₦airaland Forum

RobbStark:
How can you stay in your small town and speak for people far away who don't even identify themselves as ibo. How. ??
Are you by chance insinuating that we don't have ibos who are indigenes of those two towns in this forum.
Guy say something else.
Just do you know, I communicate with ibani wen I am in bonny.
They don't speak Ibo in Kalaibiama, finima name them.
Even in bonny main town, only strangers use Ibo come and see for yourself.
I can book LNG boat for you if you are scared of using the public one.

They don't speak Igbo right? Should I bring a screenshot for you?

Robbstark.

Does it matter? These your arguments are beginning to sound exactly like the Benin own we used to hear concerning Anioma.

Benin would say the Anioma kings are dressed like Binis. The Anioma kings bear Bini names. The Anioma villages bear Bini names. The Anioma kings go to Bini to be crowned. The Anioma speak a type of Bini. Then you see some efulefu from Anioma on Nairaland here defending Bini stoutly. Bini this, Bini that. Bla bla bla.

It doesn't matter. Having some cultural influence doesn't mean the people are no longer Igbos. Jaja can name his children anything. The two towns are Igboland. This was how the Bini continued until we drilled it into their skulls. This days they don't talk that nonsense anymore. But I know it's unknown gunmen activities they are afraid of. The Anioma is no longer attractive to claim again.

gifted21:
Bros, why you dey mention me?
I don't like to argue,
One of my mentors said " A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still"

l will ask simple questions when you solve it you have half the answers to your questions.

Who was Chief Oko Jumbo of the Jumbo major house of bonny?
Which "meat" was he eating according to history?
Why was ibani language not spoken to the slaves?
How and why did the adulterated Igbo language infiltrate okoloma(bonny)
Who was juwujuwu( jaja) a slave to in bonny?
Who made him king?
Is Ndoki closer to bonny through the coastline?
Who or where do they crown the king of bonny?
Is opobo a part of bonny or a separate entity that came on its own?
Who were the slaves, where are they from?
I could go on and on
Conclusion? Draw it yourself when you have answer to these questions

Before I answer some of the questions I'll like to invite you to read through the thread, especially the narrations of Bonny in the 1800s, before Nigerian politics started.

Read through the materials then rephrase your questions and ask again.

warripekin:
So far on this peace of history, igbo's have proven themselves. It is evidently clear ijaws are recent people in Bony and Opopo. Strange enough, the few Bony/ Opopo persons I know like the ogolo's , jombo's and even Jaja's have never admitted they are Ijaw. Any way , the Ijaws are known across the Niger Delta as land grabbers. That was how they suddenly woke up in Warri in the late nineties and started fighting over Itsekiri lands . Even in Bomadi, Sagbama and Warri south west LGA , they succeeded in laying claims to some of the communities there , whereas they are minorities in these places. I have much to talk about Ijaws in Delta and Bayelsa, but I guess this not the right place. So far , Igbo's 100 - ijaws 0.

Open a dedicated thread when you're ready. We will be eager to hear from you.

9Pluto:
You are on point.
An extensive research needs to be conducted on the true identity of the ijaws. Considering the recent description of their identity, I now have course to believe they were not the Brass people Crow talked about. Chief Fubara in Crow's account maybe one of the earliest ijaws who sneaked into Bonny with a false pretense typical of the people described to start ambushing Bonny natives.

Since they were not on the scene wayback. It is important to find out when the murderous exploit of replacing tribes through canoe attack started taking place.

The Ijaw are not recent. They've always been there. The same reports stated there was a tribe known as Jo-Men or E'Jo. What you should know is that the Ijaw wherever mentioned is talking about the Izon group today lying on the western Niger Delta and parts of Bayelsa. These were the militants as recorded by the captains. They've always been there.

OfoIgbo:
They are Brass youths.

Yeah. I usually take them as one.

JANK23H:
I would agree with a superior argument if I saw one.So far, there's been none.

I believe you all know the truth.There could have been a better way though to approach this.The Igbos have always been known to lack tact politically.

Mehn the thrash you vomit is something to behold.

BKayy:
This AlexBells dude don't know much and his post is enough proof.

So all these write up is an attempt to override the more historical accurate thread by 9Pluto

Ekealterego, Slayerforever, Igboid and Eastlink. I don't know who people are seeing when you look at this AlexBells but what I am seeing is an enemy of the Igbo nation. Someone moulded in the likeness of Joe Igbokwe.

