₦airaland Forum

Krismas:
THERE IS NO RECORD ANYWHERE OLDER THAN THE PRESENCE OF PALESTINIANS IN THE WESTBANK. WHEN ABRAM GOT TO GERAR, IN THE BOOK OF GENESIS, HE MET ABIMELEK THE KING OF THE PALESTINIANS IN THE WESTBANK.

We use different bibles sir. King of Palestinians is not written in my bible. Please give me the verse.

DeepSight:
Almost certainly mixed race.

Secondly, those would be a minority, unlike today's Israel that is overwhelmingly white.

You used the word almost certainly mixed race which shows you are not 100 percent sure.
But even at that, the modern Israelis spent 100s of years in Europe so why don't you give them the same privilege. They definitely have mixed blood in them.
Still they are jews.they kept their language and heritage even when it was dangerous to do so.
For hundreds of years they were second class citizens in most countries they lived yet they kept the Hebrew language and religion even when it was more convenient to do without.
If for hundreds of years, the world accepted them as jews in other to persecute them but now they are strong and independent, you want to take it away from them, I can't take you serious.

sangresan:
No dey think with your anus again. Read and digest comments before jumping on threads to expose your ignorance.

Stop demeaning yourself.

Krismas:
iGODOMIGODO ALSO EXISTED. BUT ON WHICH WORLD MAP?
ISRAEL HAS NEVER BEEN A NATION ON ANY WORLD MAP EXCEPT ON RELIGIOUS MAP AND FAKE BOOKS LIKE BIBLE

When was the first world map of nations made?
We're there nations before the maps were created?
What about the history and archeological findings, do we also discard that.
The writings of the historian Flavius Josephus does it also not count?
Many archeological findings are written in Hebrew and can be ready by modern Jews who speak the same language

DeepSight:
They are white.
Jews of old were not white. They were brown just like their neighbors, Arabs.

Hope you know that there are many Arabs with blond hair or blue eyes or extreme fair skin like any European?
If you think I am wrong just ask google. I have seen syrians who would pass as Germans if they don't tell you.

sangresan:
You're simply exposing your emptiness on social media. The joke is on you anyway.

Oya stop demeaning yourself nah. Biko just go.

DeepSight:
They are white.
Jews of old were not white. They were brown just like their neighbors, Arabs.

Oga I am still waiting for your evidence since you bring up a very interesting discussion.

sangresan:
Meaningless monologue from a kindergarten pupil. Keep barking like a rabid dog that you are.

You are so bent on demeaning yourself. Please have some self worth oga. I am begging you.

khattab02:
because they exist does not give them permanent ownership.


They are winning the wars now and conquering the lands. This thing has been happening in that region back and forth for how long God knows

Yes, it's possible that one day, they could be wiped off the land. If that is the point you have been making all day, I will be forced to agree with you. Anyone could be wiped off his land by more powerful force. Saudi Arabia could be wiped off, same goes for us, UK, and Japan.

DeepSight:
Just as the Jews of today ARE NOT the Israelites of old.
They are white Europeans, whereas those of old were Semitic brown people like Arabs.

Please what is your evidence?

khattab02:
Good, this is what I want u to see.


Am using the bible because that is the only thing the jews used to claim there.



Ask them, where is your title deed, they point to the bible.





They lived over a thousand years there with each other and no problem.



Now they want to create and expand the Jewish land, they are prepared to do worse to what Hitler has done to them.


They don't care who is there or was there.



There are also christian occupant of Gaza and Palestine. They don't care where they go from there.

I still do not understand your argument here. You have said so many things that are wrong.
The bible is not the only claim of the children of Israel.
Contemporal history and archeology also proves the ancient Israel existed. So what exactly is your point?

khattab02:



The Canaanites in these regions are which tribe and race?

You already called them Canaanites and you are asking their tribe again?
Let me send you a link to help you with your questions.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan

khattab02:
Ok let me rephrase..


U said the bible didn't mention Palestine by name I guess,

Then I asked, who was David and the jews fighting during that time?


