₦airaland Forum

taretoofine:
What 32 years . Do people still live in Sumatra ?
I've always know there for tsunamis and earthquakes

Sumatra is actually a very large island, as big as Cameroon. And the number of its population is comparable to South Africa. Economically, if Sumatra were an african country, it would be the third largest economy in the continent just behind South Africa.

Indonesia is made up of massive islands.

Asia unicorns: A list to watch

Asia Pacific is home to over one-third of start-up unicorns in the world. A unicorn is a start-up company with a valuation of at least $1 billion. According to data from CB Insight, there are over 400 unicorns worldwide – 140 of which are found in Asia Pacific.

The number of unicorns in Asia is growing exponentially. In 2018, the number rocketed to 115 companies, and hit 140 by the end of September, 2019.

https://www.asiafundmanagers.com/int/asia-unicorns-a-list-to-watch-2019/

Cousin9999:
The rest of Asia only knows of Indonesians as house slaves. People from a thriving economy generally don't jump at the chance to be a servant, and they definitely wouldn't go to toilets like China to do it if they did.

That's a matter of perception and stereotype, but it would not change the fact that Indonesia's economy is thriving, the member of trillion dollar economy and G20.

Our Africa is also misunderstood as poverty-stricken, full of corruption, and always at war. But is that true?

Cousin9999:
Indonesia is a popular resource for human trafficking and domestic labor. All throughout the rest of Asia you find Indonesian housekeepers.

Indonesia is far from being the source for human trafficking, not even close.

As for the domestic labor, due to its rapid growing economy, since 2015 Indonesia has banned its people to work as domestic workers in more than 20 countries.

Indonesia is not even among the world's top remittance recipients.

Surabaya will be very beautiful every year end as the tabebuia plants will be blossoming!

Surabaya, Indonesia's second largest city

Population: 2.9 million

GDP Nominal: US$ 41.2 billion

Per Capita Income: US$ 14,200

Surabaya Juanda International Airport is certified as a 3-Star Regional Airport by Skytrax. In 2019, it served 21 million passengers

Tanjung Perak Port is the world's 47th largest container port with total annual container throughput was 3,865,646 teu in 2018.

Surabaya's university, Airlangga University is ranked #521-530 in QS Global World Rankings 2021.

It also has one of the longest bridges in the region.

Its tallest building is One Icon Residence with 52 floors (215 meters)

According to Indonesia laws, death penalty could be imposed in this case.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/juliari-batubara-indonesian-social-affairs-minister-corruption-13710796

jln115:
I said our GDP per capita will be double that than Indonesia by 2050 this is supported by the PWC report I gave you which you continually dismiss because it doesn't suite your opinion..... and yes even though their growth rate will be higher, due to their larger population and population growth SA will have a larger GDP per capita........simple mathematics

Also what economic drivers do you want me to list? Retail? Finance? Manufacturing?

Oh not again with that 2050 projection. You are well aware that the projection was made long before the pandemic. Every body with sanity will dismiss your so called projection.

In 80s, everyone talked about how Japan would dwarf USA economically despite having smaller population. But it never happens because the lost decades Japan suffered in 90s until now. SA will be no different given your 0.1%-1% economic growth yearly.

jln115:
I meant by 2050..... I said in an early post that Indonesia and SA are very similar in terms of wealth per capita(SA is slightly ahead) and GDP per capita (Indonesia slightly ahead)

Secondly Lpi rankings:
SA 33th
Indonesia:46th

Wait, are you saying that South Africa's growth will double Indonesia's? You are already left by Indonesia, and Vietnam, Philippines and Bangladesh are easily outpacing SA with min. 6% growths.

What are your economic drivers again? You haven't answered that.

When you have at least 5% economic growth annually for the next two decades, you may talk about how in 2050 SA would still be slightly richer than asian countries.

But for now, to make sure SA's population growth rate to be lower than its economic growth would be our concern. Not to mention your inequality issues and crime problems.

Tell me what kind of future a country would hold when the country is crowded, no working economic drivers and inequal?

jln115:
SA is actually ahead of Indonesia in terms of GDPppp per capita, wealth per capita, infrastructure ect ect and that Gap is set to widen according to PWC............or are you more knowledgeable than PWC?

