₦airaland Forum

Martian:
My example showed that the idea of perfection is does not change. The idea of what the attributes needed to call an object perfect is what changed.

So there is a difference between the idea of what perfection, and the idea of what soccer ball perfection is. Perfection did not change in my example, attributes of the ball changed.

Pele would have looked at the ball in 1958 and called its state, condition and quality perfect, and Roberto Carlos would have looked at the ball in 1998 and called its state, condition, and quality perfect. The only changes are attributes of the ball.



No, neither contributed to the views I espouse or fought for that ideas (maybe Mandela?) and I’m not impressed by neither them. “...acquired their perfection......” is meaningless. Besides, I thought you cant acquire perfection anyway. It seems they are “perfect” because you like them and they inspire you, and that is valid considering the meaning of idea of perfection.




If we eliminate imperfection, everyone’s perfect since the continuum doesn’t provide for a upper or lower bound. In that case, an indiscriminate logger is just a little bit more perfect than a poacher. A poacher is a little bit more perfect than a rapist. A rapist is a little bit more perfect than a serial killer. And a serial killer is a little bit more perfect than a mass murderer.

I think I am done with this conversation. Thanks for your time.

Martian:
I should have said "If every human is imperfect, there must be an ideal human to serve as a benchmark of “ human perfection” or attributes of perfection that will serve as benchmarks or instances of the idea.

Well, every human is imperfect. That's why we create narratives of 'perfect humans' to create the ideal that inspires us to improve.

Martian:
The idea of perfection is dependent on a rational agent (sensible human?) ascribing an ideal state to an object unless we go by the platonist forms. If we go by the platonist forms, then we can say humans are imperfect. But I don't assume Somna and Lord subscribe to platonist forms.

No, "The idea of perfection is not dependent on a rational agent"! An irrational person can have their own idea of perfection, as can a mad person and an ignorant one.

One does not have to subscribe to platonist forms to form forms in one's head!

Martian:
Would you kill a dictator, fascist or nazi with plans for a "final solution" for Nigerians?

No. I do not have the ability to kill a human being especially when there is less futile action I can take like protest and campaign or die myself.

I should be smarter and have seen the "dictator, fascist or nazi with plans for a "final solution" coming, and done something about it before killing was the only option! If I don't and killing is the only solution then buda has been stupid!

Martian:
Christmas just passed. Would you lie to a child about Father Christmas, Santa Claus, Rudolph etc)?

Why would I tell such a stupid lie? Is there something wrong with the child knowing the truth which is, I bought the present?

Do know that there was a chimney in the house I was born into and my parents never lied to me about FC or SC even though we always had a tree.

Martian:
Would you lie to save a person's life if you don't agree with the reason/morality for the imminent execution?

I'd probably lie to save a person's life even if I "agree with the reason/morality for the imminent execution". However, buda is far too arrogant to lie especially when reasoning is a more powerful option.

Martian:
What if you covet your neighbor's Corvette, then you purchase your own Corvette?

That isn't the meaning of covet in 'thou shalt not covet'. Covet means depriving my neighbour of their Corvette so that I may have one.

There is nothing wrong in my neighbour advertising Corvettes to me, and there's nothing wrong in me taking my money, going to the shop and buying 'I go equal my neighbor's Corvette".

Martian:
Buda thinks a lot of the people on Nairaland are stupid. What if their stupidity is because of limited mental acuity by way of genetics and environment?

buda thinks nothing of the sort! buda knows that there are more people on Nairaland who are not stupid than the stupid ones who show themselves a lot. And their stupidity is "because of limited mental acuity by way of" their refusal to use their brains, and has nothing to do with their genetics, and very not because of their environment.

If they are in the Nairaland environment and remain stupid, it must be by their choice of not willing to heal themselves of their stupidity because there are indeed lots of stupidity healers on Nairaland.

Martian:
Are the mentally handicapped stupid? If stupidity is imperfection, can they ever approach "perfection" no matter how far they journey?

