₦airaland Forum

kimco: he's getting there, not quite there yet. Other ninjas have shown better feats than him in terms of battle smartness...this is why i say so. Yes i'm debating dat. Lol.

He test things out, that gud. But against characters like pain, he'll be dead during the testing. Did u not see how kakuzu nearly mauled him till kakashi came to his rescue...had he been alone...considering there was no plot no jutsu...kakuzu would've had him dere. shikamaru's character is what i call a wonderfully made character. Makes use of his resources, has logic backing his plans etc. He can think on the go as well, asuma praised him for that, even kakashi, when he was a ble to device a plan on the go when he kakashi had jux joined. I disagree with u extremely on ur last point. Battle smart? Shikamaru takes it over naruto big tym. Kakashi has shown such feats as well. The whole of akatsuki bar hidan have shown incredible prowess on that front too. Shikaku, orochimaru..too many to mention. Let's the naruto bias stop with u nowwwwww. Amen.

Ihedinobi: More or less what I expected you to say Naruto screwed up in his fight with Nagato, yes, but did you ever think to ask why? That, I strongly believe, would help you understand him a bit more.

Yes, he's all passion and craziness, but Naruto is one of the battle-smartest Shinobi in this manga You really wanna debate that? He's the sort of guy that, in my own coinage, thinks on his feet. He tests things because he can't be bothered to merely think them through. He can't think up a strategy until he's in a fight but when he's in one, Shikamaru would come a distant second to him in smarts. I kid you not.

kimco: First part...he might....but dats a pointless argument cos he's not.

Second part: he didn't run away from ibiki....he run away from a group of elite konoha ninja led by ibiki. Plus he was young and not as experienced as he is now. He's not stupid he knows it best not to fight...why risk fighting when might not even win. He even told ibiki that they shud try and fight anoda tym if they meet again.

Third part: kakashi didn't know too much about kisame but knew of itachi, his credentials etc. Why fear someone u know almost nothing about as compared to the other whose skills u know about. And yes! Kisamee fighting techniques draw too much attention and can drag on...but he would drain u dry, dats for sure. Itachi's however are subtle things like tsukiyomi as we saw, it ends the battles quickly. That's why kisame agreed with him. And that why i agree with them.

firestar: Um...gents...?
It's [size=14pt]out[/size] and you're still debating no jutsu...

viruz007: Naruto against Itachi when going after Gaara...

Ihedinobi: And @panel of debaters, Naruto minus Kyuubi equals...?

kimco: naruto suffered the pain of rejection. He was a baby when his parents died and cudn't have suffered their lost as much. However....pain lost his parent to ninjas right infront of him. Then he lost a sibling he held so dear to his heart to a corrupt ninja system. Do u think u can compare these two people's pain. Don't be silly. Bring up something better than dat.

kimco: Whaaaaaat! Jiraiya saved his life when he was a kid and naive and gallible. How is dat not meaning anything? U try hard to make naruto relevant but i'm sorry u're failing. That connection of fellow students which pain jux found out fighting naruto is nothing at all compared to jiraiya's infuence on him. Please stop this.
Obito's influenced was shown to have become more apparent when pain lost yahinko, obito shared the same pain so it was easy to be influenced by someone who shared ur exact same pain and didn't try to ''talk no jutsu'' him

Baddestguyp: for kisame, u said it urself...Kamui. Now to itachi...itachi's tsukuyomi wont work cos kakashi has awokened d mangyekou sharingan. U cant use an ms to put an ms user in gengutsu. An ms user can put a normal sharingan user in genjutsu nd the sharingan user can break out of it if there are close blood relations as seen in the itachi vs sasuke battle. So genjutsu is useless against kakashi as he'll kip on breaking out of it.susano's sword n bow will easily be taken care of by kamui as seen in the short kakashi vs sasuke battle. Amaterasu will be taken care of by speed r kamui. Note: amaterasu will come b4 susano cos itachi would be trapped in the other dimension nd die of hunger

michaelo2: HOW MANY EPISODES HAS NARUTO

kimco: Oh dear...Pain got influenced by jiraiya as a kid and jiraiya was a father figure to him. Yahinko and konan his siblings. Naruto? Who was naruto to him b4 the fight. Naruto was jux his ticket to his dream world and nothing more. Don't compare the level of power jiraiya and yahinko had over pain to that section of talk no jutsu naruto had with him. Didn't u see how he didn't even want to hear jiraiya out during their fight? Cos he nolonger had that influence. Everything he believed in has been shattered, much like obito and his goal was his life now. Now how da hell did naruto penetrate that thick layer of hatred, that the father figure cudn't even penetrate? of cos with talk no jutsu...cos talk no jutsu has infinte power of love and friendship.... Hooorraaaaaaay!

