₦airaland Forum

budaatum:
Not true triple. This was barely 6 months old where you maligned and attempted to tarnish the image of buda, and it was prudoh who actually reignited it by quoting your malignations.

https://www.nairalaOnd.com/7731741/mission/11#137384850

But that's by the by. You can not expect to have done what you did in that entire thread that I created for a purpose and which you derailed, and expect it not to come up in the future, just as this thread too forever will.

Lies. June 2023 to November 2026 is over two years, not six months.I am not Prudoh who quoted me over a week ago about what I said about AMORC.You are not AMORC.and he never mentioned you. Before I could respond to him, you quoted me to question me angrily about the past issue which has nothing to do with he said about AMORC.

I blame myself for not ignoring you .It will never happen again

budaatum:
Anyone can copy the manifesto, Spencer, but do not take my word for it. Go to the links below and see if you can copy it in its entirety without being a member.

https://order.rosy-cross.org/rosicrucian-manifestos

https://archive.org/stream/TheRosicrucianManifestos/The%20Rosicrucian%20Manifestos_djvu.txt

Read its history here too so you understand why copyright is irrelevant. It was always an anonymous document, so no one can now claim copyright.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fama_Fraternitatis


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNmHbusskzM?si=qhPwk4qGCWcPZPCz

It is not about copying the manifesto. It is copying the manifesto together with the " Rosae Crucis" which is a registered trademark of AMORC to create a thread on Nairaland to recruit new members on their behalf. Only an Affiliate or their representative can do that.

"Rosicrucian Order" and r"Rosae Crucis" are registered trademark of AMORC . Don't pretend you don't know this. It is clearly stated on their official website.

Registered trademark or not, what you are arguing here is that an atheist can use the name or anything connected to the "Redeemed Christian church of Nigeria" to create a thread on Nairaland to promote the benefits of joining the church and the end of the promotional post attached a link to download a book written by Pastor Adeboye for new coverts together with contacts details for the church in Nigeria. This is the equivalent of what you did promoting AMORC yet you still claim atheist.

It is naive to think that not a single person has used that link in your promotional post to join AMORC when it was active.

Any way the matter is closed. Those who know what to search will find out the truth themselves

SpencerForbes:
I agree with you; it looks like triplechoice is holding onto this issue longer than necessary. This forum is designed for robust discussions, and anyone has the right to rebut your claim—that’s the whole point. When that happens, your job is simply to bring the proof and defend your point, not to get emotional. We all have those "nemesis" here who throw shade or call names, but you just have to learn not to take it personally.

Triplechoice needs to know when to just walk away. And frankly, I highly doubt budaatum is trying to forcefully convert him to any religion he doesn't want. Sometimes, ignoring is the highest form of intellectual response, and some arguments are purely for the banter and the 'cruise.' I still don't see the need for the thread to be dragging like this.

On a side note, I understand triplechoice’s frustration with the (supposed) hypocrisy. I have my eye on one of those occultic members masquerading as a Christian here too. I'm hoping to call him out very soon,

I appreciate your perspective, but you are misunderstanding the core issue and its history.

It is not about trying to convert me or holding a grudge. If anyone is holding a grudge,it is Budaatum. He is the one who resurrected this two-year -old issue, not me . After a long period of amicable discussions between the two of us, he chose to restart this conflict, making me to doubt his sanity.

My goal has never been to force an admission from him. ( he will never admit anything) .It has been to expose a pattern of intellectual dishonesty: posing as a pure atheist to mock others while being a passionate promoter and defender of AMORC, a spiritual group. This is about the principle of honest debate,not his beliefs.

If he didn't cross the line with me , I wouldn't have bothered to expose his hypocrisy. He is not the only member of AMORC on this forum. If it is to expose their members, I will be doing so every time.

You are right that we can choose to ignore things. But I choose not to tolerate people who think they can fool me with the double life they are living. How I can conduct myself online is a reflection of my offline character. There are certain things a human being should not tolerate whether offline or online. I will not hide forever on Nairaland. Time will come when I will operate like others here with real names and true face exposed. So ,I care.

I have said all I need to say. The evidence is public. I am now closing this matter and will no longer be engaging on it. Those who understands the dynamics of such groups will see the truth

For those who want to understand what has transpired here, I ask that you start from the beginning of the thread and patiently read through the evidence.

