₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
Misinformation is the problem most people have the word GRACE has been misconstrued as condoning wrongdoing but what is the meaning?

Another word for grace is "UNDESERVED KINDNESS" it means God's kindness towards a sinner that such wrongdoers doesn't deserve.

For instance death is the wages of sin {Romans 6:23} but instead of killing us immediately for our wrongdoing God showed us mercy by allowing us to keep on living then in that same state God provided a sacrificial lamb that will bear all our sin so that we are declared righteous due to the blood of Jesus.
This doesn't mean that a Christian can now choose wrongdoing as an hobby but whatever error we commit unknowingly due to imperfection we only need to go and discuss it with the elders representing the congregation of God and their prayer will serve as healing for our downhearted soul. James 5:14-15
But whoever chooses to continue in his or her wrongdoing wilfully is nailing Jesus again for the second time {Hebrews 6:4-6} such ones will start hiding their sins away from the congregation by not associating with those who can help them with God's word {Hebrews 10:24-25} there is no redemption for them! Hebrews 10:26-31

I agree with everything you wrote except the point about confessing our wrongdoing to an Elder. I stand to be corrected, but I believe that the primary recipient of our confession is God Himself. Scripture encourages us to confess our sins directly to Him, as seen in Psalm 51:4: "Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight." Similarly, 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

while Scripture encourages confessing sins to God and, in certain contexts, to fellow believers, it does not explicitly require confessing sins to a specific person or institution.

[quote author=MaxInDHouse post=134041802][/quote]I understand your reasoning, but I still maintain that God is never restricted to a particular place, no matter the situation. Most of the attributions in the texts you referenced especially in Genesis 6:6 are anthropopathic—human-like descriptions to help us relate to His actions.

Moreover, God does not focus only on faithful people. Matthew 5:45 makes it clear that He provides for both the righteous and the unrighteous, showing that His presence and care extend to all, not just those who please Him. While He delights in the faithful, He does not ignore or become unaware of unbelievers. His omniscience means He knows all things, even if He disapproves of sinful actions.

The idea that He "does not know" unbelievers is metaphorical, emphasizing their spiritual disconnection rather than literal ignorance. Even in judgment, His presence remains everywhere, and He continues to govern all creation. His holiness may lead to separation from sin, but that does not mean He withdraws or restricts Himself in any way.

MaxInDHouse:
Thankgod89

I never stated that God restricted Himself to a particular place. My point has always been that God is omnipresent and not confined to any specific location. If there was any misunderstanding, I’d be happy to clarify further.

Kobojunkie:
1. I should ask for outward proof since I can't read your mind but your actions and so far, it seems your grace thingy does not guarantee any real behavioral —outward changes — that can in fact be linked back to it.

2. You just lied! According to Jesus Christ of Israel whom you pretend to follow, there are outward proofs of what He gave to His followers. There were signs which were served as proof of their being His followers - Mark 16 vs 14-19 - and we read in the book of Acts of His actual followers going on to do many of what Jesus Christ of Israel Himself did while He was alive. There was no report of them failing to heal —the writers reported the same 100% success rate that was recorded during the time of Jesus Christ of Israel as far as His disciples.

You pretend what you have is from that same Jesus Christ of Israel but unfortunately what you have comes with no proof implying you don't have Jesus Christ of Israel at all but some counterfeit linked to religion instead.

THANK YOU!!!

GOOD NIGHT.

Kobojunkie:
So, what you are saying is that you have no outward proof of any you claim to have there? You have no proof of this salvation which you claim and of this holy spirit of yours which seems to tell at least over 45,000 different stories/tales going by the over 45,000 different denominations of the religion of Christianity, all of which conflict with the others. Does this make sense to you?

2. The bulk of the good done in the world we live in today is literally done by those who don't even believe in your particular deity. So, if believing in your particular deity provides individuals with no tangible measure, of what use is this grace that you offer to them?

I’ve explained myself to you, yet you continue asking for outward proof. Bro/Mr., I am more than sufficient—beyond measure. I’m not here to prove my material success.

I’ve seen your comments in many posts, and I’m convinced that you stand against the CROSS. Your acts of antagonism will never change the fact that JESUS CHRIST REMAINS THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD. I am here to testify to the transformation I’ve experienced since accepting Him as my personal Savior.

Feel free to continue acting like Jannes and Jambres, as described in 2 Timothy 3:8, but the truth will stand.

Kobojunkie:
So, where are the signs of this unmerited favor and divine empowerment to be observed or seen in your life as opposed to the life of someone who is not a Christian... say a Muslim or even an athiest?

Understand this: God’s grace is not measured by material success, an easy life, or external achievements. I’m a civil engineer, and I know what I’ve accomplished and this has nothing to do with me being Christian. Many non-Christians are wealthy, intelligent, and even morally upright. But the true mark of grace is a transformed relationship with God—something that cannot be earned through human effort.

You're asking about the unmerited favor I’ve received from God. It may seem ordinary to you, but to me, it’s priceless.

Salvation through Christ – I am saved by grace, not by my own efforts or good deeds.

Forgiveness of sins – No matter how broken my past, God’s mercy has given me a fresh start.

The Holy Spirit’s presence – God lives within me, guiding, strengthening, and transforming my life.

I can personally testify to God’s power in freeing me from addictions and destructive habits. I struggled with masturbation, adultery, and anger at the slightest provocation. This change did not come from self-discipline alone but from God working in me.

That said, I’m not claiming that non-believers are incapable of doing good. The real difference isn’t just in outward morality but in the deeper reason and power behind how believers live. A Christian’s transformation is not based on personal willpower but on God’s grace actively working within them.

You don’t know me, and sharing my journey doesn’t mean you won’t still criticize or dragged me. Believe what you choose, and let peace reign.

Thank you.

Kobojunkie:
1.
Also, at this point it may make sense to ask that you explain what exactly grace is since there seem to be so many different definitions of what it is across the many different denominations of Christianity.

The term grace is often used in different ways, but at its core, biblical grace refers to God’s unearned favor and enabling power. Let’s break it down into two key aspects:

1. Grace as Unmerited Favor

Grace means that God offers love, forgiveness, and salvation not because of human effort or worthiness, but as a free gift. This is seen in:

Salvation by grace – “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:.

