BassReeves:
I wasn't going to, but I enjoyed reading how you went out on a limp.

For as long as Lucifer was restrained by God, sin was not found in Lucifer. Lucifer fell the moment Lucifer was unrestrained, just as like, Pharaoh was left unrestrained, to reveal what his true nature is. Neither Lucifer nor Pharaoh partook in any tree of the knowledge of good and evil of their own, but I must repeat that, nonetheless I enjoyed how got thinking out of the box.

Bulleyes! Now, you just there talked my language

Mark 8:35
'For whoever wants to save his life, will lose it,
but whoever loses his life for My sake and for the gospel will save it.'

Matthew 16:24-25
'24Then Jesus told His disciples,
“If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me.
25For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.'

A deep question to ponder upon is:
Even if given the opportunity, can the Creature truely severe his link with his Creator?

The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil offers exactly that. It is understandable that the result of such severance lead to DEATH for the life of the created is on loan from his Creator!

budaatum:


Oh. So despite the fact they lived like 800 years after they ate of the Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil before they died, you call it the tree of death? Ok.

Lord God, please do not ever allow buda to believe what Shadeyinka believes. And consider making Shadeyinka sacrifice all to acquire understanding.

In Jesus Mighty Name I beg thee. Amen.

1. What then do you understand by:
Gen 2:17:
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die."?

2. Satan said:
You will not surely die...
You will be like God...

Is satan speaking the truth?

3. Why do you think God desires to perpetually keep man in ignorance?

shadeyinka:

1. What then do you understand by:
Gen 2:17:
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die."?

Are you asking me to repeat a position I began with you on this very thread and which BassReeves took up as your ally? Sorry, but I do not waste my time like that!

shadeyinka:
2. Satan said:
You will not surely die...
You will be like God...

Is satan speaking the truth?

Unless Adam and Eve surely died on the day that they ate, and if it is not true that even the God recognised that "Man has become like us", it would seem so. But I did warn you that if satan could meddle in the Garden of Eden then satan could meddle with the text we read. If that were not the case the Word of God would have ended before Jesus and there would have been no need for the Holy Spirit.

shadeyinka:
3. Why do you think God desires to perpetually keep man in ignorance?

If Jesus Christ was ignorant He would have bowed down and worshipped satan and we'd have no Messiah.

An Almighty God, Creator of Heaven and Earth, can not desire to keep humans in ignorance for a second not to talk of perpetually unless that God is stupid and wants humans to fall prey to serpents. Instead, [url=https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+1%3A20-23&version=KJV]God set Wisdom on top of a rooftop yelling at you "come get some"![/url]

budaatum:


Are you asking me to repeat a position I began with you on this very thread and which BassReeves took up as your ally? Sorry, but I do not waste my time like that!

I still do not know your exact position on this!

budaatum:

Unless Adam and Eve surely died on the day that they ate, and if it is not true that even the God recognised that "Man has become like us", it would seem so. But I did warn you that if satan could meddle in the Garden of Eden then satan could meddle with the text we read. If that were not the case the Word of God would have ended before Jesus and there would have been no need for the Holy Spirit.

Don't you think that if man has become like God in the knowledge of good and evil, then man should be wise and not require the coming of Jesus 4000 years after eating of the fruit?

Man has become like Elohim is becoming the SOURCE and STANDARD for his morality (good and evil). This is the sense by which man has become like God.

Has man truely been blessed with knowledge?

budaatum:

If Jesus Christ was ignorant He would have bowed down and worshipped satan and we'd have no Messiah.

An Almighty God, Creator of Heaven and Earth, can not desire to keep humans in ignorance for a second not to talk of perpetually unless that God is stupid and wants humans to fall prey to serpents. Instead, [url=https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+1%3A20-23&version=KJV]God set Wisdom on top of a rooftop yelling at you "come get some"![/url]

But why was God angry with man for "choosing Knowledge"?

shadeyinka:

I still do not know your exact position on this!

How can you possibly know when you can not become as a child and see with your eyes?

shadeyinka:
Don't you think that if man has become like God in the knowledge of good and evil, then man should be wise and not require the coming of Jesus 4000 years after eating of the fruit?

