₦airaland Forum

@ElRazur,

I just hope that the basis of his moderating status have nothing to do with his debating skills.

Absolutely not! He got that role because like the average liberal out there, he has a lot of time on his hands. The conservatives in the house are too busy working and making enough taxable income to sustain their lifestyle

@Richyblack,

If I'm ignorant then you're a BIG FOOL!
You have your opinion and I have mine! Nonsense idiot!

You should ban yourself right away for such a response. Someone called you ignorant and you responded by calling him a fool. That in my opinion is a "disproportionate response." Does that ring a bell?

@Richy,

If Israel, a well known aggressor-state, strikes Iran, I expect the Iranians to strike back! This sense of entitlement by a few nations, as regards development, must be stopped.
Iran has made it clear that her nuclear program is for peaceful purposes, hence their is no reason to bomb Iran. Any so-called intelligence that shows that Iran is developing nuclear weapons must be corroborated with other sources and tabled at the UN.
Unilateral actions by rogue states in the middle-east, e.g. Israel, must not be given any legitimacy by being tolerated.
Iran must start drawing up plans for a retaliatory strike against Israel if the Zionist State is still living in the limbo of "we can do anything to any nation"!

Again, your premise is wrong. It is therefore not surprising that everything that follows makes no sense. 

I wonder who is the agressor btw the nation which considers another illegitimate and has actively called for its destruction in words and deeds; and a nation who takes such words seriously and is preparing to tackle the threat before it reaches an existential dimension.  Again, I give it to your logic if you conslude that Isreal is thew aggrssor here.

On the other hand, it is so typical of you to say Iran should strike back if hit by Isreal, but everytime Isreal strikes back when hit by IUran cronies, you cry blue murder.  So as far as you are concerned, retaliation is only the exclusive preserve of your muslim friends. Ride on brother, ride on.

@Poster,

Can you please provide your source for this story. Thank you.

@bawomolo,

Of course its easier to blame the US. True there was some adminstrative and procedural lapses before 911, but that does not excuse the animals that perpetrated the crime. They behaved like animals and should be treated as one. Whatever Bush did since 911 including so-called "torturing" of those animals has kept America safe. If those methods hasn't been worth their time, they wouldn't have continued with them. But for somone like you who sits on the outside, it is so easy to pontificate.

So tell me, you think the lives of the 3000 killed during 911 is not worth the discomfort of these terrorists if information that could have saved their lives could have been avoided through the so-called "torture"? I can't believe a reasonable person like you will take such a stand!

@bawomolo,

Intelligence is not considered actionable until there are corroborations from various sources. There is a lot of chatter out there.  It takes a lot of work and serious sifting of all those information before you determine what to act on.  Information from people like that only help to streamline what they should act upon.

So are you telling us they should ignore whatever knowledge people like him possess? And should they just ask them questions and politely back off if they refuse to answer?

@bawomolo,

Just thought to add the following. The only time they will eventually go to trial will be after the CIA is sure that there is no longer any actionable intelligence information they could glean out of those bastards. As long as they have some information, they are better kept alive as uncomfortably as possible till they have spilled out their guts and more. Then and only then would they be sent to trial and hopefully made to face the firing squad.

@bawomolo,

Maybe i have different standards from you guys but what relevant info do you get from water boarding someone or torturing prisoners in Abu Grahib?

Abu Sheikh Mohammed or whatever he is called gave useful information only after he was subjected to waterboarding. Was he actually beign drowned? (not that I am opposed to him being drowned) Absolutely not.

fighting barbarism with barbarism?  Why not just try them in a court of law

You obviously don't understand what is going on.  This is not a trial and it does not serve as punishment.  The procedure is meant to glean information from people.  This serves as intelligences that could help avoid another 911 or something of that nature.  They will indeed be tried as necessary - in a military court, and not a civil court.

@Jewman,

Why waste your time spreading this video.  I am sure if Obama sees this guy now, he will go and apologise to him on behalf of America. When is the West going to see that it is in an existential fight with powerful and growing elements in the Islamic world. We may not be at war with Islam, but Islam is certainly at war with the rest of us. Some of us woke up to this truth on 911, while others are still sleeping in their heavenly cocoon. They will soon be given another rude awakening. 