Forgiveness despite failure – “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:.


2. Grace as Divine Empowerment

Grace is not just about forgiveness—it also transforms and strengthens believers to live rightly. It’s God’s power at work in human weakness, as seen in:

Victory over sin – “For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace” (Romans 6:14).

Strength in weakness – “My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is made perfect in weakness” (2 Corinthians 12:9).


While denominations emphasize different aspects of grace, the core idea remains: [b]Grace is God’s loving favor and power freely given to undeserving people. [/b]Some groups focus more on its role in salvation, others on its role in daily Christian living, but the essence is the same.

Kobojunkie:
1. Changed lives, you say? They are real yet in Nigeria where at least 60 million of the populace claim to have this same testimony are also among the worst of Nigeria. How come?

2. Acts of love and sacrifice? Do you mean the same acts that are carried out by non-Christian organizations like UNICEF, USAID, etc, in the same Nigeria?

3. Personal encounters and understanding which has resulted in the creation of over 45,000 different images of the same Christian God — denominations in the same religion? Anyone looking from the outside would note that the many contradictory ideas cannot be cohesively merged together for good reason hence the division that is observed even within Christianity and among Christians.

4. It is not vague yet all you have stated are vague ideas/conclusions of what it is.

Please note that none of the above definitively answers the question I asked earlier. Also, at this point it may make sense to ask that you explain what exactly grace is since there seem to be so many different definitions of what it is across the many different denominations of Christianity.

I see your skepticism, and it's fair to demand concrete evidence rather than general claims. Let me address your points directly.

1. Changed Lives vs. Nigeria’s Reality

You highlight that Nigeria, despite having millions of professing Christians, still struggles with corruption and societal decay. The issue here is not the failure of grace but the inconsistency between professed faith and actual transformation. Not everyone who claims Christianity truly lives by its principles. Jesus Himself warned of this:
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father” (Matthew 7:21).

That said, real transformation does exist in Nigeria and elsewhere—individuals and communities where Christian values have led to positive change. However, faith that is cultural or superficial will not yield genuine transformation, just as having a hospital nearby does not mean everyone is healed.

2. Acts of Love & Non-Christian Organizations

Yes, organizations like UNICEF and USAID also perform humanitarian work. But the presence of secular efforts does not negate the role of Christian-driven charity. Many non-religious organizations today were historically influenced or founded on Christian values. The distinction is that Christian charity is driven by a spiritual calling, often working in places others avoid.

More importantly, Christianity does not claim exclusivity in doing good. Jesus’ parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25-37) shows that love and service are not bound to religious labels. The real question is not who does good but why grace transforms some to do good sacrificially, even when it is not required by law or policy.

3. Denominational Divisions & Contradictions

You point to 45,000 denominations as evidence of Christianity’s inconsistency. But division does not necessarily mean falsehood—it often reflects human imperfection, cultural differences, and theological nuances. Despite disagreements, core Christian beliefs remain intact: grace, salvation through Christ, love, and righteousness.

Consider how science has thousands of conflicting theories yet still pursues truth. Disagreements do not invalidate the pursuit, and unity is not required for truth to exist. Even with divisions, Christianity remains the largest and most enduring faith in human history.

4. Is Grace Just an Idea?

I get your frustration—you’re asking for something tangible, not just concepts. But grace, like love, justice, or consciousness, is not a physical object to be placed under a microscope. It is seen in its effects. If a corrupt man turns honest, an addict becomes free, or a persecuted believer loves his enemies, what caused that shift? These transformations are the real-world impact of grace.


If you’re asking where grace can be objectively examined, look at individuals, not institutions. Look at those who live out their faith consistently, even when it costs them something. If Christianity were false, its transformative power would not be seen across time, cultures, and history. Yet, despite human flaws, that change continues.

Kobojunkie:
But where is the evidence of the grace idea itself in the lives of over the 2.2. billion Catholics and Christians across the globe? Where can it be seen and examined?

The evidence of grace is not measured by the perfection of every individual who claims Christianity, but by the undeniable transformation it brings to those who truly embrace it. If we look beyond institutions and flawed human behavior, we see grace at work in:

1. Changed Lives – Millions testify to radical personal transformation, from addiction to freedom, hatred to love, selfishness to service. These are real, observable shifts in character that psychology alone cannot fully explain.

2. Acts of Love and Sacrifice – Christian organizations lead in humanitarian efforts—feeding the poor, caring for the sick, and advocating for justice. Hospitals, orphanages, and schools worldwide exist because of this grace-driven compassion.

3. Personal Encounters – The most compelling evidence is found in those who have experienced God’s grace firsthand. Millions speak of peace beyond understanding, freedom from guilt, and a love that transforms their entire being.

Grace is not a vague idea—it is a force that changes hearts, communities, and history itself. It can be examined in lives truly surrendered to Christ, where the evidence is undeniable.

The doctrine of hyper-grace teaches that because of God's grace, Christians no longer need to repent or strive for holiness, as all sins—past, present, and future—are already forgiven. While God's grace is indeed abundant and central to salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9), this belief distorts the biblical balance between grace and responsibility.

1. Grace Does Not Abolish Obedience
Jesus Himself said, “If you love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15). Paul, who preached salvation by grace, also warned, “Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!” (Romans 6:1-2). True grace empowers believers to live righteously, not to remain in sin.

2. Repentance is Ongoing
The Bible repeatedly calls believers to repentance, not just at salvation but as a continual act (Acts 3:19, 1 John 1:9). Even churches in Revelation were rebuked for sin and called to repent (Revelation 2:5, 3:19).

3. Holiness is Still Required
Hebrews 12:14 states, “Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” Grace enables, but does not replace, our call to holy living.

4. Judgment Still Exists
While believers are saved by grace, they are still accountable (2 Corinthians 5:10). Jesus warned that many who call Him “Lord” will be rejected because they practiced lawlessness (Matthew 7:21-23).


A biblical understanding of grace does not lead to lawlessness but to transformation (Titus 2:11-12). True grace calls us to deeper love, repentance, and obedience, not complacency in sin.

MaxInDHouse:
He never claimed omniscient it's humans with their presumptuousness who are saying all that!