You should go and study the history of human beings to get an idea how far we have come. But satan never tires and is diligently at work holding us back. Just see how you twist "on the day you eat you wil surely die" to 800 years later, and call the The Tree of Knowledge the tree of death. It's like you refuse to use your eyes which is the greatest desire of satan, and to make it worse, you will claim to have the greatest optician, Jesus Christ the Messiah, in your life! Are you sure you have had mud rubbed in your eyes and bathed in the pool of Siloam so that you may see?

shadeyinka:

Has man truely been blessed with knowledge?

"For God so loved the world, that God gave us the only Begotten Son, that whomsoever understandeth his teachings shall live". (bav)

That is how blessed we are. But unfortunately for us, we crucify Jesus daily instead of seeking understanding. It's like some want to be stupid if you asked me. If not, Woe!

shadeyinka:

But why was God angry with man for "choosing Knowledge"?

I will tell you again. Listen carefully.

Hear, O Shadeyinka, the Word of God according to Scripture.

1 And God spake all these words, saying,

2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13167009_notable02590_jpeg699ae28bb8a32d0a10750b5ca6f0947c

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

God alone must you worship. Not a book!

budaatum:

How can you possibly know when you can not become as a child and see with your eyes?

And like a child I have asked you who claim to know, but got vagueness as answer.

budaatum:

You should go and study the history of human beings to get an idea how far we have come. But satan never tires and is diligently at work holding us back. Just see how you twist "on the day you eat you wil surely die" to 800 years later, and call the The Tree of Knowledge the tree of death. It's like you refuse to use your eyes which is the greatest desire of satan, and to make it worse, you will claim to have the greatest optician, Jesus Christ the Messiah, in your life! Are you sure you have had mud rubbed in your eyes and bathed in the pool of Siloam so that you may see?

If we'll use your kind of argument, Adam and Eve were supposed to know NOT supposed to be gradually increasing in knowledge. You will agree that the acquisition of knowledge seem to have been in an exponential fashion.

You refuse to admit that the scriptures speak of other kinds of death in other to maintain your line of reasoning.

Even now 2021, man has not learnt the kind of lesson Jesus was teaching. Have we!? How can we claim to have known anything. For Jesus said:
Mat 6:19-21:
"Lay not up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust does corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust does corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

So simple, yet elusive for those who have been learning for almost 6000 years!

budaatum:

"For God so loved the world, that God gave us the only Begotten Son, that whomsoever understandeth his teachings shall live". (bav)

That is how blessed we are. But unfortunately for us, we crucify Jesus daily instead of seeking understanding. It's like some want to be stupid if you asked me. If not, Woe!


I will tell you again. Listen carefully.

Hear, O Shadeyinka, the Word of God according to Scripture.

1 And God spake all these words, saying,

2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13167009_notable02590_jpeg699ae28bb8a32d0a10750b5ca6f0947c

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

God alone must you worship. Not a book!

The scriptures you quoted are true, only probably misapplied!
No one worships the bible! The Bible is a chronicle of the interaction of God with man, man's Failures, successes, deeds and the plan of redemption. The bible helps you to learn so that you may fulfill Gods desire for your life.
Jer 8:8-9:
"How do you say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? See, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain. The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: see, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?"

shadeyinka:

And like a child I have asked you who claim to know, but got vagueness as answer.

Contrary to what you might think, even I am still learning, which is why I am not a believer who pressumes to know already, or a devil's associate who lies to oneself. And the subject itself is vague, which is why you must [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207%3A7-8&version=KJV]ask and see and knock[/url] in order to understand instead of [url=https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+2%3A19&version=KJV]merely believing and trembling in fear of knowledge like a demon[/url].

Then, on top of that, the ability to comprehend the Kingdom of God is within you yourself, but for some reason you and many many Christians are prone to be seeking it here and there and in Scripture and in preachers in whom you think you will find God in His Kingdom, and in buda, which is why you ask instead of opening your eyes to see for yourself instead of lying to yourself.

