₦airaland Forum

Richirich713:
The problem with this is u guys are picking illustrations that u believe represents the trinity completely.

I could easily say 1x1x1=1 but this can't be used as a argument cuz its a false illustration to say God is a number of mathematics and his nature obeys the rules of maths.

You can understand what you observe with Mathematics. You can rightly express a sentence with Mathematics. Everything said about the Trinity is better expressed in that way, just as it's expressed in words and sentence(s). It's not about God following some rules. We are saying the same thing in different ways.

trapQ:
I think the other disciple that replaced him went to heaven in place of Judas. Judas couldn't have gone to heaven because he comitted suicide. I may be wrong tho.

Yeah. Especially when Paul came into scene.

ayoku777:
Look at this scripture;

Matthew 26v24 -The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! IT HAD BEEN GOOD FOR THAT MAN IF HE HAD NOT BEEN BORN.

Jesus said concerning the person who would betray Him; that it would have been better for him not to have been born.

The only scenario under which it would be better for someone not to have been born, is if the person ends up in the lake of fire.

No matter the adversity that befalls a man in this life, and no matter the loss he suffers in the age to come; as long as he still makes heaven, then it is still good that he was born.

Only someone who ends up in the lake of fire can be said that, it were better for him not to have been born. And that is what Jesus used to quality the person who would betray Him.

About that verse you quoted;

Matthew 19v28 -And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, YE ALSO (Judas inclusive) shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Judas was obviously included in this promise of Jesus, because he was still among the twelve when Jesus said "ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones".

But this just goes to show that we all have a part to play in the fulfilment of God's promises over our life. That God promised us something doesn't mean it will happen whether we like it or not.

I always say this; Pre-destination is not cast in iron. Even Jesus Christ; even though He was "the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the earth" (Rev 13v8); He still needed to voluntarily submit His will to the will of His Father for what was written concerning Him to be fulfilled.

Whether what God has promised us or destined us for would be fulfilled or not is up to us.

Judas did not keep the faith, he didn't follow to the end. He went his own way; the way of perdition -by betraying the Son of man. And Jesus said it were better for him not to have been born.

The only scenario that would make it better for someone not to have been born was if that person ended up in the lake of fire.

Shalom

Whether the fufillment of destiny lays upon men or not, the Bible tells clearly that God knows the end from the beginning Isa 46:9

No matter how hard Moses would try God had known Pharoah wouldn't let His people go. He told this to Moses before sending him at all Exd 4:19

No matter how hard Satan struck Job God knew he would remain steadfast. That's why He was confident in him and allowed Satan his way. Job 2:3-6

Even when Peter was sure of his steadfastness Jesus knew he would deny him three times John 13:38

And even before Judas fell Jesus knew, as the Bible says.

So why did He put himself in the risk of turning out to be a false prophet (which eventually happened)?

Richirich713:
Instead of addressing the verses malvisguy212 posted , people are giving their illustrations of wat the trinity is.

No1 telling us who is the "us" or y jesus used "name" singular.

The thing is, the verses do nothing to help. It's just him telling us more about the Trinity, and the idea is being proven wrong, not the verses per say.

malvisguy212:
genesis1:26
Then God said, "Let us make mankind in
our image, in our likeness...

The verse say "US" and then went on to say "IMAGE" if God is three separate being, the verse should've say images.

Isaiah 6:8
Then I heard the voice of the
Lord, saying, "Whom shall I send,
and who will go for US?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send
me!"

The verse say "WHOM SHALL I SEND" (ONE GOD) and the verse continue "WHO WILL GO FOR US" (three personalities)

There is nothing special about the singularity and plurality in those verses. Changing and swapping from singularity to plurality is common in the Bible. For example..

Hosea 11

11 “When Israel was a child, I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son. 2 As they called them, So they went from them; They sacrificed to the Baals, And burned incense to carved images.

Psalm 34

17 The righteous cry out, and theLord hears them; he delivers them from all their troubles.18 TheLord is close to the broken hearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit.19 The righteous person may have many troubles, but the Lord delivers him from them all;20 he protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken.21 Evil will slay the wicked;the foes of the righteous will be condemned.22 The Lord will rescue his servants; no one who takes refugein him will be condemned.