That’s an interesting take. However, many scriptures in the Bible describe God as all-knowing. For example, Psalm 147:5 says, "Great is our Lord and abundant in power; His understanding is beyond measure." And 1 John 3:20 states, "God is greater than our heart, and He knows everything."

Would you say these verses suggest omniscience, or do you interpret them differently?

MaxInDHouse:
That's what the Bible teaches about God and there is a reason why He can't be present everywhere it's not that He is not capable to do so but He just restricted Himself for a reason!

It sounds like you’re saying that God, though capable of being everywhere, has chosen to limit His presence for a purpose. That’s an interesting perspective. Could you elaborate on what you believe that reason is?

PerfectView:
If we read these verses literally, Genesis 1:31 says that God was satisfied that everything in creation was good, and Genesis 6:6 says that God later realised that this was not the case. That means that at the time of creation, God did not know what the future would be—he was not omniscient. What is your view about this?

I view this passages as anthropopathic—using human terms to describe God's actions in ways we can understand.

God is omniscient, meaning He knew from the beginning how history would unfold. Genesis 6:6, which speaks of God "regretting" or being "grieved," is often understood as a way of expressing His moral displeasure with human sin, not a sign that He lacked foreknowledge. This aligns with the idea that God's regret is relational, showing His sorrow over humanity’s choices rather than indicating a change in His knowledge or nature.

MaxInDHouse:
According to the Bible God is not present everywhere!

God said to Abraham :

“The outcry against Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah is indeed great, and their sin is very heavy. I will go down to see whether they are acting according to the outcry that has reached me. And if not, I can get to know it.” Genesis 18:20-21

How can God be everywhere yet He wants to go and verify the reports brought to Him?

This is just an anthropopathic. God sometime do things to for man to bear him witness.

ebubeson:
Is Christianity all about been blessed and favoured? Is there any such thing as a Christian been sick, suffering, having lack, been denied privileges, not getting a job yet, having issues with getting admission, having delay in child birth e.t.c.
If we tell the world that being a Child of God is only about enjoyment, favour, happiness, riches etc, then we have not sold the right gospel. While Jesus Christ will give good things, Christians should expect times of challenges, denials e.t.c. Example, if a Christian refuses to compromise in an exam, refuses connive to false figure in an office, upholds integrity, preach the truth, such Christianity may face persecutions. Again, while a born again Christian has privileges to enjoy in Christ, he may also face life's challenges.
The church should avoid giving Christians only very sweet and high expectations in Christ. While Jesus Christ gives a sweet life, Christians should know that their is suffering too as part of Christianity. Jesus said "In this world ye shall have tribulations but be of good cheer for I have overcome the world".

There are many misconceptions about the Christian life, particularly regarding enjoyment and suffering. The way suffering is perceived matters. Do not be surprised—God and Christ never intended for anyone to suffer in the sense of lacking money or good health. Suffering in Christ is about humility before God and enduring persecution for His sake.

Psalm 115:16 says, “The heavens belong to the Lord, but the earth He has given to the children of men.” If you define suffering in Christ as poverty, lack of money, lack of food, or sickness, you are mistaken. The Bible teaches that "the diligent in their work will stand before kings, not mere men." Every child of God has been given the ability to manifest their potential and thrive in life.

When the Bible says Christ became poor for our sake, it is not referring to material poverty. In fact, Jesus was not poor—He fed over five thousand people and even provided money from a fish’s mouth. Understanding Philippians 2:5-6 clarifies that He gave up His heavenly riches to take on human form for our salvation, here is how he became poor for our sake.

Therefore, suffering in Christ is not about financial hardship or sickness but the persecutions and challenges faced in fulfilling our Christian duties.

Shalom!

The gospel of Jesus Christ is not about what we can gain materially, but about what Christ has already done for us. It is the good news that through His life, death, and resurrection, we have been reconciled to God, forgiven of our sins, and invited into a relationship with Him. This gospel is about transformation, not transaction. It is about surrender, not self-exaltation.

We are not promised a life free of trials, but we are promised that God’s grace will carry us through them. As Jesus said, “In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world” (John 16:33). This is the hope and assurance that His grace provides.

Yes, the Prosperity Gospel can rightly be called "a gospel that is not the gospel" because it misrepresents the heart of Christ's grace and the biblical message of salvation and the Christian life.

The Prosperity Gospel, often known as the "Health and Wealth Gospel," teaches that God's primary goal is to bless believers with material wealth, health, and success. It suggests that if you have enough faith, give generously, and follow specific principles, God will reward you with prosperity. However, this teaching falls short of the beauty and depth of Christ's grace.

The Prosperity Gospel portrays God as someone who rewards based on performance—faith, giving, or works. This contradicts the biblical truth that God’s grace is freely given, not earned. As Ephesians 2:8–9 reminds us, “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.”

The Prosperity Gospel, while appealing to human desires, distorts the message of Christ’s grace and the nature of the Christian life. True grace is not about accumulating wealth or avoiding hardship; it is about knowing Christ, being transformed by His love, and living for His glory. As Paul warned, “If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!” (Galatians 1:9).

Let us hold firmly to the true gospel of grace, which offers eternal riches in Christ and sustains us through all of life’s circumstances.

gohf:
Infact if God is your father, would you be praying against powers of your father's house 😁

I truly appreciate this. You have great knowledge when it comes to Scriptural interpretation. Please, whenever I bring up a discussion, don’t hesitate to correct me if you notice any errors in my explanation. Thank you for taking the time to provide detailed explanations that have greatly enhanced my understanding.

Janosky:

EVERYTHING proceeds from God the Father Creator of Jesus & EVERYTHING.
Ephesians 1:3 & Ephesians 4:6, God is the Father of ALL not Jesus Christ.
John 1:1 says "the Word" not your word (@ John 17:17).
@ John 1:1 " the Word",a being Jesus proceeds from God his Father and Creator.
Anyone that proceeds from God is a god.
God the Source/Origin said his sons are gods, Psalms 82:1,6. ( This truth Confirmed by Jesus @ John 10:34-36.
Therefore,@ John 1:1,"the Word /son of God is a god).
God his Father did not proceed from any Source.
Oga, do you understand that?

Where in my writing do you see that I claim God proceeds from a single source?