Do you know buda is mentally handicapped? Is buda stupid?

Stupidity is not imperfection. One can be perfectly stupid!

Martian:
You can conceive of a perfect President of Nigeria and also the best President of Nigeria. So Dangote can be the best despite his shadiness considering the shadiness of others like him, and without his shadiness he will be perfect as long as you have element x(s) of what perfection entails like you did above.

I'm glad you noted the flaw in my conception. Dangote may be perfect according to some narrow chosen elements alone. But widen the elements and his shadiness makes him imperfect. Kind of points out the imperfection of the human being, don't you think?

Martian:
Do you mean that the mythical are benchmarks for perfection or certain character traits of mythical figures are benchmarks for perfection?

The mythical is to expand your mind so you have greater information from which to form your idea of perfection. For instance, you must have heard it said that "all Nigerians are crooks". You will find that many of those who subscribe to this ideal would use it as a benchmark for their own behaviour. I myself grew up on a family myth of the Ọba of Ọrun. As a child of the Ọba, my duty is to go up to the heavens and bring down to earth the knowledge and wisdom of the Gods from my Fathers in Heaven. It is a myth I direct my life by.

Martian:
e.g. Is David a benchmark for perfection or is David's bravery against Goliath a benchmark for perfection?
e.g. Is Moremi a benchmark for perfection or is her utilitarian selflessness a benchmark for perfection?

Human's are far too smart than to aim for perfection, Martian. Some see David and Moremi as perfect for what they benchmark but like Dangote, not in all things, while some see Jesus as perfect but do not desire to emulate him and die on a cross to save humanity.

Still, to answer your question, yes. My Biblical benchmark is Solomon. He is like the 100% perfection for me despite his numerous imperfections and has been my 'I want to be like' ideal from since I was 9. He was so wise he asked God for Wisdom and all other things were added unto him. My current Solomon level is 10%. I, buda, aspire daily to be added unto.

Do note however that Solomon is not buda's only benchmark. If you know of Prometheus, you may see how he my an ideal for stealing light from heaven.

LordReed:
I am sure we do mean the same thing.

Perfection is an idea, a journey that humans will always be on. As far as I am concerned there has never been a perfect human nor is it likely there ever will be.

An interesting biblical position, have you been reading your Bible?

budaatum:
Well, every human is imperfect. That's why we create narratives of 'perfect humans' to create the ideal that inspires us to improve.

Do you mean narrative about so called heroes or do you mean narratives of “perfect humans”. Your previous example of David would qualify as a narrative of a hero who displayed the ideal of bravery.

What is an example of a narrative of a “perfect human”?

Also, is their human imperfection solely about ethical/moral ideals or something else?

budaatum:
No, "The idea of perfection is not dependent on a rational agent"! An irrational person can have their own idea of perfection, as can a mad person and an ignorant one.

One does not have to subscribe to platonist forms to form forms in one's head!

Yes, a irrational or a mad person can describe anything as perfect and you can entertain their views if you want but I’m sure you’d rather consider the ideas of a rational or sensible person, even if that person is ignorant. Of course, one doesn’t have to subscribe to platonist forms to form forms.

budaatum:
No. I do not have the ability to kill a human being especially when there is less futile action I can take like protest and campaign or die myself.

Based on this view, you identify with the Jews who were exterminated during the Holocaust more than those that resisted and killed to defend themselves.
The gassed Jews would represent one of your ideals of perfection.

budaatum:
Why would I tell such a stupid lie? Is there something wrong with the child knowing the truth which is, I bought the present?

Do know that there was a chimney in the house I was born into and my parents never lied to me about FC or SC even though we always had a tree.

What if you tell the lie because it’s a fantasy for kids that includes the ideal, “be good for goodness sake”.

budaatum:
I'd probably lie to save a person's life even if I "agree with the reason/morality for the imminent execution". However, buda is far too arrogant to lie especially when reasoning is a more powerful option.