Can anyone kindly show us the passage in the Koran where the guy said the muslim is eternally at war with Jews?  Is the guy making up that story? I trust our politically correct comrades will soon be here to defend the guy.  And by the way, does anyone think this guy should not be deprived of sleep (tortured) until he shares with the western world the ALL information he knows.

@bawomolo,

I'm talking about inhumane stuff like waterboarding or depriving a prisoner of sleep. They are human beings, whether you like it or not.

They are terrorists, not crimninals. A sane person who could plan such 911 attakcs without being under the influence of drugs needs to be tortured beyond measure. I can't believe we are discussing giving those people any form of reprieves! Victims of 911 are going through worse torture each day and we are here saying those people should not be discomforted in any way. As long as you can't prove that their punishment is more cruel than their crime, you have absolutely no point.

What would be turkey's response to his treatment of kurdish prisoners? the US does it too so why should we care.

If those Kurds commit terroristic acts like the people we are talking about here, then they deserve it and more. I have no compassion for Terrorists. You call it deterrence when terrorists know that all they would have to endure if caught is the loss of their freedoms through jail time? We should set all those criminals in jail free then. It is certainly not fair towards them.

@bawomolo,

The US ignoring international wars while criticizes other countries that do so is a sign of superiority complex.  Torturing terrorist like some rogue state is barbaric.

What international laws?  Does it trump the powers of your commander-in-chief in times of war?

By the way, what torture are we talking about here? I will like you guys to be specific.  When American laws are based on the principle of "No cruel and unusual punishment", do you think the masterminds of 911 have been subjected to comparable horror that the victims of 911 went through? I just need some common sense here.

Go here to watch the match free online: http://www.justin.tv/guidatv

@Aloy.Emeka,

To say I am dissapointed with your input will be putting it mildly. You took a page out of the Leftist book by attacking your perceived opponent's personality while not addressing the issues. When are you guys going to grow up? In order to avoid this unwarranted personal attacks, I have provided enough talking points here that I expect any one interested in engaging in a debate can mull over and address. You have not done any of that so far.

What is wrong with dropping out of school? You have a problem with Bill Gates too? See how shllow your contribution is! As to where these guys were during the Bush Admin, if you had cared to follow what they had been saying since, you would have found out things have not changed. But of course since it is Obama in office, he is above criticism. If anything at all, people like Rush opposed Bush on many of his policies that expanded govt and increased social welfarism. But since Bush does not have a black skin, you summarily failed to take notice.

@topic,

Never quite sure where to post this. But since it was written by Rush Limbaugh's father and posted on his website, I decided to have it here. It is a brief history of the Signers of America's Declaration of Independence. Stories are very moving and shows what these people had to sacrifice to give us the greatest country ever known in the history of the world. Enjoy the reading.

The Americans Who Risked Everything


My father, Rush H. Limbaugh, Jr., delivered this oft-requested address locally a number of times, but it had never before appeared in print until it appeared in The Limbaugh Letter. My dad was renowned for his oratory skills and for his original mind; this speech is, I think, a superb demonstration of both. I will always be grateful to him for instilling in me a passion for the ideas and lives of America's Founders, as well as a deep appreciation for the inspirational power of words which you will see evidenced here:

"Our Lives, Our Fortunes, Our Sacred Honor"


It was a glorious morning. The sun was shining and the wind was from the southeast. Up especially early, a tall bony, redheaded young Virginian found time to buy a new thermometer, for which he paid three pounds, fifteen shillings. He also bought gloves for Martha, his wife, who was ill at home.

Thomas Jefferson arrived early at the statehouse. The temperature was 72.5 degrees and the horseflies weren't nearly so bad at that hour. It was a lovely room, very large, with gleaming white walls. The chairs were comfortable. Facing the single door were two brass fireplaces, but they would not be used today.

The moment the door was shut, and it was always kept locked, the room became an oven. The tall windows were shut, so that loud quarreling voices could not be heard by passersby. Small openings atop the windows allowed a slight stir of air, and also a large number of horseflies. Jefferson records that "the horseflies were dexterous in finding necks, and the silk of stockings was nothing to them." All discussing was punctuated by the slap of hands on necks.

