@Icraft and ewizard1

Very good work you have. Just as you've mentioned lithium ion can catch fire if not properly built and monitor... But I'll advice to start building LFP(Lifepo4) cells with good packaging and quality BMS.

They are much safer and don't catch fire like their counterparts.

Barezzi:
So no hope for folks like me with average loads in the KW range

There's hope for you sir!

You just need a budget, then work with it and if cash flow get as e be, then you chill for a while and plan ahead...

Hoping to have you amongst the LFP family soon Sir.

ewizard1:

I love to call it Pack, as it is made up of several cells in parallel. All cells were well processed and each pack have very close voltages.

With the BMS, yes I know. I already installed and enjoying my battery before my BMS arrived and I'm feeling lazy to install it. Since my packs are already doing well without it.

To build and sell? Yes I intend to but would be so difficult to.

This is quite impressive! Why is it difficult to build and sell?

ewizard1:

I love to call it Pack, as it is made up of several cells in parallel. All cells were well processed and each pack have very close voltages.

With the BMS, yes I know. I already installed and enjoying my battery before my BMS arrived and I'm feeling lazy to install it. Since my packs are already doing well without it.

To build and sell? Yes I intend to but would be so difficult to.

This is very impressive! Why is it difficult to build and sell?

ewizard1:
Nice one there. LifePo4 batteries are the deal. I run a DIY 18650 Li-ion battery system, no BMS but doing good.

Nice to have you here! How do you balance the cell voltage? I think you will have a better build with BMS.

Do you intend to build and sell?

DUNKA:
please what capacity of lithium batteries will replace eight ( 200 ah flooded batteries?

I guess your 8×200ah batteries are configured in 4S 2P at 48V 400AH. If that's correct your lithium ion configuration will be 2units of 48V 200AH to be connected in parallel.

But in real sense, since Lithium battery capacity can double lead acid battery capacity you can do a unit of 48V 200AH ~ 10KW.

You can contact me for a good deal!

Im2Busy2Bother:


Thanks a lot. You rock. Hope you are enjoying your lithium battery.

You're welcome sir!
Yes, really enjoying LFP die!!

Im2Busy2Bother:


It is a 12v system, the battery spec sheet said it can be charged to 15v, but I thought that was a little bit of a stretch as I've seen many LFP rating to be that of 14.6V




Can you share the link where you bought this charger? Thank you.

Mine came with the battery but, its similar to this one: https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32885613130.html?pid=808_0000_0101&spm=a2g0n.search-amp.list.32885613130&aff_trace_key=&aff_platform=msite&m_page_id=56amp-qoV0m0yoHCFCyt76LXrS9Q1580375075349&browser_id=03c28e6a32d14efea3d87b895d3f66e5&is_c=Y

You can order this one if the charging current does not exceed your battery charging current.

ojeysky:


You may want to ensure not to charge lifpo4 at that high voltage if lifespan is of importance. Here is another writeup that further confirms this: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://2n1s7w3qw84d2ysnx3ia2bct-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Lithium-Iron-Phosphate-LiFePO4-Generic-Charge-Settings.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjy4P6M5annAhVPilwKHeWoDQ0QFjAZegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw0YeP6Q7vas8DXPnnDzE3tn&cshid=1580334738676

Sir! I can boldly say base on CC/CV charging sequence of LFP the charging voltage you'll find on most LFP chargers for 12V LFP battery are rated 14.6V what you really need to pay attention to is the charging current, make sure the current does not go higher than that stated on the battery parameter.

How ever, BMS play a very important role in LFP for cell balancing, over voltage and over current protection, etc...

You may need to intensify your research to be sure. It is for this reason some inverters and CC are built with LFP charge options and once you select it then you can't modiify it. It will charge according to the battery voltage.

In my case, my LFP charger is 14.6V 20A CC/CV and my battery does not change above 14.4V.

You can read through this: https://enerdrive.com.au/2017/11/29/can-charge-lithium-battery-lead-acid-charger/

Im2Busy2Bother:
I'm looking for a charger which I can use to charge a LiFePO4 battery with a maximum charge voltage of 15v. Also, can anyone please suggest a good inverter for LiFePO4 batteries for 12V system or 24V system. You guys are doing an amazing job here. Thank you all.

Lifepo4 chargers are actually rated at 14.6V for 12V Lifepo4 battery but what is most important is the continues charging current design for your battery. You will get the right charger if you can state you battery voltage and charge current.

For inverter, any pure wave sine inverter will work fine as long as you're not using it to charge your Lifepo4 battery. Also, you battery voltage will determine whether your inverter will be 12V or 24V

earthrealm:
thanks gents for the suggestions.
seems the dc pump is a better option. am wondering if anyone is running such, lemme tap from his experience.
2ndly is the pump easily available in nigeria? or aliexpress..hence the need to purchase 2 pumps, incase of 1 going bad

3rdly, can i hook it up directly to the solar panel, without battery?