I mean, come on! How much more absurd can you get. But amazingly, you go further. Just listen to yourself claiming Adam and Eve died though they went on to live till 930 without you being able to confess that you believe that because you've been told to believe it.

I tell you the truth, if I become like you I will personally take myself to the bottom of a river and bash my head against a rock and drown myself and gouge out my brains and chop up my limbs and scatter them everywhere so that you will not he able to doubt that I am surely most certainly dead in every way you can possible conceive or imagine. But I guess you need to have been dead like atheist buda was. If you had, you would never want to be dead like that again.

shadeyinka:
You refuse to admit that the scriptures speak of other kinds of death in other to maintain your line of reasoning.

You will not understand how kind I am being to you. buda was an atheist from birth. And not the sort who merely believed there was no God, but one who knew categorically that there were no Gods. Please tell, was atheist buda not completely dead in any form you can possible think of or imagine? Then God found buda and buda lives.

I am telling you to now go to the text. You will find that Adam and Eve were nothing like that atheist buda. God does not kill anyone just because they sinned once then tell buda to forgive 7 times 70 times. That would be like asking buda to be more perfect than God, or at least "become like us".

shadeyinka:

The scriptures you quoted are true, only probably misapplied!
No one worships the bible!

I can not possibly convince you that you do worship the Bible. Like most people you can not imagine that the text you read could have been meddled with even before the Hebrews got it, and as if the Romans who took it from the Hebrews could not corrupt it before they gave it to the English and everyone else who might have also corrupted it before giving it to you. You believe all those people are Men of God, so you dare not touch their anointed understanding that they ask you to believe.

But disregard all that. We are grateful for the text we have, corrupted or not, for we would be worse off without it. You then corrupt your own understanding by claiming the Adam and Eve who went on to live for 800 years surely died when they ate of the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, which to you is the tree of death.

I tell you the truth Shade, I will be rejoicing in hell at you if I were satan, and will be working diligently to ensure you never accept Christ, though you think you have, least your eyes open and you see that the Bible was made for humans by humans, and not humans for the Bible.

Go on, say buda is "probably missapplying Scripture" instead of listening to the Holy Spirit that is supposed to be within yourself. Lol!

budaatum:

Contrary to what you might think, even I am still learning, which is why I am not a believer who pressumes to know already, or a devil's associate who lies to oneself. And the subject itself is vague, which is why you must [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207%3A7-8&version=KJV]ask and see and knock[/url] in order to understand instead of [url=https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+2%3A19&version=KJV]merely believing and trembling in fear of knowledge like a demon[/url].

Then, on top of that, the ability to comprehend the Kingdom of God is within you yourself, but for some reason you and many many Christians are prone to be seeking it here and there and in Scripture and in preachers in whom you think you will find God in His Kingdom, and in buda, which is why you ask instead of opening your eyes to see for yourself instead of lying to yourself.

The kingdom of God is when you have His Spirit inside you as you submit to His Lordship. It cannot be conveyed simpler than that.

The kingdom of God is the domain where His will, rule, authority and presence is NOT challenged whatsoever. The kingdom of God in you is becoming like a child to God's will from His Holy Spirit in you.

At present, the full expression of God's kingdom can only be in YOU until we all fully and bodily dwell in Him in paradise.

This is the kingdom of God and the link to understanding becoming like a child before Him.

The Scriptures show you how to receive God's Spirit and also lead you to knowing Him who lives in you by His Spirit.

budaatum:

I mean, come on! How much more absurd can you get. But amazingly, you go further. Just listen to yourself claiming Adam and Eve died though they went on to live till 930 without you being able to confess that you believe that because you've been told to believe it.

I tell you the truth, if I become like you I will personally take myself to the bottom of a river and bash my head against a rock and drown myself and gouge out my brains and chop up my limbs and scatter them everywhere so that you will not he able to doubt that I am surely most certainly dead in every way you can possible conceive or imagine. But I guess you need to have been dead like atheist buda was. If you had, you would never want to be dead like that again.


You will not understand how kind I am being to you. buda was an atheist from birth. And not the sort who merely believed there was no God, but one who knew categorically that there were no Gods. Please tell, was atheist buda not completely dead in any form you can possible think of or imagine? Then God found buda and buda lives.

