₦airaland Forum

while young i dreamt of being a football superstar, alas that dream vanished as i grew older

Oahray: she simply quoted the Bible to show that it is necessary for a husband to love his wife and for a wife to be submissive in contrast to the attitudes described above it.

The first part of the op is talking of what is obtainable in practice. The chicken and egg situation (if both depend on each other, which comes first) of this first part is what gives rise to her question, not the verses she quoted.

The Bible merely set rules for each partner in no particular order. There's no where in the context of those verses that shows that both are linked and that one must be a result of the other. So when I try to bring in all practical factors that influence submission and insist love doesn't play a big role, what's my offence?

The emphases should be on husband /wife rship but you digressed a bit. However i agree with those practical factor that influence submission. Love on its own does not equate or bring about submission, but I'm saying maybe to an extent it does

Oahray: smh... Submission is as much a part of all facets of life and relationships as much as love is. It's present before marriage and during marriage. Your point is that if you love someone, you'd always submit to the person. My point is that love is not the reason people submit.

Let's even pretend marriage has unique psychological rules that doesn't apply elsewhere. Does this mean that every husband who loves his wife would submit to her?

Not exactly!

My point is chances are higher that someone who loves you will submit to you more than someone who submits to you would love you.

Reason being that someone loves you simply cos of love ie sometimes some inexplicable reasons, but someone submits to you simply cos the person is scared, intimidated, threat etc and not because of personal will to submit

Oahray: explain the part where parents love their children and therefore would submit to them.

I repeat, submission comes from either fear or respect. Fear comes from threat/duress. Respect comes from acknowledging authority. Love doesn't delegate authority. It simply provides a sense of security for the one who submits. Authority is delegated by religion, the societal norm (e.g age), financial power (and one's dependence), intellect, etc.

Why do you think it's harder for a wife who earns way more than her husband to submit to him than when she earns less? Does earning more make her love him less? In a relationship where two people love each other to bits, only one party is submissive. Be more observant. Life is more of practical than theory.

Im a realist, i hardly believe in theories anyways.

The thread focused on biblical instructions, thus the question which one should come first, love or submission? You are bringing a new angle to this entirely to this by mentioning money and authority and i do not think the op sought for the diversion.

Practically, you are right that submission/love is a product of money authority in the real world to an extent especially in our part of the world but again i have to remind you that the op was strictly speaking or asking biblically which should come first and it was on that context that i made my inititial comment on this thread

Sophyrocks: Nope.

Aiit!

tintingz: There are cartoons/animations that are meant for adults.

It is entertaining.

sure i have heard about adult cartoons before, it just surprises me that some adults love it, its good thou, we cant all like the same thing

Crystalline: Yes, i'm here...and taking note of all ur comments.

Thanks y'all for taking out time to comment, GOD bless you all.

for the sake of those trying to outsmart themselves and clarity, please tell us are you talking about a husband/wife relationship or parent-to-child rship? thanks

Oahray: Your first paragraph shows that you have no idea what submission means.

Your second paragraph shows you make statements without giving thought to the implication. You made a general statement about love but are shocked that I singled out parents and children? Who does that? If love makes us submit, and parents don't submit to their grown children, does it mean they stopped loving them?

To start with for the sake of clarity, the thread bordered on husband/wife relationship, which was why the op quoted some verses that said husband love....., wives submit...and it was in that context that i mede my inputs. It was never on parent/child relationship but rather on spousal relationship.

I only tried to give a clear, concise explanation when you narrowed it down to parent/child rship, thinking you have something meaningful you are trying to drive at. God back to page1 read the ops question again and digest it so you can understand very well the context in which she's talking about love and submission

Sophyrocks: Seriously? Hahahaha. Lip sealed once more.

lol...have i said anything out of the ordinary?

Oahray: explain the part where parents love their children and therefore submit to them.

Parents are expected to love their children which is unarguable. Talking about submitting to them, you can also submit to your kids when they are still infants/toddlers, (you can liken that to submitting under duress) you tend to do their bidding cos no parent would like to see his/her child crying for ice cream, bobo drink or corn flakes. Sometimes even when you may feel the child is eating too much or demanding too much to eat, you tend to submit to his/her wishes cos you cant watch a child cry and disturb you for such necessities and do nothing especially if its something you have to do otherwise you wont have peace.

