kayfra:


Herbert Macaulay laid the ground for all that fight. Zik was one of his mentees amongst others.

Zik started his struggle way back in the US together with people like Nkrumah. When he came to Africa, his first point of call was in Ghana where he continued the struggle using his newspapers. Down to Nigeria, Macaulay was the leader of the movement already when Zik joined his party. After his death, he became the leader of the struggle in Nigeria. Now ask yourself why didnt we hear Macaulay of Africa, Awolowo of Africa, Bello of Africa? This is because Zik was among those that fought for the liberation of the black man, Africa and Nigeria while his contemporaries then focused on Nigeria then and some even their tribes alone. Seeing him in that list is in no way accidental because his political teachings and ideologies extended across Africa. Little wonder he was the only advocate of One Nigeria among his peers. That is the essence of Pan-africanism.
We have over flogged this issue but it might benefit u to read more history books. Thanks

kayfra:


Ok. Let's give him minor props for making the list with zero impact

No impact and he was among the major proponents of achieving Nigeria's independence. During that era,the major struggle for the few black intellectuals then was the liberation and emancipation of the black man. This was what all those people in that list fought for including Zik. For those in Africa then, the liberation came through Independence of their countries from the colonial masters while for those in USA and Europe, it came through enforcing social equality and ending racism.
The Mandela and Nkrumah that you are celebrating, is not because they fought for their countries independence? How is it different from Zik or is it because Zik wasn't sentenced to prison that you now downplay his roles.
Please let's learn to appreciate our own sometimes and study history more. thanks

Nexus25:


You are wrong, Edo is not west but he was instrumental to the emergence of Oshiomole.

Kogi is not west but he handpicked his boy(Faleke) from Lagos to deputise the late Audu

Kwara is not west but he used his otoge media creation to sweep the "Almighty " Saraki away from Kwara.

Bayelsa is not west but the sacked governor paid him homage the second day he was declared winner.

I just highlighted few of the instances, I could go on and on.

The real political players in Nigeria know his worth.

You think if was by mouth Buhari conceded to all Tinubu's request in the last election?

Tinubu is powerful in APC no doubt but he can't have personal interest in all state elections. That someone wins under APC and goes to thank him as a national leader of the party doesn't mean that he installed the person like Bayelsa. He has a duty to support anybody contesting under Apc regardless of whether the person wins or not. It won't make sense ascribing every Apc victory to him.
Like I said earlier the real power and influence lies in the hands of Buhari and his cabal.

Nexus25:


Tinubu singlehandedly nominated the second and fourth citizens in the country.

Being the greatest is debatable but as the most strategic, advanced and sophisticated politician, no individual comes close in this republic

I will say most strategic.

Nexus25:


You are wrong, Edo is not west but he was instrumental to the emergence of Oshiomole.

Kogi is not west but he handpicked his boy(Faleke) from Lagos to deputise the late Audu

Kwara is not west but he used his otoge media creation to sweep the "Almighty " Saraki away from Kwara.

Bayelsa is not west but the sacked governor paid him homage the second day he was declared winner.

I just highlighted few of the instances, I could go on and on.

The real political players in Nigeria know his worth.

You think if was by mouth Buhari conceded to all Tinubu's request in the last election?

Just say that anybody that contests under APC is Tinubu's boy. Are you okay now.

Nexus25:
On Ekiti, Fayemi is a student of Tinubu's political college.

He made him governor. No matter what, Fayemi knows his roots and recognises the role of BAT in his political voyage.

it all boils down to what I have been saying on this thread. I am not arguing about Tinubu's sagacity in the west. Before you term somebody greatest in Nigerian politics, the person should have follower ship in at least two thirds of the country not only your region. He doesn't control the hausa fulani, he doesn't control Igbos neither does he control Niger deltans so what's all the fuse about being greatest.

Nexus25:


Yes, election didn't end at the primary as alluded to in your earlier post. Mimiko was a political giant in the state, those of us in APC feared him. Tinubu collapsed his structure for Akeredolu to win the election.

Are you aware Akeredolu sacked about 5 of his commissioners nominated by Tinubu because of the fear of the next election? If Tinubu didn't contribute to his victory, would he had given Tinubu any slot?

Akeredolu has been parading Bourdillion since the beginning of this year trying to curry Tinubu's favour. You ask to what ends If BAT doesn't wield a significant influence?