Truthseeker10:
So Jesus on earth was not fully God since he was physical on earth? Does the word 'God' in John 1:18 refer to Jesus since he shares the same essence(God) with the Father?


If people saw the father when they saw Jesus according to John 14:9, are you now saying that Jesus was the father on earth? Would you not also be contradicting John 1:18 that says that no one has seen 'God' at any time?

Here’s an analogy (though not perfect, as God transcends human understanding):

Let consider the sun as a source. From it come light, heat, and radiance.

The light represents the Father, illuminating and guiding all things.

The radiance represents the Son, the visible expression of the source.

The heat represents the Spirit, the energy and presence felt by all.


Though they are distinct in function, they all originate from the same source (the sun) and share the same essence.

In the Trinity:

The Father is the source and origin.

The Son is the Word, through whom the Father creates and redeems.

The Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, applying God’s work to creation and believers.


From the analogy, we can understand who Jesus is. The issue arises from calling Him God, which stems from the fact that one cannot be separated from their word. If there were another name to describe Jesus apart from "God," much of the debate might not exist.

gohf:
The christ you call God is falsechrist the antichrist. Churches worshipping trinity instead of YHVH are churches of the devil, with signs and wonders to lead you to hell. These are like the gates of hell

Many people follow this doctrine unknowingly, but what will their fate be? I truly understand your explanation from our conversation today, and I thank God that I got it right. However, I need from you a deeper explanation of Isaiah 9:6.

Thank you.

gohf:
you ask without answering 🤦🏿‍♂️

Should you not question the translation when you read his name and not his nameS?

Should you not question the translation when it says he will be called everlasting Father? Whereas Jesus was never called Father but called God Father?

Would you accept the correct translation when you reject God's word already, because of what you believe?

Severally times I have answered this same question and none of them have refuted it but excused it while continuing to believe their nonsense.

If you answer even just the questions I have posted here I may answer you but if you don't, don't you see it doesn't matter. To you it is perspective but to me it is souls.

The difference is truly the heart, if the spirit of God cannot or doesn't tell you why should I? Ask him what is his name, who does the spirit of God tell you the Messiah is?

I reviewed your point after work and fully understand it now. I apologize if any of my statements offended you. This is a learning process, and I humbly agree with your perspective. By the way, may I ask who you are?

Thanks so much and may God continue to bless your knowledge in Him. Amen

Truthseeker10:
So explain John 1:18.
King James Bible
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

If Jesus is the Almighty God according to John 1:1, why then does John 1:18 says no one has seen God when people actually saw Jesus?

John 1:18 emphasizes the transcendence and invisibility of God in His essence. God, in His full, infinite, and spiritual nature, cannot be seen by human eyes or comprehended fully by finite beings. However, the verse goes on to state that the "only begotten Son" (Jesus), who is intimately united with the Father ("in the bosom of the Father", has "declared" or revealed Him.

John 1:1 affirms Jesus' divinity, calling Him the "Word" (Logos), who was both with God and was God. Jesus is understood as God incarnate—the physical, human manifestation of the divine. When people saw Jesus, they saw God in a form that humanity could perceive and relate to. Jesus Himself addressed this when He said, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:9).

Truthseeker10:
Do you agree that the diagram in the screenshot below explains the structure of the Trinity?

I agree with the structure

gohf:
did I preach a translation to you? No

Did you not miss the whole point of the message? Yes

Did you ignore the things I wrote? Yes

Are you here justifying yourself again? Yes

Was I wrote not in the name of Jesus? Yes it was

If you see my responses as calling your perspective nonsense, then is your pride more important than the truth?

Have you focused on what is true? No, you haven't, you have ignored what I asked and restated your perspective even if it means ignoring what both God and Jesus said.

You want to be respected in error?

When God asks you, where you not told, what would you respond?

That you wanted to grow by ignoring what you were told and insisting on what you see?

If you had with honesty and humility wanted to understand Isaiah that you quoted would your response not have been different?

If you cannot see that you are wrong it is not because there is no light but because you are blinded by what is inside. I was blind as well but I didn't have such stubbornness maybe if I did I would be you. I listen and I asked, I studied and I prayed, I waited be it months or years.

Did Paul not take years to study, yet with a little a child run wild, even when corrected you call it your perspective.

What is more important souls perishing because of lack of the truth or your perspective.

You read all I wrote and yet you do not know and still you do not understand.

Have I not taught children with a few verses and they understand even more verses, so if my words do not show you then let the spirit of God do so, but do not give me a hypocritical response of being respectful and focusing on the bigger picture when it is your own picture that you want the focus to be on.

Thank you.

gohf:
you ask without answering 🤦🏿‍♂️

Should you not question the translation when you read his name and not his nameS?

Should you not question the translation when it says he will be called everlasting Father? Whereas Jesus was never called Father but called God Father?

Would you accept the correct translation when you reject God's word already, because of what you believe?

Severally times I have answered this same question and none of them have refuted it but excused it while continuing to believe their nonsense.

If you answer even just the questions I have posted here I may answer you but if you don't, don't you see it doesn't matter. To you it is perspective but to me it is souls.

The difference is truly the heart, if the spirit of God cannot or doesn't tell you why should I? Ask him what is his name, who does the spirit of God tell you the Messiah is?

There are certain statements I find inappropriate when discussing Scripture, especially with someone who is meant to represent Christ, as Colossians 3:17 encourages. Dismissing others' perspectives as "nonsense" doesn’t help anyone grow spiritually. Let’s strive to engage respectfully and focus on understanding the bigger picture.

If the translation I’m using reflects something you disagree with, it’s not something to hold against anyone. If your preferred translation keeps you aligned with your beliefs, then embrace it, and let’s move forward. After all, what truly matters in this journey of faith is Christ, His light, and His righteousness. Please follow your conviction and translation. Thank you.

gohf:
First you did not answer the question, did God lie?

It's important you answer, everyone of you avoid answering this one question DID GOD LIE? It's a yes or a no.

I am bold enough to say scripture NEVER reveals Jesus is God, with God's word backing me up, not opinions not theology.

If you choose to explain a verse outside the word of God, where are you getting your understanding from?

The divinity of Jesus is NOT an essential part of understanding who He is and the power of His sacrifice for sin. For God did not die, and there was NEVER a promise that God would die for anyone.

