₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
Before John the baptist and Jesus of Nazareth there was no command that all worshipers must set aside time to go out preaching and teaching so that will be added responsibility for those who are MARRIED!
But if not the God's Kingdom that is at hand preaching and teaching wouldn't be added to family responsibilities.

Do you get it now?
That's what Jesus and Paul are saying!

Get what?

Ogbeni, relax!

I doubt you'll even get married—because these end times are way tougher than Paul's era.

Yinmu.

MaxInDHouse:
If you feel God's word is silent on a topic that could cause confusion then you are not a diligent student of the Bible! 2Timothy 3:16-17

Before Jesus there was no prophet who said people can live without marriage for being worshipers of God it all started when John the baptist and Jesus of Nazareth began saying "God's Kingdom is at hand" {Matthew 3:2; 4:17} both prophets never got married and so when Paul was talking to born again Christians he urged them to remain single like him if they can {1Corinthians 7:8-9} because they are living in the time of the end when they have to struggle in order to do God's will! 1Corinthans 7:32, 33, 38
Ọmọ if you don't know something you shouldn't think everyone else don't know some are more knowledgeable than others!

Fara-bale!

Verse 33: "But a married man has to think about his earthly responsibilities and how to please his wife."

How Does This Relate to the End Times?

Marriage comes with significant responsibilities—providing for a spouse, raising children, and maintaining a household. During times of economic collapse, war, or persecution, these responsibilities become even harder to fulfill. That’s why Paul’s advice in 1 Corinthians 7 is practical—acknowledging the difficulties of managing a household in times of crisis.

When Paul mentioned the "present crisis," he was likely referring to a specific period of hardship in the Roman Empire, possibly persecution, famine, or social unrest. These challenges would naturally make marriage and family life more difficult. His guidance was more practical than prophetic—focused on the immediate struggles of the believers rather than the end times issues.

If Paul had been speaking about the last days, his message would have likely echoed Jesus' warnings in Matthew 24. Instead, his emphasis was on the real-life challenges faced by Christians at that time.

Paul was just offering temporary advice based on the circumstances of that generation.

Explain end time for me sir.....

MaxInDHouse:
It's not their circumstances but the end time that started in the first century.
Getting married will add to the stress the believer will face that's why they were advised to stay unmarried if they can. What they faced back then is much lesser than what this generation is facing!

When the Bible is silent, it's best to remain silent, and when the Bible speaks clearly, we can speak boldly.

You're misinterpreting the scripture—where do you see "end times" mentioned in the text? How are marriage and the end times related? Please rightly divide the word of truth.

Previously, you quoted scripture that had no connection to what Paul was implying, and now you're introducing an unrelated topic again.

MaxInDHouse:
I used the full strength of the scriptures so explain what you mean!

So, do you think Paul was advocating for a celibate life? How does advising believers based on their specific circumstances at that time suddenly become a command for celibacy?

Take Nigeria, for example—there is hardship now. If a pastor advises his congregation not to marry due to the current struggles, does that mean he is preaching celibacy?

It's important to understand why Paul addressed this issue. His advice was given in response to a specific crisis at that time.

As verse 26 states: "Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for you to remain as you are."

MaxInDHouse:
Paul was talking to born again Christians who don't need a wife or husband after their earthly mission {Luke 20:34-36} so according to Jesus they are better of as singles if they can make room for it! Matthew 19:10-12

Misinterpretation!!!

imagrg:
I read this part of the Holy Bible and it kept me in awe:

1 Corinthians 7:27-28 New Century Version (NCV)
If you are not married, do not try to find a wife. But if you decide to marry, you have not sinned. And if a girl who has never married decides to marry, she has not sinned. But those who marry will have trouble in this life, and I want you to be free from trouble.

The question is:
Does God, by this inference discourage marriage union?

What do you say?

NO!!

For a believer in Christ, suffering is often seen as a part of the Christian journey, with deep spiritual meaning and purpose. The Bible teaches that suffering is not meaningless but can serve as a way to grow in faith, develop perseverance, and become more like Christ.
Here are some key aspects of suffering for a believer in Christ:

1. Sharing in Christ’s Suffering

Jesus Himself suffered on the cross, and believers are called to share in His suffering.

Philippians 3:10 – “That I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death.”


2. A Test of Faith

Suffering often tests and strengthens a believer’s faith, leading them to trust God more.

James 1:2-4 – “Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance.”


3. Discipline and Refinement

Sometimes, suffering is a way God disciplines and refines His people, like a father disciplining his children out of love.

Hebrews 12:6 – “Because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”


4. Spiritual Growth and Endurance

Hardships help believers develop character, patience, and a deeper reliance on God.

