₦airaland Forum

FOLYKAZE:
Yinka ha! You are twisting simple English here.

The statement is vivid itself. Salvation is through faith, faith is a gift from God..



2 Peter 1:1
New International Version
1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

Yet again, Peter here is referring to some set of believers; whom he attested received faith through righteousness of God and Salvation of Christ. Thus, it implies that faith is given, as gift, to believers.





Chai! See twisting

Let me ask, what is that which is given?



Acts 3:16, NIV: "By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. [/b] It is Jesus' name and the faith that comes through him[b] that has completely healed him, as you can all see."

Faith that comes through Jesus. Did the blind man bought it from Jesus or it was given unto him as a present?



Hebrew 11:1 defines faith. Stop twisting it.



Salvation through faith is a gift Eph 2:8-10



Their is no special gift mentioned there. It only says some where given the gift of faith while others have something else.



Cheers to that




God share the precious gift of faith to some like lollipop, but I and other non-believers are not opportune. Don't blame us, blame God. Even at that, God is said to punish us for not possessing a talent he didn't give us...that is one of those attributes that make him wicked.



Happy Sunday buddy!

Let's apply this to the rule of logic to see how correct your interpretations are
1. You believe God did NOT give you the gift of Faith for Salvation
2. You believe God did give me the gift of Faith for Salvation

Now, what happens if per chance today I become an Atheist like you (denying everything I've ever known about Christ): would it
a. Invalidate that God ever gave me the gift of faith for salvation?
b. Would it absolve me of my role in the gift of Faith for Salvation?
c. Could it be that God retrieved back His gift of faith?
d. What is the role of my Will in this scenario?

MaxInDHouse:
Thank God the Bible revealed that there is no UNITY with Satan {Galatians 5:20) UNITY is a quality of God's Holy Spirit {John 17:20-23} so you've been blindfolded if you think Satan can UNITE people from all nations Sir! Micah 4:1-3

You err!

Matt12:25-26
25 Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?

People united under satan!

MaxInDHouse:
There are two different Jesus as you rightly said, one is OK with confusion and disorder while the other is for orderliness and unity.
So keep quoting scriptures out of context your Jesus can't organise his followers!

People united under satan!

Wolves in sheep skin!

We know you.

Bye for now!

MaxInDHouse:
Of course your Jesus will appreciate disorder nah, so that the proselytes you made for him will never be united but disorganized!
But my own Jesus will never accept such nonsense, his disciples must have the same line of thought {John 17:20-23 compare to Romans 15:5-6; 1Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3, Philippians 2:2} my own Jesus detests INIQUITY (LAWLESSNESS)! Matthew 7:21-23

John 10:14-16
14 I am the good shepherd. I know My sheep and My sheep know Me, 15just as the Father knows Me and I know the Father. And I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them in as well, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock and one shepherd

John 10:27
27 My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me.


The true Shepherd is Jesus Christ and my job is to lead people to Jesus. QED!

Your own job is to lead people to the enslavement of your organisation: please continue!

No shame!

qwertyboss:
Noah

Local flood, not global.

The Bible insists that Noah's flood was global and no one survived except the believers who boarded the Ark with Noah. However the Quran says that the flood was local and all nations other than Noah's survived.

Local floods are very common however there is no scientific evidence for a global flood. But stories of a global flood are found in many ancient cultures all-around the globe. If it were a global flood, as portrayed in the Bible, no one would have survived other than the believers who boarded the Ark with Noah. There would have been no disbelievers who didn't board the Ark and survived. However the Quran says something else, it says that there were disbelievers who didn't board the Ark and still survived:

Quran 11:48

It was said, "O Noah, disembark with peace from Us; and with blessings upon you, and upon communities from those with you. And other communities We will grant prosperity and later We will hand them painful torture."

٤٨ قِيلَ يَا نُوحُ اهْبِطْ بِسَلَامٍ مِنَّا وَبَرَكَاتٍ عَلَيْكَ وَعَلَىٰ أُمَمٍ مِمَّنْ مَعَكَ ۚ وَأُمَمٌ سَنُمَتِّعُهُمْ ثُمَّ يَمَسُّهُمْ مِنَّا عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ

Since God will punish them later then definitely they were disbelievers who were not onboard the Ark. If only believers boarded the Ark but still disbelievers survived then this means that it was just a local flood. Those who were not in the area survived.

