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Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 1:53pm On Nov 23, 2014

Gombs:
Well, let God determine that. Until he comes, I wikl keep tithing, be very much assured I do these with the right motive and a pure heart, not grudgingly and debates.

So you have chosen on your own to use the tithing example that was before the Mosaic law to be your standard for your doing it today. [ Please give yourself a pat on the back for this ingenuity ].

You can be sincerely mistaken. Unless you do things God's way you wouldn't get his approval. You may think you are doing it from a pure heart but as long as it is not in line with God's way it will still get his disapproval.

When you use a verse that has no jurisdiction over tithing to defend it what right motive or a pure heart is in that?

Remember Uzzah? Did he have the right motive and a pure heart? What was the result?

God honors his word not sincere motive or anything else.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 7:48am On Nov 23, 2014

Gombs:
Yeah

No wonder you guys arrive at the conclusions you get to.

You take a passage about Abraham's unwavering trust in God, make your own meaning out of it, stamp that meaning into your tithing position and then run along 'exciting' yourselves that you are doing right.

If you tithe because you want to assuage your conscience, or satisfy your church or present a scorecard before others then you may succeed in meeting those goals. But only a right motive will please God. Anything, including TITHING not done in line with God's way becomes wood, hay and chaff before Him.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 10:31pm On Nov 22, 2014

Gombs:
When I give or tithe I stagger not at the promise of God through unbelief; but I'd be strong in faith, giving glory to God;

No wonder!

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 9:47pm On Nov 22, 2014

Gombs:
[KJV] Romans 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;:

Simple

Gombs,
How does this passage relate to giving or tithing?

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 6:42pm On Nov 22, 2014

Gombs:
I don't know how else.

What does giving in faith, Abraham's faith mean?

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 5:23pm On Nov 22, 2014

Gombs:
I give my givings in faith, Abraham’s faith.... I give with love in my heart

Can you please clarify the above.

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Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 3:11pm On Nov 22, 2014

Gombs:
Yes!
I give by faith however. Love propels me

I hope you know that the word 'however' carries a lot of weight.

What do you mean by that you "give by faith however"?

What do you mean by "Love propels me"?

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Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 11:46am On Nov 22, 2014

Gombs:
Good..But I have decided so, so has million others, why do some guys still hunt me for it?

How did you decide; because you're trying to avoid a negative consequence of not giving or to make God feel obliged to give you some positive things?

Your true motive for deciding is what will determine if it falls in line with scriptural prescription or outside God's approved way of approaching it.

Let me ask you this: Does your basis of decision fall in line with 2 Corinthians 9:7?

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 9:35am On Nov 22, 2014

Gombs:
Exactly, it isn't a must. A quick quiz....should a Christian be forced to stop tithing? If yes, why?

Not if he has "decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.". 2 Corinthians 9:7

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 8:39am On Nov 22, 2014

Bidam:
The problem with some folks here is the effort to either side or to force each person's own belief upon others. This is unchristian.

The real problem is that (and it has been shown even on this thread; examples were sighted) Christians are being 'forced' to COMPULSORILY do those things you have listed as NOT being compulsory. That is the tragedy.

It is not the issue of forcing one's belief on another. It is that of simply getting what the scripture says should obtain.

In this case: should the Christian give? Yes. "Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.".
2 Corrithians 9:7
Must the Christian tithe? No.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 8:18am On Nov 22, 2014

Gombs:
Great bro... it's something else. I just knew the job to do is even greater. No more dragging irrelevancies here. I'd start an online outreach to the middle east. Alot of grounds to cover bro. For those here who knew how the church should be, I pray they translate it into the physical. How can [size=14pt]God tell them how his church should be[/size], and all they do is type all day, criticizing? It's certain, THEY ARE NOT OF GOD. simple.

I'm off for the morning session. Cheers

Where do you get how God does this?
If it is not from the Word but from man-made rules then maybe it is you who is NOT OF GOD.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 8:05am On Nov 22, 2014

[size=5.8pt]

Bidam:
Good back to the tithe issue. Remember instead of drawing me to arguments on the LAW that tithing and any other type of giving (freewill, donations, alms, contributions, etc) are not the basis of our salvation or justification in Christ.