Romans 5:3-5 – “Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope.”


5. A Means of Glorifying God

When believers endure suffering with faith and perseverance, it brings glory to God and serves as a testimony to others.

1 Peter 4:16 – “Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name.”


6. Hope in Eternal Glory

While suffering exists in this world, believers hold onto the promise that eternal joy in heaven will outweigh any pain they experience now.

2 Corinthians 4:17 – “For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all.”


In summary, suffering for a Christian is not just pain or hardship—it is a tool God uses to refine faith, strengthen character, and prepare believers for eternal glory. It is an opportunity to trust in God's sovereignty and to grow closer to Him.



Strengthen our faith, Lord, and help us to endure hardships with patience and hope. Amen.

gohf:
so real faith leads to works of love (which is obedience) which leads one to salvation.

So here you are agreeing with what James wrote but attempting to change the meaning of the text so that you can be right. Changing the meaning of the text by stating that James is not teaching salvation by works in reference to mean that even though faith which saves is the faith that produces good works of which you had agreed that this is the kind of faith that saves. Watch this, yet you deny that there is no need for any sort of work to result to salvation because you propagate that salvation is for free.

Can such faith, of mere confession, save a man. You answer as stated above is no. Of course it doesn't contradict Paul's writings in Ephesians but contradicts completely your conclusive believe that salvation is free, for Paul wrote grace saves through faith, of which I have clarified already to you that the gift Paul refers to is what God helps us get saved.

Do not forget that you started by stating that salvation is not the goal but the beginning, then later you added that it is also the process even in your attempt to separate salvation and eternal which you later then wrote that eternal life is in salvation. Shattering and scattering the very basis of your belief, as it consistently contradicted the teachings of Jesus I showed to you concerning eternal life.


But note I never said James contradicted Paul, so let me write it clearly for you. That you thankgod89 are the one contradicting them.

You did not explain but you wrote, "James 2:14 is making a strong point: a claim to faith without corresponding actions is useless and cannot save."

So what kind of faith do you teach if you contradict that obedience to God leads to salvation?

I fully affirm what Paul teaches in Ephesians 2:8-9:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

This means salvation is entirely a gift from God, not something we earn through works. However, as Ephesians 2:10 immediately follows, Paul also states:
"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

This confirms that good works are the result of salvation, not the cause of it. Faith saves, but the faith that saves is not without works—it produces obedience.

When James asks, "Can such faith save him?" (James 2:14), he is referring to a dead faith, one that is mere confession without action. James is not saying that works earn salvation, but that true faith results in obedience. This aligns perfectly with what Jesus taught:

"If you love me, keep my commands." (John 14:15)

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father." (Matthew 7:21)


Obedience proves salvation, but it does not cause it.

Do I Contradict Paul and James?

No, because Paul and James are addressing different issues:

Paul argues against works-based righteousness (Romans 3:28).

James argues against empty faith that lacks evidence (James 2:17).


They do not contradict but complement each other—true faith saves, but true faith is always demonstrated by works.

Salvation is free in the sense that we cannot earn it (Romans 6:23). But accepting Christ means submitting to Him as Lord, which naturally results in obedience. A faith that does not obey is not real faith—it is dead (James 2:26).

So, I’m not teaching that obedience is unnecessary. I’m teaching that obedience flows from genuine faith—it is the evidence of salvation, not the requirement for earning it.



Hello, please, I'm tired of this long discussion. If salvation isn't free for you, then good luck. Stop mentioning me in things I've already explained. Even others are questioning your understanding of salvation because your arguments seem strange to them.

You don't give salvation to anyone, so why are you forcing incorrect teachings just to prove a point?

Please, let me be.

gard9ner:
Some believe that once saved, always saved, while others argue that a believer can fall away. Hebrews 6:4-6 warns about those who “were once enlightened” but later fall away. Yet, John 10:28 says no one can snatch believers from Christ’s hand. So, is salvation permanent, or can it be lost through sin and unbelief?

The Bible also speaks of enduring in faith until the end (Matthew 24:13) and warns against backsliding (2 Peter 2:20-22). Some say these verses refer to those who were never truly saved, while others argue they prove a believer can turn away and forfeit salvation. If salvation is eternal, why do scriptures warn about falling away? But if it can be lost, does that mean salvation depends on human effort? What do you think?

This has been one of the biggest theological debates in Christianity, with both sides presenting strong biblical arguments. But what always comes to my mind is this: If someone "falls away," were they ever truly saved (1 John 2:19), or did they genuinely have salvation and later reject it?

