₦airaland Forum

It wonderful that you have such a great appreciation for Jehovah and Jesus's sacrifice. In the bible though it warns us to seperate ourselves from things that are unclean at 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 " What fellowship do rightous and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further what harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does Gods temple have with idols? Therefore GET OUT from among them and seperate yourselves says Jehovah, and quit touching the unclean thing; and I will take you in and you will be sons and duaghters to me says Jehovah the almighty.

So see,even though your intentions are very admirable the bible warns us to stay away from things that have to do with false worship. Just somthing to think about.

Please copy and paste the link then read it before you reply. This is NOT from a Jehovah witness website but from one of the numerous sources on the internet that know Christmas has nothing to do with Christ or Christianity.

Christmas is not a Christian religious festival it is a pagan one http://www.essortment.com/all/christmaspagan_rece.htm

Luke 4:8 Jesus said to them It is written It it is God you must worship and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.

We have never claimed to prophecy. We are bible students who preach about the truths we have learned in the bible.

Our doctrines have never changed. Certain things we were allowed to do before have been modified after learning that it went against the bible  (certain holidays, smoking) however those would not be considered doctrines.

Ok thats why most Christian religions still participate in the celebration of Christmas while they very well know it's origin is Pagan. Is that not a error?

First we are not prophets nor have we ever claimed to be prophets. We have only ever claimed to be bible students. As bible students there is always room for error but once that error is found we make the needed changes. Jehovah's Witnesses once celebrated many of the holidays of the world however over time we came to learn that many of these holidays were pagan in origin and we stopped partaking in them. The paragraph that you quoted was another example of an error that was made. At one time bible students believed that they knew the date of Jehovah's great day but later with deeper understanding of scripture this mindset was changed.

As a medical student you are learning to master the art of medicine, then once you have become a MD someone may say you have finally mastered the art. However even once doctors have so called "mastered" their profession they must still continue learning. They have to continue their research, they must continue going to teaching seminars and learning new technique. It is the same with us. We never stop learning and if we later discover something we thought was correct before was not we do not shamefully try to hide the discovery and continue practicing it out of pride and arrogance, we make the needed changes.

But I am not going to continue arguing my faith with you or anyone else. If you were really that interested in finding out the truth about JW's you would open mindedly ask for the answers not use information from Google or from half heartedly reading one of our publications so that you may try to slander JW's without knowing all the facts. If anyone on this board wants to ask questions about Gods word the bible so that we may discuss it together then I will answer, but I will no longer engage anyone that wants to put down, argue against, and slander my faith. Take care

I would report the incident to the Elders of the congregation and to the police. We believe render Cesar's things to Cesar and Gods things to God. Elders oversee the congregation but we still believe in obeying the law set forth and child abuse and molestation is against the law. The Elders would not cover up such a crime and certainly if the brother or sister was convicted of such a crime then they would not be able to associate with ones in the congregation unless it was shown "over time" that they had repented. Even still we are warned through many JW articles on the subject to keep a watchfull eye on our children and not place them in danger, and the same rule would apply with a member of the congregation. Just attending a meeting with someone accused or convicted would not be putting the child in danger, however allowing the child to be alone with such one would be. We would NOT be frowned upon nor chastised for not allowing our children to be alone or unsupervised with such ones and from the council of the article it would still be wise to keep a watchfull eye on the person as well as discuss the subject of abuse with our children to keep them informed of what to watch out for.

I grew up as a witness and when I became an adult I thought what the world had to offer was more enjoyable. Not only that, I decided to try other religions because I felt I had grown up in the truth so maybe there was something better out there for me. But guess what I have come back to. Not because I was brainwashed or so dogmatic in my beliefs but because I didn't find the truth anywhere else. I am not making this up to support JW's, this was my life for 10+years. I am 31 now and back where I need to be. I am not perfect, I struggle everyday to keep doing the right thing. I am not forced to go door to door but I do so because I see the suffering in the world and I want to tell others about what I have found to be the truth and to also inform them that God is loving and forgiving and wants ALL humans to be happy. Why do you think God is giving us this time to make things right. He isn't just sitting around eating popcorn enjoying the drama that the world is going through. He is patiently waiting and hoping more people will find out who he really is and what he really wants for mankind before he has to bring about his day of retribution.

So anyway I hope that was enough explanation.