When they left Egypt, they conquered lands

They were fighting the Canaanites not the Palestinians. The Palestinians are not the children of the Canaanites please don't make that mistake.
The Palestinians are more than 90% Arab. Canaanites are not Arabs. In fact, the Arabs conquered and destroyed many Canaanites communities in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Palestine.

khattab02:
where is it that the jews owned the lands?



I just gave u some occupancy that occured in history, does it translate to permanent and enternal ownership??



Why does this ideology only applied to the Jewish land as they claimed?

You have a point here and I will give it to you. No one can boast of eternal ownership of land.
But then you should tell that also to the Palestinians.
Let them stop crying and fighting for a land that their fathers lived in 70 years ago since it does not belong to them eternally.
But if you are using the bible as your case study, the land was given to Israel as an eternal inheritance. So I am still not getting your point.

khattab02:
please who and who was the God of the bible telling David and ko to kill in the bible?


Who and who were the Jews fighting in the bible?

I am not sure I understand your question please rephrase.

sangresan:
Your mumu has no equal. You were the one who stupidly thought you could distract me with tantrums.

Are you this irresponsible? You are so determined to demean yourself today. Are you not the same boy that said Exchanging words with me is demeaning to to? You clearly don't have any respect for yourself. Please learn to have self control.
Since you feel this discussion is demeaning to your person, I should not be the one begging you to stop it.
What kind of man intentionally sets out to demean himself? Haba

sangresan:
Exchanging words with you is demeaning to me. If you use your brain for thinking, you would have known that the comment was made in reply to an earlier post which I did quote. So, how did you arrive at blah blah blah Arabs slave blah blah blah?

Let's even assume that the comment was made to justify what you claim. Even a toddler knows that the hardest jobs are often assigned to slaves, especially skilled ones. If I were you, I would have opened my Google browser immediately to check if the Mamluks were indeed enslaved in the Kanem-Borno Empire and if they were also adept at using cannons and artillery.

Please let me not allow you to demean
yourself. Please don't exchange words with me. I see you as a distraction in my discussion with others. So thanks and have a beautiful day.

sangresan:
Who is this mugu? I am telling you a documented history witnessed by white missionaries that was still posted yesterday on Nigerian Nostalgia Project Pre-Independence Forum and you're saying blah blah. Do you think Africans didn't build empires and kingdoms before contact with the Arabs and Europeans? You think those kingdoms didn't wage wars and enslave others?

Your point is that the Arabs reason for slavery was to get people to shoot guns and I agreed with you already nah. Do you have more to add.
There is a level of ignorance that I don't even know how to start a discussion

DeepSight:
If you cant understand that this does nothing to justify slavery or apartheid anywhere, then I give up.

My point is that you have no reason to have brought up slavery especially as you know that the Arabs were the worst offenders. I just want to understand your slavery argument and how it applies to the discussion.
Also before you give up, remember that I would arrange my earlier write-up in the evening after work.
Thanks

DeepSight:
It certainly is not me you are speaking to when you say "learn your history." It can't be me. It must be a mistake.
Now listen up - Have I not told you I am well acquainted with the Arab Slave Trade? So what are you on about.
All slavery is condemnable.

I said you damaged your case when you brought up the slavery issues. If not for the evil western world, African would still be legal slaves in the Arab world. So why did you bring up the slave trade issue?

sangresan:
Mumu is your second name. There were Mamluks slaves in the Kanem-Borno Empire till the time when Dan Fodio launched his Jihad on Borno. They, the slaves, handled the cannons and artillery used to fight the invaders.

If you think that the purpose of the Arabic slavery was only to get people to handle the cannons and artillery used to fight the invaders, then I have nothing more to say to you.
You are right, Arabic slavery was all about getting people to shoot guns

DeepSight:
Caging a people in an open air prison, seizing their land and restricting their movement is slavery, even if another kind.
Ol boy its not until you are picking cotton in a plantation that you are a slave.

You mean the Arabs did not imprison their slaves and restrict the movement of their slaves? Please google the castration of slave by the Arabs. Please learn your history and stop playing around. It was these same whites that forced your Arabian masters to stop slavery. Saudi Arabia only stopped in 1960. I keep saying it, learn your history. Stop being ignorant.
The first 10 countries in the world to end
slavery were all western countries.

