₦airaland Forum

Lukuluku69:
Let me dust up. I will holler you with my source but it has been a while. If I tell you that the last time I very did any serious reading about stuff generally is more than 39 years ago would you believe me?

I know he owned slaves. In fact in hundreds self.

Until you prove it, It remains false.

Lukuluku69:
That is the difference between you and us. God knew you will throw away His Law and follow your whims and caprices. He knew as you said that you do not depend on His revealed Words to live your lives and manage your affairs.

On the contrary, the Muslims live and breath the Shari'a.

So really, there should be no arguments. For you the Laws in the Bible is of no consequences. You would rather follow what a fallible man says God told him and not what you believed were inspired word to a Spokesperson of God in His Prophets.

God told Abraham to kill his son and did you read thru his action he was not going to? That shows his willingness to obey and act.

When the sharia says punish, I find it odd that people who are not the culprit or the accused are the one shouting the most.

So, what is God telling us today as you can see that the world is in turmoil

Well, we can discuss religious views and opinions and that is the beauty of freedom. We can agree or disagree. Wouldn't it be nice if all the world had the same privilege? Imagine a world where we don't force or kill others who don't agree with us, where people can air their views and opinions, and where people can change their opinions openly as they come to learn more. That is what you and I enjoy.

The Islamic religion can only be maintained via killing and force. Remove killing and compulsion, add a little bit of human rights and the religion begins to crack.
On the other hand, Christianity is the religion of tolerance and freedom. No Christian is compelled or forced. We are Christians because we love our God not because we would be beheaded if we change our minds. That is the difference.

Lukuluku69:
Oh it need dusting but I am a good student or just an average student? Lol.

See, go back and read up on Abraham Lincoln. He owned slaves. Perhaps he freed them later in accordance with the policy of abolition.

For I know that the major cause of the war his the issue of slave ownership.

The South needs more hands on the farm and for Lands recently seized from the gringos while the the industrial North would have non of that

Abraham Lincoln owned slaves.

Do you mind quoting your source, sir? Or was this revealed to you personally?

Lukuluku69:
Just so you know, the Muslims won't abandon the Shariah the way the Jews and Christians did with God's Laws and commandments.

When you know this, you will know peace and try to avoid conflict.

It is called an everlasting Law for a reason. Unless you are saying God was bluffing with the "everlasting" part

I beg I wan go chop

That's why we have Boko Haram and other terrorist groups. I have never had a religious conflict with anyone. I am not a religious terrorist.

Lukuluku69:
I don't understand the Laws of the Bible? Really really?

Please tell me what the Laws of the Bible says when someone entices me to go worship another god aside the one that Inspires Moses?

And why did God told Moses to kill the golden calf worshippers if indeed He (God) allows for freedom of worship and why did Moses ordered that a man be stoned to death for breaking the Sabbath which the Lord God has keep holy?

I will wait ..

The Bible says many things. The Laws of Moses are not the same Laws practiced by new testament Christians. And one thing you guys do not understand about Christians. We do not depend on the Bible for God's revelations. God has not stopped speaking to man so rather than ask what the bible said or what Moses did, ask what has God revealed about a certain matter.
God commanded Abraham to kill his son but today if you see your neighbor about to kill his son, you would call the police. So the question is not what God told Abraham or Moses but what God tells us today. That is the Christian way.

Lukuluku69:
Well, be the judge and score me if you were to be my Professor as your student. Lol.

These names you put up there, please find out if those guys up there were Slaves owners before or after the prohibitions?

Abraham Lincoln was he not the President when the North and South of America fought their Civil War! Bros, check well, he owns slaves.

Oga, your history needs some dusting. All these men were presidents before Lincoln.
Don't take my words for it, do a little research. Google 'which American Presidents owned slaves.'

Lukuluku69:
I
And in doing better, who calls the. Shots? Whose Laws/Codes would be applicable to us all?

Who defines what is just and what is not?

There are Laws and Commands, injuctions in the Bible you carry. Are you ready to abide by them?