GDP Per Capita (PPP) (IMF)

Indonesia: US$12.345
South Africa: US$ 11.911

Quality of overall infrastructure (World Bank)

Indonesia: ranked 68
South Africa: ranked 72

Human Development Index (HDI) (UN)

Indonesia: 0.707
South Africa: 0.705

Accumulated Economic Growth in the last 5 years(2015-2019)

Indonesia: 25.2%
South Africa: 3.9%

Population Growth Rate (latest figures)

Indonesia: 1.1%
South Africa: 1.4%

I still don't understand why you should lie to cover up your country's deteriorated economic performances.

Admit it, and we can discuss constructively how to overcome this because a wealthier SA will be beneficial for the rest of Africa.

With no economic drivers, with 0%-1% economic growth, South Africa will still be slightly richer forever than Bangladesh or Vietnam? SA's population growth rate is even much higher than its economic growth.

When we are hurt, it is acceptable if we are being denial. It takes time to mend with the bitter truth.

jln115:
You are bringing up irrelevant statistics since I never argued that the SAn economy was growing faster than the above mentioned countries, simply stated that per capita SA will be widening the gap....which makes sense since our population is smaller and it doesn't take such a high growth rate to increase our GDP per capita as it is for larger populations.... Hopefully the pic would help you understand

I have asked you many times what South Africa's main economic drivers that would make it will be widening the gap to asian countries. If your argument is "oh it's because SA population grows smaller than asian countries". No, it is not. In fact, SA grows faster population wise.

Just because you have smaller population doesn't mean that larger countries are uncapable to have larger per capita income. Ever heard of China? A country with persistent high growth for at least 3 decades?

If SA continues to grow within the range 0%-1%, it means its economic drivers are not working at all.

Now, let's compare SA's economic growth to asian countries which have comparable HDI.

Bangladesh GDP Growth Rate 2015 - 2019 (HDI: 0.614)

2015: 6.8%
2016: 7.2%
2017: 7.8%
2018: 8.0%
2019: 7.8%

Vietnam GDP Growth Rate 2015 - 2019 (HDI: 0.693)

2015: 6.9%
2016: 6.7%
2017: 6.9%
2018: 7%
2019: 7%

Philippines GDP Growth Rate 2015 - 2019 (HDI: 0.712)

2015: 6.0%
2016: 6.9%
2017: 6.6%
2018: 6.2%
2019: 5.9%

Indonesia GDP Growth Rate 2015 - 2019 (HDI: 0.707)

2015: 5%
2016: 5%
2017: 5%
2018: 5.2%
2019: 5%

South Africa GDP Growth Rate 2015 - 2019 (HDI: 0.705)

2015: 1.2%
2016: 0.4%
2017: 1.4%
2018: 0.8%
2019: 0.1%

SA's economy has been bleeding even before the pandemic, but someone here is still in delusional believe that his country would still be slightly forever richer than asian countries.

In 2020, SA is expected to contract by -8% which means your economy size would fall to its 2006-2007 level.

He even never mentioned his country's main economic drivers.

As for the population growth, South Africa has produced more babies in percentage compared to its asian competitors.

From World Bank
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.GROW?end=2019&locations=BD-VN-ID-ZA&start=2010&view=chart

But he insisted to accept "a projection" rather than to see the factual data.

jln115:
SMH.... that's just for 2020...countries like Indonesia, Vietnam ect ect are expected to have a much faster growth rate over the next 30 years than SA, SAs population growth on the other hand is expected to slow in the next 30 years to 0.3% pa in fact....so yeah the SA population is expected to grow much slower than the countries you mentioned..... Just check the 2050 population projections vs current population to see for yourself..... Its simple math, even you should be able to do it.

Do you even understand what you are talking about?

Good luck for your 3% at best growth achieved TWICE in 12 years while asian countries keep growing minimum 5% yearly!

jln115:
Population growth Indonesia 2020 - 2050 = 11%
Vietnam = 14%
South Africa = 6.7%

So tell me how did you come to the conclusion that SAs population is growing faster than that of Indonesia and Vietnam??

Also if you want to see what growth the SAn economy will have in the next 20 years just check the report I gave you

Are you kidding or are you just trying to save your face?