Baddestguyp: abi o. I dont see how kisame or itachi'll defeat kakashi if kakashi had enough chakra. Ms against Ms. Ameterasu against speed. Fire style against earth, water, fire, lightening. Susano against kamui

Feraz: We seriously underestimate Kakashi here. If Kakashi had been an Uchiha, he'd beat Itachi well. Kakashi will beat Kisame.

kimco: Sasuke spoke to itachi and danzo in between their fight? Is that ur counter to my talk no jutsu claim? Google the meaning of talk no jutsu, u don't seem to know what it means. Issue of love and friendship...maybe too much love and friendship don't u think....every minute we're reminded of it (naruto x sasuke), hence...talk no jutsu....oh and don't forget the famous...''i'll be hokage'' okay we get it, u wanna be hokage...we heard u the first 50 tyms u said it. Jeez. kyuubi came to his rescue then he later talked no jutsued pain to death...literarily. He even talk no jutsued the kyuubi into submission. I ramped my head into a rock when the kyuubi was cheering for naruto like alittle girl cheerleader, how worse can it get. Sasuke's case was to progress the story. Till today i dnt knw how sasuke won that fight. Haku's case has been explained.....stop making me repeat my self.

kimco: Let's put this into perspective...let's take bleach for instance...bleach introduced us to it world....making us know the dos and don'ts, capble and incapable...so we knew what would be an asspull and what won't be. Now in bleach characters can be killed...ala espada and fodder shinigamis. However we start to find it horribly outrageous when shinigami like abarai renji get slashed up and still manage to survive while the strongest espada dies with a single slash. that's horrible writing. Contextual realism has to be met as well. U can't jux go breaking ur own rules like that. Imagine all of a sudden naruto gains rinnegan because aparently, he is a descendant of the so6p's second son. Now that would make me cry for humanity.

Edit: hey i didn't even notice it was u i was responding to. Guess we really don't think alike that much.

sarutobie: Ok lemme breakdown my reasons÷ the powers in one guy has the following advantages
1.More power output in terms of jutsus
2.Faster cooldown inbetween jutsu usage
Its disadvantages nko?
1.Lack of 360 vision(we saw that edo nagato needed summons to achieve it BUT the summons weren't fast or smart enough as itachi demonstrated)
2.One well timed attack can take out the one entity(again itachi demonstrated it with one totsuka stab)
3.No element of suprise(since you know its only one entity)
4.Possible fatigue after a protracted battle(he is human after all)

Now the 6 bodies disadvantages÷
1.Weak when seperated
2.Longer jutsu cooldown(in tendo's case)
3.Less power output
The 6 bodies advantages nko?(Which to me,overshadows it's disadvantage)
1.The ultimate 360 vision=flawless attack and defence coordination(as jiraiya found out)
2.The element of suprise(as jiraiya found out by losing his arm)
3.They feel NO pain(as ibiki and his anbus found out)
4.An attack like totsuka stab won't be enough since you will need to do it SIX more times(which I doubt pain will allow you do again after the first try..assuming totsuka can seal Zombies without a soul!)
5.They are zombies!(Meaning they don't feel fatigued,nor fear,since the main guy is hidden far away and safe!)
6.Six is greater than one(do you think mere kunai will have blinded any path like the way itachi blinded those clumsy summons?)
7.The ability to resurrect!(Nagato can't resurrect his own self).....

kimco: dude u can use a diffrent color to respond to my post so i can't read them better. If you wanna quote the response accordingly jux cut and paste the first quote code (eg quote author=rapmike)and paste it at the begining of the respective post/comment then paste the last quote code (ie /quote) at the end of that post. Do it for all the quote u want to respond to.

