₦airaland Forum

DLifeless1:
You see, he didn't die to make us independent right?
The counselor he promised to send me on the ascension day, who will reveal the truth, which will set us free, my freedom comes from that truth and the conviction that all churches and denominations man made adulterated, selfish and greed inflicted chambers,
I want to ask you in all honesty, between redeem, catholic, Anglican, cherubim and choosen, which one is your own conviction is telling you is right with their mode of spirituality?

We are still on that conviction arising from the Holy spirit Jesus Christ sent. Except you are saying I should silence the conviction and do as others are doing?

The Holy Spirit's conviction will never go beyond what is written in Scripture.
Everything He speaks or brings to our hearts is always in alignment with the Word of God.
As Jesus said in John 14:26,

“The Holy Spirit… will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.”

So if someone is hearing something outside or contrary to what Scripture teaches, it’s important to pause—because that’s not the Holy Spirit's voice.

Now, regarding fellowship and church:
The Holy Spirit will never convict you to forsake the gathering of believers.
Instead, He will guide you to the right gathering—one where the Word of God is honored, Christ is exalted, and love is genuine.

In response to your question about which denomination my conviction points to as right, based on their mode of spirituality...

To be honest, I haven’t attended other denominations apart from Redeemed. But for me, wherever the true Word of God is preached—that’s where I choose to worship. The moment I visit a church and what I hear doesn't align with the Word of God, I quietly step away because the foundation must be the Word of God, not just tradition or popularity.

So it’s not about being in a certain building or denomination.
It’s about walking with God, being led by His Spirit, and being grounded in truth.
Let the Word of God be your filter—and let the Spirit lead you to where your growth, service, and fellowship will be sincere and fruitful.

MaxInDHouse:
I must tell you this even though you may find it difficult to understand for now!

You have the heart of Christ's sheep but there is an ongoing problem in the world today:

The love most people have for pure worship has grown cold due to increase of lawlessness in religious centers. Matthew 24:12

What you are saying shows you belong to Jesus' flock of sheep who are ever ready to endure no matter what happens {Matthew 24:13} there is a global spiritual family where Jesus' sheep are gathered in this time it's where we worship in spirit and truth {John 4:24} you can't find this mindset elsewhere except among Jehovah's Witnesses.

That's why most people keeps speaking against this organization because they wonder why all others are so ashamed of mentioning the name of their place of worship but Jehovah's Witnesses are ever proud to declare their stand for pure worship in the congregation of the true God.

Don't be surprised that most of those arguing with you want to worship with their fellow believers but they are tired of all the atrocities committed by their pastors all in the name of prosperity!

Baba thank you for your heartfelt words. Truly, you speak with the tone of someone who desires what is pure, spiritual, and pleasing to God—and that's deeply admirable.

May we all be among those who hear His voice—and follow wherever He leads.

achorladey:
Now you are talking.

Does fellowship includes how you work and encourage the people around you at your place of work?

Fellowship in the biblical sense isn't limited to singing songs or attending Bible studies. It includes how you live out your faith with others in everyday life—especially in how you:

1. Encourage others toward what is good and right,
2. Support people in their challenges,
3. Speak truth with love and integrity,
3. Demonstrate Christ through your attitude, work ethic, and compassion.

Colossians 3:23 — “Whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men.”

Hebrews 10:24 — “Let us consider how to stir one another up to love and good works.”

So yes, how you work and interact with people at your workplace, when done as unto Christ is part of your spiritual witness and can even be genuine fellowship when it flows from your walk with God and touches others.

However, it’s important to note:
That kind of interaction complements Christian fellowship—it doesn’t replace intentional connection with other believers.

achorladey:
Not restricted to going to building at certain date time, day and place right?

If I consistently avoid any form of gathering—whether in a house, under a tree, online, or in a room with two or three believers—then it's not about buildings anymore.
It becomes a question of whether I truly value the Body of Christ.

The early church met in homes, public spaces, temples, wherever they could—but they met.
They didn’t restrict God to a place—but they didn’t isolate either.