The very fact that Paul drew from passages of the OT Law on tithing in order to teach on support and sustenance for preachers of the Gospel in 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 is as a good argument as any to say God want it done his way not trustman's way. The Levitical system of tithing was used to as a principle to encourage giving". If the citation of 1 Corinthians 9:13 does not answer your request, please tell me what system other than the Levitical system Paul was referring to in that verse.

[/size]

If like you said " The Levitical system of tithing was used to as a principle to encourage giving" then the underlying thing we should derive from it is NOT that we should do EXACTLY what the Levitical system said to do BUT that GIVING (as a PRINCIPLE DERIVED from it) should be encouraged.
Do you agree with this?

It will then be right to say Christians should GIVE whatever they choose to give in line with 2 Corinthians 9:7
"Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.".

On the other hand it will be WRONG to ask, coerce, pressure, cajole or threaten a Christian to give or be constantly giving a fixed percent of his income. This will go against 2 Corinthians 9:7.

The principle is giving. The principle is not in giving a mandatory percentage. There lies the issue. And there is a big difference between the two.

The liberty the Christian has in Christ negates the issue of 'forced' tithing. Any teaching asking, cajoling, coercing, pressuring, or threatening the Christian to tithe is therefore deception and outright evil.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 1:28am On Nov 22, 2014

Bidam:
Save it! I will debate with those who have some common sense, and will answer my questions, but not with you any more.

Do you really believe you have demonstrated common sense in these discuss?

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 1:25am On Nov 22, 2014

Bidam:
How? You admitted he went wide off tangent quoting irrelevancies that doesn't address my replies to vooks? I'm used to your lame excuses, so what's new?

God has a right way he wants things to be done.
If you do not follow that his way, no matter how sincere you are, what you do will end up getting his disapproval rather than his OK.
Remember Uzzah in 2 Samuel 6?

So, if you tithe, you must do it as God says it should be done otherwise it ends up becoming zero before him.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 12:13am On Nov 22, 2014

Gombs:
I'd take it as you have an answer. Thank you.

Do i take it that you are afraid to have a go at it?

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 11:36pm On Nov 21, 2014

Gombs:
Thanks for your pity, you should save it for yourself on your long lost integrity and honesty.

Meanwhile, here's a chance to redemption: Can you quote a clear scripture where Moses lay a curse on non tithers?

So, coming back to tithing and the New Covenant believer; if he claims he is tithing according to its mention in the OT, the question then is what is the OT prescription for tithing and is the NT believer following it as stipulated there? If so how? If not exactly so, why?

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 10:51pm On Nov 21, 2014

Gombs:
Great evening I had...evening to you all. Bidam...great job

If what he's doing is a great job then you are all to be very pitied.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 10:29pm On Nov 21, 2014

Bidam:
Why do you call it the mosaic law?
Not interested in running round in circles here. This was my question earlier which you couldn't answer: Can you quote a clear scripture where Moses lay a curse on non tithers?

But this happens to be one of your specialties.
Are you sure you''re speaking the truth here?
Even in this thread you haven't done otherwise.
Right in your post above you are doing the same.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by trustman: 8:14am On Nov 21, 2014

Bidam:
No, you don't get it. I am just bored and tired of disgruntled and frustrated folks who opened tithes threads and take it out on tithers. This thread wasn't opened yesterday, the question is why the fixation on only tithes? why not go and sort it out with God himself. I wouldn't have bothered commenting here if my monikker wasn't mentioned on countless occasion with attacks and bile on my person. Atleast the bible admonish us to be ready to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, and you can see who is asking questions in an arrogant and rudeless manner as if i am accountable to him because i give tithes. Coming from a muslim background is not the issue here, i stated it to defend my stance on the fact that i have not seen any pastor rain curses on those who don't tithe.