The very next verse says that this story was not known before:

Quran 11:49

These are some stories from the past that we reveal to you. Neither you, nor your people knew them before this. So be patient. The future belongs to the pious.

٤٩ تِلْكَ مِنْ أَنْبَاءِ الْغَيْبِ نُوحِيهَا إِلَيْكَ ۖ مَا كُنْتَ تَعْلَمُهَا أَنْتَ وَلَا قَوْمُكَ مِنْ قَبْلِ هَٰذَا ۖ فَاصْبِرْ ۖ إِنَّ الْعَاقِبَةَ لِلْمُتَّقِينَ

The Bible insists on a global flood killing all disbelievers. The story in the Quran, that other disbelievers survived, was not known to previous cultures and the Quran was the first to proclaim it.

In the Quran the last prophet was sent to all nations however Noah was sent to just his own people:

Quran 21:107

We did not send you except as mercy to all nations.

١٠٧ وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلَّا رَحْمَةً لِلْعَالَمِينَ

Al-alameen الْعَالَمِينَ in Arabic means "all nations". The last prophet was sent to all nations, however Noah was  sent to just his own people:

Quran 7:59

We sent Noah to his people. He said, "O my people! Worship Allah; you have no god other than Him. I fear for you the punishment of a tremendous Day."

٥٩ لَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا نُوحًا إِلَىٰ قَوْمِهِ فَقَالَ يَا قَوْمِ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ مَا لَكُمْ مِنْ إِلَٰهٍ غَيْرُهُ إِنِّي أَخَافُ عَلَيْكُمْ عَذَابَ يَوْمٍ عَظِيمٍ

In the Quran Noah was sent to just his own people, not to all nations. And those who were drowned by the flood were disbelievers from his own people, not from all nations. The Quran never said that God drowned all nations Alameen الْعَالَمِينَ. However the Quran consistently said that God drowned only the people of Noah:

Quran 25:37

And the people of Noah: when they rejected the messengers, We drowned them, and made them a lesson for mankind. We have prepared for the wrongdoers a painful retribution.

٣٧ وَقَوْمَ نُوحٍ لَمَّا كَذَّبُوا الرُّسُلَ أَغْرَقْنَاهُمْ وَجَعَلْنَاهُمْ لِلنَّاسِ آيَةً ۖ وَأَعْتَدْنَا لِلظَّالِمِينَ عَذَابًا أَلِيمًا

God drowned disbelievers from Noah's own people قَوْمَ نُوحٍ and made them a lesson for mankind. The Quran never said that God drowned mankind.

Noah was sent to just his own people, not to all nations. And Noah presented God's message to just his own people, not to all nations. And those who rejected the message were from Noah's own people, not from all nations. So God drowned disbelievers from Noah's own people, not all nations. In the Quran all other nations had nothing to do with the flood. This means that it was just a local flood.

The Quran referred to the stuff Noah owned only:

Quran 11:40

Until, when Our command came, and the earth oven boiled, We said, "Board into it a pair of every kind, and your family-except those against whom the sentence has already been passed-and those who have believed." But those who believed with him were only a few.

٤٠ حَتَّىٰ إِذَا جَاءَ أَمْرُنَا وَفَارَ التَّنُّورُ قُلْنَا احْمِلْ فِيهَا مِنْ كُلٍّ زَوْجَيْنِ اثْنَيْنِ وَأَهْلَكَ إِلَّا مَنْ سَبَقَ عَلَيْهِ الْقَوْلُ وَمَنْ آمَنَ ۚ وَمَا آمَنَ مَعَهُ إِلَّا قَلِيلٌ

"Tannur التَّنُّورُ"is a whole in the ground for baking known as earth oven. When the "Tannur" boiled is in the singular mode, not plural. If it were a global flood then every Tannur on Earth should have boiled; but this wasn't the case, only the Tannur that he owned. From the "Tannur" we know that this verse is referring to what he owned only. Similarly in the same verse the animals that boarded the ark are also animals that he owned only, not every animal on Earth.

There is no scientific evidence for a global flood, however local floods are very common.

Unfortunately, the Qur'an is a snippet of a summary of the details of the bible. The most detailed epic in your Qur'an is Surat Yusuf. Others are snippets of uncoordinated narrations.