When kakashi hit him...he was surprised and said how was he able to hit him that he could not sense him...he must be kakashi of the sharingan. Kakashi took advantage of his swift nature...his sharingan and his speed...which at that tym far surpased naruto's speed. don't even compare both of them. That would surprise anybody. Even itachi was surprised by a frontal underground attack by kakashi, how much more from the back amidst chaos. He's not invinsible but attacks like that of naruto's shud not have landed atall. kakuzu doesn't underestimate his opponents.But somehow he underestimated naruto. Why is that so. Even ino and choji he didn't underestimate. anoda case of his superb senses would be when he sensed that ino was watching him through that raven's eye and nearly killed her. Not alot of ninjas can do dat. kakuzu is fast, very fast....even too fast for kakashi as seen in their taijitsu duel, completely overpowering him. Naruto shouldn't have been able to hit him... The rasenshuriken shud have made enough noise for him to have sensed. He should have been waaaaay faster to have doged that attack. His speed feats have been shown to usbut all of a sudden naruto enters battlefield and kakuzu is stupid like kiba. Don't compare a jiraiya who had his arm torn off his chest pierced to a full powered kakuzu who still had 3 hearts to go.
Naruto and kiba? Dude that is a horrible example. Naruto should have been down and out after all that beating from kiba. Instead he gets up from wounds that dat can impale stronger ninjas and talk no jutsu his way out of that fight. Horrible and boring fight. He won that fight cos he was naruto, the main character. With neji's fight he genuinely used his head and i can agree with that, it is the 2nd naruto fight i have enjoyed so far....1st being against pain in kyuubi mode.

Naruto without prior knowledege facing the three paths of pain can't do anything. Do not compare naruto to jiraiya. At that point in time....jiraiya was far above naruto in experience and skill level. Even he had to retreat and rely on genjutsu to immobilise the pain paths....he even said that if he kept on fighting them he would die cos they were powerful together he had to seperate them to even have a chance. it doesn't matter how strong u are if u fight an overpowering opponent u don't understand u'll jux be overpowered....even with naruto's fore knowledge and massive help....he still lost to pain until hinata came to save him....cue kyuubi mode. Pain said if jiraiya knew of their secret he COULD HAVE defeated them. He said this becos he acknowledged the skill of his former sensei facing pain alone and defeating three paths without knowledge of their full power as opposed to naruto with the help of all the battle frogs and accumulated knowledge and still lost. Six paths are better than one immobile pain body...especially with shared vision. If naruto faced them without prior knowledge and even with sage mode he would get mauled. Don't even try to play this.

sarutobie: It all boils down to PIS(plot induced stupidity..the most potent power of ALL good guys in anime,comics,hollywood and all) and bad writing on kishi's part sometimes.Even with the powers shared between 6 bodies,'that' naruto can't beat pain at full power(that is with tendo in the game from the start)..Not even with the info he got from jiraiya and the village.looking at it from a neutral perspective,it was just not enough.if tendo alone could flaw sagemode naruto,then the 6 combined will be overkill.But it so happend(courtesy of PIS again) that naruto was needed alive..so pain never aimed to kill him for once.unlike j-man.Personally I will prefer battling the 6paths in one body than battling them in 6 seperate entities.I have my reasons

kimco: you should improve upon ur reply though. kakuzu was introduced to us as a ninja who had battle experience. Planned ahead jux like shikamaru ;The problem of planning ahead lyke dat is dat any spontaneous move can get u,although maybe he should have noticd d trick earlier, d ting wit naruto is dat he processes tricks as d battle go on,check his fight wit kiba u wil undastand wat am saying,naruto does nt cari a battle plan wit him b4 d battle. as seen by him putting a heart into the ground incase something happened and did not underestimate his opponents. The guy's awareness is off the charts YET KAKASHI CUD HIT HIM WIT A RAIKIRI? PLEASE D AWARENESS IS GUD BT HIS AWARENESS IS NT OFF THE CHARTS CUS IF IT IS,THEN I WONDA WAT U WIL SAY ABT MADARA'S OWN? and yet somehow when naruto arrives...all went out the window? It happens,besides d time at wich d bushin disappeard and naruto hitting kakuzu was small,i also guess dat kakuzu's heart eating thread were stuck on d ground, cos looking closely,it was his movement dat was slow,nt his anticipation.That's bad writing from kishimoto. Naruto shouldn't have been fast enough to land that hit cos

1. He was tired from his tranning.TRUE

2. Kakuzu should have been faster enough to evade the attack.MAY NT BE Dat fast

Like i said other weaker ninjas have evaded closer attacks. Like how jiraiya dodged d attack of d pain path dat crushd his throat? S class ninja isn't jux for show and he demonstrated that till kishimoto plot no jutsu'ed the guy.