Is that how you measure population growth rate?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/344rank.html

I am not sure if I am exchanging messages with an educated adult or not at the moment. One of the keys to success is to acknowledge own's weakness then fix it. Being denial and defensive should be avoided because it is not productive.

jln115:
In the long term the pandemic has changed very little wrt economic outlooks..........that is the fact you are struggling to grasp!!

And the current growth by Asian countries like Bangladesh, Indonesia, Vietnam ect ect is driven mostly by population growth..........It literally states this exact fact in the PWC report I gave you! SA will continually stay ahead and in fact widen the gap wrt GDP per capita in the foreseeable future.

FYI in the last 10 years the SA economy has grown by over 3% annually twice....get your facts straight before spewing nonsense.

Wow! Congrats for barely growing over 3% TWICE in the last 12 years. Can't wait to see what happen to SA in the next 20 years with that low growth.

In terms of population rate, SA grows faster than Vietnam and Indonesia. That's now how we create wealth as far as I know.

jln115:
I never said SA is a beacon of light which all African countries should follow, I simply stated that compared to the rest of Africa SA is decades ahead, and will be until at least 2050, in fact by 2050 SAs GDP per capita would be double that of the Philippines and still be higher than that of Indonesia

That's not a fact, that's just a mere PROJECTION made WAY BEFORE pandemic.

I understand that you are in denial phase, then after some time you will make peace with it then accepting the fact.

With its current growth, asian countries such as Bangladesh and Vietnam will outpace SA's per capita income too just in 10 years. Just do your math. Indonesia's per capita income in PPP has already surpassed SA's anyway, and that with its much larger population.

Now I ask you. What are SA main economic drivers? You haven't answered this.

While SA is still a developing country, it never grew beyond 3% in the last 12 years. On the other hand, asian countries keep growing above 5%. No wonder the economic gap between SA and asian countries get narrower yearly.

If you think SA will always be slightly richer than asian countries forever with its current growth, I want to ask your professor how he/she taught you.

jln115:
And you are overestimating the economic impact covid19 has had on the world economy.....even the South African economy is already projected to grow by 4% in 2021, the JSE has been solid the last couple of month

Also if you didn't know the S&P 500 closed on a record high on Friday .... So much for your flawed opinion thinking economic power is shifting east

4% growth is not something we should proud of. Philippines has grown above 6% annually in the last 10 years, but it is still dubbed as the sick man from Asia. The competition in Asia is very fierce and crazy.

While we are here embracing the mediocrity.

South Africa's per capita income was 8 times higher than Indonesia's back in 2000. But now it is neck to neck to Indonesia's, in just over a 20 years span.

If you do not see anything wrong with that, then good luck for the next 20 years.

jln115:
yeah and PWC used imagination to come up with there report ..... I'm definitely now convinced that a random dude on NL is more qualified and knowledgeable than the 2nd largest professional services network in the world.

I don't think that you are that clueless to understand that the "projection" was made long before the pandemic. I honestly think that you must understand that this pandemic has changed the world significantly, especially regarding the fact that the centre of gravity of world economic power continues shifting eastwards. That's a hard fact that you cannot deny.

If PwC were to make its new projection, it would totally be different than what it has made 3 or 5 years ago.

Or are you saying that as a logical creature we should rely our future on "projection"? Seriously?

jln115:
Luckily I'm not basing my statements on my personal beliefs like you but actual studies

Well, my "personal beliefs" is actually supported by factual data. SA doesn't have enough drivers to propel its economy to grow faster than asian countries. Its credit ratings admittedly suck too. Let alone its economic growth that cannot even compete with Bangladesh'. And how is your GINI index again? Among the worst in the world. Is that a nation that we truly want to create? A nation that is unequal and violent?

There are lots of success stories from Asia, but why we keep being denial to learn a thing or two from them?

What are the economic drivers of SA that would make it keeps growing healthily in the long run? Well, just look at the credit ratings

S&P / Moody's / Fitch

SA: BB- / Ba2 / BB-
India: BBB- / Baa3 / BBB-
Indonesia: BBB / Baa2 / BBB

That projection by PwC was made long before the pandemic. I firmly believe Bangladesh and Vietnam could be the economic giants, larger than SA's economy, in 3-5 years.

