davidylan:

completely IGNORING the two glaring cases where men didnt die but went to heaven directly? lol that's enough to put that "source" in the thrash can where it belongs.

Krayola2:


here. i got the verse for u.

Genesis 5:21-24 21When Enoch was 65 years old, his son Methu’selah was born. 22After the birth of Methu’selah, Enoch lived another 300 years in close fellowship with God, and he had other sons and daughters. 23Enoch lived 365 years in all. 24He enjoyed a close relationship with God throughout his life. T[b]hen suddenly, he disappeared because God took him[/b]

please explain

Krayola2:

to heaven? please explain. and then the rest of mankind?

U see how biblical passages are read to mean whateva, even though there is hardly any such thing in the bible? u see? abi u sef no see am now? i dey lie? eehhn? wsup nah?

Krayola2:

The rapture is generally understood as the second coming of Christ which was described as a single event. This idea was then developed into a two stage process, and several passages strung together to support it.This 2nd view is the one the lady in the video speaks against. She explains that the verses used have little or no relationship with each other, and that this expectation is not consistent with what the biblical narratives actually describe to christians. (Note. the lady does not say anything against the traditional understanding of the 2nd coming of christ, but the idea that people will be snatched away from the earth for 7 years)

JeSoul:

Krayola said Jesus & Paul did not really preach/teach about the afterlife

Krayola2 :



What u're talkin about isn't rapture. If u watched the video, its talking about rapture. .as in the whole end times of tribulation, 2 part second coming. Did u even watch the video? S[b]he said rapture is based on the traditional understanding of the 2nd coming of Jesus. Paul believed in a second coming of christ, not in rapture[/b]. Watch the video again, listen to what she says. i think u'd agree with her. Do u think people cn just piece any verse with another and it's valid just because they appear in the bible?


Anyways, how do those verses u quote explain a seven year tribulation? Where did Jesus, or Paul ever say any such thing?  And its funny u mention those verses cause those are the exact ones the woman in the video quoted that are being used to spread this nonsense.

Krayola2:

haha. Jesoul. I have told you to check something out[b] in the Bible [/b] and get at me. . .u hve not done that.

I also explained that what the lady "rapture the lady means is the 2 part rapture with a 7 year tribulation period. Which is different from what Paul "described".

This picture u're trying to paint of me avoiding ur questions isn't accurate.

Krayola said Jesus & Paul did not really preach/teach about the afterlife

I said no such thing. I said they grew up at a time when stuff about an afterlife was introduced into Jewish thought, and that the Jewish faith does not believe in afterlife (fate of all mankind)

The point I was making with Judaism was how the whole idea of a resurrection and afterlife came into being. It was a foreign idea that was popular when Jesus and Paul were growing up. It was taught in synagogues, but it wasn't really part of their doctrine. I was tryin to make a bigger point about how ideas are picked up, become popular, and take a new life form of their own.

What u're talkin about isn't rapture. If u watched the video, its talking about rapture. .as in the whole end times of tribulation, 2 part second coming. Did u even watch the video? She said rapture is based on the traditional understanding of the 2nd coming of Jesus. Paul believed in a second coming of christ, not in rapture. Watch the video again, listen to what she says. i think u'd agree with her. Do u think people cn just piece any verse with another and it's valid just because they appear in the bible?

Chrisbenogor:

LWKMD
You guys are still at it,should I hunt down Jesoul for you?

JeSoul:

  hehe no need, I'm present 

  and I will not be satisfied until I get & see this all too elusive proof "debunking the rapture".

Chrisbenogor:

Jesoul communication is the key, remember it got to a point and I realised you two were talking of two different things and I asked for a definition from both of you and he gave his definition is it not sad that after this many pages you all were talking of different things.
The version of rapture I know is that good people will disappear one after the other and then there would be years of suffering with the anti christ. I knew spot on that you guys had different meanings, so much for nairaland debates, how about we form the rules for the panel of judges we talked about?

SoWhat77:

No matter what David says about my beliefs I will continue to preach what I believe to be the truth. Just as he comes to this board with his beliefs I will come with mine. It is up to the individual to believe what they will and I nor he should have the right to try to influence someone else with insults and degrading speech. So I will refrain from arguing with him directly because I am not here to argue against David but to argue on behalf of Jehovah God and the teachings that I believe to be false.

With that said, I will say that there are going to be ones caught up in the clouds with the lord, but it is not in a literal sense. Again I will say that the bible speaks of 144.000 that have been bought from the earth, already chosen to rule with Christ in heaven. These are the ones that scripture was speaking of.But what it was concerning was the fact that have not died at the time of Christ's coming. These ones will die but will not remain in death awaiting their Resurrection to heaven. They will instantly"in a twinkling of an eye" be taken to heaven. When other es  of this chosen group have died we do not know exactly when God resurrected them to heaven but for these ones that are left until Christ's coming will probably never experience death because their Resurrection will be immediate.

Now there is a lot of talk about about Elijah ascending to the heavens, but if you look at John 3 :13 Jesus clearly stated No man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the son of man Also again I will say that at 2 Kings 2:1 it says  when God was to take Elijah in a windstorm up to the heavens it did NOT say He took him into heaven. If you compare Genesis 1:6-8  it says and God went on to say let an expanse come to be in between the waters and let a dividing occur between  the waters and the waters7 then God proceeded to make expanse and to make division between the waters that should be beneath the expanse and it came to be so.8 And God began to call the expanse heaven. And in verse 20 it says[b]And God went onto say Let the waters swarm of living souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon to face of the expanse of the heavens[/b]

So we see here that the bible often times referred to the sky as the heavens. And to use a little reasoning here we also know that the literal heaven is a dwelling place for spirit creatures only, it is not a place that birds fly in.

Marlbron:

Why are Christians so anti-Christ? They read the bible without understanding! If we cannot understand what Christ said are we worthy to be called Christians?

Christ said, the righteous shall inherit the earth, , not the heavens. Why will you go to heaven? Were you created in heaven? Last time I checked Adam and Eve were meant to rule and inherit the earth, but the devil thwarted that. So what changed since then? Christ came to reconcile us to His Father. yes, after that the initial plan is no more derailed but eternally valid.  Its only your spirit at death that ressurects to heaven provided you are righteous.

Christ said  that in thr regeneration when the son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory ye shall also sit on twelve thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel. Mathew 19:28. Note that the disciples are now dead, so He was not referring to their lifetimes. He was refferring to when they will regenerate.


The 144,000 are virgins that will rule with him on earth. Other people will be wth him, but these are special because no guile was found in them.

Marlbron:

Why are Christians so anti-Christ? They read the bible without understanding! If we cannot understand what Christ said are we worthy to be called Christians?
Christ said, the righteous shall inherit the earth, , not the heavens. Why will you go to heaven? Were you created in heaven? Last time I checked Adam and Eve were meant to rule and inherit the earth, but the devil thwarted that. So what changed since then? Christ came to reconcile us to His Father. yes, after that the initial plan is no more derailed but eternally valid.  Its only your spirit at death that ressurects to heaven provided you are righteous.
Christ said  that in thr regeneration when the son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory ye shall also sit on twelve thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel. Mathew 19:28. Note that the disciples are now dead, so He was not referring to their lifetimes. He was refferring to when they will regenerate.

This is serious. . . . .

MrCrackles:

This is serious. . . . .

Bobbyaf:

Here is my take on what will happen at the rapture:

What happens when Jesus comes for His church? Several things:

1. The living righteous and the resurrected saints are caught up to meet Him in the air, (see 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17)

2. The living wicked are struck dead by His glory and brightness,
2 Thess. 1:6-10 say, "6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day."

In 1 Thessalonians Paul speaks of the first resurrection and associates it with the righteous who died. John in Revelation 20: 5,6 say this, "5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

The rest of the dead in verse 5, obviously means the wicked who did not resurrect when Jesus came back the second time. They will be resurrected after 1,000 years. John like Paul associates the first resurrection with God's elect who had died before Jesus came back. I'd go on to say that the first resurrection will comprise all of God's people from all dispensations, which includes those who lived before the cross, and those who lived during and after the cross. The Cross of Jesus spans all dispensations.

The earth will be empty of humans during the 1000 years.

The second coming of Jesus would have been so gloriously powerful and majestic that the earth will be broken up. John describes it as follows - Revelation 6:14-17 "14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.  15 and the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Peter describes it as follows - 2 Peter 3:10-12, "10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?"


The only life forms that will survive are Satan and His demons. According to John in Revelation 20 Satan is bound for 1,000 years. It will not be a physical binding as such, but a circumstantial one, meaning since the earth has no human form for him to tempt and deceive, his "hands are tied", so to speak. He will be left to contemplate for 1,000 years his fate, and what a mess he made of things.

Even the OT prophets saw what the day of the Lord would have been like:

Jeremiah 4:23-26 say, "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. 24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. 26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger."

Jeremiah 25:33 says, "33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground."

Isaiah 24:1,3 says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof. 3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word."

So there is unity in what the scriptures have to say concerning the destruction that will occur at the day of the Lord. Jesus is coming back as Lord of Lords, and King of Kings. He is not coming back to give anyone a second chance. Humans had ample time to pay attention to the gospel. Jesus said, "This gospel shall be a witness"

All the mockers of the bible and Jesus, God's Only-Begotten Son, will be rudely awakened. Soon and very soon we shall see the KING.

Hmm, interesting, Let us take it one by one

Meet him in the air and so shall we ever be him. So you will be with Christ suspended in the air for ever! Good for you my friend, but I don't think that will happen as the air is actuall the world. You will meet with him and be with him in the world.

2. Yes, the bad guys will be punished. Remember we are not told that the punishment will occur immediately he arrives. There will be some time lapse before he is revealed. That was why he compared it to the days of Noah.

3. I notice you are confused about the 1000yrs and the first ressurrection. Let me explain. After Christ died, he started ruling. The 1000yrs reign started with the death of the disciples and faithfuls who were killed. The 1000yr reign was from the heavens and we are past that stage now. Remember he said that all powers were given to him in heaven and on earth. For you to be qualified for the first ressurection, you first must die with him (be baptized of the holy spirit: when you are dipped in the water you are dead in him, when you leave the water, you ressurrect in Him). When you have been baptized subsequent physical death has no hold on you . If you die before his coming, it means little as you will surely regenerate when he appears. When you regenerate, you will not be overtaken by the 2nd death.

3. It is wrong doctrine to say the earth will be empty of humans. Christ went to great pains to tell us how the end will look like , including giving us signs and telling us that two people will be together, one will be taken and the other lrft. He is simply saying that the evil ones will be elliminated from the world. Note he did not say Christians or Muslims or aetheist, He only classified two classes of people. the righteous and the unrighteous. The righteous have a reward, they inherit the earth.

4. He comes as a thief in the night. A thief does not come with noise. He comes with stealth, taking you unawares. It means that when he comes, you may not know untill he reveals himself to the world. The ones that will know will be the ones he chooses. That is why when he is revealed, the world would mourn. They will mourn because even in his second coming he will not expected to find faith among men. That explains him liking the second coming to the days of Noah. Are you sure he is not already with us?