On the wall at the back, facing the president's desk, was a panoply -- consisting of a drum, swords, and banners seized from Fort Ticonderoga the previous year. Ethan Allen and Benedict Arnold had captured the place, shouting that they were taking it "in the name of the Great Jehovah and the Continental Congress!"

Now Congress got to work, promptly taking up an emergency measure about which there was discussion but no dissension. "Resolved: That an application be made to the Committee of Safety of Pennsylvania for a supply of flints for the troops at New York."

Then Congress transformed itself into a committee of the whole. The Declaration of Independence was read aloud once more, and debate resumed. Though Jefferson was the best writer of all of them, he had been somewhat verbose. Congress hacked the excess away. They did a good job, as a side-by-side comparison of the rough draft and the final text shows. They cut the phrase "by a self-assumed power." "Climb" was replaced by "must read," then "must" was eliminated, then the whole sentence, and soon the whole paragraph was cut. Jefferson groaned as they continued what he later called "their depredations." "Inherent and inalienable rights" came out "certain unalienable rights," and to this day no one knows who suggested the elegant change.

A total of 86 alterations were made. Almost 500 words were eliminated, leaving 1,337. At last, after three days of wrangling, the document was put to a vote.

Here in this hall Patrick Henry had once thundered: "I am no longer a Virginian, sir, but an American." But today the loud, sometimes bitter argument stilled, and without fanfare the vote was taken from north to south by colonies, as was the custom. On July 4, 1776, the Declaration of Independence was adopted.

There were no trumpets blown. No one stood on his chair and cheered. The afternoon was waning and Congress had no thought of delaying the full calendar of routine business on its hands. For several hours they worked on many other problems before adjourning for the day.


Much To Lose

What kind of men were the 56 signers who adopted the Declaration of Independence and who, by their signing, committed an act of treason against the crown? To each of you, the names Franklin, Adams, Hancock and Jefferson are almost as familiar as household words. Most of us, however, know nothing of the other signers. Who were they? What happened to them?

I imagine that many of you are somewhat surprised at the names not there: George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Patrick Henry. All were elsewhere.

Ben Franklin was the only really old man. Eighteen were under 40; three were in their 20s. Of the 56 almost half - 24 - were judges and lawyers. Eleven were merchants, nine were landowners and farmers, and the remaining 12 were doctors, ministers, and politicians.

With only a few exceptions, such as Samuel Adams of Massachusetts, these were men of substantial property. All but two had families. The vast majority were men of education and standing in their communities. They had economic security as few men had in the 18th Century.

Each had more to lose from revolution than he had to gain by it. John Hancock, one of the richest men in America, already had a price of 500 pounds on his head. He signed in enormous letters so that his Majesty could now read his name without glasses and could now double the reward. Ben Franklin wryly noted: "Indeed we must all hang together, otherwise we shall most assuredly hang separately."

Fat Benjamin Harrison of Virginia told tiny Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts: "With me it will all be over in a minute, but you, you will be dancing on air an hour after I am gone."

These men knew what they risked. The penalty for treason was death by hanging. And remember, a great British fleet was already at anchor in New York Harbor.

They were sober men. There were no dreamy-eyed intellectuals or draft card burners here. They were far from hot-eyed fanatics yammering for an explosion. They simply asked for the status quo. It was change they resisted. It was equality with the mother country they desired. It was taxation with representation they sought. They were all conservatives, yet they rebelled.

It was principle, not property, that had brought these men to Philadelphia. Two of them became presidents of the United States. Seven of them became state governors. One died in office as vice president of the United States. Several would go on to be U.S. Senators. One, the richest man in America, in 1828 founded the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad. One, a delegate from Philadelphia, was the only real poet, musician and philosopher of the signers. (It was he, Francis Hopkinson not Betsy Ross who designed the United States flag.)

Richard Henry Lee, a delegate from Virginia, had introduced the resolution to adopt the Declaration of Independence in June of 1776. He was prophetic in his concluding remarks: "Why then sir, why do we longer delay? Why still deliberate? Let this happy day give birth to an American Republic. Let her arise not to devastate and to conquer but to reestablish the reign of peace and law.