If there was no evidence of a global flood, can you explain the formation of crude oil deposits, coal and graphite deposits, shale deposits?

Did the quran speak about when the earth was divided into contienents?


According to the Qur'an,
1. God commanded Noah to build a ship, the Ark as stated in the bible?
2. Was Noah not a righteous man as stated in the bible?
3. Was the ship not loaded with pairs of animals as stated in the bible?
4. How untrue is it that the people who denied the message of Noah drowned in the flood according to the Qur'an (the Qur'an even said that amongst those who drowned included one of his own sons)
5. Islam says the place of landing was Al-Jūdiyy, the bible says it was mount Ararat!


Now, an atheist who doesn't believe at all in God came to say the bible story is a LIE and you can't say that it isn't but their are variations between the Qur'an and the Bible accounts. If the bible story is a lie, then the Qur'an is a falsehood that copied a lie as part of Allah's words.

If your problem is whether if the folks was global or local, then you can ask questions and just not speak without reasoning to Atheists. Do you think the OP's objection is answered by the Qur'an?

If the flood is local, does it make sense to pick every terrestrial living thing or just animals that could be useful for food?

The bible explains how the tribes of the earth evolved from the three sons of Noah: did the Qur'an speak about that?

The bible was detailed enough to show that the earth at the time of Noah was one single continent and not five as we have now?

Did the Qur'an speak about the source of the water other than rain: for a continuous rain for 40 days cannot produce a flood that can lift a ship of that size?

FatherOfJesus:
lol, running away because he cannot defend the fairytale. No sane person would take the story seriously anyways

?

FatherOfJesus:
so what do you do mean by “kinds of landed animals”?

Like not all landed animals entered the ark?

Don’t insult me if you want to debate else’s I will tear your generation apart

Questions after displaying gross illiteracy and stupidity. The content of the pen doesn't mean anything for a brute mule who has made up his mind before hearing a second opinion.
I'm actually not pleased at myself for spending time to respond to your post. Notwithstanding, the wise will read it and be informed of every issue raised.

Meditate on what I've posted.
You are certainly a waste of time.
Bye!

MaxInDHouse:
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, souls WITHIN that you can't vouch for their line of thought, shey?
Surely you're WINNING!

I make disciples for Christ not disciples of shadeyinka or disciples of ECWA!

It is Christ Jesus who gives liberty, not any man or any organisation.

FatherOfJesus:
Terrestrial means land.

How can you even understand anything if you don’t get that?

Stupidity at its highest. Did you see me make a contrary claim?

You don't read

MaxInDHouse:
If you can comprehend it's OK!

LOL!

MaxInDHouse:
You claim being a preacher and teacher of God's word without JWs nah, so go out there and make disciples with what you know about Jesus!

I give thanks to Christ for His grace to win souls for Him everywhere He had placed me!

FatherOfJesus:
1. It’s impossible for Noah’s ark to have contained two each of all terrestrial species of the world.

The bible speak of kinds of land living animals

Gen 7:14:
"They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort."

This could be a miracle just as two pieces of fish and five loaves of bread could feed 5000. Since the food they are to eat wasn't mentioned, it's safe to say no one knows exactly how all terrestrial kinds fitted into the ark.

It would be a mere speculation to argue on this because the bible wasn't specific on the mechanism of how this happened.

FatherOfJesus:
2. Civilizations existed during that time and didn’t record any flood.

Wrong.
There are actually scores of myths of the flood all round the world

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth

I am sure that you don't know anything about the Epic of Gilgamesh or the account of Akkadian Atra-Hasis,

FatherOfJesus:
3. A global Flood would have left global archeological evidence.

Of course it did. How do you account for billions of tonnes of animal and plant buried underground resulting in the formation of crude oil and graphite and coal formation all over the world.

If the burial were gradual, then you will need to explain why no one in the last 2000 years have not found a forest buried underground with its animal species (scavengers even refused to eat them)

FatherOfJesus:
4. There are no fossilized evidence to the flood.

Your crude oil, graphite, coal, shale reservoirs are good examples

FatherOfJesus:
5. No evidence of mass migration of animals.

There are evidence of mass burials of dinosors!