If I spoke on personal revelation you would claim it is what I saw but now the very word of God revealed to us, now do you then deny the major part because of what you choose to believe?

Here you claim, "If Jesus were not God, His sacrifice could not provide eternal redemption (Hebrews 9:12-14)."

Which is a lie

First the very writer of Hebrews wrote in Heb.5.1 For every high priest taken from among men is appointed for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins.

Heb.5.4 - And no man takes this honor to himself, but he who is called by God, just as Aaron was.
Heb.5.5 - So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: "You are My Son, Today I have begotten You."


So therefore what now is your basis to twist the words of the writer of Hebrews and accuse him of proclaiming Jesus is another god?

Do you not realise the consequences of your teaching?

Heb.9.11 - But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
Heb.9.14 - how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb.9.15 - And for this reason he is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.


Who is Jesus the man chosen by God
Who is Jesus our high priest and mediator
For whom those he mediate? For us
To whom those he mediate? To God, THE LIVING GOD.

Do you even understand the conditions for providing eternal redemption for you to claim he who mediates has to be a god?

You ignore the truth to stand firm on what you believe, you believe the words of the Jews rather than the words of Jesus, isn't it obvious you reject the correction.

The doctrine of the Trinity does contradict this because it is a lie from the devil; it doesn't affirms that God is one in essence but revealed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

What the heck is essence, is God an essence, you have reduced God or killed the one true God in order to create and accept three Gods. Is God three people? Where did God ever say I am three, He never did. Never did He call the son, god the son, if he were god then you accuse God of lying anf denying the godhood of Jesus.

So God filled God with God without measure?

You believe such because the devil is an author of confusion.

How can two things which contradict eachother be both true, except you wish to lie to yourself. How can God say He alone is God, and the son say the same thing, yet you claim that what you say which contradicts them is also true? Remember another truth is what the serpent told Eve.

You say, in John 8:58, that because Jesus declared, "Before Abraham was, I AM," directly referencing God's name in Exodus 3:14. Did God tell you that was or is His name? So if I said I am gohf, I am is my name or since you say I am proofs God, therefore it is God gohf.

what manner of delusion is this?

Is this not in your bible (Exod.3.15) Moreover God said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: "Jehovah, God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.'

Or are you saying God lied and changed His name?
Exod.6.3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name YHVH (Jehovah) I was not known to them.

You claim, "the Jews understood this as a claim to divinity, which is why they sought to stone Him for blasphemy." The very Jews who rejected Jesus as the Messiah and wanted him dead and crucified him. You believe the Jews and not Jesus?

Why did they not stone him, if it wasn't a false accusation? Don't choose to answer what waters the weeds planted by the devil, and neglect the truth.

Don't use this "This verse emphasizes the relationship between the Father and the Son." As an excuse to whitewash a lie.

To close your eyes and write such a thing, "His role as mediator doesn’t negate His divinity but underscores His unique nature as fully God and fully man. Only someone who is both God and man could bridge the gap between a holy God and sinful humanity" adding to God's word are you afraid to accept the truth?

Jesus wasn't bothered God and man, he isn't some hybrid, God didn't sleep with Mary, Jesus is purely and completely a man made by God, not from the dust but from His word. The word didn't become part God and part man neither did it become a 200% mistake which is impossible, he was 100% like God as a man, and he still is a man.

Rom.5.17-18 - For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.


No where is Jesus called God, no where is worshipped as God, he is honoured and worshipped as the lamb of God but never seen nor called God.

Philip didn't worship Jesus and proclaim him God, John who wrote that, wrote right after
John.20.31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Yet what do you believe and teach, if it is not what accuses God of being a liar. An accusation invented by the devil.

Yet here you are, saying, "Instead, Jesus accepts it, affirming His divine nature." Whereas Jesus never accepted worship as God but as Lord whom God made him to be.

Instead of accepting the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus, you distort it and remove the true God and claim that Jesus is both lord and God.

Yet because you want to believe a lie, let it be recorded this day that I have told you the truth but you have said, "the Bible consistently reveals Jesus as both fully God and fully man. His divinity does not contradict the oneness of God but is a key aspect of the Trinity. Understanding this mystery is essential to grasp the full gospel message. Jesus’ divinity gives power to His sacrifice, His resurrection, and His ability to save eternally."

If you do not repent and continue to preach this lie, the doctrine of the nicolitians called the creed of Nicene, and souls perish because of it, let it be on you.

For Jesus is not God, only falsechrist claims to be god

In Bible teaching, it's not simply about saying "yes" or "no." Instead, we aim to explain the scripture’s position, and it’s perfectly fine if you don’t see it from my perspective. My prayer is that God will bless us with deeper understanding and knowledge of Him.

I trust you agree that the prophecy spoken by Prophet Isaiah in Isaiah 9:6 is divinely inspired. The verse states:
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Who do you believe this passage is referring to?

I'm patiently waiting for your response.
Thanks.

gohf:
theological points which are not from God are from the devil, or are you saying God is a liar?

Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.

What is "the mystery of the incarnation"? If not a lie from the devil. Did God become a man or send a man? Why have you chosen to believe a lie that you have been fed even when it goes against God's word? Why have you chosen to side with the world against God's word?

"When Jesus became man" yet you said he is the same yesterday, today and forever.


Yet do even understand the purpose of Philippians 2,
Therefore God also has highly exalted him and given him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Is God a deceiver, that he became a man, then exalts himself or exalts another god? Or is God a rewarder of those who serve and obey Him?

Acts.3.13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go.

Do you not understand or do you pretend not to?

Col 2: 8-10 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

Let me not debate the meaning of the greek word used there that is translated as Godhead but didn't Jesus say in John.10.38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him." Did the Father being in him make him the Father?

Have you no understanding of why Paul says so we are complete in Christ who unites us with the Father?

If you reject what the truth is so as to support your points, who will support you and accept you on that day. I rebuke you out of love, that you may see the error and understand the truth.

So is Jesus to you the sympathetic God? So another god was needed to quench the wrath of God?
Is it the interpretation from the Jews that becomes your truth or the words of Jesus?
You quote from John 5, but then you deny the testimony of the scripture, of John the baptist and of the Father himself, why?