Reasoning is not a choice in this matter. What does lying have to do with arrogance? If you lie to save a life, would you lie to save yours since you won’t kill to save yourself?

budaatum:
That isn't the meaning of covet in 'thou shalt not covet'. Covet means depriving my neighbour of their Corvette so that I may have one.

That is YOUR meaning.
The popular biblical meaning is about desire and not actual deprivation. There is the commandant not to covet your neighbors wife, then there is a commandant not to commit adultery thereby “depriving” your neighbor of his wife and a peaceful home.
You’re free to interpret it anyway though since that’s the norm.

The dictionary calls it inordinate desire for something that isn’t yours and not depriving someone of something that isn’t yours.

budaatum:
Do you know buda is mentally handicapped? Is buda stupid?

That’s for buda to reflect on.

budaatum:
Stupidity is not imperfection. One can be perfectly stupid!

What are examples of imperfection and perfection?

budaatum:
I'm glad you noted the flaw in my conception. Dangote may be perfect according to some narrow chosen elements alone. But widen the elements and his shadiness makes him imperfect.

If he meets certain chosen elements, then he would be a perfect President of Nigeria because he wouldn’t be shady because the shadiness would be excluded from the chosen elements. He has displays the excluded shady elements then he would be an imperfect President of Nigeria.

budaatum:
Kind of points out the imperfection of the human being, don't you think?

No it does not. You are doing the same thing you did when you substituted “best” for “perfect”. Dangote’s case is about the perfect president of Nigeria, not the perfect human being or the imperfection of the human being.

budaatum:
The mythical is to expand your mind so you have greater information from which to form your idea of perfection. For instance, you must have heard it said that "all Nigerians are crooks". You will find that many of those who subscribe to this ideal would use it as a benchmark for their own behaviour.

A stereotype is not an ideal.

budaatum:
I myself grew up on a family myth of the Ọba of Ọrun. As a child of the Ọba, my duty is to go up to the heavens and bring down to earth the knowledge and wisdom of the Gods my Fathers in Heaven. It is a myth I direct my life by.

Cool story. How do you interpret the “go up to the heavens and bring down to earth the knowledge and wisdom of the Gods and my Fathers in Heaven”?

budaatum:
Human's are far too smart than to aim for perfection, Martian. Some see David and Moremi as perfect for what they benchmark but like Dangote, not in all things, while some see Jesus as perfect, but do not desire to emulate him and die on a cross to save humanity.

You’ve already said humans create mythical figures to emulate in a quest to achieve a semblance of whatever they think perfection is. How is that not aiming for perfection?

budaatum:
Still, to answer your question, yes. My Biblical benchmark is Solomon. He is like the 100% perfection for me despite his numerous imperfections and gas been my I want to be like ideal from since I was 9. He was so wise he asked God for Wisdom, and all other things were added unto him.

Cool. Solomon’s story is good metaphor for seeking knowledge and reasoning to increase in wisdom.

budaatum:
My current Solomon level is 10%. I, buda, aspire daily to be added unto.

Congratulations.

budaatum:
Do note however that Solomon is not buda's only benchmark. If you know of Prometheus, you may see how he is an ideal for stealing light from heaven.

Let’s leave the gods out this. Stealing light from Heaven sounds too much like stealing the scepter of knowledge from Valhalla; neither means anything. Unless, the light and heaven are metaphors for something useful.

Imagine a 1 year old boy cooing and playing.
Is he imperfect? Why?

Imagine the boy as a 10 year old clutching a power ranger action figure and grinning at you.
Is he imperfect? Why?

Imagine the boy as a 20 year old staring at his phone worrying about Arsenal F.C.
Is he imperfect? Why?

Martian:
Do you mean narrative about so called heroes or do you mean narratives of “perfect humans”. Your previous example of David would qualify as a narrative of a hero who displayed the ideal of bravery.

What is an example of a narrative of a “perfect human”?