We as humans are not robots, we can choose to believe what we wish and ignore the rest, however as I said before when it comes to answering questions people may have about the bible as well as legit questions about Jehovah's Witneses then I will answer. I cannot speak on what all witnesses are doing just as they could not speak on what I was doing when I decided to live my life away from the organization some years ago. No one is perfect and everyone desrves a chance to prove who they are regardless of what they did in their past. Jesus set that example when he told the wrongdoer who was dying next to him "you will b with me in paradise". If I cant rely on God who is all seeing and knowing and good then who can I rely on?

Jesus died basically being called a criminal even though he was the only rightous and perfect man walking the earth. While I am not perfect nor rightous by folowing in his footsteps I cannot expect any less and therefore will not expect poeple to understand my faith.

As i said before my argument is not with anyone on this board. have a nice day

Nigerians are not Satan but the whole earth is lying in the power of the wicked one and ALL humans are being influenced. Also in the last days the bible prophesied that this is the way we would know we were living in the "last days" at 2 Timothy 3:1-5 it clearly says- But know this that in the "last days"critical times hard to deal with will be here 2 men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to agreement, slanderers, without self control, fierce, without love of goodness,4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God 5 having a form of Godly devotion but proving false to its power and from these things turn away.

@ Abuzola please dont take my non belief in the trinity as a example of the bible being flawed becuase it is not. What is flawed is the teachings that have come forth from humans through the years. The bible is very clear and does not contradict itself,but the bible uses a lot of symbolism and metaphores which often times gets misenterpreted.

@ Huxly, I am sorry I misread your thread. To answer your thread I would have to say that no humans could never be more powerful than Jesus becuase Jesus's power is only seccond to Gods. Even the angels in heaven are not as powerful. Jesus was in fact telling us that with faith we could do great things, not with our own power, or power of the mind, but with the power that God could give us. While Jesus was on earth yes he performed miracles as did his disciples but that was not his main goal of coming to earth. His main goal was to preach the truth about Gods kingdom and to then die for our sins. If you look at Jesus's life he suffered a lot on behalf of his preaching and eventually died for it. He also told us that this is what we are supposed to do when he told us to follow his example and go forth making disciples. What Jesus was telling us was that we could do greater things than him, not in performing miracles or feats but by preaching to even more people making even more disciples and suffering even more than he but still standing firm even if it meant our death. I say this death becuase if you think about it, isnt it our faith and belief in Jesus that will mean our salvation? So like I said before the bible uses a lot of symbolism and metaphor.

The contradictions in the theory of the trinity. Does a father call himself by the name of his son or tell others that he is his son? Jesus said he and the father were one but this is not in a literal sense. Doesn't the bible say that a husband will leave his father and his mother and he and his wife will become one? This is the same "oneness" that Jesus was referring to. Not a marriage bond, but a bond of total trust and loyalty between the two. There are also other scriptures to support this. The bible has said that no man has looked upon the face of God and lived but countless numbers saw Jesus while he was here on earth. He even touched and healed those ones. People sometimes argue that how could he have performed those miracle if he was not God? Well how did Moses perform the miracle he performed? If God is capable of transferring the life of his son who was a spirit in heaven into the womb of an earthly woman that couldn't he to enable Jesus to perform miracle while on earth.

Also Jesus fell on his face at Mathew 26:39 and prayed"My father if i be possible let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will but as thou wilt." If Jesus was the same as his father then the prayer would mean nothing. For if he willed not to undergo his upcoming sacrifice then that would have been "Gods will" and he could have simply returned to heaven right then and there. However Jesus always did what his father asked of him and not what he wanted or desired. Also there are many pasages in the bible where Jesus prayed to his father. If he were in fact God then who would he have been praying to? And what would be the importance of the prayer?

Thanx for ressurecting that thread Chris, however as long as there are questions about scripture then you will find me giving my witness on behalf of Jehovah. I am a normal woman, who enjoys doing a lot of things and one of those things is NOT being ridiculed becuase of my faith. I do not like having people spread lies about my faith and me due to the fact that this is the religion I choose, however this is what Jehovah God has asked of me and what Jesus said we were to do. Go forth making disciples. At times I would rather be on a beach somewhere sitting in the sand however I am sure there are alot of things that God would rather focus his attention on than the constant moral decline of humanity. So here I am.