As for pain...the push and pull power is his most powerful offence. Don't say with it because that's part of pain. If naruto went against what jiraiya went thru fighting just 3 pains without fore knowledge...he won't last half the time jiraiya lasted even with sage mode on. Don't underestimate pain... Naruto defeated those ones cos he already had fore knowledge and knew...with the help of counsel.....exactly what to do. He's no match for pain, dude, don't even try to defend that one. An immobile pain was raping him and killer bee left right and center. Maybe all d paths in 1 person is 2 much 4 anybody,bt dos six scatterd paths? Seriously are u tripping? Jiraiya defeatd 3 of them wit prior knowledge and even when d six came out,he stil took out 1. Pain admitd dat if jiraiya had knwn dat they were six and dia abilities dat jiraiya may have beaten dem. Naruto jst distractd their joint sight stuff and he took most of them out. So if u say dat 1 single person wit all d six paths cn beat naruto, no prob bt apart 4rm tendo pain, naruto wil floor d remaining paths

kimco: you should improve upon ur reply though. kakuzu was introduced to us as a ninja who had battle experience. Planned ahead jux like shikamaru ;The problem of planning ahead lyke dat is dat any spontaneous move can get u,although maybe he should have noticd d trick earlier, d ting wit naruto is dat he processes tricks as d battle go on,check his fight wit kiba u wil undastand wat am saying,naruto does nt cari a battle plan wit him b4 d battle. as seen by him putting a heart into the ground incase something happened and did not underestimate his opponents. The guy's awareness is off the charts YET KAKASHI CUD HIT HIM WIT A RAIKIRI? PLEASE D AWARENESS IS GUD BT HIS AWARENESS IS NT OFF THE CHARTS CUS IF IT IS,THEN I WONDA WAT U WIL SAY ABT MADARA'S OWN? and yet somehow when naruto arrives...all went out the window? It happens,besides d time at wich d bushin disappeard and naruto hitting kakuzu was small,i also guess dat kakuzu's heart eating thread were stuck on d ground, cos looking closely,it was his movement dat was slow,nt his anticipation.That's bad writing from kishimoto. Naruto shouldn't have been fast enough to land that hit cos

1. He was tired from his tranning.TRUE

2. Kakuzu should have been faster enough to evade the attack.MAY NT BE Dat fast

Like i said other weaker ninjas have evaded closer attacks. Like how jiraiya dodged d attack of d pain path dat crushd his throat? S class ninja isn't jux for show and he demonstrated that till kishimoto plot no jutsu'ed the guy.


As for pain...the push and pull power is his most powerful offence. Don't say with it because that's part of pain. If naruto went against what jiraiya went thru fighting just 3 pains without fore knowledge...he won't last half the time jiraiya lasted even with sage mode on. Don't underestimate pain... Naruto defeated those ones cos he already had fore knowledge and knew...with the help of counsel.....exactly what to do. He's no match for pain, dude, don't even try to defend that one. An immobile pain was raping him and killer bee left right and center. Maybe all d paths in 1 person is 2 much 4 anybody,bt dos six scatterd paths? Seriously are u tripping? Jiraiya defeatd 3 of them wit prior knowledge and even when d six came out,he stil took out 1. Pain admitd dat if jiraiya had knwn dat they were six and dia abilities dat jiraiya may have beaten dem. Naruto jst distractd their joint sight stuff and he took most of them out. So if u say dat 1 single person wit all d six paths cn beat naruto, no prob bt apart 4rm tendo pain, naruto wil floor d remaining paths