Bottom line: plurality and singularity do nothing in solving this rebuttal.

The Bible makes it abundantly clear that God exists as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. However,these three persons are not three separate gods, but ONE GOD. This
Trinitarian concept of God might seem to be contradictory from a HUMAN
standpoint, but is perfectly logical from
GOD'S EXTRADIMENSIONAL EXISTENCE. Anti-
Trinitarian heresies elevate
humans to the level of God or demote
one or more persons of the Godhead to
non-God status. Don't fall into one of
those traps!

"Go therefore and make disciples of all
the nations, baptizing them in the name
of the Father and the Son and the Holy
Spirit" (Matthew 28:19)

How do you try to defend what is only logical from God's extrademensional existence?

Jozzy4:
Beautiful Analysis , @ Proton

The funniest part is that according to this people , God while on earth is actually praying to another God .

and that one God was kiiled on the cross after committing his spirit to another God.

Who will define this best for us?

" The Christian doctrine of the Trinity (from Latin trinit as "triad", from trinus "threefold" defines God as three consubstantial persons, expressions, or hypostases: the Father, the Son (JesusChrist), and the Holy Spirit; "one God in three persons". THE THREE PERSONS ARE DISTINCT, YET ARE ONE "SUBSTANCE, ESSENCE OR NATURE."


"...and in their relations with one another, they are stated to be one in all else, co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial, and "each is God, whole and entire"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C7593127051

We can deduce that GOD is the combination of Yahweh, Jesus and the Holy Spirit:


GOD = Yahweh + Jesus + Holy Spirit

That is you can't have one separately and call it a God on one hand. If the three make up God you can't have Jesus separately as God (so you may wish to call him the son of God in this case) as in:

Except for hydrogen, an atom basically contains neutron, proton and electron.

ATOM = neutron + proton + electron

When one of its components is missing it ceases to become an atom, espcially when it's proton or electron (when they are not equal in quantities, too) and you can't call a separate proton (or any one of the constituents) an atom..... same case with Jesus.

Bottom line: this part defines God in three persons. Wherever God is mentioned the three constituents are the referrals. Only one of the constituents can not be God.

• But some Christians (like ORIENTNIGERIA, OLAADEGBU, Scholar8200 who recently did) would tell you the three Godheads can exist as a person and still be God, rightly as the internally-contradicting definition of Trinity tells. And that makes matters more complex and absurd. Remember when Jesus was praying to the Father about letting the cup pass him? That's God and God talking! Two Gods! If there is only one God then one of the characterS is not a God, but they say they are all God! Gods!:

GOD = Yahweh = Jesus = Holy Spirit

Yahweh is a God!
Jesus is a God!
Holy Spirit is a God!

Yeah, three in one, but ACTUALLY three Gods working as One! And the idea of Trinity breaks down Christian monotheism (the belief in one God) They don't believe in one God; they believe in three Gods working together as One.

Scholar8200:
And David who you are trying to equate with Jesus said:

The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand,
until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Psalm 110:1

And Jesus Himself said:
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 8:58

For better understanding consider:
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
John17:5
Notice that He didnt say, "glory which I had FROM Thee" as would have been said by a creature!

And John tells us accentuating the above:
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

These corrects the error highlighted.

...and points out the affirmation of two gods.

Richirich713:
The made up no lies , they told the truth

Which points to your ignorance, too, about who the Messiah was to be.

Richirich713:
I'm pretty sure jesus knew much more than u about wat the scriptures taught about the messiah.

And I'm pretty sure paul,peter,john,matthew etc knew much more than u about the bible.

If they did know more about the Messiah then they deliberately made up a lie to deceive the mass.

Afterlife talks.. Johnydon22 it's about time we revisited our childhood days fantasies. We await your arrival

plappville:
So many people are finding it difficult to embrace God cause of the trinity dogma. If the apostles Peter standing in front of Christ prophessed that Jesus was the "son of God" and Christ appreciated him for that. Why should I over read meaning to the scripture ? Isn't this an occasion for Christ to have said he was God? It's difficult to explain this TRINITY doctrine to children. Its this Christ aim to make it difficult for men to understand him and his Father? next person that will come here to reply me will say. (Oh yes you need the holy spirit to reveal the trinity to you). Some church are diverting Christ teaching. The Messiah was to be a man not God. And the Prophet Moses promised the Israelites should be a man not God. He must be like MOSES. Not half God.

