₦airaland Forum

Adikam:

I mean I hope you have been educated that EPL is vastly inferior to La Liga

SIRcumalot:
I said so because of their present position.
Forget the former success these players enjoy with their previous clubs we've seen them at two extreme ends in the EPL at the top and currently at the bottom(which won't last long hopefully)
Which shows jose isn't exactly saying rubbish.

Which is why I asked if last season they overachieved, what would have been their normal expected achievement in the EPL and in the CL

Nihilist:
Jose is media savvy...he picks his words wisely for maximum impact...but what he said might have a ring of truth to it.

John Terry was co-presenting with Jamie Redknapp for the Manyoo-Bournemouth game and they reviewed the corner that led to the Cherries goal.

It was an incredibly complex movement that you would never spot if you didn't know what you were looking for.

It involved one guy making a run to clear space, and another one who looked like he was marking the keeper quickly running to told fellaini before Josh King ran in to swipe the ball.

They even identified the signal the corner taker made to initiate the move.

Then John Terry said that Jose had made the boys aware of that particular move and that they spent 3 days practicing against it. That kind attention to detail is mental.

Jose on Monday stated that he had identified 4 passages of play that Leicester usually score from and the boys had practiced against them.

According to Jose, the 2 goals conceded came from moves he had identified and coached the team against. How do you explain that?

I'm too sure that these boys are not sticking to the script. I'm just not sure why. And that's why he may not be completely lying by claiming he overachieved with these lads...

All you posted what has it got to do with the narrative that Chelsea overachieved?

Chelsea won the EPL last season and crashed out of the CL second round to 10 men PSG

With chelsea squad vs the opponents, what would have been a normal achievement for Chelsea last season?

Back to all the trap about corner kick, every single coach practice this. And even normal data modeler making $50k a yr can come up with that by watching videos

That Mahrez goal is what inverted wingers do everytime. its like what Robben made a career out of. Yet many would still fall victim to it. Is it that they dont know Robben would do the same thing every time? Robben scored the same goal vs Roma last yr facing Ashley Cole his long term team mate. Was it that Cole forgot about Robben or his left foot

Its when a coach fails that he comes up with all those excuses. How is it different from the 3rd season at madrid? I am sure he would blame someone for not tracking the run of Messi

previously When Hazard would dribble 3 guys to create an assist or a goal what script was he sticking to then? or when Fabregas would pick up a lon raking ball to the attacker or Terry was making last ditch tackles or Ivanovic was heading or when Costa was getting Gabriel red carded

I am sure the coach of Aston Villa too would say his boys are not following a script is why they are at the bottom

For Jose there is no yeye script

Adikam:
Let me Educate you a bit ...you said laliga dominated champions league for the past few years right?ok LIVERPOOL won champions league in 2005, MAN U won it 2008 CHELSEA won it 2012 just 10yrs ago.in spain only barca & madrid has won it during this yrs,..Arsenal appear in champions league final 2006 & liverpool appear in final 2007,chelsea appear in 2008 then man u 2009.how do La-liga dominate it? Europa italy has won it 14times England 12 spain 7 which is 3clubs sevila,madrid & atlentico.hope yu understand now?

2015 barcelona won
2014 Madrid won Atletico in the final
2011 barcelona won
2009 barcelona won
2006 Barcelona
So in the last 10yrs Spain has won 5 times. which is half of titles How many times has England won in that same time frame
In the past 5yrs we have always had at least 2 La Liga sides in the semi finals.

Europa league
2015 Sevilla
2014 Sevilla
2012 Atletico beating Bilbao
2006 Sevilla beating Espanyo
2005 Sevilla

That means in the last 10years Spain has won Half,. How many have England won

Now lets go to Ballon D or nominees. When was the last time an EPL player made top 5 not even top 3. Start from top 5

By the way in Europa Sevilla have won 4, Madrid 2, Atletico 2, Valencia 1. How many in total

Hope you have learnt now that EPL is very inferior to La liga

Nihilist:
What an absurd statement.

United's game so far this year has been based on strong defence.

In his 20 appearances in all competitions so far, Martial's contribution of just 6 goals have mostly been in games where United was already leading...or those that united ended up losing.
.

Martial 6 goals came 1 on his debut vs Liverpool

2 came vs Southampton in a game they won 3-2. Meaning without his goal man utd would have lost

In the CL 1 goal vs CSKA Moscow in a game they drew 1:1 meaning without his goal they would lose it

And the game vs Wolfsburg

Per the bold, what is Martials business with it if he does his job scoring and they still lost probably due to defensive problems?