I am telling you to now go to the text. You will find that Adam and Eve were nothing like that atheist buda. God does not kill anyone just because they sinned once then tell buda to forgive 7 times 70 times. That would be like asking buda to be more perfect than God, or at least "become like us".

As far as you are concerned, death can only be Physical and nothing else. Even when I have explained several times that Adam and Eve died a Spiritual death. Spiritual death in other words is when the kingdom of God is absent from within you. Instead of God ruling you from within, you rule yourself as your own moral authority (haven kñown to decide what is good and evil for yourself). This in other words is spiritual death. In spiritual death, you have become a god to yourself, not needing anyone to decide how to live your life.

In Christ Jesus, you become a recipient of God's Holy Spirit (born again) and thus, like a child submit to His rulership so that the kingdom of God can truely exist within you.

budaatum:

I can not possibly convince you that you do worship the Bible. Like most people you can not imagine that the text you read could have been meddled with even before the Hebrews got it, and as if the Romans who took it from the Hebrews could not corrupt it before they gave it to the English and everyone else who might have also corrupted it before giving it to you. You believe all those people are Men of God, so you dare not touch their anointed understanding that they ask you to believe.

But disregard all that. We are grateful for the text we have, corrupted or not, for we would be worse off without it. You then corrupt your own understanding by claiming the Adam and Eve who went on to live for 800 years surely died when they ate of the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, which to you is the tree of death.

I tell you the truth Shade, I will be rejoicing in hell at you if I were satan, and will be working diligently to ensure you never accept Christ, though you think you have, least your eyes open and you see that the Bible was made for humans by humans, and not humans for the Bible.

Go on, say buda is "probably missapplying Scripture" instead of listening to the Holy Spirit that is supposed to be within yourself. Lol!

The scriptures isn't some magical scripts. It is a chronicle and a guide for those of us who are alive.

2Tim 3:16-17:
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished to all good works."


The above shows the purpose of ALL the compiled scripture. Application of the scriptures in daily living will make a man productive in the kingdom of God he represents!

shadeyinka:

The kingdom of God is when you have His Spirit inside you as you submit to His Lordship. It cannot be conveyed simpler than that!

The Kingdom of God is simply conveyed by you, Shade? Then I put it to you that you must know a lot more than the Son of God who described it in the most complex form below so you don't make the mistake of simply conveying nonsense!

18 Then said he, Unto what is the kingdom of God like? and whereunto shall I resemble it?

19 It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it.

20 And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God?

21 It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

shadeyinka:
The kingdom of God is the domain where His will, rule, authority and presence is NOT challenged whatsoever.

I will not argue this to be incorrect in anyway whatsoever. The question here is what is "His will
authority and presence", and I am putting it to you that no Almighty God can require His creatures that He created in His very own Image to remain ignorant because God is not ignorant, and ignorant people can not be "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it, and rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground" and be empowered to say "let there be", and there is.

shadeyinka:
At present, the full expression of God's kingdom can only be in YOU until we all fully and bodily dwell in Him in paradise.

I hope you mean paradise on earth, because unless you mean die to the flesh which you are supposed to do right here on earth while you are still living, I'm going to have to pity you for the three score and ten you will be spending on this hellish earth.

shadeyinka:

As far as you are concerned, death can only be Physical and nothing else.

So, the atheist buda that I described to you above as being dead until found by God and that now lives, was not dead enough for you?

Sorry, but I think you and I are done for now. Let me know when you open your eyes and read what has been said here.

budaatum:


The Kingdom of God is simply conveyed by you, Shade? Then I put it to you that you must know a lot more than the Son of God who described it in the most complex form below so you don't make the mistake of simply conveying nonsense!

18 Then said he, Unto what is the kingdom of God like? and whereunto shall I resemble it?

19 It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it.

20 And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God?

21 It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

What can be more simple yet more complex than the Creator of the universe residing in a person?
What can be more simple than a person trusting God like a child?

budaatum:

I will not argue this to be incorrect in anyway whatsoever. The question here is what is "His will
authority and presence", and I am putting it to you that no Almighty God can require His creatures that He created in His very own Image to remain ignorant because God is not ignorant, and ignorant people can not be "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it, and rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground" and be empowered to say "let there be", and there is.