The Muslims are ready to abide. If we do this, the world will be a better place for us all

First, you do not understand the laws in the bible. Secondly, I would live and abide by the teaches of my religion but would not force or compel anyone to follow my religion. Let me quote from the bible.
Joshua 24:15 Choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord”
My religion allows others to worship, believe and practice whatever they choose.

Lukuluku69:
Let the Muslims seek for that separation themselves. It is not your call

The Roman Catholic Church influence I be Europe was overwhelming. Rome, France, Dutch land, Spain wwre under their influence. It was Rome that raised the Crusading Armies

And their the Anglicans were still under their influence in many respect they only parted ways when.a certain England King ignored the Papal office over a marital issue. Get your fact right

You can read about many wars they sanctioned within Europe to silence rebellion too

Of course, if it were my call, I would have long since rescued the Muslim world. But like every good citizen of the world, I am concerned.

Lukuluku69:
There is a story of the Hunter writing about his exploits in the hunting business. Had the hunted too had the same chance to tell his stories perhaps we can hear from the other side of the story too.

Abraham Lincoln was a slave owner bros. He did not end shi t

I gave you and example of the Queen of England. He heads the Anglicans. They own slaves and Territories till independence were granted these colonies up on till 1975!

Till now, the aboriginal population are still disenfranchised in Australia and the Brisish are staying put. Same thing in Latin America.

Only last week the Pope was on a Pilgrimage of Penance to Canada. To seek the first Nation and other tribes forgiveness for the death of over 3,000 kids who were forcefully taken from their parents in order to re-educated them and forced them to think and act like European Chrisrians.

You some of the names you mentioned you there might bear Europeans names and attend Churches, deep down they are Free Thinkers who just have to conform because European Christians and Society do burn at the stakes!

You have failed to mention the Atheist that ended slavery.
And if you don't know the role Lincoln played in abolishing slavery in America then you really know nothing about history as you claim.
Little history lesson, below are the list of American president who owned slaves. Abraham Lincoln never owned slaves.
American Presidents Who Owned Slaves
George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
James Monroe
Andrew Jackson
Martin Van Buren
William Henry Harrison
John Tyler
James K. Polk
Zachary Taylor
Andrew Johnson
Ulysses S. Grant
Are you really sure you are a student of history?

Lukuluku69:
That leash what put in place to check your bigotry and hatred by the owners of Nairaland

And no, the European Christian society you alluded to was on Rome's and Papal Laws and not the Laws of God as stated in the Bible. So, to cut that influence, a separation of the Church and state was necessary.

In Islam, the Mosque and the State go together, so you will have to wait till as they say Kingdom come for that separation.

Funny the leash was not put on any other religion. You guys are fragile hence we are more careful around you guys.
And you need to check your history, by the time the Europeans separated Church from the state, The Roman Catholic was not the sole church in Europe.

And I only seek the separation of Mosque and state for the good and freedom of Muslims worldwide. I have nothing personal to gain from it. I only want a world where everyone would have freedom of speech, equal rights, gender rights, and the right to worship according to the dictates of your conscience and not under force or the threat of your life.

Lukuluku69:
Bros, it is called World War for a reason. Yes the Japanese and the Ottoman Muslims and Chinese took part but the Major players are Europeans. True or false?

The Japanese never entered European soil safe that bombing at Pearl Harbor just to weaken the American Naval Power. They had their own theatre in the Far East.

And the Russians were Christians! The communist are just the Leaders. The mass of the people who faught were Russian Christians.

And it is not out of place to find alliances in wars. Yes, the Ottomans and the Japanese Shinto's and the Hindus got ennessed but the Europeans are the major players. Over a 100m souls perished in Europe alone.

The Ottoman Empire was a major player in WW1 and Russia and Japan were major players in WW2. Yes, more people perished in Europe simply because the Germans were more powerful.

Lukuluku69:
So, if Christians did and Muslims did and everyone else did, don't you think we should close the book and just enjoy the show rather than justify one and vilify another?

No, we should seek to improve and do better.

Lukuluku69:
Christian world against war and want peace? Who fought the First and the Second World wars?