John.5.19 - Then Jesus answered and said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.
John.5.20 - For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel.
John.5.30 - I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

Why do you think Jesus answered this way, was he so afraid of the Jews that he would lie about being equal to God? If he lied then how is Jesus full of grace and truth and by the way does Jesus being full of grace and truth which is the nature of God, make him God, but we also receive same nature from him, does that make us God as well?

John.5.43 - I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.
John.5.44 - How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God?

Are you saying Jesus is lying or hiding or denying he is a god when he acknowledges his father as the ONLY GOD.

This dual nature—fully God and fully man—is central to Christian theology (John 1:14).

We preach the gospel repent for the kingdom of God is at hand
We preach salvation and God's grace but we never proclaim that Jesus is God

John.1.14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only man born of our Father God, full of grace and truth.

John wrote in 1John.4.2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God..

He did not write come as flesh and spirit, Jesus having God's nature as being born of God doesn't make him God but the son of God.

Let me tell you what negates that Jesus is God, except you are calling God a liar

Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. written by prophet Isaiah

Joel 2:27 — And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

Or where they lying on God's behalf?

Was Jesus lying as well?

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Please listen


since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

For there is one God . and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

"You shall have no other gods before Me.

For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Let me respectfully respond to some of your points, as I believe this discussion is important in understanding the identity of Jesus Christ and the message of the gospel.

1. "We never proclaim that Jesus is God"
While the gospel calls us to preach repentance and salvation, Scripture also reveals Jesus' divine identity. John 1:1 explicitly states, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” This same Word, as John 1:14 affirms, “became flesh and dwelt among us.” The divinity of Jesus is an essential part of understanding who He is and the power of His sacrifice for sin. If Jesus were not God, His sacrifice could not provide eternal redemption (Hebrews 9:12-14).

2. "Jesus having God's nature doesn't make Him God but the Son of God"
The title "Son of God" does not diminish Jesus' divinity. Rather, in the cultural and theological context of Scripture, it affirms His equality with God. For instance, in John 5:18, when Jesus called God His Father, the Jews sought to kill Him because they understood that He was "making Himself equal with God." Similarly, Philippians 2:6 says that Jesus, “being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God.”

3. Old Testament affirmations of God's uniqueness
Isaiah 46:9 and Joel 2:27 declare that there is one God, and this remains true. The doctrine of the Trinity does not contradict this; rather, it affirms that God is one in essence but revealed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus’ claims to divinity are consistent with this. For example, in John 8:58, Jesus declared, "Before Abraham was, I AM," directly referencing God's name in Exodus 3:14. The Jews understood this as a claim to divinity, which is why they sought to stone Him for blasphemy.

4. "Eternal life is to know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom You have sent" (John 17:3)
This verse emphasizes the relationship between the Father and the Son. Jesus is sent by the Father to reveal God’s nature and accomplish salvation. Yet throughout His ministry, Jesus also affirms His unity with the Father. In John 10:30, He says, “I and the Father are one,” a statement that caused His opponents to accuse Him of making Himself God (John 10:33).

5. Jesus as Mediator
Yes, 1 Timothy 2:5 declares that Jesus is the "one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus." His role as mediator doesn’t negate His divinity but underscores His unique nature as fully God and fully man. Only someone who is both God and man could bridge the gap between a holy God and sinful humanity (Hebrews 9:15).

6. "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3)
Worship is reserved for God alone, yet Jesus receives worship multiple times in Scripture (Matthew 14:33, John 20:28). Thomas, after seeing the resurrected Christ, declared, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28). If Jesus were not God, He would have rebuked such worship, as Paul and Barnabas did when people tried to worship them (Acts 14:14-15). Instead, Jesus accepts it, affirming His divine nature.

7. Jude 1:4
Jude warns against those who deny "the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ." This passage doesn’t separate Jesus from divinity but highlights the danger of distorting the true identity of both God and Christ. It reminds us of the importance of preserving sound doctrine, including the divinity of Jesus.

Final Thoughts
The Bible consistently reveals Jesus as both fully God and fully man. His divinity does not contradict the oneness of God but is a key aspect of the Trinity. Understanding this mystery is essential to grasp the full gospel message. Jesus’ divinity gives power to His sacrifice, His resurrection, and His ability to save eternally.

Kobojunkie:
Again, you avoid the question...work to Stay focused, please!

This discussion is centered around pointing out that John the Baptist, the Greatest of the Old Prophets — the last of them— was regarded by Jesus Christ as being lesser than the least(not the greatest) in the Kingdom of God of Israel. 🤔

Now, in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46, Jesus Christ Himself, points out that those who are least in the Kingdom of God of Israel —the very same ones He compared to John the Baptist — were destined to eternal damnation. But you claimed earlier that the reason why Jesus Christ had said what He said —made the comparison earlier had to do with those of the Kingdom of God of Israel experiencing what you considered greater privilege. So, please better explain yourself as far as my original question.🤔

2. My refusal to do so is not born of skepticism but rather of the fact that I refuse to shove my own gibberish claims in the mouth of the person of Jesus Christ of Israel. He never linked humility to the least of those in the Kingdom of God, and He certainly never alluded to any such being the case. So, what reason would anyone have to do any such if not maybe to score a valueless point by way of yet another lie? 🤔

Thank you for pointing this out—I appreciate the opportunity to clarify. Let me address your points directly.

1. John the Baptist and the Least in the Kingdom:
You’re correct that Jesus described John the Baptist as "lesser than the least" in the Kingdom of God. This comparison highlights the shift between the Old Covenant (which John represents) and the New Covenant that Jesus inaugurates. The "greater privilege" I referred to earlier is not about everyone automatically being righteous in the Kingdom but about access to salvation, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and eternal life through Christ.

The Matthew 25:31–46 passage doesn’t contradict this. The least in the Kingdom still have the choice to follow Christ’s teachings (caring for the hungry, thirsty, stranger, etc.), and failure to live according to Kingdom principles leads to judgment. This underscores the responsibility tied to the "greater privilege" of being in the Kingdom—greater access to God means greater accountability. In contrast, under the Old Covenant, righteousness was tied to the Law, which could not fully reconcile people to God (Hebrews 10:1-4).