His will can be summarised as follows: LOVE!
Luk 10:27:
"And he answering said, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."

But God has not asked us to be ignorant but to know Him and let His kingdom be expressed in our lives

budaatum:

I hope you mean paradise on earth, because unless you mean die to the flesh which you are supposed to do right here on earth while you are still living, I'm going to have to pity you for the three score and ten you will be spending on this hellish earth.

I describe paradise not in terms of location but our state after our resurrection from the physical death

budaatum:

So, the atheist buda that I described to you above as being dead until found by God and that now lives, was not dead enough for you?

Sorry, but I think you and I are done for now. Let me know when you open your eyes and read what has been said here.

You will notice my dear Buda that I didn't comment on your person (whether the Dead Buda or the Living Buda).

With reference to Adam and Eve dying spiritual death versus dying Physical death, I said:

As far as you are concerned, death can only be Physical and nothing else.

The statement came up because, you insist that Adam and Eve could only die physically as a result of them eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.


If, there could be spiritual death, why couldn't Adam and Eve death be spiritual? (At least we know that their Physical death didn't take place till about 900 years after their fall)

budaatum:
Eve refused to believe what she was told

Eve was instructed to obey a simple instruction. Eve was not told to go steal another person's property

budaatum:
and decided to use her own senses to test for herself like a true scientist would, only to find out she had been lied to and she did not surely die on the day she ate it but her eyes opened and she gained Wisdom and she stopped working in someone elses garden and became self employed on her own land and went on to live 800 or so years and have many children and grandchildren.

Does that sound foolish to you?

It doesnt only sound foolish to me but it, on top, is full of bullshit and I will advise you to start a fertilizer plant

budaatum:
I'd say she was joyous, I mean she found it pleasing to the eye and she gained wisdom and asked her man to eat too. Yep, pretty joyous indeed I'd say, though likely not so much about her punishment, but then some will rather be free people than joyous subjugated slaves, so I'll understand if you disagree.

Genesis 3:16
'To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow
and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.'

Although it is not explicitly stated, just as the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil isnt explicitly called the Tree of Death, in your current state of warped and spiritually dead mind, you will never understand the multi layered conclusions, that is there, to be drawn from Genesis 3:16

1. Was Eve that joyous, she immediately and confidently shouted Eureka, after eating, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?
2. Give me an example of a demonstration of wisdom

budaatum:
No Reeves. I am not shocked that you would claim white is black. You've been doing that all along, hence

When knowledge speaks. Wisdom listens. A smart thing like the serpent, knows what to say to badly influence, but a wise person would know, whether or not to do the bad thing encouraged to go do.

A most dangerous person, is one, who listens, thinks and observes. Knowing when to walk away would have been wisdom gained by Eve, not that quasi wisdom you allege she gained. She never had the courage to walk away from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, to end up walk away with her head high, not to be covering up and hiding herself away from the presence of God

budaatum:
Woe!

Whatever you wish and say to me, will boomerang back and to return back to sender, you, a thousand fold times. So a thousands woe find and visit you there!

BassReeves:
Eve was instructed to obey a simple instruction. Eve was not told to go steal another person's property.

Instructed by whom? A god who wanted to keep her ignorant?

Then I'm very pleased she stole another person's property. Knowledge should be shared and not kept from other people like boko haram does!

BassReeves:
It doesnt only sound foolish to me but it, on top, is full of bullshit and I will advise you to start a fertilizer plant

I am content fertilizing your mind with knowledge and wisdom Reeves, even though you are proving to be barren soil.

BassReeves:
1. Was Eve that joyous, she immediately and confidently shouted Eureka, after eating, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

She seemed joyous enough to call on Adam to come share.

BassReeves:
2. Give me an example of a demonstration of wisdom.

Not spitting, is a demonstrable example of wisdom. Seeing what is before you instead of claiming a Tree of Knowledge is a tree of death is another, as is testing what you are told to believe as scientist Eve did.