The most ARMED NATIONS of this present time are the so-called Christian Nation according to Nairaland Christians. Thousands of Nukes to take out who exactly?

Russia and Ukraine are both Christians. And they are still fighting.

Like I said, in the Kingdom of God, there is no freedom of worship. That is why those worshipping the golden calf had to die by Moses sword and the man that infinged on the Sabbath had to die by lapidation (stoning).

When it comes to tolerating each other practices and indosyncracies the Mulims are better at handling it than you Christians.

But when it comes to applaying what we know to be Divine commands, bros we don't joke o.

The 2 world wars have nothing to do with any religion.
The Ottoman empire was Muslim, they fought and were defeated in the first world war. The Russians and Japanese were major players in the 2nd world war. The Russians were mostly an Athiest nation and the Japanese were not Christians. Please get your history right,

Lukuluku69:
Bros, you don't have to tell me to read about any Muslim conquest. I am a student of World History and a grounded student of anything Islam. I know ALL about Muslim Conquest. Their success and failures. Why they succeeded and why they failed.

I know the Land they will have successs and the Land they will fail.

1 Yes the Muslims took Persia that was foretold in the Bible. Read the Book of Daniel and Nebuchadnezzar and Daniel's Vision. Besides, the Persians were expecting a Reformer of their Zoroastrian Faith. That is why they sent Emissaries to the crib of Babe Jesus to check him out.

2. Yes, the Muslims took Constantinople. That was foretold in the Book of Daniel too.

3. The Muslims will come for Rome when the times comes. So, wait for it, it may tarry but wait for it.

4. As for India, read their Scriptures, they were expecting foreign invaders who will own their palaces and country

I know why they failed in Spain

So, my friend saying I should read up on my own history is wack.

Rather why not check out what these Christian Europeans did in Australia, North and South America?

How they reduce the aboriginal populations from over 15m souls to barely 500k after about 200 years of getting to Australia?

How the Spaniards decimated South America and many other places?

You are not getting my point, everything the Christain nations did, the Muslim nations did also. At that time, every nation was either invading or being invaded.
The native Americans equally invaded each other. It was the way of the world then.
It is hypocritical to blame one nation and not the other. So What really is your point? You praise the Muslims for the invasion and criticizes the Christians?

Lukuluku69:
No. Free Thinkers and Atheists stopped it. They spoke against it.

The Kind/Queen of England is the Head of The Anglicans. They owned and traded in Slaves. So, what do you mean Christians stopped it?

The Dutch Royals owns and traded in Slaves were they not Christians?

Stop repeating that lies. The Free Thinkers ans Atheists who never believed in God and His Commandments "saw" the evil in it and spike against it.

I actually understand where Islam is today. The Christain world used to be in the same place about 700 years ago. But today, Islam remains the most intolerant religion on earth. Even here on Nairaland, you are the only religion given a safe space. At first, I was angry with Naiaraland for doing so but with time I understand that Islam is quite intolerant and the average Muslim gets violent when his religion is criticized. We Christians criticize ourselves. We even abuse each other's Churches but the era of killing for religion is fading away. This is the era of tolerance.

Lukuluku69:
Their is a reality called life. It happens to us all. In all system of men, there are rules and codes. What I am saying is, right from when the first government was set up on this earth, Nations have warred against each other, People have been killed and people are still being killed and peoe will be killed. That I can not change nor will you

If my position avove is true, then a system/Law/Code must be in place to regulate it. To think that man will not continue to fight each other is to wake up to that reality.

As we converse, the Russians and Ukrainians are kking each other(if they were to be Muslims, we for no hear word but they are both Christians, so no big deal)

The Chinese are sabre rattlig over Taiwan.

That has been the condition of men since time immemorial.

Islam came to regulate all that with a comprehensive Code. A sort of Rule of Engagement

I agree that all through life, people have been killed and people are still being killed. The only difference now is that the Christain world is generally against these wars and killings, But the Muslim world actually misses the good old days when they rules the world and went on a killing spree from nation to nation.