Have you read about Cleveland-Lloyd Dinosaur Quarry. Scientists are still baffled why fossils of fishes and water based terrestrial animals like crocodiles are not found in such quarries (meaning that the water is not a long lasting water body) and why there is abundance of both carnivorous and herbivorous dinosaurs.

FatherOfJesus:
6. Noah’s flood story is inconsistent with water cycle

Two things happened
1. Rain for 40 days straight
2. Eruption of water from underground
Gen 6:17:
"And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters on the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die."

Gen 7:11:
"In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened."

And note that at that point the geography of the earth was completely different from today in that the tectonic plates have not yet been broken to separate the earth into the respective continents.

The earth was divided well after the flood:

Gen 10:25:
"And to Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan."

1Chr 1:19:
"And to Eber were born two sons: the name of the one was Peleg; because in his days the earth was divided: and his brother's name was Joktan."

Secondly, the climate of the earth was different from how it is now, because before the flood, there was most likely no rain as the earth was watered by mist from the ground

Gen 2:4-6:
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground."

All your questions answered!

Apart from your objection number 1, every other objection can be scientifically and logically explained.

wale377:
moment a groom warned his wedding MC against telling him and his bride to dance


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EE_jzHsTbM

Wahala dey o

Proud Armedonia!
He is the one who paid for the ceremony anyways!

This man go tough o!

I pity the wife. On the day my Aboki want to marry new a wife, no consultation: it is take it or pack out of my house!

MaxInDHouse:
Instead of humbly asking for help!

LOL!
This is exactly why Atheists see through how your empty barrel makes the loudest noise!

MaxInDHouse:
I thought you've answered the underlined based on your discretion nah!

It's okay if you cannot comprehend the meaning of "those OUTSIDE" for you are outside!

FOLYKAZE:
What is truth? I hope it's not truth only when it is your myopic viewpoint?

?

FOLYKAZE:
How do those verses debunk claims that faith is a gift?

This is Ephesians 2:8-9

New International Version
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Faith is presented as a gift from God in 2 Peter 1:1, Philippians 1:29, and Acts 3:16.

You need to start reading your own Bible.

I have not debunked that Faith for salvation is a gift. I have only told you that not all of faith is given from above. Else judgement is meaningless if faith and obedience to God is purely Given from above.

Eph 2:8-10:
"For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them."

Meaning:
Our being saved is not because we worked for it for we cannot deserve salvation. It is a gift given to us simply because we believed in God's word for our salvation. Hence, I can't get to paradise an boast of how hard I worked to deserve my entry.

The gift is not the Faith, it is the SALVATION!

2Pet 1:1:
"Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Savior Jesus Christ:"

Meaning:
The faith is obtained through the righteousness of God and our Savior Jesus Christ.
The essense of preaching the gospel is that you too can go to the SOURCE and obtain this faith. You can't reject the SOURCE and turn round to say you have been denied grace for faith.
Why do you think disciples of Christ are commanded to preach the gospel. The summary is presented below

Rom 10:14:
"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"


Phil 1:29:
"For to you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;"

Meaning:
It is our lot as Christians to both believe in Him AND suffer for His sake.



Acts 3:16:
"And his name through faith in his name has made this man strong, whom you see and know: yes, the faith which is by him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all."

Meaning:
Faith in Christ is what healed the crippled man.

Faith itself mean "TRUST in the INTEGRITY of GOD and His WORD".

Salvation is the Gift.

Finally so that you won't missunderstand me, their is ALSO a gift of Faith (as a Spiritual Gift) which NOT all Christians possess.

1Cor 12:8-9:
"For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;"

I don't usually discuss scriptures with Atheists but since you quoted Scriptures here, I decided to oblige you.

FOLYKAZE:
You are telling us this as you thought, not in accordance with the Bible.

Are you invalidating Philippians 2:13 and Proverbs 21:1? Did God not hardened Pharaoh's heart?

Is there anything impossible for God including hardening a man's heart if He chooses?
But that isn't the norm!

Just like God heals, but it isn't the norm. God can kill, but it isn't the norm. God even specifically decide to save some people (eg. Saul who became Paul) but it isn't the norm

FOLYKAZE:
Off to work, catch you later..

Cheers and wish the the best of today!