The sacked commissioners? He went to explain himself

Tinubu had no choice than to collapse his structures with Aketi because he can't work against APC as he has already lost at the primaries. He is a good politician because to him the party comes first and he is not a vindictive politician. In politics, u can never win all. Some would rather sponsor a candidate from another party.
For mimiko, he became powerless after pdp lost at the centre and at the same time pdp had two factions, his annointed candidate and sheriff's candidate Jim oh Ibrahim. A divided house can never stand as we have seen this period as APC lost many states due to internal factions.
Giving Tinubu the commissioners slots does not mean that Tinubu contributed even 50% to his emergence.Sometimes things are done for peace to reign.

kayfra:


He was associated with that list but my point is, he wasn't prominent outside Nigeria.

Wow at least I schooled in Ghana and most of my classmates talk about Zik of Africa as they call him. He might not be as popular as some of the names there but can you vouch that you have heard of some of those names before. Moreover when you die during a struggle, you tend to be more popular than those that attain old age though this is not factual anyway but we see it most times.

Nexus25:


About ondo state primary election, Tinubu had a very massive influence. He only overplayed himself. Too much smartness kills atimes. From Tinubu's camp alone, three leading candidates contested. Tinubu personally bankrolled Segun Abraham, he funded Borrofice's campaign through his wife(Remi Tinubu). Then Sola Oke was supported by Aregbesola on the instruction of Tinubu. Aketi narrowly won Segun Abraham with 11 votes then Oke and Borrofice with less than 100votes each. Tinubu's camp had more than 65% of the total votes from that election.

Why they didn't support a candidate remains one of the greatest Tinubu's political mistake. This he said without mincing words

From what you explained above, can you confidently say that Tinubu made Akeredolu governor?

senatordave1:

Obj own ended in 2007 sir.there's no evidence that he controlled gej or yaradua.how come people he supported always lost elections even when pdp was in power? His inability to remove tinubu in 2003 showed tinubu's superiority.another chance came in 2007 and he failed.guy,tinubu left lagos,supported a candidate in ogun and bested obj.even obj daughter.how else do you want to compare na

Obj never ended in 2007, he had a very close relationship with the yaradua family because of Shehu Yaradua, I guess that was why he picked Umaru Yaradua to replace him. That he gave yaradua and Jonathan free hands and wasn't over bearing didn't mean that he didn't have influence in their governments. His influence ended when he fell out with Jonathan and tore his membership card therefore switching his allegiance to Buhari. There was no how Buhari would give him space to dictate anything in his government. Buhari's gov retired him politically.

Tinubu wasn't the only Governor that challenged OBJ then, Orji Kali also resisted him which led to Orji leaving PDP to form PPA and still retained his seat and even installed his successor under same PPA.

As for his state, yoruba in general never really revered him even up till now, so that was y he never had total control of SW.

senatordave1:

Tinubu produced lai mohammed who led the removal of saraki.the question is which other politician has done all these? Has obj done it
Tinubu supported ngige to win senate seat in ansmbra,supported oshiomhole to victory,he almost produced a governor in kogi,begged wamakko to allow tambuwal to run.intact,tinubu handpicked most of those who picked apc ticket in 2015.

Ngige won due to the goodwill he enjoyed from his people and not Tinubu's influence. Are you saying anyone that contests under ACN then is Tinubu's boy? Ngige was made by OBJ, he went to ACN because of his fallout with the Uba brothers in PDP. If Tinubu was that influential, why didn't he win in 2015 when APC came to power.

For Oshiomhole, he was already a household name that also enjoyed the good will of the people. He won because Jonathan wasn't in the business of influencing electoral results with federal might which was why he rushed to thank him after after the election for allowing a free and fair election.
For Kogi, Tinubu produced AuduAbubakar? A former governor of the state.

Just tell me Tinubu produced all candidates of APC and ACN since that's how it is.

LivingSage:
And who is kashim shetima to Tinubu if I may ask you.
On Akeredolu, and you think he'll win if Tinubu didn't talk to aggrieved APC members then? Besides, you should know they're Ally before APC primary, Immediately after primary, he gave in to Tinubu again!
If you want to talk about force, clarify it, you may say in BYE- ELECTION. Do you also know what PDP did in the main election at Adeleke's hometown?

So far as Borno state politics is concerned, Tinubu is nobody there, the real godfather there is Ali Modu Sheriff. For Ondo case, pdp was already in tatters and it was obvious APC was going to win regardless of who emerges winner in the primaries. The real battle was in the primaries where Oyegun worked against Tinubu's interest that led to the emergence of Aketi. It was so obvious that APC would win that Mimiko has to agree to work for APC so that he would be given a soft landing and not be probed. Even if there was Tinubu's impact, it was almost insignificant considering the situation of things then.

senatordave1:

Same applies to obj.

it's a known fact that Obj was annointed by the Northern oligarchs to serve their interest but before then he was not a nobody like say Jonathan. He was a former head of state and a respected general that favour smiled upon for successfully handing over to a democratic president. Being too big to be tossed around, by 2003 he became his own man to the extent that the Northerners started to fear him. He ruled the roost from 2003 to 2015 being a decisive factor in who gets what in this country. This is the level Tinubu is trying to attain but he can't for now because he has never been a president like Obj. Presently, the fulani cabal are the most powerful power brokers in Nigeria because they weird the real power.