"The eyes of Europe are fixed upon us. She demands of us a living example of freedom that may exhibit a contrast in the felicity of the citizen to the ever-increasing tyranny which desolates her polluted shores. She invites us to prepare an asylum where the unhappy may find solace, and the persecuted repost.

"If we are not this day wanting in our duty, the names of the American Legislatures of 1776 will be placed by posterity at the side of all of those whose memory has been and ever will be dear to virtuous men and good citizens."

Though the resolution was formally adopted July 4, it was not until July 8 that two of the states authorized their delegates to sign, and it was not until August 2 that the signers met at Philadelphia to actually put their names to the Declaration.

William Ellery, delegate from Rhode Island, was curious to see the signers' faces as they committed this supreme act of personal courage. He saw some men sign quickly, "but in no face was he able to discern real fear." Stephan Hopkins, Ellery's colleague from Rhode Island, was a man past 60. As he signed with a shaking pen, he declared: "My hand trembles, but my heart does not."



"Most Glorious Service"

Even before the list was published, the British marked down every member of Congress suspected of having put his name to treason. All of them became the objects of vicious manhunts. Some were taken. Some, like Jefferson, had narrow escapes. All who had property or families near British strongholds suffered.

· Francis Lewis, New York delegate saw his home plundered -- and his estates in what is now Harlem -- completely destroyed by British Soldiers. Mrs. Lewis was captured and treated with great brutality. Though she was later exchanged for two British prisoners through the efforts of Congress, she died from the effects of her abuse.

· William Floyd, another New York delegate, was able to escape with his wife and children across Long Island Sound to Connecticut, where they lived as refugees without income for seven years. When they came home they found a devastated ruin.

· Philips Livingstone had all his great holdings in New York confiscated and his family driven out of their home. Livingstone died in 1778 still working in Congress for the cause.

· Louis Morris, the fourth New York delegate, saw all his timber, crops, and livestock taken. For seven years he was barred from his home and family.

· John Hart of Trenton, New Jersey, risked his life to return home to see his dying wife. Hessian soldiers rode after him, and he escaped in the woods. While his wife lay on her deathbed, the soldiers ruined his farm and wrecked his homestead. Hart, 65, slept in caves and woods as he was hunted across the countryside. When at long last, emaciated by hardship, he was able to sneak home, he found his wife had already been buried, and his 13 children taken away. He never saw them again. He died a broken man in 1779, without ever finding his family.

· Dr. John Witherspoon, signer, was president of the College of New Jersey, later called Princeton. The British occupied the town of Princeton, and billeted troops in the college. They trampled and burned the finest college library in the country.

· Judge Richard Stockton, another New Jersey delegate signer, had rushed back to his estate in an effort to evacuate his wife and children. The family found refuge with friends, but a Tory sympathizer betrayed them. Judge Stockton was pulled from bed in the night and brutally beaten by the arresting soldiers. Thrown into a common jail, he was deliberately starved. Congress finally arranged for Stockton's parole, but his health was ruined. The judge was released as an invalid, when he could no longer harm the British cause. He returned home to find his estate looted and did not live to see the triumph of the Revolution. His family was forced to live off charity.

· Robert Morris, merchant prince of Philadelphia, delegate and signer, met Washington's appeals and pleas for money year after year. He made and raised arms and provisions which made it possible for Washington to cross the Delaware at Trenton. In the process he lost 150 ships at sea, bleeding his own fortune and credit almost dry.

· George Clymer, Pennsylvania signer, escaped with his family from their home, but their property was completely destroyed by the British in the Germantown and Brandywine campaigns.

· Dr. Benjamin Rush, also from Pennsylvania, was forced to flee to Maryland. As a heroic surgeon with the army, Rush had several narrow escapes.

· John Martin, a Tory in his views previous to the debate, lived in a strongly loyalist area of Pennsylvania. When he came out for independence, most of his neighbors and even some of his relatives ostracized him. He was a sensitive and troubled man, and many believed this action killed him. When he died in 1777, his last words to his tormentors were: "Tell them that they will live to see the hour when they shall acknowledge it [the signing] to have been the most glorious service that I have ever rendered to my country."