He cannot override anything. He's just the average one Nigeria Igbo with passionate, most of the time, ignorant perspectives, with interests in the current political setup.

What is there to bother you about slavery? Ijaw people? Puleaseeee.

As for your integrity, bother more about your real life integrity. Don't take Nairaland to heart, it doesn't make sense. We are all your brothers whether some bash you or not.

I do tell some here, as soon as I turn off my data from Nairaland it's bye bye to whatever negativity I read on the site. I wonder how I would be thinking about what some said on Nairaland. Nahhhhhhhh.

AlexBells:
I'm compelled to make this post on a crucial issue that had boxed me to a Corner and no matter how much I try to avoid it people drag me to it, this could be a long read.

This situation is really important to me, I made a post earlier concerning Opobo and Bonny hinting that at sometimes in history the Ijaws sold the Igbos to slavery many Igbos came for me in a very brutal way using so much heavy language on me, I thought it was good to stay out for a while by spending more time in the romance session but people keep dragging me to these posts, the fact is that apart from being an aspiring politician and Strategist, I'm human.

I wanted to let the issue slide but it is hurting my credibility it is really hurting me, I had to speak to one of my mentors about it and below is my complaint to him and his reply

My Message to My Mentor:
Good Day Sir, something is quite affecting my popularity and it got a bit to do with history,

The Igbo nation has two contested territories of Opobo and Bonny, my movement had been a lot careful that between the two towns I included 1 of them in the bonafide territory of AlaIgbo while leaving the second one out for now to avoid unneeded tension since my province can work just fine with one of the two territories as we are still in Nigeria and if Nigeria is not dividing anytime soon there is no need to get fighting for territories.

These two territories are very significant as our other rivals are supporting the other nationality that we are contesting the territories with in a bid to limit our sea access as the two territories in question have ample sea access but to us, this issue is beyond access to the sea as the two towns have serious history with Igbos and huge presence of indigenous Igbo, in fact, Igbo language and culture is the most prominent there.

But I made an assertion that the Ijaw people (the nationality that we are contesting the territories with) by virtue of the fact that they had earlier access to the outside world sold our people to slavery as we are further interior, my people thought that my statement was derogatory in saying that the Ijaws aided in kidnap and sold our people to slavery,

But accounts can relate to someone like king Jaja of Opobo who was a formal slave and Olaudah Equiano, the fact is that trying to prove these points back to the Portuguese slave merchants seems to me like washing our dirty lining in public but my people is making me look less credible and historically unfit,

The whole defence account they are using is the more recent accounts by British colonialists but that's not the reliable accounts of slavery as during the British influence, slavery had declined and subsequently abolished and most accounts were on trades,

I don't know if I should dig deeper, I don't quite want to dig up hate inspiring memories but my own credibility is in line and they are making me question my own sanity as people who had been opposed to me now use it to insinuate that I'm anti Igbo

I, however, prefer compromise to confrontation that's why I need truth, I can't understand Portuguese nor know much about their accounts but I need to dig deeper and much later sponsor an archeological research to ascertain the earliest settlers on the two towns.

My Mentor's Reply:
Whilst it will be interesting to find out the historical truth this is often not entirely possible. You end up doing a lot of work, find out a lot of things but come to no satisfactory conclusion as precise evidence is missing. Part of my own background is like that. We were `galloglas', that is Scottish soldiers who served Irish kings in the medieval period. The role of galloglas is disputed as they are either seen as Scottish interlopers in Ireland or Scottish guarantees of continued Irish independence. We have a saying `you pays your money and makes your choice'. I have no opinion on the matter other than that people had to make a living as best they could in those days.

It might not be worth following this issue through if it causes you other difficulties. Historical slavery is a horrible issue to deal with in politics and I don't think anyone has found a satisfactory way of resolving the resentments it causes. It is truly an issue best left to the academic historians to examine in fine detail to establish a context which everyone can work with. It is an issue which can easily leave you with egg on your face.

Might I suggest you establish a narrative which accommodates the main points on which everyone is agreed. Yes, bad things happened but not everyone wanted these things to happen and it was only done by foolish people. Something like that. A case for political dissimulation; you obscure to achieve clarity. I know it sounds daft, but in politics your integrity is more important. Try to put yourself in the shoes of your critics. This will help you to find the best way forward.