kimco: you should improve upon ur reply though. kakuzu was introduced to us as a ninja who had battle experience. Planned ahead jux like shikamaru ;The problem of planning ahead lyke dat is dat any spontaneous move can get u,although maybe he should have noticd d trick earlier, d ting wit naruto is dat he processes tricks as d battle go on,check his fight wit kiba u wil undastand wat am saying,naruto does nt cari a battle plan wit him b4 d battle. as seen by him putting a heart into the ground incase something happened and did not underestimate his opponents. The guy's awareness is off the charts YET KAKASHI CUD HIT HIM WIT A RAIKIRI? PLEASE D AWARENESS IS GUD BT HIS AWARENESS IS NT OFF THE CHARTS CUS IF IT IS,THEN I WONDA WAT U WIL SAY ABT MADARA'S OWN? and yet somehow when naruto arrives...all went out the window? It happens,besides d time at wich d bushin disappeard and naruto hitting kakuzu was small,i also guess dat kakuzu's heart eating thread were stuck on d ground, cos looking closely,it was his movement dat was slow,nt his anticipation.That's bad writing from kishimoto. Naruto shouldn't have been fast enough to land that hit cos

1. He was tired from his tranning.TRUE

2. Kakuzu should have been faster enough to evade the attack.MAY NT BE Dat fast

Like i said other weaker ninjas have evaded closer attacks. Like how jiraiya dodged d attack of d pain path dat crushd his throat? S class ninja isn't jux for show and he demonstrated that till kishimoto plot no jutsu'ed the guy.


As for pain...the push and pull power is his most powerful offence. Don't say with it because that's part of pain. If naruto went against what jiraiya went thru fighting just 3 pains without fore knowledge...he won't last half the time jiraiya lasted even with sage mode on. Don't underestimate pain... Naruto defeated those ones cos he already had fore knowledge and knew...with the help of counsel.....exactly what to do. He's no match for pain, dude, don't even try to defend that one. An immobile pain was raping him and killer bee left right and center. Maybe all d paths in 1 person is 2 much 4 anybody,bt dos six scatterd paths? Seriously are u tripping? Jiraiya defeatd 3 of them wit prior knowledge and even when d six came out,he stil took out 1. Pain admitd dat if jiraiya had knwn dat they were six and dia abilities dat jiraiya may have beaten dem. Naruto jst distractd their joint sight stuff and he took most of them out. So if u say dat 1 single person wit all d six paths cn beat naruto, no prob bt apart 4rm tendo pain, naruto wil floor d remaining paths

kimco: Exactly what i mean....naruto was able to trick kakuzu...the very man who was kicking kakashi's a.s.s like a baby, experienced to the core and with battle perception so great it could rival that of shikamaru.massive array of hig level jutsus. Then all of a sudden he wasn't good enough to sense the real naruto behind him fast enough to evade? Mind u his thoughts was dat he had attackd d real naruto and b4 he noticed dat he was a bushin, it was quite late Cmon lesser ninjas have evaded closer attacks. He's an s class akatsuki ninja for a reason. Even diedera was quick enough to dodge naruto's surprise attack after losing two arms...mind u naruto was faster then cos he was in kyubi mode two tails or so. In dis case he did nt dodge essentially,he used a clone and naruto thought dat it was d real deidara, it was actually because of d discovery of d clone dats y naruto enterd 2 tail mode. With pain he had counsel behind him and even then he had to enter kyubii mode to survive. Pain would've demolished him if it came to a one on one fight which he already was,Tendo Pain Push-Pull jutsu helpd him and its nt only naruto dat had info abt him,witout Push-Pull jutsu naruto wil beat ALL PAINS WIT SAGE MODE even with counsel helping him.

As for the other's surving...i think naruto has survived much more than all of them combined. But it was a one time thing, when they were retrieving sasuke....kiba mostly was running and hiding in his fight that was shown...a smart move if anyone who was as weak as him wanted to survive.AND HE IS A CHUNNIN?MTSCHEW Perfectly understandable.BT PATHETIC FOR A COMPETITOR 2 NARUTO. As for sasuke...the least said about him the best it would be for us. Kishi loves his uchihas.

iykmora: ^^^ okay d six path(zombies) are weird. What of Nagato the controller? Do you realise that Yahiko was an akatsuki b4 his death? Both were normal na ! !

kimco: i don't believe naruto is battle smart as u guy make it out to be. It's kishimoto making him look gud by jux coming up with the silliest explanations for him winning or doing something silly. If shikamaru won a battle...u'll know u jux witnessed a genius at work. naruto wins most of the time because he's the gud guy. That protagonist syndrome. If anyone went thru what he did...they'd be dead. This is what we call plot no jutsu.

Tosyn007: Hidan looks normal enough for me

Tosyn007: Hidan looks normal enough for me