that you are doing.

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

You mean to say what was revealed through the Holyspirit contradicts what Jesus taught?

Cleqrly you need to spend more time reading than arguing.

He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. John 16:14

Kobojunkie:
Only those who first belong to His flock can be lost to Him.

The Pharisees, for example, never belonged to Jesus Christ to begin with, as they were not given to Him by His Father, so they were not lost to Him. Judas, in the other hand was given to Him meaning he, Judas, belongs in Christ's flock(i.e. was saved and bestowed with Eternal life as a result - He even partook in the last supper and I believe baptized as well), only that does not mean he, Judas, will enter Heaven along with the other 11.

You interprete the scriptures well. Unlike some who only want to see what their pastors tell them about the bible.

[quote author=Myer post=97265692]Judas did believe in Jesus but was tempted by his love of money exploited by the Pharisees to betray Jesus.

Judas like each of the other disciples was saved but still had his flaws. None of them was perfect. Peter betrayed Jesus by lying and denying him thrice. Thomas doubted the resurrected Christ. Jesus occasionally got angry at their unbelief and lack of understanding, etc.

Judas was saved just like the other disciples. I mean how can Jesus choose and call someone by himself and you say he was not saved

Show me from the Bible how you came to the conclusion that Judas was saved. The fact that Jesus chose him to be a disciple didn’t mean he was saved.

Jesus said a couple of times that the reason he was chosen was so that the scripture be fulfilled.

[quote author=madegreatbygrace post=97266417][/quote]Your interpretation of the bible is so juvenile, it feels like discussing with a kid.

Jesus chose and saved him like the others to be his disciple.

He lost him cos the scripture has to be fulfilled.

“But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:64‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

quote author=Myer post=97266734]

Your interpretation of the bible is so juvenile, it feels like discussing with a kid.

Jesus chose and saved him like the others to be his disciple.

He lost him cos the scripture has to be fulfilled.

I think you’re a Bible illiterate really. Just listen to yourself.

He saved him and then lost him?

What!

What then is the role of a savior?

Myer:
You mean to say what was revealed through the Holyspirit contradicts what Jesus taught?

Cleqrly you need to spend more time reading than arguing.

He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. John 16:14

Where did I say that there was contradiction. I just said that the 4 gospels must be explained in the light of the epistle

madegreatbygrace:
I think you’re a Bible illiterate really. Just listen to yourself.

He saved him and then lost him?

What!

What then is the role of a savior?

What does it mean to lose some one?

That means he was once saved.

I know it's difficult for you to admit you're wrong but your stubbornness only shows how hard it is for you to learn.

madegreatbygrace:
“But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:64‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Next time you read, please pay attention to context of what you are reading.... Below... Jesus almost assures you that He did indeed choose even Judas to be His follower... meaning Judas is one of His.

John 6 vs 60-71 (ERV)
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60. When Jesus’ followers heard this, many of them said, “This teaching is hard. Who can accept it?”
61. Jesus already knew that his followers were complaining about this. So he said, “Is this teaching a problem for you?
62. Then what will you think when you see the Son of Man going up to where he came from?
63. It is the Spirit that gives life. The body is of no value for that. But the things I have told you are from the Spirit, so they give life.
64. But some of you don’t believe.” (Jesus knew the people who did not believe. He knew this from the beginning. And he knew the one who would hand him over to his enemies.)
65. Jesus said, “That is why I said, ‘Anyone the Father does not help to come to me cannot come.’”
66. After Jesus said these things, many of his followers left and stopped following him.
67. Jesus asked the twelve apostles, “Do you want to leave too?”
68. Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, where would we go? You have the words that give eternal life.
69. We believe in you. We know that you are the Holy One from God.”

70. Then Jesus answered, “I chose all twelve of you. But one of you is a devil.”
71. He was talking about Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. Judas was one of the twelve apostles, but later he would hand Jesus over to his enemies.

Remember, Judas is not described as one who simply abandoned/walked out on Jesus Christ(some of those who walked with Jesus Christ eventually abandoned Him, Jesus Christ). Instead, Judas is described as the one who betrayed Jesus Christ, meaning he, Judas, first believed in the person of Jesus Christ. If Judas never believed Jesus Christ, how could he be said to have betrayed Jesus Christ, to begin with?

quote author=Myer post=97268095]

What does it mean to lose some one?

That means he was once saved.

I know it's difficult for you to admit you're wrong but your stubbornness only shows how hard it is for you to learn.

Actually, I know who I learn from.

I’m sorry you don’t belong to that class.

By the way, John 6:64 clearly states that he was not saved.

Myer:
You interprete the scriptures well. Unlike some who only want to see what their pastors tell them about the bible.

I don't interprete at all.... nowhere in scripture are we told that scripture should be "interpreted". In fact, the claim that the Spirit of God provides "interpretation" of what is written in scripture is an extra-biblical lie...a doctrine created by men and it has no place in scripture. The Spirit of God instead provides interpretation or a translation from one human language to another, is what Paul wrote of.

And given that all of Scripture was penned from reveals to human minds, in human language to be read by humans, basic comprehension skills is all that I believe is needed to understand what the human authors intended. Now, as far as what the Spirit does, He expands on what we read so we gain the understanding that is necessary for learning the Truth of what is written.

madegreatbygrace:
Actually, I know who I learn from.
I’m sorry you don’t belong to that class.
By the way, John 6:64 clearly states that he was not saved.

Wrong! Jesus Christ, Himself, tells you in verse 70 of the same chapter that Judas was chosen by Him as one of His own. Context is key! Context is King!

In Chapter 10 of the same Gospel of John, Jesus Christ further expands on the reason why some of the Jews believed in Him while others did not.

John 10 vs 22-30 (ERV)
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22. It was winter, and the time came for the Festival of Dedication[b] at Jerusalem.
23. Jesus was in the Temple area at Solomon’s Porch.
24. The Jewish leaders gathered around him. They said, “How long will you make us wonder about you? If you are the Messiah, then tell us clearly.”
25. Jesus answered, “I told you already, but you did not believe. I do miracles in my Father’s name. These miracles show who I am.
26. But you do not believe, because you are not my sheep.
27. My sheep listen to my voice. I know them, and they follow me.
28. I give my sheep eternal life. They will never die, and no one can take them out of my hand.
29. My Father is the one who gave them to me, and he is greater than all.[c] No one can steal my sheep out of his hand.
30. The Father and I are one.”

quote author=Myer post=97268095]

What does it mean to lose some one?

That means he was once saved.

I know it's difficult for you to admit you're wrong but your stubbornness only shows how hard it is for you to learn.

Those who are believers wouldn’t turn traitor and betray Christ. According to John 6:64 , Judas was among those that didn’t believe.

This unbelief led to betrayal.

Time revealed what was actually in Judas’ heart, and who his real master was.


“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.”
‭‭I John‬ ‭2:19‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So his case was not a picture of a swan becoming dirty, but of a pig that never left the mud.