₦airaland Forum

BascoVanVeli:
You have been sounding like you have his birth certificate tbh. I am just giving you logical explanations to wat u are bringing up. Fact! Some people lie in their profiles. Especially younger people.

Lying in his profile gives more credence to the view that he has lied about his age

goldfish80:
Biological variation in human development means that any assessment of age based on analysis of anatomical growth markers is only an estimate, and will inevitably contain a degree of error.

So will any scientific procedure....even DNA tests or HIV test. The question is not if there is a degree of error but how much uncertainty you are willing to accept.

A standard deviation of 0.9 for a mean of 18.3 yrs means that if the MRI says you are 18.3 years old, then there is about 70% chance that your age is between 17.4 yrs and 19.2, 15% chance that you are older than 19.2 and 15% chance that you are younger than 17.4. If only 15 out of every 100 people tested will be older than 19.2 in this case, I will say that the MRI is doing a darn good job. I don't think an 85% grade is poor for the purposes of stopping age cheats in cadet football!

goldfish80:
The current Australian Federal Police practice of using X-rays of the hand/wrist to assess the age of Indonesian crew members of boats bringing refugees to Australia is based on a method developed in the 1950s. The technique is outdated, inaccurate and raises ethical concerns.

If the crew members, who claim to be under 18, are found to be adults, they must face mandatory five-year jail terms under people smuggling laws.

Hand/wrist X-ray examination was designed as a tool to assess the general physical development of children rather than to determine chronological age, and its degree of error is unknown but likely to be quite large.

Biological variation in human development means that any assessment of age based on analysis of anatomical growth markers is only an estimate, and will inevitably contain a degree of error.

While there’s no foolproof way to determine the exact age of an individual without verified birth date documentation, there are better methods available.

The size of inherent error in determining age depends, in large measure, on the estimation methods used so it behoves the government to use better tools in what is a determination with very serious ramifications.

The inherent fallibility of hand/wrist x-rays
Hand/wrist X-rays rely on an anatomical atlas of standard hand/wrist X-rays taken of a group of 1000 middle-class American children from birth to nineteen years in the 1930s and 1940s

This atlas displays standard skeletal development at three-month intervals during the first year of life; six-month intervals from one to five years; and one year intervals thereafter, up to 19.

At no point does this technique claim to be able to determine chronological age; it was designed as a tool for health workers to better assess children’s skeletal development and overall growth.

Quite clearly, the major drawback when using this technique today is that individuals included in the atlas grew up on the other side of the world more than 60 years ago. The economic circumstances and general public health then aren’t comparable to what prevails now.

It’s clearly unlikely an American child in the 1940s developed at the same rate at which an Iraqi, Afghani, Indonesian or indeed an Australian child will develop today.

Even if the atlas accurately reflected current growth trends, it would still be of limited use in predicting chronological age.

The variability inherent in the model means that for a boy predicted to be 17 years old, there is a standard deviation of 15.4 months. This means that the boy’s age could have the possible range of 17 plus or minus two-and-a-half years. He could therefore, be aged anywhere from 14.5 to 19.5 years.

Plainly, if the question being asked is whether or not this person is an adult or still a minor, this method cannot possibly provide an accurate answer.

https://www.google.com.ng/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/bone-of-contention-can-wrist-x-rays-really-reveal-the-age-of-people-smugglers-2049

The above report was written by Richard Bassed, a forensic dentist and PhD student.
I urge you to do more research on this topic on your own. Don't be a one way army kind of guy

In other words, those who pass the test cannot be more than 20? If that is the case there is no cause for alarm then

The beef for England is so real. Which country gets to the semi-finals of a world cup and doesn't rave about it? Don't we still celebrate the Atlanta olympics triumph 22 years after, since it is our biggest football achievement? So the Germans, French, Spanish and Portuguese teams don't talk about their achievements? How many of us listen to commentaries or follow sporting reports in those languages to know that they don't hype their own

Abi na England fault say English na our official language ni? If we don't want their hype, why continue to listen to their commentaries or watch the EPL. Afterall there are better leagues to follow.....

TheGoodJoe:

Tell us how many tap ins you saw there. Unless you do not know what a tap in is.

I see no more than 3 "Tap-ins" unless goals such as the one Rojo scored against Nigeria are also considered tap-ins

goldfish80:
Sorry to say, but I like being candid. There's no where in world you can convince me that Iceland is better than Japan.
Please let's turn a leaf and stop these half truths, it won't get us anywhere. Look at one of the Iceland defenders, the young man worked in a Salt packing factory prior to the world cup, their number 8 is a bar attendant, this much was revealed by a comentator during their match against Argentina, about 4 others are medical doctors. Their goalkeeper Hannes is a professional film maker. I can go on and on...