As you said, the Muslims would kill you if you believe in religious freedom and dare to think differently. The Muslims are not tolerant of different opinions and they would behead any Muslim that dares to think differently. So you guys are under captivity. You have been made docile, You cant question or challenge your religion without losing your head.

It's funny that you think Muslims are more tolerant. The easiest way to get killed is by saying anything against Islam or making a Mohammed joke.

Lukuluku69:
No. Free Thinkers and Atheists stopped it. They spoke against it.

The Kind/Queen of England is the Head of The Anglicans. They owned and traded in Slaves. So, what do you mean Christians stopped it?

The Dutch Royals owns and traded in Slaves were they not Christians?

Stop repeating that lies. The Free Thinkers ans Atheists who never believed in God and His Commandments "saw" the evil in it and spike against it.

I don't know where you get your history from.
Was Abraham Lincoln an Atheist?
Was William Wilberforce an atheist?
Was Charles Spurgeon an atheist?
Was Charles Finney an atheist?
Others
Theodore Weld,
Harriet Beecher Stowe
Lyman Beecher
Please mention the atheist that fought slavery. I am open to learning from you.

Lukuluku69:
Neither here nor there. Slavery stared Centuries before the Arabs ventured out of the deserts. Babylonians did it, ditto for the Persians. The Romans, the Greeks, the Africans themselves took Slaves. The Yorubas made slaves of fellow Yorubas. Africans made slaves of fellow Africans.

All these while are you saying there are no people who see the evil in Slavery?

Please quote a me a verse from any Scripture or book you believed in that says:
1. Don't take slaves

2. Free all slaves?

As for Africa, the European Slave Legacy is still there for us to see till date.

Read up on how they conquered the South of Africa

I ask you, what exactly are the Arabs doing with these slaves? Is it to water the Deserts? It is the Europeans that needed Manpower more hence they took more and when they saw it evil. They decided to stop.

It is not out of anything for they were christians the while they took these slaves.

The Queen/King of England who is the Head of the Anglican Church owns and traded in Slaves.

You are right all races and tribes had slaves. All nations conquered and overpowered their neighbors but the Christian nations stopped slavery.

Lukuluku69:
By this logic of yours, why are you whining about the Muslims? And a note of Correction, Muslims don't go about taking stuff yes they tax you to maintain the State but not wholesale looting and pillaging and plundering the way the European Christians did when.they invaded Africa, India, South America and other Nations of the world.

If you look critically, you see the difference.

What are you saying, did they not take the lives of the people the conquered. And they took tax to maintain their state and empire from those they conquered. I don't understand your point in saying they did not take stuff. They took lives and they levied tax. And of course slaves.

Lukuluku69:
By this logic of yours, why are you whining about the Muslims? And a note of Correction, Muslims don't go about taking stuff yes they tax you to maintain the State but not wholesale looting and pillaging and plundering the way the European Christians did when.they invaded Africa, India, South America and other Nations of the world.

If you look critically, you see the difference.

Read read read
The Muslims conquest in India.
The Muslim conquest in Constantinople
The Muslim conquest in Persia
The Muslim conquest in Rome
The Muslim conquest in Spain.
I do not blame or hate the Muslims for these, it was the way of the world at the time. But times have change only the Muslims refuse to change.

Lukuluku69:
Well, if the Igbo want to be President of Nigeria, there is a whole lot of stuff they need to do

Nigeria is a Democracy meaning the Party with the Highest Vote counts wins. Igbo Votes alone can not install an Igbo Man as the president. So, they gat to appeal to others for support.

I am apolitical. I don't care who rules Nigeria. I have my reasons. But for Igbo to become Nigeria President,

1.they have to believe in Nigeria

2. Stop abusing everyone else and arrogating wisdom only to your tribe.

3. Work with others and earn their trust.

4. Respect and tolerate other aside your own people.

You claimed all the positives in the last 200 years was as a result of Christian minds? Lol.