An example would be what suits the individual determining according to their own idea of perfection. That's why people end up with Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Perseus, Shango etc.

Martian:
Also, is their human imperfection solely about ethical/moral ideals or something else?

Obviously not. It is however based on the individual's idea of perfect "ethical/moral ideals or something else". A person could be a perfect thief, to some.

Martian:
Yes, a irrational or a mad person can describe anything as perfect and you can entertain their views if you want but I’m sure you’d rather consider the ideas of a rational or sensible person, even if that person is ignorant. Of course, one doesn’t have to subscribe to platonist forms to form forms.

As I said, A person could be a perfect thief, to some. Thankfully, those rational people you claimed might not share my idea of a "perfect human" would not include perfect thief in their ideal of a perfect human.

Martian:
Based on this view, you identify with the Jews who were exterminated during the Holocaust more than those that resisted and killed to defend themselves.
The gassed Jews would represent one of your ideals of perfection.

That is your own understanding and you must proudly own it instead of painting it on buda.

Some Jews did not wait for the gassing to begin before they took flight and survived. Some even stayed and challenged the gas by saving many at the cost of their own lives. If you read carefully, you mught find buda to be closer to those two than your "based on this view".

Martian:
What if you tell the lie because it’s a fantasy for kids that includes the ideal, “be good for goodness sake”.

I do not need to tell a fantasy as a lie. I can make my fantasy so fantastic that it is obvious to any child that it is a lie and still put across an ideal that is good for goodness sake. It is usually called storytelling, like Aesop's rabbit and fox stories. Or did you think they were real when you read them?

Martian:
Reasoning is not a choice in this matter because reasoning wasn’t one of your examples of the ideals of perfection.

Neither was washing hands after toilet, but you would expect it to be on my detailed list, no, after all, it can be argued that a person with poo on their hand is far from perfect, would you not think?

Martian:
What does lying have to do with arrogance? If you lie to save a life, would you lie to save yours since you won’t kill to save yourself?

Quite a lot, according to my ideal of achievable perfection. But did you miss me say "I'd probably lie to save a person's life even if I "agree with the reason/morality for the imminent execution"?

If I would debase myself by lying to save someone else why is it not expected that I will lie easily to save myself? Is someone else more valuable than oneself in your own opinion?

Martian:
That is YOUR meaning.
The popular biblical meaning is about desire and not actual deprivation. You’re free to interpret it anyway though since that’s the norm.

I'm delighted you recognise my freedom to interpret it according to my own understanding as opposed to "anyway" as you slightly pressume because if my neighbour has a doctors degree and I strive to emulate and go and get one too, your understanding will make me a covetous sinner!

Martian:
The dictionary calls it inordinate desire for something that isn’t yours and not depriving someone of something that isn’t yours.

That "inordinate" means "unusually or disproportionately large; excessive. (of a person) unrestrained in feelings or behaviour".

There is nothing excessive or unrestrained or disproportionate in wanting what my neighbour has so long as I do not intend to deprive my neighbour of what they have so I have it. Following the footsteps of my doctor neighbour to school for my doctorate does not deprive my neighbour of his doctoring and most neighbours would be glad to have been my inspiration.

Martian:
What are examples of imperfection and perfection?

A circle is perfectly round. A square is perfectly square. A square is imperfect as a circle.

I know you'd want to argue this, but consider calculus before you do.

Martian:
If he meets certain chosen elements, then he would be a perfect President of Nigeria because he wouldn’t be shady because the shadiness would be excluded from the chosen elements. He has displays the excluded shady elements then he would be an imperfect President of Nigeria.

Yet, note that I still choose him despite his imperfections. He must best meet my criteria, I guess. Read here where HellVictorinho called it "choose what is bad if the only option except it is worse". Dangote would be my "best out of all possibles" but that in no way implies perfection.

Martian:
No it does not. You are doing the same thing you did when you substituted “best” for “perfect”. Dangote’s case is about the perfect president of Nigeria, not the imperfection of the human being.