1 John 2:19 – "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

I think one can truly be saved but later choose to reject their faith and turn away from Christ. While salvation is a gift from God, He does not force anyone to remain in it. Just as one can freely accept Christ, they can also walk away through persistent unbelief or rebellion. This is why the Bible repeatedly warns about falling away (Hebrews 6:4-6, 2 Peter 2:20-22).

gohf:
you cal his faith "incomplete" can such faith save him?

You are pathetically avoiding the verses I mentioned, let me mention one of them again....

Jas.2.14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?


Can you answer James as well

James is not teaching salvation by works, but rather that works are the evidence of true faith.

James 2:14 is making a strong point: a claim to faith without corresponding actions is useless and cannot save. The implied answer to James' rhetorical question is no—such faith cannot save because it is not real faith.

James is addressing a type of "faith" that is merely intellectual or verbal but lacks obedience and transformation. He is not contradicting Paul’s teaching that salvation is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9).

If salvation were a reward for good works, then Jesus’ death would have been unnecessary and meaningless because we could have earned salvation ourselves. But the truth is, we were helpless in sin, and only through Jesus' death and resurrection can we be saved.

(Romans 5:6-.
[6]For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
[7]For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
[8]But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

orisa37:
GRACE IS THE REWARD OF WORK AND PRAY.

Grace is not a reward; it is a gift.

The Bible teaches that grace is undeserved favor from God, not something we earn through work or prayer.

delkuf:
I know that there are threads concerning this topic but many people are still confused. Especially when some so called Christian are meddling up.


And let's use the thieves that was crucified with Jesus as a case study.
One of the thief if you are Christ save yourself and us but he wasn't justified so he wasn't saved.
The second thief said they are being punished for there sins but Jesus is crucified for the sins of the world. He now Lord remember me in your kingdom. Then Jesus told him today you will be with me in paradise.

What is the difference between the first thief and the second. The first thief if you Christ but he didn't really believe that Jesus is Christ. But the second said we suffering for what we did but Jesus was dying for something he didn't do. He was more or less saying that Jesus came to die for the sins of mankind. So he believed. And he said I want to be where you are. He believe that Jesus was going somewhere. He may not have a clear picture but he knows that he was going somewhere and he want to be where Jesus is. Is this not what we preached. Is this the gospel. That thief was justified by grace. He worked for it. He may have never seen the Lord Jesus. Maybe this is the first time he heard about Jesus but he believed. So salvation comes by grace not work.

The thief couldn’t fast, be baptized, or do good deeds—yet Jesus saved him instantly because of his faith.

Just like Romans 10:9 teaches, the thief was saved by confessing and believing in Jesus, showing that faith alone is enough for salvation

MaxInDHouse:
You are right but the additional great crowd are those that survived Satan's last test only 144,000 will not experience Satan's final test that's what i'm saying!

Where do you get the idea that the 144,000 are completely free from Satan’s final test? Any biblical reference?

Are you suggesting that the great multitude only consists of those who remain faithful after Satan’s final test? If so, how do you interpret Revelation 7:14, which describes them as coming out of the great tribulation?

MaxInDHouse:
So the thief and all those who lived before John the baptist must prove their loyalty to Christ during the 1,000 years of Jesus' reign that's what Jesus meant when he said:

Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is. Matthew 11:11

All those that live before John the baptist like Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Job, David, Elijah, Daniel and others were declared righteous which means they will be resurrected in Paradise but they've not qualified for everlasting life until are taught what Jesus said and put it to practice that is when they can qualify for everlasting life.

For now the only people who are saved are the 144,000 born again Christians who participated in the first resurrection because they are going straight to heaven where Satan can't reach again {Revelations 12:10-12} they got this through laying down their lives for the good news! Revelations 12:11

They will remain forever there like angels {Luke 20:34-36} but those who will inherit everlasting life on earth has the prospect of renovating the earth into a Paradise when all evildoers are gone for good! Psalms 37:9-11

I sense that you may be a Jehovah’s Witness based on your discussion, but I want to clarify that salvation is not limited to just 144,000 people. Revelation 7:9 speaks of "a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, tribe, people, and language," indicating a much larger group of saved individuals.

gohf:
When a person calls the vastiness of testimonies written by the apostles, 'excessive scriptures' that cannot turn their falsehood into the truth, it shows they reject the testimony for their personal believe. When people believe their own teachings against the truth of God, they first start with a conclusion even while accusing others of insisting to be right.

When I say that simply quoting excessive Scriptures cannot turn falsehood into truth, I am not calling Scripture falsehood. Rather, I am addressing your claim that salvation is a reward while using Scripture out of context to support it. Stop misrepresenting my words and portraying me as someone who disrespects the Word of God. If you believe salvation is a reward for good works, that is your view—but to me, it is a distortion of the truth.