It’s not about being in a building; it’s about being in fellowship—intentionally, consistently, and humbly.


That’s the heart of it.

achorladey:
Baba abandon this your legalism kind of thinking.


Jesus said when two or three are gathered in my name is not a commandment. It is just a statement of fact of what will happen to his followers.


Paul stated..... Do not forsake the gathering. This is not a commandment too. It is just an advise. Nowhere in those account made it a law or commandment to must attend a church.

Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them

Jesus replied, “All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them.

Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

This isn't about legalism—let me explain what might be misunderstood:


1. “Where two or three gather” — is more than a casual statement

It reveals the DNA of Christian life: we were meant to gather, not scatter.

Jesus wasn’t prescribing a law, true.
But He was describing the normal, spiritual reality of His followers:
They will come together, and He will be among them.
Christianity was never meant to be private-only.

2. “Do not forsake the gathering” — isn’t just advice

Hebrews 10:25 is written in the context of people drifting away from faith under pressure.

It says:

“Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some…”
It continues:
“For if we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth…” (v.26)

The warning is clear: isolation weakens the believer.
So while it may not sound like a “thou shalt” command, it's a serious exhortation tied to spiritual survival.

3. The early church gathered — not by law, but by love

No one forced them into meetings.
They gathered because they loved Christ and each other.

“They continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship...” (Acts 2:42)

It was a natural expression of a supernatural life.

4. Fellowship is more than physical—it’s relational and spiritual

You don’t have to go to a cathedral, or attend a denomination.
But if you say you love Christ and consistently avoid His people, something’s off.

How can you love the Head (Christ) and want nothing to do with His Body (the Church)?


Jesus saves us individually,
But He calls us to walk together—as one body, one Spirit, one faith.

achorladey:
Your YES means going to Church does not equate being a child of God.

Leave but one side. Once you add but legalisms don enter. There is no law regarding how to be a child of God. No one single verse made it a law regarding how to be child of God.

Your scope of fellowship should not be defined as what is done in a particular building on a set day, time and place. That's why you see sheep on Sunday and see wolves at work on Monday because being devoted and in fellowship with God is restricted to that building they go to on defined days, date and time.

Your fellowship should start with the saying whatever you do, do as to God not to men. When you understand the length and breadth of that you will know for example, those you work with at work when you encourage them to do what is good and fine is fellowship with God.

Biblical fellowship is not just “you and God.”
It’s you, God, and others—sharpening, encouraging, correcting, and growing together in truth and love.

If our “personal walk” isolates us completely from other believers, we may need to ask:
Is it humility keeping me apart—or hurt, pride, or convenience?

Dtruthspeaker:
Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Nathaniael, Mary are examples of people who walked with God a sololy

Even though they had personal walks, God always led them into covenant, family, or community:

Noah built the ark for his family, and through him God preserved all humanity.

Abraham was chosen to become a great nation and be a blessing to all families (Genesis 12:2–3).

Isaac and Jacob both continued the covenant lineage—their faith affected generations.

Mary didn’t just carry Christ alone—she was part of a community of believers, and stayed with the disciples (Acts 1:14).

Nathanael (John 1:45–51) immediately became part of the group of disciples following Jesus.

Their personal walk with God never isolated them from God's people,
it positioned them to play a part in God’s bigger covenant story.

achorladey:
Do you see people or adherents of particular Christian denomination who go to church everyday and today and you can hardly pick anything child of God about them?

Yes or No?

Yes.

There are many who attend church regularly—daily even—and yet their lives do not reflect Christ. Church attendance alone does not equal spiritual transformation or true discipleship.

2 Timothy 3:5 – “Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof...”

Matthew 7:21 – “Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven...”

So yes, it's possible to go to church and not be a child of God.

But also—it's not an excuse to reject fellowship. The solution to fake Christianity isn’t isolation; it's real, Spirit-filled Christianity.

DLifeless1:
So I can't have my devotion in my bedroom, which part of my body being the temple of the Holy spirit do you need me to understand, so I need another house to feel the God who his spirit is already inside me?