This is unnecessarily lazy. Only forgivable because you are not expected to be perfect. I'm certain I've repeatedly mentioned that Dangote is not perfect in all things, but aside that, would it not be rather impetuous to assume anyone can be a "perfect president of Nigeria"?

Perhaps go back and read my "perfect Dangote" as "currently the best candidate for the job in buda's opinion" instead of making out it is some gospel truth! I do not expect many to agree with my choice, even not Dangote himself.

Martian:
A stereotype is not an ideal.

Am I punching above your weight Martian, for I never said a stereotype was an ideal despite stereotypes being ideal to some.

Martian:
Cool story. How do you interpret the “go up to the heavens and bring down to earth the knowledge and wisdom of the Gods and my Fathers in Heaven”?

It began with learning what light was, finding where heaven is, and devising a way to bring light from heaven to earth, which for close on 20 years meant shipping books to the Orolu Local Government Library. It is my belief that that was training for greater things.

Martian:
You’ve already said humans create mythical figures to emulate in a quest to achieve a semblance of whatever they think perfection is. How is that not aiming for perfection?

I hope you are right and we do aim. As you might have noted, even I aim for Solomon.

Martian:
Let’s leave the gods out this. Stealing light from Heaven sounds too much like stealing the scepter of knowledge from Valhalla; neither does not mean anything. Unless, the light and heaven are metaphors for something useful.

Is something wrong with them being metaphors? Is it bad to metamorphise Valhalla into 'shipping books to the Orolu Local Government Library'?

Martian:
Imagine a 1 year old boy cooing and playing.
Is he imperfect?

Perfect what? At being 1 year old, or at cooing and playing?

Martian:
Imagine the boy as a 10 year old clutching a power ranger action figure and grinning at you.
Is he imperfect?

Perfect what? Perfect at "clutching a power ranger action figure and grinning", or at being a 10 year old boy?

Martian:
Imagine the boy as a 20 year old staring at his phone worrying about Arsenal F.C.
Is he imperfect?

Imperfect at what? "Staring at his phone", "worrying about Arsenal F.C." or being a 20 year old boy?

I hope the absurdity of those last 3 answers spring out at you.

budaatum:
An example would be what suits the individual determining according to their own idea of perfection. That's why people end up with Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Perseus, Shango etc.

There there is no such thing as human perfection or human imperfection because the idea itself is based on whatever worldview that one has.

budaatum:
Obviously not. It is however based on the individual's idea of perfect "ethical/moral ideals or something else". A person could be a perfect thief, to some.

Since this is based on each individual's ideas, doesn't it mean that humans are inherently neither perfect or imperfect because there is no objective view of what perfection entails? Hell, Lord Reed's view changed to a continuum of perfection and Somnavinya thinks some fella called god sent the torah through the Jews as instruction to achieve perfection

Knowing the Jesus people, they would probably balk at the idea of Super Jew being mentioned in the same breathe as Mohammed and Shango.

budaatum:
As I said, A person could be a perfect thief, to some. Thankfully, those rational people you claimed might not share my idea of a "perfect human" would not include perfect thief in their ideal of a perfect human.

What if they did include a perfect thief in their ideal of a perfect human? Someone can legitimately counter your Solomon with Robin Hood (assuming he's the perfect thief) and neither of you would be wrong nor right.

budaatum:
That is your own understanding and you must proudly own it instead of painting it on buda.
Some Jews did not wait for the gassing to begin before they took flight and survived. [b]Some even stayed and challenged the gas by saving many at the cost of their own lives. [/b]If you read carefully, you might find buda to be closer to those two than your "based on this view".

"I do not have the ability to kill a human being especially when there is less futile action I can take like protest and campaign or die myself."
Budaatum

You are closer to the ones in the gas chamber based on the quote above. How do you challenge gas?

budaatum:
I do not need to tell a fantasy as a lie. I can make my fantasy so fantastic that it is obvious to any child that it is a lie and still put across an ideal that is good for goodness sake.