MaxInDHouse:
Faith in Jesus has WORKS that has to do with what Jesus taught {James 2:26} so if someone say he believes in Jesus yet had nothing doing to prove it his faith is dead.
Remember the man who came to Jesus to ask of what he must do to be saved Jesus didn't just say "believe in me" because the man already believe that's why he called Jesus 'Lord' kneeling respectfully before Jesus yet Jesus told him what he must do but the man can't do it so do you think this man can be saved? Did he believe in Jesus? If he believes then why did Jesus say the man can't be saved? Luke 18:18-23

So faith in Christ Jesus comes with works of faith that's what Paul meant! Hebrews 10:24

You're absolutely right that faith in Jesus is not just about believing but also about living out that faith through actions. James 2:26 makes it clear: "Faith without works is dead." True faith produces obedience to Christ's teachings.

In Luke 18:18-23, the rich young ruler believed in Jesus enough to seek His guidance, but when Jesus asked him to sell his possessions and follow Him, he couldn't do it. His faith was incomplete because he wasn't willing to act on it. Jesus’ challenge exposed where his true trust was—his wealth, not God.

In Hebrews 10:24, Paul urges believers to "spur one another on toward love and good deeds." Faith is demonstrated through love, obedience, and good works—not to earn salvation, but as evidence of genuine trust in Christ.

MaxInDHouse:
This is what caused the contradiction for many Bible readers.

"Truly i tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise"

Jesus died and for three days he remained in his grave so it's not that day but the promised was sealed that day.
Secondly salvation is only for those that PRACTICE what Jesus taught and since the thief never had the opportunity to prove faithful to Christ through actions he can't be saved yet.
So the 1,000 years reign of Christ on Paradise Earth is where this thief will be opportuned to prove faithful to Christ when Christians will present what Jesus taught fully to the thief his salvation hings on what he does during that time because Satan will be let loosed to midlead people in Paradise after that 1,000 years that is where the thief will prove his loyalty to Christ. He must first get baptize then practice what Jesus taught so by the time Satan is destroyed he will have eternal life along with other survivors, what he got from Jesus is a Visa for resurrection not salvation.

What do you mean by contradiction? Are you saying you know more than the translators? You’re adding punctuation to fit your own interpretation, Very good!

If salvation is only for those who practice what Jesus taught, then what exactly is salvation? Someone said it’s a reward, but I'm going that way.

My brother, salvation comes by grace through faith

Salvation is not solely for those who practice what Jesus taught. Salvation is a gift of God's grace, received through faith in Jesus Christ. However, genuine salvation will produce a desire to obey Jesus' teachings: As we grow in our relationship with Jesus, we'll increasingly want to follow His teachings and live according to His will.

Romans 10:9 – “If you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”

MaxInDHouse:
NO!
He is not saved yet!
A Visa to Paradise is not salvation, those in Paradise on earth are still under probation that's why God never counted them as part of the living until Satan is no more.
Only the 144,000 who partake in the first resurrection are saved because they are taken to heaven immediately as they are resurrected {1Thessalonians 4;16-17} but those resurrected here on earth can't have everlasting life until they pass the final test! Revelations 20:4-6
So what Jesus promised that thief is Visa to Paradise not heaven only born again Christians who has been baptized of water and spirit are born again {John 3:3-5} that thief never had such experience and the same goes with all the people who lived before John the baptist including John himself! Matthew 11:11-12

"Come on! Are you for real?"
Your argument suggests that salvation is incomplete until after a probationary period in Paradise, but this view contradicts what Jesus Himself said and the broader teaching of Scripture. Let’s examine this carefully.

1. Jesus’ Promise to the Thief on the Cross

Luke 23:43 – "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

Jesus did not say, “You will enter a probationary state.”

He promised the thief immediate entry into Paradise, signifying salvation.

The thief expressed faith in Jesus as King, and Jesus responded with assurance.

Now look at this;
Revelation 2:7 – “To the one who overcomes, I will grant to eat from the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God.”

Paradise is not a probationary waiting area—it is where the righteous dwell with God.


2 Corinthians 12:3-4 – Paul describes being caught up to Paradise, equating it with the "third heaven" (God’s dwelling place).

The idea that Paradise is separate from eternal life contradicts this passage.


Revelation 20:4-6 does speak of those who reign with Christ in the first resurrection, but it does not say they are the only ones saved.

The 144,000 are a specific group with a special role, not the only ones who attain salvation.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 describes the resurrection of all believers, not just a limited number.


Lastly, Salvation Is by Grace, Not Rituals

John 3:3-5 teaches the necessity of being born again, but this does not mean water baptism is the only way to be saved.