Have you ever heard of the word " Free Thinkers" Another thing is, once you see an European name to a cause or a system, the average Christian mind in Africa think: that is a Christian. In actual fact, they are not Christians to Atheists or Free Thinkers who have seen what Religion has done and want to correct it.

Like I said, in the Kingdom of God, you must worship him. No two ways!

That is why God commanded Moses to kill those that made and took part in the worship of the golden calf.

My point is, it's easier for a black man to rule America than an Igbo man to rule Nigeria, not as if the other tribes ruling Nigeria are doing a good job.
If you insist that the religious freedom is wrong then it would be wrong of you to blame Boko Haram or any other Muslim terrorist. They only want what you want, to enforce your religion.

diadem10:
Says an Ipob miscreant. Tinubu is indigenous to Lagos. He's never come out to say he's from any other state apart from Lagos. So what are you saying exactly? Na ment?

You are dreaming. I thought you say it is the Obedients spreading the hate. Hypocrites.

Lukuluku69:
Bros, you must have read about Artifacts being returned to Africa, South America and India. And many other Lands this Europeans waged war of Colonies on. The British, the Dutch, the Portuguese and the Spaniards. They went it, the Military killing and pillaging. Everything they laid their hands on, they take to Europe and are closely followed by their Missionaries who preached docility to the conquered people.

Have you ever read that an Artifact or any artifacts find their way to the Muslims Lands? You won't find any because to the Muslims these are junks. The Muslims Army if at all they enter any Land, always invite the conquered people to their faith and start trading.

Just so you know, the Muslims got to the Indian Subcontinent before the Europeans yet it is the Europeans who were accused of stealing. If the Muslims stole, nothing will be left for the Europeans to steal.

And ALL systems, Armies, government collect taxes.

What the British did, the Arabs did, the Persians did, the ottoman did and even the Fulani Muslims still do up till today.

Lukuluku69:
You keep mixing it up and drawing parallels where the is non.

Let me explain. The Muslim Army that issued out from Arabia from the reign of the First Caliph were mostly Arabians. As other Nations became Muslims, the inhabitants of such Nation or tribes continue the message. That is why you would see that it was the Malians who brought Islam to Yorubakand thru Trade

All Nations took Slaves from conquered people and no the Christians never ended it as a matter of fact they added another dimension to it. They came to Africa looking for Manpower to Farm the New Found Lands in America. So, they came solely to capture men and women for that purpose.

The Arabs leave in the Desert nothing to farm. Camel drivers and goat herders they were back then. It was the the Europeans that started the wholesale trading of Humans to work on an industrial scale and estimate have that over 200millions souls were taken.

The British never left Australia, they are in New Zealand and the Americas still have s significant numbers of Europeans who never left and are still ruling this Lands. So, stop that lies you have been made to believe and the lies you are repeating.

The Arabs started African slavery before the Europeans and they did not end it untill the Europeans forced them to.
Slavery ended in America in the 1860s but it went on officially for a 100 more years in the Arab world.

Lukuluku69:
In the Kingdom of God, if you believe there is one or going to be one. Freedom of worship is not allowed therein.

As for Boko Haram, I want the Nigerian Govt to crush them. They don't represent Islam or Muslims


And don't bring that justifying or "simplified" BS on me. You are a Christian that believe God inspires a d commmand Moses, David, Solomon. You will do well and read up the stories of those mentioned in the Bible before you come for me

What is the difference between you a Boko Haram. If you don't allow people's freedom it means you would kill anyone who thinks differently from you. You guys are by a mile the most intolerant religion on earth.

Lukuluku69:
To answer you question: how are the Muslims better than the British. Let me give you a story which you hold true and justify because it suits your Faith and agenda.

According to the Bible, Abraham came from Ur in Chaldea which is in present day Iraq. He went to Cannan. There he married and had Issac who beget Jacob. Jacob in turn had 12 kids. Now, God said he will give the tribes that came from these 12 kids the Lands that their great grandfather migrated to. This Land was taken over by these 12 kids children not peacefully oo but with Wars. Massacres upon massacres.

You christians justify that because it suits a narrative and an agenda.

