₦airaland Forum

Ramsey Nouah's Father is Lebanese not Israeli. Get it right.

If you like shift am, If u like no shift am na for your own good. Na America get time.

did I just read sexiest? maybe in your own locally manufactured fantasy world op, not this life!

that Fayose of a guy is a B1tch @ss fvck Niqqa I've heard stories about that dude, never liked him, his fvcking dirt hole runs 24/7 like a diseased digestive tract.

macof:
Really sad, I blame the Africans of the 17th/18th century tho. Looking at the Japanese and Chinese, they prevented any foreign religion that preached against their race and culture...Japan is known to have caught off all relationships with the world for the purpose of safeguarding their identity and pride. Today Japanese culture is celebrated and admired by the same caucasians, Japan is still very much traditional and have used their ancestral knowledge to develop themselves coupled with the knowledge gained from the West

Today frustration and inferiority complex cannot compel a Chinese to claim what wasn't Chinese.

What we need is to kick out foreign religion from our lands

the problem is not Religion, but you're right in the sense that historically religion were forced on cultures that were perceived as pagan. Humans are free to subscribe to anything they consider to be the truth without culture denying them that right and you know culture evolve. the Japanese were able to strike a good balance between protecting their culture and allowing Western influence, which helped them in developing their nation.

Fulaman198:
You do realise that in the Western world Arabs are referred to as "white" right?

With that said, there are many Arab groups that are indeed black...Yet you continue to speak rubbish

there's no western world agreed upon classification of Arabs. Here in the US on paper they are classified as white, but in reality they aren't white, many of them consider themselves brown like their neighbors (Persians, the pakis and what not), Some Egyptians do consider themselves black but on paper they have to check white. In the the Uk I think they are classified as other, and persians, pakis and indians are classified along with south east Asians as Asians whereas only South east asians are considered Asians in America.

black Arabs are descendants of slaves, or are descendant of the Africans who were Raided by Arabs in the 7th century.

Wallie:
I'm not commenting on the veracity of what you wrote but the allusion that "history classes" correctly convey historical facts. In your own lifetime, haven’t you seen history being distorted? What makes you think that those in power did not re-write the history in the textbooks used to teach us?

History classes do their best in informing the young about past human events and civilizations, it is a valid and valuable branch of knowledge people pay considerable amount to study. if something new is found, it is corrected. History can't be rewritten except there are no eye witness accounts.

Fulaman198:
You are speaking bull crap. Those who speak Afro-Asiatic languages were always at first black. Whether it was Hausa, Somali, Amharic, Arabic, Berber languages, Oromo, Tangale, etc. etc.

They didn't start off as white. Whites inherited the culture of the black Arabs, not the other way around. You speak utter nonsense.

Again stop spewing rubbish provide the historical evidence with credible sources.
And what cave do you live in to not know that the term white means European not Arab

the same delusion op is suffering from, is what many black Americans are suffering from. can you imagine, they believe they are the true Hebrews taking from Israel to captivity, those idiots skipped History classes. west African descent thinking they're linked to a culture hundreds of miles away on another continent it is laughable and equally sad.

Fulaman198:
Says who? That's a bunch of bull crap. The very first Arabs themselves were black. You must be white

says science, don't just come here with some bull, back it up with evidence. your claim is as true as saying black were the first English or native Americans.
This is a case of low esteem and insecurity where you are trying delude yourself into believing a false claim.

dalaman:
There is no flaw in my argument. My position simply states that morality is a human construct. It has nothing to do with God. We can use only Christians as an example. Many Christians the world over disagree and are in constant disagreement with each other on what moral laws or principles to uphold despite believing in one God. If morality stems from God then why the constant disagreement even among Christians?

just know the opposite what you believe is wrong is equally right if it subjective.

Fulaman198:
You are aware that the Ethiopians have a Jewish group of people known as the Falashas right? What if they are the original jews? Their practises are much older than any other Jewish group existing today.

In regards to Arabs, which Arabs? There are many black Arabs in Oman, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc. and those countries are truly Arab. Countries like Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, etc. don't possess "true" Arabs.

black Arabs are descendants of African slaves, did you learn anything on Global history in school?

this is what happen when people cut English classes in school, they distinguish between simple literal style of writing.
not everyone damn word is meant to be taken literal.
Abraham was from the city of Ur Mesopotamia, modern day Iraq.
the people in this part of the world are Semitic Caucasians. Africa is the only continent you'll find back people.
the only race that comes close to African blacks in skin color are the Australian aborigines (but they have straight hair). but scientific discovery has shown that white people are even more genetically closer and them.
long story short Jesus was not black not even close he was a middle eastern, his color doesn't matter

dalaman:
I am not making this point at all. My point is that morality is a human creation and that remains a fact. People create moral systems to enable them enjoy the safety and well being of their various societies. People also created Gods and religions to justify authorities. All these things are man made ideas and creations. That is my point.