· William Ellery, Rhode Island delegate, saw his property and home burned to the ground.


· Thomas Lynch, Jr., South Carolina delegate, had his health broken from privation and exposures while serving as a company commander in the military. His doctors ordered him to seek a cure in the West Indies and on the voyage, he and his young bride were drowned at sea.

· Edward Rutledge, Arthur Middleton, and Thomas Heyward, Jr., the other three South Carolina signers, were taken by the British in the siege of Charleston. They were carried as prisoners of war to St. Augustine, Florida, where they were singled out for indignities. They were exchanged at the end of the war, the British in the meantime having completely devastated their large landholdings and estates.

· Thomas Nelson, signer of Virginia, was at the front in command of the Virginia military forces. With British General Charles Cornwallis in Yorktown, fire from 70 heavy American guns began to destroy Yorktown piece by piece. Lord Cornwallis and his staff moved their headquarters into Nelson's palatial home. While American cannonballs were making a shambles of the town, the house of Governor Nelson remained untouched. Nelson turned in rage to the American gunners and asked, "Why do you spare my home?" They replied, "Sir, out of respect to you." Nelson cried, "Give me the cannon!" and fired on his magnificent home himself, smashing it to bits. But Nelson's sacrifice was not quite over. He had raised $2 million for the Revolutionary cause by pledging his own estates. When the loans came due, a newer peacetime Congress refused to honor them, and Nelson's property was forfeited. He was never reimbursed. He died, impoverished, a few years later at the age of 50.



Lives, Fortunes, Honor

Of those 56 who signed the Declaration of Independence, nine died of wounds or hardships during the war. Five were captured and imprisoned, in each case with brutal treatment. Several lost wives, sons or entire families. One lost his 13 children. Two wives were brutally treated. All were at one time or another the victims of manhunts and driven from their homes. Twelve signers had their homes completely burned. Seventeen lost everything they owned. Yet not one defected or went back on his pledged word. Their honor, and the nation they sacrificed so much to create is still intact.

And, finally, there is the New Jersey signer, Abraham Clark.

He gave two sons to the officer corps in the Revolutionary Army. They were captured and sent to that infamous British prison hulk afloat in New York Harbor known as the hell ship Jersey, where 11,000 American captives were to die. The younger Clarks were treated with a special brutality because of their father. One was put in solitary and given no food. With the end almost in sight, with the war almost won, no one could have blamed Abraham Clark for acceding to the British request when they offered him his sons' lives if he would recant and come out for the King and Parliament. The utter despair in this man's heart, the anguish in his very soul, must reach out to each one of us down through 200 years with his answer: "No."

The 56 signers of the Declaration Of Independence proved by their every deed that they made no idle boast when they composed the most magnificent curtain line in history. "And for the support of this Declaration with a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."


My friends, I know you have a copy of the Declaration of Independence somewhere around the house - in an old history book (newer ones may well omit it), an encyclopedia, or one of those artificially aged "parchments" we all got in school years ago. I suggest that each of you take the time this month to read through the text of the Declaration, one of the most noble and beautiful political documents in human history.

There is no more profound sentence than this: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness, "

These are far more than mere poetic words. The underlying ideas that infuse every sentence of this treatise have sustained this nation for more than two centuries. They were forged in the crucible of great sacrifice. They are living words that spring from and satisfy the deepest cries for liberty in the human spirit.

"Sacred honor" isn't a phrase we use much these days, but every American life is touched by the bounty of this, the Founders' legacy. It is freedom, tested by blood, and watered with tears.

- Rush Limbaugh III

@tpia,

just wondering. And how does this affect the Patriot Act? Is it going to be reviewed?

Forget all that story.  It will either be ignored or slightly modified without taking away the essential tools that Bush insisted upon.  The reality of governance is beginning to dawn on Obama and national security issues are not one that lends itself to simple solutions.  Please check out the following link - http://www.democracynow.org/2009/4/16/obama_faces_deadline_today_over_release.  I'll post some salient points here.