You can encounter God in your bedroom.
But if your private devotion makes you reject the public family,
You might be protecting your comfort, not your convictions.

Jesus didn’t die to make us independent temples—He died to make us one body, knit together in love, growing in truth, and serving one another in humility.

PHIPEX:
So the very moment a man no longer has a church he becomes a sinner?

The level of religious extremism in some of you is alarming.

The Bible should now be rewritten to say " for God so loved world that he gave his only begotten son that WHOEVER HAS A CHURCH HAS ETERNAL LIFE".

Christian should belong to a church, but belonging to a church does not make any man a Christian. You can fans yourself in Afghanistan without a church and remain a fervent Christian. The ultimate is surrender your life to christ whether in a church in Lagos or living alone in Sahara desert.

You're right in pointing out that belonging to a church building or denomination does not save anyone. Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone—not by church attendance, religious rituals, or labels.

John 3:16 says “whosoever believes in Him”, not “whosoever registers in a church.”

So no, a man doesn’t instantly become a sinner just because he’s outside a church building. That would be legalism, not gospel.

However, there’s a difference between:

1. Being without a church by circumstance (e.g., living in a remote area, persecution, war)

2. Willfully neglecting fellowship out of pride, offense, or indifference

The issue is not "having a church" — it's being part of the Body.

The New Testament talks about living, connected fellowship:

Acts 2:42 – “They continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship...”

Hebrews 10:25 – “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together...”

1 Corinthians 12:27 – “Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.”

You can be a believer in a desert or prison and still be deeply connected to Christ. But when someone says “I don’t need church” while surrounded by Christian community, that often reveals a heart issue, not just geography.

ErebeOcoco:
The growing trend common in people these days is, I don't go to church but I am a spiritual person. Some would say I do good and I love God but I don't belong to any church.

Is it possible to love God, do good and not be affiliated to any denomination?

Religious experts, can a man claim to be a child of God without devotion?

No—one cannot truly claim to be a child of God while neglecting devotion, because being God's child redefines our priorities.

Devotion is dedication to Christ, expressed in worship, fellowship, obedience, and ongoing transformation.
Without devotion, Christianity becomes cultural, not covenantal.

Also, the Bible never presents Christianity as a solo walk. Jesus didn’t just save individuals—He created a Body, the Church.

Hebrews 10:25 talks about "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is..."
1 John 1:7 – "If we walk in the light... we have fellowship one with another..."
Acts 2:42 – "And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship..."

Moses said, “You shall not commit adultery.” That is, if you sleep with a woman who is not your wife, you have broken the law. But when Jesus came, He raised the standard. He said, “Whoever looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” (Matthew 5:28)

Likewise, the law said, “You shall not murder.” But Jesus said, “Whoever is angry with his brother without cause shall be in danger of judgment.” (Matthew 5:22) Jesus was revealing that sin doesn't begin with actions—it begins in the heart.

The Pharisees and Sadducees, the custodians of the law, prided themselves in outward obedience. Yet, Jesus confronted them, essentially saying, “You think you’ve kept the law? Even your thoughts and intentions condemn you.” This led them to the question, “Who then can be saved?” (Luke 18:26)

Then Jesus turned to the people and said, “Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:20) He wasn’t calling for more effort—He was pointing to a different kind of righteousness.

Jesus raised the bar to show that the law demands more than human effort can ever meet. But He didn’t stop there. He fulfilled the law (Matthew 5:17). He alone had the supply to meet the demand. He walked in perfect obedience, not only outwardly but inwardly, fulfilling all righteousness.

Then He took the law out of the way by fulfilling its requirements on our behalf. “Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.” (Romans 10:4) When Jesus died and rose again, He made His righteousness available to us as a gift—not earned, but received by faith.

So today, when you receive Jesus, you have fulfilled the law—not because of your effort, but because you have received the One who met its every demand. In Him, you are made righteous.

As the Scripture says: “You are complete in Him.” (Colossians 2:10)
And again: “By one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.” (Hebrews 10:14)

Therefore, the question is no longer, “Who can be saved?” but rather, “Will you receive the One who fulfilled it all for you?”