Many years ago when I was younger than you are now a major political figure in the UK gave me some sound advice. The first was to do your own research and the second was when you find yourself in a hole stop digging any further. You have done the first and I applaud that, but the conclusions have tipped you into a hole. Find the best way to climb out of it and move on.

Now The Situation is Such that I had found myself in a hole so I have to get out by presenting valid arguments
Now like you know I'm a young politician and the majority is always right so I am not presenting these accounts to discredit or challenge anybody but to get myself off the hole.

I will start with the account given by 9Pluto which happened to be the most recent, the account was written by Captain Hugh Crow of Liverpool (1765-1829), the first contact with Portegues by the Benin and other more coastal people especially the Ijaws was as far back as 1484 over two centuries before Captain Hugh Crow was born, the portegues João Afonso de Aveiro arrived the shores of what is today known as Southern Nigeria, we need to understand that the Portuguese wielded influence in the Nigerian coastal towns long before the British arrival.

While the Aros raided slaves in the hinterland, the Aros was not trading directly with the whites rather they exchanged the salves with Ijaw merchants which in return for their supplies, why I opined that the Ijaws was more in control of the Bonny slave port. There were three major slave ports within the Eastern corridor 1. Itsekiri 2. Calabar 3. Bonny The Itseiri was used mostly by Benin, Calabar by the coastal people of Akwa Ibom and Cross River and Bonny Mostly by Ijaws, the Aros supplied these people leveraging the huge population of Igbo land so the Aros never sold Directly to the Portuguese, this fact would be corroborated later by king Jaja because, in the true sense of it, Jaja was transacting in the business of his Ijaw buyers although he later regained his freedom, found his own territory where he became king.

The Bight of Biafra was named by the Portegues and not the British so long before the British arrived things had been going on, The issue of Opobo and Bonny can't be fixed by mere history it is either compromise or the exhibition of might and while I would advocate that Opobo is undeniably Igbo, Bonny is a hybrid town which would require a referendum or full-scale invasion, Opobo, however, won't be debated as it is as Igbo as Orlu.

Having clarified myself, I wish to concentrate more on politics, strategy and solving real problems, however, I am an Igbo man and it is quite really hard to debate along because sometimes we are too ashamed of some aspect of our history that we seem to attack anyone that brings such reality to light but everyone in their history has some terrible times and it was the call of the time, I hope people also understand that using strong words on me would make me eventually withdrawn this is because I'm Igbo and disagreeing with my own people which happen to be my support base would hurt my politics and the support of my people is not what I want to trade to win flimsy arguments.

9Pluto
SlayerForever
BKayy
Ekealterego
Fejoku
OfoIgbo
Igboid
afonjaheadhunts

You shouldn't bother yourself too much about slavery on the coast back then though. It doesn't mean anything today.

Biafrarep:
Interesting!!!

One thing I have come to understand is that people hardly change in their core values/worldview, probably because they're genetically wired to be like that. So, I don't think it's unique to Ijaws, because same way they've always had tendencies toward violent armed robbery/militancy and arson, is also same way Igbos have always had business acumen and superiority complex. I was shocked when when those foreign explorers emphasized that Igbos during those era believed they were of a superior ethnic stock.

Historically too, the Ibibios/Efiks aside the normal conflicts that was prevalent back then, are relatively peaceful just like they are today.

In the North, the Kanuris and Fulanis that are harrassing others all over Northern Nigeria through Boko Haram and herdsmen respectively, have always been like that too! These two groups would be terrorising all others on horsebacks. That's also what they're still doing today, albeit with modern tools like AK47 and bombs.

Also consider that in the past, while there was near anarchy in the Yorubaland and ironfist monarchy in Bini, Igboland was relatively peaceful with a decentralized authority. It was the peaceful coexistence in Igbo territories that largely resulted in huge population density.

My point is that, if you check all these factors, you will realize that every ethnic group have mostly retained their core identities over the centuries! This is the reason why I warn that anything that will make Igbos to share a smaller country with Ijaws must be stopped at all cost. Otherwise, we will end up having another South Sudan scenario in our hands.

If we must break away from Nigeria, then we must go alone or at most align with the Akwa-Cross that are peaceful in nature just like us. Otherwise, we remain in Nigeria and slug it out. I pity any group that will share country with Ijaws because it will be war without end.

"The past is key to the future"~~ George Santayana.

