₦airaland Forum

gohf:
you agree that faith leads to salvation
so which is the gift faith or salvation

The entire process of salvation is God’s gift, which includes grace, faith, and being saved. Both salvation and faith are gifts from God.

delkuf:
you are wrong sir. Everlasting life and eternal life are not the same biblical. The English dictionary can define them to have the same meaning but in the Bible they are two very different thing. Am not talking about Greek here. Is like saying because In English it is define the same so they are the same. I will just give you two clue. I don't want to go too deep in this.
No 1 clue is that dont you think that the Bible will not intentionally use the same words one verses apart. Why will the Bible say eternal life in verse 15 and say everlasting life in verse 16. If you are a good student of the Bible, you will know that it is strange for it to be written like that. There is something God want us to know and is our duty to find out.
2 clue is in verse 14. If you want to know the difference between everlasting life and eternal life, understand what the Bible is saying in verse 14. The beauty of us as a Christian is what is understanding what verse 14 says and the difference between everlasting life and eternal life.
Like I said I don't want to go too deep into this. It is a journey of our Christian life. Not some things I can just be explaining to in few line here.

It seems like you want to emphasize your point even when the Bible itself is silent on the matter. You can’t expect me to ignore the original language of the Bible and still accept your interpretation.

I have six different Bible translations, and only the KJV uses "everlasting life" in John 3:16, while the others say "eternal life." Are you suggesting that the translators who used "eternal life" got it wrong or weren’t good students of the Bible?

My brother, there is no hidden meaning in Scripture—"eternal life" and "everlasting life" mean the same thing.

delkuf:
how do you mean that faith is God given

When I say "Faith is God-given," I mean that true, saving faith is not something we generate on our own but is enabled by God's grace.

Let me buttress this biblically;

1. Faith Comes from Hearing God’s Word

“Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.” (Romans 10:17)

This means faith is initiated by God’s revelation—we believe because God has spoken.

2. Faith Is a Gift from God

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is the gift of God.” (Ephesians 2:

The entire process of salvation, including the faith to believe, comes from God, not human effort.

delkuf:
sir is John 3:15 not John 3:16. John 3:16 says everlasting life. And biblical, everlasting life is different from eternal life

The terms eternal life and everlasting life mean the same thing in biblical context. However, some distinctions can be noted:

[
Eternal life Focuses more on the quality of life—a life that comes from God, beginning at salvation and continuing forever (John 17:3: "Now this is eternal life: that they know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.".
While Everlasting life – emphasize the duration—life that never ends.

But since the original Greek uses the same phrase for both, the meaning remains the same.

gohf:
James 2:17 you are mixing faith and salvation again. In Ephesians Paul already clarified that faith is the process, through faith and he doesn't refer to salvation as the process because it is the goal that we are saved. It is because the faith required for us to be saved comes from God not from ourselves that makes faith in Jesus whom God sends to us, the gift. Paul wrote this is faith, that we don't think who will send Jesus to us or bring him out from the grave but God has done all that, that we believe what God has done and live by it.

While our relationship with God is being restored through the reconciliation brought by Jesus Christ our way to God. Our full transformation occurs only after we have left his world, as this present body cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and it is not his flesh that is saved but our souls.

I'm not mixing faith and salvation but emphasizing that faith leads to salvation.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)

Faith is God-given, not something we generate on our own. We believe in what God has done through Christ, and that faith leads to salvation.

Meanwhile James does not contradict Paul but highlights that true faith produces works as evidence of salvation:

gohf:
now from 1 Corinthians 1:18 and Romans 5:9-10 that you quoted we can see the agreement with John 3:16 that salvation is the goal.

Now the basis of the question was on you previously suggesting that salvation is the means of attaining eternal life. But one understands that salvation is eternal life, one would know it is impossible to perish when you have been saved. It shows it as an end goal. Like you quoted John.10.28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them away from me,... and also Matt 7:21-23 of those who confess but do not obey God, would not be saved. So it stands to reason that salvation is attainable.

Good works are actually an evidence of faith which results to salvation for those who please God.

I see your point, and I agree that salvation is attainable and secure in Christ (John 10:28). However, while salvation includes eternal life, the ultimate goal is not just receiving eternal life but being fully restored to perfect fellowship with God (Revelation 21:3-4) and conformed to Christ’s image (Romans 8:29).