With its current growth, Indonesia will totally leave South Africa in the dust in 3 years only.

Economic growth (IMF projections for 2020)
Indonesia: -1.5%
South Africa: -8%

Per capita income (IMF projections 2020)
South Africa: US$ 4,736
Indonesia: US$ 4,038

Unemployment rate
Indonesia: 4.84%
South Africa: 23.3%

FDI (2019)
Indonesia: US$ 28.2 billion
South Africa: US$ 4.6 billion

HDI
Indonesia: 0.707
South Africa: 0.705

Thailand has been richer than SA. I'm afraid if there is another asian country that will surpass the richest african country, that would be Indonesia. Soon, Philippines, Vietnam and Bangladesh may surpass SA too. And here we are still reluctant to admit our failures to acknowledge our weaknesses. We need to wake up!

jln115:
According to Times Higher Education World University Rankings 2021 SA has 9 Universities in the top 1000, India 33, Indonesia only 1 (ranked 800-1000), Malaysia 9........................out of these three countries South Africa has the highest ranking university namely UCT. In terms of Universities in the top 1000 per capita to the population only Malaysia ranks higher than SA.....India and Indonesia per capita rank much much lower.

Singapore is an Island with 5,6 million people, so I don't understand the relevance of why you included Singapore.

There are at least 22 african countries with population fewer than Singapore's, but none of them having reputation like Singapore has, not even close.

jln115:
Malaysia I would agree in some instances but not Indonesia

Even in some indicators, SA has lost to India and even Bangladesh.

According to QS, the best african university in 2021 is University of Cape Town, ranked 220 in the world. While asian best university, National University of Singapore ranked 11. Can we see the gap?

Or if Singapore is way too advanced for us to play catch up game, developing asian countries such as Malaysia, India and Indonesia do have much better university than ours.

https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2021

We have been left in the game. I previously thought Ethiopia would save our face in terms of development, but after seeing the current news I doubt if we could have our own version of "african tigers" story.

jln115:
Cool story bro!! and just fyi ports and airports are part of logistic infrastructure as well............well done on destroying your own argument

I know that. I was using the data of ports and airports because we can easily compare them between countries. There are many indicators to assess a country's infrastucture such as water supply, electricity, schools and hospitals and so on. Infrastructure is not only about logistics. And if we look at closer to the data, emerging asian countries like Malaysia or Indonesia are clearly ranked better than SA.

jln115:
https://lpi.worldbank.org/international/global

I thought we were talking about overall infrastructure, not limited to logistics only.

LPI = Logistics Performance Index. As its name suggests, it mainly assesses a logistic performance of a country, not its overall infrastructure.

Overall, Malaysia's and Indonesia's infrastructure are well above SA's.

Take the size of our ports for instance, asian ports like the ones in Indonesia, Vietnam or Philippines are larger than any african ports. We don't even have a single african port in top 50.

https://www.worldshipping.org/about-the-industry/global-trade/top-50-world-container-ports

Or if you look at the top 50 busiest air routes in the world, almost all of them are in Asia, no african airports to be seen in that list.

Asia is the next global hegemon. If we want to develop, we should rely our future on asian countries such as India, China and Indonesia. Europe won't be there to help us out of poverty.

jln115:
With all South Africa's problems its still decades ahead compared to the rest of Africa (excl small countries like Mauritius which only has 1.2m)..........even in terms of infrastructure SA ranks ahead of Indonesia and Malaysia, in terms of HDI SA is equal to Indonesia but behind Malaysia, in terms of GDP per capita SA is equal to Indonesia but behind Malaysia, in terms of Wealth again SA is ahead of Indonesia but behind Malaysia but not by much.

Indonesia's infrastructure is well ahead of SA's, that's for sure.

https://tcdata360.worldbank.org/indicators/h2cf9f9f8

That's quite an achievement considering Indonesia's geographical features which is the largest archipelago in the world.

HallaDaTruth:
I blame the Nigerians who work there. I WILL RATHER REMAIN JOBLESS THAN TO EVER WORK FOR ANY ASIAN DEVIL.

I work here in Jakarta. Previously my company employed many Indians and Australians, but since the pandemic many have been forced to work at home. I am a black woman, but I think Indonesians are the sweetest people on earth. I feel much safer here than in my home country.