And regarding the whole martial package, way better strikers with more experience have struggled under LvG and based on Martials skillset he would likely have a better career than Lukaku

SIRcumalot:
I agree with 1 and 2

But I did respond,
I told you I was quoting jose and directed you to that same post where I said that I believe the problem is key players losing form.

I thought in the post you quoted Jose you agreed it might be the "bitter truth"

Which is why I said its a lie. Jose just said that as a flimsy excuse. its like if Man utd or City should win the EPL now with this squad and crash out of CL second round to 10 men opponent say they overachieved

SIRcumalot:
And they also prey on other teams they got greizman from sociedad and martinez from porto.mandzukic wasn't working out so they let him walk to "juventus" for small moni.
I think am losing the thread of this discussion.
At Madrid is up their with the best of them based on their steady performance in the UCL, finance is important but it isn't the most important factor. Dortmund,juve and At.Madrid all made the UCL final on modest budget.
Seeing their easy UCL group and the difference in quality one can understand.

No one would doubt that Atletico is up there in terms of performance. But my points are

1. They are overperforming with their players and budget when you consider other teams in Europe who have more money and better players because of the Simeone tactics

2. Atletico plays counter attacks only in select games, when they meet teams lesser they usually dominate possesion and this season stats show they are top 5 possesion team in the CL

And my initial post about Chelsea overachieving last season which you havent responded to below

And you actually believe Chelsea overachieved by winning the league and crashing out of the CL second round?

if that was over-achievement. What would be a realistic achievement for a Chelsea with

Cortouis, Ivanovic, Terry, Azpi, Matic, Fabregas, Hazard, Willian, Oscar and Costa which even had Mata, Debruyne, Schurrle as dispensable.

Diego Simeone plays that way because he had Barca and Madrid ahead of him whose team are about 5 times more talented than him. Which team in the EPL is 3 times more talented than Chelsea? Is it Leicester or West Ham?

sebod:
To the epl fans, Valdes, masch, pique, busi,alves, even lucho,pep, messi(cos he's not played elswhere) are all average. And you'll wonder who is even good at Barça if 80% of the team with the coach are always average.

Add neymar to it
Everyone in barcelona is average

Yet they keep winning every time

Barcelona won 3 CL between 2009 and now, Spain won the World cup in 2010 and Euro cup in 2012

The only common denominator to all these teams are Pique, Busquets and iniesta yet some football neophytes claim Pique and Busquets are mediocre

SIRcumalot:
You keep looking at at.madrid as an underdog and they're not outside of the clear top 3 the rest of the spot is up for grabs.
Am not one for pulling stats but am almost sure came since At.Madrid came from europa they've been better than PSG, definitely better than juventus.
And they're probably the third highest spender in their league.
Let see how that stat hold up when they start playing quality teams.

Atletico Madrid is not an underdog because of their coach and tactics they play. Every season someone takes away their top players yet they still come back. Isnt that an indication that its the tactics? Based on the players and finances they shouldnt be anywhere near top 3 in Europe. maybe top 7. They are top 3 spenders in their league but in Europe they might not even be top 10. I saw a report of Europe richest clubs and they didnt even make top 15

Its like saying Leicester this season compared to other EPL clubs. Based on their finances and quality of players they should be struggling to make top 10. but today they are tops

The stat is to show you that Atletico Madrid plays on the counter vs select sides only. This season for example only 4 sides hold more possesion than Atletico in the Champions league

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bxwwt6DIAAAxr9g.png

https://twitter.com/Squawka/status/512338023863025664/photo/1



Gerrard claims it was obvious Alonso was a great player after the first training session, something that he also noticed with two other Spanish speaking players: Luis Suarez and Fernando Torres.

“Three players stand out in my time at Liverpool. They all speak Spanish. Each of them unleashes a wave of emotion in me and in every Liverpool supporter: Fernando Torres. Xabi Alonso. Luis Suarez.

“It was clear Alonso was royalty after our first training session together in August 2004, and Rafa Benitez, who had been so clever to buy him in the first place, was equally stupid to sell him to Real Madrid five years later. He was, by some distance, the best central midfielder I ever played alongside.

http://www.insidespanishfootball.com/161679/gerrard-benitez-selling-xabi-alonso-real-madrid-disastrous/

SIRcumalot:
I was quoting jose,
You can see where I said it was all due to lack of form.
Simeone plays that same pattern in the UCL.
And that at.Madrid team contain some very fine players.

