₦airaland Forum

johnydon22:
Humans kill their babies too...Exactly thats what it is you just landed where i was heading all this while, All we have is highly evolved instinct or as i call it intellect and that is why we have above other animals... and that is why we know it is wrong to kill another human cus we wouldnt want another to kill us... You are just comparing human intellect and society to other animals just look around you..

lol you see now you're admitting that doing good because of fear of consequence is not selfish, and good you added humans kill their babies too (sad tho). just because you say it is wrong doesn't mean it is, why is it right to not kill and why is it wrong to kill. Ted bundy enjoyed killing (he is human) how would you incorporate something like this into your worldview where a person projects no sign of emotion or empathy.

dalaman:
If you kill another man it matters because his own will come after you and kill or harm you amd your own. If you go about killing each other you will exterminate each other. Please read about the native American tribes that almost exterminated each other because of how violent they were towards each other. It was so bad that the 5 rival tribes had to come together and put and end to it. They came up with laws never to fight each other but to settle their disputes through dialogue.our ability as humans to self reflect is what makes us different from other social animals.

good thing you said "exterminate". If they had, what does it matter?
If Germans had won the war and had took it upon themselves to kill out the less evolved races. so what's wrong with that? that's more land and more resources for the master Aryan race. you talk as if staying alive has a bigger picture to it or that the existence of humans on earth is of uttermost importance when everything will end shortly in few million years. one thing I got you to do though is admit that society is determines morality.

johnydon22:
And somehow the above post just concludes it.

Please i refer you to start from my previous posts and posts from other people on this thread, i see no more need going in unnecessary circles..

you are the one that doesn't get it. you claim there's no God and at the same time assert, morality is objective based on empathy.....most who think the same way you do at least admit if there's no God morality is subjective thus, no good or evil.

johnydon22:
lolzz i dont think you know much about animals do you?

Every animal have a basic sense of morality..

Elephants would never leave a wounded comrade behind, Monkeys are known to ostracize a member of the pack if its action goes against the whole pack... and so it goes on and on.

Compare their intellect with ours!

Oh for the eating of other animal thingie am sure you know about food chains and food web which man topples above all

mouse eat their babies, lions kill their cubs and so on. Animals have instincts, our understanding and interpretation of the world is what we project on them. If there's no God, then all you have is highly evolved instincts, if you're killed by another human, it doesn't matter because you're basically just dead

johnydon22:
Cultures influence greatly in the human society, Oh yes Nazis Believed it was, So did the jews when they were killing and dashing infants against rocks, So did the calabar people... But this does not change the fact that it is wrong and we all know it goes against empathy towards the victims.

The 10 commandments if that is your yardstick for measuring morality is greatly disappointing... I do not see where it said do not enslaved, Do not make wars etc... You and do not need to check the 10 commandments to see if it is ok to steal, even tho it is not in the 10 commandments you and i still find it wrong to enslave anybody.

The ugarit text from whence these commandments were hewn accommodates many more laws against other vices the 10 commandment didnt..
Still yet it doesnt change the fact that both are all works of humans.

your idea of morality is based on this ideal world, where all human mind (empathy) is in sync. Reality is, it is not so. if there's no mind prior to the human mind, then every mind formulates its morality. when you say something is wrong, you're implying something shouldn't have happened but on what basis, In the American declaration of independence from the Britain....... it states thus "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." If there's no God you're just another walking prey. like Darwin put it it'll be the survival of the fittest.

johnydon22:
According to you human life is only special because God made it, forgetting that this God also made the animals so it makes them special too which means you have no right what so ever to kill any.

Humans possess high intellect that is what drives our thinking, It is in our intellect that we derive the concept of empathy.

So thats how we know that killing our fellow human is wrong cus we wouldnt want any to kill us too.

(Was abraham right or wrong to be willing to sacrifice isaac?)
that is what religious good is all about, doing what you are told no matter what is right.

you are not getting the point. if we all evolved from a common ancestor why is it ok for humans to indulge in a deliciously cooked dead animals but wrong for humans to do so to other humans? why isn't there this sense of morality in the animal kingdom? there's no empathy, there's no good or evil from where you coming from.

johnydon22:
If you had read my post well you have seen where i stated Morality is a product of empathy, by taking the feelings of others into consideration in your deeds Nazi killing jews was certainly against empathy so how can it be moral in a universal scope? The ancient isrealites wiping entire cities, countries is not moral either and according to them yahweh told them to.