I was ashamed being a Nigerian when people were going wild with jubilation after beating these guys. Beating these guys should be routine. Their famous results against England, Argentina and the likes is just the case of when a dog bites a man and when a man bites a dog...

Lastly, Colombia looks a better team and in better shape than Argentina in this tournament at least. Recently, Colombia defeated France in Paris, I will eagerly await the result of France Argentina to compare notes.

There's nothing in this article that suggests he is a part time footballer

Oasis007:


This Thread has turned to House of Comedy this Evening..... LMAO!

tglobal and forgiveness are really cracking me up....... FACT.

Tglobal came to the Defence of Forgiveness....... FACT.

Forgiveness faults two of many Points made by tgobal, and the Argument shift to tglobal vs forgiveness....... FACT.

I don laugh tire aswear!

lol..i didnt come to his defence .....FACT

I quoted Martz and cc'ed forgiveness do address their questions ...FACT

forgiveness:
It doesn't change the fact that Keshi directly received support from President Jonathan. FACT

Besides, NFF gave him free hands to choose his players going to the AFCON. FACT

Which Oyinbo coach past NFF never owe money?

Even Rohr self was owed money. FACT

My comparison was with Westerhoff, who is the only other coach to have achieved what Keshi achieved..... and he was never owed money FACT

No other coach comes close

The bolded shows he deserves all the credit for his success

forgiveness:
No! it was during the tournament. Fact.

Because the bench was jam packed with efulefu players while he destroyed the national football career of some players.

What saved his job was the victory over CIV. FACT

Herve Renhard was already approached to take over his job. FACT

It was his resignation stunt after the victory that got him on Jonathan's side. FACT

Despite Jonathan's support, he was still owed and his backroom staff fired against his wishes FACT

forgiveness:
Those two bolded points are factually not correct.

President Jonathan was behind Keshi. Fact

Are Mikel, Onazi, Echiejile, Ike Uche, Emenike, Ideye, Victor Moses etetera relatively unknown players? I don't think so. Fact

Jonathan's support came after AFCON title. FACT

if the bolded is true, why accuse him of improper player selection?

Martz101:
so because di mateo won the champions league, he becomes a good coach??

let's respect keshi, his dead

How did Di Mateo win the champions league? Negative football

How did Keshi win AFCON 2013? You know the answer

Still waiting for you to tell me why he is not the most successful Nigerian coach yet?

Martz101:
get your fact right, he was dropped after zambia match

Actually, you should be the one getting your facts right. We didnt lose to Zambia. and he started the next match against Ethiopia

Martz101:
that's a hall mark of a bad manager, you don't come out after losing and say to the media that one player didn't play to instruction.

you think all players have been playing to Rohr instructions??

Keshi wasn't losing when he said it. No general will go to battle with an insurbodinate soldier, no matter how good they are

Martz101:
he rebuild the national team??

Only two coaches in the in the history of Nigerian football have won both the nations cup and taken us to the second round of the world cup FACT (as forgiveness will say)

One took five years to achieve the feat, the other took 2. FACT

One had the support of the 2nd citizen of the land, the other achieved his feat despite limited support from his employers,sometimes without pay. FACT!

One did it with the best African players on Europe, the other did it with relatively unknown players (definitely not the best in Africa and not the best in Nigeria as you are quick to point out). FACT!

Which one of the two was the better coach? EOD

Please tell us why this coach should not be revered and give us the names of those who have achieved more for the national team with the same resources at their disposal? FACT

cc:forgiveness

komekn:
All of them are far higher in rating and ability than Nwakali, by the way i have talked to all of them and the willingness to play for Nigeria is not in question but our approach is.

I could bring in a lot more but just those for now, but that's not my focus but rather the system of selection that enthrones subjective favoritism over objective proven performance.

In reality Tega, Sei and Ovie are way far ahead they are not just future prospects but current top performers, they have all played a few games for their parent teams in the EPL a feat that is very far away if not near impossible for Nwakali in Arsenal as it stands.

The Eredivisie is rated 14th in Europe by UEFA it would therefore not be without credence to rate the Eerste Divisie as way below the Championship more on par with National conference and or league 2.

In reality we can look at players in the lower leagues to make comparison who i consider much better.

Eberechi Eze - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5662421/QPR-striker-Eberechi-Eze-worth-keeping-eye-spring-life-instant.html


The issue is not future prospects that is for the U17 at age 20 you are not proving prospects you are showing it , something Nwakali has failed to do at club level. Dismissing Aluko is to miss the point we are looking at players irrespective of age who can be prospective players for the SE that can bring quality. In this regard is Nwakali currently better than Hope Akpan ? he is playing at far higher level and getting recognition No he is not.