Obama Administration Claims “Sovereign Immunity” in Attempt to Dismiss Lawsuit Against NSA over Domestic Surveillance

We speak to attorney and blogger Glenn Greenwald about how the Department of Justice has demanded the dismissal of a lawsuit brought by the Electronic Frontier Foundation based on “state secrets” and “sovereign immunity.” Greenwald says the “sovereign immunity” claim is “of breathtaking scope—never before advanced even by the Bush administration—that the PATRIOT Act bars any lawsuits of any kind for illegal government surveillance unless there is ‘willful disclosure’ of the illegally intercepted communications.”

, the article suggests, in the Times, that these abuses are not Bush-era abuses but are abuses that are, according to the article, ones that took place in, quote, “recent months” and that the abuses were enabled by, caused by, the 2008 FISA law that the Democratic Congress, with the support of George Bush and Barack Obama, passed. And at the time, the opponents of that bill, across the board, were warning that what this bill does is it guts all the core safeguards that have been in place since the enactment of FISA in 1978 and that the exact kind of abuses that this article reports would be essentially inevitable.

And the other aspect that’s worth noting is, as you just said, ever since he was inaugurated, Barack Obama has been running around shunning his Justice Department, running around the country blocking all lawsuits that are ones that are brought against the National Security Agency and the Bush administration alleging that the NSA was illegally spying on the emails and telephone communications of Americans. He has been arguing that those programs are too secret to allow courts to look into, let alone adjudicate the legality of them. And so, he’s been protecting from disclosure the very abuses that the Times this morning reported.

And yet, last Friday, the Obama administration, the Justice Department, filed the first response to this lawsuit, one claiming that the Bush administration illegally spied on Americans, and what Obama said was, number one, that the program that the lawsuit is alleging occurred. The activities that it’s alleging are too secret, and grave national security harm would result if the court looked at this program and ruled on whether it was illegal, and thus demanded its dismissal.

And then the Obama administration invented a brand new radical argument that not even the Bush administration had espoused that says that the government is completely immune from any lawsuits for illegal spying, unless they deliberately or willfully disclose to the public what it is that they learned. So they basically said government officials are immune, when they break the law, from lawsuits, except in the narrowest of cases. And so, the Obama administration sought to bar any lawsuits against Bush officials for illegal spying, after they spent the last eight months assuring the public that Bush officials would still be held accountable even though telecoms were immune

@Justgood,

You mean those techniques are too harsh for people complicit in the killing of over 3,000 americans on 911? You guys are simply unbelievable.

@davidylan,

Why are you looking for a refund? I thot your money would be put to better use in the hands of the govt? Why don't you be a Patriot and pay more taxes as suggested by Biden? And why deprive some citizens of the sacredness of patriotism by having them pay less percentage (or none) of their income in taxes?

@Igwe,

No worry about me. Unlike Obama aunty, my papers dey kampe. Believe me, you don't need me in Naija. Why should we be competing over the ladies as we seek to grow the size of our respective harem?! You hold on to Naija and I'll take care of God's own country. I know Clinton is a big competition for me here, but that is something I can handle.

@Pittbaby,

LOL,  It is difficult to distinguish sarcasm from the stupidity  on some of this forums ,  No probs

Its sarcasm alright, but its not all stupid. Sarcasm may be light-hearted, but it isn't complete withou some element of truth.

@Tubabie,

No wahala. Nice picture there.

@Tubabie and Pittbaby,

If you understand the concept of making a point through absurdity, you will not have responded the way you did.

@Igwe,

US dey O.  We thank God very mush. God is faithful even through Obama economy. How about you? Taking good care of your harem?

@topic,

Abeg Seun, Administrator or whatever you call your name. Take down this thread right away. Don't waste another minute I beg you. Why? If American officials see what we've done to their citizen, they might choose to retaliate o. Imagine what will happen if America decides to deport ALL illegal Nigerian immigrants in the US! Nigeria will be burdened with probably hundreds of thousands of people overnight.

Abeg, for the sake of our illegal homies here as well as the millions of dollars they send to Naija yearly, I will implore you to take this down kia kia. Who will second this motion?