Thank you

SpencerForbes:
A simple research will help here and I think budaatum is right. They might be a member but there’s no concrete evidence they are. We can’t justify triplechoice’s accusations based on abstract facts.

The "research", which has influenced your thinking, is meaningless. It is garbage in , garbage out. You asked the AI and incomplete and misleading questions hence the result you got.

You asked if "anyone can use" the Latin title . The AI gave a generic "yes" based on a simplistic view of language and public domain. But deliberately omitted the critical context that defines this as evidence of membership

Remember, AI is not a human being with the awareness to understand context. It cannot weigh intent, patterns of behavior, or the unspoken rules of secretive groups. If you are unaware of this limitation, you will be fed convincing nonsense that misses the entire point. And this what you just got from it.


You didn't mention that the title was used as the heading for a recruitment thread, without the consent of the organisation that has the sole right to the trademark name "Rosae Crucis" in the Latin title .

You didn't mention the poster's history of defending AMORC doctrines and distributing hard-to find,-member texts to other AMORC members who have not hidden their membership.

Of course anyone can theoretically type Latin words. But it is the actions, context,and intent that give them meaning.

Just be patient and allow me to finish my presentation. You can then use any tool you wish to confirm the full story. But it is crucial that you do not interpret the evidence out of context. Any attempt to do so at this stage will lead to an incomplete and misleading understanding. It was what Buda has been doing to confuse those following. So, please don't join him to create additional confusion.

FYI, groups like AMORC do not publish their membership lists. The only way to ascertain affiliation is through behavioral evidence. I know how to identify them through their behavior, having observed them at very close quarters when I almost joined the group.

budaatum:
Dude, you can't trademark a 1611 document, and the AMORC documents I'm posting are all in the public domain and are freely available!

https://www.rosicrucian.org/rosicrucian-books

Your attempt to shift the argument to a1614 document is strawman fallacy, designed to confuse the ignorant public about the actual issue

You're now arguing that "you can't trademark a1611 document" This is irrelevant. No one is claiming the historical Fama Fraternitatis document from 1614 is trademarked. You just built a false argument to knock down.

The actual, real issue is your use of the specific modem title "manifesto-positio-fraternitatis-rosae-crucis"

This is not the title of a 400 year old public domain manuscript . It is the title of official, modern documentation from the contemporary organisation, AMORC

The terms "Rosicrucian Order" and its Latin form, Rosae Crucis" are explicitly registered trademarks of AMORC , as stated on their official website and in legal records. They have been used and trademark by AMORC for over a century to protect their specific identity

The Critical distinction you're hiding from those following are these;

Public Domain: The general, historical ideas of Rosicrucianism

Protracted Trademark: The specific name "Rosicrucian Order ( Rosae Crucis)" as used by the organisation AMORC :

So, by using AMORC's official, trademark title for your recruitment thread , you were not "quoting history". You were acting as a representative of the modem, trademarked organisation

And yes, your entire defense is a semantic trick. Those in the know can now see you're trying to hide behind the history of Rosicrucianism to justify your unauthorized use of AMORC's protected, modern trademarks for promotional activity. The organisation's silence on your actions only confirms what is now obvious: you operated as a recognised affiliate in that thread of yours Stop denying it with silly and illogical arguments

SpencerForbes:
It actually has a book and a non member can teach about it. So we need more evidences.

You have taken it out of the context of its use here.

Can a non member used it to recruit for new members on a public forum without the consent of the organisation?

budaatum:
While awaiting FxMasterz's judgement on my previous, I post here another key Rosicrucian document.

Fama Fraternitatis
This is the key document on which the Rosicrucian phenomenon was based. It was first published in 1614 in German and in 1615 in Latin, though there are some manuscript copies in existence dating from about 1611.

https://www.alchemywebsite.com/fama.html

Trying to fool the public with what they don't know.

Be specific next time when you use the word. "Rosicrucian" . AMORC which you belong to is not the only Rosicrucian group that exist

budaatum:
I'm very certain this will in no way convince you otherwise, but here it is all the same.

https://amorc.org.uk/sites/default/files/media-files/positio-fraternitatis-rosae-crucis.pdf

Now, what say ye?

@FxMasterz, Budaatum in his desperation to exonerating himself has just proven my. entire case.

His posting of the official AMORC document doesn't just prove where he copied the title from ,it introduces a crucial point he ignored: Trademark Law and implied Endorsement.