BassReeves:
When knowledge speaks. Wisdom listens.

Really? Wisdom listens to knowledge? I guess you are trying to say a wise person listens to a knowledgeable person, at least, that's what a good maths teacher will do. You listen to discover what the student knows to know where to begin their lesson so you don't go teaching calculus to a student who hardly knows algebra. Is that what you mean Reeves?

BassReeves:
A smart thing like the serpent, knows what to say to badly influence, but a wise person would know, whether or not to do the bad thing encouraged to go do.

Actually, a wise person who knows would say "Did that serpent really speak!?"

BassReeves:
A most dangerous person, is one, who listens, thinks and observes. Knowing when to walk away would have been wisdom gained by Eve, not that quasi wisdom you allege she gained.

I guess you think Eve should have just listened to Adam and remain an ignorant slave, but look at her. Naughty Eve, desiring wisdom instead!

BassReeves:
She never had the courage to walk away from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, to end up walk away with her head high, not to be covering up and hiding herself away from the presence of God

Imagine. She wanted knowledge instead so she would not need to be naked and cower anymore. What an amazing Eve!

BassReeves:
Whatever you wish and say to me, will boomerang back and to return back to sender, you, a thousand fold times. So a thousands woe find and visit you there!

If I deserve it, a million. Amen.

shadeyinka:

If, there could be spiritual death, why couldn't Adam and Eve death be spiritual? (At least we know that their Physical death didn't take place till about 900 years after their fall)

They did not die spiritually either. If they had died any sort of death as promised, they would not have received the extra punishment of being cursed and cast out of heaven and bearing children because they would have been some sort of dead already, yet, we read they had children and grandchildren and lived to a very ripe old age of 930 years.

Continue

Everyman in his own order Christ the firstfruits; the head of all principalities and powers.

You are so privileged I am quoting you

budaatum:


They did not die spiritually either. If they had died any sort of death as promised, they would not have received the extra punishment of being cursed and cast out of heaven and bearing children because they would have been some sort of dead already, yet, we read they had children and grandchildren and lived to a very ripe old age of 930 years.

budaatum:


They did not die spiritually either. If they had died any sort of death as promised, they would not have received the extra punishment of being cursed and cast out of heaven and bearing children because they would have been some sort of dead already, yet, we read they had children and grandchildren and lived to a very ripe old age of 930 years.

I am sure you'll agree with me that the consequence of their eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil wasn't singular.

It included apart from spiritual death
1. Banishment from the garden
2. Hardship in surviving
3. Difficulty iñ childbirth
4. Pain and Sickness
5. Physical Death

For the sake of man, there was a preemptive slaying of the Lamb of God even before the sacrifice of Christ

shadeyinka:

I am sure you'll agree with me that the consequence of their eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil wasn't singular.

It included apart from spiritual death
1. Banishment from the garden
2. Hardship in surviving
3. Difficulty iñ childbirth
4. Pain and Sickness
5. Physical Death

While not completely agreeing with you since they obviously did not physically die till 800 years afterwards, you missed out:

1. The acquisition of knowledge
2. The acquisition of wisdom
3. The acquisition of freedom
4. The acquisition of their own land
5. A very very long existence upon the land the Lord gave to them.

Reminds me of Kunta Kinte in Roots who preferred being a free man and insisted on not being called Tobi and kept running away until his leg was chopped off. He never gained his freedom nor did generations of his offspring but he became an inspiration to many long after, just as Mary was inspired by Eve to educate her Son.

Here's a clip, but I'd recommend the book.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvitXLDz-PA

Femiblacky, please let me know if you got this.

budaatum:


While not completely agreeing with you since they obviously did not physically die till 800 years afterwards, you missed out:

1. The acquisition of knowledge
2. The acquisition of wisdom
3. The acquisition of freedom
4. The acquisition of their own land
5. A very very long existence upon the land the Lord gave to them.

Reminds me of Kunta Kinte in Roots who preferred being a free man and insisted on not being called Tobi and kept running away until his leg was chopped off. He never gained his freedom nor did generations of his offspring but he became an inspiration to many long after, just as Mary was inspired by Eve to educate her Son.