My point is, you are bound to provide for your children and show them love but you cant submit to your adult children. Cant even remember making a statement about submitting to your children

Sophyrocks: I see. Okies. well, lets just agree to disagree here.

And we disagree to agree ....as i look forward to another self explanatory comment

Sophyrocks: When i say religious, i meant people who are sooooo churchy with all their religious brouhaha yet their lifestyles makes you wanna puke. Same thing Jesus hated the pharisees for. He termed it HYPOCRISY. They make the loudest noise and judge the most. Disturbing their neighbors with noise every night and morning. I like been real and want the same for my husband thats it.

As for the bolded, Lip sealed.

Oh hypocrisy is one thing i detest like mad. @bolded those are the kind of people that will go to church in the morning and visit dibia at dark

Just keep the lip sealed and i detest pretence too. Erm..... hope I'm being real enough thou

Sophyrocks: I get you. Fine. We are imperfect and we do sin. we preach and still we sin. But if a sin has a destination thats worthy of destroying you, would you continue in it? The main point is allow your conscience to work. Dnt make it dead simply because the society wants it so. A lot of people are 'testing before buying' and yet that satisfaction and happiness is still not there. Why? Testing up down leading to stds, endless abortions, rise in single mothers, who are the same people bearing the brunts?

Well, we all have different understanding of moral values. We love to select some and trash out the rest but yet still lament when things go wrong. Lets just admit that God's wisdom is unmatchable and ours is foolishness. Our conscience should not be dead simply because we are imperfect. God's principles are for our benefit. they are not stumbling blocks.

You are right! Gods wisdom is unrivalled, i agree we should be guided by our conscience and that our moral values should not be compromised, i am nit in any way trying to discourage moral forthrightness but only bringing to fur the reality of our world which you will also agree with me concerning certain things when compared to the practical realities on ground viz a viz biblical teachings.

Its not about testing u and down, but like i said couples who are at variance with their sex drive will have problems, we have seen women list sexxual satisfaction and performance as a prerequisite for a choice of partner, so if she goes ahead practically appreciating the partners sexual prowess before marriage does that negate her moral values? NO! Its about appreciating who we are and not making any pretence about it, that's why i talked earlier about practical realities

Sophyrocks:

You are such a mentally balanced man. Of course yes, if we women want love, we must submit. Which is why i advise ladies to amrry whom they can easily be submissive to.

For example, I can NEVER be submissve to an an arrogant, Hitler-wanna be, unrepentant Cheat. MBANU!! Which is why i woulld go for a humble man who has the fear of God in him, not a religious man oooo. Who takes the vows of marriage very seriously, who has a conscience that adultery is a sin.

You see, if you have moral values, you should go for someone of your kind, who sees marriage the same way you do. If you take marriage seriously, do not ever marry someone who sees it as a sham to please society.

Thanks!

Exactly! couples should marry partners who have same mindset about marriage and the moral values they attach to it. fair enough!

@bolded, i also do not like a partner who is too religious, kinda sucks and takes away the flavour of social life and limited fun. Every other thing you said, i concur with. Heck i think we kinda have the same mindset on this issue of marriage, you seem to be my colour, this time i am beginning to love you, this is not a joke

Sophyrocks: If you truly a christian and are interested in a meaningful marriage, you will NOT live yor life accordng to societal dictations. Whose dictations are better, God or Man? You decide. Afterall, marriage is of God and not of society. Follow societal demands at your own risk!! A lot of people are suffering it already. You wanna join the

bandwagon?

I saw this coming, i'll be very forthright and plain.

The same Bible says we should abstain from sexxxx before marriage, even some of us hypocritically preach it but are not able to walk the talk, so who is fooling who? This is the kind of societal dictates I'm talking about, couples would want to marry partners with whom they are sexually compatible and I'm sure even you would not want shy away from that fact, so its not about joining the bandwagon, lets say it as it is.

Hope you get where im coming from?...lol

Sophyrocks:
I give you 10/10.

So what is wrong with applying such principle of Jesus into the marriage? Many men think applying such makes them less than Men. Going by that principle, if you wouldnt want your wife to cheat on you, why cheat on her? Does cheating on your wife show Honor? As the Head, isnt it expected that you should Lead by example same way Christ does? Can you see why submission is very hard to come by? If jesus was very abusive and showed very bad examples, do you think we christians would find it easy to follow him? This goes to show that before a woman can easily submit to you, you must have shown yourself WORTHY of that submission.