The thief on the cross was saved without baptism, proving salvation is by faith, not rituals.

Jesus Himself declared, "Whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

The Bible is not a controversial book, and simply quoting excessive Scriptures cannot turn falsehood into truth. After so much effort, the conclusion remains the same: “Salvation is free for the children of God.”

If that is the case, does it not contradict the idea that salvation must be earned? If everything previously argued leads back to salvation being a gift, then all attempts to defend the opposite position become invalid.

Let me be clear—I am not here to "win" a debate but to present what Scripture teaches. I love discussing the Bible, not with an attitude of knowing it all, but with a humble heart, willing to learn. However, I cannot ignore when Scripture is misinterpreted to fit personal ideas—especially when salvation, the most important truth, is distorted.

Salvation Is a Gift from God

Some argue that salvation is a reward, but the Bible says otherwise. Salvation is not something we earn; it is a gift freely given by God's grace.

1. Ephesians 2:8-9 – “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.”

Salvation is not a prize for obedience or endurance; it is God's gracious gift to those who believe.

2. Romans 6:23 – “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

If salvation were a reward, it would be based on what we deserve. But because of God’s love, He offers it freely, despite our unworthiness.

3. Titus 3:5 – “He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy.”

Good works, obedience, or perseverance do not earn salvation—they are the fruit of salvation.

The Bible speaks about obedience and endurance, but these are not the cause of salvation. Instead, they are the evidence of a life transformed by Christ.

John 10:28-29 – Jesus said, “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.”

Jude 24 – “Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of His glory with great joy.”


Those who are truly saved will obey and endure—not to earn salvation, but because God's grace is at work in them.

delkuf:
the man that was crucified with Jesus did he obeyed God in any way. Did he lived a righteous life but Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise. So my brother Salvation is a gift. If you are talking of faith. Faith need to be worked out. But not salvation

I don’t fully understand the man, but based on everything Scripture says, I have never seen salvation described as a reward. Maybe they don’t realize that Jesus is our salvation.

Salvation is not just a concept or a reward—it is found in a person, and that person is Jesus Christ.

Jesus is Our Salvation

1. Luke 2:30 – Simeon, when holding baby Jesus, declared: “For my eyes have seen Your salvation.”

He recognized that salvation is Jesus Himself, not just something Jesus gives.

2. Acts 4:12 – “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

Salvation is in Jesus alone—He is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6).

3. John 3:16 – “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

Salvation is not just escaping hell—it is entering into a relationship with Jesus, who is life itself.

MaxInDHouse:
That's why he said to his cohort in crime:

“Do you not fear God at all, now that you have received the same judgment? And we rightly so, for we are getting back what we deserve for the things we did; but this man did nothing wrong.” Luke 23:40-41

Turning to Jesus:

 Then he said: “Jesus, remember me when you get into your Kingdom.” Luke 23:42

This is a powerful example of salvation by grace through faith, not by works. Even in his final moments, the criminal’s sincere repentance and trust in Jesus granted him eternal life.

The thief on the cross was saved because of his faith in Jesus, not just because he felt remorse.

His repentance was necessary—it showed that he recognized his sin and his need for mercy. But what saved him was that he put his trust in Jesus as the King and Savior. Jesus didn’t say, “Because you are remorseful, you will be with me in paradise.” Instead, He responded to the man’s faith: “Today you will be with me in paradise.”

This shows that salvation comes through faith alone, by grace alone, not as a reward for anything we do—even repentance itself. However, true faith always includes repentance, because when we believe in Christ, we turn away from sin.

gohf:
lol, say whatever you want. This response is not for your sake

Luke.9.62 But Jesus said to him, "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."

1John.2.17 And this world is fading away, along with everything it craves. But if you do the will of God, you will live forever.
1John.2.20 - 25
But you are not like that, for the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and all of you know the truth. So I am writing to you not because you don't know the truth but because you know the difference between truth and falsehood... So you must remain faithful to what you have been taught from the beginning. If you do, you will continue to live in fellowship with the Son and with the Father. And this is the promise that He has promised us--eternal life.

The scripture is clear, and I see no reason to disagree because God is not the author of confusion. The Bible teaches that salvation is a free gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-9), yet it also calls believers to faithfulness and perseverance. The verses you mentioned emphasize the responsibility of the believer after receiving salvation. This is how it goes:

1. Luke 9:62 – Jesus says, “No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”

It highlights the cost of discipleship. Once a person commits to following Jesus, they must not turn back to their old ways.
It does not mean salvation is earned, but it warns against half-hearted commitment. True believers will persevere in faith.

2. 1 John 2:17 – “But if you do the will of God, you will live forever.”