All you said about the characteristics of ethnic groups being retained is true. I was just shaking my head when I read those accounts that stated that Ijaw were militants even way back.

Putindbutt:
Equiano famously known as Gustavus Vassa has his origin very much in contention. Y'all always pick controversial battles.

He was an Ijaw man.

Maxi112, KateyKate, Gifted21, Anibi9674, Nasoeb,

Ekealterego:
It shows the difference in intellect.

9cloud Here is an account, This is by Captain John Adams (1823). He had a similar account with Crow, detailed but an earlier report on his Bonny exploration.

cc Delishpot, Bomasek

Ekealterego:
Igboid, Slayerforever, 9cloud.

I think I found the otam. They are now spelt as Itam. Some have merged with Ibibio, while I guess some some Igbo (or not).

Their chief diety is called, Awaitam and they celebrate Awaitam.

Many of them merge and identify as Ibibio today while maintaining the Iran identity... their land stretch towards Ndoki and even towards Bende and Aro.

I think they are dispersed. Maybe someone from there can throw more light.

oooohhhh!!! I before I forget, I remember having a discussion with someone from "Item" pronunced as "Eetaym", he said their ancestors experienced an influx of migrations and mixed with people from "mmoghu" people, refering to people from Cross-Rivers and Akwa-Ibom.

Did you say Itam!

If you're talking about Itam I know one or two about Itam! Itam today is a general name by Efiks used to refer to non Ibibio tribes in Northern and Central Cross River. If Itam and Otam were the same then in finding them look no further than Northern/Central Cross River state!

One of the tribes there would be the Itam/Otam as recorded.

GreatBoss:
Go and claim them physical u liar.
Igbo speakers my foot.

Why the boys dey communicate for Ibo na?

Ekealterego:
I think this is Brass. You can then check the king's town.
In the past, Nembe was in Brass, although they are different people. Today, Brass and Nembe are in different LGAs.

To narrow this down, the question will be, what is the name of that town or area.
You may end up in a different linguistic area if you try to explore the whole or two LGAs.

The name of the town in particularly is Twon Brass.

Ekealterego:
You are correct. The book is free on Google books too as I can see.

Here are the excerpts

ccAlabo7978

Can you see that the language of New Calabar (Kalabari) was Igbo. Kalabari were earlier Igbo speaking. Same as Nembe Brass.


I hear Kalabari's language is still very Igbonized today. But I don't know how true.

Maybe I should mention some old Kalabari members

9Pluto:
Are you sure this is Nembe in Bayelsa State or Neni in Anambra State? Please, we would need someone from Nembe or someone who lives in Nembe to confirm if this clip in from Nembe and if those guys are truly Nembe youths.

If it is certified they are Nembe youths, then we seriously need to question who are the Ijaws?

Interesting questions on quora would include?
Who are the ijaws? Their history/origin, when did they first appeared in history, most importantly, what is there language? etc

If those are truly Nembe youths, then recent Nigerian historIans are a disgrace or I daresay we do not have historians in Nigeria.

I can imagine the damages or propaganda that would have been peddled pre-Internet age.

Those are Nembe youths. In other clips they enter the rooms. You can just make out pictures of royally dressed people in the wreckage. But it appears too briefly for many to catch.

Igboid:
I just noticed that Nkissi, Amitsh and Oss in the list were not listed as Igbo ,but their words are Igbo words.
Biko any guess on who the Nkissi and Oss were? I'm guessing that Amitsh is Amichi (in Nnewi South of Anambra today).


The group recorded as Fernandian( I guess these ones came from the Island of Fernando Po to Bonny. They called man "Bobi" could this be where the Ph slangs "Abobi" for man came from?

Maybe Oss were Orsu of today

[sub][/sub]

Biafrarep:
They are showing you hardcore evidences with historical exhibits to back it up only for you to be recounting myths and legends.

So, when we finally meet at the International court of Justice, these fables is what you will be regurgitating?

My condolences in advance

Lollllllll

OfoIgbo:
That Brass language can be understood by every Igbo person


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onVPhIp6soo

God bless you for this link. How can we bring this into greater circulation. This is damning evidence.