Of course.. the Messiah prophesied in the OT was to be an anointed person just as Saul, David, Solomon etc were. But early Christians didn't want to be left out from the supernatural birth, dying and rising gods myths going around then lest their growing religion gets cut-off or becomes less successful. So they had to add some spice by distorting OT texts and prophecies to suit their fabrigated story of a son of God borne by a virgin who died for sins and got resurrected and who was also the Messiah.

plappville:
Did Jesus teach the trinity? Something you said it's beyond mens understanding, why teaching it to men?

He must find a cause for sending us to hell, and there is no better way than that.

edogho:
Viewing this topic: Pr0ton

Guy, where be u? U and Weah and AtheistD?

missed ur wahala but please wait, don't start yet. let him continue cos I know u like samsard hate pseudoscience.

macof
folykaze
ifeness

I know this will interest you, come join the audience here.

Lol. I wasn't actually viewing. I only clicked and then got chatting on whatsapp through the notification bar. I'm still trying to understand his second post tho.

true2god:
You are an infidel, how dare you mock\question our beloveth prophet mohammed (shitt be upon him)? In my religion the wholly prophet said, 'there is no compulsion in religion' and he also said 'you have your religion and I have mine'. So why bother yourselve with my religion you kafir.

He flew on a horse to aljannah because you infidels are yet to manugacture aircraft then. Besides he has no need of visa to meet allahh in aljannah. What is your stress?

Our beloveth prophet is in aljannah enjoying his share of clean virgins having serves allahh very well. Whether you infidels like it, or not, you can never stop the spread of my religion around the world, islam is the fastest growing religion. And very soon all human being will be muslims and whoever refuses to accept allahh and his messenger (shitt be upon him), will die or pay the jizya (quran 9:29).

allahu snacks-bar.

Common to all religion bigots, they post crap when fraustrated. Get calm and rethink, "do I really believe this or I just feel the need to believe? Why would a God kill others for not worshipping him? In this vast huge universe of what concern are human actions to God? WHY should I believe the prophet? Why has Allah not clearly beyond doubt manifested himself to the world to believe? Why is my belief based on papers?"

SaintHephzibah:
unfortunately the earth shall be burned up with a great and fervent heat and there shall be no place for them.
The Creator who created it will do it and there shall not be any man who shall question Him or withstand Him. Never

ECCL 1:4

One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

David0:
Am sorry, but I think ur so wrong about d sabbath.
Where was d sabbath changed in d Bible to mean eternal rest even though d disciplines kept d sabbath even after d holy spirit came upon them.
Pls don't b d devil.

This should be for ORIENTNIGERIA. He claimed that, not me.

That you may suck his d!ck all the days of your sexlife...

mum won't tell you that, let alone a pastor.

Whether the Sabbath is on Sunday or Saturday is of no issue between you and me, but the purpose of the Sabbath - to rest from works. I would have quoted out incidents that point to the physical work as the work to rest from, but as you've said the OT is the shadow of the NT I'd change the direction.

There are believers who believe the OT and reject the NT - Judaism. They believe the NT's claim about its 'reforming' and fulfiling the OT is false, and that the NT has distorted most of the passage/verses it quotes from the OT, which I agree with. One of the many examples is Psalm 68:18:

When you ascended to the heights, you led a crowd of captives. You received gifts from the people, even from those who rebelled against you. Now the LORD God will live among us there.

Which Paul distorts as

That is why the Scriptures say, "When he ascended to the heights, he led a crowd of captives and gave gifts to his people." Eph 4:8

His intention is obvious. Psalm is apparently talking about a 'God of war' who leads captives and gets gifts from people. But Paul distorted this verse to mean 'give out gifts' in order to support his theology of Jesus giving gifts (of the Holy Spirit) to men as seen in the succeeding verses.

So it's not gonna be surprising if the writer of Hebrews, just like you, distorts the meaning of the Sabbath or gives it a new meaning to nulify its original meaning and introduce a new doctrine, even when the God of the OT affirms that He never changes.