AMORC, like any organisation holds trademarks on its name and official documents to protect its identity. They do not allow outsiders to use their official trademark materials for unauthorized recruitment

Let's take a look at what his action demonstrates:

He used AMORC's official trademarked materials to title his recruitment thread

The organisation has taken no action against him for this unauthorized use of their intellectual property to recruit on a public forum as popular as Nairaland.

Fellow AMORC members on this forum have not reprimand him for impersonating the Order or misusing its documents.

There is only one logical conclusion from this, the organisation and its members here on this forum recognize his actions as those of an affiliate

An organisation like AMORC does not remain silent when an outsider pirates its official documents and trademarks to recruit new members. His unimpeded use of their official branding for recruitment is the strongest silent admission of his affiliation. He has never been treated has an imposter by other members on this forum because he is not one ,in fact; most of them depend on him for links to download rare to find AMORC text that has gone out of print.

So you can see how he has proven with his own evidence that he acted as a recognised representative of the group when he created that thread hence his confusion and the actions he took later to "" technically" hide the thread when I brought it to his attention.

SpencerForbes:
I’m still skeptical. The constant reference to AMORC is glaring and I don’t still get the point behind the thread. Till he answer my questions, I’ll keep watching how it’s gonna end.

If you’re a constant nairalander, you’ll be called so many names and sometimes it’s just funny. So I see no reason for the thread just because someone called him a liar.

Budaatum is leading you astray. This is not because he called me a liar. When I am done with my presentation, he will explain what led to the creation of this thread.

It is not what you're thinking.

Here we go.

First thing first.

The title of the thread which contains the "Smoking,-gun evidence is:

https://www.nairaland.com/302215/manifesto-positio-fraternitatis-rosae-crucis#4312040

"manifesto-positio-fraternitatis-rosae-crucis"

It is Latin

My analysis of this title

" Manifesto": A public declaration of policy and aims ( from Latin manifests,"clear, evident ')

"Positio": Position, thesis,or statement

"Fraternitatis": Of the Brotherhood (genitive case of fraternitas)

"Rosae Crucis" Of the Rosy Cross (genitive case of Rosa Crucis)

A literal and meaningful translation of the entire title would be: "Manifesto on the Position of the Rosicrucian Brotherhood", or "A statement of the Fraternity of the Rosy Cross"

Now, can an outsider Use this?

This is the critical question,and the answer strongly supports my accusation

It' is highly unlikely for an outsider to use it. A genuine outsider or casual "quoter" would almost certainly use a comom English title like, "The Rosicrucian Manifesto", or AMORC'ss Position ". The use of a full grammatically correct Latin title demonstrates a level of familiarity and intentionality that goes far beyond a neutral observer

What does the title signify?

It signals Affiliation and Esoteric knowledge.

Latin is the traditional language of Western esotericism, scholarship, and ritual. Using it is a deliberate signal of being "in the know", an insider,not an outsider.

By titling his thread this way,he wasn't just sharing information,he was framing it within the specific tradition and linguistic code of the group itself. This is an act of identification

The title of the thread functions as a Shibboleth. This is the use off language to distinguish members of one group from another. The Latin title used by Budaatum functions as a Shibboleth. It immediately signal to other members or knowledgeable individuals that the poster is operating within the esoteric tradition
Conversely, it might seem obscure or pretentious to a general audience, which is likely the point .

What can we draw from this?

As someone who almost join the group after reading their books and observing their members from very close quarters to the extent of visiting one of their leaders to have further discussion concerning the Order , I can tell everyone reading this with all certainty that the formal Latin title used by Buda in his thread was not the action of a neutral atheist "quoting", a group. It was the action of someone who identities with the group's tradition and was using its own formal, esoteric language to communicate

This directly contradicts his defense of being a detached observer and confirms his affiliation. He is deeply embedded in the group's culture and practices

To be continued. Let me have my dinner . I will be back . cc @FxMasterz, Meedon, OLAADEGBU, SpencerForbes

SpencerForbes:
Triplechoice, I’ve been observing your post regarding Budaatum and have a few questions and observations about the matter.

First, what concrete evidence do you have that Budaatum is genuinely a member of AMORC? I ask because promoting something, like the Illuminati, doesn't automatically make someone a member, and posting a phone number doesn't guarantee it belongs to the poster.

Second, did you actually try calling the number? If you did, did Budaatum answer and confirm their identity? The contact provided could easily belong to another person or even a fraudster, given the number of fake accounts we see online. How are you certain that number is theirs?