Ok, grinch.

budaatum:
It is usually called storytelling, like Aesop's rabbit and fox stories. Or did you think they were real when you read them?

Believing fairy tales and mythology is your province.

budaatum:
Neither was washing hands after toilet, but you would expect it to be on my detailed list, no, after all, it can be argued that a person with poo on their hand is far from perfect, would you not think?

Hey, I don't know how mundane your list of perfection is, so maybe washing your hands after the toilet is on the list.

budaatum:
Quite a lot, according to my ideal of achievable perfection. But did you miss me say "I'd probably lie to save a person's life even if I "agree with the reason/morality for the imminent execution"?
If I would debase myself by lying to save someone else why is it not expected that I will lie easily to save myself? Is someone else more valuable than oneself in your own opinion?

I don’t think someone else is more valuable than oneself. I just wanted to see what you will tell a lie about.

budaatum:
I'm delighted you recognise my freedom to interpret it according to my own understanding as opposed to "anyway" as you slightly pressume because if my neighbour has a doctors degree and I strive to emulate and go and get one too, your understanding will make me a covetous sinner!

Doesn't take much to delight you.

I don't have a horse in the race so anything I say regarding it can't make you a "sinner". They are your commandments, not mine. It's not my understanding that makes you a "sinner", it's the book you quoted which delineates between desire and action as I've already shown.

budaatum:
That "inordinate" means "unusually or disproportionately large; excessive. (of a person) unrestrained in feelings or behaviour".
There is nothing excessive or unrestrained or disproportionate in wanting what my neighbour has so long as I do not intend to deprive my neighbour of what they have so I have it. Following the footsteps of my doctor neighbour to school for my doctorate does not deprive my neighbour of his doctoring and most neighbours would be glad to have been my inspiration.

"That isn't the meaning of covet in 'thou shalt not covet'. Covet means depriving my neighbour of their Corvette so that I may have one."
Budaatum

Covetousness means inordinate desire. You are the one who included deprivation in your “understanding” of covetousness.

budaatum:
A circle is perfectly round. A square is perfectly square. A square is imperfect as a circle.
I know you'd want to argue this, but consider calculus before you do

Congratulations, you know about squaring the circle. Back to the idea of perfection we are talking about.
What are examples of human imperfection and human perfection?

budaatum:
Yet, note that I still choose him despite his imperfections. He must best meet my criteria, I guess. Read here where HellVictorinho called it "choose what is bad if the only option except it is worse". Dangote would be my "best out of all possibles" but that in no way implies perfection.

You implied his perfection as president. I did not. That's how Dangote got into the conversation in the first place.

budaatum:
This is unnecessarily lazy. Only forgivable because you are not expected to be perfect. I'm certain I've repeatedly mentioned that Dangote is not perfect in all things, but aside that, would it not be rather impetuous to assume anyone can be a "perfect president of Nigeria"?

It's unnecessary lazy? Thank the almighty pixies, it's forgivable!!!
If you are capable of giving it cautious rather that impetuous thought, you can come up with attributes for a "perfect president of Nigeria" because it all depends on what you think "perfect/imperfect" entails.

budaatum:
Perhaps go back and read my "perfect Dangote" as "currently the best candidate for the job in buda's opinion" instead of making out it is some gospel truth! I do not expect many to agree with my choice, even not Dangote himself.

You probably don't agree with your choice.

budaatum:
Am I punching above your weight Martian, for I never said a stereotype was an ideal despite stereotypes being ideal to some.

I should say you're punching above your weight but there's no need for arrogance. You made a claim about one stereotype being an ideal to some, so back it up with these other stereotypes and people that hold them as ideals.

budaatum:
It began with learning what light was, finding where heaven is, and devising a way to bring light from heaven to earth, which for close on 20 years meant

Is the above a serious reply to this "How do you interpret the “go up to the heavens and bring down to earth the knowledge and wisdom of the Gods and my Fathers in Heaven”?