Salvation is both a gift received and a journey of transformation. Those who are truly saved will bear fruit, not as a means to earn salvation but as evidence of genuine faith (Ephesians 2:10, James 2:17).

gohf:
before I give a detailed response to this. Are you now saying that Salvation and eternal life are not two different things anymore but that eternal life is in salvation and not the goal of salvation?

Salvation and eternal life are not separate; rather, eternal life is an essential part of salvation, not just its ultimate goal and I don’t believe I ever implied otherwise, Mind you the ultimate goal of salvation is not just receiving eternal life but being fully united with God, transformed into the image of Christ, and dwelling with Him forever.

When a person is saved, they immediately receive eternal life (John 3:16, John 5:24). However, the full experience of eternal life will be realized in the future when we are glorified with Christ (Romans 8:30, Philippians 3:20-21).

Also, I’d like to emphasize this: "Someone who merely claims to be saved but does not bear fruit may not truly be saved."

gohf:
so you are saying salvation is both a free gift and what you work for? Or you are saying it's just a gift and the beginning of a journey rather than a final goal. If it's the later then your answer to my question is that salvation is not the goal but a means to an end, the end being eternal life.


You defined salvation as being saved from sin and given eternal life but then you say salvation is a means to an end which is eternal life. So you are saying the person didn't receive eternal life when they received salvation.. Right?

Now the verses you quoted

John.3.16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

This verse doesn't differentiate salvation from eternal life like you did. Neither Rom.8.29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Then you explain "work out" in Philippians 2:12 to mean to live in it, to grow in it. The Greek word used there is "katergazesthe" to effect by labor, to achieve. In that very verse and even the next on, Paul writes about obedience which is brought about by God enabling us to obey Him.

According to your explanation salvation means you are already a citizen of God's kingdom, why does Paul then tell them to achieve it by obeying God.


How does one "live out salvation" if it's not to attain it through obedience to God?

Remember the question is if salvation is a free gift why should a person "live it out". Either you are saying a person can be saved and not attain eternal life, or that salvation is free but you have to work for eternal life, so you can be saved and still perish.

Salvation is not merely a means to an end; it includes eternal life but also leads to its full realization in the future.

According to Ephesians 2:8-9, salvation is 100% a free gift—not something we earn. However, receiving salvation marks the start of a lifelong journey, not just a one-time event. The Bible speaks of salvation in different tenses:

Past: "You have been saved" (Ephesians 2: – Justification (declared righteous).

Present: "You are being saved" (1 Corinthians 1:18) – Sanctification (growing in holiness).

Future: "You will be saved" (Romans 5:9-10) – Glorification (final transformation).


Thus, while we don’t work for salvation, we are called to work out our salvation (Philippians 2:12) because God is actively working in us (Philippians 2:13).

You also asked that can Someone Be Saved and Still Perish?

No. If salvation is a gift from God and is received by faith, a truly saved person will not perish (John 10:28). However, someone who merely claims to be saved but does not bear fruit may not truly be saved (Matthew 7:21-23).

Salvation results in a transformed life, but good works are the evidence of salvation, not the requirement for it (Ephesians 2:10).

gohf:
so are you saying that salvation is a means to an end and not the end or goal itself?

Salvation is both a gift and the beginning of a journey rather than just the final goal.

When we receive salvation, we are saved from sin and given eternal life (John 3:16), but that’s not the end of the story. Salvation is also a process of transformation where we grow in Christ, becoming more like Him (Romans 8:29). This is why Philippians 2:12 tells us to “work out” our salvation—not to earn it, but to live it out and grow in it.

The ultimate goal is eternal life with God, but salvation is the doorway into that life. It’s like being given citizenship in a new country—you receive it freely, but now you must learn its culture, laws, and way of life.

So, in a way, salvation is not just the end goal; it is the beginning of a lifelong journey of faith, leading to our final glorification with Christ (Philippians 3:20-21).

gohf:
Eph.2.8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (NKJV)

Phil.2.12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. (NKJV)

Sir, I read this verses and I have a question how can salvation be a gift and I have to work my salvation out with fear and trembling?

Salvation is a free gift from God, not something we earn. However, it is our responsibility to respond to it by embracing and living it out. This response is what it means to "work out our salvation."

Think of it like receiving a free gym membership—you didn’t pay for it, but to benefit from it, you need to exercise. Your effort doesn’t earn the membership, but it helps you grow stronger. In the same way, while salvation is a gift, our obedience and spiritual growth enable us to fully experience its transforming power.

Kobojunkie:
Stop regurgitating what is an obvious religious lie that you and many billions of you non-Israelites have been fed abeg!