Child abuse is everywhere. It is a discusting act that Jehovah hates, especially becuase of the inocence of children. However no human on this earth is perfect and sick people can show up everywhere. If there are pedopholes in the JW organization then no matter what, Jehovah sees it and will eventually bring the matter to light. As a whole JW's do not condone such acts and if one was found in the organization practicing this atrocity then they would be rejected until they were truly repentant of their sin and did not act on it anymore.

It is shocking that some come on this board to post such stupidity regarding witnesses. I nor anyone else I have ever known has ever used the door to door activity to abuse children. This is a discusting lie. However I am used to such lies being told against our religion and at this point can only expect more and more lies and persecution as the end of this system of things draws to a close.

LOL Thanx, While I understand you are against the witnesses I am fine with that. God did not make us robots. However I will continue to preach anywhere and to anyone I can becuase I believe that I found the truth. It is not the truth of man but true understanding of the bible and the truth about our heavenly father. Almost everyone who posts and says they know what JW's believe have NO clue.

I will continue to preach and even though the bad comments hurt sometimes I will continue to stand tall for Jehovah becuase it is him that is hurt the most by the misleading of the nations.

The bible talks about the great tribulation as something that "if in fact did not occur" no flesh would be saved but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short. This does not tell us that chosen ones will be taken away before the great tribulation but it holds out the hope that they along with the ones that will inherit the earth,will survive the great tribulation on earth.

If you look at Revelation 7:9,10, 14 it says After this I looked and behold a great multitude which no man could number from every nations from all tribes and peoples and tongues standing before the throne and before the lamb clothed in white robes with palm branches in their hands and crying out with a loud voice salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne and to the lamb, these are they who have come out of the great tribulation( in order for them to come out of the great tribulation they must have gone through it first) so these ones that revelation talks about must be people that actually experience the great tribulation and come out as survivors.

Now for those who may still say this referres to all chosen humans being taken to heaven after the tribulation I will again reffer to Revelation 14:1-3 (look it up for yourselves) Where it talks about 144,000 standing with Jesus , who have been" bought from the earth".Also at Revelation 7:9 it spoke of a great multitude which no one could number. If the number 144,000 were not a literal number then it would lack meaning as a contrast to the great crowd from which no one could count or number. And again at Mathew 22:14 Jesus said regarding the kingdom of the heavens:There are many invited but few chosen. If a crowd is so big that no one can number them then they would not have been described by Jesus as being a few.

Then if you remember Revelation 7:9 quoted before you will see that it does not say of these ones that they were bought from the earth  to be with Christ on heavenly mount Zion. The description of them standing before the throne again is not literal but it refers to these ones approved standing. (Revelation 6:7 -because the great day of their wrath has come and who  is able to stand) Saying they are standing before the throne does not mean they are directly in Front of the throne. (ex. when someone says this man is in good standing with the congregation)

No matter what David says about my beliefs I will continue to preach what I believe to be the truth. Just as he comes to this board with his beliefs I will come with mine. It is up to the individual to believe what they will and I nor he should have the right to try to influence someone else with insults and degrading speech. So I will refrain from arguing with him directly because I am not here to argue against David but to argue on behalf of Jehovah God and the teachings that I believe to be false.

With that said, I will say that there are going to be ones caught up in the clouds with the lord, but it is not in a literal sense. Again I will say that the bible speaks of 144.000 that have been bought from the earth, already chosen to rule with Christ in heaven. These are the ones that scripture was speaking of.But what it was concerning was the fact that have not died at the time of Christ's coming. These ones will die but will not remain in death awaiting their Resurrection to heaven. They will instantly"in a twinkling of an eye" be taken to heaven. When other es of this chosen group have died we do not know exactly when God resurrected them to heaven but for these ones that are left until Christ's coming will probably never experience death because their Resurrection will be immediate.

Now there is a lot of talk about about Elijah ascending to the heavens, but if you look at John 3 :13 Jesus clearly stated No man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the son of man Also again I will say that at 2 Kings 2:1 it says when God was to take Elijah in a windstorm up to the heavens it did NOT say He took him into heaven. If you compare Genesis 1:6-8 it says and God went on to say let an expanse come to be in between the waters and let a dividing occur between the waters and the waters7 then God proceeded to make expanse and to make division between the waters that should be beneath the expanse and it came to be so.8 And God began to call the expanse heaven. And in verse 20 it says[b]And God went onto say Let the waters swarm of living souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon to face of the expanse of the heavens[/b]

So we see here that the bible often times referred to the sky as the heavens. And to use a little reasoning here we also know that the literal heaven is a dwelling place for spirit creatures only, it is not a place that birds fly in.