MaxInDHouse:
Undoubtedly one of us is within (insider) while the other is without (outsider)

Jesus introduced this system to a Jewish ruler who came to him, Jesus asked the man to FOLLOW him! Luke 18:18-23
This doesn't mean always going about with Jesus otherwise Jesus wouldn't have approved a disciple who wasn't going about along with Jesus and his Apostles {Mark 9:38-39; Luke 9:49-50} rather it means having the same line of thought with Jesus and his disciples {Matthew 12:46-49}


Now i present to you those with whom i served together as insiders who are well ORGANIZED and HUMBLY learning like Jesus' followers so that they could have the same line of thought as people WITHIN (INSIDERS) They are globally known as JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! John 17:20-23

Please Sir can you also PRESENT those with whom you're together WITHIN (INSIDERS) having the same line of thought as you do?

Because the last time i discussed with you you said Church doctrine doesn't define you! meaning people shouldn't count you as having the same line of thought along with members of your Church ECWA. So who are your fellow believers WITHIN? 1Corinthians 14:33, 40

Long English to invalidate what is simple

Mar 4:11:
"And he said to them, To you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but to them that are without , all these things are done in parables:"

Who are those outside Christ?

MaxInDHouse:
Excellent idea!
So go and teach your atheist neighbours exactly what you just said, they'll surely accept your Jesus!

It's your thought that:

Jesus cried because He was waking up a sleeping Lazarus!?
Jesus was powerless over death, so He cried!?

And it is a seriously Pitiful train of thought!

MaxInDHouse:
This is the question i asked you from the beginning:


So you aren't smart enough to make me answer my own question if you're not ready to plead!


God's word said Jesus CRIED due to SORROW caused by DEATH, so if DEATH could bring out tears from Jesus' eyes then DEATH is EVIL.

As simple as ABC!

Jesus cried because He was waking up a sleeping Lazarus!?
Jesus was powerless over death, so He cried!?

Pitiful train of thought!

MaxInDHouse:
Why mocking yourself nah?

You're saying you want to apply Jesus' style of teaching while chatting with ATHEISTS who don't believe in the existence of God. Abeg was Jesus chatting with ATHEISTS or WORSHIPERS of the same God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

My friend, i've told you times without number that the Bible belongs to Jehovah's Witnesses, you can never understand anything in that book if you despise us.

For your information, Jesus was talking about a barrier between stubborn but misinformed religionsts like you and honest hearted and humble people who are willing to learn.

Both Jesus and his listeners were all Abraham's descendants (believers in the writings of inspired prophets) not atheists so you're wrong Sir!

It's okay if you can comprehend the meaning of "those OUTSIDE" for you are outside

Mar 4:11:
"And he said to them, To you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but to them that are without , all these things are done in parables:"

It's not the first the you'll avoid answering questions whenever it dawns on you that you have goofed

MaxInDHouse:
The subject matter here is Jesus wept because DEATH brought sorrow, so DEATH is EVIL!


Naaaaaaaaaaaaa i won't help you answer the question i asked you, if you will not humbly ask for my assistance!


I only poked your bubble of fallacy before those atheists so they could clearly see your folly, of course my Jesus is not your Jesus nah!

Your own Jesus is the cry-cry personage afraid of death.

My Jesus is one who created ALL things including Death, Grave, Hell and Lake of Fire.

mu2sa2:
The Jews are the worst war- mongers on earth. A Jewish child is trained to regard non-jews as inferior to jews.Today Christians and muslims are second-class people in Isreal. To jews your life is worthless if you are not a jew and you can be wasted.
Israelis are still basking in the myth that Israel is undefeatable. But Hezbollah's definition of victory is narrow: to inflict strategic damage on the enemy is all they need to declare victory. Just a few days ago a missile fired from Syria landed near a nuclear site in Isreal. While Isreal has built a strong military over the years, they should know that their enemies aren't sleeping either.

How many wars of Aggression has the Jews fought since 1948?

Don't colour your judgement with Islam!

MaxInDHouse:
OK so they find the discussion with you logical shey?
When did atheists (who rely on visible proofs) began reasoning logically with religionsts whose beliefs can't be verified with instant physical logics?
But you've been chatting with them for almost a week now until i came in with my illogicalities to scare them away while your own discussion with them was based on logics!
Why do you love deceiving yourself?