2. Absolutely none of the verses you quoted support this ridiculous lie religion has traded for over 1600 years now. It is time you drop the delusion and salvage whatever is left of your life.

3. The same verses you quoted serve as an indictment against you and your religious lies though.

It's clear that you lack understanding of Scripture and simply choose to contribute negatively without adding any meaningful insight.

Kobojunkie:
According to the books of the Gospel, the same Jesus Christ equally made clear through direct word — figures of speech included — that He was sent by His Father only to the bloodline of Jacob.

⚉ In John 6 vs 37-38, Jesus Christ proclaimed, "The Father gives me my people. Every one of them will come to me. I will always accept them. I came down from heaven to do what God wants, not what I want." This statement invariably means Jesus Christ of Israel had no choice in picking the people that would be His; His Father is the one who made the decision as far as the people Jesus Christ was sent.
⚉ In Matthew 15 vs 20, Jesus Christ announced that He was sent by His Father only to the Lost Sheep of Israel— the bloodline of Jacob. By this, He officially declared Himself savior to the race of Israelites and not of any other race — Jesus Christ of Israel.
⚉ In John 3 vs 14 - 18, we learn from Jesus Christ of Israel that the people whom His Father loves — YHWH(God of Israel) were the very same people whom Moses, who was sent before Him, raised the Serpent in the desert to save. He went on to describe them as " the World"(a metonymy, a figure of speech, used as a reference to the condemned of Israel), which God loved.
⚉ In Matthew 7 vs. 6, Jesus Christ of Israel openly warned His followers against giving what is Holy to the dogs — non-Israelites— declaring the dogs incapable of handling that which is Holy — they are unqualified to do so.
⚉ In Matthew 10 vs. 1 - 6, when Jesus Christ of Israel had the opportunity to send His disciples out to announce the Kingdom of God, He sent them only to the Israelites.
⚉ Then, in Matthew 28 vs. 16-20 and Mark 16 s 15 - 18, applying the same metonymy he had earlier used, Jesus Christ of Israel dispersed His followers into the World which He had previously described to His followers.
⚉ To seal it all, in Luke 24, Jesus Christ proclaimed that His Word is Everlasting meaning it can never be changed ---- not by Him, or any human being even after He is dead and gone.

YHWH bestowed on Himself the title of "God of Israel", and this as He gave the name "Israel" only to the man named Jacob. Jesus Christ of Israel, himself a descendant of the bloodline of Jacob who is called Israel, NEVER indicated that He was sent to or came to save non-Israelites. The lie that He did was fabricated entirely by those of the religions of Christianity and Islam.

Jesus' initial focus was on Israel, fulfilling God’s covenant with them first. However, His mission was always to bring salvation to the entire world. The story of the Canaanite woman actually demonstrates that faith in Christ is what grants access to God's grace, regardless of ethnicity.
His mission was always intended to extend beyond Israel. Consider these verses:

1. John 3:16 – “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

2. Matthew 28:19 – “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations...” (The Great Commission)

3. Acts 1:8 – Jesus tells His disciples they will be His witnesses “in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

4. Isaiah 49:6 (a prophecy about the Messiah) – “I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”

Unless you have any counterarguments against the scriptural verses above, Jesus' mission to Israel was directly tied to fulfilling God's covenant, as clearly stated in Scripture.

Righthussle:
My own is simple, they say it's the curse the bible god placed on Eve that makes women feel pain and even die during childbirth and fortunately Jesus later came to die for that sin that brought the curse, why is the curse still there ? The day the bible god truly forgives and removes the curse that's the day I'll become a Christian.

God did not directly curse Adam and Eve but declared judgments as a consequence of their sin. He never explicitly said, "I curse you" to them; instead, He described the hardships they would endure due to their disobedience.

MaxInDHouse:
Does the scriptures teaches that fellow believers can fight against one another due to racial issues?

Please adhere to correction; your question is insignificant to the subject matter.

MaxInDHouse:
Study the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses you will say NO.
Was Job living in sin before Satan touched him? Job 2:6-8
When you refuse to learn but insist that you want to teach this is the result!

Job’s suffering was a test allowed by God and initiated by Satan, not a punishment for sin. That much is clear. But you engaging in unnecessary arguments only shifts focus away from the truth stated by Op.

One does not need to belong to Jehoval witness to understand Scripture—the message is plain to those who seek truth with an open heart.

Psalm 107:17 says: "Fools, because of their transgression, and because of their iniquities, were afflicted."