This does not contradict free salvation. Instead, it shows that true faith produces obedience (James 2:17).
Those who are truly saved will desire to do God's will, proving their faith is genuine.

3. 1 John 2:20-25 – “You must remain faithful to what you have been taught.”

This encourages believers to persevere in their faith and not be led astray by false teachings.
The promise of eternal life is for those who continue in the faith—not because they earn salvation, but because perseverance is a mark perseverance is a mark of true believers.


Salvation is God's gift of grace, received through faith in Jesus Christ. It is not earned by good works but brings transformation, leading believers to follow God’s will and remain faithful to Him. True salvation produces a life of obedience and perseverance.

Good night!

delkuf:
I told you to ponder on this. That I will continue. I had stop and see if you have any questions to ask.
Ask yourself, who is God? Is God a human being or a spirit.
Am not saying it is not correct that Mary got pregnant through the Holy Ghost. I was trying to show that even though Mary got pregnant through the Holy Ghost, Joseph was still the earthly Father of the Lord Jesus. It was through the lineage of Joseph that the Lord Jesus became a human being. That was what I was emphasis on. Are we going to say that the Holy Ghost is the earthly Father of Jesus because Mary got pregnant through the Holy Ghost.

Continue!

gohf:
"If the Holy Spirit has revealed to you that salvation is a reward, who am I to question your claim?"

Who made the claim 🙄

You believe there is no hidden interpretation.

Did I tell you I was giving you a hidden interpretation?

One principle you always uphold in biblical discussions is to never say what the Bible does not say.

If you want to justify yourself continue but instead of praising yourself you should have just shown what the bible says.

Do you think my words are about me insisting I am right, are the words about me? Is this a discuss to prove who is right? If so then it's okay I am wrong believe whatever you want.

You claimed my explanation is incorrect without showing how or why it is incorrect. Look my response is not because of whatever opinion you want to have about me. 😆

Did I tell you that salvation is devoid of God's help. Let me use your own words, that salvation is impossible for man to attain on his own. Why didn't you write that Jesus said Salvation is given completely by God and not that man needs God's help to obey Him.

So Jesus reveals we need God's help but here you are claiming that it is completely free from God. Then why didn't Jesus tell that to the rich man, why did he comment the apostles who left all and followed him?

Go back and read my responses again, because it feels like I am responding to a child that feels they want to be right rather than understand the truth.

You are asking like I haven't told you that Jesus repeated taught salvation and eternal life as a reward.

You can still go ahead and call these verses my claiming to be right

Matt.10.22 And everyone will hate you because of your allegiance to me. But those who endure to the end will be saved.

Matt.24.12-13 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Matt.25.34 - 36
Then the King will say to those on the right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home.
I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.'

Luke.10.25-28
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?" He answered: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

John.5.24 "I assure you, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

John.12.50 And I know his instructions lead to eternal life; so I say whatever the Father tells me to say!"

you quoted Mark 10:17-27 and say that Jesus was exposing his heart by telling him the truth, it is either you didn't read the text and study it with the Holy Spirit and you are writing out what men have taught you.
So according to your response, if I haven’t studied with the Holy Spirit, then you have? That would mean you're claiming that the Spirit has revealed to you that salvation is a reward.

I’m not here to prove that I know more than anyone else. This isn’t about who is right or wrong but about what the Scripture truly says.

Also, you made an unnecessary jab, as if we were debating political issues. What was the reason for saying, "because it feels like I am responding to a child that feels they want to be right rather than understand the truth"? That statement was completely out of line.

The verses you quoted do not indicate that salvation is a reward. While there are rewards in heaven, salvation itself is not one of them.

For example, in Matthew 24:13, when Jesus says, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved," He is not contradicting salvation by grace. Rather, He is emphasizing that genuine believers will remain steadfast in their faith despite trials and temptations.

Jesus' statement encourages faithful perseverance—not as a way to earn salvation, but as a reflection of true, living faith. Those who truly belong to Christ will remain firm, not by their own strength, but because God sustains them.

As a matter of fact, Jesus was speaking about the end times, warning His disciples that as wickedness increases, many people's love for God will "grow cold."

This does not mean that true believers will lose their salvation. Rather, it means that many will fall away, revealing that their faith was never genuine.

Take note of this, 1 John 2:19 1 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

MaxInDHouse:
People gets paid for a job well done so if you do a good job and your employer is happy he rewards you handsomely so let's say we served God throughout our life for 100 years if He is to reward us regarding the service rendered it should be 100-500 years reward but God doesn't reward people who served Him that is for those who showed love or care for His servants (worshipers) He can make such ones super rich or live longer than expected as a pay back for the favour they showed to his servants! Matthew 10:40-42
For His worshipers God GIVES them an award which nobody can get from Him except His loyal worshipers that's why Paul said:

For the WAGES sin PAYS is death, but the GIFT God gives is EVERLASTING LIFE by Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

This means all evildoers will be paid what they deserves which is DEATH but as for God's own worshipers He doesn't pay them but awards them.