You basically said the same shit and I still don't know what you're talking about.

budaatum:
shipping books to the Orolu Local Government Library. It is my belief that that was training for greater things.

That's nice. I still don’t see how your charity is a metaphor for finding out what light is and where heaven is.

budaatum:
I hope you are right and we do aim. As you might have noted, even I aim for Solomon.

The sentiment behind the story is cool but you said you're 10% currently. How do you figure?

budaatum:
Is something wrong with them being metaphors? Is it bad to metamorphise Valhalla into 'shipping books to the Orolu Local Government Library'?

No there's nothing wrong with metaphors unless one takes it literal.

budaatum:
Perfect what? At being 1 year old, or at cooing and playing?
Perfect what? Perfect at "clutching a power ranger action figure and grinning", or at being a 10 year old boy?
Imperfect at what? "Staring at his phone", "worrying about Arsenal F.C." or being a 20 year old boy?
I hope the absurdity of those last 3 answers spring out at you.

The absurdity springs out at you. You said humans are imperfect. I gave you three examples to clarify your assertion that humans are imperfect, and it's not about cooing, playing, clutching, or Arsenal.

You, Lord Reed (before he cxhanged his view), and Somna agreed with each other that humans are imperfect, so here are three generic examples or you can use real people that you know if you can't wrap your mind around it.

What makes the 1 year old boy an imperfect human?
What makes the 10 year old boy an imperfect human?
What makes the 20 year old boy an imperfect human?

Martian:
There there is no such thing as human perfection or human imperfection because the idea itself is based on whatever worldview that one has.



Since this is based on each individual's ideas, doesn't it mean that humans are inherently neither perfect or imperfect because there is no objective view of what perfection entails? Hell, Lord Reed's view changed to a continuum of perfection and Somnavinya thinks some fella called god sent the torah through the Jews.

Knowing the Jesus people, they would probably balk at being mentioned in the same breathe as Mohammed and Shango.



What if they did include a perfect thief in their ideal of a perfect human? Someone can legitimately counter your Solomon with Robin Hood (assuming he's the perfect thief) and neither would be wrong.



"I do not have the ability to kill a human being especially when there is less futile action I can take like protest and campaign or die myself."
Budaatum

You are closer to the ones in the gas chamber based on the quote above. How do you challenge gas?



Ok, grinch.



Believing fairy tales and mythology is your province.



Hey, I don't know how mundane your list of perfection is so maybe washing your hands after the toilet could be on the list.



"I do not have the ability to kill a human being especially when there is less futile action I can take like protest and campaign or die myself."
Budaatum



Doesn't take much to delight you.

I don't have a horse in the race so anything I say regarding it can't make you a "sinner". They are your commandments, not mine. It's not my understanding that makes you a "sinner", it's the book you quoted which delineates between desire and action as I've already shown.



"That isn't the meaning of covet in 'thou shalt not covet'. Covet means depriving my neighbour of their Corvette so that I may have one."
Budaatum



Congratulations, you know about squaring the circle. Back to the idea of perfection we are talking about.
What are examples of human imperfection and human perfection?



You implied his perfection as president. I did not. That's how Dangote got into the conversation in the first place.



It's unnecessary lazy? Thank the almighty pixies, it's forgivable!!!
If you are capable of giving it cautious rather that impetuous thought, you can come up with attributes for a "perfect president of Nigeria" because it all depends on what you think "perfect/imperfect" entails.



You probably don't agree with your choice.



I should say you're punching above your weight but there's no need for arrogance. You made a claim about one stereotype being an ideal to some, so back it up with these other stereotypes and people that hold them as ideals.



Is the above a serious reply to this "How do you interpret the “go up to the heavens and bring down to earth the knowledge and wisdom of the Gods and my Fathers in Heaven”?

You basically said the same shit and I still don't know what you're talking about.



That's nice



The sentiment behind the story is cool but you said you're 10% currently. How do you figure?