Now enter the Muslim whom you lots hated so much, same Abraham, his other son Ishmael, whose mother was from Egypt. A tribe that descends from him came and expel Europeans( Greeks and Roman Trinitarians) from Egypt: a land which includes the one promised this same Abraham .

Ever since, the Muslims have known no peace.

Do you see your hpocracy?

First, I don't justify killing and taking over land.
But I understand that it was the way of the world up to 1945. It had nothing to do with religion rather it was about human civilization.
The land of Turkey used to be Christian untill the Muslim forces took it over. The Muslims invaded spain and much of eastern Europe.
It was not untill world war 1 that the ottoman empire lost Palestine.
I don't blame or hate the Muslim or do I blame or hate the white Colonia masters. It was the way of the world up till 1945.
Prior to 1945, once you have a stronger army, you were free to invade as much as you could.
But I find you hypocritical when you blame the Europeans but praise the Muslims for the very same actions.
I gave you the example of Muslims emirs still ruling their colonies in Kano, Borno and illorin till date. Where these land also promised them by God?

Lukuluku69:
Very true. It was to expel Trinitarians from Abraham's promised Land. Read Genesis. The Land between Euphrates and Nile is for Abraham's descendants. Abraham was never a Trinitarian. The same way the Children of Israel expelled the Cannanites, the Jebusites and every other Polytheistics tribes back then

You just simplified killing in the name of religion. This is exactly what Boko Haram and other Islamic terrorist do. They use religion as a reason to kill.

Lukuluku69:
Seems you don't know the modus operandi of these your European Master. Sometime, it is the Missionary who enter your Land. On getting here, he will appear "meek, like a sheep" once he studies the terrain: the people, their resources etc, he will send words back home and pronto the the Military show face. That is if there is anything to plunder if not, the Missionary stays. Feedings off the Land and raising a band of docile people who should not interfere or resist the European if need be

And sometimes, it is the Military you see and after the plunder, enters the Missionaries to placate, indoctrinates the subdued people.

Let me give you an example Dr. Martin Luther King and Malcolm X.

One was dreaming while awake to the reality and condition of his people and the other ready and willing to fight the system that oppress his people.

Christian Doctrine raising Docile people in face of oppression while the other ready and willing to change things the three ways as taught by Islam. Reject it in your soul, speak against it and change it with your hand

You say a lot without proof or sighting a single example. You mentioned Martin Luther and Malcom X but you did not explain further.
Don't we see the fight of these men fruit in America? America had a 2 term black president. Meanwhile Nigeria can't have an Igbo president.
Again you are wrong about Christianity raising docile people.
Dr Martin Luther king was a Christian. Infact most of the civil rights movement in USA and South Africa was led by the church.
Slavery was fought by the church. The church at the time took a stand on slavery before the governments of the day.
Human rights and freedom of religion was put forth and fought for but reformers.
Infact the Muslim world still lacks freedom of worship in 2022.
Almost all positive change that has come to the world in the last 300 years was brought forth by Christians.

Saw this on Twitter. She was really happy.
Hope this baba is not waiting for her to ripe?

And if he is, isn't it still a million times better than life in the slumps?

diadem10:
Simple thing to comprehend for someone who has a brain.

Tinubu didn't rule you or your papa. Rather it's you folks flocking in droves to Tinubu's functional Lagos, instead of holding your uselesssss leaders accountable in the south east.


If you want to judge Tinubu, judge him by his legacies in Lagos which includes, lekki trade zone, BRT, Eko Atlantic, Lekki seaport, first telecom in Nigeria, millennium schools, LASTMA, enormous increase in Lagos revenue despite Obasanjo seizing Lagos allocation for several years etc


Your Peter Obi achieved absolute nothing in his own state. Let Peter Obi tell us what he did in Anambra in relative to how he's gonna improve the country. It's not by making noise and insulting everyone by his urchins.

Your Tinubu flocked from Osun to Lagos. Before he ever dreamt of becoming a governor, Igbos were doing business in Lagos and buying property.
It's clear that you are a kid and you are not aware with life before 1999.