What i have gleaned on this forum since i came in is that tithing maybe a preeminent doctrine in some of these folks churches hence their bitterness and frustration. Maybe due to the way pastors in their churches demand tithes which i perceive is more out of a desire for, or a perceive right to income rather than a welfare of the church.

In their churches, pastors use manipulation and fear to motivate them to give and the misapplication of this teaching has in many cases divided the people of God and so in this case everyone is seeking his own good rather than the Body. I will advise you to prayerfully study scripture and see why God acknowledge some givings and reject some like that of cain and abel. Truth is one. God isn't interested in sacrifice of fools but the motive and the heart of the giver. Tithing is about worship to God whether it is 1%,10%,22% . Prayer is not compulsory,fasting is not compulsory,studying your bible is not compulsory, Going to church is not compulsory, no one is advocating you are going to hell when you do not put into practice these things. Bless you.

Bidam has now suddenly turned into not only now a mind reader but also a seer. He knows what is happening in the minds of other discussants as well as their churches.

Unfortunately unlike he thinks those of us who are not for the 'forced' tithing are not taking it out on tithers. We are only letting them see the folly of their position.

To sort it out with God like Bidam advised is to ask:
'What does God's word say about it?', 'How does God's word say it should be done or practiced?'
'Am I following the way God's word says I should do it, if it is meant for me?'
Anything else is man-devised system that may be operating outside God's prescribed way.

None of us on this side is bitter and frustrated like Bidam wants very much to assume. We are standing firm in the liberty we have in Christ.

Anything, including GIVING, not done in line with God's way becomes wood, hay and chaff before Him. Recall the Pharisees who gave and prayed (legitimate things) but did them for the wrong reasons: Jesus said they already had their rewards - they wanted the praise of men and got it.

If you tithe because you want to assuage your conscience, or satisfy your church or present a scorecard before others then you may succeed in meeting those goals. But only a right motive will please God.

4 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 10:56pm On Nov 20, 2014

Gombs:
Heheheheheh, bobo... I see how far your church has gone, and the impact they make. Yeah, nareow is the way, and only a few find it... noted buddy.

Sir, God knows why tithing is instituted today, and it is so that He'd have meat in His house... if He was against it, are you saying he turned a blind eye to it all these years? He must be waiting for the last day to arrest those Pastors who allowed it in their churches. #Classic

How can you explain how a Nation like the BLW is richer than alot of countries, and they don’t ask any church or foundation for funds, and they go around the world whenever they like, however they like, spreading the gospel of Christ? Monies bro...Prayer is the bedrock...the vehicle is the monies...lots of it. For example, now, there are 1,162 CE churches in India. Aside prayers, we sent tons of Bibles there, tons of ROR, tons of tracts all in different formats. There are 2 Ce Churches in Japan, there is the underground Ce Church in China, and I think 16 in South Korea.

How on earth did you think these happened? Yeah baby! Tithing, Partnership...God opened those windows of heaven, and He sure poured out those blessings.

They just sang the BLW anthem, and boy, I scremed my lungs out with "Believers Love World, building a happier world with love"

Bobo, if you no wan tithe, leave those who want to, whether you like it or not, tithing will NEVER stop. You cannot block the sun with a finger. I'm out.

Partners' conference just entered a higher tempo. Pastor Chris don show stage...bye!

Bonus: Rhapsody of Realities is in 550 languages now, the only book with the most translation in the world second only to the Bible, the world's most read book, second only to the bible, and 105million copies were distributed this year

Abeg, clap for the Holy Spirit, it was not by power or might... yes, I glory in it... in WinsomeX's words "vain glory"

Gombs,
I hope you are not losing it.

Notice I did not say the Mosaic law did not have in it practices that may have been before it. When the Mosaic law came it became the yardstick for the spiritual life of those under it. To that extent it superseded what was before it. Those under it did not need to RESORT to going back to pre-law institutions to live their spiritual lives.

So the NT believer today needs to understand what the New Covenant is all about so as to know what is required of him or not.

So, coming back to tithing and the New Covenant believer; if he claims he is tithing according to its mention in the OT, the question then is what is the OT prescription for tithing and is the NT believer following it as stipulated there? If so how? If not exactly so, why?