LivingSage:
Are you referring to 2003, 2007 when Obj used forced (men in uniform) to distrupt elections in favour of his annointed candidates? Obj has never been great, he's just an opportunist of VETO POWER.
Tinubu can influence political decisions outside Southwest, kwara, Bornu as an example because he has his people there. We're not talking about force here o

Tinubu got nothing on Borno, Shettima delivered his preferred candidate Zulum, moreover Borno has always been an APC state, winner of the primaries wins the state no need for any external influence from Tinubu. Kwara is like an extension of the SW but he capitalised on the people being fed up of the sarabia dynasty. Hope u know Akeredolu of Ondo was never Tinubu's candidate.
Then talking about using force, can you explain what transpired in the Osun election?

LivingSage:
Haven't said all these, the two outstanding now are Tinubu and Obj. To my own view, Tinubu surpasses Obj(even as we type) so he's the greatest politician of this Republic NOW

Does Tinubu's influence spread across the country? Can he make anyone a governor outside SW? Obj might no longer be politically active but once upon a time in Nigeria, he made people governors across every geographical region in Nigeria. Tinubu is still climbing that rope for now and he may or may not get to that level. Until BAT gets to that stage where he will have a national appeal like Obj had, he is not yet the greatest.

kayfra:


You can't make a case for a vacuum

I gave you a reputable list of all the well known pan africanists in history which also included the names of the people you mentioned but you decided to single out Zik maybe because he is a nigerian or not from your preferred ethnicity, I can't really tell but you can go read his biography maybe you might be more enlightened after that.


Note that I never said he was a saint but everybody has a good and bad side. Gracias

[quote author=LivingSage post=88132425]So you're rulling out Tinubu's influence in Buhari becoming president right? Why didn't he won 3 times consecutively before the merger of Tinubu's then ACN?
Besides, obj was against Buhari's reelection. To tell you that he he Isn't relevant, did Buhari won or not? Tinubu is the greatest politician as the political dispensation of this fourth republic is concern
[/quot

in 2015, Obj was against GEJ. Remember he tore his pdp membership card

Agboriotejoye:

I really don't get you. Buhari emerged president by winning 95% states in the north, how was dat due to tinubu? The same thing occurred in 2019 when the SW votes were split so I'm still trying to see the Tinubu influence you're touting so much.
I just mentioned people who are OBJ's boys. There are still a good number of them I haven't mentioned including okorocha and even the atiku self. So you can dissect their political fortunes but they are OBJ's boys

They unnecessarily overhypeTinubu. He is a good politician no doubt but they seem to ascribe to him some sort of mythical powers that don't exist. His true influence will be gauged in 2023 when there will be no Buhari on the ballot.

LivingSage:
He single handedly succeed the ploy, victimisation of obj as the only AD governor, he's produced more governors, ministers, party leaders and all sort than any Nigeria politician.

Are these to the benefit of the people or his own personal interest. He is talking of physical legacies that benefit the people directly and not his family and cronies.

Sammy07:

I guess you didn't read the OP post, you only read his title.
He said in this 4th republic

thanks for the correction.

senatordave1:

Tinubu will always influence things nationally than obj

did the 4th republic start in 2015? He came into national politics in 2015. Without Buhari's influence and godlike status in the north, there is no way Tinubu would have come into national limelight. Buhari would have still become president if he had aligned with the SS/SE block but unfortunately they rejected him. Both are regional politicians at best and are enjoying the fruits of their coalition. It won't make sense to start over hyping people now.

There is a big difference between being the best and greatest. Saying that Tinubu is the greatest Nigerian politician is an insult to even the SW who had Awolowo not to talk of Nigeria as a whole that have had Zik, Bello etc.

I think the right word should be that Tinubu is the best political strategist in this present political dispensation. Even his strongest critics won't argue with that.

kayfra:


Pan-Africanism exists as a governmental and grassroots objective. Pan-African advocates include leaders such as Haile Selassie, Julius Nyerere, Ahmed Sékou Touré, Kwame Nkrumah, King Sobhuza II, Thomas Sankara and Muammar Gaddafi, grassroots organizers such as Marcus Garvey and Malcolm X, academics such as W. E. B. Du Bois, and others in the diaspora.