From a 2002 Watchtower regarding Hell

1[b]What happens to the spirit when a person dies[/b]? Psalm 146:4 says: "His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish." When a person dies, his impersonal spirit does not go on existing in another realm as a spirit creature. It "returns to the true God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7) This means that any hope of future life for that person now rests entirely with God

Also What, then, is the condition of the dead? When pronouncing sentence upon Adam, Jehovah stated: "Dust you are and to dust you will return." (Genesis 3:19) Where was Adam before God formed him from the dust of the ground and gave him life? Why, he simply did not exist! When he died, Adam returned to that state of complete absence of life. The condition of the dead is made clear at Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, where we read: "The dead know nothing . . . In the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom." l

Unending Torment or Common Grave?
Since the dead have no conscious existence, hell cannot be a fiery place of torment where the wicked suffer after death. What, then, is hell? Examining what happened to Jesus after he died helps to answer that question. The Bible writer Luke recounts: "Neither was [Jesus] forsaken in Hades [hell, King James Version] nor did his flesh see corHellfire—All-Consuming?ruption."* (Acts 2:31) Where was the hell to which even Jesus went? The apostle Paul wrHellfire—All-Consuming?ote: "I handed on to you . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; and that he was buried, yes, that he has been raised up the third day according to the Scriptures." (1 Corinthians 15:3, 4) So Jesus was in hell, the grave, but he was not abandoned there, for he was raised up, or resurrected.


Hellfire—All-Consuming?
Separating fire from Hades, or hell, the Scriptures say: "Death and Hades were hurled into the lake of fire." "The lake" mentioned here is symbolic, since death and hell (Hades) that are thrown into it cannot literally be burned. "This [lake of fire] means the second death"—death from which there is no hope of coming back to life.—Revelation 20:14.

Are we not all sinners?

Also I have quoted from the bible directly but you continuously ignore the scriptures I post and say I am promoting bible falsities. Please open your heart and ask God to show you for himself. I am only a human, a student of the bible, who like you is trying to draw closer and closer to God. Pray and ask him to reveal to you the truth.

The bible says you will be able to tell what kind of tree it is by the fruit it produces. If you were really doing what the bible asked of you David you would be out preaching about God and his Kingdom and the gran promises he has in store for humans. We are supposed to follow Jesus's example and go forth preaching and teaching. I don't recall anywhere in the bible where Jesus became disgusted at his followers for asking questions.

And yes we are instructed not to make graven images of anything that represents God or the heavens.We may think of items like statues of mary and jesus but wouldnt that also represent what many think of as the torture stake that Jesus died upon, the cross.

God has placed his name in the bible (psalms 83:18) becuase he wants us to know him personaly and develop a personal relationship with him. How can we put faith in and trust with our whole heart and our whole soul someone we do not know? That is why Jehovah has given us his name and shown us his many qualities throughout the bible. For instance at 1 John 4:9 it tells us that God is love. At 2 Peter 3:9 -it speaks of God being patient and it also shows us how much he loves us. At Job 12:13 it says he is wise and mighty,he has councel, and he is understanding.

Gods word the bible has not only been given to us to inform us of Gods rules and intentions for our future but has also been given to us so that we may know who are heavenly father is and draw close to him.

Have you ever had a best friend, someone that you confide in and trust with your life, but yet you did not know their name or anything about them? Well how could Jehovah God have expected us to put our life, faith, and trust in him with just the understanding that we were created? Just like David said at Psalms 91:2 -You are my refuge and my stronghold. My God in whom I will trust, we want to feel the same way about God and to truly draw close to him we need to get to know him.

These types of spiritism along with all other forms are tools used by Satan and his demons to mislead us. These mediums and horoscopes and psychics can give us information that may seem to help us but can we trust guidance from Satan the devil who the bible tells us is a liar?

It also harms us because it can destroy our relationship with God (Deuteronomy 18:10,12-anyone who employs divination,practicer of magic, who looks for omens, a sorcerer, or one who binds others with spells, consults a spirit medium, or a professional forteller of events, or anyone who inquires or the dead. Anyone doing these things is detestable to God). Also at Leviticus 19:31 it says "Do not turn yourselves to the spirit mediums and do not consult professional foretellers of events so as to become unclean by them. I am Jehovah your God."