4thly, if answer to 3 is yes, i am considering retaining the old inverter setup, however the output from the panels will be split into 2, one going to sumo...the other going to the CC of the existing setup

i wish to automate the whole system, with auto flow shut off, so the system will be independent of human input, as setup is in the village. a regulator will be installed in the tank to cut off power...when tank is full...and also activate power when the water gets to a certain level.

the water demand is minimal, say 200 liters daily, so a 2k liters tank shud last 1wk or so. borehole depth is btw 80ft to 130ft. most pumps are rated flow/hr like 2000ltrs/hr...or 30L/minute , can i simply divide by 24hrs to calc the hourly flow rate....abi the pump is designed to work 24/7??

My experience is not with the DC version. I have the AC version that has been in use for over 3years, capable of pumping water directly from the bore hole to the house with power of 135W, but in my case I have a 4000L tank installed on the ground I use the pump to boost water pressure to the house directly. Pumps works automatically as long as there's power, it only comes on when ever tap or shower fucet is turned on.

You can search for it around but the many options are buying from China. Available on Aliexperess but very expensive.

Yes you can hook it up directly. The sump spec I sent you comes with it's regulator for solar input.

I can't say how that will work splitting the output of your existing setup to feed the pump. But, if you get a pump with less power consumption, it will do you well to install a seperate panel to it.

Introducing an auto switch is great. Makes it independent but since it is solar dependant, pump will only turn on when the sun is up and shining.

Any with a 2000ltr/day and above should be fine. Attention should be more focused on the depth of the borehole the deeper the more powerful the pump should be.

earthrealm:
am looking for a budget install for borehole water supply.1k or 2k liters tank
am looking at 3 options. has anyone deployed any of the options listed , or has a superior option to recommend to me.

note: 2 x 250w panel , 850va luminous hybrid inverter, 12v 200ah quanta battery, 12/24v 100voc fangpusun 50aD mppt CC already exists in the house

option 1: get a dc sumo pump and power it directly from solar panels fitted with overflow regulator

option 2: get a normal 0.75hp or 0.5hp sumo pump, get 2 x 12v 200ah batts or equivalent LIPO4 and 4 to 6 units of 250w panels, with a 2kva or 2.4kva hybrid inverter with surge capability

option 3: get a battreyless inverter and connect the sumo in option 2 directly. 6 x 250w panels needed

Option one will be very cost effective as it will take away the cost of inverter, CC and battery. You only need to buy a DC pump. Look at the PIC if you may have interest in any...

Note: for option one you may have to consider your storage tank to be of large capacity so it can cover up for cloudy days.

Ok, a brief load test of television, decoder, fan, home theatre and refrigerator was done with load wattage total about 200watts.

Observation:
Battery voltage at start of test was 13.1V and when all load was powered on the system, battery voltage dropped to 12.8V.

Test started at 3:05pm system run till 5:30pm when grid power was restored and system switched.
System worked for 2hrs 25mins and battery voltage was at 12.7V. Voltage went back to 13.0V after load transfer.

Still will run this test again and see how long it can last on it's own.

At this point I can say with a 600w solar panel system can go for 24hrs un interrupted. Just want to satisfy my curiosity with a full load test, to at least tell how much the system can withstand then I can draw a logical conclusion on Lifepo4.

For now all is well and I'm enjoying value for my money...

BOLA625:
I will like to know more about these project ,I am interested in it.

Welcome on board!

The project has been a success and still under testing and review...
So it's going to be a long one and hoping I'll be having others replicating the system and posting their own experience here soon.

Hope you'll join the family too?

ojeysky:


The experiment seem to say otherwise and on the basis that it's not good to always charge an LFP to 100% I think between 13.6 and 13.8 may be better in the long run.

I quite agree with you in the sense that LFP doesn't really need to be charged 100% full.
Even at 14.4V it's still not at 100% that is why the BMS is very important to see that the battery doesn't achieve a 100% full charge, keeping it at 95% - 99% charged.

Its wise to keep your charge voltage under due to fact that your charging device may not have LFP charge function.

I just hope our LFP BMS are top notch to be able to save us from unforeseen situations that may arise due to mistakes or faulty chargers.

If you have opportunity to get a full charge is a plus since it's around 3.6V per cell and still very safe and doesn't affect battery life.

Hello house!

It's been quiet here, hope we still have the Lifepo4 spirit

My setup still doing very fantastic as I draw close to the second month of installation... So far the load during the day has been between 55w to 80w for 7hrs to 10hrs and system is been very healthy keeping battery at within 30% - 50% DOD.

Battery working voltage is at 13.1V and down to 12.6V on 77w load for 7hrs to 10hrs on days when PHCN decide to be wicked...