I don't know how humans came about, but I do know that we have a brain that allows us to be empathetic towards others.



People created the justice system so that they can be enable to enjoy the safety and well being of their various societies. Without justice non of this can be attained because the society will be in disarray.



We need to avenge the killing of others so that the killer will know that he too can not get away with taking the life of others.



We live in a world were our morality has evolved so much that things are now better. Conflict actually used to be the other of the day. During the time of the bible slavery was accepted, genocide was the order of the day, land grab was acceptable. The Romans invaded Israel and took over their lands during the time of Jesus. Israel was under occupation then. The Jews were praying for a Messiah to come and save them from the Romans. Stronger countries were going around grabbing lands and territories unopposed. There was chaos. Over time people learned that slavery was wrong, land grab was wrong, they formed charters and ended it. No God or religion was used to end these things. No God was used when the international criminal court was established. Reason was what was used to establish it. If Joshua or Moses of the bible were alive today the would have been sent to the international court of justice and tried as a war criminals. Morality is what humans have thought themselves over the years. The bible and Koran says that gays should be killed. Now societies have used reason to show that there is nothing wrong with being gay. God has nothing to do with morality, it is a human creation that is why it varies from society to society. People learn and teach each other moral principles through the use of reason.

I'm tired of going over the same thing, I'll have to agree to disagree, but you need to look into philosophy, might help you see the flaw in your argument.

johnydon22:
Seriously dude all your questions above are so very deceptive...
You seem to want to separate empathy from humans..

I wont address of any of it cus it will bring about more senseless questions and keeps going... if you dont know anything else to reply the guy then free the case dont resort to asking baseless questions that doesnt even make sense..

great way to respond to a question, call it deceptive and move on.
it is a simple philosophical question. can you explain how empathy came about, if yes explain, if no admit you don't know, admit that your thoughts have not gone this far.
both of you guys do not have the slightest philosophical knowledge in this little things you try to attribute to evolution without any support and think you have made a point. A simple premise surrounding relative morality I couldn't get across to you guys.

frank317:
My friend stop trying to force yourself to reply even when you don't know what to say. Why are you choosing to play with word you don't even know the meaning?

What do you mean by we are not 'imperfect'? Is this a word game?

If your God creates us perfect in the first place why then did we fall?

My homework? Again what you mean by my homework is that I go read one religious book out of the many religious books out there.

So if a Muslim accuses me, just like you are doing, that I didn't do my homework because I didn't read the Koran what do you expect me to tell him?

my apologies, I meant so say we are not prefect not because God made us imperfect but because of our choices.
fall came when man used his free will in disobeying God, this lead to the separation between God and man. universe is made of destructible matter,and 2nd law of thermodynamics states that everything moves towards chaos, our body breaks down as we age, natural disasters and the biggest of all is the projected fate of our solar system. Bible says Heaven and earth shall pass away but God's word is ever intact.
If you feel you need to read every book to know the truth, then by all means, I've done my own research and my findings all point to a creator.

dalaman:
The Moral law giver that exist is man. This is true because there are different laws in different societies, that is the reality. If God is the only moral law giver then why are there different laws in different societies all through human societies? Please can you tell me why there are very different laws all through human history if there is only one moral law giver? People thought themselves that slavery is wrong over thousand years of their evolution history, it actually used to be right, no God thought humans that history was wrong, the bible it self advocated and encouraged slavery, it never condemned it. People were encouraged to sell their daughters into slavery in the bible. The knowledge that slavery was wrong never came from the bible because the bible encouraged it, it came as a result of years of moral evolution, people thought themselves and learned that slavery was wrong. Over time they learned to stop it. They labeled it as a bad thing to do, thought it other to stop taking each other against their will, they reasoned it out and saw that it was the best thing to do and they stopped enslaving each other. Our ability to self reflect and use our brains to empathize with each other helped us a lot in that regard.