I think none needs being said more on this.. i think my point was clear enough

Now did you miss the part were i mentioned intellect? and am sure i never mentioned free will here i said Pure Will please dont change my words.

Call it whatever you deem fit.. you employ it or not is your choice
Nigeria is a nice big example of a religiously saturated society even with all the psychological fear and control utilized by religion, is still this... thanks for bringing that up.

that's the problem, you assume everyone think the same. which is not so again history has shown people came up with pretty crazy ideas for morality, you said goodness promotes well-being of a society, the Nazis believe that was the greater good, let bring it home, Nigeria in Calabar, they killed twins, they believed it was good didn't they? and so many other cultures around the world, the bible says we have a conscience we do know what is right but we don't always do it, the 10 comm. serves as an objective plum line cutting through all cultures to judge our actions against.

dalaman:
Can you show me any value or moral system that wasn't created by man? Please show me one moral system that was created by God alone and not by man. Show me a moral system that was created by God alone without man in the picture. How does God make human life meaningful? Demonstrate that claim please. How is life meaningless without God. And which God by the way. Is the life of the christian more meaningful than that of the Hindu? Can you show that to be true? What about the life of the atheist? Is the life of a muslim better than that of an atheist? Can you demonstrate that to be true? How does God makes people's lives meaningful here on earth? Show me one moral system that God alone created, tell me why God created it and when he created it alone without human input.

before I get myself entangled in all this questions. human life is no more meaningful than that of other animals if there's no God. the meat you eat is killed no one complains, why is it ok to kill every other animals but wrong for one human to kill another human? have you thought about it, is it because we are so special or what. If God created humans, then every one has innate value and worth, violation of that is a crime against the person and the creator, knowing this the violator will be judged for his/her actions.

all those other questions are irrelevant to the point where trying to ash out here.

johnydon22:
Good morning bro... Like i said in my post goodness is a product of empathy, Considering the feelings of others in your deeds... So good deeds can be said as a deed that coincides with your own good, the good of others and the collective good of the society.

we still haven't define what good represents. when Nazi were killing of Jews, it was good for them. from where you're coming from morality is subjective, everyone makes up what is right and good for them or their society. like I said history is a great source

I see no way such mundane thing like exams can be reconciled to the concept of goodness but yet i will answer. . . study is of no wide scope, everyone on their own and it is unfair to contrast this to the concept of good.
So go back to my post again and read it again.

those were examples rebutting the idea that being moral for the sake of not wanting to go to hell is selfish, the bible says the Fear of God who can destroy the body and cast the soul in to hell is the beginning of wisdom, the bible says perfect love casts out fear. meaning fear cautions, diligence brings understanding.

Like i have told someone before any action that is being induced on you by fear or any other factor is not born out pure will, True goodness stems from pure will, goodness should not be dependent on any fear of punishment cus if it those it means without that concept of punishment they will be no goodness.

how are you so sure we have free will? from a materialistic point of view, we are a product of evolution, our mind is a higher evolved apes mind, and it's all we got. we dance to the tune of our biological make up.

If you take the feelings of others and collective good of the society into consideration then you will be good towards all because you know it is right to be good.

wouldn't this be another way of wording love your neighbor as yourself? and don't you wish everyone sees it that way. Sadly in all of human history it has not been so

A look at human history will also inform you that humans have been good and bad to each other. . . None of us are born good or evil but we all have the instinct of good or evil, so we are all capable of great good and great evil it is the choices we make in our deeds that determines of it is right or wrong.

you and I know the latter was ans still is the most prevalent, Nigeria is a nice big example.

Liekiller:
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
From: http://www.evilbible.com/Top_Ten_List.htm

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

knowing the church history is not a requirement for salvation, these are things that can be read afterwards, a cynic atheist who has an obsession with the bible of course is going to know more than some Christians, but I'll bet you that the christian have a better interpretation than the atheist.