Currently planning to run a full load test of 200w and see how long it will hold...

ojeysky:


So I have been reading more about LFPs lately, it actually seems charging up to 14.5+ which is manufacturer max voltage may kill the battery faster. Charging to 13.8v (with float at 13.4 for those of us who are stuck with float settings) seem to be a sweat spot that is being suggested to put the battery.

LFPs strictly charges with constant current and constant voltage CC/CV. That means that they require a straight charge at their rated current and voltage.

However, it is the BMS that does the dirty job of making sure cells don't charge above their rated voltage and current according to cell quality.

In essence, a low grade LFP cell can do well with a good quality BMS and still last for good cycles. But, a bad BMS can kill a grade A LFP cells before it's rated cycle.

My LFP pack charges with 14.6V which is the standard charging voltage for 12V LFPs. I noticed that even at that charging voltage, my battery does not charge above 14.4V. Which explains that the BMS cut's off charging at 14.4V ensuring that cells don't charge above that voltage which could be detrimental to the cells.

That's why BMS is very important in lithium battery technology.
A good or quality BMS is expensive and that cost add up to the battery cost.

You may want to consider your charging voltage to at least 14.4v because charging at lower voltage may not be favourable.

ojeysky:


Am just curious, how come it's that heavy? can you share reference to the battery as it must be built with some very heavy metal.

Comes with a rack sir

remizvxcq:
more on LiFePO4 and other lithium purchasing wahala
https://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/The-Pitfalls-of-Buying-Lithium-Batteries

I also have JA Solar 330W panels Poly for sale. NGN62,500 per each or buy pallet of 27 panels and get 5% discount per each. EXW Lagos warehouse

That is a well written article that comes from an in dept experience!

I have been into the importation line since 2012 mostly from China and what seems to be my watch word is "You get what you pay for"

So I have always tried to stick with products that are within average or above average pricing and it has really work for me.

My main business is mobile accessories mostly power banks and my power banks cost range from 4k to 13k but because I buy with premium price from Chinese factory, I have always have customer asking for more and giving me refarals.

I can at this moment say price is really a factor to consider when buying from China. The only thing that gives you edge is your shipping network.

In the bid for a better uninterrupted power solution let's be careful of prices that are too good to be true especially with Lifepo4 battery.

Thanks for the link sir

ceaser:


The BMS overviltage alarm trips and beeps at around 14.5v and it switches off the charging and the battery output to the inverter.

I think to be doubly sure, I'll measure the output voltage of the provided AC charger of the battery.

My LFP doesn't have alarm or display but I think the BMS is doing a great job. Though not yet connected to solar yet due to current resident but with the ac charger is rated 14.6v 20a.

The charger trips off at 14.4v and I noticed battery never goes above14.4v. So I'm guessing the BMS trips of charging once it gets to 14.4v.

JUO:
I forgot to add that I was scammed by the Chinese on my first lithium battery research over 2 years ago

Sometimes buying from these Chinese guys can be very tricky, the smallest difference in price can make a very big quality difference.

I noticed that sometimes they pack lithium ion cells and call it LFP as well I've once gotten an offer for this kind of battery pack at $120 for 12v 100ah while the packs that are build like the normal lead acid pack cost twice or more for same 12v 100ah.

Substandard cells and cheap BMS can lead to the swelling of the battery.

For all I know the Chinese will always give you what you pay for and for those who don't cut standard, it will always be difficult buying from them due to high cost and sometimes not willing to offer smaller units.

Still would like to know the current state of the battery now.

adrusa:
Trying to see if I could get Lithium from China, but the weight and the cost of shipping is proving tricky. Can anyone give me a reasonable price on Lithium 200AH 48V?

Lifepo4 48V 200AH~10kw
Weight=168kg

Air freight=1.150M (3weeks-5weeks)
Sea freight=1M (8weeks-12weeks)

You can PM me if OK with it...

nonoski:


Thank you very much

Coughing out N1.4m for batteries is not funny at all.

I double checked the set voltages so over charging is not the issue.

The charge controller is premium brand Victron and the inverter is Felicity.

I have used HA02 battery balancers for years without issues.

The 3 units of 4 batteries are connected to a Busbar so the Lenght of the wire (35mm²) are of the same Lenght.

I have made up my mind to change the batteries.

Really sorry for your lost sir! It's quite unfortunate, but like the white guys say "shit happens sometimes"

Maybe it's time to go lithium iron phosphate known as Lifepo4.
I stand to correct you that Lifepo4 is one of the safest amongst the lithium battery family... You can do more research and find out for yourself.

The beauty of it is that you don't need to connect several batteries in S and P but have a single unit built to you voltage and capacity as well built according to you application.