Zik was just a swagger jacker. A scrub

Until you are able to erase his name from this list that also includes all the names you mentioned above, then I don't have any meaningful argument with you.

kayfra:


Zik of Africa is just a misnomer.

The real Pan-Africanists are well known unlike Zik. Kwame Nkrumah and co.

is a misnomer because you say so. please kindly educate yourself. below is the 50 most important pan africanists in history https://www.panafricanalliance.com/50-most-important-pan-africans/

incase you don't know, Zik and Nkrumah graduated from the same university in the US and both share the same political ideology. Due to their achievements, they have a building dedicated and named after them to celebrate them as pan africanists.

Agboriotejoye:

I'm not obsessed with OBJ and I don't know what you mean by accidental leader. OBJ is still the smartest and most widely recognised and respected democratic leader we've ever had as a nation. Consider that he hosted two sitting US presidents while Buhari for example is yet to host even a US vice president. The best he has gotten so far is the secy of state.

That Tinubu has produced more politicians is debatable but what is not debatable is the spread. You mentioned national politics. Most politicians from Tinubu's stable are south west, Lagos to be precise. OBJ's disciples are more diverse with spread all over Nigeria.

It is true that he's the only one standing from his class of 99 especially in terms of still holding his state by the jugular. I don't know if that counts in terms of national politics neither can it be counted as a plus for him.

As for those other achievements you counted, I think what has worked for him is actually being out of office and the massive financial chest at his disposal. None of those have any bearing on national politics. They are regional at best.

you are really on point. OBJ's disciples cut across the whole country while Tinubu's disciples are mainly regional. So why comparing somebody that was in full control and Kingmaker of Nigerian national politics for 16 years to somebody that just came into national political landscape in 2015 and let's not also forget Buhari's influence in the north which is even greater than tinubu's influence in the west.

senatordave1:

Overall politics.politics is very wide not narrow.ahmadu bello to me towers above awo while tinubu is the ultimate

Based on legacies, Awo trumps Zik and Bello but based on overall politics and influence across Nigeria and Africa, they are no match to Zik.

2050261169.......UBA

topsquino:
I've been on this platform since 2007. Thank you Seun for Nairaland.

I feel this is the right time to give back to the community.

I'm doing a 1 MILLION NAIRA giveaway today by 6pm

Please check my post today 6pm so that you won't miss out.

You can also check my profile to confirm my credibility.

I clean like slate and gentle like dove.

God bless you.
2050261169......UBA

solmus:


we would marginalize you till year 3023, besides you cant you see East-West road.. and we know your dream as an ibo man is always to cross river niger and come to the west to hustle

You see why I don't take many of you folks seriously. Many of you don't even travel out of your region but claim to know every part of Nigeria based on hear say. A simple google search would have saved you from being naive to say that the East-west road is in the south east. FYI, the road is located in the south south and doesn't cross any SE state.

I think you should go to European schools that have tuition free institutions for international students. All you have to do is pay about 5-6 mill into a block account over there which is still money for your upkeep. I would suggest Germany and Norway. The main issue is securing admission into their universities, if you can achieve that, then the visa process is easy and straightforward with 95% guarantee of securing visa unlike the USA.
Finally use about 10-12 mill to buy a property here in Naija that people can rent.

For now, student visa is the easiest way to guarantee your legal stay in any country for a long period of time.

BestOsai:


Serious downgrade.The man is dumb.I wont leave House of Reps to be deputy governor.

Lol, haven't you noticed that the 2 running mates from both parties are sitting senators. Oga the kind of money in Bayelsa even if you spend 8 years in the senate, you won't smell it. The only thing is to ensure you are loyal to your governor, u go chop money tire.

DexterousOne:


Every man you listed up there got govt patronage too

Just that Dangote was the most strategic

So just cut the B.S.

Yes they got government patronage but I was trying to differentiate between the genuine businessmen that showed real ingenuity by building their business from the scratch to the level where they now enjoy government patronage from the oil moguls like Alakija, Indimi, Arthur Eze etc who were all lucky to have military friends that gifted them oil blocks. The only work to do is to get a foreign company to work on the block and share the profits.
For example, I know when coscharis started dealing on auto parts at Aba and Nnewi before relocating to Lagos, Innoson started as a motorcycle and spare parts dealer in Nnewi. We know how and when Subomi, Ovia, Fola Adeola started their banks.

Now as a start up businessman, who would you rather look up to for encouragement in your business? A product of hardwork, perseverance, endurance and patience or the product of luck and opportunity.