While not all affliction comes from personal sin, sin is still the root of all suffering in the world.

Opposing this truth just to appear knowledgeable is missing the real message. The focus should always remain on what Scripture actually teaches.

We have one message, not multiple messages, and that message is Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:2 (NKJV):
"For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified."

The church’s primary focus must be Christ and His redemptive work, not miracles, prosperity, or motivational teachings.

Faith should rest on God’s power and truth, not on emotionalism or intellectual arguments.

True wisdom and transformation come through the message of the cross, not through human philosophies.

As believers, we are not called to impress people with philosophy, rhetoric, or personal opinions. Our sole focus is preaching Jesus Christ, the crucified Savior.

God bless you all!!

StillDtruth:
True!

I did not know this but what I do know is that a person is supposed to change his own evil spirit into a goodly and right spirit, then The Holy Spirit, Jesus and His Father will come and dwell with him as per John 14:23

I'm a bit confused—could you clarify? Can an evil spirit be transformed into a good and righteous spirit? The Bible says that a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

Righthussle:
Una still dey read this story book?

This message/topic is for those whom it has been given to know the mystery of the Kingdom of God (Mark 4:11). Thank you.

Today, many Christians in various denominations pray and even fast to receive the Holy Spirit. However, there is no record of this practice in the early church. Could this be considered a doctrinal misconception, or is it simply a different approach?

In the Bible, people did not pray to receive the Holy Ghost in the sense of begging for Him; rather, they received Him through faith, obedience, and divine appointment. Let's examine how the apostles and others received the Holy Spirit:

1. The Apostles at Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4)

The apostles did not specifically pray to receive the Holy Spirit. Jesus had already promised them that the Holy Spirit would come (Acts 1:4-5, . They were waiting in Jerusalem in obedience, and on the day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit came upon them suddenly as they were gathered.

2. The Samaritans (Acts 8:14-17)

After Philip preached in Samaria, people believed in Jesus and were baptized. However, they did not receive the Holy Spirit immediately. The apostles Peter and John prayed for them and laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

3. Saul (Paul) (Acts 9:17-18)

After Saul's encounter with Jesus, Ananias laid hands on him, and he received the Holy Spirit. There is no record of Saul (Paul) praying to receive the Holy Spirit.

4. Cornelius and His Household (Acts 10:44-46)

Cornelius and his household received the Holy Spirit while Peter was still preaching. They did not pray for it; the Holy Spirit came upon them as they believed the gospel.

5. The Disciples in Ephesus (Acts 19:1-6)

Paul met some disciples who had only received John’s baptism. After Paul explained Christ to them, they were baptized in Jesus’ name, and when Paul laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them.

Conclusion

People in the Bible did not have to pray or beg to receive the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was given:

By God's promise (Acts 2:38-39)

Through laying on of hands in some cases (Acts 8:17, Acts 19:6)

By hearing and believing the gospel (Acts 10:44)

StillDtruth:
Legalistic refers to man made laws and man's commands

So, being God Law fully minded means that you are doing what God and Christ Commanded which is "keep my commandments".

All these is because people are not taking account that Paul was talking to pagans
at a time when God and His Commandments was not known outside Isreal.

Legalism is not necessarily about man-made laws. The children of Israel were given the commandments, and it was mandatory for them to obey all of them, whether convenient or not. However, Christ emphasized that the Sabbath was created for man's benefit, not as a burden (Mark 2:27), as He sought to correct the Pharisees' legalistic interpretation. I never mentioned Paul in my discussion, so he is not relevant here.

bingbagbo:
Intriguing question.

The Sabbath was one of 10 commandments The Lord gave the Israelites through Moses (Exodus 20).

The Sabbath denoted rest from work on the seventh day; many believe the seventh day is Saturday (I am not contesting this belief).

Even under the dispensation of The Law (Moses), the Priests were exempted from the Sabbath (Matthew 12:5).

Moreover, the born-again is not under the dispensation of the law and prophets, he is under the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). The law and the prophets was until John The Baptist (Matthew 11:13).

Now, if even priests under the old covenants profaned the Sabbath and yet were blameless according to Matthew (12:5) how much more blameless is the born-again in regard to the Sabbath, he being a priest and a king in Christ (Revelations 1:6; Revelations 5:10).

The Sabbath was a typology of rest in Christ; to the born-again everyday is a Sabbath - rest in Christ. The born again is free to work and do all things all day including the seventh day provided these activities/works are not sinful.