2. Humility and the Least in the Kingdom:
I take your concern seriously and would like to clarify my earlier point. You are right—Jesus does not explicitly equate "the least" in the Kingdom with humility in Matthew 11:11 or Matthew 25. However, humility is a recurring Kingdom principle. While my earlier association may have been an interpretive bridge rather than a direct statement, it reflects the broader teachings of Jesus about the values of His Kingdom (e.g., Matthew 5:3–5, Matthew 18:4).

John the Baptist was "great" because of his role in preparing the way for the Messiah. However, even the "least" in the Kingdom, who partake in the fullness of God’s grace and live according to Jesus’ teachings, have access to something far greater—eternal life through Christ. Those who reject this gift, however, face eternal consequences, as described in Matthew 25.

The summary of all is that the "greater privilege" refers to access to the grace, reconciliation, and eternal life offered in Christ—a privilege unmatched in the Old Covenant. However, this privilege demands accountability, which Jesus makes clear in His teachings.

Thank you and good night.

gohf:
first of, Matthew 11:27 doesn't call Jesus God, it only reaffirms that only through Jesus do we gain full knowledge of the Father, not shadows like through the scriptures, John.1.18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
John.6.46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.

When you say, "the divine nature of Christ establishes Him as God." Does that also mean that every thing or everyone who has the divine nature is also God?

But that is wrong because that is not scripturally nor is it the gospel.


John 1:1 in Greek it is theos en ho logos
God's in the word is the direct translation of that phrase, which can also be said as God's word, the word was God's. But then taking the common wrong translation of calling "the word was God" what this mean it the word WAS God and not is God.

In your number 5, you wrote "Jesus is unchanging, being the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:" so does that mean Jesus who you understand was God, was also God when he died on the cross. So God died?

But God doesn't not change so you cannot say He became a man can you?

Do you understand when Paul writes this: Rom.3.30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

Let me mainly use the verses you have quoted

Phil.2.6 Who, being in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

Jesus did not consider himself God though he had God's nature, that's the kind of mindset we should have.

According to you, "1. Eternal existence: Jesus has always existed, having no beginning or end. ( John 1:1-3, ...)", you can also call the heavens and the earth gods as well since they were also from the beginning.

Then you said, 2. Omnipotent: Jesus possesses all power and authority being able to accomplish anything He desires ( Matthew 28:18, Revelation 19:6).

Whatever power and authority Jesus has was given to him by God

Matt.28.18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. (NKJV)

What about power and authority beyond heavens?

Why did you quote Rev 19:6 when it is God who is mentioned there?

Rev.19.4 - Then the twenty-four elders and the four living beings fell down and worshiped God, who was sitting on the throne. [/b]They cried out, "Amen! Hallelujah!"
Rev.19.5 - And from the throne came a voice that said, "[b]Praise our God, all his servants, from the least to the greatest, all who fear him."
Rev.19.6 - Then I heard again what sounded like the shout of a huge crowd, or the roar of mighty ocean waves, or the crash of loud thunder: "Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns.

Almighty is same with Omnipotent, and only God is Almighty.

Omniscience : Jesus has complete knowledge and understanding, knowing all things past, present and future (John 16:30, Colossians 2:3).

Notice the difference between you and the disciples

John.16.30 Now we understand that you know everything and don't need anyone to tell you anything. From this we believe that you came from God."

Mark.13.32 "However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows. (ALL)

Col.2.2 - My goal is that they will be encouraged and knit together by strong ties of love. I want them to have full confidence because they have complete understanding of God's secret plan, which is Christ himself - In him lie hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

He is God's word and message to us.

Then you wrote "Omnipresent: Jesus is present everywhere being able to be with all people at all time Matthew 18:20, Ephesians 4:6)."
Matt.18.20 For where two or three gather together because they are mine, I am there among them."

Jesus isn't there physically

And like you quoted
Eph.4.6 and there is only one God and Father, who is over us all and in us all and living through us all.

Jesus said in John.14.23 Jesus replied, "All those who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and live with them.

Immutable: Jesus is unchanging, being the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:
If indeed you believe this, then believe Jesus came as a man, and is sill the same man who obeyed God completely

Rom.5.17 The sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to rule over us, but all who receive God's wonderful, gracious gift of righteousness will live in triumph over sin and death through this one man, Jesus Christ.


Yet the author of Hebrews never calls Jesus God, but the son of God.

Heb.4.14 - That is why we have a great High Priest who has gone to heaven, Jesus the Son of God. Let us cling to him and never stop trusting him.
Heb.4.15 - This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he faced all of the same temptations we do, yet he did not sin.

Jas.1.13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful comment. It’s clear you’ve deeply studied Scripture, and I appreciate the opportunity to engage in this discussion. Let’s explore some of the points you’ve raised.

1. Mark 13:32 - The Son does not know the day or hour
This verse highlights the mystery of the incarnation. When Jesus became man, He willingly limited certain aspects of His divine knowledge to fulfill His mission on earth (Philippians 2:6-. This doesn’t negate His divinity but underscores His humility in taking on human nature while still being fully God (Colossians 2:9).


2. Omnipresence and Matthew 18:20
Jesus' omnipresence doesn’t mean He’s physically present everywhere but rather spiritually present, as He affirmed after His resurrection in Matthew 28:20: “I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Ephesians 4:6 points to God’s presence in all things, which is consistent with Jesus’ divine nature as part of the Trinity.


3. Immutable Nature of Christ
Hebrews 13:8 declares, “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.” This refers to His unchanging divine nature. While He came as a man and experienced human limitations, His eternal divine essence remained constant. Jesus being tempted (Hebrews 4:15) and yet without sin demonstrates His perfection and ability to sympathize with humanity, but it doesn’t diminish His divinity.

4. Jesus as the Son of God
Yes, Scripture repeatedly refers to Jesus as the Son of God, which reflects His unique relationship with the Father. However, this title doesn’t deny His divinity. In John 5:18, the Jews understood that by calling God His Father, Jesus was “making Himself equal with God.” Furthermore, Hebrews 1:8 explicitly calls Jesus God: “But of the Son, He says, ‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.’”

5. James 1:13 - God cannot be tempted
This verse refers to God in His divine essence, which cannot be tempted. However, Jesus, in His humanity, experienced temptation (Hebrews 4:15) but did not sin. This dual nature—fully God and fully man—is central to Christian theology (John 1:14).