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by trustman: 6:53pm On Nov 20, 2014

Bidam:
Yawn. Like i said since you are deaf, we don't invoke curses on antitithers and non tithers, we use Malachi to teach tithing not that i have heard it in my church anyway. Givings is the least things we teach in church. There are other weightier matters we teach.

What exactly are you saying here?
Your church uses Malachi to teach tithing?
But you've never heard it (tithing teaching)in your church?

4 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 6:44pm On Nov 20, 2014

mbaemeka:

Shay that verse called it Tithes? Then it doesn't matter if it is first or 3rd year. There are blessings attached to tithing. That point is settled. And the offerings there referred to offerings. The offerings needed for meat to be in God's house. So that offering could very well be money in today's Parlance and that kind of offering isn't near being done away with.

Cheers.

Hope you're not suggesting that the Christian today can [b]CHOOSE how he wants to go about tithing and expect that God is somehow obliged to accept it even if it does not follow God's prescribed way.
The story of Ananias and Sapphira you pointed to some time back should clearly show that the Christian must approach God under His (God's) terms and not as the Christian pleases.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 6:26pm On Nov 20, 2014

Gombs:
Funny.

Huh?
Capital punishment, like tithing, originated long before the Law, but the Law systematized its practice (Gen 9:6). Why wasn't it superseded. Or, are you saying capital punishment is not for Christians too? Why do you and WinsomeX make stamping statements without proper studying?

Paul did appeal to the Law of Moses for principles of financial giving, which shows the remaining validity of the principles pertaining to giving (I Cor 9:8-9; II Cor 9:9; I Tim 5:18). Or are you saying Paul was mistaken to borrow Moses' law?

You guys keep saying "But the New Testament does not require a tithe" "grace did this and that, the whole of the law was abolished" etc... yet, the New Testament does not mention corporal punishment, yet, you ok it today, yet you use the O.T. principle to train your children (Pr 13:24; 19:18; 22:15; 23:13-14; 29:15). The NT does not mention saving money, but you do so from Solomon (Pr 6:8; 30:25). It does not mention many godly rules or principles, which were conspicuously lifted from the O.T, yet you are here saying the NT supersedes anything before it. Please study na!

See who said the NT supersedes the OT, yet a prominent NT fellow used a good chunk of it in teaching and doctrines, or are you more smarter or your Holy Spirit is the genuine type?

Oh dear Lord Jesus!

Notice I did not say the Mosaic law did not have in it practices that may have been before it. When the Mosaic law came it became the yardstick for the spiritual life of those under it. To that extent it superseded what was before it. Those under it did not need to RESORT to going back to pre-law institutions to live their spiritual lives.

So the NT believer today needs to understand what the New Covenant is all about so as to know what is required of him or not.

So, coming back to tithing and the New Covenant believer; if he claims he is tithing according to its mention in the OT, the question then is what is the OT prescription for tithing and is the NT believer following it as stipulated there? If so how? If not exactly so, why?

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 2:49pm On Nov 20, 2014

Image123:
Antitithers think tithe is very significant.

Really? I wonder how.

If the Christian was required or mandated to tithe the NT epistles would have strongly talked about it. Does that make it clearer for you?

Any attempt at using any portion of the OT to justify Christian tithing today is just an effort at futility.

When the Mosaic law came it superseded anything before it. For those under the law to know if whatever they did pre-law was still required of them they had to look at the provisions of the law. They could not justify themselves by any other 'PERMUTATIONS'.

In the same way The New Covenant supersedes anything before it. So the NT believer today needs to understand what the New Covenant is all about so as to know what is required of him or not. Any attempt at using any 'permutation' to justify what the New Covenant does not stand for does not justify any derived results.

So because Paul used a portion of the OT to drive home a point does not give you the liberty to do so unless you know Paul's basis for doing so? You need to know how Paul applied the OT before you can do same in a sane way.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by trustman: 9:35am On Nov 20, 2014

Bidam:
A modern day pharisee with unreasonable questions set to trap me. Is Malachi not a scripture?