Our quality bar has dropped and so we can now look at outstanding talents in lower leagues because we have limited quality players as it stands.

Finally , you call Nwakali best future prospect , but you base it on ABSOLUTELY NOTHING just sentiment, state his stats, present continuous that make him a future prospect.

In my last two posts i gave you countless examples of supposed future prospects in English football that TOTALLY FLOPPED, that cost way more money than Nwakali, you have chosen to completely ignore these substantiated facts. Instead you are making irreverent comments without substance, just sentiment to buttress your position.

Why not humble yourself and learn and become enlightened.

Are you suggesting that Tega, Ojo, Ovie et al would have been eligible to represent Nigeria in the match against Athletico?

@Bolded: what is different with the approach used in securing Aina, Ebuehi, Ekong, Balogun etc. Was that also the reason why Tammy turned down Pinnick's approach?

forgiveness:
Hahahahahahahahaha! There is an adage that says in the absence of a cat, the house becomes rat's house.

Oga! You can pass your message sensibly without telling the whole World you are YORUBA. Even if you are Sango or Alaafin of Oyo, it doesn't portray you as an intectuall or an unbiased empire but rather as one who is trying to garner supporters or approval for justification meant for self appraisal going by this ya statement that that lacks merits and facts.

Now, that is by the way. Next

At least that will keep you from accusing him of liking Kelechi because "na my broda". One less accusation in your armory. No?

tbaba1234:
Enough with the achievement measuring contest. Whatever you think, you have done in your life, several people have done more. You will find people who have done far more with their lives on this thread and do not even mention the half of it. This thread is for football and not for bragging about your academic or professional achievements.

Humility and respect for each other goes a long way and will help you build lifetime connections. You could need each other someday in the future, it is a small world. Please, sheath your swords. We all view life from different prisms. Respecting each others viewpoints regardless of how you feel about it, is important.

Couldn't have said this any better!

TheSuperNerd:
I quoted Sir TheGoodJoe.... and used a meme that addressed the haters. Or are you one of them?

Maybe if nacho was your brother, you will understand why I find this comment of Komekn so downright irritating and a big slap on the so called analyst he is.

I hate liars and pretenders. I grew up loathing personalities of such negative traits. They corrupt and infect vulnerable minds around them. They are part of the reason the world still sees itself in its sorry mediocre state.

@TheSuperNerd

Not cool at all. You have always being able to pass across your views intelligently without resorting to personal attacks. Deriding his claim to be an analyst (if he ever claimed to be one!) is below the belt and doesn't make your argument superior or stop him from being who he is. We all contribute to this thread in one way or another. I learn a lot from him just as I do from you. That Austrian economists have a different perspective to Classical economists doesn't make one theory less valid than the other. A parent pushes his children by being critical another achieves it by being encouraging. They both can achieve success with their ways and one shouldn't accuse the other of nor loving their child.

The world is in a sorry state, not because people lie or pretend (it's a fundamental human flaw and the best of men do that). What the world needs (especially Africa) is a discourse around issues and not a deflective attack on personalities when we differ.

Mind Blown!

forgiveness:
However, if You assume Kayode is my brother because he is YORUBA and you think you are superior to that particular tribe. Girl, you must be an ignoramus.

This is a new low for you forgiveness; uncalled for; a sharp contrast to your methods of argument and more importantly, not in line with the spirit of the thread.

@safarigirl, this is a bait, please don't take a bite!

krattoss:
I get it...u hate the dude...

so caf listing him in every qualifying team of every match 're fools..

him been in team of the tournament is a fluke..

hatred is not good..it creates a loophole in the heart and mind where u won't see any good of the person u hating..

That you don't think that a player is exceptional doesn't equate to hatred for that player. This ad-hominem reaction to people who hold different opinions based on their own assessment doesn't make your proposition superior, it only shifts focus from the argument.

If you think he is wrong, state the reasons why. "u hate the dude" doesn't address the points he raised

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joseph1013:

Make una vote na. Abeg una want make dem beg una?

Oya, go vote

cc: AIG07, Isahalbash, Safarigirl, Joebie, Kog45, Goldfish80, daveP, kennysville, realpoacher, tbaba1234, komekn, Mujtahida, certitude, humility017, forgiveness, enomakos, TheGoodjoe, Mikael2, petrobros, Bascovanveli, TheSuperNerd, chrisoblog, loogan, do4luv14, icon79, maidaboi, terzurum5, Okpekyandega, Icon4s, TheSuperNerd, lakesidepapa, goldfish80, Xzbit91, lexyman, Humility017, ChrisKels, bigblangston, goke7, Chrismario, Daninya11, shawwal1, ganiyat2adeyeri, yemyke001, edi287, krattoss, eseose9, oasis007, jihday, tglobal, jars etc.