Depending on who they play in the CL. Atletico side based on their cost and quality of players are still not a top 5 CL side. Maybe struggle to top 10 side in the CL Clubs Like madrid, Barca, Bayern, Juve, PSG all 4 EPL clubs still have better finances than Atletico and in most cases better football talents

So Simeone needs to come up with a pattern that would make them competitive
CL possesion stats for this season

Nihilist:
I think you are misunderstanding me. Of course Leicester's position is an anomaly, especially considering that the same team, with almost exactly the same squad narrowly escaped relegation last season...

But is it more of an anomaly than the situation we find ourselves in today - The defending champions...in a relegation battle? The PFA player of the year unable to score a single goal? The most miserly defence last season now busted wide open like a cheap ho after multiple trains?

Forget all that combined value stuff and focus on the koko on ground. We are not discussing the past or the future. We are discussing RIGHT NOW.

And Right Now Leicester are hot...and unfortunately we are not. There must be around 1 billion pound in team Value in the current top 4...and Leicester is still 2 points ahead of all of them.

So you are suggesting you play defensive vs Leicester?

1. Chelsea needed the win more than Leicester did. So if you play out a 0-0 game its all good from the Leicester POV.

2. Chelsea had more talents on their team than Leicester does and a draw or bus park would be bad press for a multi million dollar side

Spy360:
The teams currently occupying the top two positions justify the opinion that buying players does not necessarily improves a team.

Lets take it this way, buying offsets team balance and a new equillibrum is expected to be achieved. The period at which that equillibrum is achieved is critical to team success. In addition, any new balance created may also potentially lead to failure.

Therefore it lies in the onus of the team manager to know what player to add, which type of player to add, and when to add.

Within these premises, we are sufficed to say that Wenger and Ranieri have excelled so far. Seeing that Mancity spent £56m on De Bruyne, and £50m on Sterling with Man Utd spending £58m on Martial and £30m on Schneiderlin; both occupying 3rd and 4th respectively. Subsequent decisions in the January window will tell.

The question is, do you think Wenger should make a signing in the next transfer window.

This is the type of failure that Wenger consoles himself with

City won the league recently, man utd won the league recently so is that spending not justified? Even the league is not over and they still have a good chance of winning it again this year. But the failed club called Arsenal, How old were you when Wenger won the last league title?
The last time Arsenal won the league, John Paul was still the Pope and Barack Obama wasnt even in the US senate. Now he is about to finish his 2nd term as a President

Wenger as a coach in 30yrs has 4 league and 0 European cup. That is pure and unadulterated failure

If someone succeeds recently then he is allowed to fail since no one stays on top forever. E.g Olamide or Psquare are allowed to have a mediocre album since they still dropped a hot one recently not Jazzman Olofin or Styl Plus who havent been relevant for over a decade just like Arsenal

coded01:
I don't think it's fair though...
I must say they had 75% chance of winning the UCL against Barca in 2006 but were unlucky...
As for Arsene Wenger...He needs to grow up from believing he can do it with these set of players... No doubt he is a great coach... Ask Henry, Viera n co...

Arsene Wenger has been a coach for like 30yrs. Show me ANY European trophy he has won in his career

Even in those 30yrs how many league titles did he win?

Dhelake:
give simeone that Barca team and he will still play that same way

Give ath Madrid to Pep and he will surely play tiki-taka with that same team

Its solely based on each coach philosophy not on the team they are handling

If you give Atletico to Pep, I doubt he would beat Barcelona in possesion

Or if you give Barca to Simeone I doubt he would play Counter attack vs Osasuna

FBS:
Very Well said and I agree with you minus the eva thingy. She was there at the beginning of the season and they didnt play any better. Plus, isn't it pathetic that such professionals and handsomely paid so called footballers are playing like idi.oits just because a doctor was asked to leave?

They better get their acts together. The whole lot of them.

Was the Eva Caneiro issue not on the very first day of the league vs Swansea?

Eva Caneiro is just an example of the poor management skills of Mourinho with Staff

In Madrid he fought everyone from opponents, to referees to FA to Madrid management to the players

In Chelsea he started with the opponents, FA, referees backroom staff and now players

I saw what Makelele said about Mourinho in 2009 and it shows a coach with poor management skill

SIRcumalot:
Jose said he over-achieved with these set of players last season and maybe that is the bitter truth.
Seems like you want a complicated Tiki-Taka style but it looks like your guyz have forgotten how to play a relatively easy counter attacking football.
I still think it just a loss of form from all your key players,
willian can't be the best player on your team and you expect to challenge for a title.
Their is also nothing wrong with a defensive approach to the game Diego Simeone is in his 5th year with At.Madrid playing in this manner.