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus."
— Philippians 2:5 (KJV)

"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ..."
— 2 Corinthians 10:3–5 (KJV)

The mind is one of the most powerful instruments God has entrusted to us. It is the battleground of victory or defeat. Philippians 2:5 challenges us to adopt the very mindset of Jesus Christ—a mind rooted in humility, obedience, and divine purpose. This is not merely about thinking good thoughts but about allowing Christ’s values and vision to guide our every decision and response.

However, we are not without opposition. As Paul explains in 2 Corinthians 10:3–7, our true battle is spiritual, and the battleground is often in our minds. Thoughts, imaginations, prideful attitudes, and lies can become strongholds that limit our walk with God. But we are not powerless. We have weapons—divinely empowered—to pull down those strongholds, to cast down every thought that exalts itself above God's truth, and to bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.

When we truly embrace the mind of Christ, we become spiritually armed. We stop reacting from the flesh and begin responding from the Spirit. Our minds, renewed and surrendered, become channels for God’s wisdom, peace, and power. We gain clarity, discipline, and strength to walk victoriously in every area of life.

Your mind is your power—but only when it's aligned with Christ and actively guarded by His truth. Let Christ rule your thoughts. Let His Word reshape your mindset. And let your life reflect the victory that begins in your mind.

In the Christian life, one of the most powerful truths you can embrace is this: As a believer, you fight from victory—not for it. This statement shifts how you face sin, temptation, and your daily struggles. It reminds you that the battle has already been won by Christ, and your role is not to earn victory but to walk in the freedom He has already purchased.

Victory Was Won at the Cross

When Jesus died and rose again, He didn't just offer forgiveness—He declared war on the power of sin and won. At the cross, sin was condemned, and in the resurrection, new life was made available to all who believe. As Paul says in Romans 6:6, “our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.”

That means sin is no longer your master. Jesus is.

Your Identity Is Already Changed

You are not a sinner trying to be holy—you are a saint learning to live in holiness. You are not trying to earn God's love or approval—you already have it in Christ.

“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.” (2 Corinthians 5:17)


Your fight is not to become someone else; it's to live out who you already are.

The Fight Is Real—but You're Not Alone

Yes, the struggle with sin is real. Yes, temptation can be fierce. But you're not fighting from defeat—you’re resisting with resurrection power.

“The Spirit who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you.” (Romans 8:11)

That means the same power that conquered death is available to help you overcome whatever enslaves you.

Grace Empowers, Not Excuses

Fighting from victory doesn’t mean you ignore sin—it means you no longer fear it. You can confront it boldly, knowing your failure doesn’t define you and your success doesn’t earn you anything more from God. Grace forgives you and teaches you how to live free (Titus 2:11–12).

Stand in the Victory

So stand firm. Remind yourself daily that you’re not climbing a mountain to win God's approval—you’re walking in the footsteps of the One who already carried you to the top.

“Thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 15:57)

When you fall, don’t stay down. Get up in grace. You’re not fighting alone, and you’re not fighting for identity—you’re fighting from it.

Dtruthspeaker:
Precisely what you said in saying "continuity and fulfillment"

The bible is like a link Chain which capturing the beginning (past) to the Future now end.

EXACTLY!!!

Truthseeker10:
Did Jesus ever claim that his human will was subjected to his own divine will?

I’ve mentioned before that I’m not a fan of debating whether Christ is God or not. I only chose to engage in this discussion because I had some free time. But now, I’m stepping away from it. You’re free to call Jesus whoever He is to you.
Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
So from your explanation Jesus had to make his human will to conform to his own divine will? So Jesus had two conflicting will within himself while he was on earth?

Yes—but not because the two were in sinful conflict, like we often experience. Rather, Jesus had a real human will that, though unfallen, still had to freely choose obedience in the face of real suffering, fear, and pain.

His divine will is eternal, unchanging, and always aligned with the Father and the Spirit.

His human will, by nature, could feel the natural aversion to pain or death (e.g., in Gethsemane), but it was never rebellious or sinful.