No there's nothing wrong with metaphors unless one takes it literal.



The absurdity springs out at you. You said humans are imperfect. I gave you three examples to clarify your assertion that humans are imperfect, and it's not about cooing, playing, clutching, or Arsenal.

You, Lord Reed (before he cxhanged his view), and Somna agreed with each other that humans are imperfect, so here are three generic examples or you can use real people that you know if you can't wrap your mind around it.

What makes the 1 year old boy an imperfect human?
What makes the 10 year old boy an imperfect human?
What makes the 20 year old boy an imperfect human?

It depends on the superiority of a performance.
In other words,if there is a specific activity that is carried out by people and a person performs that activity in a way that cannot be matched,then he or she is perfect as a doer of such activity.
So,let's specify the activity before we talk about perfection.
I have used rap as an example before.

HellVictorinho:
It depends on the superiority of a performance.
In other words,if there is a specific activity that is carried out by people and a person performs that activity in a way that cannot be matched,then he or she is perfect as a doer of such activity.
So,let's specify the activity before we talk about perfection.
I have used rap as an example before.

Do you want us to start an argument on what is perfect, especially after I said it's like beauty, in the eye of the beholder, lol? You do understand that I mean that my 'perfect' might be just 'good' on your perfection scale, or so 'bad' or 'superior' that your scale might need adjusting?

It's not a competition hell. I'm just exchanging opinion with you and not asking you to believe me. That's what reasoning is about afterall. The exchange of opinion and ideas so one learns.

budaatum:
Do you want us to start an argument on what is perfect, especially after I said it's like beauty, in the eye of the beholder, lol? You do understand that I mean that my 'perfect' might be just 'good' on your perfection scale, or so 'bad' or 'superior' that your scale might need adjusting?

It's not a competition hell. I'm just exchanging opinion with you and not asking you to believe me. That's what reasoning is about afterall. The exchange of opinion and ideas so one learns.

Can perfection be taught?

HellVictorinho:
Can perfection be taught?

Can one be perfect? Is perfect not a state of becoming, as in, what one can only aspire towards and the closer one gets the further it is from one?

One can learn to strive to become "perfect" but there really aren't enough years in one lifetime to achieve it is what I think, not if living actually matters to one at least. Just playing the piano semi-perfectly takes hours of daily practise, so imagine if one wants to be a perfect human being if such a thing can exist, that is.

Imagine the teacher. Are they perfect humans and teachers who perfectly know and understand what they teach or do they assume to be perfect according to their own scale? Then imagine the student. Are they perfect at studenting?

Diligence is one thing that is taught as a proxy for perfection or near enough to it. Humans who recognise their falibility and strive to overcome it get better. But perfect? Hmmmm.

Read the perfection of buda. You might understand buda's imperfection.

budaatum:
Can one be perfect? Is perfect not a state of becoming, as in, what one can only aspire towards and the closer one gets the further it is from one?

One can learn to strive to become "perfect" but there really aren't enough years in one lifetime to achieve it is what I think, not if living actually matters to one at least. Just playing the piano semi-perfectly takes hours of daily practise, so imagine if one wants to be a perfect human being if such a thing can exist, that is.

Imagine the teacher. Are they perfect humans and teachers who perfectly know and understand what they teach or do they assume to be perfect according to their own scale? Then imagine the student. Are they perfect at studenting?

Diligence is one thing that is taught as a proxy for perfection or near enough to it. Humans who recognise their falibility and strive to overcome it get better. But perfect? Hmmmm.

Read perfection of buda. You might understand buda's imperfection.

Hmmmmm
Can a single performance be perfect?

ameri9ja:
One word: PEACE

I beg to differ. Religion has been everything but peaceful. If you lived through the dark ages, Christianity would have been a pain due to their inhumane practices, now, we are facing issues with Islamic extremists, in India, the Hindus and Muslims are also having their issh. The Spanish went to the South Americas in the name of spreading religion and ended up almost wiping out the native populations.