As long as we are here we have to do things that will make us all live in peace and tranquility with each other. If some one kills another it matters because the people of that person that was murdered will like to take revenge. I gave you an example to the ancient tribe in the Americas that almost exterminated each other until they came together and thought each other to stop killing one another because they were tired of losing their loved ones. Revenge killing and dominating the other was part of their cultures. They realized it was affecting them negatively and stopped. As long as we are here, we have to find ways of minimizing harm to each other.

Even with God it doesn't matter how you live your life, what matters is what religion or sect of religion you belong to. Muslims believe all unbelievers will rot in hell, Christians believe the same as well. Hindus have their own beliefs that tells them that they alone will enjoy in the afterlife. It that is true then it also doesn't matter. Why should a christian be good in this life if Allah is true when he will only end up in hell in the after life? Why should a Muslim, a Taoist and an Hindu be good if Jesus is the only way to God and they will all end up in hell in the after life? You aren't producing valid arguments only empty rhetoric.

you seriously don't get it. I can't change your mind but..
I easily can make this more difficult for you by asking you to account for how matter went from being purely physical to metaphysical having emotions, empathy and all
and pls do me a favor by answering these questions
where did empathy come from (and pls don't say evolution)
where did the Concept of Justice came from?
why do we feel the need to avenge wrong doings? don't you think revenging a dead person is selfish and arrogant to think killing is wrong? or that by taking revenge you impose your moral view on the person who committed the murder? not only that, you have buy into the murderers idea of morality to make him "pay" for taking the life of one of your own, in which is people might also retaliate.

in a morally subjective world conflict would be the order of the day, in our world reality is there are absolute morals that cut across every culture. these morals stands regardless personal bias.

dalaman:
I keep saying that even with God everything you say has already been sanctioned. The genocide you talk about was sanctioned by God in the bible. All the Amalekietes and Canaanites were to be totally annihilated. It's there in the bible. Slavery was sanctioned by God in the bible. The bible contains a lot of immorality that God sanctioned and promoted. Genocide, racism, sexism, land grab you name it. Morality is what we humans invented and learned over the years. We are still refining it as we go along. God is not the basis for human morality, humans are, we only use God as an enforcing mechanism. That is obviously clear. You have not made any case for God as the basis of human morality, you just keep begging the question. Morality in the real world is not objective as such there is no universally accepted set of morality or moral principles.

It's like I can't get through to you. A moral law giver has to exist for morality to exist, if individual minds all make up what's moral, then there's no right or wrong, just PERSONAL BIAS, I prefer turkey, you prefer chicken (it is just what it is) no one is wrong no one is right. If morality is subjective, then you can't say slavery is wrong, if you say it is wrong then your acknowledging moral absolute, that there's a standard we have to follow when treating other humans, that humans shouldn't own other humans for financial gains when in fact there's no set guide.

another way you can look at it is, If we don't have innate value just another cosmic dust walking around justice is not real and a delusion......If someone kills another person then it doesn't matter, the reality of things is that our solar system is headed for doom anyways all the achievement of humanity from the start to end is gonna be wiped out, you can rip people off while you are alive so that you can have finest of things in live, and leave others dirt poor, both the rich douchebag and the poor are all ending up in the same place.

dalaman:
You keep making empty statements that you can not defend. With God slavery was sanctioned in the bible. Rapist were told to marry their victims in the bible. Parents were told to stone their disobedient children to death inside the bible. ISIS is presently spreading terror around in the name of God and divine command theory. Humans over the years have thought themselves to appreciate empathy and to think about others. We have a brain that enables us to do that. When I see a guy raping a lady I can empathize with her, knowing that he is taking her against her will and causing her pain in the process. That alone is enough reason for me to act of I can or call for help. Doesn't need God in anyway ,because with God in the bible rape was permitted.

again you don't know what you're talking about, go back to those verses and read in context.

since you don't get it I'm going to have to explain to you
If there's no God, the first living cell came about as a result of time and chance.
due to this simple theory, everything in the universe as we know is physical and tangible, no metaphysical.
knowing this can you point to an element on the periodic table with a feeling, emotion, an element that understands the concept of justice. cause in case you didn't know these are the physical properties our bodies are made of.
What I here you say is this --(we some how got here by a [cosmic accident], these elements came together and voila we have this awesome brain that can somehow grasp this metaphysical concepts but I don't fully understand the leap, so I'll just say empathy)
the scenario I gave you was one where morality was truly subjective! obviously in the real world it isn't although it appears to be, no one can live out moral subjectivity!
according to Darwin's theory of evolution nature selects only the species that are best fitted or able to survive the test of time (survival of the fittest). when Europeans started buying and taking slaves from Africa or when they came again the second time to colonize 99.9% of the continent, they had an advantage, guns and warships large organized infantry if they had wiped every African out there and then (if moral is truly subjective) there will be nothing wrong with. They were best suited to take us out.