So, when Jesus said “Not my will, but yours be done” (Luke 22:42), He was freely aligning His human will to the divine will—which was also His own as God the Son.

Truthseeker10:
So what exactly was the human will that Jesus had that was submitted to the Father?

The human will of Jesus was His genuine human capacity to desire, decide, and act—especially in the face of suffering. It was perfectly aligned with God’s will, not by default, but by choice. In submitting it to the Father, Jesus didn’t deny His humanity—He fulfilled it in perfection.

In the Garden of Gethsemane, we clearly see His human will in tension with the reality of the cross:

“Father, if You are willing, take this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” (Luke 22:42)

Here, His human will naturally recoils from suffering and death—but He chooses to submit that will to the divine plan of redemption.

Truthseeker10:
So from your explanation above, the will of Jesus was not part of his essence?

Jesus’ will is part of His essence—but He has two wills: one divine and one human.

A divine will—in perfect unity with the Father

John 5:19 - Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 6:38 - For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

A human will—which He subjected in obedience to the Father (Luke 22:42: “Not my will, but yours be done”)


So, when Jesus submitted His will to the Father, He was doing so in His human will, not because His essence lacked divinity. His divine will was always in unity with the Father's will, because they are one in essence.

gohf:
are you saying that now Jesus is equal or greater than the Father?
Are you saying that Jesus is no more in the flesh?
Are you saying that the Father's role now is lesser?

As I’ve mentioned to "truthseeker10" before, I normally don’t engage in debates about whether Christ is God or not. I believe everyone should refer to Him as they have come to know Him—or as the Spirit has revealed Him to them.

I’ve discussed this topic with you in the past, and I chose to agree with you at the time—not because I was fully convinced, but because I know these kinds of topics often lead to endless arguments. Honestly, I’ve also noticed that your choice of words can sometimes come across as impolite, and I’m not interested in having that kind of exchange.

If anything I’ve said has come across as offensive or embarrassing, I sincerely apologize.

Thank you.

Truthseeker10:
So in what function precisely was the father greater than Jesus?
In what way was Jesus still equal to the father in essence?

A.) Functionally, the Father was greater than Jesus in the context of the incarnation, because Jesus had taken on a role of submission and servanthood as part of His mission on earth.

Jesus said repeatedly that He came to do the will of the Father (John 6:38), not His own. He obeyed, prayed to, and was sent by the Father.

Incarnational Humility, Philippians 2:6–8 explains that Jesus, though equal with God, “made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a servant” and “humbled Himself.”

B.) In essence (nature), Jesus remained fully and eternally God, equal with the Father in every divine attribute:

John 1:1 – “The Word was God.”

Colossians 2:9 – “In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.”

Hebrews 1:3 – “He is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being.”

John 10:30 – “I and the Father are one.”

Truthseeker10:
Explain John 14:28 in connection with the bolded above.

When Jesus says, “The Father is greater than I,” He is speaking as the incarnate Son, who willingly humbled Himself and took on human flesh (Philippians 2:6–7). In His humanity, He voluntarily submitted to the Father’s will and accepted a lower position for the sake of our salvation.

So, the Father is “greater” in function or role during the incarnation, not in essence. Jesus still retained full divinity but operated in a position of submission.

In short, Jesus wasn’t denying His divinity—He was preparing the disciples for His departure. He emphasized the greatness of the Father to comfort them, showing that His going away was part of a larger divine plan. If the Father was greater in position, then His return to the Father was not a loss but a completion of His mission.

Truthseeker10:
If the Word was God Almighty, is he no longer God almighty?

I normally don’t get into debates about whether Christ is God or not. I believe everyone should call Him who they believe He is—or as the Spirit reveals Him to them. However, I felt it was important to respond to MaxInDHouse, who referred to Jesus merely as a prophet.

But I will reply to you concerning whether He is God or not.

The Word was God Almighty—and still is. When John 1:1 says, “the Word was God,” it doesn’t mean He used to be God and then stopped. It affirms the eternal and divine nature of the Word from the very beginning.

When the Word became flesh (John 1:14), He didn’t lose His divinity—He added humanity to Himself. As Philippians 2:6–7 says:

“Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to His own advantage; rather, He made Himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.”