Many unbelievers and evildoers have done good to God's people one way or another in the past so they will surely be rewarded for any good they do to God's people no matter how small it is but for being unbelievers or evildoers they will get what they deserves which is death!

Evildoers receive no reward, for they cannot produce good. Just as light and darkness cannot come from the same source, neither can good and evil.

However, I am certain that God rewards those who serve Him wholeheartedly, as the Bible affirms. Salvation is not among these rewards, for it is a free gift from God.

According to Scripture, God promises various rewards for faithfulness, obedience, and service. Among these are different crowns given to believers:

The Crown of Life (James 1:12, Revelation 2:10) – for those who endure trials and remain faithful.

The Incorruptible Crown (1 Corinthians 9:25) – for those who practice self-discipline in their Christian walk.

The Crown of Righteousness (2 Timothy 4: – for those who long for Christ’s return and live righteously.

The Crown of Glory (1 Peter 5:4) – for those who shepherd and care for God’s people.

The Crown of Rejoicing (1 Thessalonians 2:19) – often called the "soul winner’s crown," given to those who lead others to Christ.


These rewards reflect God’s justice and His desire to honor those who faithfully serve Him.

delkuf:
@Thankgod this is thread
With the help of the Holy Ghost I will be showing you the difference between everlasting life and eternal life. Though this words may have the same meaning but biblical they are different. And I will be using John 3:14-16 as the main verse.
"And as Moses lifted the serpent in the wilderness, so must the son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth In him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth In him should not perish but have everlasting life.
In verse 14, the Bible talks about an event that happened to the children of Israel after they left Egypt. They disobeyed God and God made serpent to come out from the ground to bit the children of Israel. They were dying from the vernom of the serpent until Moses cried to God and ask for forgiveness. God now told Moses to make a golden statue of a serpent that anyone that look at that serpent will not die. And the Lord Jesus Christ said as that serpent was lifted up so he the son of man will be lifted up. And as the children of Israel were save from vernom of the serpent, when he is lifted up we would be saved.
From verse 14 I want you to note the word son of man. The Lord Jesus said so he as the son of man must be lifted up. He wasn't talking of the the son of God here he was talking of the son of man.
For us to really know what eternal life is, we must know the Lord Jesus as the son of man. Who Jesus is as the son of man and what he did as a son of man. Our understanding of this is what give us eternal life. The Lord Jesus is the son of God in heaven. But he came to the world and become the son of a man called Joseph and Mary. I know some will argue that Mary the mother of Jesus was pregnant through the Holy Ghost but Joseph was still the earthly Father of Jesus. It was through the lineage of Joseph the Lord Jesus came to earth. So he came to this world and became the son of Joseph and Mary. Why this is important, is because if you don't know the Lord Jesus as the son of man, it will be difficult for you to know and believe in the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus. BECAUSE JESUS CAN ONLY DIE AS THE SON OF MAN AND NOT AS THE SON OF GOD. Jesus as the son of man is a human being but Jesus as the son of God is a spirit. Spirit cannot die. Spirit cannot be seen or touch. So fo the Lord Jesus to die for our sins and resurrect, he must come to this world and become the son of a man. And it our faith in the Lord Jesus as a son of man that gives us eternal life. And as the serpent was lifted up so must the son of man be lifted up that whosoever that believe in him should not perish but have eternal life. Ponder on this. If you have any questions you can ask. I will continue later

Based on what you wrote, you have not clearly distinguished between everlasting life and eternal life.

You quoted John 3:14, where Jesus compares this Old Testament event to His own crucifixion. For what?

Do you even understand why Jesus called himself the Son of Man? Are you aware that the title "Son of God" was a message from Angel Gabriel?

We who call ourselves sons of God—are we spirits? Do you truly understand what it means to be a son of God?



You also mentioned that some people might argue that Mary, the mother of Jesus, conceived through the Holy Spirit—is that not correct?

Lastly, you stated, "And it is our faith in the Lord Jesus as the Son of Man that gives us eternal life."

But what exactly is eternal life?

delkuf:
are you going to open another thread. Let me know

Kindly open it sir

delkuf:
you just said you have six translator of the Bible, won't it be waste of time

When I first saw your comment about everlasting life being different from eternal life, I was surprised and thought, "Wow! This is something new to learn." But after checking all the translations I have at home, I realized both terms are used interchangeably. What concerns me, though, is when you told me to disregard the Greek interpretation.

My brother, if you're confident in your understanding, please explain it to us here. But if not, kindly acknowledge that your initial perspective on the subject was mistaken.

delkuf:
well like I said I don't want to go deep into it. Thanks

I’d appreciate it if you could dive deeper so others can learn—especially if you have solid points to share.

gohf:
you quoted Mark 10:17-27 and say that Jesus was exposing his heart by telling him the truth, it is either you didn't read the text and study it with the Holy Spirit and you are writing out what men have taught you. Is the purpose of telling us the truth to expose us or to save us?

What is written in Mark is that Jesus loved him and revealed more to him
Mark.10.21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Infact in other gospel accounts it was stated that it was the man who asked Jesus if there was anything he lacked.

This account wasn't the only time Jesus answered a question concerning eternal life and obedience to God. In Matthew 25 when Jesus speaks about the righteous going to eternal life he mentions the good works they did. In Matthew 7 when he rejects those who claim to know him, it is because they did not do the will of God. In that Mark 10 and Matthew 19, Jesus had to answer Peter concerning those of them that gave it all to follow Jesus and Jesus spike about their reward in heaven. Yes the giving wasn't for salvation and for eternal life, it was so the man would have a great reward in heaven seeing as he is going there having obeyed God. It is hard for the rich to enter the kingdom of God because it is hard for them to obey Jesus who teaches us to give, to forsake all.

But then you claim, "salvation isn’t merely about external obedience but about surrender to Christ." Please surrender is obedience, you can't surrender and live life how ever way you want, your surrender is shown by your obedience there is nothing like internal obedience that's a lie of the devil. Jesus said one said he will go but didn't external do anything but one refused but external went and Jesus asked which of the two obeyed, that's in Matt 21. I can still bring out more verses that debunk your believe that salvation is a free gift.

But for now, you quoted Luke 19:1-10
Then you wrote, "But Jesus didn't say, "Today you have earned salvation." Instead, He declared, "Today salvation has come to this house."

Luke.19.9 Jesus responded, "Salvation has come to this home today, for this man has shown himself to be a son of Abraham.

Look the fact that you say because it wasn't written earned can be thrown back at you, did Paul wrote salvation is a free gift?....

If the Holy Spirit has revealed to you that salvation is a reward, who am I to question your claim? However, the Scriptures are clear, and I believe there is no hidden interpretation. One principle I always uphold in biblical discussions is to never say what the Bible does not say.

Your explanation is incorrect, yet you continue to insist that you are right.

Here are my points from Mark 10:17-27: The man walked away sorrowful, revealing that his attachment to wealth was greater than his desire for eternal life. This emphasizes that salvation is not merely about external obedience but about full surrender to Christ.

Now, consider the disciples’ reaction and Jesus’ response in verses 26-27:

"[26] And they were astonished beyond measure, saying among themselves, ‘Who then can be saved?’ [27] But Jesus, looking at them, said, ‘With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.’"

If salvation were simply a reward for good works or obedience, why didn’t Jesus say so? Instead, He declared that salvation is impossible for man to attain on his own. This proves that salvation is not something we earn—it is only possible with God’s help because it is a free gift.

gohf:
It is better to call salvation a reward, for the grace of God through Jesus gives us eternal life. While the reward for sin is death. But then we are rewarded only because God is merciful and forgives all our sins and doesn't count any of them but counts only our obedience to him. That is salvation as a result of God's gift

No sir,salvation is not a reward,

Salvation in the Bible is consistently presented as a gift rather than a reward. A reward is something earned through effort, while a gift is given freely, often without merit. However, the response to that gift—faith, repentance, and obedience—demonstrates that a person has truly received it.

In the case of the rich young ruler (Mark 10:17-27), Jesus told him to obey God's commands, but when the man claimed to have done so, Jesus exposed his heart by asking him to sell everything and follow Him. The man walked away sorrowful, showing that his attachment to wealth was greater than his desire for eternal life. This highlights that salvation isn’t merely about external obedience but about surrender to Christ.

With Zacchaeus (Luke 19:1-10), his repentance and restitution were signs of his changed heart. But Jesus didn't say, "Today you have earned salvation." Instead, He declared, "Today salvation has come to this house." Zacchaeus' actions were the evidence of a transformed heart, not the means by which he achieved salvation.

Paul makes it clear in Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Salvation is God's gift, but genuine faith will always produce obedience and good works (Ephesians 2:10, James 2:17).

So, while obedience is crucial, salvation itself is not a reward for obedience—it is a gift that leads to obedience.