And you actually believe Chelsea overachieved by winning the league and crashing out of the CL second round?

if that was over-achievement. What would be a realistic achievement for a Chelsea with

Cortouis, Ivanovic, Terry, Azpi, Matic, Fabregas, Hazard, Willian, Oscar and Costa which even had Mata, Debruyne, Schurrle as dispensable.

Diego Simeone plays that way because he had Barca and Madrid ahead of him whose team are about 5 times more talented than him. Which team in the EPL is 3 times more talented than Chelsea? Is it Leicester or West Ham?

Dadehmola:
Boateng is shyte...

Keep repeating it maybe you would convince yourself. The people that matters rank him with the best in the business. which is why he was one of those selected for the team of the year

We have told you repeatedly that the system at Barca masks the deficiencies of many supposedly "defensive" players in the club...

Isn't it the same club where an average Joe like Abidal fitted in seamlessly at CB?? Even Javier Mascherano's performances at CB over the years have literally put the "We-need-to-replace-Puyol" thingy to bed.

Is it the Barca system that makes Spain too win? You keep saying its the system, Is it not players that make up the system? And Busquets in one of the key players in this so called system. Mascherano was a DM, how come he wasnt made to play DM over Busquets

Alonso Played the deeper position in the pivot, with khedira licensed to join the attack when necessary..

If a Box-to-box Midfilder is paired with a deep-lying passer in a pivot, everyone knows who the furthest forward of the duo would be.

The fact is that every single time in Alonso's career until he became old, slower and started playing DM , He always had a proper DM beside him whether its Mascherano, Hamman, Khedira or Busquets

Dadehmola:
Unlike Gundogan and Bastian you talked about, Fabregas & Cazorla players are not tasked with defensive duties, so the comparison doesn't cut it.

I think the Pivot in the 4-2-3-1 formation is grossly misunderstood and has been used inappropriately on numerous occasions..

These are the things expected of "doppelsechs"...

you probably forgot this important part in the quote you yourself posted earlier..

Going by this, it means that...at times, Matic goes to CM while Fab4 sits. Carzola also screens the back 4 while Coquelin ventures forward

Just when i thought Alonso's Role has been defined clearly enough..

Who told you fabregas and Cazorla dont have defensive duties?

Chidoks:
I didn't get that,would be or wouldn't be? Anyway I'm talking about married men/women.

WOuldnt be

So what difference does it make if she is married? Dont married women sleep around

hariorh:
True. But there's a difference in the way Arsenal play top sides these days. Remember Bayern at the Emirates? I think they just need to improve on their mental strength

You were extremely lucky at the Emirates especially if you remember the number of times Cech saved on Lewandoski and the go ahead goal was even a handball by Giroud

Do you think Suarez, Messi or Neymar would waste that many chances?

Players in training doing the cross bar challenge


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXRFA7wMuLM

Dadehmola:
Same way we have seen people question the obvious fact that Boateng is a "big-for-nothing",mediocre CB

Team of the year nomination Boateng is also in contention. with his dominant displays at WOrld cup and CL finals. You can stay hating while Boatank continues dominating

Busquets is over rated.
The Comparison even an insult to Alonso - na Pep cause all these sha.
Kudos to your manager for redefining possession Football..

How a a DM who won 3 CL titles, 1 world cup and 1 Euro cup be overrated? If you check those titles I listed Busquets, Iniesta and Pique are the common denominator to all yet you still say Busquets and Pique are overrated. So who is properly rated?

Technically speaking, the CM could be the "other DM", depending on the kinda players in the pivot...

You cannot compare a matic/fabregas pivot to that of alonso/Mascherano, or Viera/Gilberto etc..

It can be another DM if the team is going to be ultra defensive

Yet we saw Alonso covering for injured CBs (and those caught outta position) on numerous occasions during his spells in England and Spain..
In Madrid, Kheidera was even more of the CM - Fact!

Anybody can cover for anyone in emergency situation, Didnt Carrick and Fletcher cover in Central defence?
Don't say it in public that Khedira was the CM, Khedira doesnt have the skillset to be a CM. His ball holding is average and his passes are below par

hariorh:
It will be close this time.