Anyways, this goes both ways for both husbands and wives. Both men and women need to know and understand their roles properly before they get married.

lol...You just balanced your view with the bolded, and i couldn't agree any less, your rhetorics before then centered on men..men..men. Just as before a man can easily love you, you must have shown yourself WORTHY of that love, agreed , its a two-way thing, the reason i said it should be reciprocal and thanks for scoring me maximum marks

Its good trying to imbibe Biblical teachings in our daily lives and in the way we treat others even though its not as easy as it sounds, but we equally will need to adjust accordingly to societal dictates and practical realities in some other things

[quote author=@farano]Who cares![/quote]Jesus cares!

business men indeed!

pls take back your people so they don't introduce their senseless haram down south. nonsense

Sophyrocks:

I see. You will be surprised that upon all i have said, some men will stiill tag me a Feminist. I think such men are abusive and do not like the fact that their unbalanced mentality has been exposed.

But you have not answered my question. What does 'Do to others what you would like them to do to you' mean?

whoever goes ahead to tag you a feminist isn't been fair and objective

Well it simply means being reciprocal in actions and deeds, treat others well to be treated well. Hope i score 10/10?

But seriously what is no 5 doing there? and whats special about virginity? its just overrated. who needs a virgin anyway?

Yemlizzy: These things are indeed silly!

How many have you done? be sincere

Sophyrocks: No1) am not a feminist beccause i believe in a husband being the Head and the way he is to be the Head is the same way Christ is the head of the congregation. If he isnt exercising headship the same way christ is, then he is being somethng else.

2) What does the phrase 'Do to others what you would like them to do to you' mean?

3) Mutual respect is essential in marriage. It was also written that husbands should show honor to their wives. There are many ways to show honor. Even the way you handle the marriage shows honor or no honor. I think that itself is explanatory.

you and explanatory
The bolded answered my question, and all these you mentioned, i acknowledge and appreciate.

I am beginning to like you

[quote author=@farano]If dah his engagement ring passes one week without him paying my bride price, I'll just sell it..[/quote]bla...bla....bla....story story

azah88: I don't understand oooo...

what don't you understand?

Sophyrocks: Exactly. I think before a lady marries a man, she must ask the man what he thinks submission is because different people have different ideas as to what submission really is. Its funny that its mostly abusive men who harp into this submission thing. you will be surprised to hear that a woman who is naturally submissive still gets complains from her abusive husband that she isnt still submissive. SMH. No wonder that word "Submission" makes some women cringe.

submission simply means respect to your partner, unfortunately some women do think that everything concerning a couple should be 50-50, i hope you are not a feminist?

stello: How is it possible to submit to a man who does not love you!! In all I think love sould come first

thank you jare, your head dey there

Oahray: if as you say, love cannot exist without submission, but submission can exist without love, how come you say submission follows love naturally?

Your premise is greatly flawed anyway. Love doesn't not make one submissive, else parents would be submissive to their children. Submission simply comes from the acceptance (conscious or subconscious) that someone else is superior. Submission is a natural reaction to either fear or respect.

I think its you who is missing the point.

I repeat and i insist, with love, submission will follow naturally, in order words if you love someone, its almost guaranteed you'll be submissive, but you can be submissive without necessarily loving a person.

Now to the bolded in your comment, it simply means you agree with me that you can submit to someone out if fear, respect, duress etc and not out of love meaning you can be submissive without an iota of love, but once you love someone, you are most likely to be submissive.

bottom line: love comes before submission, if you love, you'll submit, but if you submit, you dont necessarily love

op learn to stop generalising when making such comments. i for one love to cuddle and still caress further after 5ex, so its not all men that face the walland dose off, besides there are women who also just want to wear their clothes after you ejaculate, no more cuddling and carresing, they are like 'shebi u don fvck finish na, wetin again'?

its not bad to have a passive neighbour

its understadable cos theyre are kids and like amusing things, the one wey deey vex me be say you'll see matured men and women watching cartoon....nonsense

op thanks for awakening the minds of 'some' women and telling them the truth.

Some women actually expect men to go down there with their tongue even when its bushy.....twuaaahh :>(

Sophyrocks: Okies. Such spending is proportional to financial status though. The higher your earnings, the more you spend.

you right, depends on the degree of income/earnings

azah88: true I have seen it happening.. Makes me wonder at times.

na so we see am