So, the incarnation wasn’t subtraction—it was addition. The eternal Son of God became fully human without ceasing to be fully God. That’s why He could say in John 8:58, “Before Abraham was, I AM,” applying to Himself the divine name.

oridavid:
That’s reasonable but that’s not the tone of the message. The tone of the message was to show that if Adam touched the fruit there will be consequence. It’s a show of power not just an instruction.

Because if Adam touched the fruit, he’ll become like God and may want to get too cocky but God was reassuring him before hand that that would end in tears for him (not literally btw).

Also, if the death was just what Adam did and it’s something Adam would cause by himself, that would me Adam could have reversed his actions and not die anymore. But the death is not in the power of Adam.

There’s no where in the Bible where God is called life. Only Christ was called life and that’s because he carried the living word of God in his heart and became life for.

God is not life, his word is life. If someone separate himself from the word through rejection and offense, they’ll die physically and God will destroy them in the end along with Adam.

First, regarding Genesis 3:3, the phrase “lest you die” isn’t framed as a threat but as a warning. It's more like a doctor saying, “Don’t inject poison into your veins, lest you die.” The consequence is intrinsic to the act, not necessarily an imposed punishment. So yes, it shows authority, but more so parental guidance than a show of force. The power is in the nature of the separation, not a show of coercion.

About Adam “becoming like God”—that comes from the serpent's words in Genesis 3:5, not God's. The serpent said, “you shall be as gods,” which was a lie mixed with partial truth to tempt Eve. God never said that eating the fruit would make them gods—He said they would die. So the idea that God was afraid Adam would get "cocky" is a projection that doesn’t align with the narrative. God’s concern in Genesis 3:22 was about man living forever in a fallen state, which is why He blocked access to the Tree of Life—not out of insecurity but mercy.

You mentioned that if Adam caused death by himself, then he could reverse it. But Scripture teaches that Adam’s action brought about a condition (spiritual death) that he couldn't reverse on his own. That’s why redemption had to come through Christ. Romans 5:12 says, “By one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin...”—death wasn’t externally imposed, it was the inevitable consequence of sin, which is separation from God (Isaiah 59:2). Adam lost something he couldn't recover by himself: fellowship with the life-giving presence of God.

Finally, regarding God being life—Scripture does identify God as life, directly and indirectly:

Deuteronomy 30:20 calls God “your life and the length of your days.”

Psalm 36:9 says, “For with you is the fountain of life.”

And 1 Timothy 6:16 says God “alone has immortality.”

So while Christ is explicitly called “the life” in John 14:6, He also said, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). Christ’s life is not separate from God’s essence—He reveals what the Father is. So to say God is not life but His word is life is a bit of a false split. His word carries His nature because He is life.

Dtruthspeaker:
Especially as God even foretells us what He is going to do before He even does it, so old and new testament does not really exist.

And God was/is still God and He remained the same.

What do you mean by old and new testament does not really exist?

Reekv:
Kindly drop your comments please

The New Testament is hidden within the Old, and the Old Testament is unveiled in the New.

There’s no contradiction—only continuity and fulfillment. If anything seems unclear, ASK??

Captain4Jehovah:
But honestly, how many preachers say that? Instead, many teach tithing from a place of fear, using the curse in Malachi 3 as leverage. People end up giving not from love or faith, but from fear and the expectation of immediate blessings. And when God is misrepresented like this, it grieves many of us who see Him through the lens of Christ—gracious, loving, and already fully given to us"