Barcelona haven’t been all that solid at the back. They already conceded 4 goals in a match this season. Tactically, Arsenal have been improving. Kudos to Wenger on this. I expect the winner of the tie to go through on away goals.

I expect Barcelona to win comfortably with a 2 goal margin at least

Arsenal are still several rungs below Bayern and barcelona

hariorh:
Yes. Coquelin and Cazorla at Arsenal.

I updated it too. You get the drift about the double pivot ish

na only bottom and teams who are fighting relegation would play 2 DM as double pivot because they usually dont intend to attack at all use that as a way to bolster their defence

Another example of a doible pivot is Dortmunds Bender-Gundogan

While Bender is the DM, Gundogan is the CM. Same thing with Chelsea Matic-Fabregas double pivot Matic is the DM Fabregas is the CM. When Arsenal play 4231 their double pivot is usually Coquelin-Cazorla. Coquelin is the DM Cazorla is the CM

^^ Thats your opinion and it doesnt make it right. Havent we seen people who claimed Joe Cole was better than Schweinsteiger or that Hazard was better than neymar

Busquets turnovers are less because he protects the ball better you can hardly strip him of possesion at worst he would dive to cover the ball

A double pivot is usually used in a 4-2-3-1 and the 2 ahead of the back 4 are the double pivot also called the doppelsechs

In what you call a double pivot one is usually the main DM and one the CM

In the Martinez-Schweinsteiger double pivot. Martinez was the DM Schweini was the CM

The 2 - (double six)
It's actually superfluous, but we will go into it anyway. Our "sixes" need to possess a high degree of footballing intelligence and the ability to "read" a game. But all players need that nowadays, don't they?
The "double six" is often interpreted in the following way as part of this system of play: one of the "sixes" is more offensively oriented, is often unmarked in the midfield and thus can be passed to, additionally takes care of the playmaking and secures the rear space behind number 10 if his team is in possession of the ball. The second "six" is mostly responsible for defensive tasks. Ideally, the two players swap their roles in the system of play time and time again, in order to become less predictable.
In the defensive, the "sixes" may easily form triangles with two players of the "four back" on their sides and thus heavily attack the opposing player in possession of the ball. Gaps for possible passing routes are automatically closed in the process and if possession of the ball is won, it is easy to find access to the wing players in the midfield. However, the running paths are often very long as described above and it is often hard to support the wing-

https://www.soccerpilot.com/tactic/images/systems-of-play-4-2-3-1.png


Alonso might be an overall better and more intelligent player than Busquets but as a DM solely Busquets to me is the better option

1-0

On to the next one

Dem ban me for Politics section ni and see the reason below



a moderator banned raumdeuter for "you are free to exercise your freedom to deactivate" encouraging members to deactivate. violation of rule 7. Ban expires at December 17, 2015 at 09:09:05 AM.

Someone dey threaten to deactivate and I told him to go ahead next thing I was banned

Dadehmola:
Dayo, i even wan ask you...

Alonso at his peak vs Busquets at his peak - who was/is the better DM??

Alonso at his peak played as a CM, Na loss in pace make baba go DM now

In Liverpool he had Hamman, Mascherano in Madrid he had Khedira playing DM behind him

What Alonso has over Busquets is long passes, One major disadv of Alonso is that he is slow and can get caught on the ball they he would result to ill-timed tackles

Busquets knows how to protect the ball more than Alonso and his turnovers are less

So to your question as a DM peak busquets or peak Alonso. Give me peak Busquets

Hernandez just scored for leverkusen again

Ghen ghen Parade don change gear. E don red ooo
Na northerners he start with now. So when the anti corruption train come south make una dey ready and no shout tribalism

Former ANPP governor Bafarawa who was in the same party with Buhari
Dasuki former NSA
And a former finance minister Yuguda

I dey laff oo

Iheajirika-Chief of Army Staff,
Obanikoro-Minister of State for Defence,
Fani Kayode, - Presidential Basketmouth
Asari Dokubo - Presidential Militant in Chief,
Ayo Oritsejafor- Arms transporter between South Africa and Nigeria
Stella oduah - BMW transporter,
Okonjo Iweala - Finance minister you dey see them dey hold Minister of State for Finance abi
Jelili Adesiyan - Minister of Police affairs,

hope una dey warm up. Start finetuning your stories, start getting your receipt, your invoices and most importantly put your house in order
Fani Kayode that one no need to try that loudmouth just send him to rehab