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

know one has to prove Christianity, it is a real institution, the question is if there's a God and if Christianity is the correct way to him.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

If I was going in the opposite direction warning you there's a robbery going on back there but you ignore and kept walking in the same direction if you get napped and robbed and or possibly shot, is it my fault?

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

they are laughable because when the primary ideas of these religions are tested against reality they fail. to be fair anything can be reduced to ridiculousness by taking the important info out. just like me saying, you copied and pasted laughable out of date points atheists use, when they can't think beyond their little bubble.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

common bruh, I don't see a point in the rebutting this

kunlenkirol:
Too much questions. Summarily, a religious person can be immoral while an atheist can be moral. Morality is d yardstick of measuring the goodness oR badness of an action. Being moral adds value to the beingness of a person. While immorality is an aberation. Since it is a deprivation of something good, it is termed to be evil. On Action, do good because it is your duty to do good. That is what Kant calls "duty for duty sake". You do good cos it is ur responsibility to do good not because you want to gain anything. Hasta la vista

from a human point of view an Atheist could be moral while a religious person might not, From God's perspective, none is righteous no not one. of value or importance is the "beingness" of a person? why is it a responsibility? why can you do anything you want with a piece of paper and not same with a paper currency? if you can answer these then, viola! you'll see the hole in your train of thought.

dalaman:
How and why is goodness determined only by God? demonstrate to me with clear examples what it means to be good only because it takes God to be good. Why can't a person be good without God? How is God good and what makes goodness to exist only because of God?

to admit there's goodness is a truth statement that incites an innate worth of humans, and by so doing, you imply we have a responsibility to ourselves and others to carry out what is morally good. Inanimate objects don't have this sense of responsibility so do animals with the exception of homo sapiens. If there's no God, we have no value anymore than a piece of rock on the ground, so whatever you do to forge ahead in life (not caring who you hurt while doing so) it doesn't matter, because the end justifies the means. If there's no God, what you do with your life from when you were born till your last breath is meaningless because our solar system is one giant dynamite waiting to detonate.

johnydon22:
Our morality comes from our humanity, by contrasting your feelings to that of others you will learn to be good towards all... The human nature is moral and good.

Our intellect guides our thinking and empathy guides our act... Morality do not depend on any book or creed. Those books too are also a product of humans and greatly influenced by their culture.
e.g- You do not need to rush and check in the bible or koran to check if stealing is good or bad, You know taking someone else's thing is not moral.

You do not need the bible or koran to tell you slavery and enslaving is bad even though both clearly never forbids it infact the two books endorsed it in a way.
So our morality stems from our humanity.. our intellect and empathy.

Like i have always tried to tell theists.. Goodness doesnt depend on reward or punishment.
If you are good because of the promise of heaven, you are only good because you want reward thereby you are only good for your own gain at the end.. We call it "Selfishness" and is that real goodness?

If you are good because of the threat of hell, you are only good because you fear hell therefore you are only good for you own gain at the end saving your own skin...its called "Selfishness" is that real goodness?

I that try to be good without expecting any reward or hoping to escape punishment and you that is good cus of reward or fear, Who really is moral?

Real goodness entails being good because you know it is right and want good to happen. cus you believe the earth and humans deserve goodness.

The idea of God was brought to make people not to accept responsible for their actions.
I am responsible for all my actions be it good or bad..

And this issue of forgiveness is that not a deceptive concept to rid people of their guilt?
Take for instance i stole from you, i regret my actions and come back to seek your forgiveness and return the item and you forgive thereby you already cleared your mind of it and it doesnt hurt anymore cus you already forgave me cus i came to you.

I stole from you, i regret my actions then i go to my room and mutter some prayers, come and out and say i am forgiven when you that i took your item is still hurting and doesnt even know i did it.

Which is forgiveness and which is moral?

We do not need forgiveness from any deity or gods we only need forgiveness from ourselves and one another..