Here's a clip, but I'd recommend the book.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvitXLDz-PA

Femiblacky, please let me know if you got this.

I watched movie "Roots" when it was released!

What you've just described is that the garden of Eden was a Prison!
I beg to disagree with you.

Everything you said that gained was already theirs before their fall


Adam had knowledge to be trusted to name all the animals
Gen 2:19:
"And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them: and whatever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."

Man was given the earth (not only the garden) for him to subdue (take, bend to his will)
Gen 1:28:
"And God blessed them, and God said to them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

My dear Buda,
The Whole earth already belong to Adam and Eve as their possession.

They were 419ed by satan!

shadeyinka:

Everything you said that gained was already theirs before their fall

The Whole earth already belong to Adam and Eve as their possession.

They were 419ed by satan!

That is your belief. It is obviously untrue but you'd not open your eyes and see. Its the same way you believe what you believe instead of becoming as an unbelieving child who wonders and learns.

Here's a reminder. The peace of the Lord be upon you.

budaatum:

That is your belief. It is obviously untrue but you'd not open your eyes and see. Its the same way you believe what you believe instead of becoming as an unbelieving child who wonders and learns.

Here's a reminder. The peace of the Lord be upon you.

Didn't I give you scriptural references?

shadeyinka:

Didn't I give you scriptural references?

Don't eat the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil please. Use your belief to "be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth", and we shall see how blessed you become.

budaatum:

Don't eat the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil please. Use your belief to "be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth", and we shall see how blessed you become.

I will seek every knowledge and understanding of the Arts, Sciences, Mathematics, Philosophy, Religious and Spiritual apart from that which pitches my source of morality and dependence against God (the tree of the knowledge of good and evil).
I shall in future partake in the fruit from the tree of life.

I shall never cut off my dependence on God, for without Him, I cannot be! I am a god, only at His terms.

Above is my take!

BELIEVING devoid of knowledge is RECKLESSNESS.

Army Generals have to take life and death decisions on warfronts based on incomplete information and knowledge because they Believe in their Strategy and thus can Hope for victory!

shadeyinka:

I will seek every knowledge and understanding of the Arts, Sciences, Mathematics, Philosophy, Religious and Spiritual apart from that which pitches my source of morality and dependence against God (the tree of the knowledge of good and evil).
I shall in future partake in the fruit from the tree of life.

I shall never cut off my dependence on God, for without Him, I cannot be! I am a god, only at His terms.

Above is my take!

BELIEVING devoid of knowledge is RECKLESSNESS.

Army Generals have to take life and death decisions on warfronts based on incomplete information and knowledge because they Believe in their Strategy and thus can Hope for victory!

I have faith in you. Never assume you know. Diligently test every belief so you continue to learn. The Lord God Almighty guides you with the aid of the Holy Spirit in Jesus's Mighty Name. Amen.

budaatum:


I have faith in you. Never assume you know. Diligently test every belief so you continue to learn. The Lord God Almighty guides you with the aid of the Holy Spirit in Jesus's Mighty Name. Amen.

Amen!
And may our knowledge of all things grow with wisdom to apply them for the good of mankind.
And may we also know God fully through His Holy Spirit.

John 17:3:
"And this is life eternal, that they might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

I pray that we might indeed become a child to God in trust and obedience as one who is fortunate to be a dwelling place of God through the atonement of Christ!

1Cor 3:16:
"Know you not that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?"

Shalom my Brother!

budaatum:


While not completely agreeing with you since they obviously did not physically die till 800 years afterwards, you missed out:

1. The acquisition of knowledge
2. The acquisition of wisdom
3. The acquisition of freedom
4. The acquisition of their own land
5. A very very long existence upon the land the Lord gave to them.

Reminds me of Kunta Kinte in Roots who preferred being a free man and insisted on not being called Tobi and kept running away until his leg was chopped off. He never gained his freedom nor did generations of his offspring but he became an inspiration to many long after, just as Mary was inspired by Eve to educate her Son.

Here's a clip, but I'd recommend the book.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvitXLDz-PA

Femiblacky, please let me know if you got this.