6. Romans 5:17 - Jesus as the one man
Jesus indeed came as a man to redeem humanity, succeeding where Adam failed. However, this doesn’t negate His divinity. Philippians 2:6-7 explains that Jesus, though in the form of God, took on the form of a servant, being made in human likeness. His humanity was necessary for His role as the perfect mediator and High Priest (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 9:15).

Thank you for sharing these verses, and I hope this response helps clarify these theological points.

Kobojunkie:
Stop with the desperate attempts to derail abeg and focus!

How could Jesus Christ of Israel have, according to you, ultimately granted the woman what you pretended he did without essentially doing two things that are written in that book that God can never do — God is not a man that He should change His mind regarding His decrees, neither is He the son of man that he should lie?

Note: The text instead says that Jesus Christ healed the woman's daughter, not grant her the mercy of David —Eternal Salvation—which she had originally asked for. But you somehow pretend that the healing of her daughter is the same. Why?

The interaction with the Canaanite woman in Matthew 15:21–28 deserves careful examination. Jesus’ initial response highlights His mission’s focus on Israel, but her persistent faith becomes a turning point. When Jesus heals her daughter, it demonstrates His compassion and willingness to respond to faith—even from someone outside Israel. This act doesn't contradict God's unchanging nature but instead reveals the unfolding of His plan: that salvation would begin with Israel and then extend to all nations (Romans 1:16, Isaiah 49:6).

You’re correct that the text specifies the healing of her daughter, not explicitly granting eternal salvation. However, this encounter symbolizes a broader truth: that God’s mercy and grace are accessible to anyone who approaches Him with faith, regardless of their lineage. The healing is significant because it reflects the inclusivity of Jesus’ ministry, a theme carried throughout the New Testament.

Claiming this incident represents a "change of mind" misunderstands God’s eternal plan. The outreach to the Gentiles was always part of God’s design, and this event foreshadows that broader mission, fulfilled later through Jesus’ Great Commission (Matthew 28:19). It’s not about pretending healing equals salvation—it’s about recognizing the bigger picture of faith and grace in Jesus’ ministry.

Kobojunkie:
Not holding brief for anyone here but I see you making an interesting claim there that the same Jesus Christ of Israel is written to have declared that many of the least of these — in the Kingdom of God — would end up in the place of eternal damnation - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46. How is that a greater privilege by your definition than the Old Covenant death which only had them returning back to dust in the grave?

2. The least are those who are humble in the Kingdom of the God of Israel. Where did you get that assertion of yours from since Jesus Christ never made that claim regarding them in all of His Gospel? 🤔

1. The passage you reference (Matthew 25:31–46) speaks about the judgment of the nations, where the "sheep" (righteous) inherit eternal life and the "goats" (unrighteous) face eternal punishment. The key distinction here is the introduction of eternal consequences in the New Covenant, compared to the Old Covenant, where death was often seen as returning to dust without the same emphasis on eternal judgment. The "greater privilege" of the New Covenant lies not in the risk of eternal damnation but in the availability of eternal life and reconciliation with God through Jesus Christ. It’s about the transformative grace now offered, which wasn’t fully accessible under the Old Covenant.


2. I understand your skepticism about linking humility to "the least." While Jesus didn’t explicitly define "the least" as the humble in every instance, His teachings often elevate humility as a key trait in the Kingdom of God. For example:

In Matthew 18:4, Jesus says, "Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven."

In Matthew 23:11–12, He teaches that "The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted."


While these passages don’t directly equate humility with "the least," they show that humility is a recurring theme in Jesus’ description of greatness in His Kingdom. This is why I associate the "least" with those who exhibit humility.

Kobojunkie:
1. If according to you, Jesus Christ of Israel changed His mind later on after Jesus Christ of Israel is reported to have rejected a Canaanite woman who had asked Him to extend towards her the same mercy of David His Father —YHWH — sent Him to deliver only to the lost sheep of Israel, what you are invariably declaring to all here is that Jesus Christ of Israel lied to the Canaanite woman and His followers of course. Also what you declare boldly here is that Jesus Christ of Israel along with His Father who named Himself God of Israel were both liars. 🤔

The same book states that God --YHWH -- is not a man that He should change His mind regarding His Law neither is He a son of man that He should lie. But clearly, your particular God not only changes his mind but is also capable of lying meaning he cannot be YHWH or Jesus Christ, the Law sent by Him.🤔

2. These are nonsense claims you made regarding the followers of Jesus Christ, all of whom lived during the first century, the period that was within 40 years of the death of Jesus Christ of Israel and right before the destruction of Jerusalem and the nation of Judea. You Christians completely reject what the declarations made by their master but somehow we are to believe that you have an understanding of what they thought, ideas that were based on what their master taught to them? Nonsense! 🙄

---

✹By the way, the term gentile, right from its very first use in the book of Genesis 10, is used to refer to people who are all members of the same bloodline aka family.
IT was first used about the family of Japheth, I believe he was the father of the Arabs. And was later on used about the family of Jacob — meaning those who are of the bloodline of Jacob just as YHWH made clear through His Prophets.

It seems there’s some misunderstanding about the nature of Jesus’ mission and His interaction with the Canaanite woman. In Matthew 15:21–28, while Jesus initially states, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel,” He ultimately grants the Canaanite woman’s request because of her faith, saying, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” This shows that His mission, while initially focused on Israel, always included a broader scope—revealing that God’s mercy and salvation extend to all who believe.

Regarding God’s nature, Numbers 23:19 indeed says God does not lie or change His mind. Jesus' actions don’t contradict this; rather, they reveal the fulfillment of a greater plan. The shift in scope—from Israel to all nations—was always part of the plan, as evidenced by prophecies like Isaiah 49:6, which states the Messiah would be a “light to the Gentiles” and bring salvation to the ends of the earth.

Apostle Paul, for example, was a devout Jew and follower of Jesus who preached extensively to non-Jews, as reflected in his letters. This wasn’t a rejection of Jesus’ teachings but rather the fulfillment of His command to bring the gospel to all nations (Matthew 28:19).

It’s okay to have questions and debates about Scripture, but dismissing others’ perspectives as “nonsense” doesn’t help anyone grow. Let’s engage respectfully and focus on understanding the bigger picture.