Come and tender your own opinion on this

You don't have to believe in God to be "good". on this I sort of agree with you. but what is good? what is bad? and how do you tell this characteristics or actions apart?
is it selfish to study because of the fear of failing on an exam or working hard cuz of the fear of finding yourself at the bottom of the food chain?
is it selfish to not run a red light because you know if you do, there's a painfully large amount of fine you would have to pay?

are you absolutely sure that goodness is not dependent on the fear of punishment, that the person you violated or the society won't take actions against you when you've crossed the line?

a look at history is enough to inform you humans have not being very good to each other.

emusmith:
Nigeria Women cannot go back "materialistically". ( Emphasis Mine )

What you implied here is:

1. Women are materialistic- palpably.

2. They depend on what their guy is worth.. This is unlike one of your threads I read months ago about how Nigeria ladies need to start doing something with their lives other than just "depending" on their guy's substance.

I believe strongly "without misconstruing your points" that A lady can date a guy earning less than his ex. I believe so.

We are in Nigeria, young lady. , not in Beverly Hills or California.

If tomorrow something happens to his business, you would run away right? This might happen with a CAPTION like yours.

True love has "something", not everything to do with money.

Just that most Nigeria n ladies wanna be like Kourtney Kardarshian and Scott...

Make your own cash and love him with your will power of choice, please...Chris Rock ain't a Nigerian.


Just a suggestion.


About my points being petty...I dunno know what to say

Beverly hills is California or let me say it's a place in Cali.

Nigeria needs to start talking about population control, like this is really bad, and these stupid women. God three hundred of his seeds are running loose.

who the hell still use the term "half caste" in this age
proper term is 'mixed race' or biracial'.

Military personnel shouldn't have any kind of power inside the country, the police run things, any Army that even dares to resist arrest or instructions in alignment with the law should be arrested. This is what happens in a Sane society. In Nigeria every tom dick and Harry thinks he can do and undo because people don't know their right.

I just read that Muslims in the middle east are protesting the cartoon image of Mohammed printed by Charlie Hedbo. when innocent lives are being taken by those who claim to be extremist, those idiots are protesting over a cartoon, seeing that anyone with a bias prior to these recent attacks would see it and say look the majority of them care more about a fairy tale than real and present human lives. And this is why I personally think Islam is messed up. It is a fundamental issue. The disciples asked Jesus how they would know a false prophet? he gave a simple answer, "you shall know them by their FRUITS."

A country or state that does not generate revenue for the state is a failed state, this guy is going to retard the little progress Lagos has achieved up to this point. How is he going to recover the money that was used in carrying out the project? he is playing on your emotions.

SirShymex:
Lol, you sound homoerotic, and you need to come out of the closet already cos being on the DL is the worst thing you can ever do to yourself. However, I appreciate the fact that you subtly wear the gay-pride badge, with honour - I can't hate on that. Just as I think there has to be a certain form of control on the lifestyle, till they can prove beyond reasonable doubt that it's natural. Regardless, you got the message I was conveying, unlike the uncouth soulglo with cognitive dissonance (still got love for you soulglo, but watch ya mouth when you talk to me - you're rude).

Anyhoo, the only hyper-sensitive folks out there are homosexuals who scream "homophobic" at everyone who doesn't agree with them, and they're the persecuted ones. Straight people have never been persecuted.

Have fun!

oh you, aren't you a delightful person to be around......your perception of me through the internet is of high importance to me, in fact my day is going smoother than I thought, so I want to use this opportunity to thank you. I'm envious of your incredible superhuman power to sense my virtually determined "homoerotic sound". so like were you born with it? like is it genetic or epigenetics? which side of the family was it passed down from? is it contagious, cuz I would like 2 order of those pls

by the way you just got trolled, and you know it/why

SirShymex:
That wasn't my point. I know homosexuality has been happening since ancient times, and in ancient Greece, it was like pederasty, which was more of a class thing, with males of higher status - smashing males of lower status, to show how dominant they're (talked about this extensively in the past). However, since the existence of humanity, homosexuality has never been widely spread, as it's today - so you've to be scared. These days, everywhere you turn, there's always an homoerotic person. Evidently, you've to start asking questions.

Now, let's go back to the 80s, when homosexuality started becoming cool, in the modern era - and fast-forward it to now. And tell me that, with the way this lifestyle keeps taking over everything, in the next 20-30 years, homoerotic men wouldn't be walking down these streets chirpsing/harassing straight men. We'll get to that phase soon, and that's going to be very troubling. There are already cases everywhere of gay men raping straight men, and that's an unacceptable behaviour. Someone has to put a lid on this nonsense before these folks make straight men vulnerable, since we're following the natural order of biological existence. The homosexuals are coming, and you've to be very worried.