wordsbase:
OKAY.... sorry ... you cannot lie

I can lie everyone can lie and we can all tell the truths, but this one is not a lie.

wordsbase:
Bros you sabi lie o...choi

what lie? go on the internet now and go and search for yourself

this is Chicago and Washington D.C in the early 1900s compare what we call cities presently today to these

looks a fvcking clown town, Nigerians are not even ashamed to call this a city none of the "cities" in Nigeria deserves to be called a city in the actual sense of 21 century.
that is Garbage, with all the money Nigeria gets from oil

New york in the early 1900's compared to Lagos 2015

frank317:
ok, i get it. was just pointing out the fallacy in the declaration.




Ok, morality is written in our hearts but we need to the ten commandments to guide us and remind us what is already in our heart?

we are not perfect i guess you need to ask your fellow christian @image to show you how your God made him perfect

Fallacy is a mistaken belief, I have my reasons why I don't care about the other gods you're systemically trying to impose on me simply because I'm a theist. if anything you're the one mistaken here.
we are not imperfect because God made us so, rather we are because of the fall in the garden of Eden, but obviously you don't know this because you've not done your homework.

dalaman:
We do have conscience as humans, that is what has enabled out race to developed our union and social interaction better.We are capable of learning what we see as well. So when we practice things and acts that are harmful, we could be thought to discard them if good reasons are provided to show that they are harmful to us. Rape for example started out as a good thing. Even the bible supported it. If you rape a woman you were to marry her according to the bible. People used to marry some of their women by stealing them from neighboring societies and taking them home in the ancient days. Over time people saw it as a bad thing and changed their ways. Rape became bad. Taking women as war booties was stopped something that was encouraged by God in the bible. Our morality today has undergone thousands of years of evolution. The God of the bible is not the one that makes laws for us. Our various legislative arms of government does that now in most societies . People did that in the past, they used God to scare people and make sure they abide by such laws. God has nothing to do with morality that is why Christians have never been shown and can never be shown to be more moral than non christians .

nothing you've said about the endorsement of slavery and rape are obviously ridiculous points used by agnostic/atheist all the time, so I'm not even gonna bother about those. If there's no God there's no good and evil in the objective sense. meaning that what you think is wrong is right to someone else since there are no instructions that guide the way should treat each other. The implication of this is, when a helpless person is getting assaulted in front of you, then you can't confront the rapist, but you can though say is, from my perspective I understand that's your morality but from my point of view is that it is wrong.

frank317:
What's this? You confidently come here and say you don't care about other gods, if you think that statement is wise why should anyone care about you own God?

You can't pick out one God whom a completely different culture/race/country than yours believe in out of the more than 1000 gods and expect to have a meaningful discussion.

You have no authority over any God, except the one in you head.

If you think the ten commandment is what guides our morality then you really have to rethink. Did the ancient Chinese or Africa read the ten commandment? How then did we find moral people among them?

How can a set of people, say Hindus have the moral code set by your creator and yet not know him?

I don't care about Gods, If you have a problem with me saying it then what is your beef with it?

Again, Morality is written on our hearts, because we are not perfect, the moral codes that each ancient came up with have been flawed
10 commandment serves as a cross-check guide for how we should and interact with fellow and God.

dalaman:
There is no universal concept of good and evil. There is concept of good and evil in every society. It isn't universally accepted because it is a creation of humans, and it depends on the culture that created it. Good and evil exist but they are not universally accepted. There are no universally accepted rules of engagement. They exist but they aren't universal. The US congress makes laws and people must abide by it. In Saudi Arabia the clerics also make laws and people must abide by them, while the US uses the government as an enforcing mechanism in Saudi Arabia God is used as an enforcing mechanism. Morality is a creation of humans that is why it varies from place to place and is constantly evolving. It was never created by any God. There are different Gods with different moral principles. Gods are only used as enforcing mechanism, humans created all the moral codes of conduct they chose to live by in their various societies. They change them when ever they see the need to do so. There are no moral absolutes in reality, morality is fluid. Even if we are to agree that God is the source of all moral principle then which God exactly? The ancient Romans didn't get their morality from the God of the bible, neither did the ancient Greeks, Egyptians, Chinese, Indians, Japanese, Mayans and Aztechs. These people built great civilizations that lasted thousands of years. The God of the bible had nothing to do with their moral foundation and principles.