Available

shadeyinka:

It's impossible to convince you.

The experience is Taylor made and subjective.

It is amazing that you do not realise that you are confessing that you "make crap up in your head" and are asking us to let you make crap up in our heads too, which, incidentally, was what the story of the Temptation of Christ was about, which just happened to be the reading for the first Sunday in Lent of the Church of England, which was when this conversation was held.

Satan was trying to put crap in the head of Jesus Christ the Messiah, but Christ conquered satan with the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil! No wonder he is referred to as " the way, the truth and the life".

Ref
On Subjectivity and Objectivity

budaatum:


It is amazing that you do not realise that you are confessing that you "make crap up in your head" and are asking us to let you make crap up in our heads too, which, incidentally, was what the story of the Temptation of Christ was about, which just happened to be the reading for the first Sunday in Lent of the Church of England, which was when this conversation was held.

Satan was trying to put crap in the head of Jesus Christ the Messiah, but Christ conquered satan with the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil! No wonder he is referred to as " the way, the truth and the life".

Ref
On Subjectivity and Objectivity

An experience is not the same as imagination. Except you think they mean the same thing!

shadeyinka:

An experience is not the same as imagination. Except you think they mean the same thing!

And I bet you will claim it is not you doing the imagining of experiences you never had, yet, see you imagining one said anything at all about either.

I swear my head is falling off from the experience of shaking so vigorously at you and it has nothing to do with my imagination.

If you experience a hammer hitting your head, is it your imagination?

budaatum:


And I bet you will claim it is not you doing the imagining of experiences you never had, yet, see you imagining one said anything at all about either.

I swear my head is falling off from the experience of shaking so vigorously at you and it has nothing to do with my imagination.

If you experience a hammer hitting your head, is it your imagination?

Enter the Matrix: then you will see!

.

shadeyinka:

Enter the Matrix: then you will see!

As in, stop using my brain and let myself be brainwashed?

I reject such nonsense in the Mighty Name of Jesus Christ the Lord of my Salvation.

budaatum:


As in, stop using my brain and let myself be brainwashed?

I reject such nonsense in the Mighty Name of Jesus Christ the Lord of my Salvation.

When you truely know, you'll experience the world superimposed on this world.

LOL!
Buda, seek and you shall find!

On a lighter note:
I remember the first time I attempted deliverance: it was a dissaster. The demonized woman grabbed me by my collars and with her eyes tightly shut, she was screaming

"Who called you into this matter!?"
"Go fight your own battles!"....

It took the combined effort of the brethren to rescue me from her clutch!

That night, I prayed my heart out to God!
I wasn't living in sin!
Lord why this "humiliation"?...
Why would a demon refuse to heed my command?...

.....


Imagination!?
LOL!!

The Christian life is full of experiences dear. When you Trust, you get to learn. When you learn, you begin to know!

Even Paul had to say:

Phil 3:10:
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable to his death;"

And some people will say: "he's only imagining things!!"
"He's been brainwashed!!!!"

buda always seeks, shade. It is precisely why buda never ever believes that buda knows, because it just might be the satan deceiving one with a matrix.

But you know what? I'm going to watch it again as it has been a long time, and the credit for that is yours. Thanks. And for this thread too, because every word that buda wrote in it was because buda had to seek.

shadeyinka:

When you truely know, you'll experience the world superimposed on this world.

LOL!
Buda, seek and you shall find!

On a lighter note:
I remember the first time I attempted deliverance: it was a dissaster. The demonized woman grabbed me by my collars and with her eyes tightly shut, she was screaming

"Who called you into this matter!?"
"Go fight your own battles!"....

It took the combined effort of the brethren to rescue me from her clutch!

That night, I prayed my heart out to God!
I wasn't living in sin!
Lord why this "humiliation"?...
Why would a demon refuse to heed my command?...

.....


Imagination!?
LOL!!

The Christian life is full of experiences dear. When you Trust, you get to learn. When you learn, you begin to know!

Even Paul had to say:

Phil 3:10:
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable to his death;"

And some people will say: "he's only imagining things!!"
"He's been brainwashed!!!!"