The Lord Jesus himself who is our Standard and Lord of the Sabbath worked on the Sabbath (Matthew 12:9-15).

The Sabbath was a shadow of the real substance which is Christ Jesus (Colossians 2:17) - Now we have Christ Jesus (the substance and reality), why do you want to hold on to a shadow?

Why do you keep gazing at the photo of your spouse when your spouse is right with you?

Do you engage in any activity/work at all on Saturdays as a sabbatarian ?

Matthew 12:11
Then He (Jesus) said to them, “What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out?

I come in peace

Whether one observes a Sabbath day or sees every day as a Sabbath in Christ, the key is resting in Him rather than legalistic rule-keeping.


Jesus did not abolish it but clarified its purpose, emphasizing mercy and necessity over legalism.

H

GardenOfGod:
I have a question please...
If I believe with all my heart the Lord Jesus Christ with all my heart, and am in my church very active in all activities BUT I have a girlfriend where we commit fornication.... Will I still make heaven because I have believed the Lord?

The Bible teaches that salvation comes through faith in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9), but true faith is also accompanied by repentance and a transformed life (2 Corinthians 5:17, James 2:17).

Fornication is considered a sin in Scripture (1 Corinthians 6:18-20), and while believers may struggle with sin, a sincere relationship with Christ should lead to conviction, repentance, and a desire to turn away from sinful habits (1 John 1:9). God’s grace is abundant, but it is not a license to continue in sin (Romans 6:1-2).

The key is not just believing but allowing that belief to change your heart and actions. If you are struggling with this sin, seek God’s help through prayer, accountability, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Heaven is not about perfect actions, but about a heart truly surrendered to Christ, striving to live in obedience to Him.

Kobojunkie:
What you are are invariably saying is that Jesus Christ of Israel must have lied in that passage, right?!

When people fail to rightly divide the word of truth, they often make points like this—thinking they know, yet knowing nothing. I’ve engaged with you here on Nairaland, and[b] I can confidently say you are an enemy of the cross[/b]. I will always oppose you. When you have no idea/knowledge about something, your contributions will never be meaningful.

Kobojunkie:
Read what Jesus Christ said of them in Matthew 7 vs 21 - 23. Jesus Christ says He never knew them but religion of Christianity loves them.

Oga, do you even understand what you're quoting, or are you just contributing as usual—adding nothing meaningful and only causing distractions?

Most committed believers face challenges in their walk with God. These struggles can weaken faith, create spiritual dryness, and hinder growth. Recognizing these struggles and addressing them through God's Word can lead to renewal and deeper intimacy with Him.

1. Inconsistent Prayer and Bible Study (Luke 18:1, Psalm 119:105)

Struggling to maintain a consistent habit of prayer and reading Scripture can lead to spiritual dryness and distance from God.

2. Lack of Love and Compassion (1 John 4:20, Matthew 22:39)

Holding grudges, being indifferent toward others, or struggling to love people unconditionally contradicts God’s command to love our neighbors.

3. Spiritual Pride and Self-Righteousness (Luke 18:11-14, Proverbs 16:18)

Thinking of oneself as spiritually superior can lead to a judgmental attitude rather than humility and grace toward others.

4. Doubt and Unbelief (Mark 9:24, James 1:6)

Struggling with doubts about God's promises, His plan, or even His existence can create uncertainty and fear in a believer’s heart.

5. Fear and Anxiety (Philippians 4:6-7, Matthew 6:25-34)

Allowing worry and fear to take control instead of trusting in God's provision and sovereignty can weaken faith.

6. Struggling with Sinful Habits (Romans 7:15-25, Galatians 5:17)

Falling into repetitive sins or addictive behaviors can bring guilt and shame, making it harder to feel close to God.

7. Feeling Spiritually Dry or Disconnected (Psalm 42:1-2, Revelation 2:4)

Going through seasons where God feels distant or worship feels empty can discourage believers and make them question their faith.

8. Battling Temptation (1 Corinthians 10:13, James 1:14-15)

Facing constant temptations in areas like lust, greed, or anger can lead to frustration and spiritual struggles.

9. Lack of Commitment to Church and Fellowship (Hebrews 10:25, Acts 2:42)

Avoiding church, neglecting Christian community, or isolating oneself from fellow believers can weaken spiritual strength.

10. Struggling to Forgive (Ephesians 4:31-32, Matthew 6:14-15)

Holding onto past hurts and refusing to forgive can harden the heart and hinder one's relationship with God.