I'll grant that subjective good and evil exist, Objectively it doesn't if what you're saying is true. I don't care about other gods, I'm gonna be giving based on the Judeo-Christian God. the bible confirms we have conscience, but we do violate what it tells us to do hence the provision of the 10 commandment tablets. there are actions that are frowned upon in every culture on the planet, murder, rape, stealing, cheating, lying, the civilization of these ancient cultures has nothing to with what we are discussing here by the way.

dalaman:
There is right and wrong according to how people define it. Muslims believe that the Sharia system of morality is the best system of morality because the system came from God himself. Majority of the people living in the world disagree. Christians believe that the moral principles written inside the bible is the best. Alot of people disagree as well. What does it mean to be good with God. You haven't demonstrated that to me. Morality is a human creation it has nothing to do with God. Gods are used only as an enforcing mechanism when human create their different moral codes of conduct. In advance societies government is the enforcing mechanism.

what you've just addressed isn't morality, what you just argued for is absolute Truth. back to morality, if morality is subjective, then you must agree to these premises.
for subjective morality to be true
then there must be no intelligent mind prior to the evolution of the human.
there are no set rules of engagement
so every human mind makes up it's own morality (which then could be shaped/influenced by societal ideals and conditions)
therefore there's no concept of good and evil.
to say good exist in this hypothetical world is to claim there's an arbitrary standard for rules of engagement (for this to be true, a God must exist)

johnydon22:
omfg... whats wrong with these guys comprehension tho :[...

Biko eeehn bros i am done with you ... thank you....

You see addressing this moniker again is still giving answers that i have already given and i am tired of it.

all through the course of our little dialogue, you've changed your position on this subject. your initial post said doing good because of fear of punishment is immoral, few comments ago you said, "you don't kill because of the fear of being killed" all I have being doing here is to make you see the absurdity in your view and how it doesn't apply to the real world. Empathy is not an answer to why something is immoral!

johnydon22:
The wrong in it is because it affects the other negatively...
The victim is hurting and that is what is wrong with it.

and what is wrong with doing stuff that affects others negatively if it affects you positively?
I'm pushing these questions to make you realize the flaw in your though

dalaman:
Why are we having problems in the world today if all of us agree on the same moral principles? Morality is subjective. Gay union is wrong in Nigeria but not wrong in most part of European Union for example. In America I can stand my ground and kill you if I feel threatened by your actions. In Nigeria it's even wrong for me as a civilian to own a gun. Women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabi while women are allowed to marry more tham one man in among some tribes living in the Amazon. Who told you that morality isn't subjective? Where is your evidence for that?

to save us the back and forth, if morality is subjective, there's no right and wrong, it is just what it is. Everyone believes their morality is the truth.

johnydon22:
And i dont see why you would want to affiliate empathy which i pointed out as the source of human morality to a deity, thats a very big fallacy.

I have mentioned it times without number, our empathy stems from our intellect.

I dont see why you cannot view empathy independent of any deity or gods.

By contrasting our feelings to others.

You wouldn't steal cus you know it would hurt the victim.

Honestly i feel no more need to be repeating this stuffs again... am done sir

No I wouldn't steal If I knew I would hurt the victim, meaning I might have been stolen from in the past to know it isn't beneficial. but If i did anyways what is wrong with not showing empathy?

dalaman:
That's what I have been saying all along. Society is what determines morality. Morality is a function and construction of human societies. According to the bible God told the Israeli to exterminate all the people whose land he gave them either for worshipping other Gods or for attacking his chosen people and sometimes just because they have inhibited the land he promised his chosen people. Many Christians try their very best to spin it around and claim it was a good action when it clearly wrong. They fail to see the bad in their own God's actions and deeds but are quick to point out that og their rival Muslim God. The winners always tell write history and try to justify their evil deeds on way or the other. America lied to the world and invade Iraq in 2003, many still belive that their invasion was justified because the history is being written by them.

how can you in the same paragraph claim morality is subjective and then still say an action is wrong. If believe eating rice is wrong and but you don't, none of us is neither right nor wrong. you can't a line crooked unless you have some idea of a straight line