But this can help... Maybe you should come up with a verse from the OT that confirms that the meaning of its Sabbath will be changed to mean 'eternal rest' in association with anyone called Jesus on the long run and then you'd eventually start making sense and I'd reconsider my rebuttal.


As to the verses you quoted which all seem to point to Jesus as God for real only made matter worse because you're actually bringing out more proof to confirm the contradictions that exist in the so-called perfect word of a perfect God.

Let's still use the verse you cleverly ignored to contradict/tell wrong the verses that you quoted to point to Jesus as God.

9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is God Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Who is the other God exalting Jesus? Who is the other God giving Jesus a name? Since you said "there is only one God and his name is Jesus".

I initially didn't want to reply your post. I thought it was some copy-and-paste post when I saw the long 'time' I was supposed to read until I bothered myself reading anyway.

ORIENTNIGERIA

Warrisdis

Dopeyomi:
how does that add to ur GP?



:-(

See question.. How life jae?

cassyrooy:
Arh! Get well bro.


i'm really tired and bored now sef.

Thanks.. tired and bored are the two words here too.

Scholar8200:
Israel still exists today. Do they relate (positively or negatively) with this historical event?

If people outside Israel today can relate positively why can't they? There will always be a Thomas too, even in Israel.

I'd always long to read comprehensively about the Milky Way and going through that just gave me most of the answers I'd been looking for. Interestingly explanatory. It's lovely.

The analogy/comparism of a dirt of dust to the whole of America is incredibly huge. We are less than insignificant in our own galaxy let alone the distant billions BILLIONS of galaxies out there, in the visible universe. And it's far reasonable to say there is a possibility of life elsewhere our planet and the possibility of super intelligent 'beings' which if exist will do as Dr. Michio Kaku says, "Their attitude toward us might resemble our own attitude toward an ant hill. Our inclination is not to bend down and offer the ants beads and trinkets, but simply to ignore them.”

OLAADEGBU:
There is what we call internal evidence as well as external evidence. One of the valid ways you can prove that Obama is living in the White House is by looking into the White House.

That is not always applicable.. Since a book that says 'dragons exist' can't be held true merely by looking into it.

Scholar8200

I didn't read all that, but reading 1 and 2 and some part in 3 made me conclude the rest could turn out a waste of time.

'Stolen By The Disciples' being presented as evidence could be absurd than much as you think it is to think it is. It 'could' be one successful and popular misconception or fabrigated hearsay from which those 'facts' are buildt off, and consequently render the 'facts' shaky or worst fallacy. More? It is believed by some. And if it were true, it's not the type of evidence one can hold against any one who can't just buy it; it's not rational enough, same as 2 isn't rational enough to present as evidence for s
uch a claim. They are the "save-me evidence" one can run to when in short of real/tangible evidence.

OLAADEGBU:
Since people believe it to be true then you look at the evidence they provide. No one believes fairies are true and that is why you will not see people looking for evidence for it's existence.

What you have provided isn't worth evidence. How can you make contradicting edited self-attesting history-conflicting copies upon copies of anonymous manuscripts an imperative evidence for a delicate claim? It doesn't work that way. If the evidence was true there would be no argument today just as there is none about the year Nigeria gained independence. The 'evidence' provided has been debunked, proven to be false, invented and forged.

But we can always have delusioned individuals, which is reasonably common to those with religion.

babseg:
Any ancient story will always have an atom of truth

Of course.. at least there were people called Jesus.

Scholar8200:
11 Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.
12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,
13 saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept.
14 And if this come to the governor’s ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.
15 So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.
Matthew 28:11-15

If He never rose, there would never have been a need for this conspiracy! The elders knew the tomb was empty hence they had to act fast to stop more people from believing on Him!
Besides, the disciples were broken, frightened and holed up in a room in Jerusalem for fear of their lives, hence it is ridiculous to assume 11 men in that condition will overcome a group of fully armed soldiers, roll away a very heavy stone and steal the Body!!!

Found in no other place than the Bible.

OLAADEGBU:
The reason why you are not asking for the evidence of the fairies depicted in the picture I posted above is because they do not exist.

But how do you compare this with a story that people openly claim to be true and warn others of the danger of hell if they do not believe it too?

Using the content of a book to confirm its credibility and actuality is, yeah, as sensible as it seems.