Its really clear on the answer. I thank God for the bible, it always amazes me.

I am sorry but there is no need to snoop around for anything in this system of things because these things now are temporary and will not last. The bible states that in the new earth no man will build and another take occupancy(Isaiah 65 :21,22). Life on the new earth will be fare for ALL humans and no human will have to do without like the present system of things. It also says that[b] in the new earth the former things will not come to mind (Isaiah 65:17)[/b]

The earth and everything of the past will be gone. Jehovah God says he he will be making ALL things new (Revelation 21:5)

I do not want to argue with you about scriptures. I can only hope and pray on our behalf that God will open your eyes to the truth. He is a God of love and does not wish for one single person to be destroyed on the day of his wrath(2 Peter 3:9) However Satan does want humans to be destroyed. That is what is to blame for all of this confusion regarding religion and even peoples blindness to the facts, for Revelation 12:9 says that Satan and his demons are in the vicinity of the earth and they are misleading the entire inhabited earth. Look in your bible and you will find the quoted scriptures. Jehovah wants everyone to know the truth and the scriptures are there waiting for you to examine.

Another thing, before you dismissed it is nonsense did you look up the scriptures that supported that? Or did you just assume that it sounded crazy so it must be?

Before dismissing this please take a look at these other scriptures that support

Mathew 5:5- Blessed are the meek ones for they shall inherit] the earth.

Psalms 37:29 -The rightous shall possess the land and dwell forever upon it

1st Corinthians 15:50- Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God

Revelations 20:6 - They shall be preists of God and of Christ and they shall reign with him a thousand years. (these are the 144,000) And they will reign with Christ over earthly humans. The humans the bible spoke of at Mathew 5:5

Again Proverbs 2:21- The upright will inhabit the land (or dwell on earth in some bibles), and men of integrity will remain in it.

Lastly 1 Thessilonians 4 :17 And we Christians cuaght away to heaven shall always be with the Lord.

The bible talks about what will happen to two diffrent groups of Christians. The ones that will inherit the earth and the ones that will be given the gift of a life in heaven. Look in your bible if you doubt these scriptures

I quoted the scriptures. If it is nonsense then you are saying the bible is nonsense because it is in the bible.

It is in the "bible".

In the bible there are scriptures that speak of the wicked going to hell but at[b] Job 14:13 Job prayed to go to hell for protection. It said in that scripture -Who will grant me this, that thou may protect me in hell and hide me till thy wrath pass and appoint me a time when though wilt remember me.[/b]

If hell was a place of everlasting torment then why would Job have asked to be hidden there until God was no longer angry with him. Also at Job 1:8 God himself said that Job was a man blameless and upright fearing God and turning aside from bad. Job was simply asking to die. He wanted to die and was asking God to remember him or in other words resurrect him at a later time. Often times in the bible hell, hades, and sheole simply referres to the common grave. However what is it referring to when it speaks of the wicked going there and who are the wicked it speaks of?

At 2 Thessalonians 1 :9 it says what becomes of the wicked, when it says these very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength. So it is saying the wicked will be destroyed forever.

And who are the wicked that will be cut off or destroyed forever? At Psalms 9:17 it says - The wicked shall be turned into hell and all the nations that forgot God.

So in conclusion it is saying the wicked will be placed into hell in other words they will be destroyed forever and the wicked ones and the nations it talked about are basically everyone that in the end refuses to acknowledge Jehovah God as the supreme ruler of the earth and all those that will live on it.

First off in order for Hell to have any real meaning then it would have to mean that wicked humans at death would then go into a place of fiery torment to suffer the rest of their lives. However many scriptures can refute this claim as somthing that is impossable.

If we first look at Ecclesiastes 9:5 It says, The living are consious that they will die but as for the dead, they are consious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, becuase the rememberance of them has been forgotten

Second if we take a look at Psalms 146:4 it says, His spirit goes out (he dies) he goes back to the ground; in that day his thoughts do parish.

We could also look at Romans 6:23 where it says-The wages that sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord. The bible is clear in stating that death is the ultimate punishment for sin. It does not go on to say that even worse sinners go on to burn but it says the ultimate price we as humans pay for being sinners is death. Nothing more nothing less. I will continue in a moment