Because just like my master Jesus, I use parables to illustrate the Spiritual to them. I also use science and logic (not for the reason of preaching, for the gospel is for those who will listen).

Mat 13:10:
"And the disciples came, and said to him, Why speak you to them in parables?"

Mat 13:35:
"That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables ; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world."

Mar 4:11:
"And he said to them, To you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but to them that are without, all these things are done in parables:"

But ignorant people will follow the doctrine of their human organisation to speak to those who actively reject the gospel and when their senselessness is made apparent, they rejoice that they have won an argument.

MaxInDHouse:
OK he mourned with people because they were mourning due to what?

If DEATH is not evil please what brought about the mourning (sorrow) in the first instance?

God promised a time when DEATH will be NO MORE {Revelations 21:4} because it was a cause for MOURNING. So why will God remove what you term as a blessing? Isaiah 25:8

Is Jesus still a cry-cry personage?

If Lazarus was sleeping and Jesus was to wake him up, why would Jesus weep?

Our Jesus are different. Your own Jesus is afraid of death because death doesnt fall into the "all other things" your warped translation said Jesus created.

I am appalled at your depth of lack of knowledge about my Jesus!

MaxInDHouse:
They are running away from the true Christian that intervened in their discussion with you, they would have continue chatting but with a real Christian around they can't help it but to run away.

Imagine someone publicly said an angel came to rescue him but the same person doesn't want to talk about God, so who sent the so called angel?

That's why he's running away!

So don't think most people running away from us does so because we've come to hurt them but it's the light they don't want! John 3:19


Come and learn how to beat the intelligence of unbelievers from the true Christians "JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES"

I had to terminate a discussion with an atheist who was forming the knowlege of science but is at best of JSS3 level in knowlege and understanding. It is a complete waste of time.

So also with your kind. When an atheist sees how unreasonable and illogical you are, they have no choice than to shut down. And here you are forming victory because your illogicality is beyond endurance

MaxInDHouse:
Before he faced death the perfect man already knew that it's only sinful humans that are liable to oldage, sickness and death, Jesus can't fall sick, grow old or die if he wasn't KILLED.

So Jesus who came to die for mankind's sin knew perfectly that without execution his death can't come through sickness or oldage. That's why he never resurrect any old man or woman!

That been so, is it your Jesus that CRIED when Lazarus died or another Jesus? John 11:35

Since you don't know my Jesus but you only know of one cry-cry pasonage you call Jesus, let me show Him to you

Heb 4:15-16
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need."

Jesus feels our pain. Why should Jesus weep when He knew of a CERTAINTY that "Lazarus was sleeping". For you, death is hopeless for Jesus, death is just a sleep.

How does that align with your cry-cry Jesus who cries because he doesn't want to die with Jesus empathising with mourners at the funeral of Lazarus.

What was the conclusion of people when they saw that Jesus wept?
John 11:36
"Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!"

But you, you attribute Jesus weeping with fear of death!

I am truely disgusted. Only an atheist can have this line of thought

MaxInDHouse:
You can run Shadeyinka but you can't hide!

You've been saying the same thing over and over simply because you can't explain why Jesus the founder of Christianity cried like a baby because of DEATH.
Instead of running from pillar to post why not address that first?

Your own angel micheal was afraid of death, so he cried like a baby!?

Look at what my own Jesus did and said:

Mat 26:38-39
"Then said he to them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even to death: tarry you here, and watch with me. And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as you will."

What Cup? Death or the process accompanying death? This include the physical pain of crucifixion, the spiritual dirtiness of carrying the sin of the whole world, the though of the Father "forsaking" the Son on the cross, etc

Since you do not know, my Jesus released his spirit at death

Luk 23:46
"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into your hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. "

My own Jesus was in control, not even death. I can understand why your own Jesus was crying like a baby because of fear of dying.


My own Jesus speaking to us his disciples gave the instruction below
Luk 12:4
"And I say to you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do."

If the Master Himself said this, He was a perfect example to be followed.

Please, we don't serve the same Jesus. Yours is the cry-cry Jesus: my Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. Through whom all things INCLUDING death was made.

Disgusting thoughts from one who claims to witness for God

FOLYKAZE:
Is that what your pastor taught you or your thought?

It's the truth you despise!