Third, why do you think Budaatum would want to deny their religious or spiritual affiliation? We have many members who are openly proud atheists or occultists here. If they are truly a member of an organization like AMORC, the denial seems strange. Why not openly declare it, perhaps encouraging others?

For instance, we have a moniker like esoterictemple who is openly associated with occultic affiliations, despite some people's opinions on their posts. I was raised Christian, and even though I no longer attend church, I still identify as such; I'd only deny being a Muslim or pagan, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate Greek and Egyptian mythology. If they are truly a member, the denial seems counterintuitive.

Thanks for your brilliant and well reasoned set of questions. I genuinely appreciate them, since they show you're following this matter keenly and thinking critically about it.

You've actually raised several of the key points,I was planning to address in my next segment, where I will analyse the critical thread titled: "Manifesto -Positio-fraternitatis-rosae-crucis"

Your timing is perfect.

So, please allow me to present that analysis first,as it will provide essential context that directly addresses the heart of your questions, specifically, "why should he hide"? and what the nature of the evidence truly reveals .

It has become clear to me that many people are judging this situation based on common assumptions, without access to the specific information and context about how such groups operate. Buda has been capitalising on this. But my upcoming post will shed light on this

So, I ask for your patience. I will ensure your questions are answered thoroughly immediately after the analysis. Your engagement is valued, and I want to provide you with the most complete picture possible .

Time will be around 8pm today.

LordReed:
You are the one deflecting. It's simple matter for you to say on what page of this thread you posted the evidence or link to the evidence of budaatum defending AMORC from attack but instead here you are behaving the exact way you are accusing me of. LoLz.

At this point all you have is accusations, lengthy posts will not deflect from the lack of evidence. I will not do your homework for you to go look for it for you.

I said, finish what you started first before jumping to another.

Hello everyone,

Later today,I will present a critical analysis of the thread titled:

"Manifesto-Positio-fraternitatis-rosae-crucis"

Created by Buda.

I will break down the meaning of this Latin title and explain what its use reveals about who created the thread. This analysis will be crucial to understanding why technical attempt was made to hide it after its discovery by me on his profile

Make sure you don't miss it. If someone wants to scam or deceive you they use what they know you're ignorant of to do so. Come back here to read what you don't know so you're not longer deceived or confused.

Cc FxMasterz, Meedon, Heatseeker OLAADEGBU

LordReed:
How is it bias to ask you for the evidence for what you are saying? You claimed that budaatum always rises to defend AMORC when it is attacked, asking you to show evidence of that is now bias? Be for freakin real please.

Sealioning? Where did you link evidence of budaatum defending AMORC from attack?

Don't use my statement as an excuse to not show the evidence, that is a punk move. Show the evidence let everyone see that budaatum is doing what you said was done. I am not the only one who will see it so how is my bias now going close the eyes of every other person? Abeg jor.

Your emotional reaction and selective reading prove my point. This is no longer a good-faith request. It is a deflection.

The links have been posted in this thread. The fact that you have either missed them or are pretending they don't exist is not my problem. Other users like,FxMasterz have seen them and engaged with the substance, which is why the conversation has moved forward. You are choosing to remain behind, demanding I repeat what is already on the record .

Moreover, you have completely ignored my substantive reply to your "JW website"analogy where I explained the critical difference between neutral sharing and active promotion and defense. You are not entitled to make new demands while refusing to engage with the answers you've already been given

Your tactic is very obvious and it is not an inquiry. Your demand for me to "mention two places" is a deliberate attempt to fracture a complete story into isolated,out-of-context fragments. The evidence I provided,the promotional thread,and the documented pattern of defense, tells a coherent story of attachment

So, it would be a silly and insulting request to ask me to produce a post where Buda explicitly writes "I am a member of AMORC here to defend it". Members of such groups,and Buda' in particular, operate through implication, promotion,and defense,not explicit confession.Anyone who doesn't know this ,is naive and ignorant.

The entire narrative is clear. Asking me to break this story into meaningless checklist is an insult to the intelligence of everyone who has been following this presentation

The burden is no longer on me to repost public links to your personal benefit. If you are sincerely curious, something you could have done at any point was to ask your friend, Buda' directly, "Hey, did you defend AMORC's doctrinal books in the past or when the Order came under attack in this forum? "Is that what triplechoice is referring to?