Ekealterego:
You are probably right. A section of Eleme people are from Arochukwu. Eleme is a mixture of Ogoni and Arochukwu, that is why they do not accept the Ogoni tag.
As we stated earlier, their old name was "Mbolli" or "Mba Oli". This was what Aros call them and how their name was represented in history books. It is possible that the guy you were talking about is from the Aro side of Eleme.
Igboid, Bkayy, Slayerforever check this invite. It is public so no stress.

The only Eleme/Ogoni person I've ever met was by name Chisom. You can imagine

OfoIgbo:
Why are you finding it difficult to also confirm that the ruling house was also Igbo?

So while the kings of Ubani were Igbo speakers, while the slave merchants there were also Igbo speakers, and while the slaves were also Igbo speakers, you are hellbent on trying to confuse people into thinking that it was only the slave class that were Igbos.

How come those that attacked Diette-Spiff were speaking a Brass language, that could be understood 100% by every Igbo speaker?

How come a more ancient memoir written by Crow, that was decades earlier than the one written by Crowther, not critical enough for you?

Ubani and Kalabari traditional institutions are led by Igbo lineages. This cannot happen unless you are trying to say that the Igbos invaded those areas, and established Igbo kingdoms over the non-Igbo natives. We all know this didn't happen.

You still have to scale the hurdle of Igbo traditional leadership in Bonny, and the fact that Crow's memoirs was more ancient than Crowther's writings, hence more reliable as a source of how things were.

You see that Brass video it's not talked about enough. I will try to change that fact today.

Eastlink:
It will be devastating. How far about that your Facebook group. I think we need to start forwarding these evidence there.

It's more for planning.

Ekealterego:
This is another account by Horton in a different chapter stating the dialects of Igbo written in 1866-68
Slayerforever, look at Bonny carefully written here.
9japluto
Bkayy
Igboid
Eastlink

Alabo7978 what am I seeing here

JANK23H:
Ijaws,Efik,Ogoni,Ibibio etc.They still are classed under Igbos.The distinction only started recently after the NigerDelta agitations.

Total lies. Not even during regional government were non Igbos ever called Igbos.

JANK23H:
I've explained on several occasions that most NigerDelta tribe as it still is today were regarded as Igbos.Stop acting like you don't know this.

Like which and which?

Eastlink:
I think we need to open a thread on this fraudulent Perekule the Ijaws keep using for King Pepple. I open the thread and one uninformed admin sent it to food section. We can use the opportunity to tell the true story of King Pepple, his Igbo name, his Igbo origin and his exploits. At least unlike the Ijaws, we use facts to back up our findings.
What do you think Slayerforever?

Very good idea. I wonder how ashamed some people in Bonny will be when they truly realize their present king bears a fraudulent name.

I can't wait for this case to be forwarded to a competent court of law with the required jurisdiction

These materials we have here also rubbishes claims by some idiotic ekwerom ethnicity who said Igbo language was forced on them during regional government. What a load of baloney.

Very soon we may open their case again with prehistoric materials like this.

Eastlink:
For those interested, click the link below for the source.
https://books.google.com.ng/books?id=9E_zDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=king+pepple+from+pepper&source=bl&ots=fGTkP8XETD&sig=ACfU3U3KYZCi8LewH_2n4RAw0jGOPy_3Xw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiTm7emosjyAhXxA2MBHVIxCf0Q6AF6BAg1EAI#v=onepage&q&f=true

You can also check below for the Nairaland thread.

https://www.nairaland.com/6716756/evidence-king-pepple-got-name

God bless you.


cc 9Pluto

Alabo7978:
I am not sure you read and understand that document well. Calm down and understand me.
I acknowledge the presence of ibo's, but they were MOSTLY SLAVES.
The document ALSO SAYS THAT BONNY IS CALLED IBANI,UBANI BY THE IBOS[NOTE] BY THE IBOS
BUT BONNY IS CALLED OKOLOMA[NOTE]OKOLOMA BY THE INDIGENES
You should ask yourself three questions here.
1) who are the indigenes?
2) who are the IBO SLAVES?
3) why did they speak OKOLOMA which is the language of the indigenes instead of(IBO, kwam, ATAM and the other languages)
Why?
This is first hand information from the indigenes as shown in that document to be taken to the British royal archives.
I'm sorry, but your white buddy's thesis you showed us was just HIS OBSERVATIONS AND OPINIONS, and other white men will also reference him in their own thesis.
The indigenes know themselves better.

Just one point. The language of New Calabar was Igbo too. So Okoloma dialect you mean was an Igbo dialect too.