FOLYKAZE:
Faith is said to be a gift from God, that is it cannot attained through natural means but through supernatural interventions and divine grace, how can atheists who view the world through natural means have faith when God has not graced him that benefit. Atheists only reject what you and larger Christian folks presented, not God interventions.

It is good you are accepting agnostics who are faithless should not be blame. I can also argue that atheists too shouldn't be blamed, maybe you, MaxInDHouse and the entire christian folks should. Why?

If faith is purely a gift, then the scripture below is meaningless

Mar 11:22
"And Jesus answering said to them, Have faith in God."

1Tim 5:12
"Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith."


I didn't say agnostics don't have a portion of their blame, the point is that their chastisement cannot be like those who REJECTED the notion of God.

FOLYKAZE:
Will is an illusion. It is entirely controlled by God, and as such cannot be free. As the philosopher stated, "free is cause of itself". Therefore, whatever is moved by another is not free. According to the bible, God controls our will;
Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Therefore, the rejection of God existence is firstly, deprivation of atheists divine grace and gift ; secondly, it is God owns doing as he totalling control will, been the first cause of will.

God wired the heart of Pharaoh and turned around to punish Pharaoh, his subjects and kill innocent children who contribute nothing to Pharaoh decisions. Meanwhile God hardwired him himself. Same applies to atheists. The circus doesn't make sense.

Why then is it a WILL and not CONSTRAINTS?

Your will is the your expression of your DESIRE. It is free for you to express.

Do you truely believe that your WILL constrained by God?

Why then is their judgement of the expression of your Will?

FOLYKAZE:
Forget about chastisement, reading that from you and MaxInDHouse present you guys as poor thinkers... Everything shall be chastised. Go and read your Bible and orthodox tradition, with that, you would have come across Apocatastasis and Colossians 1:17-20.

Apocatastasis, an idea started by Origen and popularized by St. Gregory of Nyssa postulate that hell punishment is practically more gold refinement which is burn to remove dross from it. It is not entirely a punishment all by itself but a process of refining and returning everything to holy Glories, peace and cooperation with God.

Lamentations 3:31 For the LORD will not cast off for ever:
3:32 But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.
3:33 For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.

Reading further 1 Corinthians 15:28, you would find Paul state there is an end to evil, the act not the actor. When God is all in all, evil would be removed like dross from gold in the furnace, not the actor gangan.

Meanwhile, this idea was shot down with the famous anathemas pronounced at the Council of Constantinople in 543CE and church sold some nonsensical chastisement of sinners to you. Go and read bro.

I shouldn't be in position showing you all these. Make findings by yourself and the truth shall set you free.

Peace and bye

See you quoting men you don't even believe in like your justifications depend on it. LOL!
I guess those are the ideas that helped you to throw away any iota of faith that used to be inside you.

If God truely exist and God is Just, should he punish rapists, murderers and others who manage to escape justice on earth?

MaxInDHouse:
Those born again Christians were talking about what Jesus promised them after their earthly course. But as for DEATH IT IS EVIL!
That's what brought tears out of Jesus' eyes! John 11:35
The atheists you're chatting with weren't even talking about born again Christians rather they're lamenting on the untimely death of billions of people who have died in the past. So in what way does the hope of born again Christians correlates with their quest?
That's why you're complicating things for them.
They will continue to mock you with thought provoking questions as they've discovered several loopholes in your analysis!
They've tried the same with me but discovered their problems began with wrong information they got from misinformed Churchgoers. So they don't engage me out of fear that if they should continue listening they may end up becoming JWs. And that's what they don't want!

2 Corinthians 5:8
"Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord.

No one as described the process of death as pleasant but death itself is homecoming. Death is unconsciousness only by Atheists and JW's.

You both share the same father and source. QED!

Acehart:
Restitution is a biblical concept; it is to be a result of our salvation—it is not a requirement for salvation. There are passages in both Old and New Testaments that reveal the mind of God on this subject. In the Old Testament, the Israelites were under the Law, which specified restitution in a variety of circumstances: “If a man steals an ox or a sheep and slaughters it or sells it, he must pay back five head of cattle for the ox and four sheep for the sheep. . . . A thief must certainly make restitution, but if he has nothing, he must be sold to pay for his theft. If the stolen animal is found alive in his possession—whether ox or donkey or sheep—he must pay back double. If a man grazes his livestock in a field or vineyard and lets them stray and they graze in another man’s field, he must make restitution from the best of his own field or vineyard. If a fire breaks out and spreads into thornbushes so that it burns shocks of grain or standing grain or the whole field, the one who started the fire must make restitution. . . If a man borrows an animal from his neighbor and it is injured or dies . . . he must make restitution” (Exodus 22:1, 3-6, 14).