DeepSight:
Pls go and tidy up that post. The quote marks are scattered.

Sorry about that maybe I would do so after work. Later in the day then.

sangresan:
Stop exposing your ignorance here. Slavery is part of human history. Africans had been enslaving Arabs and Europeans before the tide turned. There were still enslaved Mamluks in Borno up till the 19th Century.

However, the enslavement of blacks by Europeans was the most pervasive and repulsive in human history.

Some of you just open your mouths for the sake of it. Please can you prove the nonsense you wrote?
You don't just wake up and type nonsense that isn't based on any history fact.
More Africans were sold through the Arab route that to the western world
Learn your history and stop disgracing yourself

DeepSight:
I am well aware of the Trans Saharan Slave trade and even writing a book on it. Slavery everywhere is bad, and Israel's enslavement of Palestinians is no less repugnant.

You have any evidence of slavery of the Palestinians or is this another false accusation?

DeepSight:
.

Stop being so one-sided and supporting Israel on account of your religious bias which they dont even give a damn about. The Palestinians are a captive people, and they are the weaker people in this long conflict. Israel is supported by the powers that be, the USA, the UK and most of Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. Palestine is a small impoverished captive state being violently oppressed and cheated and if you have a human heart, you should also sympathize with them instead of always rooting for the bully. What you are doing is no different from supporting the slave masters during the slave trade, or the white minority apartheid government of South Africa during apartheid.

Please read my initial reply above but then you spoilt everything by bringing up slavery.
As I said earlier, the Arabs began the slavery of blacks before the western world and only stopped in the 1960s.
Below are some links for you to educate yourself on the matter.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_the_Muslim_world

https://www.fairplanet.org/dossier/beyond-slavery/forgotten-slavery-the-arab-muslim-slave-trade/
Do you know the Arab world for blacks?
Abeed or abīd (عبيد, plural of ʿabd, عبد), is an Arabic word meaning "servant" or "slave.
So you see why I said bringing up slavery destroyed your argument?

[quote author=DeepSight post=128610278]The modern State of Israel is a creation of the United Nations, arising from the British Mandate over Palestine. After the Second World War it was decided that the Jews needed a permanent place to call home given their horrible persecution in Europe, which had in fact gone on for centuries but became most noticeable with the Nazi implemented holocaust.
Not wrong but then even before then, the British empire who owned the land at that time had agreed to give the land to Israel in 1917. The Balfour Declaration.

At this time, Palestine had already been occupied for centuries by the Arabs we now call Palestinians and it was home to them since the time of the Crusades. This was because Jews had become scattered across the world after the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.
Partly correct. By 1947, Jews made up 30% of the population of Palestine. Many of those Jews have been living there for centuries, even longer than the Arab occupation. Not all or most Jews but many Jews.


Now since Israel was a creation of the United Nations, it cannot deny the instruments and resolutions of the United Nations in the matter of its legitimacy and boundaries. And in that regard, several attempts have been made to make peace between the Jews and the Palestinians. In that process, Israel has won a number of wars and in fairness to them, some of these were started by Arabs but won by Israel - as a consequence of which Israel expanded its territory.
The Arabs never agreed to the UN mandate in the first place. If the Arabs have won, you would not have one Jew in the land. Israel won and yet we still have Arabs. 20% of the population of modern Israel is made up of Arabs. We even have an Arab in the supreme court.