I no get time answer all of una now. Got to be out in the field. But I always make an exception for my dear TOH.

@TOH,

Who saw the "I Am Not Your ATM" sign with a white hand giving money to a black hand

what do you think that means, Tayo dear

As I said before, I am colour blind. The only message I se there is that one person is claiming he is not an ATM to the govt. I second that statement fully.

Ehm, didn't Davidylan mention that he hardly say any sign regarding taxes? You just contradicted him. Did anyone see the sign that indicated what the tea in tea party stands for? T.E.A. - Taxed Enough Already!

@otele,

i cant believe this tayo of a guy said this. mr tayo, you mean you have not seen obama's birth certificate? even from the UK i have seen it on tv time and again when there were rumours about it. you think the republicans will sit by and watch him at the white house if they truly believed he is not supposed to be there?

My bad! I could have sworn that the only document produced by Obama was a certificate of live birth and not a birth certificate.  You must be among the exclusive few wo have seen the certificate. From what I understand, the State of Hawaii has placed the record under lock and key.  Perhaps you are the custodian of that key. Wanna part with the key and become a millionaire?

look at the minnesota senate race, that is what the republicans can do to stop somebody. how much more someone born outside the US. na wow for you o.

I'm no fan of either candidates.  Head or tail, Minnesota loses is my opinion.  However, Colemn won the initial recount. Ballots were manufactured after the count that put Franken in the lead. Coleman went to court to have other rejected and missing ballots counted also. The courts only approved of about 300 to be recounted. Over 4,000 ballots are now disregarded. I will go to court if I were Coleman too.

just like the talk about his religion b4 the election. hannity and co will say almost anything to make people believe this guy is a muslim, only he wont say it himself  . .

Of course the guy is a christian.  A christian after the order of Rev Wright!

@topic,

I finally got the book in the mail yesterday. Wow, what a wait. Unfortunately, I cannot begin to read the book until I am done with an exam in 2 weeks. As much as it is tempting, I shall refrain from delving into the intellectual goodness I am bound to find in its pages.

But I must share the Abraham Lincoln quote printed on the back of the book. It so happens that Levin took the title of his book from that quote. Here it is:

"We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labour; while with others, the same word may mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men's labour. Here are two, not only different, but incompatible things, called by the same name - liberty. And it follows that each of the things is, by the respective parties, called by two different and incompatible names - liberty and tyranny." - Abraham Lincoln, 1864!

@TOH,

*dances*

Can't wait till friday ehn? I share your setiments.

@davidylan,

the dow started its downward slide in 2007.

That's not true. And by the way, when did the DOW become the yardstick for meassuring recession?

@Davidylan,

If ever there was any such "clinton recession" (as rethugs like to pretend) . . . it sure didnt last 3hrs.

Must you keep calling names? While the dot.com bubble spilled over into the Bush years resulting in recession in his first year, I was really more particular with the recession that followed 911. As you rightly noted, the recession did not last very long because appropriate policies were followed that spurred private sector activity. Obama could learn from that.

dont also forget that this recession has been on since 2007 . . .

That is news to me. You got any data to back that up?

@davidylan,

dont mind them . . . Obama has been in office less than 100 days and some are saying hurry up. They think turning around a recession that affected even Europe and Asia takes only 3hrs.

There were two recessions under Bush. The second was after 911. How long did that last?

@TOH,

you're not allowed to bring your O'Riley book with you

I shall not show up with O-Riley
Nor be accompanied by O-bama
The only "O" that shall be with me
Are the "O"s in my bOOze-O-meter.

Oniranu

I can only wish you the same darling!

@TOH,

If by booze, you mean ginger ale then yea that's me

Whatever shacks you my dear. I'll be shacked with it and more in your company!

@TOH,

Have you been drinking Tayo? What's with the atrocious typos?

Common darling. You know I don't drink till friday! And I never do it without you, my one and only booze mate!

@TOH,

it was already going that Path when bush was around, why werent they complaining then

What more proof do you need that they were complaining besides the fact that Obama used that as the ticket to get him elected? Obama efectively ran against Bush right from the onset of the DNC primaries.  That got him the presidency.