Ignore if you've already voted.

How is voting done on Nairaland? Can you please post a link to this?

Thanks

@TheSuperNerd, good to have you back

Happy New Year to everyone

[quote author=tglobal post=63757860]Forgiveness, Wikipedia actually gives these guys more credit than they performed. This I can tell you for a fact
1. Rufai was clubless in USA 94 (GA Eagles fired him during AFCON)
2. Iroha was a bench warmer at Vitesse (Having said that I still think he was the best left back we ever had further buttressing the point that club pedigree is not the ultimate determinant of quality)
3. Siasia had it tough in Nantes as there was a certain Japhet N'doram from Chad who kept him on the bench

The only exception will be Chidi Nwanu who at some point was the best Libero in Belgium


Modified:

If we are to rate these players solely by their club performances and appearances prior to the tournaments as YOU ARE PRONE TO SUGGEST, then we will arrive at the following ridiculous conclusion:

1. Akpeyi >> Rufai (Afterall, Rufai was clubless!)
2. Shehu, Aina, Idowu, Ebuehi >> Iroha and Eguavoen (The current fullbacks enjoy a lot of game time)
3. Onyekuru ahead of Amunike etc.

Interesting debate on which leagues where considered elite in the 90's, with a view to determining if the performances of SE players in that era are comparable to what we have today. While I lean towards the perspective that the current crop of players we have compare with the '94 set in terms of achievements and international recognition, I see how forgiveness, goldfish et al could think otherwise.

I do however think that we can have an objective assessment of this debate if we overcome the drive to want to prove the superiority of our arguments AT ALL COST. If we can get this right, we will be able to come to a close evaluation of where we stand when ranking the generations of SE players. It will also help to burst myths and separate facts from fiction. One approach will be to consider which leagues and club sides were considered ELITE in the years leading to the World Cup, without consideration of whether or not Nigeria had representatives in these leagues. If we can come up with a list of say top 10 European clubs or top 4 leagues, we can then proceed to consider the Nigerian angle.

The following considerations (in my view) will help make this assessment:
- Which clubs won the top competitions (UEFA, Cup Winners Cup, European Cup) 4-5 years prior (1990-1994)
- Where were the top players of that era plying their trade? (World and European players of the year will fall into this category)
- Where did the best players and best performers of the top teams in USA'94 play their club football?
- Which leagues/ club sides did the top performers in USA'94 move to?

Answers to the above questions should be straightforward and easy to come by and should be pointers to which leagues were considered the best for that period. While these considerations may not be universally applicable to determine the best leagues, they are however a good place to start since I expect them to be something we can agree on.

Late 2002 in memory of 1000+ people who lost their lives in a ferry disaster in Senegal (https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2002/10/sene-o02.html). We presented an home based team against Senegal's 'A' team basking in the aftermath of a successful world cup

Catalonia vs Nigeria (5-0)

Check out the 5th goal at 5:19. Helps to understand why Opara wasn't the fans favorite:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gOs1wIdAsE

Germany vs Nigeria:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1IGYuwdzoU

Icon4s:
The goal keeping was atrocious. Still trying to recall that guy that kept in that 2nd half against Holland.

Awful.

It was Willy Opara

Didn't have time to comment earlier, but I was surprised when folks insinuated that he was overlooked in the national team.

Willy was actually the second choice keeper in France 98 and took part in two friendlies prior to the tournament: He was at the LG cup and played the second half friendly games against Germany and Holland. However, he never inspired confidence in the fans - not unsimilar with Daniel Akpeyi.

Icon4s:
Hahaha. The whole team had a bad day not just Eguavoen.

Jerome Shakponke first played in a 2-2 draw against Jamaica earlier in the year or so.
He put up a good performance but Bora kept faith with Mobi.

TheGoodJoe is right. Jero made the 22-man list as the first choice RB while Mobi was dropped. Mobi only came back to the squad after the injury to Jero in the match against Holland. We were doing well until he was taken out but his substitute Eguavoen's performance was so bad in the match, that he had to be replaced by Godwin Opara in the same match. That was the first time i ever saw a substitute being substituted

@Certitude, @TheGoodJoe,

Please accept my condolences for your loss. May you both achieve far much more than the hope your fathers had for you, worked and made sacrifices for!