[b]However the rapprochements which have been made since are clear on the fact that the Palestinians also have every right to self determination. Contrary to this spirit, Israel has conducted expansion into the West Bank, continuously taking over land clearly reserved by all negotiating parties for the Palestinians. The United Nations has repeatedly declared the West Bank Settlements illegal however Israel simply does not stop. It gates out the Palestinians in their own land and holds Gaza as a hostage territory. It allows no imports without its permission and it guards the borders of Gaza in such a way that it has since been called the world's largest open air prison. They have virtually enslaved the Palestinians and denied them liberty so much so that both Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu recognized what Israel was doing as apartheid, and this is the basis of South Africa's long standing support for Palestine, because they see what was done to them being done to the Palestinians. If you have a chance to watch a thorough documentary on what is being done to the Palestinians in the West Bank, you will weep for them.[/b]
Few things here.
First all the land was legally given to Israel by the legal owners the British empire in 1917.
2. The Arabs only aim was to kick the Jews from the land so they have zero moral justification when same is done to them.
3. More than 800,000 Jews were kicked out from other Arab countries since 1948 hence the Jews have a right to settle there people in captured land. Today, we don't have people like you fighting for the Jews to reclaim their lands in Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Jordan etc.
4.The Jews can choose to disobey the UN resolution as it is non binding. They are not legally bound to it.
5. Israel has agreed to a 2 state solution many many times. The last was presented by Trump in 2020. The Palestinians always refused.
6. The people of Israel finally learnt in oct 7th that it's a very bad idea to give more land to the Palestinians. They gave Gaza freely in 2005 and they have gotten in return was sorrow tears and blood.

[b]There is no way you can treat a people like that and expect that there will be no fight back, and of course when there is a fight back you then call it terrorism. This is the same way Nelson Mandela was called a terrorist by the apartheid government of South Africa and kept on the terrorism watchlist of the United States up till 2008.

Stop being so one-sided and supporting Israel on account of your religious bias which they dont even give a damn about. The Palestinians are a captive people, and they are the weaker people in this long conflict. Israel is supported by the powers that be, the USA, the UK and most of Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. Palestine is a small impoverished captive state being violently oppressed and cheated and if you have a human heart, you should also sympathize with them instead of always rooting for the bully. What you are doing is no different from supporting the slave masters during the slave trade, or the white minority apartheid government of South Africa during apartheid. [/b]
The Palestinians have received over 100 billion dollars in the last 20 years from world nations.
They are not as impoverished as you think.
There only problem is bad leadership.
Did you know that both Gaza and Palestinians in the west bank rank better than almost all African countries on development index?
Did you know that life expectancy in Gaza is 73 years. In your country Nigeria, life expectancy is only 55 years.
Now talking about slave trade, the Arab slave trade was much worse than the western slave trade and it only ended in the 1960s. So even if I have to consider slave masters, the Arabs are more guilty.

DeepSight:
Okay.

Lets start with the establishment of the modern state of Israel in 1948.

Before I forget, would you love to read some historic records about the land?
Please read the records of the historian Titus Flavius Josephus (36-100 CE). By this time, no Arab lived in the land. And Mohamed was not yet born.
It's purely historical records not religious to know how long the Jewish presence have been in that land.

khattab02:
Ok, but mentioning them doesn't not translate to land ownership.


They have been moving from places to places in that region. It doesn't translate to their sole ownership.


What of when they lived in Egypt?


That's the point

Living in Egypt precceded the formation of Israel.
If you are dependent on the religious records, clearly the children of Israel had sole ownership of the land for more than a thousand years. In fact, they onwed a land much bigger than modern Israel in landmass.
But then contemporary history and archeology also shows that the land belonged to the house of Israel.
Please read the records of Titus Flavius Josephus (36-100 CE) to learn more. Islam was not even form by this time.

DeepSight:
Okay.

Lets start with the establishment of the modern state of Israel in 1948.

Oh, I see you surrender thousands of years of history and want to talk about just 70 years? No problem, I agree, go ahead.
Let's start from 1948.

DeepSight:
Don't be silly, I pointed that out because you were citing bible "history."

Without the bible, you wouldn't find any other historical reference to the genocide of the Canaanites that you speak about. Not one. So why do you stick to that as an argument.

DeepSight:
I dont need to since I am addressing one who uses the bible as his grounds for supporting the Jewish claim and Jewish supremacist racism and genocide.

I never use the bible as grounds for my support. I could use the ruling of the UN court to show that Israel is not guilty of genocide in the case south Africa just lost.
Please let's go back to non religious history please.
Let's talk archeological findings, let's talk science but let's leave religion out of this, are you ready?