The funniest thing most folks don't even know is that: a lot of the most powerful folks in the world are either bisexual or homos. And they're the ones pushing this agenda, and the way the number of folks who're gays keep growing at an alarming rate defies logic - since no one is/was born gay. They're about to turn straight men into endangered species.

Also, I honestly don't get the nonsense about "live and let's live" when homos are like the new hyper sensitive Jews and the nauseating way of applying anti-semitism to everything - with useless talks of calling folks who don't agree with their lifestyle as homophobes/homophobic. If it's a free-world, then folks should be allowed to disagree with their lifestyle, just the same way they have a problem with the natural order of human existence. These folks need to shut their gobs, and focus on being booty bandits. Regardless, we need to be scared cos these folks are about to start dominating straight men.

glad to hear you are attracted to women by CHOICE, for me there's no choice to it when it comes to being attracted to the opposite sex, I just am. If gays do takeover like you predict, be ready to CHOOSE men ooo
Cuz honestly they might not get the nonsense about "live and let's live" when heteros are like the new hyper sensitive Jews and the nauseating way of applying anti-semitism to everything - with useless talks of calling folks who don't agree with their lifestyle as heterophobes/heterophobic

SirShymex:
Are you sure about that cos I saw an interview a few days ago, and apparently, about 30-40% of black men in US prison engage in homosexuality. And they all continue with that lifestyle once they get out of there. Even out here, I'd wager that 50% of all these white folks I work with are fruity. Then once you start looking at the societies everywhere - you'll see that there has been an alarming increment in the number of people turning gay. The only difference is that: most homoerotic folks these days don't look feminine like the traditional ones - they mostly look like normal people. The future is scary.

For Nigeria, with the number of soft metrosexuals the country keeps churning out - I won't be surprised if 30% of the folks are homosexuals on the DL.

Something has to be done about these folks, before homosexuality become the new black. The world has gone nuts!

something like what? there were gays in ancient times, in fact it was widely accepted in the Roman empire, fast forward to many years after, humans are still thriving in the billions and they are still around today, the only thing that could be done is genocide on gays.

Afrobasic:
For now.

The gay agenda is at full swing:
Parents now tell their kids it's okay to be gay
Gay porn now floods the front page on some porn websites (don't ask me how I know )

To most of us heterosexual adults, It's impossible for us to become gay. But for the younger generation... A different story entirely

Soon enough there'll be as much gay people as there are straight people.

I don't even know how to answer you, honestly this is sad. it was acceptable centuries ago, still most of the human population was heterosexual, even if you are right, humans won't live forever the universe has a doomsday.

Redoil:
thank you for the insult.

you're welcome, it was a well deserved insult.

Redoil:
When it comes to human race this people never waste time in disgracing us. When man is allow to have sex with man and woman are allow to have sex with woman legally then note the human race is coming to an end

you're an 1diot, they've been around for ages, the majority of human population is straight by a wide gap, It'll take more than few homosexuals to cause the extinction of the human race.

I'm glad they stopped, it has created more Jobs, and gas is really cheap, so in other words Bleep Nigeria and it's useless thieving archaic government.

If only latitude was the only determinant of climate, Jos is in Nigeria, and Nigeria is located close to the equator, but I have heard it does get a little chilly there, Morocco which is up North in the Mediterranean does gets chilly too, Israel experiences very similar climate. From my experience shepherds can't tend their flocks comfortably in that weather at night. Texas, even though it is really hot during the summers, temperature can drop to freezing during a severe winter, but averagely 60-30F is what they get. Also.

Denomination is not what's taking you to heaven.

Ask a question I know the answer to already, that way I can weed out the liar.

Ask a question I know the answer to coupled with the direction to the village, that I weed out the liar.

Sponsor her to go on a fuckacation for a week with any guy she wants.

Get it right, that Range Rover is not a Jeep. That is an SUV, a sport utility vechicle. Jeep is a name of a car maker just like Toyota, Honda, Mercedes and what not. Jeep ko Sheep ni