His answer would be more revealing than any further performance from you.

This deflection is over. I will not repost what is already before the public until you engage with the "JW website" rebuttal from me. Thank you

LordReed:
Quote 2 places budaatum defended AMORC from attack.

With all due respect Reed, your bias is becoming more transparent .

I have already provided direct links to the evidence. You're now engaging in a tactic called "sealioning", the repeated bad-faith demand for evidence that has already been presented,to create a false impression that it doesn't exist

You didn't just join the thread.You have been here from the beginning and even from where it all began.

My previous reply to your JW analogy dismantled your argument by explaining the critical difference between neutral sharing and active promotion. You have not engaged with that rebuttal at all. Instead you are attempting to move the goalposts.

Sorry, I will not be led on this endless chase. The burden is no longer on me to repost what is already available.

It is now on you to either, engage substantively with the evidence and arguments I have already provided,or admit that you're not here for a good faith-discussion.

And until you do one of these,I will take your request as exactly what it is ,a deflection.

Don't forget you already admitted your bias and so based on this, you cannot be an honest judge here.. This line of questioning is closed

Thank you once again for your help

budaatum:
Trust me when I say that I am very delighted and exceedingly pleased that those you invited to come and help you put a tyre around buda's neck and pour petrol on and burn are being "misled" by buda not to burn the buda that you want to burn.

It increases my trust and faith in the human race.

Your melodramatic fantasy about tyres and petrol is a pathetic deflection,and everyone can see it. It's silly performance designed to paint yourself as a victim and avoid the factual basis of this discussion.

1. You created a thread promoting AMORC

2. You used the word "we" and provided recruitment links.3.

3 You then technically "hid" this thread from your profile and kept silent where it can be found for over two years.

4. You only admitted it and produced the link when you were cornered in this very thread.

These are the actions of a person caught in a lie

You can perform your ", delight" and talk about your "faith"in the human race" all you want hiding behind your phone. But it doesn't change the facts. Your theatrical response only proves you have no legitimate answer to the evidence against you

The floor is still open for you to explain your documented actions.No amount of drama changes that

LordReed:
So if I post a JW website link it means I am trying to recruit for JW? It doesn't follow especially as budaatum didn't explicitly ask anyone to join AMORC. Budaatum even clearly says the opposite, that would be a very strange thing to do if actively seeking to recruit don't you think?

You are not clear here.

"What do you mean by Budaatum even clearly says the opposite "

LordReed:
So if I post a JW website link it means I am trying to recruit for JW? It doesn't follow especially as budaatum didn't explicitly ask anyone to join AMORC. Budaatum even clearly says the opposite, that would be a very strange thing to do if actively seeking to recruit don't you think?

Your hypothetical scenario is a false equivalence that ignores the specific context of Buda's actions.

Posting a single JW link in a neutral discussion is not the same as what Buda' did. The evidence shows a consistent pattern .

He didn't just drop a link. He used the first person "we" to describe AMORC and outlined the benefits one would gain by engaging with the group. This frames the information as an endorsement, not a neutral reference.

The link in the post was to download AMORC 's introductory materials, which are explicitly designed for potential new members,not for critical analysis.

This wasn't a one -off event. It is long history of him defending AMORC's doctrines from criticism, an action that makes no sense for a true atheist . He has never criticized the group instead what you find each time Amorc comes under attack is that Budaatum is always there to defend it.

Let me use your analogy correctly. If I consistently used "we"when talking about JWs, praised the benefits of being a Jehovah's Witness, distribute their "what we Believe" brochures,and passionately defended their doctrines online,you would be right to conclude I was an advocate or a member, even if I never explicitly said the words"please join"

The intent is clear from the totality of the actions . Buda wasn't just "sharing a link"he was promoting a group he is clearly affiliated with.

Members of Amorc are everywhere and they hardly reveal publicly their affiliation to the group. It is the same with Buda Visit the thread where he made that post and noticed that the title of the thread was written using the language only members of Amorc can understand.

The intent is clear from the totality of the actions. Buda wasn't just "sharing a link"; he was promoting a group he is clearly affiliated with.

See below the title of the thread for confirmation. It evidenced it is not the creation of an outsider. I am not the only person on Nairaland who knows Buda is an initiate of Amorc. I almost joined the group.So I know what I am talking about.

It is Latin which they mostly used in communicating certain messages within the group.

budaatum:
Are you suggesting FxMasterz and others who cleared buda of your nefarious allegations are fools who can not reason with their own minds?

You, sir, doth protest too much, and are like one who calls thief on an innocent person so the mob can help you burn them, only to find the supposed mob is far too intelligent to do your evil will.

No one is being called a fool for their opinion. The problem is that a "judgment" was passed based on a complete misrepresentation of the facts.

The core of my accusation was never about whether an atheist can "share educative materials." The accusation, backed by evidence, is that you:

Promoted and advertised Amorc for membership and providing recruitment links.

You passionately defended AMORC's specific doctrines from criticism, acting as a guardian of their beliefs.
These are the actions of an advocate or a member, not a neutral atheist. The "clearing" you received was based on the fabricated premise that this was only about "sharing information". It was not. it was about recruitment and defense

You are the one protesting, and you "doth protest too much" because you have been caught. Instead of addressing the specific evidence of your promotional activities, you hide behind irrelevant analogies about mobs and thieves, hoping to gaslight everyone into forgetting what this is actually about

The "supposed mob" is being misled by you. I am simply reminding them of the actual charges and the actual evidence you have repeatedly failed to address. So, please stop running from the facts

LordReed:
I was responding to FxMasterz and apparently, he sees the point. If you think your accusation has not been properly addressed, then that's between you and budaatum.

I understand you. But your reply misrepresented the issue for him,making him think it has to do with just sharing educative materials.

budaatum:
The below is from your initial post on this thread. It is a judgement, and based on you not even knowing at the time that budaatum is not sonmyavina (your apology for the mixup is accepted by the way), and you even mentioned your support for Maxindhouse who's only contribution to the thread was also a judgement.



What's a pity is you now claim not to have had the time to check the available evidence, which makes me think of you as one of those people who hear others shout "thief", so you "draw an inference" and join in putting a tyre around the person's neck and pouring petrol and setting the accused alight without a trial and because you did not have the time to check if the person you were burning was really a thief!

Your action here could have resulted in a tragedy, but thankfully no one got burnt, and I hope you learn from your action, because if you are one who draws inferences, instead of spending time researching as you have not done here, in FX that you claim to be a master in, I can see you on the losing side of profitable trades very often.

@FxMasterz, do not be gaslit by this dramatic analogy. This is a distraction from the facts I just laid out

Budaatum is trying to make you feel guilty for considering the evidence, comparing it to a mob action. That is absurd. I have presented specific, documented evidence of promotion and defense,not mere inference

Ignore his noise and look at the evidence I just provided, the recruitment post and the passionate defenses and judge for yourself. The facts are clear and speak for themselves

FxMasterz:
Buda is cleared.

Triplechoice should take note.

However, I have never witnessed any Nairaland atheist sharing religious materials for the purpose of education except for criticism.

If that means atheists don't have the same constraints religious people have, it means atheists don't actually know what they're doing. I cannot teach anyone about something I don't believe in. That's hypocrisy.

Buda is cleared of being called out for hypocrisy but lordreed has said it's a general thing among atheists.

No. He is not cleared. He misrepresented the issue for you hence the reason you cleared him. He succeeded because I have not been around to challenge his nonsense.

OLAADEGBU:
@triplechoice,

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it’s probably a duck.

https://www.nairaland.com/8566179/appeal-investigate-hidden-evidence-harassment#137550260

Yes, you are very correct. Let Buda continue to deceive himself. He is no atheist. He uses the fabricated atheist persona so no one here mock him for his spiritual beliefs.

Use the link below to reach the thread where he advertised for Amorc to recruit new members.

https://www.nairaland.com/302215/manifesto-positio-fraternitatis-rosae-crucis#4289185

Here again is where he passionately defend AMORC from attacks. There others too . This is just one instance where he defended the group.

https://www.nairaland.com/4793988/mystical-life/3#111529979

budaatum:
FxMasterz, this your addition is not true, or at best, it is faulty.

When you "teach" what you believe in, you are not teaching at all, and all you are doing is indoctrinate.

When some teach, they are teaching you to use your own mind so you better develop as a human being.

This is the difference between me reading the bible and even posting about Amorc books and using them as teaching tools, and a religious person indoctrinating with it. And it is what confuses many like triple who seek beliefs instead of understanding.

When I read about Jesus Christ, I see all his teachings as "seek knowledge, and seek understanding", and that is the sense in which I adore what is written about him. He is after all written to be the Word in the most gnostic of the Gospels, so why would one read only the bread?

For me, if God were to put me in the Garden of Eden and Jesus were to walk by, it is he, and not some serpent, who would pluck the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and shove it down my throat, if I didn't already steal it to eat by myself, and he'd even go get me the fruit of the tree of life and feed me that too, because if he didn't, he'd definitely fail in ensuring I live for a long enough time if not forever.

This is not what I think the Bible writers intended for us reading the Old Testament now in the 21st century though, but they can not possibly keep us enslaved by indoctrination for ever because a Jesus was always going to come and open our eyes and free our minds from ignorant slavery, as he did.

And on this note, let me express my most sincere gratitude to triplechoice for this thread. The Gods (imaginary, mind!), have indeed used you triplefold.

Shut it. You cannot confuse me. You can only confuse yourself and those whom you consider fools.

LordReed:
Ehhh, this is not correct. Atheists share educative materials about religion. Atheists don't have that kind of constraint you religious people usually have ie thinking that sharing religious material means you believe or are promoting that religion. You for instance would never go to the Islam section because you don't want that badge on your profile, you think it makes you somehow treacherous to your religion, an atheist has no such qualms.

Your response completely misses the point and misrepresents the nature of my accusation. This was never about whether an atheist can "share educative materials"

The issue is the context, content, and intent behind Buda' s actions,which go far beyond neutral sharing .

An atheist might share a Bible verse to critique it . Buda created a post advertising the benefits of joining AMORC, using the word, "We", and providing direct links for recruitment.No principled atheist recruits for spiritual organisation whose core tenets they reject.

Moreover, an atheist critiques religious claims. Budaatum has a history of passionately defending AMORC 's specific doctrines and materials from external criticism. He acts as a guardian of their beliefs,not a Skeptic of them.

Furthermore, if Budaatum is a true atheist,he should reject AMORC's teachings on the soul, cosmic consciousness,and mental alchemy as unscientific. So why would he promote and defend books containing these very doctrines?. This is the heart of the intellectual dishonesty .

Sharing a religious text for critical analysis is one thing.Actively recruiting for a religious-esoteric order and defending its dogma is another. The former is consistent with atheism, the latter is the behaviour of an advocate or a member

The evidence shows Budaatum has consistently done the latter. That's the accusation, and it remains unaddressed

Please don't allow Budaatum to trick you and make you defend him concerning this.

He has no reasonable defense to give.

Here below is an screenshot of the post where Budaatum advertised the benefits of joining Amorc, attaching contact details for whom to contact in Nigeria and with a link to download their Introductory material for potential new members.

And you call this what?

Sharing educational materials. Abeg

@FxMasterz ,I have been engaged with other things hence the reason I couldn't reply immediately to Budaatum latest attempt to create confusion. Look at the image below and ask Lordreed how is it equivalent to sharing educational materials about AMORC.


Use the link below to visit the thread where it was taken from .The title of the thread alone is enough for anyone who knows about the Order to know it was created by an initiate of the group. I just dey laugh.

https://www.nairaland.com/302215/manifesto-positio-fraternitatis-rosae-crucis#4289185

HeatSeeker:

Do you need a bucket to cry into since your feelings are hurt?

HeatSeeker:
Budatum is walking away from this thread smelling like roses. Do you know why?! Check yourself very well and understand the true depth of your failure.

I am not responsible for your feelings and you are entitled to your personal opinion.

HeatSeeker:
Something scandalously entertaining. Something controversial. Something thought provoking. Something that will shake the very foundation of the whole Nairaland!

The Op over promised and severely under delivered with this thread of his.

Your comment is a revealing indictment to why serious issues often get ignored in favor of mere spectacle.

At no point did I promise you, or anyone, a scandalous circus. The title of this thread is "An appeal to investigate hidden evidence and harassment." Its purpose was clearly stated: to present documented facts to end a campaign of harassment and intellectual dishonesty.

You were expecting to be "entertained" by a personal drama. I was presenting a factual case, with evidence, to establish the truth. The fact that you find a meticulous presentation of evidence "disappointing" says more about your expectations than the content of this thread.

This was never designed for your amusement. It was a methodical effort to uncover the truth and hold someone accountable for their actions. If you cannot discern between a serious appeal for justice and cheap entertainment, that is a personal failure of perception, not a failure of this thread.

The "foundation of Nairaland" is built on the free exchange of ideas, which includes the right to seriously address misconduct without having to package it as a reality show. I have delivered exactly what I promised: a clear, evidence-based account. Your disappointment is irrelevant to that fact.

FxMasterz:
Can you answer my question?

There are many presidential candidates in Nigeria. If I promote Tinubu or anything that has to do with him, whom do you think I believe in among the available candidates?

@FxMasterz, your analogy is perfect. If you consistently promote Tinubu's manifesto, defend his policies from critics, and share links for people to join his campaign, no rational person would believe you are neutral.

Buda is doing the equivalent for Amorc on Nairaland. He promoted their materials, defended their core doctrinal text which contains their spiritual beliefs, and provided recruitment links. The logical conclusion is the same in both cases. He is an advocate, not a neutral observer

His continued evasion of this simple, logical
point only proves he has no honest answer to give you.

He wants to waste your time.

budaatum:
So. "promoted Amorc materials", makes you believe buda "belongs to the cult".

This must be how some peoples' minds must work I guess, as Triple's too works, but forgive me for not bothering to clear the air about your belief, since its your belief, which you are very free and entitled to believe if you wish.

Your attempt to reduce this to a simple "promotion" equals " membership is another deliberate evasion, Buda'. The evidence which you continue to ignore,is a pattern of behaviour that is irreconcilable with with a genuine atheist stance.

Moreover, you didn't just "share materials". You made a post in a thread you created that made use of the first person personal pronoun, "we", not third person, They ", and advertised the benefits of joining. At the end of the post you provided links for whom to contact in Nigeria and their Introductory materials for download This is advocacy,not neutral sharing . I have explained this over and over again but you continue to deflect away from it.

Furthermore, you also have a history of vehemently defending Amorc's doctrines from criticism,, an action that makes no sense for an atheist,who should, by definition, reject its unscientific and spiritual claims

A consistent atheist worldview rejects not just a deity, but the entire supernatural framework, including the " mental alchemy" , "cosmic consciousness" and invisible brotherhood that Amorc teaches. Your selective " God-only", atheism is an obvious loophole to hide this contradictions.

Instead of addressing the substantial evidence, you continue to resort to condescension and ad hominem attacks. This is tactic of someone who has been defeated on the facts and is now clutching at straws.

Finally,your inability to engage with the actual argument is more revealing than any "evidence" you demand from others

No matter what you say,you are not an atheist. Full stop. Just be yourself. That's all.

DeepSight:
+
Ah well, if I was not mentioned, I would not even follow the discussion (which I have mostly skipped).

If I were you, I would ignore the conversation entirely.

If I I were triplechoice, I would not bother bringing it up.

End of.

Thanks for your fair and balanced assesment @Deepsight. I sincerely appreciate that you've approached this without taking sides

You're correct that ignoring the conversation would have been the simpler path. And under normal circumstances, that is exactly what I would have done. However, there is a reason I chose to reply this time

I've always valued clarity and intellectual honesty in discourse. I read English and so you can understand where I am coming from ..

I have been on this forum for long but never participated in any discussion,but just reading comments until 2018 when I was drawn to the writings of members like Sarassin,loj and yourself because of the respect and simplicity in your style. There was no pretense, no obfuscation, just straightforward, honest discussion. In a faceless forum where people can be anyone. The way a person writes reveals their true character.

This is why I finally decided not to ignore Buda' when he resurrected this issue after two years when we have both had several amicable discussions on other topics without quarreling

I believe he was counting on me to ignore him so he could continue to rewrite history unchallenged. You asked why I didn't just ignore him, It's a fair question. But why blame the person who screams when burned by a fire, and not the one who lit the match?

My goal was to end this cycle permanently. By confronting him directly and boxing him into a corner. I forced him to admit the very facts he had suppressed for over two years, the existence of the thread, its movement from its original location, and his role in promoting Amorc. I needed to defeat him in his own territory so he would have no grounds to revive this issue in the future

Yes, you're correct that this has been an unpleasant distraction. But sometimes to ensure a nuisance does not return, you must address it decisively. I believe I have done that now, and consider the matter closed. Everything that has happened after I chose to end the issue is the consequences of his foolish decision to revisit an issue he should forget.

Thank you again for your thoughtful perspective .

Meedon:
This una big big English the confuse me ooo which one cause and uncaused again

Ask @Deepsight to break it down for you