You penned the major cause why most Christians kick against tithing especially the youth. They don't simply defy the order of tithing because of their spiritual discernment or theology inclination; they do so because they believe ministers of God make big earnings from it as in business enterprise as seen by their lavish and luxurious lifestyles without catering for the poor among the sheep of God. Many are languishing in poverty. Many are famishing which is against the intent of God regarding tithing(food must go round; no one must go hungry within the community of God's people).Those who turn this into a business enterprise like sale of indulgences Martin Luther fought against, I should say, forget they are not laboring for God but their belly_"their belly is their god." And also, they care not to believe they are also tithers as they indulge in Malachi 3:6-12. Where do their tithes go to? To the orphanage homes or impoverished community of the living God or to the building of the church itself? Where it goes calls for questioning! Where lack of transparency in the Church finances is, there will be questioning as to where and what the money is used for. "Floor members", I should say(all are equal before God) will start poking into the finances and once this is discovered by those in charge and ministers, problem starts.
I must say this too: these set of ministers have the mindset of "I am the owner of my church"; they therefore lord over and become overseer of tithes and even offering rather than feeding the sheep bought with priceless blood of Jesus with sound spiritual food.

Thank you for your honest submission—I truly appreciate it. You highlighted various perspectives, most of which focused on the reasons why many people reject the concept of tithing.

MaxInDHouse:
If you feel Peter an apostle of Christ Jesus is wrong who am i?
Abeg there's no need arguing that's what the scriptures say!

Laughing.....no wahala baba.

But just know that I don’t believe Peter was wrong at all—he spoke by revelation and with authority as an apostle of Christ. In fact, I’m aligning with what he understood by revelation from the Father in Matthew 16:16—that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.

When Peter referred to Jesus as the “Prophet like unto Moses” in Acts 3, he wasn’t reducing Him to just a prophet. He was connecting the dots for Israel, using what they knew to reveal who Jesus truly is—the promised Messiah and far more than a prophet.

So, I'm not arguing with Peter; I'm reading all he said in full context. Scripture doesn’t contradict itself, it builds a complete picture when rightly divided.

MaxInDHouse:
Peter called Jesus a prophet. Act 3:20, 22, 26
So it's what is written in the Bible that i'm saying! Deuteronomy 18:18



A God is someone who had authority.

So Moses and Jesus were given authority for a period of time that's the same thing that qualified to be called Gods. Psalms 82:1, 6

Peter quotes Deuteronomy 18:18 (via verse 22), calling Jesus "that prophet" Moses spoke of. But he is not limiting Jesus to being a mere prophet. Instead, he is showing that Jesus is:

The fulfillment of what Moses prophesied,

The one Israel was commanded to listen to,

And the one whom rejecting would bring judgment (v. 23).

Then in verse 26:

Acts 3:26 - Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Here, Peter no longer uses the word “prophet” but speaks of Jesus as God’s Son and the risen one who brings blessing and salvation—not just prophecy.

Most people called Him what they could comprehend—a prophet, teacher, healer. But Jesus’ true identity was revealed by the Father, testified by the Spirit, and unfolded in His resurrection and ascension.

Don't forget Peter spoke to the people of Israel in a way they could understand, using language and references familiar to them. However, it's important to remember that Peter already had a divine revelation of who Jesus truly is. As recorded in Matthew 16:13–17, when Jesus asked, “Who do you say that I am?”, Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus affirmed this by saying that it was not human insight, but the Father in heaven who revealed this truth to Peter.


The statement "A God is someone who had authority" does not fully capture the biblical understanding of God's nature.

God is not simply defined by possessing authority; rather, He is the ultimate source of all authority (John 1:3). In Scripture, God is portrayed as the Creator, the Sovereign, and the Supreme Being, whose authority is intrinsic, unlimited, and not something He merely "has."

Furthermore, your comparison of Moses to Christ, in relation to authority, is not accurate. While Moses was a faithful servant of God, Jesus, as the Son of God, is the full revelation of God Himself—far surpassing Moses in authority and nature.

MaxInDHouse:
Where most people don't notice is the past tense used in the Bible:


John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ‭NIV‬


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. KJV


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. NWT

None said "the word is God" rather they all said the word WAS God.

WHY?

Because Jesus is the prophet who came in the manner of Moses {Deuteronomy 18:18} and Moses WAS a God! Exodus 7:1

MaxInDHouse, greetings to you.

Calling Jesus a prophet is reductive and insufficient. While He displayed prophetic traits, such a label does not capture the fullness of His identity.

The verse you cited—Deuteronomy 18:18—doesn't directly refer to Jesus in the way some assume:

“I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth...”