Leviticus 6:2-5 covers other situations in which the stolen property is restored, plus one fifth of the value. Also of note in this passage, the restitution was made to the owner of the property (not to the government or any other third party), and the compensation was to be accompanied by a guilt offering to the Lord. The Mosaic Law, then, protected victims of theft, extortion, fraud, and negligence by requiring the offending parties to make restitution. The amount of remuneration varied anywhere from 100 to 500 percent of the loss. The restitution was to be made on the same day that the guilty one brought his sacrifice before the Lord, which implies that making amends with one’s neighbor is just as important as making peace with God.

In the New Testament, we have the wonderful example of Zacchaeus in Luke 19. Jesus is visiting Zacchaeus’s home, and the people who know the chief publican to be a wicked and oppressive man are beginning to murmur about His associating with a sinner (verse 7). “But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, ‘Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.’ Jesus said to him, ‘Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost’” (verses 8-10). From Zacchaeus’s words, we gather that:

1) he had been guilty of defrauding people,
2) he was remorseful over his past actions, and
3) he was committed to making restitution.

From Jesus’ words, we understand that:

1) Zacchaeus was saved that day and his sin was forgiven, and
2) the evidence of his salvation was both his public confession (see Romans 10:10) and his relinquishing of all ill-gotten gains.

Zacchaeus repented, and his sincerity was evident in his immediate desire to make restitution. Here was a man who was penitent and contrite, and the proof of his conversion to Christ was his resolve to atone, as much as possible, for past sins.

The same holds true for anyone who truly knows Christ today. Genuine repentance leads to a desire to redress wrongs. When someone becomes a Christian, he will have a desire born of deep conviction to do good, and that includes making restoration whenever possible. The idea of “whenever possible” is crucially important to remember. There are some crimes and sins for which there is no adequate restitution. In such instances, a Christian should make some form of restitution that demonstrates repentance, but at the same time, does not need to feel guilty about the inability to make full restitution. Restitution is to be a result of our salvation—it is not a requirement for salvation. If you have received forgiveness of sins through faith in Jesus Christ, all of your sins are forgiven, whether or not you have been able to make restitution for them.

https://www.gotquestions.org/restitution-Bible.html

2 Corinthians 5:19, 21: God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, .., He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Now that I am born again, How do I restitute for putting on trousers and painting my lips and fingernails?

TooMuchStuff:
Restitution is part of genuine repentance towards God and man!
If you are an ex-cultist or witch that killed people whose grieving families are still in pains and u just say your prayer of salvation then boom you think you are now Born again ....! no sir... you're not
Until you confess to the victims families and get their approval or forgiveness before you can boldly say you are born again indeed

Guiltless Conscience town God and man backup with water baptism is what born again means
You can't be driving the Car you stole after killing the owner to Church or anywhere and you claim you are now in Christ Jesus..... No sir...

You have just made the sacrifice of Christ useless if it ALSO depend on restitution for it to be effective.
Not everything can be restituted my brother.

John 8:36:
"If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed."

John 8:11:
"She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said to her, Neither do I condemn you: go, and sin no more."

I'm sure you would have added restitution to the burden of this woman caught in adultry!

Janosky:
To
Is Daniel 10:13, 2 Thess1:7-9, Matthew 25:31, Hebrew 1:4-5 missing in your Bible ?
Who leads other sons of God in your Bible ?
Revelation 12:7,9 & 1 John 3:8 who fulfilled the prophetic decree in Genesis 3:15 ?

Your 3 idol spirits devotees brethren ,Wesley Notes , Geneva Bible Commentary & Trapp's Commentary on Daniel 10:13 (plus others)

Bros, shine your eyes.

Heb 1:13-14:
"But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstoo? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?"

Mar 12:36-37:
"For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit you on my right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool. David therefore himself calls him Lord; and from where is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly."