₦airaland Forum

Some deist be claiming atheist.. it's tiring when we try to teach ourselves and learn when we keep going in circles. Worse still is when you are not convicted about your own beliefs.


Jayriginal and Co, Pls can you help a brother ere. I need some learned atheist brothers we can learn from

tintingz:
First of all there is no sufficient evidence pointing towards existence of God, let me clear that to you.

why? can you help us understand why?

tintingz:
Now to answer your question, There's no one God when we look at Religions and cultures, there are over thousands of Gods believed by people. E.g Yahweh, Allah, Ra, Olorun, Brahma, Ukulunkulu, Odin, Zeus to name the few, these are Gods believed by people.

.

Do you also agree that in all these "religions", there is a central belief that there exist a "Supreme" diety over all these. Infact in some religion, some gods are seen as small, some big etc. But this is not where we are going. You claim to be an atheist, so Pls show us proof why there is no existence of a God or gods or Supreme being(s) or alien.

simply put, are you sure you are an atheist? Lol.

tintingz:
The idea of one God is a monotheistic belief which is subjective. Why do you think only one God exist and no other Gods?

The op has answered this question perfectly. it clear now that you don't understand what he has been saying.

tintingz:
Sorry the OP as not given any proof, all what he claim are just assumptions that are even contradicting his beliefs, the OP agree the first cause doesn't necessarily has to be a being. Do you believe there's a flying invisible donkey exist outside this universe, if no why?

Like I said if God actually exist we shouldn't be discussing it the way we don't debate if the sun exist or not.

This further strengthen the notion that you don't understand what the op has been saying


or if you do, Pls tell us why there is no God, fullstop.

Then tintingz, a counter claim is necessary. Tell us why you don't believe in only one God. Give us proofs and evidences.

It is boring cos you are only talking with no proofs. Teach us. Explain to us. Nobody ere wants to argue with you base on only one God. Tell us why you don't agree that there is only one God. Educate us, thank God you said you are an atheist.

Also, as an atheist, you say there is no one God, or so many Gods or no God..which is your central claim and why? Make us see reasons with you

This thread is just: " is there God or No God", " are there Gods or Many Gods"...he has given proofs, can you

Everyone here is trying to learn. No one is expecting that you agree or not.

tintingz:
I've given you reason why "one God" make sense, it doesn't mean your personal God make sense to me, it's just way better to debate on and focus on than debating about many Gods, hope you know there are thousands idea of Gods in Religions and cultures.

Yes, I'm open to any possibilities and necessities of a first cause by this I don't mean a personal God, we don't know why the universe came to be, there are possibilities something caused this universe not necessary a personal God (no sufficient evidence point to that).

Can we discuss about the ominiscience, ominipotent, ominipresence and omini-benevolent of your God as recorded in the Quran?

We're making progress, it's agree to disagree discussion. Let's move on.

Why are you running away from the op tintingz.

1. The question really is do you now agree that there is only one God? if not, produce a reasonable counter argument to support your claim


2. You have been given 3 attributes of "his Personal God".. and he asked, do you agree with them.. if not, produce a reasonable counter argument

You have to finish #1 before you jump to #2. But you haven't agreed on any. You are just whirling and whining.. only then can albaqir move on with the next set of attributes of "his personal God"

I don't know, are you an atheist or an anti-Islamic person, cos going through all your posts, it seem you have issue with Islam

Pls many of us are benefiting from this discourse, but the way you are doing things ehn, it look boring.

tintingz:
Yes, I'm open to any possibilities and necessities of a first cause by this I don't mean a personal God, we don't know why the universe came to be, there are possibilities something caused this universe not necessary a personal God (no sufficient evidence point to that).

This he explained using the concept of infinite regress and law of cause and effect..did you even read the op?

And we are not talking about a personal God ere, we are saying just only One God. You can just come out and say that you don't understand, then we explain..

tintingz:
Can we discuss about the ominiscience, ominipotent, ominipresence and omini-benevolent of your God as recorded in the Quran?

You are only digressing

The moment they believe that magic cannot and would never have an effect on any Prophet talkless The best of all the Prophets, the moment the foundation of what they believe in start to shatter.


I see no difference between the salafis and the jews/Christians who Astargfirullah, claim that Prophet Lut (a.s) got drunk, then slept with his daughters in order to continue his lineage...


But the Quran has this to say about them

"When it is said to them: Follow what Allah has sent down. They say: Nay! We shall follow what we found our fathers following. Would they do that! Even though their fathers did not understand anything nor were they guided?"

all I see is a yahoo girl with her maga

AbdelKabir:
^^ pure rubbish

Hadeeth and Qur'an came from the same source hence their rank are the same in the scale of sharee'ah, how did I know this? Allaah says "and he(the prophet) won't say out of his whims and desires except that it is a revelation sent to him, he was taught by one with immense strength(jibreel)"

Imagine "eid is not mentioned in the Quran", ....

Albaqir your attention is needed ere

Maxi112:
link for live streaming

Pls help

Which other thread o

Saläm Alaykum... Thanks brothers.. @Albaqir, you just finish this thing with no mercy.. nawao..someone cannot play with you again?


I love a discourse with proofs. Make sense. It allows reasoning. Differentiate us from others.

May Allah accept all this as an act of ibadah. May everything we have said that is sin, be forgiven. Ameen.

Jumah Mubarak

AlBaqir:
# Yeah. Like I said am earnestly waiting for his reply on this. No doubt you are asking about Tawassul.


# To make things more clearer:

* Christian believe Jesus is God, Lord or 3 in 1 God. Therefore, they sometimes prayed to him directly with intention that he is HE. And sometimes they prayed to the Father via Jesus. This second part is "Tawassul". The first part is a clear Shrik (polytheism).

The second part is via Jesus tho tawassul but it is still shirk. Right?

AlBaqir:
* Muslim do not see Nabi or anybody as God other than Allah. And Muslim do not see anybody as independent of power.

I like the way Newnas replied in the other thread. Cos the main point is can the dead hear or talk? I know the verse that says the righteous aren't dead but does Allah(swt) approves we asking from them. Some few things we start doing then tends to shirk Cos we then depends(rely) on it

You know, I can liken this case to the Bible when king Saul had to enquire from a dead Prophet (Samuel) about the fate of a battle, tho he got his answer but it only added to his sin. In the words of Samuel,..."you are disturbing my sleep, this day tomorrow, you and your sons would come here and join me...."

Nailed it. Jazakhallahu khairan. Let's wait for more people to troop in

AlBaqir:
# Both seem or is more or less the same but are not, really. Shafa'a is on the day of Qiyamat while Tawassul is on this earth. Using the two interchangeably with intention of "asking Allah", there is no difference. So, am also waiting for his reply on that.

# As per the story above, that's a debate on its own. Its one pack of lies. We don't need to digress more here.


Mr Newnas, is Tawassul via Nabi, other prophets, awliya Allah (friends of Allah), Qur'an, etc acceptable?

Newnas, pls reply this using The heading of the thread; You alone we worship, You alone we ask for help...


Cos I think there should be a difference between the way Christians pray and Muslims pray... or so I thought

AlBaqir:
# Sorry for the digression.

# Although your question is to the OP, but I think you meant "Tawassul (mediation)" and not "shafa'a (intercession)"?!

# That need proper clarification before he can answer the question which I have 100% interest in.

# Tawassul is to use something (e.g Qur'an) or somebody (e.g Prophet) as a mediator to reach Allah. You ask Allah through him.

# Shafa'a is the intercession of the Prophet on the day of Qiyamat.

# Quran talks about both.


* Viewing this space.....

You talk well. But aren't they the same? Maybe am lost.

Shafa'a is the intercession of the Prophet on the day of Qiyamat.
I want to ask cos I read somewhere, wherein the Prophet's uncle was about dying and the Prophet tried again to make him embrace Islam but the uncle refused. Then after death, Nabi tried praying (interceding) for the uncle before a verse was revealed against such thing.

Newnas:
According to the verse you quoted from ayatul Kursi, the only one who will intercede is the one Allah gives permission, and such person will only intercede for the one who is free from shirk and will only say what Allah is pleased with.

Many verses testify to this fact in the Quran:

Surah An-Najm, Verse 26:
وَكَم مِّن مَّلَكٍ فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ لَا تُغْنِي شَفَاعَتُهُمْ شَيْئًا إِلَّا مِن بَعْدِ أَن يَأْذَنَ اللَّهُ لِمَن يَشَاءُ وَيَرْضَىٰ

And there are many angels in the heavens, whose intercession will avail nothing except after Allah has given leave for whom He wills and pleases.
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

Surah An-Naba, Verse 38:
يَوْمَ يَقُومُ الرُّوحُ وَالْمَلَائِكَةُ صَفًّا لَّا يَتَكَلَّمُونَ إِلَّا مَنْ أَذِنَ لَهُ الرَّحْمَٰنُ وَقَالَ صَوَابًا

The Day that Ar-Ruh [Jibrael (Gabriel) or another angel] and the angels will stand forth in rows, none shall speak except him whom the Most Beneficent (Allah) allows, and he will speak what is right.
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

Thanks. please clarify more on what Albaqir talked about

We are digressing from the main point. I was expecting more.

Newnas, what do you have to say about intercessors? Praying on some people for help.... Please look at it from this angle: "....and none can interceed with Him except by His own permission... "

Albaqir.... Thanks. Thanks. Thanks
Jazakhallahu khairan

Albaqir.... Thanks. Thanks. Thanks
Jazakhallahu khairan

Demmzy15:
Empiree, clear sign you didn't even care to watch the video. Exceptions were made for the Iranian kids who are pure and have not been corrupted by chest beatings. Even Yasser Al Habib was able to recite clearly and beautifully as a kid but everything changed when he became a fully blown Rafidhi!

If being a Rafidhi would make me do the Right things; then I'd rather be shia

Just so unnecessary.

Jazak'Allahu Khairan!!!. Jumah Mubarak

AlBaqir:
Abiyamọ writes:


BLACKS MUST START ASKING QUESTIONS

I need to know why my ancestors were enslaved and sold like cattle for almost 2,000 years by foreigners especially by
the Arabs and Europeans


What was their offence? Why did they undergo such horrible level of brutality for so long?


Why were they treated like subhuman species? Why? Not everybody will swallow everything without questioning.


For almost 2,000 years now, blacks have been enslaved in EVERY CONTINENT of the world and it has NOT stopped.


Africa is the least developed place in the world and human life is almost worthless. It is so worthless that blacks now voluntarily risk their lives to trek across the Sahara and drown in the Mediterranean just to be willing slaves in Europe or America, something their ancestors refused to do.


I have been to other parts of the world and I know that what is in Africa is not proper. It is not normal. You cannot just
assume all of us will pretend as if nothing happened.


Something happened. A lot of evil happened to our ancestors and much of what we were brainwashed with as
kids are outright lies meant to keep the brains dead. So that is why questioning everything is important.


How did blacks get these foreign religions? How was Africa like before the slave traders came? What does the word
Africa mean? Who named it Africa? Why is Africa virtually the very last in everything reasonable in the world like human development, transparent governance, peace, economic prosperity, excellent healthcare, superb
educational system and very high life expectancy but number one in every useless thing like wars, diseases, unemployment, ignorance and poverty?

How were the Chinese able to lift 600 million people out of poverty in 15 years but Nigeria has not been able to lift even 50 million out of poverty since 1960? Why are our systems so painfully inefficient? What is the connection with history?


Why are blacks loyal and subservient to external powers and foreign myths that have not solved any of their
problems? Why is there no SINGLE SUCCESSFUL BLACK NATION ON EARTH even though blacks once ruled the
world? Why is there no single black superpower today? Why is Nigeria not a superpower despite all the resources?


So what really happened? The wise always learn from history. Everyone cannot remain delusional and ignore the horrific realities of what happened to our ancestors. You cannot enslave my family and expect me to see you as a saviour. I need to know, and that is the only thing that drives me. Anything else is irrelevant.

can

elwasee:
... And who are going to screen the appointees? The elders in your village?
Common! Wait till the new legislative arm are grounded.
PMB will teach you what governance is all about.

Hope you and your family is enjoying the lesson on governance

kennydee05:
Sai Baba everywhere
Buhari is the best thing to have happened to Nigeria since the civil war. Buhari always live up to expectation. What will the Tanoids say to this? Absolutely clueless talks.
Nothing will stop me from naming my first son Buhari though am a christian

Guy how far? Are you still naming your son Buhari

WhistleB:
My father has a document from a meeting held in 1993 in Abuja where the Northern elites rolled out plans on how to Islamise Nigeria. Starting with replacing all significant office hlders who are not Muslims with Muslims. They even said Christianity was their major challenge.

I know of this document. I wrote a report when I was in a Sunday School seminary then, funny enough I am now a Muslim. It's a personal choice though.


I really agree with the write up and truth be told, Nigerian is not and has never been a republic. We only have been deceiving ourselves into believing in one Nigeria. That's why I still and would always support Biafra. Why? Cos Ojukwu was the only one who had the gut to take his destiny into his hand. Those who fell in the war died free and all Nigerians esp the Southerners be it Yoruba or Igbo owe them. They laid the foundation of freedom but we were too stupid and myopic to see far with the promise of what was near. No wonder Awolowo upon seeing his mistakes took the juice.

I am a Yoruba man. But the case of freedom is more than just being an Igbo or even Hausa. Its about we understanding that to make this nation work, we have to stand up together for it. The first step I believe is educating ourselves that when it comes to the Fulani's, be you Hausa, Igbo, or Yoruba, you are a minority.

After this, we can talk about restructuring. Who says each state(region) can't produce what it can eat and at the same time donate to the national purse. Enough of all this forced growth. Let each state(region) grow at it own pace

Zoo Republic

Life

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