What trap?
A simple question is asked and you are going round in circles.

Is Leviticus 3 not scripture?
Do you Bidam follow it today?

So does your church teach tithing using Malachi?

8 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by trustman: 8:55am On Nov 20, 2014

Bidam:
My thoughts on Mlachi is on this thread if you care to read them.

Look at the question you were asked:

vooks:
And in teaching tithing in your church Malachi is never used?

Then look at your answer.
What do you make of that?

I say again that we may have to conclude that Mark, pastorkun and others have rightly labelled you.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 8:47am On Nov 20, 2014

Bidam:
Nope, am still in sync with your Malachi myth.
Who is jumping from issue to issue, is your brain dead slow?
What is the penalty if a christian disobeys such a directive?
Yes i have and it doesn't help your case nor answer my questions.

See 1 Thessalonians 4: 1-8. Maybe this will help your case whatever it happens to be.
Or are you trying to draw people into your preconceived position?

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 7:27am On Nov 20, 2014

Bidam:
So what are the consequences of sexual immorality to the christian who is free from the law ? I don't even see any penalty to those who do not tithe in the mosaic law. The prophecy came when Israel was unfaithful long after the Law was given.

Is your hopping from one thing to another this morning for real or you just feel like posting things?

You wouldn't even focus on getting an issue clear before jumping on to another.

When the Christian is told to 'flee' something does that suggest to you that it is right? If the Christian disobeys such a directive do you suppose there will be penalty?

Have you never read Deuteronomy 30? Maybe you should go and read it.

3 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by trustman: 7:00am On Nov 20, 2014

Bidam:
The gospel truth is i have not SEEN any so far. You folks can go chase the wind or shadow for all i care.

In that case, we may have to conclude that Mark, pastorkun and others have rightly labelled you.

4 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 6:54am On Nov 20, 2014

Bidam:
Romans 2:14 says that Gentiles who do not have the Law can do by nature the things contained in the Law; and Romans 3:29 affirms that God is also the God of the Gentiles and not only of the Jews.

Why do many of you ignore Acts 15 when it comes to the Christian and the Mosaic law?
Was this not the issue there?

Is the NT not clear enough about sexual immorality?

Any significant thing required of the Christian will be found in the New Testament epistles which constitute the blueprint for living the Christian life.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 9:46pm On Nov 19, 2014

Image123:
He he he he, see live delusion. I parseive Nigeria' football score is taking its toll on you. Enjoy

You never seem to face issues in a straightforward way.
You prefer banters to clear-cut presentation.
I want to believe your partner rhyme john did more work
on that tithe discussion thread than you.

Here, instead of focusing on Malachi you now want to
divert attention away to some other thing.

You're so ... ... ... SMH

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 7:40am On Nov 19, 2014

Gombs:
Heheheheheh

You aren't ashamed of yourself? You want me to show you how you manipulated my post? Are you blind, bro? I do not need excuses if I don't want to discuss, if I don't want to, I say it plainly.

About tithing, You don't want to give to the work of ministry and support of ministers, you are robbing God.............like it or not, you are a robber!

A Crooked one

You and your band are yet to provide one verse in the Bible that condemned tithing, until you do, I don't expect myself to discuss tithing further.

If you have nothing to say on your allegation then forever hold your peace.

At least you've come out plainly on the side of your 'heroes' on the Malachi curse issue.

I hope you don't end your compliance only at Malachi 3. Notice what Malachi 4:4 said: ""Remember the law of my servant Moses, the statutes and rules that I commanded him at Horeb for all Israel." I hope you follow all that Moses stipulated as to HOW to tithe and the other regulations. If not, you walk in disobedience to this verse and may actually be the robber who robs God of ALL that He expects you to give to Him.
As for me, I hide myself in Christ cheesy

BTW, you may not find one verse that DIRECTLY condemned most of what Moses gave; if you are looking for such a verse to justify anything. BUT do you do all that Moses stipulated, apart from the things that you guys have interpreted to be giving of money? Do you? Can you give an honest answer to this?

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