There's always a first time and we already have guy's within this forum with good knowledge of it.

ceaser:


Thank you for bringing that to attention. I know that price is the range of 24v 100ah.

But hey who knows, life might just be getting good and lithium might just be getting seriously affordable with that sweet price, if its indeed 200ah.

On further thought, the individual that placed that advert calls for some doubts in the quoted capacity especially if the capacity label isn't slapped on the battery.

That's very correct bro! That price is actually for 24v 100ah LFP.

Another thing to note is, this pack is made from metal not plastic, that alone adds to the weight.

A typical 24v 200ah should weight over 50kg with that kind of casing.

I personally had a supplier who offered me a 12v 100ah with metal casing and a digital display for 80k factory price but i didn't buy because of the weight because it will cost me more on shipping via air freight since I don't use sea shipping... It weighs 24kg for 12v 100ah while the plastic casing weighs 13kg.

It will really be nice if they start with smaller units to aid affordability and quality test... That way it will be easy to try before coughing out that huge amount money for a larger unit.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I am not aware that an inverter can be 100% efficient and have zero battery draw while fully powered on and ready to work - consider the physics of your assertions! Where is the power to light up the inverter LCD screen panel display and the circuitry that updates real time load consumption coming from?

Surely the battery is being drained no matter how little. What about the physics of DC to AC conversion? Surely a transformer or switched supply will have operating losses.

What is reasonable is a very low no load battery draw and this is achievable with nifty engineering and efficient components.

If you have a decent DC clamp meter, simply put it around the inverter battery cable when no load is powered and you will get an idea how many amps your inverter is drawing from battery - multiply amps by battery voltage and you get a pretty good idea of the idle watts draw of your inverter.

Hmm.....!
I guess it's time to reinvest in tools... Thanks so much

netotse:


how much is this inverter? the 1kW?

Estimated price should be around 35k to 40k sir. Not certain until I am given a quote but it should be within that range.

mctfopt:


I think the best bet is to check the no load DC draw of the inverter when it is not handling any load.
This is simple to do, just put on the inverter with no load, then place a clamp on the battery terminals and check the no load current draw, then multiply whatever you get with the battery's voltage to determine the power consumed on no load. This is the idle power of the inverter, of course the inverter's display won't show this.

Thanks

I'll check just need to get a new clamp meter

mctfopt:


Thanks, can I have the link? How was the shipping cost?

Go to alibaba type sendon on the search space, you'll get their products... For shipping it about 30k

saint2ace:



Can we get links to the seller you got the battery and especially the inverter from?

I can help you get it if you want...

ojeysky:


How were you able to determine how much the inverter consumes on idle? Since the inverter consumption is not part of what is displayed on the inverter screen. Am interested to know this as I want to check what mine consumes

Actually, if your inverter has a display that shows your load wattage, you should be able to see the load consumption as you add individual load.

To get the idle consumption, unplug all the load and see if there's still any reading on the display. If you get a reading then, that's you inverter idle consumption. If the reading is zero then, it means your inverter is 100% efficient.
What it means is that, it doesn't drain your battery when there's no load on it.

This pics shows mine with a load and without load.

mctfopt:


Care to share the link of the shop or contact address of this factory?

My battery is build by Sendon power, They're on alibab...

ceaser:


Keep enjoying the sweetness of LFP bro. It seems your own supplier has been tested and trusted and you have shown that a direct purchase is a possibility. I might need to explore your own channel of acquisition for direct purchase soon cos I don't think I can be patient to wait till June when the supplier consignment will get to Nigeria (if he places order March, it'll take like 3 months for arrival, according to him)

@ the bolded. I have explained it here before that I noticed that phenomenon.

Usually your load of 97 watts is at 12v nominal battery supply to the inverter. But as the battery voltage rises, the calculated wattage consumption commensurately reduces and vice versa. Hence you have around 78 watts consumption at around 12.8v/13.0v Inverter battery power.

If you can lay your hands on a lead acid battery that will supply you around 12.2v/12.3v to the inverter, connect it and check the wattage output on the inverter. You'd realize that it will have risen to close to your expected 97 watts consumption.

By the way, a new set up I'm planning is for an inverter AC. It's gonna be a 24v system and the power inverter has been secured. The AC and the MPPT controller are also on the way. The battery of choice is 2pcs of 24v 120ah LFP which cost 235k each.

Abeg give me all the info about that your inverter. Name, specs, source and how to get it.

Thanks for the enlightenment! I really do enjoy reading your post...

I would have loved to bring in a very strong competition here because of the knowledge I have with products and cost advantage but don't have the capacity for now.

I'll really like to assist anybody who's bold enough to trust me in getting related products at an affordable price. Note that transaction and shipping period is usually a month or less...

For my kind of Inverter, I'll post the pictures for detail's and spec but it's quite pricey for a stand alone inverter...

I will really like to connect with you sir!