This passage initially referred to a line of prophets like Moses. But Moses wasn’t “God over Israel”—he acted as God’s representative, particularly in confrontation with Pharaoh( was made “like God” to Pharaoh, ). So if Moses wasn't divine, how much more distinct is Jesus, who didn't merely speak for God but spoke as God?

Jesus didn’t just act like a prophet—He transcended that role entirely.

Prophets were servants in God’s house (Hebrews 3:5).
Jesus is the Son over the house (Hebrews 3:6).

Prophets spoke on behalf of God.
Jesus spoke as God (John 1:1, 14; John 14:9).

Prophets pointed forward to the coming salvation.
Jesus is the fulfillment of what they foretold (Luke 24:27; Revelation 19:10).


So if Jesus (The WORD) was God and not God as you claim —over whom is He God, and for how long?

Captain4Jehovah:
I like this! It is becoming clearer to me day by day as this discus deepens that you know who you serve_the living God! It's my joy! This is my sincere submission! But, God may not be a transactional as you said because He wouldn't lower or belittle Himself as a man does in a way to gain profit. I mean to say, in a selfish manner. Still, IT IS POSSIBLE AND ACCEPTABLE TO PROVOKE HIS BLESSINGS. A clear and SIMILAR EXAMPLE of this is the one found in Acts 10 about Cornelius. Another one was the one I gave about the Zarephath widow. Just mention a few. However, our relationship with God and the person we are to Him are two determinants which I see as a platform to draw these blessings to ourself. Our faith can stir us up to. Our reliance on who He is to us could be a drive for provoking God to bless us more. Mind you, these blessings may not necessarily mean our savings will become robust. Likewise, in my write-up, I clearly stated that tithers must not have the mind of receiving its dividend immediately. You tithe and leave the rest to God. From the inception, tithing has not been a means of provoking God to blessing nor moving Him in order to recompensate His Children. No one can BRIBE Him! If you are convinced to tithe, do it; if otherwise, leave it!
I must say this: the trend of beliefs in Christianity has been a major cause for different doctrines. And this has caused many to drift away from what Jesus taught his apostles. But mind you, Jesus has not changed. God has not changed. They have not left their thrones in spite of human arguments on what is right or what is wrong. So, what is mortals' stress?!

I truly appreciate how you're engaging this with sincerity and depth. I agree with you on several points—especially that God is not transactional in a selfish or human way, and that no one can bribe Him. Like you said, tithing or giving should never be done with a 'get something in return' mindset.

But honestly, how many preachers say that? Instead, many teach tithing from a place of fear, using the curse in Malachi 3 as leverage. People end up giving not from love or faith, but from fear and the expectation of immediate blessings. And when God is misrepresented like this, it grieves many of us who see Him through the lens of Christ—gracious, loving, and already fully given to us.

As for Cornelius and the widow at Zarephath, I see those more as examples of how God responds to faith and reverence—not as rewards for giving. Cornelius feared God and lived righteously before the angel even appeared. The widow simply obeyed God's word through Elijah. Their posture of heart drew God's response—not their offerings.

So yes, I believe faith, love, and obedience position us to walk in what God already intends—not to move Him as if He’s reluctant. He blesses because of who He is—not because we earned it. That’s what makes His grace so amazing. At the end of the day, I think we’re after the same thing: a relationship with a loving, holy, and generous God—not a formula. Thanks again for this meaningful exchange."

oridavid:
Like I said in the write up, nothing in the verse indicates that. Nothing in the idea of spiritual death in Ephesians tells you that this will happen on a day, but the final death is known to happen on the day of God. So i don't think it was anything like spiritual.

Also, let's not make it like God reacted immediately Adam sinned. God does not reach immediately.

The issue here is that spiritual death isn’t about God punishing Adam in reaction to his offense, but rather about Adam willfully separating himself from the source of life—God. Since God is life, choosing separation from Him inevitably results in death. So, I’m not saying that God reacted to Adam’s actions either immediately or later.

Genesis 3:3 – “But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.”