Encouragement for Overcoming Spiritual Struggles

1. Stay rooted in God’s Word (Psalm 119:11).

2. Pray even when it’s hard (1 Thessalonians 5:16-18).

3. Seek godly accountability and fellowship (Ecclesiastes 4:9-10).

4. Trust in God’s grace and strength (2 Corinthians 12:9).

5. Remember that God is always near (Deuteronomy 31:.

tete7000:
If God is in hell, why is he'll in total darkness? And God omnipresent isn't that God is everywhere, it is that God can be in multiple places simultaneously.

Hell is described as a place of darkness, not because God is absent, but because it is a place of separation from His goodness and glory. God's omnipresence means He sustains all things, but His presence is experienced differently depending on the place and purpose. In heaven, His presence is one of love and communion; in hell, it is one of judgment. Darkness in hell signifies the absence of His grace, not His complete absence.

tete7000:
If God exists in hell, there won't be pain and sorrow there, God's presencevis comforting, it is absence that brings pain and sorrow. Languishing in agony on the cross, Christ cried out in pain "My God, my God why have you forsaken me?". At that instant Christ was abandoned by God because he bore the weight of men's sins and God cannot behold sin". God serves his justice by departing from man, just like when the scripture says that the spirit of God departed from Saul. While crying for mercy in Ps.51, David said "Cast me not away from your presence O Lord, take not your holy Spirit from me". Hell is dark because God who is light is absent from there. You can contend it if you like..

Try to understand this—God’s omnipresence means He exists even in hell, but His presence there is one of judgment rather than comfort. [/b]You cannot define Him from just one point of view; [b]He is the Creator of all things. [/b]Now, let’s look at Scripture:

Revelation 14:10 speaks of torment "in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb," suggesting that God's justice is actively present in hell. Similarly, [b]Psalm 139:8 states, "If I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there," showing that no place is truly devoid of God.

Rather than hell being a place where God is absent, consider that its torment comes from His presence being experienced in the form of justice rather than peace. This aligns with the truth that God is both love and justice—those who reject Him experience His holiness not as blessing, but as judgment.

Think about it!

tete7000:
Is God present in hell?

He exists everywhere, including hell. However, His presence in hell is not one of blessing or communion but of justice and judgment.

It depends on what aspect of His presence you are referring to.

IYANGBALI:
I was just going through my holy bible some couple of minutes ago,Genesis to be precised and chapter 1 verse 1 says " In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." a question now came to my mind,where was God living before he created heaven,honestly i am not trying to play any pranks here i just want to be enlightened and i would be grateful if anyone out there could help me out.

Before the creation of heaven and earth, God existed in His eternal and infinite nature. He is not confined by space or time, as He is the One who created them. To understand this more fully, let’s examine how the Bible describes His existence in various ways.

1. God Exists Beyond Creation

The Bible makes it clear that God existed before the universe and is not bound by physical space.

Psalm 90:2 – "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God."

Isaiah 57:15 – "For thus says the high and lofty One that inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy."


These verses reveal that God is eternal and exists beyond human understanding of time and space. He inhabits eternity, not a specific location.

2. God Is Spirit (Not Limited by Space)

God’s nature is spiritual, meaning He is not confined to physical dimensions.

John 4:24 – "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."


Since places and physical locations were part of creation, God did not "reside" in a specific place before creation. Instead, He existed in His own divine, infinite being.

3. Heaven Was Created by God (It Is Not His Original "Home"

Heaven, like earth, was created by God and had a beginning.

Genesis 1:1 – "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

Since heaven itself was created, God did not dwell there before its existence. His presence is not dependent on a created place.

4. God’s Presence Fills Everything

Even after creating heaven and earth, God remains limitless and cannot be contained by any space.

Jeremiah 23:24 – "Do I not fill heaven and earth? declares the Lord."

1 Kings 8:27 – "Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you."


God’s presence is everywhere, transcending all space and time. He does not "live" in a particular place but rather fills and sustains all creation.

Kobojunkie:
Asking a question means I am frustrated. You religious folks are the same no matter where you are encountered. 🙄🙄🙄

No matter how bright a light shines, a blind man will still remain blind. Likewise, no matter how much proof is given—even if it's right before your eyes—you still won’t believe. Why chase after shadows when you know deep down that you stand in opposition to the message of the cross?

Kobojunkie:
You have yet to provide proof for your grace thing.

I can tell you're frustrated. Even if I show you proof, it probably wouldn't matter to someone like you. Just relax and find peace.